Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.5) with PIPE id 4759991; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 03:01:18 -0700 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.5 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #169 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 03:00:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.0-pre4 (2004-08-04) on prxy.net X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,US_DOLLARS_2 autolearn=ham version=3.0.0-pre4 X-Spam-Level: X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4a3 For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #169 1. Prop Authenticity Question by SMANKO [at] aol.com 2. Re: spike tape on operating lines by "Delbert Hall" 3. Re: USITT 10th Biennial Tech Expo, Toronto by "Delbert Hall" 4. Re: Standard Voltages Sensor Dimmers by "Lin Wheeler" 5. Re: Select paint area on drop by Richard Niederberg 6. Re: Select paint area on drop by Kevin Lee Allen 7. Re: Gel Cutting by Kyle Dugger 8. Re: Amateur/professional/academic by "Paul Guncheon" 9. Autocad Draftspeople by Stan Pressner 10. Select paint area on drop by "Paul Guncheon" 11. Re: Select paint area on drop by Kevin Lee Allen 12. USITT Session by "Immel,Patrick" 13. Re: Multiple LED Source by "Paul Guncheon" 14. Grants for Lighting Equipment by "Immel,Patrick" 15. Fire on Stage by Ron Owens 16. Re: Campfire Ideas by "Fritz Schwentker" 17. Re: Fire on Stage by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 18. Re: Fire on Stage by "Tony Deeming" 19. Re: Multiple LED Source by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 20. Re: Multiple LED Source by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 21. Re: Multiple LED Source by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 22. Re: Grants for Lighting Equipment by Stephen Litterst 23. Re: Grants for Lighting Equipment by "Tony Deeming" 24. Re: Multiple LED Source by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 25. Re: Select paint area on drop by Mick Alderson 26. Re: Fire on Stage by "richard j. archer" 27. Re: Fire on Stage by "Delbert Hall" 28. Re: Gel Cutting by "Carson Koz Noel at LSFX Co." 29. Re: Fire on Stage by Pat Kight 30. Grants for public school theatre arts by "CATHERINE BRUMM" 31. Re: Grants for Lighting Equipment by Stephen Litterst 32. Re: USITT Session by "Phil Johnson" 33. Re: Grants for Lighting Equipment by "Hofmann, Christopher" 34. Re: Standard Voltages Sensor Dimmers by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 35. A cautionary tale by Fred Fisher 36. Re: Gel Cutting by "Fritz, Barry" 37. Re: Grants for public school theatre arts by "Jon Ares" 38. Re: Grants for Lighting Equipment by "Michael S. Eddy" 39. Re: Fire on Stage by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 40. Re: Multiple LED Source by "Michael S. Eddy" 41. Re: Multiple LED Source by "Michael S. Eddy" 42. Re: Multiple LED Source by "Michael S. Eddy" 43. Re: Select paint area on drop by "Janice Pohl" 44. Re: Fire on Stage by "Tony Deeming" 45. Re: Fire on Stage by MissWisc [at] aol.com 46. Re: Fire on Stage by Mark O'Brien 47. Re: Fire on Stage by Steve Larson 48. Re: Fire on Stage by Stephen Litterst 49. Re: Fire on Stage by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 50. Re: Fire on Stage by "Delbert Hall" 51. Re: Fire on Stage by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 52. Re: Fire on Stage by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 53. Re: Fire on Stage by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 54. Re: Fire on Stage by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 55. Re: Fire on Stage by Mark O'Brien 56. Re: Fire on Stage by Stuart Wheaton 57. Re: Gel Cutting by "Don Taco" 58. Re: Gel Cutting by IAEG [at] aol.com 59. Re: Mac 2k reset, was coffee pot library by Kyle Dugger 60. Re: Fire on Stage by Dale Farmer 61. Re: Gel Cutting by "Occy Occy" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SMANKO [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1e5.2cd90f0f.2ea7a49f [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:23:11 EDT Subject: Prop Authenticity Question Christopher Hofmann wrote: ''The piece I'm looking for that I don't seem to find easily is whether or not a cassette recorder would have been common enough and inexpensive enough in 1968 such that a teenager might have saved some paper route money and purchased one.'' The Philips Model 150 Carry-corder was invented in '63 and marketed first in '64. (source:The Look of the Century- New York,1996, Houghton Mifflin). The real question for the director is: Is the actor using this recorder for personal recording or using pre recorded media (music)? The predominant prerecorded media of the mid-late '60s would have been 8-track cassettes that you could use at home and in a car. A mid-60s teen would probably have a small 3'' reel to reel and make awful mono copies from the phonograph with a hand held mic. John McK is correct in his assessment: The trick is to read minds is to figure out what people *want*, as opposed to what they *ask for*. Half of solving a prop question is reading minds. Michael Smanko B'way Prop Guy smanko [at] aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: RE: spike tape on operating lines Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:06:31 -0400 Organization: ETSU Message-ID: <000301c4b69d$3e366750$6400a8c0 [at] delbert> In-Reply-To: Frank said, So with battens or bars. The UK usage is that a batten is a long, thin piece of wood. In the old days, these sometimes had lampholders screwed to them for basic illumination. A bar, apart from being a place of refreshment, is a long piece of 2" OD steel tube on which lighting equipment is hung. Delbert's reply: In the US, a (generic) batten can be either wood or metal. Wooden battens have several uses. Some wooden battens (aka stiffeners) are often used to brace several flats that are on the same plane, while others are horizontal beams to which a curtains or drops are attached (some UK folks refer to these wooden battens as "timbers." Pipe battens (mostly used in mechanical counterweight systems or "dead-hung" are typically 1.5" ID steel pipe. Aluminum tubing or an extrusion can also be used for this purpose. I was not clear in my post, but since I have referenced this in the past I thought most people on the list would realize that I was referring to the (pipe) "batten" used on mechanical counterweight systems. Wood, steel pipe, and aluminum tubing can all be used as the "batten" on a mechanical counterweight system, but steel pipe (not tubing) is by far the most common material (both in the US and the UK) for this purpose. I know that folks in the UK use the term "bar" for what we in the US refer to as a "batten." I should have realized that my post would be read non-Americans and been more specific. -Delbert ------------------------------ From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: RE: USITT 10th Biennial Tech Expo, Toronto Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:15:26 -0400 Organization: ETSU Message-ID: <000601c4b69e$7b9c5ef0$6400a8c0 [at] delbert> In-Reply-To: -----Original Message----- This is what I am entering: 2-axis, self-contained, pneumatically powered articulating angel wings for "Angels in America"; ________________________________________________________ Delbert: These are nice wings - you will definitely want to see them. Loren - will you be coming to Saddleback on Saturday or just sending the wings? I hope to see you there. I am installing one of our new DAT-4112 systems and you might be interested in seeing it. -Delbert ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Standard Voltages Sensor Dimmers Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:16:56 -0500 Message-ID: <0B70E9798A3B4E4080E46327FA359F2102D42F [at] MIDL-MAILV.etclink.net> From: "Lin Wheeler" James wrote, <> James I can't make the decision for you but here is some information that may help. You should first determine what voltage your fixtures are really seeing. To do this you need to meter a circuit that is nearest the dimmer rack and one that is furthest from the dimmer rack. This must be done with a load and you must use a True RMS meter to get a correct reading. You've probably noticed that most lamp manufactures offer a variety of lamp types in a 115v version. The reason for this is to account for line loss between the dimmer and the lamp.=20 From the voltages you stated my guess is that you probably have in the neighborhood of 115v at the lamp so you may not need to change anything. Moving the scale voltage up will probably not gain you anything due to insertion loss thru the dimmer and line loss to the fixture. After metering power at the fixture that's closest to the dimmer, if its above 115v, than you can adjust the scale voltage. But keep in mind what you have at the circuits farthest from the dimmers and you may want to do this selectively. If the number of S4 fixtures you have is relatively small you may want to move towards 120v lamps over time just to keep things consistent. =20 Lin Wheeler Senior Field Service Engineer Electronic Theatre Controls, Inc. lwheeler [at] etcconnect.com =20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:14:34 -0700 Subject: Re: Select paint area on drop Message-ID: <20041020.061441.2076.0.ladesigners [at] juno.com> From: Richard Niederberg Dear Chris, Painting the 'moon' area with linseed oil, paraffin, or some other nonflammable petroleum distillate or food-grade oil-based product should produce a translucent area that can be backlit, but future reuse of the drop could be impaired. Obtain and check the MSDSs first, of course. /s/ Richard > Im working on a production where the set designer is > using a drop but also wants to light threw part of it. > Basicly she wants the muslin to be bare where the > moon is in the drop so that she can light threw it. > The problem comes in masking the moon (there are some > other small areas too) so that when I paint the rest > of the drop with thin supersat that it doesnt blead > into the area of the moon. The cheap the solution the > better but any ideas are better then what I currently > have. We cant cut the moon out and then replace the > muslin because of how it will be lit. I hope this all > makes sense, its been a long week. Quicker responces > will help since I have to paint this drop in about a > week and a half and need time to get supplies. Thanks > for your help. > Chris Wych ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:23:15 -0400 From: Kevin Lee Allen Subject: Re: Select paint area on drop In-reply-to: Message-id: <32C7535F-229B-11D9-AADC-003065D2C502 [at] klad.com> References: When you lay out the drop for priming, size the drop first, then layout=20= those areas that you wish to mask off and leave translucent. Mask them=20= with paper and masking tape. Prime coat the drop and complete your cartoon and paint. Be sure to ink=20= around the translucencies, but not so close that the dye bleeds into=20 the translucent area. After the drop is painted and dry, you will need to flip it over and=20 opaque out the back of the drop with prime coat. If you want to go=20 black, prime first, then apply back over. It will be one thing for your=20= prime color to belled through tot he front into the prime on the font,=20= another if black bleeds through. Due to the heavy application of paint, you will probably need to roll=20 this drop, rather than fold. BTW (an I hope I haven't done this anywhere here) by" threw," I think=20 and have asssumed you mean "through?" On Oct 20, 2004, at 1:55 AM, Chris Wych wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see=20 > > --------------------------------------------------- > > Im working on a production where the set designer is > using a drop but also wants to light threw part of it. > Basicly she wants the muslin to be bare where the > moon is in the drop so that she can light threw it. > The problem comes in masking the moon (there are some > other small areas too) so that when I paint the rest > of the drop with thin supersat that it doesnt blead > into the area of the moon. The cheap the solution the > better but any ideas are better then what I currently > have. We cant cut the moon out and then replace the > muslin because of how it will be lit. I hope this all > makes sense, its been a long week. Quicker responces > will help since I have to paint this drop in about a > week and a half and need time to get supplies. Thanks > for your help. ----- Kevin Lee Allen Production Designer http://www.klad.com 973.744.6352.voice 201.280.3841.cell klad [at] klad.com =F0 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <419F531E.4030908 [at] earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 08:22:22 -0600 From: Kyle Dugger Subject: Re: Gel Cutting References: > > > >I use a rotary cutter that's intended for quilting. Set the gel on the >cutting surface which has measurements printed on it, lay a ruler to act as guide if >I need a really straight edge, and cut. Far cheaper than a paper cutter. > >Kristi > > > I agree. This is what we use. Our cutting surface is a self-healing cutting mat. All of our gel measurements are written on it and since it is gridded it very easy to quickly cut gels for a show. kyle dugger ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002a01c4b6a9$2a510ea0$0202a8c0 [at] MyLastPC> From: "Paul Guncheon" References: Subject: Re: Amateur/professional/academic Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 03:31:53 -1000 <> I can only speak for myself but it truly depends on the project. Most of the higher ticket items I have designed are industrials and simply don't require the attention to detail and layering that is possible when doing a design for drama. I certainly hope that the quality of my work does not depend on the amount I am getting paid... perhaps the quantity might though. As I have said before, I design for myself and am my own harshest critic. My experience in academia has lead me to believe that designing there is an entirely different beast. The goal there is to teach. Laters, Paul "I collect fairy tales," said Tom grimly. ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Stan Pressner Subject: Autocad Draftspeople Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:56:02 -0400 I am also seeking autocad draftspeople in NYC for a rapidly approaching project. Those of you who know me know that this is sacrilege in my mac/Vectorworks studio, but circumstances demand it. If anyone is available, please email: StanP [at] aol.com Best, Stan Pressner ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001601c4b6ae$62075930$0202a8c0 [at] MyLastPC> From: "Paul Guncheon" References: Subject: Select paint area on drop Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:09:14 -1000 <> Honestly never tried it but my first thought would be to checkout batiking techniques, i.e. outlining the blank spaces with hot wax using a tjanting. http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1631-AA.shtml Please let the list know how you finally do it... what worked and what didn't. Laters, Paul "I know all the wherefores," said Tom wisely. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:17:10 -0400 From: Kevin Lee Allen Subject: Re: Select paint area on drop In-reply-to: Message-id: References: BTW, either the drop needs to be built to accommodate the design, or=20 the design needs to work with the stitching of the drop, or you will=20 need a seamless. ----- Kevin Lee Allen Production Designer http://www.klad.com 973.744.6352.voice 201.280.3841.cell klad [at] klad.com =F0 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <147CF8DFB9C5D41187300001FA7EE3902277C409 [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu> From: "Immel,Patrick" Subject: USITT Session Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:25:40 -0500 Hey All, I am chairing a session at USITT, this spring in Toronto entitled, "Forum on Teaching Introductory Stagecraft: Techniques & Tips". I am still on the hunt for panelists. So...if you have any interesting ideas or tips for teaching stagecraft, College or High School, contact me! I can tell from experience that school administrators LOVE IT when their faculty present at big conferences like this! Thanks, ******************************************************** Patrick Immel Lighting & Scenic Designer Northwest Missouri State University ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000501c4b6b0$c93e0200$0202a8c0 [at] MyLastPC> From: "Paul Guncheon" References: Subject: RE: Multiple LED Source Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:26:26 -1000 <> Historically, Doom's postings have been somewhat brief and often obscure... but this one. When is "yesterday" and what is he talking about? A "major article" on multiple LED sources? There's nothing on the NY Times website. Maybe just a few more words? Paul "I forgot what to buy," Tom said listlessly. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <147CF8DFB9C5D41187300001FA7EE3902277C40A [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu> From: "Immel,Patrick" Subject: Grants for Lighting Equipment Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:26:54 -0500 Its me again, The Technical Director and myself are beginning the process of finding grants / money to buy new conventional (and hopefully wiggle lights) lighting fixtures. I know some of the obvious advantages to switching to the new type of fixture (ie, source four and shakespeare), one lamp, energy savings, etc. What I want to know if anybody has found any successful grant sources / ideas / tips that they would be willing to share. Thanks in advance, ******************************************************** Patrick Immel Lighting & Scenic Designer Northwest Missouri State University ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:32:13 -0700 Subject: Fire on Stage From: Ron Owens Message-ID: I have a director wanting to start a fire in a small trashcan on stage; this is for the play Getting Out by Marsha Norman. I'm thinking this is not a great idea. Would anyone out there who has faced this question before be willing to share some advice? Thanks! ------------------------------ From: "Fritz Schwentker" Subject: RE: Campfire Ideas Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:52:42 -0500 Message-Id: Chris: I have noticed that all of the posts on this topic mention ways to create the flame...but in my experience, if verisimilitude is desired, it is the smoke that makes the effect work. All of the campfires I have ever made were pretty smoky affairs and adding just a bit to your stage effect will help a great deal. The last time I did this we were able to mount a small Rosco-fogger directly under the stage in the trap room and pipe it up through a small hole in the stage. The campfire unit itself had an open base so that the smoke/fog would drift through. It worked great. Best wishes, Fritz ===================================================== Fritz Schwentker --Stage Automation/Technical Management/Technical Design www.schwentker.com 512 585 5184 ===================================================== > -----Original Message----- > 18. Campfire Ideas > by Chris Fretts > From: Chris Fretts > Subject: Campfire Ideas > Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:19:10 -0500 > > I am looking for thoughts and suggestions about creating campfires > onstage for a production of The Grapes of Wrath. ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Fire on Stage Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:58:14 -0400 Message-ID: <000601c4b6b5$3a004ad0$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-reply-to: > I have a director wanting to start a fire in a small trashcan > on stage; this is for the play Getting Out by Marsha Norman. > I'm thinking this is not a great idea. > > Would anyone out there who has faced this question before be > willing to share some advice? Arguing on the basis of common sense probably won't work, since if s/he had any, this wouldn't even be an issue. It's almost a mortal lock that it's illegal in your jurisdiction; do the research and argue it on those grounds. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <01f501c4b6b5$6e66c060$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:59:39 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Owens" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 3:32 PM Subject: Fire on Stage > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I have a director wanting to start a fire in a small trashcan on stage; this > is for the play Getting Out by Marsha Norman. I'm thinking this is not a > great idea. > > Would anyone out there who has faced this question before be willing to > share some advice? > > Thanks! > > First comment - ask the question "Can I do this effectively without using real fire?" To all intents and purposes, I'd have to say that as far as audience perception will go, the answer to that would be YES and so should it be. Open flames in something like a trash can is tantamount to catastrophe. I'm not saying it CAN'T be done, just that it's going to be 1000% safer NOT to. There are numerous ways, which will include various tricks that have been discussed under a regular 'campfire' topic on here, but you might want to investigate hiring a miniature fog machine to simulate the smoke to add that bit extra realism. Ynot ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Multiple LED Source Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:10:41 -0700 Message-ID: <012901c4b6b6$f768f350$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: When you posted the inquiry about LED's did seem rather specific, he said being very unobscurious. A major article the same day or the day before, about LED's and theatrical lighting. Large article. I shall try to find the reference so that you do not have to do all of the footwork and simple research to find it. Be patient ..................... Dr. doom. ==================================================== A Masters Workshop for Entertainment Technicians, Riggers, Public Assembly Technicians, and Educational Performing Arts Personnel - Sponsored by Risk International & Associates, Inc. April 4, 5, 6, 2005 at ELCO Performing Arts Center, Elkhart, Indiana Brochure & Registration Form available at: www.riskit.com/workshops ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Paul Guncheon Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 7:26 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Multiple LED Source For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- <> Historically, Doom's postings have been somewhat brief and often obscure... but this one. When is "yesterday" and what is he talking about? A "major article" on multiple LED sources? There's nothing on the NY Times website. Maybe just a few more words? Paul "I forgot what to buy," Tom said listlessly. ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Multiple LED Source Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:12:28 -0700 Message-ID: <015f01c4b6b7$3728aee0$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: One has to search with intrepid and meticulous care for the article. I have already deleted it from my screen, otherwise I would have sent it to you. But do send me your address and I will look through my NY Times archives. An excellent article and one which might enlighten the ensuing masses c'est possible. Doom ==================================================== A Masters Workshop for Entertainment Technicians, Riggers, Public Assembly Technicians, and Educational Performing Arts Personnel - Sponsored by Risk International & Associates, Inc. April 4, 5, 6, 2005 at ELCO Performing Arts Center, Elkhart, Indiana Brochure & Registration Form available at: www.riskit.com/workshops ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Paul Guncheon Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 7:26 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Multiple LED Source For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- <> Historically, Doom's postings have been somewhat brief and often obscure... but this one. When is "yesterday" and what is he talking about? A "major article" on multiple LED sources? There's nothing on the NY Times website. Maybe just a few more words? Paul "I forgot what to buy," Tom said listlessly. ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Multiple LED Source Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:13:27 -0700 Message-ID: <016901c4b6b7$5b4b52f0$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: Yes, and it IS on the NY Times WEB site for all those who wish to find it. I will however send it to you via snail mail if there is continued professional interest. Dr. Doom ==================================================== A Masters Workshop for Entertainment Technicians, Riggers, Public Assembly Technicians, and Educational Performing Arts Personnel - Sponsored by Risk International & Associates, Inc. April 4, 5, 6, 2005 at ELCO Performing Arts Center, Elkhart, Indiana Brochure & Registration Form available at: www.riskit.com/workshops ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Paul Guncheon Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 7:26 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Multiple LED Source For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- <> Historically, Doom's postings have been somewhat brief and often obscure... but this one. When is "yesterday" and what is he talking about? A "major article" on multiple LED sources? There's nothing on the NY Times website. Maybe just a few more words? Paul "I forgot what to buy," Tom said listlessly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:46:46 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Grants for Lighting Equipment Message-id: <41767A56.BF345CB3 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: "Immel,Patrick" wrote: > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Its me again, > > The Technical Director and myself are beginning the process of finding > grants / money to buy new conventional (and hopefully wiggle lights) > lighting fixtures. I know some of the obvious advantages to switching to > the new type of fixture (ie, source four and shakespeare), one lamp, energy > savings, etc. What I want to know if anybody has found any successful grant > sources / ideas / tips that they would be willing to share. Well, the secret's out on the Martin grant, so it can't hurt to talk about it here. Martin Professional offers a $50k grant each year to an academic institution with a strong lighting technology program. The schools who have received it (CMU, UNLV, UConn, and Northwestern) have generally raved about the boost to their program. Applications are accepted between Jan 1 and June 30 and more information is available from Ben Dickmann, Marketing Coordinator at Martin, US. The field of applicants grows exponentially every year. The first year I wrote for this grant there were 9 of us, and it's caught on like wildfire. Steve L. (I can't believe I'm increasing competition for this grant...) -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <021d01c4b6b8$7f0331d0$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Grants for Lighting Equipment Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:21:35 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Litterst" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 3:46 PM Subject: Re: Grants for Lighting Equipment > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > "Immel,Patrick" wrote: > > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > Its me again, > > > > The Technical Director and myself are beginning the process of finding > > grants / money to buy new conventional (and hopefully wiggle lights) > > lighting fixtures. I know some of the obvious advantages to switching to > > the new type of fixture (ie, source four and shakespeare), one lamp, energy > > savings, etc. What I want to know if anybody has found any successful grant > > sources / ideas / tips that they would be willing to share. > > Well, the secret's out on the Martin grant, so it can't hurt to talk > about it here. Martin Professional offers a $50k grant each year to > an academic institution with a strong lighting technology program. > The schools who have received it (CMU, UNLV, UConn, and Northwestern) > have generally raved about the boost to their program. Applications > are accepted between Jan 1 and June 30 and more information is > available from Ben Dickmann, Marketing Coordinator at Martin, US. > > The field of applicants grows exponentially every year. The first > year I wrote for this grant there were 9 of us, and it's caught on > like wildfire. > > Steve L. > (I can't believe I'm increasing competition for this grant...) > > > -- > Stephen C. Litterst > Hmm.... Not that I'm an academician, but do they extend that to the right side of the pond.....? Ynot ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Multiple LED Source Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:29:03 -0700 Message-ID: <017101c4b6b9$8a7d02b0$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: The New York Times, Section C, October 18, 2004, page 4. Tiny L.E.D's Grow into mighty Theatrical Lights. Three fourths of a page article. Your are welcome. Dr. Doom ==================================================== A Masters Workshop for Entertainment Technicians, Riggers, Public Assembly Technicians, and Educational Performing Arts Personnel - Sponsored by Risk International & Associates, Inc. April 4, 5, 6, 2005 at ELCO Performing Arts Center, Elkhart, Indiana Brochure & Registration Form available at: www.riskit.com/workshops ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Paul Guncheon Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 7:26 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Multiple LED Source For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- <> Historically, Doom's postings have been somewhat brief and often obscure... but this one. When is "yesterday" and what is he talking about? A "major article" on multiple LED sources? There's nothing on the NY Times website. Maybe just a few more words? Paul "I forgot what to buy," Tom said listlessly. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:39:50 -0500 From: Mick Alderson Subject: Re: Select paint area on drop Message-id: Chris Wych wrote: > >Im working on a production where the set designer is >using a drop but also wants to light threw part of it. > Basicly she wants the muslin to be bare where the >moon is in the drop so that she can light threw it. >The problem comes in masking the moon (there are some >other small areas too) so that when I paint the rest >of the drop with thin supersat that it doesnt blead >into the area of the moon. One idea that comes to mind (I haven't done it myself) would be to "paint" a thin outline around the moon with melted wax before painting the surrounding area. Make the wax line no wider than what a watercolor brush can apply in a stroke. That should block the capillary flow of paint into the raw muslin area you are trying to maintain, and a thin line of "white" wax shouldn't show from a distance. Sort of like in batique where the wax coat is applied to resist the next dye bath. If the wax isn't applied too heavily, it shouldn't be any stiffer than the paint coat, so wouldn't need removal. Just a though. By the way, what is petroleum wax (called "paraffin" in the States) known as elsewhere? Mick Alderson TD, Fredric March Theatre University of Wisconsin Oshkosh alderson [at] uwosh.edu ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:29:22 -0400 From: "richard j. archer" Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Ron and for Chris Fretts who asked the other day: Last spring we did Grapes of Wrath and had campfires. Fuel was GAM torch pellets (usually two at a time). . These "pellets" were first place into chaffing dish sterno holders (those little metal tuna fish sized cans with sliding lids). These were then placed in the "scenic" steel drums or in a cement board lined box sunk into the stage. Actors slid the lid(s) and used a match to light the pellets. Yes actors were able to do this. We had people manning fire extinguishers on both sides of the stage. The fire marshal gave us his okay. Of course, maybe he just thought this was safer than the remotely lighted propane fires we did the semester before for Antigone. Either that or he might have thought the rain we had to do for Grapes could be used to put out the fire. Dick A TD, Cornell U ------------------------------ From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: RE: Fire on Stage Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:34:34 -0400 Organization: ETSU Message-ID: <000001c4b6ba$4d4ed200$6400a8c0 [at] delbert> In-reply-to: About 15 years ago I had the same problem. I put a small trap into the stage floor (where the trash can would sit) and drilled about 30 1/4" dia. hole in the trap so that light and smoke could come up from below. I cut most of the bottom out of the trash can, and put in screen wire so that anything that went into the can stayed in. The effect was simple and safe (no fire). Maybe something lit this would work for you. -Delbert -----Original Message----- > I have a director wanting to start a fire in a small trashcan on stage; this > is for the play Getting Out by Marsha Norman. I'm thinking this is not a > great idea. > > Would anyone out there who has faced this question before be willing to > share some advice? > > Thanks! ------------------------------ Message-ID: <007301c4b6bb$04435e40$0301a8c0 [at] Kozmain1> From: "Carson Koz Noel at LSFX Co." References: Subject: Re: Gel Cutting Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:39:41 -0700 Organization: LSFX Co. For the first 30 minutes: New kid... Dull scissors. After much cursing and pleading, we upgrade to the roller cutters. Carson "Koz" Noel, III Light and Sound FX Company / LSFX Tucson, AZ Koz [at] LSFXCo.com LSFXCo [at] cox.net 520.419.4529 - Phone 520.296.9751 - Fax ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41768814.7050408 [at] peak.org> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:45:24 -0700 From: Pat Kight Subject: Re: Fire on Stage References: In-Reply-To: Delbert Hall wrote: > About 15 years ago I had the same problem. I put a small trap into the > stage floor (where the trash can would sit) and drilled about 30 1/4" > dia. hole in the trap so that light and smoke could come up from below. > I cut most of the bottom out of the trash can, and put in screen wire so > that anything that went into the can stayed in. > > The effect was simple and safe (no fire). Maybe something lit this > would work for you. Exactly what we did for "Of Mice and Men" a few years back, sans trashcan. It was one occasion when the fact that our stage floor is right about at audience eye-level, and thus barely visible, actually worked in our favor; we pulled a trap, replaced it with one that had a few holes drilled in it, and sent up light and smoke from below when Lenny and George were huddled around their "campfire." The rest of the time, it was just another section of floor. -- Pat Kight Albany (Ore.) Civic Theater kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:47:43 -0400 From: "CATHERINE BRUMM" Subject: Grants for public school theatre arts While Grants for lighting will work because god knows there are lighting systems in the school system that need repair. If anyone knows of any grants out there that apply to theatre arts education for primary and secondary schools or for public schools systems in general for renovations of spaces. The school system I work in has several spaces that were nice in thier day but have fallen to disrepair in need of new drapes, updated rigging and lighting etc. Anyone who works within a public school system knows that these repairs are put at the bottom of the needs list by the individual schools and are not really taken care of because there is never enough money in the school system. Thank you in advance for any help/advice you can give either on or off list. Catherine K. Brumm, General Manager Minnie Evans Arts Center Wilmington, NC P910-)790-2360 x821 F)910-790-2356 cbrumm [at] nhcs.k12.nc.us www.geocities.com/nhcscbrumm/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:58:15 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Grants for Lighting Equipment Message-id: <41768B17.D2745BA8 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: Tony Deeming wrote: > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen Litterst" > To: "Stagecraft" > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 3:46 PM > Subject: Re: Grants for Lighting Equipment > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > "Immel,Patrick" wrote: > > > > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Its me again, > > > > > > The Technical Director and myself are beginning the process of finding > > > grants / money to buy new conventional (and hopefully wiggle lights) > > > lighting fixtures. I know some of the obvious advantages to switching > to > > > the new type of fixture (ie, source four and shakespeare), one lamp, > energy > > > savings, etc. What I want to know if anybody has found any successful > grant > > > sources / ideas / tips that they would be willing to share. > > > > Well, the secret's out on the Martin grant, so it can't hurt to talk > > about it here. Martin Professional offers a $50k grant each year to > > an academic institution with a strong lighting technology program. > > The schools who have received it (CMU, UNLV, UConn, and Northwestern) > > have generally raved about the boost to their program. Applications > > are accepted between Jan 1 and June 30 and more information is > > available from Ben Dickmann, Marketing Coordinator at Martin, US. > > > > The field of applicants grows exponentially every year. The first > > year I wrote for this grant there were 9 of us, and it's caught on > > like wildfire. > > > > Steve L. > > (I can't believe I'm increasing competition for this grant...) > > > > > > -- > > Stephen C. Litterst > > > > Hmm.... > Not that I'm an academician, but do they extend that to the right side of > the pond.....? To the best of my knowledge it's offered soley through Martin's US company. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:59:32 -0500 From: "Phil Johnson" Subject: Re: USITT Session Pat I have been trying to email you this morning. If you need a panelist, I would like to volunteer. Let me know if you can use me. Phil Johnson Designer/TD Texas A& M - Corpus Christi ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Grants for Lighting Equipment Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:49:21 -0400 Message-ID: <56439B09A4ADDC46876BDFF2BBD35DF001C17510 [at] ex1.capecod.edu> From: "Hofmann, Christopher" >The Technical Director and myself are beginning the >process of finding grants / money to buy new...lighting fixtures. Interestingly enough I'm doing the same thing. I heard a rumor that the Huntington in Boston received a grant from ComElectric to replace old fixtures with new energy efficient ones. Anybody know if this is true? Might be worth checking with your local power company - many of them distribute low-wattage lamps and such to residential customers. Perhaps they also have a corporate/educational program. Chris=20 ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <148.365c4935.2ea7f714 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:15:00 EDT Subject: Re: Standard Voltages Sensor Dimmers In a message dated 20/10/04 00:28:09 GMT Daylight Time, sbmtbike [at] optonline.net writes: > > Your other option is to get 120v lamps for your Source 4s, then you > > can trim all the dimmers to the same level and not have to worry about > > the two different voltages. > > Steve's is the best option long term, > > Till then, easier to patch the dimmers at a lower level at the console then > to mess around at the dimmer CEM. Faster too as you can actually go measure > > the voltage at the assorted circuits and dial it down just so off the RFU. Bear in mind, too, that most AC meters are set to give an RMS measurement when reading a sine wave. With non-sinusoidal waveforms such as dimmers produce, there will be a reading error. How much and which way, I don't know, as it will depend on the meter. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:19:50 -0500 From: Fred Fisher Subject: A cautionary tale Message-id: <5.2.1.1.2.20041020120620.01aa2ad8 [at] wiscmail.wisc.edu> One of the users of a $200 million + performing arts center (that recently opened down the street from us) borrowed one of our A frame ladders because this new facility doesn't have enough to do basic production. Needless to say, we are having a lot of fun with this. On the down side of this. So that the floor in the performance space didn't get scratched, they put towels under the legs which would also let them slide it along the floor. Anyone care to speculate what happened next? With someone 18' in the air, the ladder spotter walked away, the worker leaned out too far on the ladder and it tipped over. She hung onto the pipe as long as she could before falling to the deck and chipping a tooth and slicing open her lip. Sigh,,,, Fred Fisher (hope to see some of you in Lost Wages this weekend) ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4176A3A6.5020607 [at] etown.edu> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:43:02 -0400 From: "Fritz, Barry" Organization: Elizabethtown College Subject: Re: Gel Cutting References: In-Reply-To: When I was still with the Theatre Department, we used a paper cutter. I found that I had to be very careful when sending a newer student to get a "6 inch cut" from a sheet of gel. More often than not, they returned with a nicely cut 6"x6" piece of gel. Now that I no longer have the department's fancy cutting board; I use a gel frame as a template, trace it with a grease pencil, and cut with a pair of nice sharp fabric scissors (The cheaper ones with the bright colorful plastic handles). Seems to be a bit faster if I'm making multiple cuts from a sheet. The scissors are also great for trimming gobos to fit the pattern holders. Just don't tell the costumer. Barry Fritz, Technical Operation Director Elizabethtown College ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001101c4b6cc$32e35780$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Grants for public school theatre arts Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:42:41 -0700 > renovations of spaces. The school system I work in has several spaces > that were nice in thier day but have fallen to disrepair in need of new > drapes, updated rigging and lighting etc. Anyone who works within a > public school system knows that these repairs are put at the bottom of > the needs list by the individual schools and are not really taken care > of because there is never enough money in the school system. I'm interested in this thread as well. So often, grants and other funding sources aren't interested in giving funds for capital expenses. This is something I've been dealing with for some time. The funding sources (groups) that have given a little here and a little there, are more interested in buying us 'something' (so they can brag) but they balk when we say what we really need is stuff to get repaired or replaced, or we need production supplies. Not too glamourous. Or, funding groups and foundations are interested in funding some sort of program - such as an outreach aspect of a specific show. -- Jon Ares Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts www.hevanet.com/acreative http://www.wlhs.wlwv.k12.or.us/aresj/theatre/index.htm ------------------------------ From: "Michael S. Eddy" Subject: RE: Grants for Lighting Equipment Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:43:50 -0500 In-reply-to: Message-ID: >>The Technical Director and myself are beginning the >>process of finding grants / money to buy new...lighting fixtures. >Interestingly enough I'm doing the same thing. I heard a rumor that the >Huntington in Boston received a grant from ComElectric to replace old >fixtures with new energy efficient ones. Anybody know if this is true? >Might be worth checking with your local power company - many of them >distribute low-wattage lamps and such to residential customers. Perhaps >they also have a corporate/educational program. I don't know about the ComElectric deal, but you can check with ETC (or the manufacturer of your choice), but Con Edison in NY did this with the NY State Theatre at Lincoln Center for a huge wack of Source Fours. The energy savings off-sets a large part of the cost of the new fixtures. The theatrical manufacturers may be able to point you in the right direction, as well as your local power company. Michael Eddy ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <30.63478b95.2ea800c3 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:56:19 EDT Subject: Re: Fire on Stage In a message dated 20/10/04 16:00:59 GMT Daylight Time, deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes: > First comment - ask the question "Can I do this effectively without using > real fire?" > To all intents and purposes, I'd have to say that as far as audience > perception will go, the answer to that would be YES and so should it be. > > Open flames in something like a trash can is tantamount to catastrophe. > I'm not saying it CAN'T be done, just that it's going to be 1000% safer NOT > to. Why is the whole of the US so violently against naked flames? I appreciate that your AHJ may have set rules, with which you have to comply. But most major houses, on our side of the pond, use them as needed. With suitable precautions in place, to be sure. I can't see any problems about setting a fire in a trash can. They are inherently fire resistant, and easily doused with a fire blanket. A CO2 extinguisher runs the risk of blowing burning material out of it, and water will not deal with the gas flame. Dry powder might be best. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "Michael S. Eddy" Subject: RE: Multiple LED Source Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:55:50 -0500 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <> >Historically, Doom's postings have been somewhat brief and often obscure... >but this one. >When is "yesterday" and what is he talking about? A "major article" on >multiple LED sources? There's nothing on the NY Times website. >Maybe just a few more words? >Paul The article appeared Monday, October 15th. Here is the link to it, but you may need to sign up for a free account with the NY times first to read it http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/18/technology/18led.html?th The title is misleading, as the article does not deal with theatrical lighting at all, mighty or otherwise. The technology is fascinating, but real-world applications are a ways off. I wonder if Color Kinetics will be suing them for patent infringement?! Enquiring minds... Michael Eddy ------------------------------ From: "Michael S. Eddy" Subject: RE: Multiple LED Source Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:59:46 -0500 In-reply-to: Message-ID: >The article appeared Monday, October 15th. Here is the link to it, but you >may need to sign up for a free account with the NY times first to read it >http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/18/technology/18led.html?th That would be Monday, October 18th. Sorry, still using my old Gregorian calendar. Michael Eddy ------------------------------ From: "Michael S. Eddy" Subject: RE: Multiple LED Source Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:13:20 -0500 In-reply-to: Message-ID: Here is a link to a story on the LSA website about the same company, Lamina Ceramics, that was covered in the NY Times this past Monday, and its super bright LEDs with a theatrical spin on it. The story is on the front page of the LSA website, today, October 20, 2004 in case the link does not work. http://www.lightingandsoundamerica.com/news/story.asp?ID=-512HHW Here is a link to Lamina's website: www.laminaceramics.com Michael Eddy ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002f01c4b6d4$aeeb1360$6d7444ce [at] OTC1375516> From: "Janice Pohl" References: Subject: Re: Select paint area on drop Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:43:25 -0500 When I read the statement about the thin paint, I was reminded of silk painting techniques. Gutta, which comes clear and tinted, is applied to outline edges so that silk paint (thin) can be absorbed as it runs along the long fibres of silk and similar synthetics but be stopped at the Gutta. Gutta doesn't have to be heated and in my limited experience flows more smoothly than wax. Then again, I'm not that skilled. Whether or not you wish to paint the areas you protected with the Gutta border, you wouldn't need to protect the whole area. Some gutta is water based, and some is not - you'll want to do more research. I have exhausted all I know. Janice Pohl ------------------------------ Message-ID: <025e01c4b6dc$c559e600$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:41:15 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 6:56 PM Subject: Re: Fire on Stage > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 20/10/04 16:00:59 GMT Daylight Time, > deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes: > > > First comment - ask the question "Can I do this effectively without using > > real fire?" > > To all intents and purposes, I'd have to say that as far as audience > > perception will go, the answer to that would be YES and so should it be. > > > > Open flames in something like a trash can is tantamount to catastrophe. > > I'm not saying it CAN'T be done, just that it's going to be 1000% safer NOT > > to. > > Why is the whole of the US so violently against naked flames? I appreciate > that your AHJ may have set rules, with which you have to comply. > > But most major houses, on our side of the pond, use them as needed. With > suitable precautions in place, to be sure. > > I can't see any problems about setting a fire in a trash can. They are > inherently fire resistant, and easily doused with a fire blanket. A CO2 extinguisher > runs the risk of blowing burning material out of it, and water will not deal > with the gas flame. Dry powder might be best. > > > Frank Wood I'm nowhere near the US, Frank, as well you know. My caution in this case is not specific to flame on stage, though that HAS to be treated at all times with proper care, but something as volatile as a fire in the can has inherent dangers of it's own. Depending upon the circumstances, the can could be left smouldering on stage at foot level, easily kicked over. As with all live fire circumstances (including pyro) the idea is to guarantee as far as possible that you don't NEED to wander on in stage crew blacks to douse the fire. And if the fire requested is one that is big enough to get over the top of a trash can, then it's FAR too big in my opinion to use on stage! The effect of a small paper fire in a bin is smoke - and that's something we can all produce cheaply, safely and controllably. Ynot ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:48:42 -0400 From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Message-ID: <26607B77.777CE595.007B9F2A [at] aol.com> Frank asked: It has to do with the Iriquois Theatre fire where 600+ people died and subesquent regulations. Don't know if GB has anything comparable. Certain someone on the list will educate me. Kristi ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien) From: Mark O'Brien Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:00:52 -0700 >> Why is the whole of the US so violently against naked flames? I >> appreciate >> that your AHJ may have set rules, with which you have to comply. >> >> But most major houses, on our side of the pond, use them as needed. >> With >> suitable precautions in place, to be sure. >> >> I can't see any problems about setting a fire in a trash can. They are >> inherently fire resistant, and easily doused with a fire blanket. A >> CO2 > extinguisher >> runs the risk of blowing burning material out of it, and water will >> not > deal >> with the gas flame. Dry powder might be best. >> >> >> Frank Wood A few years ago, when I did Grapes of Wrath, We used real fire for the production in La Jolla. It was a fire box with propane, and an electric match. What a PITA. When we played in London, at the NT, In pre production, the mere suggestion of fire about got us knocked out on our ass. Last time I checked, London was on the same side of the pond as you. And that was about 15 years ago. We made up a system with PAR 16's and silk, with a fan, and it actually read better than the (gasp) propane. When we got to NY, they went for real fire again, and Some guy in Ohio (Theatre Magic, I think) made some boxes, with the propane, but they also had built in CO-2 suppression systems in them. A few years later, I helped the university here, make a set of propane boxes. That said, I would not even consider that as a feasible solution, unless it was for an outdoor venue. I drive a CNG truck, and have developed a healthy respect for both CNG, and Propane, and I gotta say. Fire on stage = BAD Mark O'Brien Opera Technical Director University of Arizona, School of Music Tucson, AZ 520/621-7025 520/591-1803 Mobile ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:07:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Fire on Stage From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Didn't London have a great fire in it's history. Didn't London theatre have a relatively historical fire a few hundred years back. Can't recall for sure, but wasn't it "Henry the 8th" and an incident with some cannon fire. Curious minds would like to know. Steve on 10/20/04 3:48 PM, MissWisc [at] aol.com at MissWisc [at] aol.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Frank asked: > > It has to do with the Iriquois Theatre fire where 600+ people died and > subesquent regulations. Don't know if GB has anything comparable. Certain > someone on the list will educate me. > > Kristi > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:02:11 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Message-id: <4176D253.E09F5905 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: MissWisc [at] aol.com wrote: > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Frank asked: > > It has to do with the Iriquois Theatre fire where 600+ people died and subesquent regulations. Don't know if GB has anything comparable. Certain someone on the list will educate me. Well, there would be the Great Fire of 1666. Destroyed most of London. Originally considered a Papist plot, I suspect that it was set by Christopher Wren to increase his prominence as an architect. :) Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Fire on Stage Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:12:33 -0400 Message-ID: <000201c4b6e9$84d037d0$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > Well, there would be the Great Fire of 1666. Destroyed most > of London. Originally considered a Papist plot, I suspect > that it was set by Christopher Wren to increase his > prominence as an architect. Oh, I figure there's some way we can blame it on Frank. ------------------------------ From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: RE: Fire on Stage Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:15:34 -0400 Organization: ETSU Message-ID: <000001c4b6f2$52709fb0$6400a8c0 [at] delbert> In-Reply-To: I have seen several productions of "Getting Out" and none of them have used what I would call "realistic" scenery, so why would the fire have to be real? I agree totally with Mark, a live fire on stage can be a very bad thing. In most cases (especially with this show) there are other (safer) options. Why would anyone choose a less safe option? -Delbert ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1e0.2cdf77fc.2ea84185 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:32:37 EDT Subject: Re: Fire on Stage In a message dated 20/10/04 20:42:01 GMT Daylight Time, deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes: > Depending upon the circumstances, the can could be left smouldering on stage > at foot level, easily kicked over. As with all live fire circumstances > (including pyro) the idea is to guarantee as far as possible that you don't > NEED to wander on in stage crew blacks to douse the fire. I did mention proper precautions. Plainly, these include making sure that the fire is out before you close down. > > And if the fire requested is one that is big enough to get over the top of a > trash can, then it's FAR too big in my opinion to use on stage! Terminology again. I had in mind a steel waste paper basket. If you are thinking of a 3' high by 2' diameter dustbin, I will agree with you. > > The effect of a small paper fire in a bin is smoke - and that's something we > can all produce cheaply, safely and controllably. Yes, but it's black smoke. That's harder to do. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1f1.2d60ece4.2ea84331 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:39:45 EDT Subject: Re: Fire on Stage In a message dated 20/10/04 20:49:46 GMT Daylight Time, MissWisc [at] aol.com writes: > Frank asked: > > It has to do with the Iriquois Theatre fire where 600+ people died and > subesquent regulations. Don't know if GB has anything comparable. Certain > someone on the list will educate me. If I remember right, this was back in the early forties, or was that the Coconut Grove. I agree that it was a major disaster, and I think that it had to do with blocked or locked fire exits. It's now 2004. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <143.361c8b4a.2ea8455c [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:49:00 EDT Subject: Re: Fire on Stage In a message dated 20/10/04 21:02:57 GMT Daylight Time, marko [at] email.arizona.edu writes: > A few years ago, when I did Grapes of Wrath, We used real fire for the > production in La Jolla. It was a fire box with propane, and an electric > match. What a PITA. When we played in London, at the NT, In pre > production, the mere suggestion of fire about got us knocked out on > our ass. Last time I checked, London was on the same side of the pond > as you. And that was about 15 years ago. You surprise me greatly. Perhaps your procedures were wrong. Real fire on stage is hedged about with safety procedures, and yours may not have conformed to the rules. Perhaps the rules have changed. 15 years ago, the LCC rules applied, and they were very restrictive. Nowadays, th rules are looser. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:55:52 EDT Subject: Re: Fire on Stage In a message dated 20/10/04 21:21:20 GMT Daylight Time, tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com writes: > Didn't London have a great fire in it's history. Yes. In 1666, half the city was burned to the ground. > > Didn't London theatre have a relatively historical > fire a few hundred years back. Can't recall for > sure, but wasn't it "Henry the 8th" and an incident > with some cannon fire. Shakespeare and Burbage's theatre was burnt to the ground, thanks to cannon fire. More recently, so was the Royal Opera House. Until the advent of electric lighting, theatrical fires were not unusual. > > Curious minds would like to know. > > Steve Frank Wood ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien) From: Mark O'Brien Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:08:18 -0700 On Oct 20, 2004, at 3:49 PM, FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: >> A few years ago, when I did Grapes of Wrath, We used real fire for >> the >> production in La Jolla. It was a fire box with propane, and an >> electric >> match. What a PITA. When we played in London, at the NT, In pre >> production, the mere suggestion of fire about got us knocked out on >> our ass. Last time I checked, London was on the same side of the pond >> as you. And that was about 15 years ago. > > You surprise me greatly. Perhaps your procedures were wrong. Real fire > on > stage is hedged about with safety procedures, and yours may not have > conformed to > the rules. Perhaps the rules have changed. > > 15 years ago, the LCC rules applied, and they were very restrictive. > Nowadays, th rules are looser. Actually, what I was getting at was.... Fire- done that, took precautions, got away with it several times. If the rules have gotten looser, that is irrelevant. Fake fire anymore is allot more convincing, so why go to the trouble, or _potential_ harm, when it is just plain easier to do it otherwise? > Mark O'Brien Opera Technical Director University of Arizona, School of Music Tucson, AZ 520/621-7025 520/591-1803 Mobile ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4176FDA4.8000704 [at] fuse.net> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:07:00 -0400 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Re: Fire on Stage References: In-Reply-To: Ron Owens wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I have a director wanting to start a fire in a small trashcan on stage; this > is for the play Getting Out by Marsha Norman. I'm thinking this is not a > great idea. > > Would anyone out there who has faced this question before be willing to > share some advice? > > Thanks! > > I just built this effect for a 55 gallon drum fire... An MR-16 lamp set about 18" deep in the barrel, set at right angles and above the lamp was a small muffin fan, and strips of mylar were attached to the top of the fan. All parts were 12 volt with a battery buried in the barrel. The fan flutters the mylar strips in the beam of the light and causes a random flicker in the light on the edges of the barrel and the people around it. Gel strips could also be substituted for the mylar to create flickering colors instead of just intensities. Stuart ------------------------------ Message-ID: <016601c4b70a$b2415ac0$d39e1518 [at] DonTaco> From: "Don Taco" References: Subject: Re: Gel Cutting Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:10:03 -0700 > >> > By a show of hands, how many of you have a paper cutter or >> other such >> > implement dedicated to cutting gel? >> >> We do. It's a 26" wide cutter with a rotary blade. > > I have a small 10" cutter that I use when working in theaters that have > none. > > We tear the gel by hand against the edge of a handy table or doorframe, usually after starting the cut with our teeth. It's much faster than puzzling out where the previous group of volunteers might have left the utility knives. ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <149.36373d9d.2ea8709a [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:53:30 EDT Subject: Re: Gel Cutting In a message dated 10/20/04 9:10:59 PM, taco [at] peak.org writes: << We tear the gel by hand against the edge of a handy table or doorframe, usually after starting the cut with our teeth. It's much faster than puzzling out where the previous group of volunteers might have left the utility knives. >> back in the Roscolene days, , I could often get a clean cut by sliping the corner of a full sheet into a 7 .5" or 10" frame, , hopefully one with a bit of a "point" on the corner and get a good clear tear by holding down the metal frame and pulling against it, , when we went to ROSCOLAR that became more difficult, , , with ROSCO LUX, , impossible very best, Keith Arsenault President IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41A01644.4040304 [at] earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 22:15:00 -0600 From: Kyle Dugger Subject: Re: Mac 2k reset, was coffee pot library References: > > > >Found (by my wife, actually) in a recent catalog...a sign that reads >"Sarcasm. Just another service we provide." > >Sound like a list motto, anyone? > > > Sharpie - $2 rosco gel sheet - $5 clear com pack - $300 backstage sarcasm - priceless ------------------------------ Message-ID: <417744CE.CCDADB46 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 01:10:38 -0400 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: Fire on Stage References: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 20/10/04 20:49:46 GMT Daylight Time, MissWisc [at] aol.com > writes: > > > Frank asked: > > > > It has to do with the Iriquois Theatre fire where 600+ people died and > > subesquent regulations. Don't know if GB has anything comparable. Certain > > someone on the list will educate me. > > If I remember right, this was back in the early forties, or was that the > Coconut Grove. I agree that it was a major disaster, and I think that it had to do > with blocked or locked fire exits. > > It's now 2004. > > Frank Wood Here in the Boston area, with the Coconut Grove nightclub fire back in the forties. ( The culprits were a combination of locked and unmarked fire escapes, and flammable decorations tacked to the walls and ceiling. ) Now the Station Nightclub fire just last year ( Where the culprits were poorly marked fire escapes and flammable materials stapled to the walls. ) less than a hundred miles away. Anything involving a live fire on stage would be looked upon with grave disapproval by the fire marshals and the insurance companies. Boston has a very strict fire code, and the fire marshals have the authority to close the show, and are not at all reluctant to do so. --Dale ------------------------------ From: "Occy Occy" Subject: Re: Gel Cutting Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 23:24:57 -0700 Message-ID: Why do that just tape the sheet to the yoke and just move it up or down when it burns a hole in it. > We tear the gel by hand against the edge of a handy table or doorframe, >usually after starting the cut with our teeth. >It's much faster than puzzling out where the previous group of volunteers >might have left the utility knives. > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #169 *****************************