Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.5) with PIPE id 4780270; Sat, 23 Oct 2004 03:01:22 -0700 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.5 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #172 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 03:01:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.0 (2004-09-13) on prxy.net X-Spam-Level: X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #172 1. Re: Advice from "Dad" by Steve Larson 2. Re: College Production Budgets by Steve Larson 3. Re: Fire on Stage by "Christopher Sprague" 4. Re: C7 bulb=candelabra base? by Stephen Litterst 5. Re: College student-directed show budgets by Jim Ream 6. Re: Advice from "Mom" Re: Amateur/professional/academic by "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" 7. Lighting Shakespeare by Stan Pressner 8. Re: College student-directed shows by "Paul Schreiner" 9. Trying to unsubscribe by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 10. Re: Trying to unsubscribe by Steve Larson 11. Re: Trying to unsubscribe by "Jon Ares" 12. Re: College Production Budgets by "Stephen E. Rees" 13. Re: Fire on Stage by "Bill Conner" 14. Re: Fire on Stage by "Bill Conner" 15. Re: Trying to unsubscribe by Stephen Litterst 16. Re[2]: Power Issue by "Frank E. Merrill" 17. Re: Fire on Stage by "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" 18. Re: Fire on Stage by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 19. Re: Standard Voltages Sensor Dimmers by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 20. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 21. Re: Fresnel Replacement Recommendations by "Paul Schreiner" 22. FW: Camper Van Beethoven gear stolen by "Paul Schreiner" 23. Re: Fresnel Replacement Recommendations by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 24. Life as a Scenic Artist by James Feinberg 25. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by Richard Niederberg 26. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by "Paul Schreiner" 27. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 28. Re: Life as a Scenic Artist by Pat Kight 29. Re: Fresnel Replacement Recommendations by "Michael S. Eddy" 30. Re: Life as a Scenic Artist by "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" 31. Re: Fresnel Replacement Recommendations by Samuel Jones 32. Re: Fresnel Replacement Recommendations by Samuel Jones 33. Re: College student-directed shows by Mick Alderson 34. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 35. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 36. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by Dale Farmer 37. Re: A cautionary tale by davin pickell 38. Re: Fire on Stage by Andy Ciddor 39. Fake Snow by "Jonathan Wills" 40. Re: College student-directed shows by MissWisc [at] aol.com 41. Re: Trying to unsubscribe by Noah Price 42. Re: Fire as stage illumination by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:45:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Advice from "Dad" From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 10/21/04 8:05 PM, MissWisc [at] aol.com at MissWisc [at] aol.com wrote: > don't diss your current show/employer. Exactly! This entertainment world is much too small to think that you can talk about anyone and not get repercussions later in life. It may not be for two years or 20 years, but things you say or do may, and often do, come back to haunt you. Do the best you can at your job, be supportive of your co-workers and bosses. I work in a city where for most of the actors and technicians, the current show that they are in is the "only" good show in town. I refuse to get involved in petty fighting about this theatre or that theatre, this director or that director. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:47:40 -0400 Subject: Re: College Production Budgets From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: $1000 for makeup. Every actor should buy their own makeup kit. That grand would certainly bolster one of the other line items. Steve on 10/21/04 9:43 PM, Stephen E. Rees at Rees [at] fredonia.edu wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Here, it varies. There are the department produced shows in two > different venues, 400 seat proscenium and 150 seat black box. There is > also a Student Association supported group that does two major shows > and two "experimental" works in the black box. > > Dept: Total for 5 show season which is Midsummer, Fantasticks, Dearly > Departed, Deathtrap and Barnum. Scenery is $11,500 less ~10% that I've > held back for contingency. Props is $1900 for the season less about > ~15% contingency, Costumes $9000 for the season and I don't control this > line. Light/Sound is ~$5600 total. Makeup is about $1000 for the season. > Dept. lives off its box office receipts. No outside funding. > > Student Ass'n: about 1100 per major show all areas. Experimentals are > well under $500 total all areas. Funded from student activity fees. > > Steve Rees,TD > SUNY- Fredonia > > > MissWisc [at] aol.com wrote: >> For the college teachers on the list... what are typical amounts for budgets >> for student productions at your campus? >> >> Kristi > > > > ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:27:06 -0500 From: "Christopher Sprague" Subject: Re: Fire on Stage It's been an interesting thread to follow. I think one of the biggest reasons that fire on stage has become less common is more and more producers are aware of the liabilities associated with fire on stage since the fires in New England and Chicago. I can speak from experience that our local AHJ has been much more stringent about the requirements and documentation surrounding our pyro needs. It has expanded to the point that we will cut pyro from a show due to the cost associated with having a standby fire marshall onsite every night, permit fees and similar. And we have two state licensed pyrotechnicians on our crew! In terms of historical contexts, it's not like NFPA 101 is the only code that has items incorporated into it based on historical examples. Frankly, I can't really think of any code that doesn't have some historical event/precedent that led to the current code's implementation. Those of you who sit on these code committees are taking the opportunity to improve the safety and work conditions for everyone and not just on the job. I guess my point is that while there are very real dangers with fire on stage, there are also clear rules and guidelines for how to present fire on stage safely. I don't know how to address the concerns of smaller companies/groups who don't have the resources/access to the professional pyrotechinican. It's a very real problem, God knows I did some stupid stuff when I was coming up through the ranks that I wouldn't dream of doing now. Luckily, no one got hurt and nothing caught on fire, but not everyone is that fortunate. So to those of you who don't know the first thing about fire effects, don't try to do it yourself - call someone - call your AHJ, the local union hall, someone. These folks can help you out and at least explain the dangers and costs of trying something with fire. Sorry if I rambled, but felt like I had to add my two bits.... Back to lurking and a 50th Season opening this evening! Chris ***** Christopher D. Sprague -Associate Technical Director/Safety Manager Houston Grand Opera -713.546.0209 Office -713.236.1533 FAX -713.252.7769 Cell >>> psyd [at] cox.net 10/21/04 10:59PM >>> And there it is. Who was it that said, "Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it"? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:57:51 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: C7 bulb=candelabra base? Message-id: <417911DF.A29188DF [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: Jon Ares wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > > Greetings all.... is the threading / base of a C7 Christmas bulb the same > as the candelabra base? I want to outfit gazillions of sockets on Christmas > strings with a more 'globe' (or "G" series) bulb. Tanks everyone! Yes. We use the same sockets with our C7s and G16.5s. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <96775A7A-2433-11D9-9A92-003065738936 [at] uindy.edu> From: Jim Ream Subject: Re: College student-directed show budgets Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:06:37 -0500 At our university, a student directed, department supported and promoted production in our black box, will be budgeted between $200 and $500. The department covers royalties, ticket costs and stock shop materials and similar items. A "Senior Project" would get the higher figure and usually use the $500 to cover additional lumber, cloth, and supplies not in stock or "left over" from a recent production, gels, props, new paint (they can use anything in stock-within reason) and any special expenses related to the production. At $200 a sophomore or junior directing project has some budget to work with but it gets used up very quickly. Of course, students are welcome, and encouraged to schedule the space and present their own productions independent of the department but they are busy enough in classes and local theatres that that doesn't happen often. Jim Ream ------------------------------ Message-ID: <886EF25AF8BEF64EB89A820EF84064FF099D5586 [at] UCMAIL4> From: "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" Subject: RE: Advice from "Mom" Re: Amateur/professional/academic Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:12:25 -0400 Nice post Kristi... And very true. Steve Waxler Technical Director College Conservatory of Music University of Cincinnati -----Original Message----- From: MissWisc [at] aol.com [mailto:MissWisc [at] aol.com] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:06 PM To: Stagecraft Cc: squeakypig [at] earthlink.net Subject: Advice from "Mom" Re: Amateur/professional/academic For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- To paraphrase Thumper in Bambi, "If you can't say somethin' nice, don't say anything at all." When asked point blank "What do you think of the show?" a pregnant pause and "It's... interesting..." along with a forced smile will tell the listener everything they need to know. Find SOMETHING to be positive about and rave about Kristi ------------------------------ Message-Id: <8560A881-2436-11D9-BDD3-000A9571A8CA [at] verizon.net> From: Stan Pressner Subject: Lighting Shakespeare Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:27:36 -0400 I have been doing extensive research on how the original great hall premieres of Shakespeare's plays might have been lit for Shakespeare's Globe in London. They are touring with a Great Hall set that we would use this for. Early results seem to say that a minimum of 300 candles would have been used, a combination of beeswax and tallow. It seems that there was a combination of chandeliers and sconces. I am currently working on a simulation using City theatrical's candles that Blackfriars may be interested in. Please contact me for more info. Best, Stan Pressner ------------------------------ Subject: RE: College student-directed shows Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:29:56 -0400 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A74AD20 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" > For the college teachers on the list... what are typical=20 > amounts for budgets=20 > for student productions at your campus? Depends on the production. Our student showcase production is done on a shoestring using whatever we have lying about; mainstage shows get about $6-10K apiece, depending on need. It also depends on the type of institution. RMWC is a private college, and our departmental budget is substantially less than what I had to work with at my former employer, which was a state-funded school (and gave us a production budget of about $35K for four shows...plus a $13K facility upkeep budget and a departmental operating budget on top of that). ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1d6.2e157b6c.2eaa78eb [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:53:31 EDT Subject: Trying to unsubscribe OK. I've tried to unsubscribe the normal way, but it doesn't seem to be working. I'm getting mail to both the AOL account and my sapsis-rigging.com account. I really want to drop the AOL account. Help! I'm drowning in electrons. Bill S. Sapsis Rigging, Inc. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile We stand behind, and under, our work. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:56:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Trying to unsubscribe From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Try thinking "positively". Steve on 10/22/04 10:53 AM, Bsapsis [at] aol.com at Bsapsis [at] aol.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > OK. I've tried to unsubscribe the normal way, but it doesn't seem to be > working. I'm getting mail to both the AOL account and my sapsis-rigging.com > account. I really want to drop the AOL account. Help! I'm drowning in > electrons. > > Bill S. > > Sapsis Rigging, Inc. > www.sapsis-rigging.com > 800.727.7471 > 800.292.3851 fax > 267.278.4561 mobile > We stand behind, and under, our work. > > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003601c4b847$def3e090$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Trying to unsubscribe Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:00:29 -0700 > I really want to drop the AOL account. Help! I'm drowning in > electrons. > > Bill S. AOL=Borg Email. You have been assimilated. Resistance is futile. -- Jon Ares Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts www.hevanet.com/acreative http://www.wlhs.wlwv.k12.or.us/aresj/theatre/index.htm ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41792312.3090409 [at] fredonia.edu> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:11:14 -0400 From: "Stephen E. Rees" Subject: Re: College Production Budgets References: Steve, They do. The budget is for such things as prosthetics, masks, etc that are not typically found in an actor's kit. It does not always get completely expended either. Steve Steve Larson wrote: > > $1000 for makeup. Every actor should buy their own > makeup kit. That grand would certainly bolster one > of the other line items. > > Steve > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003701c4b84a$de3a7440$4b01010a [at] schulershook.net> From: "Bill Conner" Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:21:55 -0500 Digesting--- Stephen Rees: I agree that economic reasons - greed really - is still the greatest impediment to safety. I do believe however that in this age of communication we are better off in that it is possible to learn from the experience of others more easily. Sad that some are such poor learners. Steve L: It's well understood that people almost always try to egress towards the entrance they are familiar with. The do not move towards the fire. The door you mention was only a few feet from one of the ignition sources and was blocked by road gear; I suspect intentionally so the performers had their own way in an out. (This was a very small building. I visited the site right after the fire and sometime later; have been the audience for numerous presentations by NFPA fire investigators; and have had the responsibility of reviewing hundreds of pages of documents in my role as a member of the Assembly Occupancy Technical Committee for the NFPA.) Better marking and illumination might have helped but it would also have required motivating occupants to move towards the source of smoke and heat - a tough thing to do with expert crowd management and nearly impossible without. On the other hand, had the fire been at the main entrance, fire experience shows that occupants would still try to egress in that direction rather than look for or utilize an unfamiliar means of egress. Regardless - in my opinion - the pyro and it's misuse were still the single most important cause and without it, no news, and it was poor management which allowed it - management motivated by greed. Steve L. (again): I appreciate the list of theatre fires and certainly don't want to mineralize the danger in fire in present day theatres but a lot has changed since the 1800's - dubbed the Age of Theatre Fires by my colleague Jack Bogan. While the 150+ linesets all hung with oil painted linen drops from wooden battens (er - barrels? pipes?) on petroleum treated hemp over the stage of the Iroquois was not uncommon then, we can't afford that much now. Sprinklers are common and generally required. The combustibility of construction materials and finishes and furniture are regulated. Doors unlatch easily and swing outward (as long as the chains are removed). And the general density of seats per unit area is much less. Perhaps most importantly, open flame and arc sources of illumination gave way to the light bulb and catastrophic theatre fires virtually stopped. We have made progress. Unfortunately, short memories and greed allowed a new ignition source - pyro - back onto stages - and fires have again taken lives in places of assembly. Frank W: "As I implied, our fire codes should not be constrained by historical events." Someone else: "Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it." (or should "DOOMed" be uppercase on this board?) Dr Doom: There are many incipient fires on stages: torches; waste baskets or cans; a curtain leg draped on a shin kicker (I've twice extinguished those with a mop bucket); an ellipsoidal buried in a border; and so on. In practically all of the reported incidents I know of, either the place was unoccupied or quick action by a stage hand took care of it. (Since a lot of these are modern stage luminaries against fabric, should we all use heat borders more?) This hazard is still very present so we must remain vigilant and proactive and continue to tell people about it. Off to Wisconsin for a weekend of camping. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003f01c4b84d$de0923b0$4b01010a [at] schulershook.net> From: "Bill Conner" Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:43:24 -0500 Dale: "Thus the first major failure at The Station Nightclub fire was the misuse of pyro. It could have just as easily been a light leaning against a curtain or sterno can tipping over." It **could** have but the same week there were at least two other club fires reported where pyro was the ignition source. Perhaps it's just a coincidence but I think somehow three 15' fountain of sparks and flame in different locations and all rigged to ignite at one time by intention is a somewhat greater hazard than a can of sterno tipping over or a cigarette butt. The latter two I would probably stomp on to extinguish. Somehow, the idea of stomping on pyro doesn't seem so easy even if the bouncers would let you get to it. I agree that arson is a problem in this industry. Fortunately, they seem to be cowards and generally come around when the building is unoccupied. If society is to hold tobacco companies responsible for the effects of using their products then it seems reasonable that pyro manufacturers also be held accountable. (And I wager they probably will to some degree in the case of the Station.) Respectfully, Bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:48:16 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Trying to unsubscribe Message-id: <41792BC0.A5A07D05 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: Jon Ares wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > > > I really want to drop the AOL account. Help! I'm drowning in > > electrons. > > > > Bill S. > > AOL=Borg Email. You have been assimilated. Resistance is futile. < Herrick > PRG Bought AOL, too? Figured I'd post this in Herrick's place since he's busy in Lost Wages. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:55:54 -0500 From: "Frank E. Merrill" Message-ID: <1722955070.20041022105554 [at] TCON.net> Subject: Re[2]: Power Issue In-Reply-To: References: Howdy! Thursday, October 21, 2004, Greg Persinger wrote: GP> I agree that common neutrals are a no no and that it is very easy GP> for a common neutral to be overloaded. What I am a little unclear GP> on is why it would have such an effect on the connectors. Drat. I hate it when I don't indent for paragraph. I apologize for not separating my theories to Mr. Immel's dimmer overheating query. The first theory was common neutrals generating a phase imbalance which in turn overloads the neutral. The second theory, not necessarily related, was that high resistance caused by poorly maintained split pins would also generate heat. The two situations together would cause even more problems...kinda like constructive interference between wave patterns, but that engenders a whole 'nuther discussion. Tee hee hee.... Best regards, Frank E. Merrill MERRILL STAGE EQUIPMENT Eastablished 1946 Indianapolis 317: 255 4666 Running The Bat! Natural e-mail system v3.0 mailto:Lamplighter [at] TCON.net ------------------------------ Message-ID: <886EF25AF8BEF64EB89A820EF84064FF099D5679 [at] UCMAIL4> From: "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" Subject: RE: Fire on Stage Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:01:07 -0400 Bill. Just be careful with the campfire! Steve Waxler Technical Director College Conservatory of Music University of Cincinnati Off to Wisconsin for a weekend of camping. Bill ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:23:31 EDT Subject: Re: Fire on Stage In a message dated 21/10/04 23:47:08 GMT Daylight Time, slitterst [at] ithaca.edu writes: > > > Some of those "modern fire precautions" are the very policies we're > > > advocating here. > > > > I doubt that.This is the year 2004. Things have changed, and we should > > recognise that. > > Curtailing the use of flammable materials on stage. Common sense now, > maybe. But certainly a "modern fire precaution" predicated by a few > of the aforementioned cases. > > Clearly marked exits. Same thing. > > Easily accessible and *openable* exits. See above. These, and many others, all stem from catastrophes. All I am doing is to question whether they have outlived their usefulness. Nowadays, we have ways of flameproofing scenery and costumes, plentiful extinguishers and crew trained in their use, and fire curtains. We have, I hope, stage crews who will react quickly and appropriately to any emergency. The three you cite have not, in my opinion. In particular, those relating to exits. UK rules require not only exits from the auditorium, but the whole exit paths to safe assembly areas to be clearly marked and lit. But it is now allowed for smoke doors to be held open by magnetic latches, released by the fire alarm system. Just one instance of change. Certainly, the surest way of not being involved in a road accident is never to go out. To me, blanket bans on naked flames on stage fall into the same class of advice. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <12b.4e219b07.2eaa9ed8 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:35:20 EDT Subject: Re: Standard Voltages Sensor Dimmers In a message dated 22/10/04 00:28:19 GMT Daylight Time, alderson [at] uwosh.edu writes: > >Bear in mind, too, that most AC meters are set to give an RMS measurement > >when reading a sine wave. With non-sinusoidal waveforms such as dimmers > >produce, > >there will be a reading error. How much and which way, I don't know, as it > >will depend on the meter. > > > > I know this is true when you've actually dimmed a circuit, because the wave > is chopped by the dimming process. But if a dimmer is running at "full", > wouldn't the resulting wave be close enough to a sine wave for a standard > AC meter to be fairly accurate? The amount of wave clipping would be > negligible. In the case we've been discussing, we are talking about a line > lose from 120 VAC to 115 VAC, but that is a resistive drop from the circuit > wire, so the wave at the outlet would be slightily lower in amplitude but > otherwise the same form as when it left the dimmer. Logic says that is near > enough to a true sine wave to still read fairly close to accurate. Probably, but not certainly. And some meters can handle this. What astonishes me is the huge line losses you tolerate. Even with your heavier currents, they seem excessive. 2% is a normal maximum, for us in the UK, but a 10% loss doesn't sem to surprise you. That takes a lamp down to 80% output. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1a3.2ae1f36b.2eaaa0b8 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:43:20 EDT Subject: Re: Fire as Stage Illumination In a message dated 22/10/04 01:44:13 GMT Daylight Time, ladesigners [at] juno.com writes: > At least they are not considering doing shows from an era where powdered > lime placed in hooded tin can bottoms, and ignited, was the norm. > /s/ Richard This is nonsense. A 'limelight' was an oxy-hydrogen flame heating a block of quicklime. It gave a high intensity point source, well suited to the optics of a follow-spot. Lime is non-flammable. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Fresnel Replacement Recommendations Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:49:30 -0400 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A74AD22 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" > I am a big fan of ETC Source Fours and S4 PARs, but run the=20 > other way from the PARnel. It is neither a good PAR or a good=20 > Fresnel. Take a look for yourself, but the spot to flood=20 > range is limited and the double lenses eat a lot of light.=20 I wouldn't go so far as to suggest "running away" from the PARnel. While I agree with you that there is a small but noticeable loss of output due to the lens structure, and that the flood isn't flooded enough, the advantages of the unit tend to (depending on the use) at least balance out the shortcomings. Being able to stock a fewer number of lamp varieties is one small one; another (more important) is the more uniform color temperature across the instrument inventory. You can mix and match better with the PARnel than you can with S4 PARs and traditional fresnels. The light output is close to that of a 1K fresnel, but most of the fresnels I've played with that can handle that sort of load are 8" units...and those tend to have a much smaller beam angle than the PARnel (which is closer to that of the 6" fresnel, but most of those I've seen are only rated to 750W). All in all, I find them a mixed bag. If I didn't have it in the budget to replace my fresnel inventory with Selecons, I'd probably go with the PARnels instead... ------------------------------ Subject: FW: Camper Van Beethoven gear stolen Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:53:08 -0400 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A74AD23 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" Thought I'd pass this along from Theatre-Sound... -----Original Message----- Camper Van Beethoven Gear stolen, Merch stolen - HELP! I just got this message from Jonathan Segel - and confirmed by phone with David Lowery as they were headed down to the police station. Get the word out about all this as fast as possible! If you have info, email me: john [at] cursion [dot] com Or better yet - contact the Montreal Police. Message from Jonathan: all of camper van beethoven's guitars and violin and our merch got stolen last night in montreal. if anybody has any contacts up here, tell them to look for our stuff in stores. or hunt down the robbers and kill them. jonathan's violin with stickers all over it jonathan's 1971 strat (sunburst) (with a couple stickers, etc.)O victor's 1969 precision bass (natural finish) david's green charvel surfcaster david's black jackson surfcaster a couple ibanez acoustics johnny's black eric clapton strat greg's frankenstein strat (black) and tele (tobacco sunbusrst) (warmoth esp or something) plus mike duclos' precision bass and ezster balint's gibson sg and danelectro semi acoustic. maybe more.. not sure yet. a few tshirts and a road case of cds. including the email list we collected last night, preventing this from going out to montreal fans! ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Fresnel Replacement Recommendations Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:57:25 -0400 Message-ID: <000501c4b860$96e8d8f0$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > I wouldn't go so far as to suggest "running away" from the > PARnel. While I agree with you that there is a small but > noticeable loss of output due to the lens structure, and that > the flood isn't flooded enough, ...And the "spot" setting is more like a flood that happens to have a bright spot in the middle. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200410221809.i9MI96dM002942 [at] gryphon.auspice.net> Subject: Life as a Scenic Artist Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:09:06 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" at Oct 22, 2004 01:57:25 PM From: James Feinberg Sorry if this has already been mentioned. I'm stuck in tech, so I'm behind on my group reading. This week's San Diego Reader magazine has a fascinating article by Ken Scar, the assistant charge scenic artist at the Old Globe, about painting the Broadway-bound Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Ken talks not only about the process but also about the emotions involved in making theatre. I encourage everyone to read it. You can find it, for this week at least, at http://www.sdreader.com/ed/calendar/th/smith/ --James Feinberg University of San Diego ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:19:40 -0700 Subject: Re: Fire as Stage Illumination Message-ID: <20041022.112214.3176.4.ladesigners [at] juno.com> From: Richard Niederberg Dear Frank, I know. I was [apparently unsuccessfully] attempting to be humorous without giving ideas to potential terrorists who may be lurking! {Sorry} /s/ Richard > A 'limelight' was an oxy-hydrogen flame heating a > block of quicklime. It gave a high intensity point > source, well suited to the optics of a follow-spot. > Lime is non-flammable. > Frank Wood ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Fire as Stage Illumination Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:28:32 -0400 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A74AD24 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" > I know. I was [apparently unsuccessfully] attempting=20 > to be humorous without giving ideas to potential terrorists=20 > who may be lurking! {Sorry} /s/ Richard >=20 > > A 'limelight' was an oxy-hydrogen flame heating a > > block of quicklime. It gave a high intensity point=20 > > source, well suited to the optics of a follow-spot. > > Lime is non-flammable. Well, color me clueless. All this time, and it never even occurred to me til now that Frank was a potential terrorist! ;) ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Fire as Stage Illumination Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:36:22 -0400 Message-ID: <000e01c4b866$08061d90$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > Well, color me clueless. All this time, and it never even > occurred to me til now that Frank was a potential terrorist! ;) Well, the *rest* of us certainly knew! ------------------------------ Message-ID: <417953A3.5000808 [at] peak.org> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:38:27 -0700 From: Pat Kight Subject: Re: Life as a Scenic Artist References: In-Reply-To: James Feinberg wrote: > Sorry if this has already been mentioned. I'm stuck in tech, so I'm > behind on my group reading. > > This week's San Diego Reader magazine has a fascinating article > by Ken Scar, the assistant charge scenic artist at the Old Globe, > about painting the Broadway-bound Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. > > Ken talks not only about the process but also about the emotions > involved in making theatre. I encourage everyone to read it. You can > find it, for this week at least, at > http://www.sdreader.com/ed/calendar/th/smith/ Great article, although an editor was apparently asleep at the wheel and let "hombre" sneak in in where "ombre" belongs - repeatedly. -- Pat "picky, picky" Kight kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ From: "Michael S. Eddy" Subject: RE: Fresnel Replacement Recommendations Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:56:02 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Paul Schreiner said: All in all, I find them a mixed bag. If I didn't have it in the budget to replace my fresnel inventory with Selecons, I'd probably go with the PARnels instead...

I agree with Paul on the mixed bag aspect of the PARNel. (I still think the PARNel is too much of a compromise.) I did forget the Selecon Fresnels, which I think for the price are among the top choice for theatre Fresnels. I think that you will find that they are cheaper than the PARNel. I highly recommend looking at them. Barbizon and A.C.T Lighting are two of the US suppliers. Michael Eddy ------------------------------ Message-ID: <886EF25AF8BEF64EB89A820EF84064FF099D57CD [at] UCMAIL4> From: "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" Subject: RE: Life as a Scenic Artist Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:10:37 -0400 James, Thank you for sharing that wonderful article with us. Not only is it touching and real, it so well written. I have shared this with my faculty, staff and students. They, the students, need to know what is waiting for them out there. I hope it doesn't depress them too much. Steve Waxler Technical Director College Conservatory of Music University of Cincinnati -----Original Message----- From: James Feinberg [mailto:feinberg [at] sandiego.edu] Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 2:09 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Life as a Scenic Artist For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Sorry if this has already been mentioned. I'm stuck in tech, so I'm behind on my group reading. This week's San Diego Reader magazine has a fascinating article by Ken Scar, the assistant charge scenic artist at the Old Globe, about painting the Broadway-bound Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Ken talks not only about the process but also about the emotions involved in making theatre. I encourage everyone to read it. You can find it, for this week at least, at http://www.sdreader.com/ed/calendar/th/smith/ --James Feinberg University of San Diego ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:10:54 -0700 Subject: Re: Fresnel Replacement Recommendations From: Samuel Jones In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <190AEE36-245E-11D9-BDC0-000393BB489C [at] ucla.edu> I agree. I heard some negative reactions to PARnels, so I did an unscientific test. The ETC rep lent me a PARnel with a 750wt bulb, and I took it to a rental house, I tested this new PARnel against every kind of 1k Fresnel they had (3 inluding a "TV" light) and against a 2K Fresnel. It blew every 1k out of the water and was comparable and maybe a hair brighter than the 2k. I examined all the light and they seemed well maintained with clean lenses and well mounted, undamaged, and clean reflectors. I ordered a bunch of PARnels. My building renovation is behind schedule, so I can't tell you how it turned out, but I'm not worried. First, do the same test with lights you know. Second, as per the recommendation from the ETC rep be sure to use 750wt bulbs. Apparently, They do not do well with the 750s. HTH Sam Samuel L. Jones Theater Production Supervisor Dance Program, Dept. of World Arts and Cultures, UCLA sjones [at] arts.ucla.edu (310) 825-5823(w) (310) 993-4172(c) (310) 207-0392(h) ========================================================== On Friday, October 22, 2004, at 10:49 AM, Paul Schreiner wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > >> I am a big fan of ETC Source Fours and S4 PARs, but run the >> other way from the PARnel. It is neither a good PAR or a good >> Fresnel. Take a look for yourself, but the spot to flood >> range is limited and the double lenses eat a lot of light. > > I wouldn't go so far as to suggest "running away" from the PARnel. > While I agree with you that there is a small but noticeable loss of > output due to the lens structure, and that the flood isn't flooded > enough, the advantages of the unit tend to (depending on the use) at > least balance out the shortcomings. Being able to stock a fewer number > of lamp varieties is one small one; another (more important) is the > more > uniform color temperature across the instrument inventory. You can mix > and match better with the PARnel than you can with S4 PARs and > traditional fresnels. The light output is close to that of a 1K > fresnel, but most of the fresnels I've played with that can handle that > sort of load are 8" units...and those tend to have a much smaller beam > angle than the PARnel (which is closer to that of the 6" fresnel, but > most of those I've seen are only rated to 750W). > > All in all, I find them a mixed bag. If I didn't have it in the budget > to replace my fresnel inventory with Selecons, I'd probably go with the > PARnels instead... > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:16:39 -0700 Subject: Re: Fresnel Replacement Recommendations From: Samuel Jones In-Reply-To: Message-Id: PS: The Selecon Fresnel (new) was one of the Fresnels I tested. The PARnel was brighter. Can't recommend enough doing your own tests, but FWIW, that's what happened at my tests. BTW, as a Fresnel, I like the Selecon fixture alot. My tests got more light out of the PARnel, and at a dollar per lumen level, I think PARnels are a great deal. If you can afford ARRI Fresnels, get them; they make me drool. Sam Sameul L. Jones Theater Production Supervisor Dance Program, Dept. of World Arts and Cultures, UCLA sjones [at] arts.ucla.edu (310) 825-5823(w) (310) 993-4172(c) (310) 207-0392(h) ========================================================== On Friday, October 22, 2004, at 12:56 PM, Michael S. Eddy wrote: > I did forget the Selecon Fresnels, which I think for the price are > among the > top choice for theatre Fresnels. I think that you will find that they > are > cheaper than the PARNel. I highly recommend looking at them. Barbizon > and > A.C.T Lighting are two of the US suppliers. > > Samuel L. Jones ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:03:45 -0500 From: Mick Alderson Subject: Re: College student-directed shows In-reply-to: <7d.5b2dd014.2ea9b235 [at] aol.com> Message-id: Krist wrote: >Received a solication from my second Alma Mater asking for donations. As an >example of what $25 could buy they list: "Costuming, lighting, set design and >props for a student production at the Fredrich March Theater" > >Now Mic, I know you're REALLY good at what you do, but isn't that on the far >low end to finance all four of those areas? Did they even bother to ask >you or >Roy for a figure? Set DESIGN?? > That is rather lower than what we give them. Typically, I allocate the student-directed and -designed show about $250 for scenery, $70 for lighting, $100 for props, but what I TELL them is they have a budget of $200 for scenery, $50 for lighting, $75 for props. I use the difference as a contingeny fund, because they usually go over budget on that "big" item they put off doing until last! I don't know what they can spend for costumes, but mostly I believe they have to pull from stock, and then make a case for spending more on a case-by-case basis. The idea is to give students some money to play with, but not so much that they can proceed with abandon! Student productions are mostly done in our black-box theatre, so the balance I've given above works pretty well. The amounts available mean the designers must start with stock, but CAN do something specific for the show if they wish. They must work out the details themselves. The various designers can negotiate between each other if one area needs to go over budget, or ask me for a little more money for something special, and then I act as "beancounter" and make them justify what they want to do. They are usually first time designers, and the process gives them a taste of doing it "for real" on a scale that hopefully won't overwhelm them and burn them completely out. As for the solicitation; yeah, I got one, too, and nobody asked ME how much a show costs! ;-) Mick Alderson TD, Fredric March Theatre University of Wisconsin Oshkosh alderson [at] uwosh.edu ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <15.35dc87ee.2eaad1e3 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:13:07 EDT Subject: Re: Fire as Stage Illumination In a message dated 22/10/04 19:24:31 GMT Daylight Time, ladesigners [at] juno.com writes: > Dear Frank, > I know. I was [apparently unsuccessfully] attempting to be > humorous without giving ideas to potential terrorists who may be lurking! > {Sorry} > /s/ Richard My own apologies. But on safety and engineering, and chemistry, come to that, my sense of humour is limited. There is a sufficient number of ill informed folk out there who might believe such posts. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <103.52e45f3c.2eaad2b4 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:16:36 EDT Subject: Re: Fire as Stage Illumination In a message dated 22/10/04 19:29:02 GMT Daylight Time, pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu writes: > Well, color me clueless. All this time, and it never even occurred to > me til now that Frank was a potential terrorist! ;) Well, I suppose I am. I know how to make a bomb, and how to detonate it. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41798371.AD5F9EC0 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:02:25 -0400 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: Fire as Stage Illumination References: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 22/10/04 19:29:02 GMT Daylight Time, pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu > writes: > > > Well, color me clueless. All this time, and it never even occurred to > > me til now that Frank was a potential terrorist! ;) > > Well, I suppose I am. I know how to make a bomb, and how to detonate it. > > Frank Wood Just like everyone is a potential rapist, and a potential bank robber, and so on. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20041022231650.16744.qmail [at] web52609.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:16:50 -0700 (PDT) From: davin pickell Subject: Re: A cautionary tale In-Reply-To: Fred, [My apologies in advance for the length of this post. In a situation such as this, I am choosing accuracy rather than brevity.] I am writing in response to your cautionary tale, as the Theater Technician who was on duty at the Overture Center for the Arts (the $200 million + performing arts center that recently opened down the street from you) on the evening that the accident you spoke of happened. I am also writing as a member of this Stagecraft list, an IATSE stagehand, a concerned citizen, and also as your friend. As you might imagine, we’ve been quite busy around here all summer getting prepared for our Grand Opening Festival last month, which we pulled off splendidly, and received a tremendous amount of positive feedback from both the public who attended as well as the performers who filled our 9 day schedule of free and ticketed events. We’ve also been quite busy since then trying to finish the moving in process, and establish a routine in this new building, while also being fully engulfed in our fall schedule of shows. I’ll be the first to admit that we are not “there” yet, but I am personally working on getting us there, as is the rest of our staff. I’ve been so busy that I’ve yet to catch up on about five months of Stagecraft mailing list e-mails. As such, I did not catch your posting the other day, but heard of it through the grapevine. My initial reaction was negligible, inasmuch as I greatly applaud the efforts of this list to make this line of work safer for all of us, and did not see a problem with news being spread of this accident. Having now read your initial post, as well as the only response that it generated, I have to take exception to the tone of your post as well as some of your statements, which I find to be both disparaging as well as inaccurate. I think it is unfair to say that the Madison Repertory Theater borrowed an A-frame ladder from you because we don’t have enough to do basic production. We have several personnel lifts in the building, numerous ladders, as well as rolling scaffolding. By choice, we do not own an A-frame ladder. The Rep wanted to use one, and does not own one, so they borrowed one from you. The space in which the accident happened is a multi-function space, which is used for not only performances, but also rehearsals, banquets, parties, and the like. As such, we are taking protective measures to maintain the floor and wall finishes in a way that would be seen as ridiculous in a “performing space,” but make perfect sense given this room’s use. I, an employee of Overture, did not put towels on the legs of the ladder. As far as I know nobody on staff here at Overture put towels on the legs of the ladder. I presume that this was an idea that somebody [I have no idea who] came up with to simultaneously protect our floor from the ladder, and facilitate their need for speed, and was done by a Rep employee. Overture does not hire the Madison Rep’s staff, nor do we have any say in who they hire. I’ve been of the opinion for some time that it would be much safer if the Rep and other user groups were required to use trained IATSE stagehands. Unfortunately, they don’t. They use who they can afford to, i.e. college kids and others who can afford to work for the wages they offer. Such is the case for many theatre companies. One piece of equipment of ours that the Rep was using was a drivable personnel lift, which two of their employees had been authorized to use, and had used previously on other calls. An hour or so prior to the accident, I was asked if an additional employee could use the lift, who had not be previously approved, and had not previously used the lift. I confirmed my opinion with my supervisor, and told them that he could not use the lift. I feel awful that the accident happened. I sat down with their staff afterwards to discuss what had happened, and how it could have been prevented. The fact is, however, that the accident happened because somebody with little A-frame ladder experience was leaning out too far off the side of the ladder. The lesson to be learned here is that you should move your ladder to where you need to be, and you should not lean out as far as you can. The contributing factor to the accident was that the person footing/spotting her ladder walked away to do something else. The lesson to be learned here is that this person is not a luxury item. Another contributing factor to the accident was the towels taped to the legs of the ladder. The lesson to be learned here is that accessories added to a ladder to make it easier to slide are also going to make that ladder easier to tip. Fred, I apologize if I’ve mis-read your e-mail in any way. Given that the one response it generated did not dwell on safety, but seemed to continue what appeared to be a string of slams against Overture leads me to believe that I did not. I would encourage us all to use caution in the future when reporting on accidents, to try to stay focused on what we know are the facts surrounding the incident, and refrain from passing on any hearsay or other peripheral information which paints an incomplete picture. Having said this, I would like to remind all of us that this is a line of work with inherent danger. It is up to each and every one of us to try to minimize that danger. When given a choice between faster and safer, you’re not often going to regret choosing safer. Davin Pickell Member IATSE #251 Theater Technician Overture Center for the Arts P.S. Fred, I'm still a big fan of yours, and I still blame you for my child being such an advanced reader :) Have fun this weekend! ------------------------------ Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20041023105336.049d6ff0 [at] pop3.kilowatt.com.au> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:57:05 +1000 From: Andy Ciddor Subject: Re: Fire on Stage In-Reply-To: At 02:01 23.10.2004, Steve Waxler wrote: >Bill. Just be careful with the campfire! Don't worry - he's sure to be using 4 x MR16s and silk strips being blown by a small fan. All 12 volt of course, running from the battery in his SUV. Andy ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200410230121.i9N1Lkpq008076 [at] smtp-dtc02.proxy.aol.com> From: "Jonathan Wills" Subject: Fake Snow Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:21:46 -0400 Organization: Jonathan Wills I am hoping someone has heard of this. I have a customer who would like some fake snow. Easy right, the stuff he wants is/heard about is in the form of a powder and when wetted expands to look like snow. When the stuff dries out it returns to a powder form for storage. Anyone ever hear of anything like this? Thank you, Jonathan Wills Wills Lighting and Stage www.WillsLighting.com 423.432.8082 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.771 / Virus Database: 518 - Release Date: 9/28/2004 ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <20.35f7148d.2eab11a9 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:45:13 EDT Subject: Re: Re: College student-directed shows Cc: alderson [at] uwosh.edu Thank you Mick! I feel MUCH better. Kristi ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Noah Price Subject: Re: Trying to unsubscribe Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 23:13:57 -0700 On Oct 22, 2004, at 7:53 AM, Bsapsis [at] aol.com wrote: > OK. I've tried to unsubscribe the normal way, but it doesn't seem to > be > working. ... I've unsubscribed Bill manually -- it's best to email me if you have administrative problems, though :-) Much quicker response, since I often (like today!) go all day without reading the list messages, but I usually peek at my admin mail. For others who want to unsubscribe some day, the most common problem is not answering the confirmation message. Every list command, including unsubscribe, requires a confirmation reply. The list addresses get hit by spam and viruses every day, so you really don't want the list server to trust requests without confirmation. In Bill's case, this wasn't the problem -- his list command confirmations didn't reach his in box. They could be in the bulk or spam folders, or could simply have been dropped. I've confirmed that the list server is handing the message off to AOL, but Bill is not receiving the confirmation messages... Fortunately he should only get one copy of this :-) Thanks, Noah -- | Noah Price | http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ | | Stagecraft Mailing List | stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net | ------------------------------ From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com Message-ID: <111.3b08e7fa.2eab5cc7 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 03:05:43 EDT Subject: Re: Fire as stage illumination It has been some time since I studied theatre history, admittedly, but here are some responses to several comments on this thread: >a play mid-afternoon in an open roofed theatre thus >eliminating the need for ambient lighting.< At the Globe yes. However, the Blackfriars was an indoor, winter venue, on the opposite side of the Thames. >Fire was not used as illumination for public (as opposed to small >court entertainments) until Gas light was perfected, candles would >not be realistic....< Until the invention of a practical incandescent light bulb, ALL theatrical illumination was achieved by fire in one form or another. Candles were used extensively in renaissance theatre and there are several contemporary references and illustrations regarding ingenious ways of controlling the intensity and color of this source. Roman theatre made extensive use of torches. When the glass chimney was introduced to an oil lamp (a major technological breakthru) these were used in theatres. Gas was a major innovation when it became widely available and theatres where plumbed for it. (This is also the era of most of the major theatre fires.) The lighting positions we use to this day were first established for the placement of candles/oil lamps/gas flames. The lime light Frank referred to was the first practical source to provide the intensity necessary to form a spot light. It too was a flame. Even the carbon arc lights, using electricity, were essentially a "flame" where the carbon was consumed. >I don't think candles will be as bright enough for modern audineces to view a play.< The human eye is a very sensitive instrument of perception. Try turning out all the lights in a room without windows, wait a few moments and then light a candle. You'll be amazed at how much you can see. Having just been through several power outages, in a house with all the windows boarded up, we found it was possible to get by quite well with a single oil lamp. The design challenge, as always, is to create effective balances of light on stage. >i think they amount need to have enough light will add to heat of the room.< There will be some heat rise, but compared to a single FEL lamp, it would be negligible. The larger problem in a modern venue is the air conditioning drafts. Churches in general and weddings in particular suffer from uneven and rapid burning of candles under this artificial wind. It is unlikely that you could get your Authority Having Jurisdiction to allow an extensive use of live flame in an indoor place of public assembly. Aside from that detail, it is technically possible to light with candles. >Where can I look to compare lumen and heat output of lighting instruments to candles< See Dr Doom's comment. After all, measuring light in Foot-candles came about for a reason. Steve Vanciel Orlando, FL ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #172 *****************************