Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.1.8 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #17 Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 03:01:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #17 1. Re: Setting up Vector works drawings by usctd [at] columbia.sc 2. Re: Circus performer dies in fall by IAEG [at] aol.com 3. Re: Setting up Vector works drawings by "C. Andrew Dunning" 4. Re: Shopping at Home Depot (Was Wal-Mart) by "Paul Schreiner" 5. Donations from the giants of retail by David Carrico 6. Re: Shopping at Home Depot (Was Wal-Mart) by "Hofmann, Christopher" 7. Re: Wal-Mart by "Michael Finney" 8. Re: Donations from the giants of retail by "Hofmann, Christopher" 9. Re: Shopping at Home Depot (Was Wal-Mart) by Bruce Purdy 10. Re: Shopping at Home Depot (Was Wal-Mart) by "Paul Schreiner" 11. Re: Circus performer dies in fall by Eddie Kramer 12. Re: Circus performer dies in fall by IAEG [at] aol.com 13. Re: Setting up Vector works drawings by "Kacey Fisher" 14. Re: Circus performer dies in fall by Eddie Kramer 15. Re: Shopping at Home Depot (Was Wal-Mart) My 2 cents by ken [at] kenholyoak.com (Ken Holyoak) 16. Re: was wal-mart..yadda..yadda by 17. Re: Setting up Vector works drawings by " joe" 18. Wireless Intercoms by "Brian Desmond" 19. Re: Circus performer dies in fall by "Delbert Hall" 20. Re: Wireless Intercoms by Dwayne Reid 21. Re: Wireless Intercoms by 22. Tent rigging? by "Josh Foreman" 23. Re: Wireless Intercoms by "Brian Desmond" 24. Re: Wireless Intercoms by "Andy Leviss" 25. Re: Wireless Intercoms by "Brian Desmond" 26. Re: Wireless Intercoms by "Andy Leviss" 27. Re: Wireless Intercoms by "Andy Leviss" 28. Re: Wireless Intercoms by Michael Feinberg *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <1169.207.201.197.74.1085402469.squirrel [at] webmail.columbia.sc> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Setting up Vector works drawings From: usctd [at] columbia.sc > I've seen a bunch of VW user work the way that you do - major divisions on > layers and more specific in classes. I've chosen not to work that way > because it makes 3D work more difficult and 99.9% of my work is either > hybrid or 3D. Why does it make 3D more complicated? Thanks for the help everybody, I am a little less confused now....I think. -- Eric Rouse TD-University of SC, Columbia Freelance Foyboy > For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending > your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: > http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ > --------------------------------------------------- > > > Kacey - > >>I think you may have meant VW LAYERS = separate sheets of paper w. >>(potentially) different scales?? > > You are correct. Too bad Outlook doesn't have a "dummy" check along w. > its > spell-check. > > I've seen a bunch of VW user work the way that you do - major divisions on > layers and more specific in classes. I've chosen not to work that way > because it makes 3D work more difficult and 99.9% of my work is either > hybrid or 3D. > > Regards - > > C. Andrew Dunning > Landru Design > - > Nashville, TN > - > cad [at] landrudesign.com > www.landrudesign.com > > > ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1f0.216557a0.2de343e4 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:26:12 EDT Subject: Re: Circus performer dies in fall In a message dated 5/23/04 7:38:03 PM, halld [at] etsu.edu writes: << A Ringling Bros. tissue performer fell to her death Saturday in St. Paul. Here is what CNN had on their web site: http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Midwest/05/23/circus.accident/index.html For those of you who are not familiar with circus acts, all tissue performers that I know supply their own apparatus, and most rig it themselves. Hall Associates, Inc. does this type of rigging for some performers (in fact we rigged a tissue act on May 1 in Atlanta), so we are very interested in finding out what when wrong on Saturday. From what was in the CNN report, it seems that it may have been an problem, but the article does not give enough details to really say for certain. Keith may be able to learn more and fill us in. -Delbert >> Unfortunately, , Dessi Espana and her husband Ivan ( as well as the rest of the Espana Family ) are good friends of mine. I've done a number for productions with this great group of people and was in shock yesterday when I learned of what happened. I have spoken with a couple of people closer to the situation than I and there seems to still be a lot of confusion as to what exactly happened ( including the fabric actually ripping apart ) As you may know suppliers like Barry Cordage in Montreal can provide fabric that is tested and load rated, I have no knowledge of what fabric they were using. Ivan and his brother Noe are first class riggers in their own right. Both of their wifes do aerial acts ( although Dessi was perhaps best known for her hula hoop act ) Noe Espana's wife is the sister of famed Ringling Bros Clown David Larible and does a beautiful Washington Trapese act. ( Washington Trapeze is a solo trapeze that is connected both to a winch AND a rotation device ) . Ivan and Noe would go to NYC frequently to set up the aerial rigging for a modern dance company that does "aerial dance" work in Grand Central Station. They never took un neccesary chances, always had first rate equipment that was up to or far exceeding spec. The entire Espana extended family has always been in my estimation the nicest, most professional, most SINCERLY concerned for safey of any "traditional" circus family I have worked with. I've had dinner in Ivan and Dessi's motor coach, and played with their adorable kids. It's a terrible loss, and comes to a family that I would never have expected it from. If and when I learn more about the particulars you can be assured that I will pass them on. It's a cliche' but it shows that you can NEVER be too safe, and it makes me thank Delbert again , ,and his trusty associates Tracy Nunnally and Bill Auld for the "care and feeding" you have given on our events. Especially this recent one in Atlanta where we lowered in the silk artists from a 40' high catwalk. All in all its a very sobering event, I will probably be attending the funeral in Sarasota in the coming week. If I learn more about the particulars of the event I will let everyone know. Likewise those of you in the Minnesota area or with other contacts on the Ringling Home Town unit if you hear more info please pass it on. very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ From: "C. Andrew Dunning" Subject: Re: Setting up Vector works drawings Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:06:42 -0500 Organization: Landru Design In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Eric - >Why does it make 3D more complicated? 2 reasons: 1) VW will not render light sources cross-layer. For example, if you wish to project and render gobos, you will have to have light sources on your "scenic layer(s)." If the sources/projectors are attached to fixture symbols, you'll end up duplicating those symbols from the "lighting" layer. If you choose to instead have scenic elements on the "lighting" layer, that too will end up in geometry being duplicated. Just multiply things out if you also want to see your venue rendered (on potentially another layer). 2) Each time you want to change views (viewing angle), you'll have to do so FOR EACH LAYER. Make sense? C. Andrew Dunning Landru Design - Nashville, TN - cad [at] landrudesign.com www.landrudesign.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200405241411.i4OEBNWK029256 [at] tshield.longwood.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: Shopping at Home Depot (Was Wal-Mart) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:11:16 -0400 In-Reply-To: > Let's talk a bout a few other "national" companies, that many > of us frequent, which have stores in most cities: Sears, > Granger, and Ace Hardware, to name just three. Am I wrong, or is Ace just a franchise label where the stores are actually locally-owned stores? I could very well be mistaken here... > Do these big companies drive out some local > stores? Sure they do, so why are they not being condemned > the same way as Wal-Mart? From what I have seen, these > companies give back far less to their communities than > Wal-Mart. Shouldn't these companies be held to the same > standard that you want from Wal-Mart? Part of the bias is in Wal-Mart's Borg-ness. Part of it is in the WM real estate practices (build a store, stay five years, build another bigger store, leave the first without a tenant). Part of it is in the disparity between WM's self-professed family-friendly image versus certain behind-the-scenes realities (imported products from sweatshop countries, and the fact that most employees are part-time workers who don't have health insurance and don't make enough money for a living wage). Grainger doesn't try to be all things to all people, nor do they have the capacity to influence the public's images, taste, habits, and listening/viewing media like WM does. Neither does Sears. Those companies, AFAIK, also have no history of heavy-handed anti-union tactics, and they deliver quality goods. So I guess another part of it is the "quality vs. lowest-common-denominator" factor... But I think the biggest thing, at least for me, is the sense about WM where not only does the company seem to believe they can be all things to all people, but that it'll be good for us too without exception. I think, instead of using the Borg analogy (cuz this attitude in all fairness extends way beyond WM and has pervaded our culture just a bit too much for my comfort), I'd actually start comparing it to It. No, not the Stephen King It, but the Madeleine L'Engle It from "A Wrinkle In Time"... > I am not saying the Wal-Mart is perfect, just that they are > not as black as some people would like to paint them. Nothing and nobody ever is... Paul Schreiner Technical Director, Longwood University Theatre 434.395.2250 ICQ# 2269284 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20040524152820.53119.qmail [at] web14612.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 08:28:20 -0700 (PDT) From: David Carrico Subject: Donations from the giants of retail In-Reply-To: Just read Brian's post about a big donation he requested from his local home depot and was wondering about the particulars of the donation, lumber, paint, other materials? And how did he go about getting it? Did he contact the local store? Just ask? Are there others who have made acquistions in this manner? From other retailer? Overstocks from local contractors? Dave Carrico __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Domains – Claim yours for only $14.70/year http://smallbusiness.promotions.yahoo.com/offer ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Shopping at Home Depot (Was Wal-Mart) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:58:44 -0400 Message-ID: <56439B09A4ADDC46876BDFF2BBD35DF001C173C9 [at] ex1.capecod.edu> From: "Hofmann, Christopher" Paul Schreiner wrote: > Part of it is in the WM real estate practices (build a store, stay five years, build another bigger store, leave the first without a tenant). I'm by no means a fan of Wal-Mart but I heard on NPR this morning that they have an entire staff of real estate professionals whose job it is to fill the empty stores. Makes sense if you think about their concern with image (i.e. the comment quoted above.) ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Wal-Mart Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:06:13 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Michael Finney" On 21 May 2004 Bruce Purdy Replied to: > Hmmm.... Maybe... Still, I would still prefer, AS A TAXPAYER, to > reduce our welfare, etc, costs by hiring the marginally, or > marginallized, handicapped who, I presume, pay some taxes, even on a > Wal-Mart salary With: <> I swear to god, I was going to stay out of this entire thread, but with my only living cousin being severely retarded (and working with his local "Meals on Wheels" program, amazingly enough), one of my brothers-in-law in a chair and slightly impaired, and with several members of my family involved in different aspects of working with special needs (including me when I was younger), this is a seriously "hot button" topic for me. I won't comment specifically on Wal-Mart's hiring policies related to hiring handicapped or developmentally disabled workers other than to say that I think that it is one of the few socially responsible things that they do. (I do have some issues with their supervisory practices with these workers, but that varies so much from store to store that it's impossible to generalize). Sure a lot of employers who choose to employ handicapped or developmentally disabled workers do so because it saves them money and is good PR. So what? It involves the workers in their community, exposes more members of the community to these workers as individuals (or would you rather segregate them?), and gives the workers a sense of purpose and self-worth. Want to look it from the "maximizing taxpayer's value" point of view? OK - there are numerous studies showing that developmentally disabled workers who are actively involved in work related activities require significantly less supervision and maintenance in their living situation. If they're in a taxpayer supported (or supplemented) living environment, that translates to lower per-client costs - which is either a net savings to the overall taxpayer base or a good way for the funding to stretch just a little further. As far as Bruce's situation - good for the theatre for employing the cleaning crew. I'd like to see more theatres work with their local organizations to employ handicapped and developmentally disabled workers (even if it's just in support roles). As I've said earlier, it's good business for the theatre, good for their relationship with their community, and a socially responsible thing for them to do. And if anybody has an issue with the workers being funded by taxpayers (assuming they weren't partially funded from private organizations, which is a common practice), then they can feel free to give back any state or federal money that they're receiving. Or is taxpayer support only good when it's going to the theatre (in pitifully small amounts...which is another topic altogether)? OK - stepping off the soapbox now. Michael Finney Thinkwell Design & Production mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com http://www.thinkwelldesign.com ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Donations from the giants of retail Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:05:50 -0400 Message-ID: <56439B09A4ADDC46876BDFF2BBD35DF001C173CA [at] ex1.capecod.edu> From: "Hofmann, Christopher" David Carrico wrote: >Just read Brian's post about a big donation he >requested from his local home depot and was wondering >about the particulars of the donation, lumber, paint, >other materials? And how did he go about getting it?=20 >Did he contact the local store? Just ask? Brian is a little under the weather today, so I don't know if he'll get a chance to post a response. I can tell you that I thought he'd get a lot more "run around" than he did. I was sure he'd have to deal with some regional or national office. He did have to jump through a few hoops, including a written description (in the form of a letter to the manager) outlining how the donation would be used and why it was necessary. As well as a number of fruitless visits to the store to track down the elusive managerial staff. But in the end, he loaded up a cart with $200.00 worth of plywood and the manager rung him out as though he had a credit for the same. Anything to add Brian? Christopher Hofmann Technical Director =20 Tilden Arts Center Cape Cod Community College 2240 Iyanough Road West Barnstable, MA 02668 =20 Office 508.362.2131 x4356 Fax 508.375.4113 Box Office 508.375.4044 =20 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:10:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Shopping at Home Depot (Was Wal-Mart) From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > Let's talk a bout a few other "national" companies, that many of us > frequent, which have stores in most cities: Sears, Granger, and Ace > Hardware, to name just three. Because these companies purchase in large > quantities, just as Wal-Mart does, they have the ability to sell for > less than "mom and pop" stores. Do these big companies drive out some > local stores? Sure they do, so why are they not being condemned the > same way as Wal-Mart? Delbert, Let me say that I *Agree* with you. Lest you think that I'm one of those on a big-time campaign against Wal-Mart, let me assure you that I'm not. I do have issues with them, and with a lot of other Big Businesses, however - and since the topic came up I put my two cents in. I'd prefer to deal with a local "Mom & Pop" store, but they are getting harder to find. I'd prefer to buy my bread from a local baker in his own shop -but there aren't any around anymore. There are certainly advantages to national chains, and they have a place - but what concerns me is the scale. The big guys are getting bigger and bigger. Broadcasting, Newspapers, Big Box stores and food providers are being bought and sold and merged into fewer and fewer companies that are dominating the market. I can see analogies to fast growing weeds that are squeezing out everything else, or to a cancer that grows out of control displacing healthy tissue. Again, it's not specifically Wal-Mart that bothers me, but a dangerous societal trend. Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200405241614.i4OGEtHP014836 [at] tshield.longwood.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: Shopping at Home Depot (Was Wal-Mart) Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:14:48 -0400 In-Reply-To: > > Part of it is in the WM real > > estate practices (build a store, stay five years, build > > another bigger store, leave the first without a tenant). > > I'm by no means a fan of Wal-Mart but I heard on NPR this > morning that they have an entire staff of real estate > professionals whose job it is to fill the empty stores. Yes, but all the professionals in the world won't always help...let me give an example. WM opened here shortly before I was hired and moved to Farmville. They opened a "small" store, then built a SuperCenter down the road about a half-mile. They moved into the SC, and then another home and garden and farm supplier (Quality, IIRC) moved into the old store. Problem was, once people started hitting the SC en masse, and with the expansion of the home and garden inventory at WM out into the parking lot during the summer months, it drove Quality out of business within three years. Getting another tenant isn't going to do anything if there isn't the market to support both the new tenant and a company like WM with their fingers in practically everything... Paul Schreiner Technical Director, Longwood University Theatre 434.395.2250 ICQ# 2269284 ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:03:09 -0400 From: Eddie Kramer Subject: Re: Circus performer dies in fall On 5/24/04 IAEG [at] aol.com sent: >For those of you who are not familiar with circus acts, all tissue performers Sorry to hear about the accident, but what is a tissue performer (or act)? -- -------------------- Eddie Kramer IATSE #1 Member NEC Panel 15 ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <103.46894713.2de3a398 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:14:32 EDT Subject: Re: Circus performer dies in fall In a message dated 5/24/04 12:04:14 PM, ESKramer [at] IEEE.org writes: << Sorry to hear about the accident, but what is a tissue performer (or act)? >> it's a performance done while hanging on to a large piece of fabric, referred to as tissue or silk but in fact is a synthetic knit. Usually the fabric is doubled over by putting a hitch though a rescue 8 or similar. The total length of the fabric could be about 40', giving you two 20' "tails" so to speak. It can be done "static" meaning that the fabric once it is in place does not move or attached to a winch where the movement up and down is carefully choreographed. Usually done as a solo act, it can also be done as a duet. On rare occasions I have seen three or more people. There is a wonderful Male / Female Tissue duet ( with a winch ) in Cirque du Soleil's DRALION. Many people do a tissue act, and it is almost a " cliche' '" when you are talking about contemporary circus (or as many of you might say "a cirque show") not very many people do it really, really well. There are a lot of "pedestrian" grade performers out there. Dessi Espana was first class. very best, Keith Arsenault President IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ From: "Kacey Fisher" Subject: Re: Setting up Vector works drawings Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:37:57 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: C. Andrew Dunning wrote: > I've seen a bunch of VW user work the way that you do - major divisions on > layers and more specific in classes. I've chosen not to work that way > because it makes 3D work more difficult and 99.9% of my work is either > hybrid or 3D. > You are correct in that a lot of the 3D and gobo projectors etc as you posted in another post don't work or are a huge hassle when you set your drawing up the way I do. For that stuff I usually paste into another file all on one layer only because the files become so ridiculously large. Also, I work in 2d and "basic" 3d 99.9% of the time and only did visualization, gobo projector, rendering etc. when I was a QA Tester for VW. I've never had the time/opportunity to do it in real life. ~Kacey ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:02:24 -0400 From: Eddie Kramer Subject: Re: Circus performer dies in fall On 5/24/04 IAEG [at] aol.com sent: >it's a performance done while hanging on to a large piece of fabric, referred to as tissue or silk but in fact is a synthetic knit. Thank you, I had an mental image of rigging with Kleenex. This shows the problems of using jargon in technical communications. Eddie -- -------------------- Eddie Kramer IATSE #1 Member NEC Panel 15 ------------------------------ From: ken [at] kenholyoak.com (Ken Holyoak) Subject: Re: Shopping at Home Depot (Was Wal-Mart) My 2 cents Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:26:13 -0500 Message-ID: <001e01c441cd$5be51f20$0900a8c0 [at] COMPAQ> In-Reply-To: While I regret the demise of the small business and personalized service that they have provided in the past our economy has changed and we buy = more on price and availability and get our information from other sources = rather that the help we have found in most stores.=20 Sadly when I go into a store of any kind to get information I find that = most of the workers actually have knowledge of the location of the product = let alone knowing what it does or how it works. We all want everything, we = want it now and we certainly expect it to be in stock, and in many colors. The retail business today requires huge investments in facilities and inventory and it takes a big company to fulfill our needs.=20 These are facts of life today and we have no further to look than o9ur = own Broadway to see the Disney's and Clear Channel's of our industry doing = the same thing. =20 I have worked from time to time with the big box retailers and in most = of the cases they end up in long term leases and are paying rent on empty building long after the stores are closed and they have moved to = different locations.=20 One of the big contributors to the demise of Kmart was the fact that = they were still paying rent on all those empty Builders Square Stores.=20 Kenneth. H. Holyoak Information + Insight =3D Profit POB 68633 Indianapolis, IN 46268-0633 =20 ken [at] kenholyoak.com 317-253-7000 -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of = Hofmann, Christopher Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:59 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Shopping at Home Depot (Was Wal-Mart) For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- Paul Schreiner wrote: > Part of it is in the WM real estate practices (build a store, stay five years, build another bigger store, leave the first without a tenant). I'm by no means a fan of Wal-Mart but I heard on NPR this morning that they have an entire staff of real estate professionals whose job it is to fill the empty stores. Makes sense if you think about their concern with image (i.e. the comment quoted above.) ------------------------------ From: Subject: Re: was wal-mart..yadda..yadda Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:33:28 -0400 Message-Id: <20040524203328.ITYN1534.de-fe01.dejazzd.com [at] de-fe01> > One of the big contributors to the demise of Kmart was the fact that they > were still paying rent on all those empty Builders Square Stores. Our Builers Square sat empty across from Kmart for years until Kmart gave up the lease and within months Wal-Mart was renovating and was open within a year. When BS closed down close to 8 of 12 retail spaces sat empty and they are now almost all occupied since WM opened. Greg Bierly Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:06:39 -0400 Message-Id: <200405241706.AA2583036180 [at] paonline.com> From: " joe" Subject: Re: Setting up Vector works drawings A few years back, I spent a great deal of time (along with some other co-workers) trying to get into VectorWorks. Two of us were from an AutoCAD background, and the other a Mac-head who didn't have CAD experience. All of us failed miserably until one took a class in it. The manuals were just poorly done, and did things like referring to buttons or menu choices but not telling you how to find that button. However, the guy who took the class has stuck with it, and really enjoys it. The thing that threw us AutoCAD guys for a loop was the idea that 2-d and 3-D objects are both placed in modelspace. You always seemed to get stuck in a view where the 2-d objects are superimposed on top of a 3-d view in an odd messed-up way. Perhaps the "paperspace" concept in the new version has resolved that challenge. ------------------------------ Subject: Wireless Intercoms Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:55:08 -0500 Message-ID: <39870A65DDC5AF4F8FA39BD78F06BED1302861 [at] carbon.payton.cps.k12.il.us> From: "Brian Desmond" I'm in the market for a 6 - 8 headset wireless intercom system. = Retrofitting with a hardwire system is not an option. =A0We'd use them = mainly for video shoots, one for a floor director, plus our control room = crew. The space isn't very big, I don't know the measurements offhand, = though I can get them if necessary. A regular Motorola two way radio = works fine in there. =A0 The requirements I have, offhand are: * Push to talk or open mic * Program audio tie-in, but, push tot talk would mute the program audio = (this isn't a must have, it'd just be nice) * Being able to extend the antennas - our wireless mics have the = antennas embedded in the ceiling, I'd just assume do the same here * Rechargeable battery (I'd rather not be sticking 12 AA batteries in or = something goofy like that) * Expandability would be nice (e.g. we somehow outgrow six headsets, so = order another base unit or something) =A0 I've looked at clearcom, but, that's really the only name I know. I'm up = for other brands, just want something that works reliably. I have no = idea what one of these systems costs, ballpark figures are much = appreciated too! =A0 Thanks, Brian =A0 --Brian Desmond desmondb [at] payton.cps.k12.il.us Payton on the Web! Http://www.wpcp.org =A0 v: 773.534.0034 x135 f: 773.534.0035 =A0 =A0 =A0 ------------------------------ From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Circus performer dies in fall Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:11:26 -0400 Organization: ETSU Message-ID: <000c01c441dc$0f1261d0$6400a8c0 [at] delbert> In-Reply-To: Keith explained this pretty well, but let me fill in a few details. For the acts that I have rigged, the performer supplies the silk and a Figure 8 descender. The silk is tied to the large ring of the Figure 8 with a "cow hitch" (this is tied by the performer). I then attach the small ring of the Figure 8 to a swivel using a screw-pin shackle (pin is moused). The other end of the swivel is attached to a cable or to a rope (depending on how we plan to lift/descend the performer. It can be static, as Keith said, but I have never rigged a static silk. I have rigged static Spanish webs, which would be rigging similar to rigging a static silk. Because of the nature of the acts, silk, strap, Spanish web, and rigid trapeze acts can not use a safety harness. Nor do they use a safety net. The "silk" used for these acts are proof-load tested by the supplier and is carefully inspected by the performers prior to each performance. The silk performers that I know are all VERY safety conscience, and inspect everything, and ask lots of questions. All of the circus performers that I have worked with have been wonderful people, and real friendships have developed between the cast and the crew. They are just warm, funny, and caring people whom you feel are "family." I don't know what I would do if one of these performers was hurt on a job on which I was working. -Delbert -----Original Message----- it's a performance done while hanging on to a large piece of fabric, referred to as tissue or silk but in fact is a synthetic knit. Usually the fabric is doubled over by putting a hitch though a rescue 8 or similar. The total length of the fabric could be about 40', giving you two 20' "tails" so to speak. It can be done "static" meaning that the fabric once it is in place does not move or attached to a winch where the movement up and down is carefully choreographed. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20040524163805.03127ec0 [at] pop.telusplanet.net> Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:50:32 -0600 From: Dwayne Reid Subject: Re: Wireless Intercoms In-Reply-To: References: At 03:55 PM 5/24/2004, Brian Desmond wrote: >I'm in the market for a 6 - 8 headset wireless intercom system. >Retrofitting with a hardwire system is not an option. We'd use them >mainly for video shoots, one for a floor director, plus our control room >crew. The space isn't very big, I don't know the measurements offhand, >though I can get them if necessary. A regular Motorola two way radio works >fine in there. > >The requirements I have, offhand are: >* Push to talk or open mic >* Program audio tie-in, but, push tot talk would mute the program audio >(this isn't a must have, it'd just be nice) >* Being able to extend the antennas - our wireless mics have the antennas >embedded in the ceiling, I'd just assume do the same here >* Rechargeable battery (I'd rather not be sticking 12 AA batteries in or >something goofy like that) >* Expandability would be nice (e.g. we somehow outgrow six headsets, so >order another base unit or something) RTS BTR-800 immediately comes to mind: . You would need 2 base units (each handles 4 headsets) and up to 8 headsets. These are pricey but work fairly well out of the box. I've developed some mods for them that make them work extremely well but those most people don't need the mods. I've also worked a lot with the Telex BTR-500 & 600 systems - these are single headset systems that can be connected to make as large a system as you want. 4 of those cost more than the BTR-800 and do not have as many features. Another option is to do a hybrid system: use as few channels of actual wireless headset as you can get away with (only for those users who have to spend all their time talking) and couple that to a UHF full-duplex repeater system. This can lower costs dramatically but only one user on the repeater system can talk any any one time. However, this works great for cameramen, shaders, switchers, us audio guys, etc. The system I work with is fairly large: we regularly use about a dozen BTR500 headsets, 3 or 4 BTR-800 systems (up to 12 headsets), 3 or 4 UHF repeater channels with a couple of dozen Motorola portable radios with Beyer headsets - all on 16 to 20 channels of wired and wireless intercom. It really does work well! dwayne -- Dwayne Reid Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 20 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2004) .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .- `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address. This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ------------------------------ From: Subject: Re: Wireless Intercoms Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:56:23 -0400 Message-Id: <20040525015623.NSJY1534.de-fe01.dejazzd.com [at] de-fe01> > Another option is to do a hybrid system: use as few channels of actual > wireless headset as you can get away with (only for those users who have to > spend all their time talking) and couple that to a UHF full-duplex repeater > system. Another hybrid option that may not work in your situation is one that I saw a touring show use that works great for me. I tie the audio out of the headset system (wired Telex and wireless Clearcom) into a FM hearing assistance transmitter. Then supply all the crew with listen only earbuds leaving only a Stage Left and Right stage manager able to talk. I a high school setting it really cuts down the chatter and someone can report to a stage manager if a response is needed. An additional benifit I have is I have a frequency selectable ADA receiver that I can switch between the "Com" and "house" frequecy to check on both the crew and the mix. This worked in my situation since I had a spare transmitter with 50 (yes fifty) receivers laying around to hook up. Again this will only work for some applications and most likely not yours but is way cheaper that adding channels to the Wireless clearcom. Greg Bierly Hempfield HS ------------------------------ From: "Josh Foreman" Subject: Tent rigging? Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:10:37 -0400 Message-ID: Hello -- I am at the moment the production manager/technical director for the Hudson Valley Shakespeare Festival. We perform in a 60 X 90 foot tent with approximately a 30 X 30 stage in the tent and then a field overlooking the Hudson. The audience is seated on risers that make it feel like a thrust stage though allow action to happen in the field to be seen by almost everybody. To maximize lighting positions we have typically had a section of 2ft box truss suspended from the main tent poles with one 1/2 ton motor on each side of the 30 span, on the on-stage side of the poles with each end of the truss captive on the pole. This "main" truss has design is much better than it has been in the past. The rest of the rig is symmetrical on either side of the main tent poles. From the main pole dead hung on a beam clamp ~16 feet high is a piece of 1ft box going approximately 12 feet horizontally off and up stage. This section in the past has been supported by a single schedule 40 boom pipe at the end with the boom on the onstage side of the truss held on by two cheese-boro's. (The Middle Point) From this same boom, from the onstage face another piece of truss ~16 feet long and going on a diagonal from ~16 feet high to ~8 feet high to the upstage end on the audience risers. On this end a diagonal support as well as a schd 40 boom supports the truss. The problem in the rig is the middle point in the truss system. We managed to minimize the twist of the truss by putting pieces of schd 40 perpendicular to the boom to allow a cheese-boro on a third chord of the truss. But the schd 40 boom had a visible jog in the pipe after the light hang was complete. This worries me. The idea I've been thinking about is to have two booms instead of one at the middle point in the audience. One boom on the onstage side and one on the offstage side of the 12 foot truss coming from the main pole. The booms wouldn't be typical because of the riser configuration and the lack of space under the risers for full boom bases. I have been considering placing a piece of 1/4" plate 4 foot square under the risers at this point and to that welding a piece of 3/8" flat stock that would have two pieces of 1-9/16" mech tube welded at the proper spacing for the two booms. The mech tube could probably be 18" long at most allowing for the two boom pipes to slide on. I am thinking that with two booms allowing all four chords to be cheese-boro'd in the horizontal piece of truss this part of the structure would become a static piece. Then the section that diag's down to the upstage side of the audience would be supported on a piece that could hold both the vertical load as well as the horizontal load caused by the diagonal orientation of the truss. I have thought about a piece of triangle truss for the middle point but can not loose that many seats, so I was thinking that I could weld up the two booms as a piece of flat truss and make the structure more rigid and able to take the load. I am curious as to what others think about this idea. Unfortunately it is difficult to justify the expense of custom truss when we supposedly have a new tent in the works that includes a lighting grid and the current designs as bad as they were in the past haven't worried anybody except the LD and myself. Would schd 80 pipe be better for the middle boom? What kind of flat truss should I make? Is it even worth it to improve? I can get fixture counts if that helps. Thanks for your time, -- Josh PS I just re-subscribed to the list so hopefully this message comes through. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Wireless Intercoms Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:29:48 -0500 Message-ID: <39870A65DDC5AF4F8FA39BD78F06BED1302865 [at] carbon.payton.cps.k12.il.us> From: "Brian Desmond" Greg- I definitely need two-way comm. On the system.=20 --Brian Desmond desmondb [at] payton.cps.k12.il.us Payton on the Web! Http://www.wpcp.org =20 v: 773.534.0034 x135 f: 773.534.0035 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: gbierly [at] dejazzd.com [mailto:gbierly [at] dejazzd.com]=20 Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 8:56 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Wireless Intercoms For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- > Another option is to do a hybrid system: use as few channels of actual > wireless headset as you can get away with (only for those users who have to=20 > spend all their time talking) and couple that to a UHF full-duplex repeater=20 > system. =20 Another hybrid option that may not work in your situation is one that I saw a touring show use that works great for me. I tie the audio out of the headset system (wired Telex and wireless Clearcom) into a FM hearing assistance transmitter. Then supply all the crew with listen only earbuds leaving only a Stage Left and Right stage manager able to talk. I a high school setting it really cuts down the chatter and someone can report to a stage manager if a response is needed. An additional benifit I have is I have a frequency selectable ADA receiver that I can switch between the "Com" and "house" frequecy to check on both the crew and the mix. =20 This worked in my situation since I had a spare transmitter with 50 (yes fifty) receivers laying around to hook up. =20 Again this will only work for some applications and most likely not yours but is way cheaper that adding channels to the Wireless clearcom. Greg Bierly Hempfield HS ------------------------------ From: "Andy Leviss" Subject: Re: Wireless Intercoms Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:49:42 -0400 Message-ID: <003e01c44202$f34994b0$222e84ac [at] AndyLeviss> In-Reply-To: Greg Bierly wrote: > Another hybrid option that may not work in your situation is > one that I saw a touring show use that works great for me. I > tie the audio out of the headset system (wired Telex and > wireless Clearcom) into a FM hearing assistance transmitter. > Then supply all the crew with listen only earbuds I could be wrong, but IIRC this could get you into trouble, because the frequency bands allocated by the FCC for these devices are intended ONLY for use as auditory assistance systems (I'm not quite sure, I think the lower frequency ones, in the 70s, may be open to other use, but I'm pretty sure the 216-220 mHz range is strictly for auditory assistance). --Andy, looking for another tour in need of a sound guy :o) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.682 / Virus Database: 444 - Release Date: 5/11/2004 ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Wireless Intercoms Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:53:46 -0500 Message-ID: <39870A65DDC5AF4F8FA39BD78F06BED1302867 [at] carbon.payton.cps.k12.il.us> From: "Brian Desmond" Dwayne- I'll check out the Telex system. We have Telex wireless mics.=20 I'm not sure I quite understand the system you're describing. I need all the headsets to be two-way aka send and receive. I'd like it to be full duplex, because otherwise we'd just keep the two way radios.=20 If I were to go for a hybrid system (retrospectively, I could put three or four headsets on a leash), what sort of cable do you run? 5 pin XLR? I could rewire the camera tie wall plates really easily if that's the case.=20 Can you give me any sort of figure on what this system runs? As you can probably tell, I've never shopped for one of these setups before.=20 --Brian Desmond desmondb [at] payton.cps.k12.il.us Payton on the Web! Http://www.wpcp.org =20 v: 773.534.0034 x135 f: 773.534.0035 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Dwayne Reid [mailto:dwayner [at] planet.eon.net]=20 Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:51 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Wireless Intercoms For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- At 03:55 PM 5/24/2004, Brian Desmond wrote: >I'm in the market for a 6 - 8 headset wireless intercom system.=20 >Retrofitting with a hardwire system is not an option. We'd use them=20 >mainly for video shoots, one for a floor director, plus our control room=20 >crew. The space isn't very big, I don't know the measurements offhand,=20 >though I can get them if necessary. A regular Motorola two way radio works=20 >fine in there. > >The requirements I have, offhand are: >* Push to talk or open mic >* Program audio tie-in, but, push tot talk would mute the program audio >(this isn't a must have, it'd just be nice) >* Being able to extend the antennas - our wireless mics have the antennas=20 >embedded in the ceiling, I'd just assume do the same here >* Rechargeable battery (I'd rather not be sticking 12 AA batteries in or=20 >something goofy like that) >* Expandability would be nice (e.g. we somehow outgrow six headsets, so >order another base unit or something) RTS BTR-800 immediately comes to mind:=20 .=20 You would need 2 base units (each handles 4 headsets) and up to 8 headsets. These are pricey but work fairly well out of the box. I've developed some=20 mods for them that make them work extremely well but those most=20 people don't need the mods. I've also worked a lot with the Telex BTR-500 & 600 systems - these are=20 single headset systems that can be connected to make as large a system as=20 you want. 4 of those cost more than the BTR-800 and do not have as many features. Another option is to do a hybrid system: use as few channels of actual=20 wireless headset as you can get away with (only for those users who have to=20 spend all their time talking) and couple that to a UHF full-duplex repeater=20 system. This can lower costs dramatically but only one user on the=20 repeater system can talk any any one time. However, this works great for=20 cameramen, shaders, switchers, us audio guys, etc. The system I work with is fairly large: we regularly use about a dozen=20 BTR500 headsets, 3 or 4 BTR-800 systems (up to 12 headsets), 3 or 4 UHF=20 repeater channels with a couple of dozen Motorola portable radios with=20 Beyer headsets - all on 16 to 20 channels of wired and wireless=20 intercom. It really does work well! dwayne --=20 Dwayne Reid Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 20 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2004) .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .- `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address. This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ------------------------------ From: "Andy Leviss" Subject: Re: Wireless Intercoms Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 23:01:45 -0400 Message-ID: <003f01c44204$9f7a20a0$222e84ac [at] AndyLeviss> In-Reply-To: I forgot to add another helpful suggestion. You may want to look at HME as another brand, too. We had some older HMEs (the 800s, IIRC) out on "The Full Monty", and they worked nicely. Same as some others described, 4 to a 1 RU system, I believe you can go up to 3 systems together and keep full duplex, and you can add unlimited half-duplex onto any system. They come ready to interface with most any 2-wire or 4-wire wired system. Hope this helps, Andy --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.682 / Virus Database: 444 - Release Date: 5/11/2004 ------------------------------ From: "Andy Leviss" Subject: Re: Wireless Intercoms Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 23:19:34 -0400 Message-ID: <004001c44207$1f89def0$222e84ac [at] AndyLeviss> In-Reply-To: Further thoughts. The Telex ones I've used were built like tanks, nice heavy-duty metal construction, but the battery sleds sucked. The clips would always be breaking off, and we'd always be ordering replacements. Yuck. The HMEs don't feel quite as sturdy, since they're plastic, but they also don't feel flimsy, and they held up pretty well on our tour. Both used AA batteries, six in the Telex, four in the HME, IIRC. At Utah Shakes, we used rechargeables in the Telex units, on Monty we just used standard alkaline Energizer Industrials. It's possible that they make rechargeable battery packs for one or the other of the units, since both have sleds of some sort that could easily be replaced with battery packs. I don't know for sure, though. --A --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.682 / Virus Database: 444 - Release Date: 5/11/2004 ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 01:21:39 -0400 From: Michael Feinberg Subject: Re: Wireless Intercoms >If I were to go for a hybrid system (retrospectively, I could put three or >four headsets on a leash), what sort of cable do you run? 5 pin XLR? I could >rewire the camera tie wall plates really easily if that's the case. > >Can you give me any sort of figure on what this system runs? As you can >probably tell, I've never shopped for one of these setups before. If you can go wired, that will save you a _lot_ of money. The cheapest wireless setup I know of is the Telex BTR300, 1RU VHF unit supporting four TR300 beltpacks. List price on a BTR300 w/ four TR300s is $5371. Compared to a wired ClearCom PS-232 power supply and four RS501 beltpacks at only $1488. Neither of those includes headsets (typically $150-$350/ea.) Since I have the Full Compass catalog page open I can also tell you that list prices for a 4 channel setup is $11312 for BTR500, $9536 for BTR600, $7475 for BTR700, and $9895 for BTR800. Check them out online at http://www.telex.com/Intercoms/products.nsf/pages/ProductFamily=Radiocom%20Wireless I've used the TR300s and while they were plastic, they were reasonably rugged and got decent reception. As others have mentioned you should also check out ClearCom/Vega's products (http://www.clearcom.com/products/wireless/wireless.html) and HME's (http://www.hme.com/products/proaudio/index.htm) As far as I know all of them will interface with a normal ClearCom or Telex wired intercom system. Since you can run cable to the camera positions, I'd recommend that you do that and then put a powered main station and the wireless base station in the control room. A ClearCom MS-232 ($995) or Telex MS-2002 ($1057) main station will give you two wired channels. You could put the wired cameras on one channel and connect the wireless base station to the other channel. The director at the main station has access to both channels and can bridge them with a button push so that everyone can talk to everyone else. If you need multi-channel access for everyone, both ClearCom and Telex make two-channel wired beltpacks and the Telex BTR800 system supports two-channel wireless beltpacks. Portable wiring for intercom is typically done with ordinary single pair shielded mic cable terminated in 3-pin XLRs. Installed wiring usually uses a heavier gauge wire (20 or 22 instead of 24 or 26) to handle the DC power supplied to the beltpacks, but with only 4 or so packs that won't really be an issue in your system. Intercom wall plates generally have an XLR-3 connector for each channel. These are often male to distinguish them from microphone inputs, but I've also seen females used. Packs typically have both genders on them so they can be daisy-chained, so as long as you're using male-female cables, the wall plate gender is your preference. I have seen multi-pin XLRs used for multi-channel systems, and the two-channel beltpacks have XLR-6 inputs. Hope this helps, feel free to e-mail me with more questions. -Michael Feinberg, CTS ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #17 ****************************