Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.6) with PIPE id 15845804; Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:42:00 -0800 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.6 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #271 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:41:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.5 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on prxy.net X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #271 1. Re: Strange question by "Paul Guncheon" 2. Re: three phase power by kim.hartshorn [at] plattsburgh.edu 3. Re: AutoCAD Layers/ Classes by "rufus" 4. Re: USITT Housing by "Scheu Consulting Services" 5. Re: Three Phase Power by "Chris Warner" 6. Re: Employment Qualifications (was: Strange questions) by "Alf Sauve" 7. Re: Three Phase Power by "Alf Sauve" 8. list form -- why i like digest by Theatre Safety Programs 9. Another Question by Danielle Maul 10. Subject: Re: Three Phase Power by "Thomas Shorrock" 11. Re: USITT Housing by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 12. Re: Three Phase Power by Mat Goebel 13. Re: Three Phase Power by "Joe Golden" 14. Painting a drop by "Josh Wirtz" 15. Re: Painting a drop by "Tony" 16. Re: Painting a drop by "Jon Ares" 17. Re: Painting a drop by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 18. Re: aluminum chlorhydrate by "Karl G. Ruling" 19. Re: Painting a drop by "Tony" 20. Re: aluminum chlorhydrate by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 21. Re: Painting a drop by Steve Larson 22. Re: Painting a drop by John McKernon 23. Re: Another Question by Kevin Holly 24. Re: Painting a drop by "Jon Ares" 25. Re: Painting a drop by "Tony" 26. Re: Another Question by "Jon Ares" 27. Re: tripping breaker on 3 phase by kim.hartshorn [at] plattsburgh.edu 28. lightline or fake neon by "John Hauer" 29. Re: lightline or fake neon by "Greg Potter" 30. Rated vs un-rated quick links by "Delbert Hall" 31. Re: 3 ph 1 transformer by "Riter, Andrew (Head Ltg)" 32. Re: Dressing room/green room dual paging by "Riter, Andrew (Head Ltg)" 33. Re: Dissimilar metals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 34. Re: Three Phase Power by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 35. Re: Three Phase Power by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 36. Re: Three Phase Power by "Tony" 37. Re: Three Phase Power by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 38. Re: Three Phase Power by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 39. Re: Dissimilar metals by "James Smith, Soundsculpture Incorporated" 40. Re: Strange question by Charlie Richmond 41. Re: lightline or fake neon by Nathan Kahn/Look Solutions 42. Re: Dressing room/green room dual paging by Tony Miller 43. Re: list form ("anyone else") by Mick Alderson 44. Re: Three Phase Power by Mick Alderson 45. Re: lightline or fake neon by Jeff Holt 46. Re: list form ("anyone else") by "David Bowman" 47. Re: lightline or fake neon by "Boyette, Glenn" 48. Re: list form ("anyone else") by Boyd Ostroff 49. Re: Three Phase Power by Mat Goebel 50. Education by CB 51. Looking for a contact in Budapest by "Fred Young" 52. Re: list form ("anyone else") by CB 53. Re: AutoCAD Layers/ Classes by Joe 54. Re: lightline or fake neon by Gregg Carville 55. Re: simultaneous cues in SFX by "jknipple" 56. Re: Dissimilar metals by Wood Chip-P26398 57. Dance Floor Roll Diameter by Cosmo Catalano 58. Re: Dance Floor Roll Diameter by Michael Heinicke 59. Re: Dissimilar metals by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 60. Re: lightline or fake neon by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 61. Re: Dissimilar metals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 62. Re: list form ("anyone else") by Greg Bierly 63. Re: Three Phase Power by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 64. Re: Three Phase Power by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 65. Re: Strange Question by Dale Farmer 66. Re: Strange Question by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 67. Re: Metamorphoses pool by Dale Farmer 68. Re: Three Phase Power by Scott D Trites 69. Re: Dissimilar metals by Dale Farmer 70. Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: Three Phase Power by Richard Wolpert 71. Carabiners by Michael Heinicke 72. Wood quality vs. distortion by Michael Heinicke 73. ANSI E1.11 -- USITT DMX512-A by Mitch Hefter 74. Re: ANSI E1.11 -- USITT DMX512-A by Jerry Durand *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <001b01c50214$29a5a450$0202a8c0 [at] MyLastPC> From: "Paul Guncheon" References: Subject: Re: Strange question Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:56:45 -1000 <> My favorite employment ad: "Tire changer wanted. Must be able to change tires." Laters, Paul "I don't know how much longer I'll need only three of my houses", said Tom forebodingly. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1106571153.41f4ef91d47bf [at] webmail.plattsburgh.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:52:33 -0500 From: kim.hartshorn [at] plattsburgh.edu Subject: re: three phase power References: In-Reply-To: Unless there is something completely new under the sun you cannot have all 3 phases coming into the building on one conductor. This would create a singnificant dead short at the connection. Three phase power originates at the generator itself where 3 separate field coils rotate through a magnetic field wound in such a manner that each coil gererates it's maximum voltage 120 degrees out of phase in respect to the other two coils. In any case, in order to transmit the power across great distances it is necessary to 'step up' the voltage into the 100k ranges so as to minimize the effect of voltage drop. (Voltage drop being a consistent amount/distance given a certain conductor material thus the percentage drop in voltage being much less at very high levels) Most commercial building are connected to the grid with a three phase tie-in often at whatever voltage the local utility is using at the substation level...maybe 600 Volts. So your typical academic building might have a main power connection of 600 volts 3 phase. In residential neighborhoods each phase will then be transformed to 120 volt line voltage through a center tap transformer...this is a transformer where the neutral is established at the center of the secondary coil making two hot legs at either end of the coil. Each of these legs are 180 degrees out of phase. Since both of these hot legs come from only a single original phase, these two hot legs are now called SINGLE phase 240, since connecting across both legs creates a voltage differential of 240 volts (120 volts either side of neutral) In a commercial building each phase is transformed to its 120 volt distribution voltage usually through a conventional transformer. So in a commercial building, connecting across two hot legs creates 208 Volts since the two phases are 120 degrees out of phase resulting in an average voltage differential of 208 volts. For lighting dimmers...all of this is neither here nor there since each individual dimmer in all modern systems functions as an individual 120 volt load regardless of the power tie in. Three phase 120, single phase 240 or single phase 120 it is simply a matter of distribution inside the box. In 3 phase each hot leg powers every third dimmer, in 2 phase 240 each hot leg powers every other dimmer and in 120 single phase the single hot leg powers every dimmer. There is really no such thing as a 3 phase dimmer. Hope this helps, these notes are really a layman's understanding, I am positive the gist is correct however. Kim ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "rufus" Subject: RE: AutoCAD Layers/ Classes Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:11:31 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I like the Named Views in LD Assistant or AutoCAD. Have all the layers on that you want to control. Next, under the dropdown menu VIEW, look for and click on Named Views... Now make a new name view and I think your in business. Please let me know if I can be of any help. Best regards, Rufus Warren III Voice 708-499-0107 Fax Line 708-499-0046 E-Mail rufus [at] design-drafting.com Web Site www.design-drafting.com autodesk authorized developer & partner HP authorized developer _____ -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Chris Wych Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 11:36 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: AutoCAD Layers/ Classes For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Does anyone know how to group together a bunch of Layers in AutoCAD so that I can click one thing and have a whole bunch of layers turn on or off. >From my understanding of Vectorworks, its much like vectorworks version of layers which are a grouping of classes. And im looking for the AutoCADs version of this. Thanks for the help Chris Wych ===== IL State U. Theatre Design Student a_small_idiot [at] yahoo.com ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ http://www.theatretechie.com ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Scheu Consulting Services" Subject: RE: USITT Housing Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:41:19 -0500 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Jason Tollefson wrote: > My wife and I are staying at the The Strathcona Hotel: =20 > http://www.thestrathconahotel.com/ >=20 > At $129 Canadian a night, it was much more affordable than=20 > the options that USITT was suggesting.=20 > It's also much closer than some of the hotels on USITT's=20 > list. The place looks good on the website but I've never=20 > stayed there so I can't vouch for its quality. Sorry. I'm a little late to this thread... I can vouch for the Strathcona. My wife and I stay there when seeing = shows or otherwise visiting Toronto. The rooms are a bit on the small size, = but overall, the hotel is very good and a fantastic value. Rooms are well appointed and clean, and the full "American Breakfast" (eggs, meats, potatoes, etc.) included in the price is very good. Parking is in a = public lot about a block away and runs about CAN$ 18.00 per day (at least last = time we were there). I would recommend it. Certainly beats the prices/value of the "Official" USITT hotels, and it truly is close to the convention center (about two blocks away). Walking distance to many restaurants, too. Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. www.scheuconsulting.com Tel: 315.422.9984 fax: 413.513.4966 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <01e201c5021c$1bb14770$6501a8c0 [at] chris> From: "Chris Warner" Cc: mgoebel [at] gmail.com (Mat Goebel) References: Subject: Re: Three Phase Power Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 05:53:39 -0800 Well Mat See Kim for an explination of how 3 Phase really works. To answer your question, it would appear that the 90A 3 Phase breaker is 30A per phase. I may be wrong but some simple math against the numbers tells me that at 30A per phase(HV side), the limit is around 110A(LV), and at the load you stated, tells me that you have loaded it to 133A which would push you over the limit on the 440V side. Of course I have also seen situations where the breakers were also bad, case in point, working with AC/DC inverters, I had an inverter that was connected to a 30A breaker, with MUCH less load than that attached, it would trip the input breaker when it would make the switch from running on inverter to running on utility. The breaker was replaced soon after and the problem suddenly disappeared. Just my .02. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mat Goebel" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 10:57 PM Subject: Three Phase Power > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I realise that anything regarding the care and feeding a power should > be referred to an electrician, but I am just trying to wrap my brain > around this from an end-user standpoint. > > I am using two 24 dimmer ETC Sensor Racks. These use three phase > power. Okay, fine. > > This three phase power comes from a transformer, which as I understand > it, separates the three phases of power from a single conductor on the > primary side to the three separate conductors on the secondary side. > The labels on the transformers (from memory) identify the HV side to > be 440v, and the LV side to be 208v. > > A 90A breaker energizes the transformer. > > The way I understand this, a single conductor having all 3 phase on it > at 440v comes into the panel. The 90A break straddles this leg to > neutral, limiting the current it carries to 90A or 39600 watts max. > > If this is the case, then why does this breaker trip when it has 16k > of lighting on it? > > > -- > Mat Goebel > Cell: 510.693.1448 > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <07fe01c5021d$12da4a10$0400a8c0 [at] ALFOFFICE> Reply-To: "Alf Sauve" From: "Alf Sauve" References: Subject: Re: Employment Qualifications (was: Strange questions) Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:52:45 -0500 My favorites are the law enforcement web sites that state: "Must not have reached 36 birthday on first day of employment" followed proudly by the EOE footer. "We are an equal opportunity employer and do not discriminate based on....... AGE......" Alf ------------------------------ Message-ID: <07ff01c5021d$12fa7c40$0400a8c0 [at] ALFOFFICE> Reply-To: "Alf Sauve" From: "Alf Sauve" References: Subject: Re: Three Phase Power Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:00:16 -0500 I don't think the power company "multiplexes" 3 phase power on one conductor. And pretty much no matter how you cut it there needs to be 2 conductors at a minimum. Also, a circuit breaker never "straddles" between the hot and the neutral, but is in "series" with the hot conductor. I think you may be overlooking some other conductors. Many 3 phase circuit breakers only have one handle, so it may appear. from the front panel that there is only one circuit/conductor but in reality there are three under the cover. In all likelihood what you have is a 440vac Delta to 208vac Wye transformer. You would have three conductors coming in and four going out (not including ground). To answer your question, we'd need to know more about how your system is wired. I suggest you find someone knowledgeable in your building/area to look at it and answer your question. Alf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mat Goebel" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 1:57 AM Subject: Three Phase Power > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I realise that anything regarding the care and feeding a power should > be referred to an electrician, but I am just trying to wrap my brain > around this from an end-user standpoint. > > I am using two 24 dimmer ETC Sensor Racks. These use three phase > power. Okay, fine. > > This three phase power comes from a transformer, which as I understand > it, separates the three phases of power from a single conductor on the > primary side to the three separate conductors on the secondary side. > The labels on the transformers (from memory) identify the HV side to > be 440v, and the LV side to be 208v. > > A 90A breaker energizes the transformer. > > The way I understand this, a single conductor having all 3 phase on it > at 440v comes into the panel. The 90A break straddles this leg to > neutral, limiting the current it carries to 90A or 39600 watts max. > > If this is the case, then why does this breaker trip when it has 16k > of lighting on it? > > > -- > Mat Goebel > Cell: 510.693.1448 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.2.20050124075033.0201cf18 [at] mail.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:59:25 -0700 From: Theatre Safety Programs Subject: list form -- why i like digest 1. On listservs which are not this active, I don't mind getting individual messages. Most of those lists are smaller and don't generate more than 20 messages a week, primarily forwarding of news articles by various members and meeting announcments. 2. I prefer to read once a day rather than continually get e-mails. Although many of us could set up filters, i am not sure if all e-mail programs, especially the free web-based ones could handle. 3. Those who get in digest have time to follow the discussion and reflect before we respond. Sometimes a simple question has already been answered and there is no reason to weigh in. Responses to several posts in a thread can be consolidated. If you get in digest, you are less likely to respond with a knee-jerk reaction or a brief response that doesn't really say much. 4. I think it saves space. When people don't edit down original threads and just hit reply, things can take up much space in multiple messages. 5. Many of us get stagecraft at home, but are at work all day. I read it once a day in digest, which to me is easier than going through multiple messages. I prefer to receive at home than at work. Jerry Gorrell ------------------------------ Message-Id: <73BC80EA-6E19-11D9-9023-000D933CFFEA [at] earthlink.net> From: Danielle Maul Subject: Another Question Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:05:57 -0500 Hello All- Well, I appear to have stepped in it on my previous question. (Teach me not to read the list more often.) And one answer to "Why digest at all?": my old mail program wouldn't filter my mail like that. I recently upgraded (3 months ago) and assume that my new one will do it, but now I'm used to it. Maybe I'll look into a new way of getting it. Scrolling through the digest gets old. So, my next question. I'm getting tired of freelancing and am thinking of the full time job route again. I haven't been delighted with the job sites I've been finding on the net. (The good sites seems to be for the opposite coast: California.) Trying to find a full time or freelance job with my qualifications on the net seems harder than it should be. It's been a while since I looked at this, but I thought it'd be better by now. IS the old way best? Or has someone seen something I missed? Thoughts on this? Danielle Maul Freelancing Too Long ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200501241514.j0OFE4Q05775 [at] bert.fau.edu> From: "Thomas Shorrock" Subject: Subject: Re: Three Phase Power Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:14:01 -0500 In-reply-to: > > > Are you SURE that the boxes on the walls are transformers? > Yes. They're actually on the ground,and are each labelled 'dry > transformer'. They make loud humming noises when energised. There are > only two breakers. There are no other breakers. Breakers to > transformer to dimpack ratio is 2:2:2. Each breaker is labeled 90A. > The diagram on the transformer clearly shows one primary coil and > three secondary coils, as well as the resultant delta power > configuration. > > > Is the Sensor rack the only thing fed from this incoming feed? > Yes, this was installed specifically for the lighting system. Its all > in the same room so I can actually see where everything is going. > > > Are you sure that the rack is cabled in 3-phase? > Yes. 3 phase 5 wire coming via camlocs. Could you have a leg imbalance? Worked in a theatre once where the A leg was the entire front of house, C leg was all of the downstage, and B was floor pockets. We kept throwing breakers on big lights up cues because the B leg was acting like a neutral to A and C legs. ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:14:20 GMT Subject: Re: USITT Housing Message-Id: <20050124.071500.2611.72943 [at] webmail22.lax.untd.com> Yes, but please note that staying at one of the 'official' hotels subsidizes the Institute, normally in the form of free meeting rooms. /s/ Richard Certainly beats the prices/value of the "Official" USITT hotels, Peter Scheu ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:24:07 -0800 From: Mat Goebel Reply-To: Mat Goebel Cc: alf [at] sauve.org (Alf Sauve) Subject: Re: Three Phase Power In-Reply-To: References: Starting to make more sense.... Does the dimmer-rack distribute it's load evenly across the 3 legs or is it up to me? If this isn't the case, how do I know which dimmmer is on which leg? -- Mat Goebel Cell: 510.693.1448 ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Three Phase Power Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 07:32:36 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Joe Golden" If you remove the modules WITH THE POWER OFF, you will see copper plates on the left side that supply power to the modules. There was a post in the last month that listed how the phasing is broken down. IIRC your 90A breaker if it is on the supply side of the transformer and not the load/dimmer side should give you about 200A per phase. HTH Joe > Starting to make more sense.... >=20 > Does the dimmer-rack distribute it's load evenly across the 3=20 > legs or is it up to me? If this isn't the case, how do I know=20 > which dimmmer is on which leg? >=20 > --=20 > Mat Goebel > Cell: 510.693.1448 >=20 ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:42:07 -0600 From: "Josh Wirtz" Subject: Painting a drop I am painting a drop for the first time, and could use some help. I have purchased a pre made muslin drop. After stretching it on a frame, do I need to put size on it, and prime it? Can I just paint it, and won't the paint effectively work as a size? Many thanks, Josh Wirtz ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1cc401c5022d$8ae82260$0800000a [at] Tony> From: "Tony" References: Subject: Re: Painting a drop Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:58:21 -0000 Have painted only a handful of cloths myself, but here's my 10 penn'orth. Use powder paints, and mix in a little size when preparing the paint. Failure to do this will render the paint brittle and flaky after a while and the paint will start coming off. One thing I'd say NOT to do is use emulsion paint - big mistake some amateur co's have made and has all sorts of short and long term problems! Ynot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Wirtz" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 3:42 PM Subject: Painting a drop > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I am painting a drop for the first time, and could use some help. I > have purchased a pre made muslin drop. After stretching it on a frame, > do I need to put size on it, and prime it? Can I just paint it, and > won't the paint effectively work as a size? > > Many thanks, > > Josh Wirtz > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003f01c5022f$1b4f7dc0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Painting a drop Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:09:39 -0800 > One thing I'd say NOT to do is use emulsion paint - big mistake some > amateur > co's have made and has all sorts of short and long term problems! (Emulsion paint is Latex on this side of the pond, Josh.) You'll (hopefully) hear a lot of suggestions on this list, but I think Tony's post will be the only one suggesting powdered paints. -- Jon Ares Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts www.hevanet.com/acreative www.wlhstheatre.org ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:08:49 GMT Subject: Re: Painting a drop Message-Id: <20050124.080926.2611.74014 [at] webmail22.lax.untd.com> Just remember to coat the back side of the drop with a coating of the same thickness of whatever you are painting on the front with, to lessen the curling once you take it off the paint frame. The sizing primarily fills the gaps between the threads of the muslin. I am assuming that you will be NOT using Aniline Dyes for translucency. /s/ Richard I am painting a drop for the first time, and could use some help. I have purchased a pre made muslin drop. After stretching it on a frame, do I need to put size on it, and prime it? Can I just paint it, and won't the paint effectively work as a size? Many thanks, Josh Wirtz ------------------------------ From: "Karl G. Ruling" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:15:52 -0500 Subject: Re: aluminum chlorhydrate Reply-to: kruling [at] esta.org Message-ID: <41F4D8E8.8984.FEF5F17 [at] localhost> In-reply-to: > They even advertise Aluminum Chlorhydrate as an ingredient in > toothpaste. It is a good abrasive, even on tooth enamel. > > > James Smith, Soundsculpture Incorporated wrote: > > Aluminum is a good conductor, but aluminum-oxide is one of the best > > insulators -- it rivals ceramic! Also, aluminum oxide is highly > > abrasive, hence aluminum-oxide sandpaper. But, aluminum chlorhydrate is not aluminum oxide. BTW, are you sure your toothpaste has aluminum chlorhydrate in it? Aluminum chlorhydrate (AlCl3 . 6H2O) is the active ingredient in antiperspirants. It closes sweat ducts in the skin. How would it improve toothpaste? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1ce401c5022f$f25f0880$0800000a [at] Tony> From: "Tony" References: Subject: Re: Painting a drop Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:15:34 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Ares" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 4:09 PM Subject: Re: Painting a drop > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > One thing I'd say NOT to do is use emulsion paint - big mistake some > > amateur > > co's have made and has all sorts of short and long term problems! > > > > > (Emulsion paint is Latex on this side of the pond, Josh.) > > > > You'll (hopefully) hear a lot of suggestions on this list, but I think > Tony's post will be the only one suggesting powdered paints. > > -- Jon Ares Okay......... 8-))) Wanna qualify that one? I'm intrigued, and (as I said I'm by no means an expert in drop painting) what would you expect to be the norm for the drop-painting medium? I have been involved in painting probably a dozen (wow!) cloths in the past 10 or 15 years, but likely to be doing more this year, I'd seriously appreciate any better ideas than my own. Powder paint mixed with size has always (so far) served us well and given pretty reasonable results, so please be a bit more specific.... Cheers Ynot ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: aluminum chlorhydrate Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:20:01 -0500 Message-ID: <002301c50230$915acd20$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > Aluminum chlorhydrate (AlCl3 . 6H2O) is the active ingredient in > antiperspirants. It closes sweat ducts in the skin. How would it > improve toothpaste? Well, who wants sweaty teeth? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:19:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Painting a drop From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Generally I would recommend using a paint such as Off-Broadway that is relatively neutral and light colored and which also will fit the tints and tones of the finished drop. Dilute somewhat and paint it on. The thicker the paint, the stiffer the drop when dry. If you are planning to reuse the drop on future shows and repaint it, then it is even more important not to get too thick with the paint. Check the scene painting textbooks for more info. Steve on 1/24/05 11:09 AM, Jon Ares at jonares [at] hevanet.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >> One thing I'd say NOT to do is use emulsion paint - big mistake some >> amateur >> co's have made and has all sorts of short and long term problems! > > > > > (Emulsion paint is Latex on this side of the pond, Josh.) > > > > You'll (hopefully) hear a lot of suggestions on this list, but I think > Tony's post will be the only one suggesting powdered paints. > > -- Jon Ares > Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts > www.hevanet.com/acreative > www.wlhstheatre.org > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:31:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Painting a drop From: John McKernon Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > I am painting a drop for the first time, and could use some help. I > have purchased a pre made muslin drop. After stretching it on a frame, > do I need to put size on it, and prime it? Can I just paint it, and > won't the paint effectively work as a size? You *can* just paint it, but each section will shrink independently as you paint it, unless you give it an overall (light) size coat of paint first. For best results, you need to starch it, following the directions in Lynn Pecktal's excellent book, "Designing and Painting for the Theatre". It's easy to do, involves a bit of Argo starch, a hudson sprayer, and a push broom. Produces a lovely working surface and sizes the muslin. Starching first also helps keep the paint from soaking through the fabric and effectively gluing the drop to whatever it's laying on. - John McKernon ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:33:15 -0600 From: Kevin Holly Subject: Re: Another Question >So, my next question. I'm getting tired of freelancing and am >thinking of the full time job route again. I haven't been delighted >with the job sites I've been finding on the net. (The good sites >seems to be for the opposite coast: California.) Trying to find a >full time or freelance job with my qualifications on the net seems >harder than it should be. It's been a while since I looked at this, >but I thought it'd be better by now. IS the old way best? Or has >someone seen something I missed? Thoughts on this? Have you looked at Backstage Jobs: http://backstagejobs.com/jobs.htm Excellent site with listings all across the country. -- Kevin Holly Technical Director Libertyville High School ------------------------------ Message-ID: <005201c50233$9d5e2e70$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Painting a drop Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:41:55 -0800 > I'm intrigued, and (as I said I'm by no means an expert in drop painting) > what would you expect to be the norm for the drop-painting medium? Sorry - I didn't mean anything disparaging with my comment "Tony will be the only one suggesting powered paints" - in the US, they're not that readily available to most folks. Over here, most will starch the drop (as I do), and apply washes of diluted Rosco Off-Broadway or Super-Sat with sprayers. Even lay-in colour will usually be the same Off-Bway or Super-Sat, but watered down tremendously. This prevents the stiff, crunchy result that laying in straight latex (or emulsion) paint will achieve. Diluted Super-Sat can also mimic the wet-on-wet watercolour look as well. Experience and mileage will vary, of course. Dyes are wonderful, but take a lot of skill. -- Jon Ares Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts www.hevanet.com/acreative www.wlhstheatre.org ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1d0801c50234$24f33240$0800000a [at] Tony> From: "Tony" References: Subject: Re: Painting a drop Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:45:36 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Ares" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 4:41 PM Subject: Re: Painting a drop > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > I'm intrigued, and (as I said I'm by no means an expert in drop painting) > > what would you expect to be the norm for the drop-painting medium? > > > Sorry - I didn't mean anything disparaging with my comment "Tony will be the > only one suggesting powered paints" - in the US, they're not that readily > available to most folks. Over here, most will starch the drop (as I do), > and apply washes of diluted Rosco Off-Broadway or Super-Sat with sprayers. > Even lay-in colour will usually be the same Off-Bway or Super-Sat, but > watered down tremendously. This prevents the stiff, crunchy result that > laying in straight latex (or emulsion) paint will achieve. Diluted > Super-Sat can also mimic the wet-on-wet watercolour look as well. > Experience and mileage will vary, of course. Dyes are wonderful, but take a > lot of skill. > > -- Jon Ares > I didn't think you did, really. Hence the smileys. 8-)) AFAIK, it is a common paint to use over here, though. Ynot ------------------------------ Message-ID: <005801c50234$5d8bdfd0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Another Question Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:47:18 -0800 > Have you looked at Backstage Jobs: http://backstagejobs.com/jobs.htm > Excellent site with listings all across the country. That is an excellent site and I keep an eye on it once in a while myself. I am looking for something to fill my July slot, and would like to find something (lighting design, preferably) out of my region (for experience and variety) - but the $200/week summer gig thing just isn't going to work at my age and level of bills to pay. Anyone know of a 'secret' list of jobs for the more experienced? :) -- Jon Ares Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts www.hevanet.com/acreative www.wlhstheatre.org ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1106585410.41f52742e0b11 [at] webmail.plattsburgh.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:50:10 -0500 From: kim.hartshorn [at] plattsburgh.edu Subject: re: tripping breaker on 3 phase References: In-Reply-To: Perhaps the breaker is actually for a large contactor relay and the relay is bad. (maybe that is the humming) Perhaps you have (by random chance) overloaded one of the legs feeding your dimmer packs by an unlucky dimmer patch. (This has happened to me) Does the breaker trip on startup or only at lights full? Can you put a probe on the separate legs and measure the load as you power up each dimmer one at a time? ------------------------------ Message-id: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:14:45 -0800 Subject: lightline or fake neon From: "John Hauer" References: In-Reply-To: Hello, I am wondering what is being use now to fake neon on stage. It has been some time since I've done this. I remember the words "light line." Does that still exist? Is there a good product now for purchase? Thanks, John ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Greg Potter" Subject: RE: lightline or fake neon Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:17:25 -0600

We just use ropelights, available retail and in different colors.  with a black painted background and flown in it reads as neon from the house.

Greg Potter

TD, Wohlfahrt Haus Theatre 

>From: "John Hauer" <johnhauer [at] csus.com>
>Reply-To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
>To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
>Subject: lightline or fake neon
>Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:14:45 -0800
>
>For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>Hello,
>I am wondering what is being use now to fake neon on stage. It has been
>some time since I've done this. I remember the words "light line." Does
>that still exist? Is there a good product now for purchase?
>Thanks,
>John
>
------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Rated vs un-rated quick links Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:23:07 -0500 Just in case you are interested, here are some specs from a manufacturey of "rated" quicklinks (Makefast Safety Products) compared to the specs listed in the McMaster-Carr catalog for "unrated" quicklinks. Rated Quicklink (Rapid link) Size: 6mm (.24") Breaking strength: 7150 lbs WWL: 1430 lbs DF: 5 Un-rated Quicklink (McMaster-Carr) Size: 1/4" (.25") Breaking strength: ???? WWL: 880 lbs DF: ? Rated Quicklink (Rapid link) Size: 9mm (.35") Breaking strength: 15,400 lbs WWL: 3,080 lbs DF: 5 Un-rated Quicklink (McMaster-Carr) Size: 3/8" (.375") Breaking strength: ???? WWL: 2,200 lbs DF:? All quicklinks are not created equal, nor do they cost the same. -Delbert Delbert L. Hall 423-773-HALL (4255) ------------------------------ Message-ID: <297C9E3B63B2D3119C8100508B5ED28F1601FFF2 [at] exchange2.ubc.ca> From: "Riter, Andrew (Head Ltg)" Subject: RE: 3 ph 1 transformer Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:32:25 -0800 Are the ETC racks, while wired with 5 wire, internally set for 3 phase? I remember the portable CD80 strand racks that are convertible from 1 phase to 3 phase. Even if you have 3 hot wires, 2 may not wired internally. YMMV,HTH Andrew M. Riter Head Lighting Technician Chan Centre ------------------------------ Message-ID: <297C9E3B63B2D3119C8100508B5ED28F1601FFF3 [at] exchange2.ubc.ca> From: "Riter, Andrew (Head Ltg)" Subject: RE: Dressing room/green room dual paging Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 09:39:14 -0800 We're in your boat at the Chan centre: 2 theatres, 1 set of dressing rooms, occasionally dual shows. Each dressing room, the "Green room" (such as it is), production area, offices, etc have 1 speaker box, with a toggle switch to choose either theatre. Do you plan to have the cast from both shows in one dressing room at the same time? If not, each dressing room can choose which feed it listens to. As for the common area, you may be out of luck for the competing program sound feeds. Our system also has a Priority Paging function, which overrides the program sound audio feed from the theatre with the paging mic of the Stage manager. I don't know what happens if both theatres try paging at the same time. My suggestion is to assign the feed to common area from the active show, and let the rehearsal catch as catch can. That's what ASMs are for isn't it? Andrew M. Riter Head Lighting Technician Chan Centre ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <129.550377b0.2f268d2c [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:41:00 EST Subject: Re: Dissimilar metals In a message dated 24/01/05 00:23:02 GMT Standard Time, jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com writes: > Does this trussing/rigging need to be reliably grounded for electrical > safety? If not, then I agree with you. But aluminum oxide barriers between > components could result in floating metal parts that are assumed to be > safely at ground. Sorry -- I always look at everything from an electrical > perspective, even when it's completely meaningly or even inappropriate. :) I should say yes. Of course the lighting equipment attached to it will to some extent do this for you, if all the clamps are well tightened so as to cut through the oxide layer. But I'd personally rather have a properly bonded structure. It's also worth noting that stray currents may try to find a ground through the suspension cables. In extreme cases, these may overheat the suspension to failure point. > > Except that ground currents and inductive currents could be flowing through > your trussing and other metal rigging components. These can induce > electrochemical reactions, creating electrical barriers between components > over time. My apologies again, it may not matter the slightest little bit. Better to be safe than sorry. They shouldn't happen, but we all know that they do. I have heard of a professional outside broadcast set up where the main ground between the generator and a heavy current user was provided, briefly, by the outer of a co-ax cable. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:56:46 EST Subject: Re: Three Phase Power In a message dated 24/01/05 06:58:01 GMT Standard Time, mgoebel [at] gmail.com writes: > This three phase power comes from a transformer, which as I understand > it, separates the three phases of power from a single conductor on the > primary side to the three separate conductors on the secondary side. > The labels on the transformers (from memory) identify the HV side to > be 440v, and the LV side to be 208v. > > A 90A breaker energizes the transformer. > > The way I understand this, a single conductor having all 3 phase on it > at 440v comes into the panel. The 90A break straddles this leg to > neutral, limiting the current it carries to 90A or 39600 watts max. > > If this is the case, then why does this breaker trip when it has 16k > of lighting on it? You are a bit adrift, here. A three-phase supply needs at least three wires, naybe four. Functionally, the transformer is really three transformers, one for each phase, and I should expect three breakers. By approximate calculation (I'm used to UK numbers, which are different), 16KW comes to about 128A. I suspect that you may have a phase imbalance. Three-phase distrbution relies on the three phase loads being broadly similar, with the neutral carrying only the out-of-balance current. If this is not true, strange things may happen. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <7d.616e1425.2f26917b [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:59:23 EST Subject: Re: Three Phase Power In a message dated 24/01/05 09:21:21 GMT Standard Time, deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes: > Are you sure that the rack is cabled in 3-phase? If not, then the max > capacity is reduced from your 39600kW to just over 18.7kW, which is > significantly closer to the 16K you believe is tripping the breaker. > (Assuming the 90A is a 3-ganged all-in-one breaker, any excess on one phase > will physically cause the trip of ALL 3 phases, which sort of suggests that > you may NOT have the individual phases protected individually). > > This is all conjecture, of course, and you were right in your first > assessment in that the only way to get a valid answer is to have a qualified > sparkie come look at the installation - there's only so much we can do, > unfortunately, with just words to describe the picture. > > Let us know how it turns out. A miracle! Tony and I in broad agreement. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1d5001c5023e$87964f90$0800000a [at] Tony> From: "Tony" References: Subject: Re: Three Phase Power Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:59:57 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: > > A miracle! Tony and I in broad agreement. > > Frank Wood > Don't get used to it.....!!! 8-)))) Ynot ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:15:20 EST Subject: Re: Three Phase Power In a message dated 24/01/05 09:41:11 GMT Standard Time, mgoebel [at] gmail.com writes: > > Are you SURE that the boxes on the walls are transformers? > Yes. They're actually on the ground,and are each labelled 'dry > transformer'. They make loud humming noises when energised. There are > only two breakers. There are no other breakers. Breakers to > transformer to dimpack ratio is 2:2:2. Each breaker is labeled 90A. > The diagram on the transformer clearly shows one primary coil and > three secondary coils, as well as the resultant delta power > configuration. I'm going to stick out my neck, and say that this is impossible. You just can't send a three-phase supply down less than three wires, ignoring neutrals and earths. At least, not without a lot of elaborate and expensive gear. If you can get at them, can you count the wires going into and out of these transformers, and tell us what colours they are? > > > Are you sure that the rack is cabled in 3-phase? > Yes. 3 phase 5 wire coming via camlocs. How many, and how routed? Do you know which dimmers are on which phase? Extra information will help. Believe me, we are trying to understand your problem. It's hard. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <8b.1f6cf243.2f26969f [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:21:19 EST Subject: Re: Three Phase Power In a message dated 24/01/05 15:24:48 GMT Standard Time, mgoebel [at] gmail.com writes: > Does the dimmer-rack distribute it's load evenly across the 3 legs or > is it up to me? If this isn't the case, how do I know which dimmmer is > on which leg? Consult the installation drawings. This is the only way you can tell. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "James Smith, Soundsculpture Incorporated" Subject: RE: Dissimilar metals Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:34:57 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <20050124183459.JGNH1836.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net [at] p3m866> Thanks, Frank. I'm new to posting on this list so I didn't want to be too aggressive -- but electrical safety should be a top priority with any metal structures of this kind, particularly where aluminum is involved. - uninvited diatribe about aluminum - I was working on the electronic controls for a high-speed scroller a couple of years ago (electronics design is what I do). The mechanical designer I was working with used aluminum rollers to guide the film and ground static that was produced by the rolling action. Over a very short period of time, the rollers turned black. Then the sparks really started flying -- sparks powerful enough to make unconnected nearby fluorescent lamps "blink". The surface between the roller and the film became a huge generator of static, rather than a dissipator. (Many people don't realize that static is produced by moving any two materials away from each other, even if they won't contact each other. Static electricity is a complex and generally misunderstood beast.) The result: scrollers worked fine for a few days or weeks, then started sparking, and eventually resetting (and sometimes damaging) their own electronics. Clean the rollers down to clean metal and all problems would go away for a while. Another problem was black residue appearing on the film -- an unsightly layer of aluminum oxide that bothered the mechanical designer more than the electrical issues (he saw resetting electronics as my problem, not his). So he put in clear anodized aluminum rollers. Then the scroller self-destructed from day one. He didn't realize that clear anodized aluminum looks like metal but doesn't conduct. There was also an experiment where plain aluminum were contacted by a wiping commutator to get the static away from the roller to ground. It worked at first, but eventually the commutator got "clogged" with aluminum oxide and stopped conducting. The aluminum roller looked like it was being scraped clean by the commutator, but conduction still deteriorated over time. Moral of the story: don't trust aluminum to conduct unless you take a lot of special precautions, including anti-oxidant pastes. - end of diatribe - Jim Smith > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf > Of FrankWood95 [at] aol.com > Sent: January 24, 2005 12:41 PM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Re: Dissimilar metals > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 24/01/05 00:23:02 GMT Standard Time, > jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com writes: > > > Does this trussing/rigging need to be reliably grounded for > electrical > > safety? If not, then I agree with you. But aluminum oxide barriers > between > > components could result in floating metal parts that are > assumed to > > be safely at ground. Sorry -- I always look at everything from an > > electrical perspective, even when it's completely > meaningly or even > > inappropriate. :) > > I should say yes. Of course the lighting equipment attached > to it will to some extent do this for you, if all the clamps > are well tightened so as to cut through the oxide layer. But > I'd personally rather have a properly bonded structure. It's > also worth noting that stray currents may try to find a > ground through the suspension cables. In extreme cases, these > may overheat the suspension to failure point. > > > > Except that ground currents and inductive currents could > be flowing > > through your trussing and other metal rigging components. > These can > > induce electrochemical reactions, creating electrical barriers > > between components over time. My apologies again, it may > not matter the slightest little bit. > > Better to be safe than sorry. They shouldn't happen, but we > all know that they do. I have heard of a professional outside > broadcast set up where the main ground between the generator > and a heavy current user was provided, briefly, by the outer > of a co-ax cable. > > Frank Wood > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:06:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Strange question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Paul Guncheon wrote: > My favorite employment ad: "Full time chef wanted. Experience preferred." ------------------------------ Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20050124141752.01dcf430 [at] 212.86.129.164> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 14:26:26 -0500 From: Nathan Kahn/Look Solutions Subject: Re: lightline or fake neon In-Reply-To: References: >Hello, >I am wondering what is being use now to fake neon on stage. It has been >some time since I've done this. I remember the words "light line." Does >that still exist? Is there a good product now for purchase? >Thanks, >John The original product was called Linelight, it was the first UV fluorescent flexible tubing (AFAIK). Here's an English company that carries a similar product: http://www.glowshop.com/en-gb/dept_546.html My Google search didn't turn up a USA supplier - maybe yours will be more fruitful. Nathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Look Solutions USA, Ltd. 114 W. Third St. Waynesboro, PA 17268 Toll-Free: 1-800-426-4189 Phone: 1-717-762-7490 Fax: 1-717-762-7366 Company Email: usa [at] looksolutions.com Personal Email: nk [at] looksolutions.com Web: www.looksolutions.com and www.fogspecs.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:55:29 +0000 Subject: Re: Dressing room/green room dual paging From: Tony Miller Message-ID: > Our system also has a Priority Paging function, which overrides the program > sound audio feed from the theatre with the paging mic of the Stage manager. I > don't know > what happens if both theatres try paging at the same time. I've worked in similar multi venue buildings where that problem is solved by a light on the prompt desk which comes on when another stage manager is making a call. There is usually time to wait a few seconds until they are finished and the light goes out. Cheers Tony Miller. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:01:04 -0600 From: Mick Alderson Subject: Re: list form ("anyone else") Message-id: Stuart Wheaton wrote: > >I am NOT trying to start a flame war... > >So, this question is just for my education. Why do people >use the digest mode? Habit, I guess. I started on this list back in the "Zinc.com" days, and back then only checked my e-mail once a day (seems a long time ago!). The shell mail client we had didn't have folders as such, so the Digest mode was essentially a mini folder created daily. Now I keep it because I'm used to it, and because when I work "union" gigs, I'll dump the Digest onto my Palm PDA first thing in the morning (it's sent out at 5:00 AM) and read it at break during the day. It's a lot easier to transfer a single document than 57 of them! Mick Alderson TD, Fredric March Theatre University of Wisconsin Oshkosh alderson [at] uwosh.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:03:43 -0600 From: Mick Alderson Subject: Re: Three Phase Power Message-id: Mat Goebel wrote: >> Are you SURE that the boxes on the walls are transformers? >Yes. They're actually on the ground,and are each labelled 'dry >transformer'. They make loud humming noises when energised. There are >only two breakers. There are no other breakers. Breakers to >transformer to dimpack ratio is 2:2:2. Each breaker is labeled 90A. >The diagram on the transformer clearly shows one primary coil and >three secondary coils, as well as the resultant delta power >configuration. OK, I think what you have is an isolation transformer which also do a step-down function. It helps keep the hum out of the sound system. I've seen a drawing similar to what you describe in one of our venues. They are bringing in delta power at 440 v. so as to use a smaller wire gauge, then transforming it near the load to save cable. If you look close, I think what you interpret as a single primary coil is really a three delta primaries layed out in a line. (Look for tap points at each end, which is really the same tap, and two points in the middle which are the other two taps.) The secondaries are changing the delta input to WYE, and so are drawn as three more clearly separate coils. The neutral is derived by joining one end of each secondary coil. But you really have three primaries and three secondaries, or you wouldn't have three phase. It isn't as clear as the traditional triangular drawing of a delta transformer, but takes less space on the info plate. Mick Alderson IA Local 470 and TD, Fredric March Theatre University of Wisconsin Oshkosh alderson [at] uwosh.edu ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: lightline or fake neon Message-ID: From: Jeff Holt Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:10:16 -0500 I worked on a show once that use side-emitting fibre optics, try searching the net for that... I believe the provider for this show was TPR enterprises. 'twas very impressive and has a smoother look to it than ropelight. have never bought it, so no idea on cost. Jeff Holt ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:13:41 -0500 From: "David Bowman" Subject: Re: list form ("anyone else") Hey gang, I'm currently a single-message user. I'd prefer digest EXCEPT I'd rather have the digest sort by subject then date/time. I realize this may be just a pet peeve of mine. This way, if I want to follow a particular thread, it's all grouped together instead of "hunting and pecking" for the individual pieces. I also realize that this would take a bit more server power and programming to accomplish (nothing against you, Noah, you are doing a fantastic job). Since the digest only comes in the order that messages are received, I get the single-message version and make my email client sort by thread. dave B. David M. Bowman Syracuse Stage / SU Drama Master Electrician / Adj. Professor dmbowman [at] syr.edu Dolor Temporarius... Gloria Aeterna.... Cicatrices Virgines Placent! ------------------------------ Subject: RE: lightline or fake neon Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:20:37 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Boyette, Glenn" Try http://www.californeon.net/ or http://www.nslusa.com/ . We use the = californeon regularly on our sports shows, works great on TV, not sure = about the stage. Does make some rf noise. -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Jeff Holt Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 4:10 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: lightline or fake neon For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- I worked on a show once that use side-emitting fibre optics, try = searching=20 the net for that... I believe the provider for this show was TPR enterprises. 'twas very impressive and has a smoother look to it than ropelight. have = never bought it,=20 so no idea on cost. Jeff Holt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:25:38 -0500 (EST) From: Boyd Ostroff Subject: Re: list form ("anyone else") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here we go again. Obviously we all have our own preferences and never the twain shall meet. I dislike the digests, but the volume of e-mail has gotten tedious now as well. Personally I think this list is looking a lot like a dinosaur these days. Again, I know that many (most?) disagree with me, but I find web-based discussion forums much, much more effective (vBulletin, phpBB, etc). They let everyone participate and catch up at their own speed. They also break things into categories so you can limit the amount of stuff to scan. And they allow for easy searching and archiving. If you don't turn on all the bells and whistles (avatars, banner ads, etc) they are very fast. I spend most of my time there and am a moderator at a site with over 14,000 members and 265,000 posts online (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf). To me it's a much more satisfying experience - aside from the nostalgia value of this stagecraft mail list. But that's just me... whatever. Regardless, I still get the list in individual message format, and for the most part I just delete everything that comes in but every now and then I'll read something if it catches my attention. | Boyd Ostroff | Director of Design and Technology | Opera Company of Philadelphia | http://tech.operaphilly.com | ostroff [at] operaphilly.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:34:59 -0800 From: Mat Goebel Reply-To: Mat Goebel Subject: Re: Three Phase Power In-Reply-To: References: Problem solved. Everyone was right, and as I suspected, I was wrong. An electrician was on site today for something completely different; I offered to buy him lunch if he would open up the panels and show me around. All suspicions were correct. Coming into the panel is 3 phase 4 wire at 480v. Each 90A breaker handle all 3 phases, but there's only one switch on the front - this is what threw me and led me to believe that the power was somehow multiplexed. The 3 phase comes into the transformers, which as Mick suspected, are step down and isolation. The 3 phase is now 208v. The 3 phase then goes through a set of 200A fuses and a disconnect before being delivered to the lights. Now as to why the breaker tripped to begin with. I *assumed* that the dimmers in the rack went: phase ABC ABC ABC, all the way down the rack. In fact, 1-8 are A, 2-16 are B, and 17-24 are C. The entire 16kW load was on 1-16. Woops. Thanks everyone for the help in demystifying this! I knew AC power wasn't a black art beyond my comprehension. It makes perfect sense. -- Mat Goebel Cell: 510.693.1448 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 14:58:20 +0000 From: CB Subject: Education Message-id: <3.0.6.32.20050124145820.00b7a6e0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> >Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated! Quit showing up in the garb of your ethnic background, it scares the locals! ; > (Tommy at the Pasedena Civic says 'Hi!") Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound OTR Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Fred Young" Subject: Looking for a contact in Budapest Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:03:56 -0500 I am writing the mailing list because I running into too many dead-ends. Does any body have a contact with the State Opera in Budapest? I'm researching the history of the building and its technology, as well as how the technology effected the designs for performance in the space. If you would like to keep the email private I can be reached of the list. Thanks, Fred Young cad_fred [at] hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:08:32 +0000 From: CB Subject: Re: list form ("anyone else") Message-id: <3.0.6.32.20050124150832.00b7a6e0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> >Why do people >use the digest mode? For me, sitting down with the digest is like going to the bar after the in. We get so sit and chat together as a group, and socialize. I'll either read it over morning cappo or decompress with it with a beer after a long night, depending on schedule. Getting the single message mode seems more 'one-on-one', and bit more like a list of things to do than a chat. Digest also makes it way too easy to scroll back and reference what someone else posted, and I can search my trash for an older post easier, with my mental filing system. OTOH, as I have stated (and others have echoed), those that don't get the digest and continue to re-post the re-posting of their original post tend to annoy the crap out of us, not to mention that it also tends to indicate an inability to follow simple instructions or a lack of courtesy. Not that I'm pointing any fingers or anything, they all know who they are. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound OTR Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.20050124225504.0158807c [at] pop.paonline.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:55:04 -0500 From: Joe Subject: Re: AutoCAD Layers/ Classes >Does anyone know how to group together a bunch of >Layers in AutoCAD so that I can click one thing and >have a whole bunch of layers turn on or off. >Chris Wych As of version 2002, the only direct way was to save layer states. A button on the Layer dialog box is where this is done. For one-button access, I've created custom buttons. One button restores layer setting named "1", another "2", etc. These layer settings must be saved first for my buttons to work. Additionally, I've followed a naming convention where all dimension and notation layers have the letters "DIM" in them somewhere. So, a macro button that says -la f *dim*; will freeze all the dimension layers (except the current one). Likewise, all my wood finishes have "WOOD" in their layer name. Joe Dunfee joe [at] dunfee.com Gordonville, Pennsylvania, U.S.A. ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <3CC77D95-6E5B-11D9-B0D5-000A95AA04E6 [at] portlandstage.com> From: Gregg Carville Subject: Re: lightline or fake neon Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:56:52 -0500 There is also a product called Live Wire - it is good for some applications. A company out of Long Island supplies it - they are on the web. Not the brightest I have seen, but in some situations (we used it in near blackout conditions and it looked fabulous. Side emitting fibre is great - but really expensive. Rope light is usually a cheap alternative. FWIW - Gregg On Jan 24, 2005, at 12:14 PM, John Hauer wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > Hello, > I am wondering what is being use now to fake neon on stage. It has been > some time since I've done this. I remember the words "light line." Does > that still exist? Is there a good product now for purchase? > Thanks, > John > > ------------------------------ Subject: RE: simultaneous cues in SFX Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:03:42 -0500 Message-ID: From: "jknipple" Thanks so much, all of you who guessed "Preempt." That was indeed the problem. James Knipple =20 Technical Director REP Stage - www.howardcc.edu/repstage Student-Alumni Arts - Howard Community College=20 - www.howardcc.edu/studentarts jknipple [at] howardcc.edu 410-772-4451 >How about the "Preempt" for the cue's assigned group.=20 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <014D202957F6D8118924000F20D7342B0176D70B [at] az33exm01.corp.mot.com> From: Wood Chip-P26398 Subject: RE: Dissimilar metals Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:15:38 -0700 There was a big flap about 20 years ago when contractors, to save money, put in aluminum wiring in new construction. The junctions to the standard copper screws at the switches and outlets would develop the oxide and cause fires. I know that our jurisdiction made ALL contractors and home owners fix the problem with either new wiring or special kinds of connectors. Chip Wood -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of James Smith A layer of aluminum oxide becomes a high resistance in the circuit, and eventually becomes a voltage drop running so hot it can start a fire. The problem is not with the aluminum, it's with making a good connection between it and something else. Truly a dissimilar metal issue. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:21:57 -0500 From: Cosmo Catalano Subject: Dance Floor Roll Diameter Message-id: I'm designing a cart to carry dance floor. What is the diameter of 574 linear feet of Adagio dance floor? Starting on a drum of 8". The thickness of the floor is .06 inches. I'd like to get it all onto one roll about 16 to 18 inches in diameter. This is about 1300 lbs of floor. It might have to go on two carts. Cosmo ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050124234248.45442.qmail [at] web81704.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:42:48 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Heinicke Subject: Re: Dance Floor Roll Diameter In-Reply-To: --- Cosmo Catalano wrote: > I'm designing a cart to carry dance floor. What is > the diameter of 574 > linear feet of Adagio dance floor? Starting on a > drum of 8". The > thickness of the floor is .06 inches. > > I'd like to get it all onto one roll about 16 to 18 > inches in diameter. > This is about 1300 lbs of floor. It might have to > go on two carts. I went through this same issue a while ago for the same type of project. I know the equation to find the circumferance of a circle, and just used that to figure roughly how many wraps it would take to go around the drum diameter. Then I just multiplied the number of wraps times the thickness of the floor times 2. Like I said, a rough figure. I would have liked to calculate the diameter taking into account the increasing circumferance with each wrap, but couldn't find or develop and equation to do so. If someone with better math abilities than I would like to try it, I would appreciate it as much as Cosmo probably would. BTW, don't ask me how near my calculations were to reality. The project has stalled in the funding stage indefinately. Mike H ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Dissimilar metals Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:08:00 -0800 Message-ID: <009d01c50271$ef1a85e0$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: Oh yes, yes, yes. How many houses have I inspected and theaters which did just that. Aluminum wiring. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Doom -- Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. - www.riskit.com Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Wood Chip-P26398 Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 3:16 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Dissimilar metals For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- There was a big flap about 20 years ago when contractors, to save money, put in aluminum wiring in new construction. The junctions to the standard copper screws at the switches and outlets would develop the oxide and cause fires. I know that our jurisdiction made ALL contractors and home owners fix the problem with either new wiring or special kinds of connectors. Chip Wood -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of James Smith A layer of aluminum oxide becomes a high resistance in the circuit, and eventually becomes a voltage drop running so hot it can start a fire. The problem is not with the aluminum, it's with making a good connection between it and something else. Truly a dissimilar metal issue. ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: lightline or fake neon Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:11:16 -0800 Message-ID: <00a301c50272$6443a810$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: I have found and recommended Live Wire Photoluminescent for a number of years now and its works perfectly in theater operations of all types. doom -- Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. - www.riskit.com Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Gregg Carville Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:57 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: lightline or fake neon For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- There is also a product called Live Wire - it is good for some applications. A company out of Long Island supplies it - they are on the web. Not the brightest I have seen, but in some situations (we used it in near blackout conditions and it looked fabulous. Side emitting fibre is great - but really expensive. Rope light is usually a cheap alternative. FWIW - Gregg On Jan 24, 2005, at 12:14 PM, John Hauer wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > Hello, > I am wondering what is being use now to fake neon on stage. It has been > some time since I've done this. I remember the words "light line." Does > that still exist? Is there a good product now for purchase? > Thanks, > John > > ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1a7.2fdaa069.2f26ea75 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:19:01 EST Subject: Re: Dissimilar metals In a message dated 24/01/05 18:36:29 GMT Standard Time, jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com writes: > Thanks, Frank. I'm new to posting on this list so I didn't want to be too > aggressive -- but electrical safety should be a top priority with any metal > structures of this kind, particularly where aluminum is involved. > > - uninvited diatribe about aluminum - > > I was working on the electronic controls for a high-speed scroller a couple > of years ago (electronics design is what I do). The mechanical designer I > was working with used aluminum rollers to guide the film and ground static > that was produced by the rolling action. Over a very short period of time, > the rollers turned black. Then the sparks really started flying -- sparks > powerful enough to make unconnected nearby fluorescent lamps "blink". Electronics design was once my own trade, and I have spent many years in the film industry. What your colleague has built is essentially a Van der Graaf generator. This is the sort of thing that is used for really high voltage testing of transformers, insulator strings, and so on. Hundreds, if not thousands of kilovolts. Rather like a Wimshurst machine, if you ever met one at school, but rather more so. There used to be one in the Science Museum, in London, which they used to let off, every so often. I'm talking about 20' sparks here, and a very loud crack. Miniature lightning. The insulating properties of air break down at about 25KV per inch. Few people realise just what voltages electrostatic generators can produce. What saves lives is that none can deliver any serious current, unlike a thunderstorm. You are usually quit for a painful experience. With storms, one is talking about megavolts, and mega-amps. Both those terms are being used literally, in their exact meanings, and both can occur in a lightning discharge. Instant charcoal! Frank Wood ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: list form ("anyone else") Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 19:32:46 -0500 On Jan 23, 2005, at 10:44 AM, kupfer [at] post.tau.ac.il wrote: Did anyone else get kupfer's message right justified? How did that get through to the list? I have never seen that happen before either on or off list. Just curious. ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 00:43:59 GMT Subject: Re: Three Phase Power Message-Id: <20050124.164415.16170.84054 [at] webmail02.lax.untd.com> Dear Frank, I am glad that you added that second clause to your sentence, because I didn't want have to discuss the intricacies of another type of 3-phase Delta that has one "Wild" phase (variable voltage, depending on the load), one fixed voltage phase, and one phase that is grounded. Some buildings that need 3-phase only for elevators or HVAC have this 3-phase type. If you come across this type of 3-phase Delta, do NOT attempt to use your normal Delta-to-Wye transformers to power dimmers as you will not like the result. The reason is obvious: the dimmers unbalance the load, which changes the voltage on one of the phases every time you execute a cue. This type of 3-phrase works when the loads stay balanced on all three phases, such as when feeding a motor. /s/ Richard You just can't send a three-phase supply down less than three wires, ignoring neutrals and earths. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <85.1fca144d.2f26f525 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:04:37 EST Subject: Re: Three Phase Power In a message dated 25/01/05 00:46:28 GMT Standard Time, ladesigners [at] juno.com writes: > Dear Frank, > I am glad that you added that second clause to your sentence, because I didn' > t want have to discuss the intricacies of another type of 3-phase Delta that > has one "Wild" phase (variable voltage, depending on the load), one fixed > voltage phase, and one phase that is grounded. Some buildings that need 3- > phase only for elevators or HVAC have this 3-phase type. If you come across > this type of 3-phase Delta, do NOT attempt to use your normal Delta-to-Wye > transformers to power dimmers as you will not like the result. The reason is > obvious: the dimmers unbalance the load, which changes the voltage on one of > the phases every time you execute a cue. This type of 3-phrase works when the > loads stay balanced on all three phases, such as when feeding a motor. I have long cherished the opinion that, in general, US power installations were what I should call 'insanitary'. I am delighted to have my opinion confirmed. I can live with single phase, split single phase, (208V cntere-tapped)., and real three-phase. After that, I give up. I don't know whawt some of the terminology means, nor of its electrical effects. I know how to handle single-phase, and real three-phase. But the US variant which includes a 'wild phase' has me defeated. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41F5A220.103CD17D [at] cybercom.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:34:24 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: Strange Question References: Jason wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Is the statement below legal? What about the ADA requirements? > > "Physical ability to access all areas of the theatre, withstand prolonged > standing, stretching, bending, kneeling, lifting and carrying items > weighting up to 50 lbs. without restriction and the ability to access all > areas of the facility and travel off property" ADA applies to general public accessible areas. If the job requires going up ladders, then they ought to say something along the lines of; Must be able to safely erect, climb, and perform work on ladders up to 48 feet tall. Why 48 feet, that's the longest extension ladder I've ever used. IANAL, of you want real legal advice, consult a lawyer specializing in labor law. --Dale ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 01:42:39 GMT Subject: Re: Strange Question Message-Id: <20050124.174321.16170.85162 [at] webmail02.lax.untd.com> The Job Description quoted sounds to be ADA compliant and 'OK' to me. /s/ Richard > Is the statement below legal? What about the ADA requirements? > "Physical ability to access all areas of the theatre, withstand > prolonged standing, stretching, bending, kneeling, lifting and > carrying items weighting up to 50 lbs. without restriction and the > ability to access all areas of the facility and travel off property" IANAL, of you want real legal advice, consult a lawyer specializing in labor law. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41F5A668.60B1E31E [at] cybercom.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:52:40 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: Metamorphoses pool References: mo wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Look into spa packs. Self-contained, easy to hook up, pump, heater, > controller, sometimes filter included. If you don't want new, check > with spa companies for used equipment. You'll be able to circulate and > maintain a comfortable temperature. They typically run ~$500. > Here's a sample link, but googling up 'spa pack' will get you all kinds > of links. > http://www.spas2order.com/ssl/eOrders/parts/index.asp > > And chemical-wise, treat this like a spa. floating bromine dispensers, > etc. just be very light-handed with chemicals to avoid ruining costumes > and stinking up the joint. > > Best of luck, > Michael Millar Yup. Bromine is better, but more expensive. Ozonaters are the best, but require even more money. Chlorine is cheap and effective. All of the pool chemicals can be extremely hazardous. Store them well away from combustibles, and way far away from the flammable liquids. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.0.1.1.2.20050124185555.0320c200 [at] mail.hiwaay.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:13:39 -0600 From: Scott D Trites Subject: Re: Three Phase Power Cc: mgoebel [at] gmail.com (Mat Goebel) I am a little confused, also, on what he has from the descriptions. I will attempt to shed some light on parts of it and think on the parts that don't make sense. Sounds to me like he has a 480Y/277 volt three phase 4 wire system as the building main distribution with step down transformers for getting to the normal 120 volt that most people are use to using. This is a typical installation around large buildings and/or large loads. The first 3 wires are the "hot" phases, the 4th wire is the neutral, and the 5th wire is the equipment ground. A 90 amp breaker will trip at 80% of rating, which would be about 72 Amps. This is to help protect everything downstream from that breaker. Although, 90 amp is a funny rating for a breaker, typically I would expect to see a 100 amp. The transformers are dry-type step down units to create the 208Y/120 volt feeders to the dimmer pack. These sound like they are normal dry types. A few questions. 1) Is the dimmer package connected directly to the transformer or is there a panel in between them. 2) Can you post the model number and manufacturer of the transformers? If you want you can send privately. 3) Are these packs interconnected in any way? There is a possibility that you are getting some ground loops in them and that is tripping the breakers. 4) When the breaker trips do both transformers trip or just one? My day job is a with a utility company, so I can speak with comfort on some of this. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41F5AC8E.51146026 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:18:55 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: Dissimilar metals References: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 24/01/05 18:36:29 GMT Standard Time, > jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com writes: > > > Thanks, Frank. I'm new to posting on this list so I didn't want to be too > > aggressive -- but electrical safety should be a top priority with any metal > > structures of this kind, particularly where aluminum is involved. > > > > - uninvited diatribe about aluminum - > > > > I was working on the electronic controls for a high-speed scroller a couple > > of years ago (electronics design is what I do). The mechanical designer I > > was working with used aluminum rollers to guide the film and ground static > > that was produced by the rolling action. Over a very short period of time, > > the rollers turned black. Then the sparks really started flying -- sparks > > powerful enough to make unconnected nearby fluorescent lamps "blink". > > Electronics design was once my own trade, and I have spent many years in the > film industry. > > What your colleague has built is essentially a Van der Graaf generator. This > is the sort of thing that is used for really high voltage testing of > transformers, insulator strings, and so on. Hundreds, if not thousands of kilovolts. > Rather like a Wimshurst machine, if you ever met one at school, but rather more > so. There used to be one in the Science Museum, in London, which they used to > let off, every so often. I'm talking about 20' sparks here, and a very loud > crack. Miniature lightning. The insulating properties of air break down at about > 25KV per inch. The Boston Museum of Science has an exceedingly large Van der Graaf generator. It's about three stories tall and makes *really big* sparks. SHows are about every hour or two, and earplugs are recommended. If you see a picture of the museum, the generator is under the dome next to the parking structure. (( www.mos.org )) --Dale ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:30:34 -0500 From: Richard Wolpert Subject: RE: SPAM-LOW: Re: Three Phase Power In-reply-to: Message-id: And here's another little wrinkle..... Some breakers are rated for 100% of the load, and will not trip at 80%, but at a limit very close to the rated ampacity ( in this case 90A. ). To make matters even murkier, I think we're all assuming these are thermal-magnetic breakers. These may trip from either thermal overload or over-current. Always need to check the ambient and connections to make sure the problem isn't just heat. Sounds like your local electrician solved the problems, and I think you ought to by him a case of beer to go along with the lunch! Richard A.Wolpert President Union Connector Co., Inc. 40 Dale Street West Babylon, NY 11704 Ph: 631-753-9550 ext. 204 Fx: 631-753-9560 richw [at] unionconnector.com -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Scott D Trites Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 9:14 PM To: Stagecraft Cc: Mat Goebel Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: Three Phase Power For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- I am a little confused, also, on what he has from the descriptions. I will attempt to shed some light on parts of it and think on the parts that don't make sense. Sounds to me like he has a 480Y/277 volt three phase 4 wire system as the building main distribution with step down transformers for getting to the normal 120 volt that most people are use to using. This is a typical installation around large buildings and/or large loads. The first 3 wires are the "hot" phases, the 4th wire is the neutral, and the 5th wire is the equipment ground. A 90 amp breaker will trip at 80% of rating, which would be about 72 Amps. This is to help protect everything downstream from that breaker. Although, 90 amp is a funny rating for a breaker, typically I would expect to see a 100 amp. The transformers are dry-type step down units to create the 208Y/120 volt feeders to the dimmer pack. These sound like they are normal dry types. A few questions. 1) Is the dimmer package connected directly to the transformer or is there a panel in between them. 2) Can you post the model number and manufacturer of the transformers? If you want you can send privately. 3) Are these packs interconnected in any way? There is a possibility that you are getting some ground loops in them and that is tripping the breakers. 4) When the breaker trips do both transformers trip or just one? My day job is a with a utility company, so I can speak with comfort on some of this. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41F5C0FF.1010704 [at] sbcglobal.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 21:46:07 -0600 From: Michael Heinicke Reply-To: mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net Subject: Carabiners I have seen several uses of carabiners that seem ok to me, but I would be interested in what more experienced people think. One is using a steel 'biner (usually autolocking) to haul up motor points instead of of tying a loop every time. The second is to attach equipment bags (ie: chalk bags) to belts or harnesses. This seems ok to me even with aluminum 'biners since they shouldn't be subjected to any shock loads. What do others think? Mike H ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41F5C497.8090108 [at] sbcglobal.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:01:27 -0600 From: Michael Heinicke Reply-To: mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net Subject: Wood quality vs. distortion I have a slightly OT project that I would like to do right the first time without experimenting and am assuming that someone else on the list will have the knowledge to help me get it right the first time. The project: I want to build a frame for a 6'x6' painting to hang for display. Originally the muslin was attached to a standard flat frame for painting but was removed for storage and for others to use the frame. The questions: By using clear white pine or poplar instead of standard No.2 or better 1x4, will the possibility of wood distortion be reduced? Which would be less likely to distort: a standard flat frame, or a hollywood frame with supplemental toggles running through the center in each direction? I am inclined to think the 2nd option would be less likely to bow, cup, bend or distort in any other way. Or does someone have a suggestion that I haven't thought of? Thanks, Mike H ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20050124211721.02088c80 [at] mail.DesignRelief.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 22:06:50 -0600 From: Mitch Hefter Subject: ANSI E1.11 -- USITT DMX512-A E1.11-2004, USITT DMX512-A can now be purchased. A PDF version is now available from ANSI's Electronic Standards Store: http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/product.asp?sku=ANSI+E1%2E11%2D2004 A hard copy version is now available from USITT (see the ESTA Publications section): https://secure.ffa.ucalgary.ca/cgi-bin/usitt/store/enter.pl A hard copy version will be available from PLASA: http://www.lsionline.co.uk/books/result.asp?cat=Standards . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mitch Hefter mitch.hefter [at] DesignRelief.com ESTA / USITT DMX512 Revision (ANSI E1.11) Task Group Chair USITT Engineering Vice-Commissioner, DMX512 Subcommittee Chair Office: Entertainment Technology / a Division of the Genlyte Group mhefter [at] genlyte.com +1-214/ 647-7880 x 7967 (Direct Line 214/ 647-7967) +1-214/ 647-4738 Fax http://www.etdimming.com http://www.lolcontrols.com http://www.vari-lite.com http://www.genlyte.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.0.20050124203336.02a07770 [at] localhost> Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 20:34:31 -0800 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: ANSI E1.11 -- USITT DMX512-A In-Reply-To: References: At 08:06 PM 1/24/2005, you wrote: >A hard copy version is now available from USITT (see the ESTA Publications >section): >https://secure.ffa.ucalgary.ca/cgi-bin/usitt/store/enter.pl I might mention I had to look, I had missed your ESTA note above. Might be good to put a note in the USITT section to point people to it. ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #271 *****************************