Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.6) with PIPE id 17427998; Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:54:12 -0800 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.6 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #284 Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:53:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on prxy.net X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.5 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #284 1. Re: Censorship by Mike Brubaker 2. Re: Censorship by IAEG [at] aol.com 3. Re: Censorship by Herrick Goldman 4. Re: Censorship / Cradle will Rock by IAEG [at] aol.com 5. Re: Welding Shop Equipment by RHolen [at] vinu.edu 6. Re: Censorship by "Joshua Webb" 7. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by "Karl G. Ruling" 8. Re: NEC Jordan Hall by Mike Katz 9. Re: Censorship / Cradle will Rock by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 10. Re: Censorship by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 11. Re: Censorship by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 12. correction on neutral current spreadsheet by "Karl G. Ruling" 13. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by "Joe Golden" 14. Re: Welding Shop Equipment by Chuck Mitchell 15. Re: Censorship / Cradle will Rock by IAEG [at] aol.com 16. Re: Censorship / Cradle will Rock by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 17. Re: Censorship by Chris Purpura 18. Re: Welding Shop Equipment by "Mike Rock" 19. Re: Periaktoi by Mike Katz 20. Re: Censorship by "Jack Morones" 21. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by Richard Wolpert 22. Re: Censorship by "Jack Morones" 23. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by Dale Farmer 24. Re: Welding Shop Equipment by Dale Farmer 25. fake palm trees by clindau 26. Re: Censorship by doran [at] bard.edu 27. Re: piano tuning by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 28. Re: Censorship by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 29. Re: Censorship by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 30. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 31. Re: Censorship by IAEG [at] aol.com 32. Re: Censorship by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 33. Re: listening assistance systems by Chris Davis 34. Re: Censorship by IAEG [at] aol.com 35. Re: Censorship by Herrick Goldman 36. Re: Censorship by IAEG [at] aol.com 37. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by ". Mitch Hefter" 38. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by Greg Persinger 39. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by Mick Alderson 40. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by Greg Persinger 41. Re: Piano tuner by CB 42. FW: Proper sizing of neutrals by "Kevin Linzey" 43. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by Kevin Ruud 44. Freelance Status by CB 45. Re: listening assistance systems by CB 46. Re: Freelance Status by CB 47. Re: We Ride!! Gas Mileage by CB 48. Re: KC by CB 49. Re: Censorship by Stuart Wheaton 50. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 51. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 52. Re: Censorship by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 53. Re: Censorship by IAEG [at] aol.com 54. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 55. Re: FW: Proper sizing of neutrals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 56. Re: KC by "Andy Leviss" 57. Re: KC / Austin / BBQ by Greg Williams 58. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by Richard Wolpert 59. Re: piano tuning by "John Gibilisco" 60. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by Mitch Hefter 61. Piano Tuning by Shell Dalzell 62. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by DanSLDME [at] aol.com *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20050204074103.01d03128 [at] mail.insightbb.com> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 07:54:30 -0500 From: Mike Brubaker Subject: Re: Censorship In-Reply-To: References: And "Corpus Christi" And "Rent" Maybe three years ago (summer of 2001), at the end of the summer, a student group at Indiana University Purdue University Ft. Wayne (Indiana) presented a production of "Corpus Christi." The university was sued by a group of legislators trying to stop the performance. The real irony is that not only did the legislators fail, the publicity meant that the performances were sold out--usual attendance for the student group's productions was generally less than stellar. Here's some links to the story: http://www.cultureandfamily.org/articledisplay.asp?id=113&department=CFI&categoryid=cfreport http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=3244 http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=14082 Mike Brubaker At 05:37 AM 2/4/2005, Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote: > > I'm writing a research paper on censorship in the theatre > > (all around the world, any time), so I thought I'd ask...has > > anyone ever run into problems? > >Do a web search on "The Cradle Will Rock". ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <97.585f6732.2f34cd9e [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 08:07:42 EST Subject: Re: Censorship In a message dated 2/4/05 7:57:16 AM, mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com writes: >And "Corpus Christi" >And "Rent" and "Angels in America", , don't I recall some communities trying to ban or alter the touring production? best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:14:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Censorship From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Once again I'll point you toward www.Irondale.org a few years ago we did a production called "Degenerate Art" it was an original piece based on Hitler's Entarte De Kunst art exhibit which in itself attempted to promote censorship. Irondale had frequently done work by Brecht, Shakespeare, and others and had always received small grants from The National Endowment for the Arts. On this occasion, based solely on the name of the project their grant request was denied. The irony was pretty sweet. I'm sure someone at the ensemble will be happy to discuss censorship in theater with you. Try Jim Niesen or Terry Griess. Hope that helps, -Herrick > At 05:37 AM 2/4/2005, Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote: >>> I'm writing a research paper on censorship in the theatre >>> (all around the world, any time), so I thought I'd ask...has >>> anyone ever run into problems? -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 08:17:09 EST Subject: Re: Censorship / Cradle will Rock In a message dated 2/4/05 5:38:15 AM, stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com writes: >Do a web search on "The Cradle Will Rock". as some one who has produced and directed Mark Blitzstein's Cradle, , including an actual recreation of the famed opening night* , , with an unsuspecting audience I might add. here's where you need to research 1 HALLIE FLANAGAN's ARENA Story of the Federal Theatre Project as written by the Director of the project 2 John Houseman's Auto Biorgraphy,, this is a three volume work, ( and very fascinating reading!), and at the moment I can't recall the names of all three, , DRESS REHEARSAL I believe is the second installment that has the most complete description printed of the entire CRADLE WILL ROCK story 3 THE MAGIC OF LIGHT Jean Rosenthal,, yes the famed Lighting Designer was the Stage Manager for that production and played a vital role in the move 30 blocks up town that night. There a good discription of the event in this book and it was where I was first introduced to the "labour opera" But I can't say there's a great deal about the actual political background of the situation in this, 4 WHEN THEATRE WAS A WEAPON , Don't recall the author,, but a great source about the period in the 30's when the Federal Theatre Project was of course breaking ground and seemingly every left wing union in NYC was backing a radical theatre company ( at least radical by the standards of the day ) Great book, , someone on the list will know who wrote it ( too lazy this early in the morning to research it , googling the title gets references to a chapter with that name in someone elses book,, not the book I am talking about ) 5 Lastly, , , Tim Robbins movie CRADLE WILL ROCK, , fairly accurate version of the events surrounding that night. Of course, , this whole incident is what got Orson Welles and John Houseman fired from the Federal Theatre Project (some would say they orchestrated this for their own publicity) and spurred the creation of THE MERCURY THEATRE, who's basically "converted" the Federal Theatre Project production of CRADLE into their own opening show. THE MERCURY THEATRE then created the radio drama WAR OF THE WORLDS, which caused Hollywood to bring Houseman and Welles to the west coast to do CITIZEN KANE, , etc etc etc etc. The Cradle Will Rock score faded into semi oblivion until a young Harvard music student discovered it, and restaged it on the Harvard campus, his name ? Leonard Bernstein. Bernstein later befriended Blitzstein and championed his operas. In addition to his operas (Regina probably the best known,, and done at the MET ever 7 - 10 years ) Blitzstein is responsible for the translation of THREE PENNY OPERA that most of us are familiar with. * for those interested in the re creation of opening night, , to my knowledge the only one of it's kind ever, , contact me off list. If anyone knows of another recreation of opening night please do contact me enough already, , to much thinking for this early in the morning, good luck with your research best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Welding Shop Equipment Message-ID: From: RHolen [at] vinu.edu Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 07:51:27 -0600 I am getting a new theatre and a new scene shop. I have been asked to put together a list of welding shop equipment. The air handling equipment has already been ordered. Any suggestions as to which is the best Brands and most useful. MIG, TIG, Chop Saw, Metal Band Saw, ie? I think I can get what I ask for? Richard D. Holen Professor Dept. of Theatre Vincennes University 1002 N. 1st Street Vincennes, IN 47591 Office: 812 888 5339 Home: 812 886 9135 Cell: 812 760 8000 rholen [at] indian.vinu.edu ------------------------------ Message-id: Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 09:23:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Censorship From: "Joshua Webb" References: In-Reply-To: O'Neill's "A Moon for the Misbegotten" had runs in Boston and Detroit cut short because the word 'mother' and 'whore' were used in the same sentence. ------------------------------ From: "Karl G. Ruling" Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 10:10:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals Reply-to: kruling [at] esta.org Message-ID: <42034A2C.8920.471227 [at] localhost> In-reply-to: > By chance there is a 600A three-phase disconnect that previously fed > some air conditioning equipment (air conditioning now comes from a > chiller plant across campus) available for feeding my dimmer rack. > There is about 170 feet of distance between the 600A disconnect and > the studio theatre where we are proposing to install a 200A > three-phase, company switch to power the dimmer rack. This project > will be done by facilities services here on campus. There was mention > of under-sizing the neutral between the 600A panel and the new company > switch. I've thrown a red flag but I am not exactly sure why. I have > heard of 200% neutrals, double neutrals, oversized neutrals and the > like to power dimmer racks and other switching power supplies but I am > not exactly sure what all of this means. The Facilities Services guys > looked at me funny and said something to the effect of "We'll make > sure and size the wire according to the load." But I got the feeling > they thought I was off my rocker, which may be true. > I'm surprised that Mitch Hefter or Eddie Kramer, guys who read this list and who are actually on the NEC panel for theatres, haven't jumped on this. As Brian James pointed out, 520.53 (O) (1) of the National Electrical Code (aka ANSI/NFPA 70) says the neutral terminal or equivalent on portable switchboard equipment "shall have an ampacity at least twice the ampacity of the largest ungrounded supply terminal." 520.53 (O) (2) says the "power supplying conductors for portable switchboards shall be sized considering the neutral as a current-carrying conductor. Where single-conductor feeder cables, not installed in raceways, are used on multiphase circuits, the grounded neutral conductor shall have an ampacity at least 130 percent of the ungrounded circuit conductors feeding the portable switchboard." But you shouldn't take my word for this; I'm just some guy on the Internet giving free advice. :-) You can either look up the NEC in a good library yourself or you can buy it and reference it. Both the old 2002 and the new 2005 editions of the NEC (NFPA 70) are for sale on ANSI's webstore, accessible at http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/default.asp. They cost $65 and you can download them right there. NFPA also sells its standards. http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/search.asp?action=search&query=70 takes you right to the NFPA 70 listing. The price is the same and you can get a hard-copy version from the NFPA (you can't from ANSI.) I've had some trouble with the security settings on some PDFs from NFPA and no trouble with the settings on documents from ANSI. By the way, it really helps if you actually have a copy of a standard handy when arguing with someone about what the standard says. You don't have to actually open it up and say, "See, it says here...." Simply having it shows you've done your homework and helps your credibility. Also, if you have it available and somehow you are wrong, the official can point to the contrary clause and you can learn something. There's no point in arguing from memory about what something says or how it should be interpreted. Someone a few years ago posted a link on this mailing list to an Excel spreadsheet that showed why an oversize neutral was needed. With this spreadsheet you could set three virtual SCR dimmers, one on each of the three phases, and it would calculate the neutral current. It works out that when the dimmer on phase A is at about half, the dimmer on phase B is at full, and the dimmer on phase C is at about half, the RMS current in the neutral is about 140% of the current in phase B, which is running at full. This is possible because the current draw from the other two phases, which are conducting only part of the time and are offset in time from phase B, fills in the sides of the sine wave flowing in the neutral from phase B, making the wave in the neutral close to a square wave. The instantaneous current in the neutral isn't higher than the maximum current that can flow in any one of the phases, but since there is no gentle ramp up and ramp down, the RMS (average) current is higher. This setting of half-full-half is worst case. If you increase phase A or C, or decrease phase B, the RMS current in the neutral goes down. ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:19:54 -0500 From: Mike Katz Subject: Re: NEC Jordan Hall Cc: johngib [at] cox.net (John Gibilisco) John, why not go to the new England conservatory website and contact the Jordan hall staff directly to ask about the ventilation. We are a community that tends to help each other if it is at all possible. They are good people over there. Mike snip >Dos anyone happen to have a video copy of the one-hour television special, >This Old Hall, featuring the renovation of New England Conservatory's Jordan >Hall? > >It was aired as part of the "This Old House" Series on PBS. Don't remember >the year but it probably aired around 95 or 96. > >I remember it covered the air handling in detail. I would like to see it >again so that I can review the installation of the ceiling air vent baffles >that were installed instead of a noisy metal finned vent. Snip -- Mike Katz Technical Director MIT Theater Arts Rinaldi Tile Building 77 Mass Ave E33-101 Cambridge MA 02139 617.253.0824 mkatz [at] mit.edu "Lunacy Abounds" ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Censorship / Cradle will Rock Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 07:22:06 -0800 Message-ID: <008501c50acd$4a039790$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: As I recall from my days at UCLA both as grad student and instructor, in all my meetings with John Houseman, he was indeed outspoken, and had referred to this incident several times. Doom -- Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. - www.riskit.com Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of IAEG [at] aol.com Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 5:17 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Censorship / Cradle will Rock For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 2/4/05 5:38:15 AM, stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com writes: >Do a web search on "The Cradle Will Rock". as some one who has produced and directed Mark Blitzstein's Cradle, , including an actual recreation of the famed opening night* , , with an unsuspecting audience I might add. here's where you need to research 1 HALLIE FLANAGAN's ARENA Story of the Federal Theatre Project as written by the Director of the project 2 John Houseman's Auto Biorgraphy,, this is a three volume work, ( and very fascinating reading!), and at the moment I can't recall the names of all three, , DRESS REHEARSAL I believe is the second installment that has the most complete description printed of the entire CRADLE WILL ROCK story 3 THE MAGIC OF LIGHT Jean Rosenthal,, yes the famed Lighting Designer was the Stage Manager for that production and played a vital role in the move 30 blocks up town that night. There a good discription of the event in this book and it was where I was first introduced to the "labour opera" But I can't say there's a great deal about the actual political background of the situation in this, 4 WHEN THEATRE WAS A WEAPON , Don't recall the author,, but a great source about the period in the 30's when the Federal Theatre Project was of course breaking ground and seemingly every left wing union in NYC was backing a radical theatre company ( at least radical by the standards of the day ) Great book, , someone on the list will know who wrote it ( too lazy this early in the morning to research it , googling the title gets references to a chapter with that name in someone elses book,, not the book I am talking about ) 5 Lastly, , , Tim Robbins movie CRADLE WILL ROCK, , fairly accurate version of the events surrounding that night. Of course, , this whole incident is what got Orson Welles and John Houseman fired from the Federal Theatre Project (some would say they orchestrated this for their own publicity) and spurred the creation of THE MERCURY THEATRE, who's basically "converted" the Federal Theatre Project production of CRADLE into their own opening show. THE MERCURY THEATRE then created the radio drama WAR OF THE WORLDS, which caused Hollywood to bring Houseman and Welles to the west coast to do CITIZEN KANE, , etc etc etc etc. The Cradle Will Rock score faded into semi oblivion until a young Harvard music student discovered it, and restaged it on the Harvard campus, his name ? Leonard Bernstein. Bernstein later befriended Blitzstein and championed his operas. In addition to his operas (Regina probably the best known,, and done at the MET ever 7 - 10 years ) Blitzstein is responsible for the translation of THREE PENNY OPERA that most of us are familiar with. * for those interested in the re creation of opening night, , to my knowledge the only one of it's kind ever, , contact me off list. If anyone knows of another recreation of opening night please do contact me enough already, , to much thinking for this early in the morning, good luck with your research best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Censorship Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 07:24:50 -0800 Message-ID: <008801c50acd$abc40190$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: Every time I produced and directed a Brecht play, I was always in trouble with locals. And you think with the present group in Power, it will change, not a chance. Read Bill Moyers recent article from a speech he gave recently and run for cover. doom -- Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. - www.riskit.com Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Herrick Goldman Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 5:14 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Censorship For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Once again I'll point you toward www.Irondale.org a few years ago we did a production called "Degenerate Art" it was an original piece based on Hitler's Entarte De Kunst art exhibit which in itself attempted to promote censorship. Irondale had frequently done work by Brecht, Shakespeare, and others and had always received small grants from The National Endowment for the Arts. On this occasion, based solely on the name of the project their grant request was denied. The irony was pretty sweet. I'm sure someone at the ensemble will be happy to discuss censorship in theater with you. Try Jim Niesen or Terry Griess. Hope that helps, -Herrick > At 05:37 AM 2/4/2005, Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote: >>> I'm writing a research paper on censorship in the theatre >>> (all around the world, any time), so I thought I'd ask...has >>> anyone ever run into problems? -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Censorship Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 07:26:43 -0800 Message-ID: <008901c50acd$ef5ead60$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: Remembering one fall sitting down, and I mean down, on the floor of some theater with the late playwright Robert E. Lee, with a bottle of his favorite Scotch, and musing about all the problems he had with Inherit the Wind. Egads. doom -- Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. - www.riskit.com Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of IAEG [at] aol.com Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 5:08 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Censorship For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 2/4/05 7:57:16 AM, mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com writes: >And "Corpus Christi" >And "Rent" and "Angels in America", , don't I recall some communities trying to ban or alter the touring production? best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ From: "Karl G. Ruling" Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 10:28:30 -0500 Subject: correction on neutral current spreadsheet Reply-to: kruling [at] esta.org Message-ID: <42034E4E.25036.573689 [at] localhost> I dug up the Excel spreadsheet I mentioned in an earlier post. It's properties say it was devised by Daniel Sheehan. It was downloaded in April 2001. I played with it and found that the worst case settings are actually 50%, 100%, 0%. Those settings result in 153% current being shown in the neutral. The spreadsheet shows the waveform in the neutral, and with those settings it looks pretty much like a square wave. The spreadsheet may not be perfect, but it does demonstrate how the neutral current can be higher than the current in any of the phases. ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Proper sizing of neutrals Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 07:29:36 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Joe Golden" Does anyone have the spreadsheet or the link still? I was just trying to explain to a co worker why to use double neutrals on a 96X2.4 touring rack with a full load. > Someone a few years ago posted a link on this mailing list to an =20 > Excel spreadsheet that showed why an oversize neutral was needed.=20 > With this spreadsheet you could set three virtual SCR dimmers, one on=20 > each of the three phases, and it would calculate the neutral current.=20 >=20 > It works out that when the dimmer on phase A is at about half, the=20 > dimmer on phase B is at full, and the dimmer on phase C is at about=20 > half, the RMS current in the neutral is about 140% of the current in=20 > phase B, which is running at full. This is possible because the=20 > current draw from the other two phases, which are conducting only=20 > part of the time and are offset in time from phase B, fills in the=20 > sides of the sine wave flowing in the neutral from phase B, making=20 > the wave in the neutral close to a square wave. The instantaneous=20 > current in the neutral isn't higher than the maximum current that can=20 > flow in any one of the phases, but since there is no gentle ramp up=20 > and ramp down, the RMS (average) current is higher. This setting of=20 > half-full-half is worst case. If you increase phase A or C, or=20 > decrease phase B, the RMS current in the neutral goes down. >=20 >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 09:30:04 -0600 From: Chuck Mitchell Subject: RE: Welding Shop Equipment In-reply-to: Message-id: <006201c50ace$669097e0$1fe25c90 [at] Chuck> Not knowing your budget, and going for the sky, I would add a cold cutting saw, and replace the chop saw with a dry saw. I hope the air handling has a component to exhaust welding fumes. Finally, add in some portable welding screens, to isolate welding activity when it must take place amongst other people and projects. And, let me know if you have funds left over. I'll send you a list for me! Chuck Mitchell Scene Studio Supervisor University Theatre-University of Wisconsin Madison 608-263-3330 FAX 608-265-4075 I am getting a new theatre and a new scene shop. I have been asked to put together a list of welding shop equipment. The air handling equipment has already been ordered. Any suggestions as to which is the best Brands and most useful. MIG, TIG, Chop Saw, Metal Band Saw, ie? I think I can get what I ask for? ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <149.3e5ff1e6.2f34ef49 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:31:21 EST Subject: Re: Censorship / Cradle will Rock In a message dated 2/4/05 10:22:18 AM, doomster [at] worldnet.att.net writes: > >As I recall from my days at UCLA both as grad student and instructor, in >all my meetings with John Houseman, he was indeed outspoken, and had >referred to this incident several times. Doom for the re creation of the opening night, , I portrayed Houseman, , a wonderful actor named Josh Sussman portrayed Welles (he was of the correct "proportion" ) and the music director / pianist Fullbright Fellow Bryan Shuler portrayed Blitzstein himself. Though my research I re created Houseman and Welles curtain speech, , along with Archibald Macleesh's (sic) intermission address to the audience from the seats. I documented the evening, , and sent it all to Houseman via a friend at The Acting Company, , and received a wonderful letter back from him, His autobiography is really a great read, , , highly recommended best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Censorship / Cradle will Rock Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 07:45:25 -0800 Message-ID: <00b301c50ad0$8bb70570$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: Neat. doom -- Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. - www.riskit.com Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of IAEG [at] aol.com Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 7:31 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Censorship / Cradle will Rock For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 2/4/05 10:22:18 AM, doomster [at] worldnet.att.net writes: > >As I recall from my days at UCLA both as grad student and instructor, in >all my meetings with John Houseman, he was indeed outspoken, and had >referred to this incident several times. Doom for the re creation of the opening night, , I portrayed Houseman, , a wonderful actor named Josh Sussman portrayed Welles (he was of the correct "proportion" ) and the music director / pianist Fullbright Fellow Bryan Shuler portrayed Blitzstein himself. Though my research I re created Houseman and Welles curtain speech, , along with Archibald Macleesh's (sic) intermission address to the audience from the seats. I documented the evening, , and sent it all to Houseman via a friend at The Acting Company, , and received a wonderful letter back from him, His autobiography is really a great read, , , highly recommended best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42039B0F.2090902 [at] jonesphillips.com> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 10:55:59 -0500 From: Chris Purpura Subject: Re: Censorship References: ....and there is the good o'l Texas theatre folk tale about Paul Baker directing Eugene O'Neil's Long Days Journey Into Night at Baylor Univ. The controversy was over the language and drug abuse by the mother in the play. A church group was offended by some of the language and content. They began a campaign against the production, and the Baylor President ordered Baker to close the play. Paul refused to edit this important aspect of the script and was asked to leave. (No one would ever abuse drugs at Baylor, so why talk about it? Or so my wife tells me, who is a grad herself) In response, Baker and his entire department, moved to Trinity University in San Antonio, Texas. Allegedly, the whole department went with him ransacking the theatre. Details are sketchy, but I think that is the gist. Chris Mike Brubaker wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > And "Corpus Christi" > And "Rent" > > Maybe three years ago (summer of 2001), at the end of the summer, a > student group at Indiana University Purdue University Ft. Wayne > (Indiana) presented a production of "Corpus Christi." The university > was sued by a group of legislators trying to stop the p > Mike Brubaker > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002301c50ad4$8681df90$80fea8c0 [at] Fred> From: "Mike Rock" References: Subject: Re: Welding Shop Equipment Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:13:55 -0600 My school has all miller equipment, I love it and it is easy to service and repair when some one maniges to break it. There are several in the metal tech area but the theater has its own. http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_210/ The only problem we have with it is when we were building a large set piece 9'*16ish the cords were not long enough, other than that it worked great. If you plan on doing alot of metal work what about a plasma cutter, great for making freehand cut outs. I used it to make a metal snowman and jack-o-lanterns out of 14 ga metal. took me longer to draw it then to cut it. ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:16:36 -0500 From: Mike Katz Subject: Re: Periaktoi Cc: awilliams [at] olivetcollege.edu (Arthur Williams) I have built several sets of periaktoi, and my most successful version was the simplest. I captured the top of the unit with a plywood plate with an oversized hole cut for the center pipe that got bolted to my (low) grid. I had a tight fitting UHMW Polyethylene washer that screwed to the plate to allow me to center the top and have a low friction top pivot. I captured the bottom of the pipe with a plug cut to the ID of the Pipe and screwed to the floor and slipped the pipe over that. I cut two 12" square washers out of 1/4" umhw poly, drilled a hole for the center pipe and put grease between the two layers of plastic and sat the periaktoi on the plates. No casters, no noise very easy to turn. Mike >snip >I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has experience with these >3-sided beasties. What sort of units did you end up using for the >actual turntables? How large were they? Most importantly, where did >you find them? Snip -- Mike Katz Technical Director MIT Theater Arts Rinaldi Tile Building 77 Mass Ave E33-101 Cambridge MA 02139 617.253.0824 mkatz [at] mit.edu "Lunacy Abounds" ------------------------------ From: "Jack Morones" Message-ID: Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:22:58 -0800 Subject: Re: Censorship I ran into the same experience in college where their was some contraversy about a show I directed. The show ended up selling out for all performances. -Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Brubaker Date: Friday, February 4, 2005 4:54 am Subject: Re: Censorship > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <" > target="l">http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>----------------------- > ---------------------------- > > And "Corpus Christi" > And "Rent" > > Maybe three years ago (summer of 2001), at the end of the summer, > a student > group at Indiana University Purdue University Ft. Wayne (Indiana) > presented > a production of "Corpus Christi." The university was sued by a > group of > legislators trying to stop the performance. The real irony is > that not > only did the legislators fail, the publicity meant that the > performances > were sold out--usual attendance for the student group's > productions was > generally less than stellar. Here's some links to the story: > > http://www.cultureandfamily.org/articledisplay.asp? id=113&department=CFI&categoryid=cfreport > http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=3244 > http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=14082 > > Mike Brubaker > > At 05:37 AM 2/4/2005, Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote: > > > I'm writing a research paper on censorship in the theatre > > > (all around the world, any time), so I thought I'd ask...has > > > anyone ever run into problems? > > > >Do a web search on "The Cradle Will Rock". > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 11:23:06 -0500 From: Richard Wolpert Subject: RE: Proper sizing of neutrals In-reply-to: Message-id: OK, I'll take a stab at this one.... I'm just speculating now, but I think the facilities people are talking about is providing a neutral that is sized to accommodate the "maximum net computed load current". If you're planning a 200A. Company Switch, they may size the neutral for a 200A. maximum load. It might be a 200% neutral for 200A., but would be considered "undersized" for the 600A. feeder. Like I said, I'm guessing here. What I'd be more concerned with is the size of the phase conductors. Unless the tap rule applies, they need to be sized for 600A.! Richard A.Wolpert President Union Connector Co., Inc. 40 Dale Street West Babylon, NY 11704 Ph: 631-753-9550 ext. 204 Fx: 631-753-9560 richw [at] unionconnector.com -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Curt Mortimore Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 12:56 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Proper sizing of neutrals For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- All, I am having difficulty searching the archives so forgive me if I am asking a question that has been discussed to death. I have inherited a brand-new-never-been-plugged-in 24 channel ETC Sensor portable dimmer rack. Bought new and been sitting in the corner for at least a year. There isn't anywhere to plug it in. By chance there is a 600A three-phase disconnect that previously fed some air conditioning equipment (air conditioning now comes from a chiller plant across campus) available for feeding my dimmer rack. There is about 170 feet of distance between the 600A disconnect and the studio theatre where we are proposing to install a 200A three-phase, company switch to power the dimmer rack. This project will be done by facilities services here on campus. There was mention of under-sizing the neutral between the 600A panel and the new company switch. I've thrown a red flag but I am not exactly sure why. I have heard of 200% neutrals, double neutrals, oversized neutrals and the like to power dimmer racks and other switching power supplies but I am not exactly sure what all of this means. The Facilities Services guys looked at me funny and said something to the effect of "We'll make sure and size the wire according to the load." But I got the feeling they thought I was off my rocker, which may be true. My guess is that this is probably a lot more complex than I anticipate but I need a direction to go in. Ideally what I am looking for is advice on what to say to the guys here on campus that will steer them in the direction they need to go to properly design this system. Does anyone have advice that may help me? Thank you! Curtis L. Mortimore Graceland University 1 University Place Lamoni, IA 50140 (641) 784-5265 ------------------------------ From: "Jack Morones" Message-ID: Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:25:14 -0800 Subject: Re: Censorship We just produced "Angels" and we got letters... I keep telling my higher ups that it's the patrons right to expres their opnion just as it is our right to disagree with them. -Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: IAEG [at] aol.com Date: Friday, February 4, 2005 5:07 am Subject: Re: Censorship > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <" > target="l">http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>----------------------- > ---------------------------- > > > In a message dated 2/4/05 7:57:16 AM, mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com writes: > > >And "Corpus Christi" > >And "Rent" > > > and "Angels in America", , don't I recall some communities trying > to ban or > alter the touring production? > > > > best, > > Keith Arsenault > > IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group > Tampa, Florida > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42038455.F368D131 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 09:19:01 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals References: Curt Mortimore wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > All, > > I am having difficulty searching the archives so forgive me if I am > asking a question that has been discussed to death. > > I have inherited a brand-new-never-been-plugged-in 24 channel ETC Sensor > portable dimmer rack. Bought new and been sitting in the corner for at > least a year. > > There isn't anywhere to plug it in. > > By chance there is a 600A three-phase disconnect that previously fed > some air conditioning equipment (air conditioning now comes from a > chiller plant across campus) available for feeding my dimmer rack. There > is about 170 feet of distance between the 600A disconnect and the studio > theatre where we are proposing to install a 200A three-phase, company > switch to power the dimmer rack. This project will be done by facilities > services here on campus. There was mention of under-sizing the neutral > between the 600A panel and the new company switch. I've thrown a red > flag but I am not exactly sure why. I have heard of 200% neutrals, > double neutrals, oversized neutrals and the like to power dimmer racks > and other switching power supplies but I am not exactly sure what all of > this means. The Facilities Services guys looked at me funny and said > something to the effect of "We'll make sure and size the wire according > to the load." But I got the feeling they thought I was off my rocker, > which may be true. > > My guess is that this is probably a lot more complex than I anticipate > but I need a direction to go in. Ideally what I am looking for is advice > on what to say to the guys here on campus that will steer them in the > direction they need to go to properly design this system. Does anyone > have advice that may help me? Because of the switching nature of the dimmers, and some black magic involving phase angles of the power usage, under certain conditions a three phase dimmer rack will put up to a 200% load on the neutral compared to a load leg. This is an uncommon situation, but it is called for in the NEC articles that deal with theatrical venues. This is just the opposite of normal resistive loads where you are allowed to undersize the neutral conductor. I don't have my NEC handy, so I can't quote the article number. Tell the electrician to look up his NEC and read the articles that deal with theatrical venues and with temporary power hookups. They are treated rather differently than what he or she is used to dealing with. For your hookup cables from the new drop to the dimmer rack, have the neutral cable be a couple of wire gauge sizes larger than the hot leg cables. Say your load cables are 2 AWG, have the neutral cable be 0 or 00 AWG. ( What size is dictated by the length and amperage, not having my NEC handy, I won't say what size they ought to be. ) ( also, AWG, the lower the number, the larger the conductor size. ) Also you you want to be careful with the allowable voltage drop under full load. Push medium hard to have them put in large enough cables that you don't lose more than a couple of volts from resistance losses. Larger gauge cables mean lower resistance, which translates into lower waste heat in the conduits and less voltage drop. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4203ACC9.40BB77F7 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:11:37 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: Welding Shop Equipment References: Mike Rock wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > My school has all miller equipment, I love it and it is easy to service and > repair when some one maniges to break it. There are several in the metal > tech area but the theater has its own. > http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_210/ The only problem we > have with it is when we were building a large set piece 9'*16ish the cords > were not long enough, other than that it worked great. If you plan on doing > alot of metal work what about a plasma cutter, great for making freehand cut > outs. I used it to make a metal snowman and jack-o-lanterns out of 14 ga > metal. took me longer to draw it then to cut it. Check around your campus and see if there are other metalworking shops. Going with the same model machines so you can share some of the specialty attachments or borrow back and forth may well be worth it for the goodwill points. You will also hopefully get some feedback, good or bad, about the brands. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4203ADF2.60202 [at] mninter.net> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 11:16:34 -0600 From: clindau Subject: fake palm trees Hey Rob--Can your budget afford fake palm leaves? The G does this kind of thing all the time--the cost of the plastic or silk leaves might offset the labor of making leaves out of felt, if that's what you were thinking of doing. And lots of times, the leaves can be reused. for things like planters, window boxes, etc etc. Hope this helps. Cindy Lindau Local 13 Guthrie Theater, Minneapolis MN Rob wrote: I am designing a show that will require realistic palm trees that vary in height from 10 to 18 feet. Anyone done this kind of thing before? My first thought is bent sq tube w/ chicken wire attached and then wrap with burlap. Add felt leaves and poof a palm tree. Any thoughts? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1107538917.4203b3e5a38a5 [at] webmail> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 12:41:57 -0500 From: doran [at] bard.edu Subject: Re: Censorship References: In-Reply-To: Hey, all, 20-odd years ago, in a small Summer stock in Ames, Iowa, we did _Sister Mary..._. Advance sales were iffy, but we sold out every show when people from the Catholic Church across the street started picketing the theater. The local press covered the protests pretty heavily, and we even had coverage of somebody "threatening" us by covertly tearing up the posted 8x10s of the cast members. Two years later, I found out that our own stage manager distributed flyers at the Church, tore up the pics herself, anonymously tipped off the local papers and radio, and pretty much orchestrated the whole thing in order to boost ticket sales. It seems that she knew that cencorship, real or manufactured, can draw attention and box office $. Pretty sneaky, but it worked. Just for what it's worth, Andy Champ-Doran Quoting Jack Morones : > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I ran into the same experience in college where their was some > contraversy about a show I directed. The show ended up selling out > for all performances. > > -Jack > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mike Brubaker > Date: Friday, February 4, 2005 4:54 am > Subject: Re: Censorship > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <" > > target="l">http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>----------------------- > > ---------------------------- > > > > And "Corpus Christi" > > And "Rent" > > > > Maybe three years ago (summer of 2001), at the end of the summer, > > a student > > group at Indiana University Purdue University Ft. Wayne (Indiana) > > presented > > a production of "Corpus Christi." The university was sued by a > > group of > > legislators trying to stop the performance. The real irony is > > that not > > only did the legislators fail, the publicity meant that the > > performances > > were sold out--usual attendance for the student group's > > productions was > > generally less than stellar. Here's some links to the story: > > > > http://www.cultureandfamily.org/articledisplay.asp? > id=113&department=CFI&categoryid=cfreport > > http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=3244 > > http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp? documentID=14082 > > > > Mike Brubaker > > > > At 05:37 AM 2/4/2005, Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote: > > > > I'm writing a research paper on censorship in the theatre > > > > (all around the world, any time), so I thought I'd ask...has > > > > anyone ever run into problems? > > > > > >Do a web search on "The Cradle Will Rock". > > > > > ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 12:45:39 EST Subject: Re: piano tuning In a message dated 04/02/05 01:08:42 GMT Standard Time, IAEG [at] aol.com writes: > 440 hz is the "default" "concert pitch" but by choice and practice it varies > > greatly amongst the great orchestras of the world, , some European > orchestras > tune as high as 444 > > I have heard of one ( not in Europe, and not in my memory at the moment ) > that tunes as low as 439 > > the differences are not noticable to the "average ear" but obviously the > music directors of these orchestras feel that there is a difference, > > It's thought that the A above high C in late classical , early romantic time > > might was significantly lower and that over time relative pitch has risen. There has always been a tendency for pitch to creep upwards, particularly in the early years of the last century. This was why A=440 was eventually agreed on intrnationally. It is the pitch around which all instruments are designed. Just imagine the problems caused to a oboist by a 1% upward shift. Every note has to be pulled up, which is hard on an oboe. That's why the orchestra always tunes to it, because it is difficult to get off tune. Of course the exact frequency of the note will depend on the temperature and humidity in the hall. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Censorship Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:54:04 -0800 Message-ID: <00e301c50ae2$84ae76c0$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: I cannot recall the show in California back in the sixties that created havoc, because it was done at one of the State colleges. Small title, and sex, etc. Heads rolled, as I recall. It is just too far back in my mind to recall, even though I was directing in those days. Anyone remember the show or the incident: The ...??????? Doom -- Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. - www.riskit.com Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jack Morones Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 8:23 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Censorship For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- I ran into the same experience in college where their was some contraversy about a show I directed. The show ended up selling out for all performances. -Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Brubaker Date: Friday, February 4, 2005 4:54 am Subject: Re: Censorship > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <" > target="l">http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>----------------------- > ---------------------------- > > And "Corpus Christi" > And "Rent" > > Maybe three years ago (summer of 2001), at the end of the summer, > a student > group at Indiana University Purdue University Ft. Wayne (Indiana) > presented > a production of "Corpus Christi." The university was sued by a > group of > legislators trying to stop the performance. The real irony is > that not > only did the legislators fail, the publicity meant that the > performances > were sold out--usual attendance for the student group's > productions was > generally less than stellar. Here's some links to the story: > > http://www.cultureandfamily.org/articledisplay.asp? id=113&department=CFI&categoryid=cfreport > http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=3244 > http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=14082 > > Mike Brubaker > > At 05:37 AM 2/4/2005, Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote: > > > I'm writing a research paper on censorship in the theatre > > > (all around the world, any time), so I thought I'd ask...has > > > anyone ever run into problems? > > > >Do a web search on "The Cradle Will Rock". > > ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Censorship Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:55:53 -0800 Message-ID: <00e601c50ae2$ca55bb70$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: I recall that sad incident. doom -- Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. - www.riskit.com Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Chris Purpura Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 7:56 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Censorship For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- ....and there is the good o'l Texas theatre folk tale about Paul Baker directing Eugene O'Neil's Long Days Journey Into Night at Baylor Univ. The controversy was over the language and drug abuse by the mother in the play. A church group was offended by some of the language and content. They began a campaign against the production, and the Baylor President ordered Baker to close the play. Paul refused to edit this important aspect of the script and was asked to leave. (No one would ever abuse drugs at Baylor, so why talk about it? Or so my wife tells me, who is a grad herself) In response, Baker and his entire department, moved to Trinity University in San Antonio, Texas. Allegedly, the whole department went with him ransacking the theatre. Details are sketchy, but I think that is the gist. Chris Mike Brubaker wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > And "Corpus Christi" > And "Rent" > > Maybe three years ago (summer of 2001), at the end of the summer, a > student group at Indiana University Purdue University Ft. Wayne > (Indiana) presented a production of "Corpus Christi." The university > was sued by a group of legislators trying to stop the p > Mike Brubaker > ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:01:25 EST Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals In a message dated 04/02/05 05:56:24 GMT Standard Time, cmortimo [at] graceland.edu writes: > There was mention of under-sizing the neutral > between the 600A panel and the new company switch. I've thrown a red > flag but I am not exactly sure why. I have heard of 200% neutrals, > double neutrals, oversized neutrals and the like to power dimmer racks > and other switching power supplies but I am not exactly sure what all of > this means. The Facilities Services guys looked at me funny and said > something to the effect of "We'll make sure and size the wire according > to the load." But I got the feeling they thought I was off my rocker, > which may be true. The standard UK practice is to size the neutral exactly the same as the live feeds. While it normally has to carry only the 'out of balance', current, this can be substantial in a theatre lighting rig. Some of us on the list say that double neutrals are needed, and claim that the third and ninth harmonics generated by dimmers will add in the neutral. I am not among them. What determines the heating in a cable, by which its size is determined, is the RMS current. If your dimmers are putting out significant quantities of harmonics, the power supply company may be unhappy. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1b8.c2632ba.2f3513ea [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:07:38 EST Subject: Re: Censorship In a message dated 2/4/05 12:59:53 PM, doran [at] bard.edu writes: >20-odd years ago, in a small Summer stock in Ames, Iowa, we did _Sister > > >Mary..._. Sister Mary Ignatius caused a stirr in Boston, , even had the mayor out picketing the theatre along with Catholic church leaders best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:14:34 GMT Subject: Re: Censorship Message-Id: <20050204.101516.12571.17922 [at] webmail05.lax.untd.com> I produced the longest running show in Los Angeles history, "Is Nudity Required?" that ran for 10 years with 50 different casts, including some 'names' that would do brief runs. It did NOT have nudity in it, but somehow one or more competing theatres and/or reviewers reported it did without ever seeing it. The playwright bought a duplex after being disparaged all the way to the bank. David Merrick would be proud. /s/ Richard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:16:35 -0500 From: Chris Davis Subject: Re: listening assistance systems In-reply-to: Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20050204130639.00a1a1a0 [at] mail-hub.optonline.net> References: At 03:58 PM 2/3/2005 -0500, Michael Feinberg wrote: >Actually, I think they were right. My understanding of I-Caption is that >its server monitors the current light cue and text is advanced based to a >preprogrammed point corresponding with that cue. I don't know if it's >through DMX, MIDI, ethernet, or something else It monitors midi, primarily from lighting, but also from sound and motion control. The I-Caption (used to be know as Showtrans) cues are placed with specific delays based on the incoming midi events... Chris Davis cdavis [at] optonline.net Associate Lighting Supervisor Queens Theatre In The Park ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <5b.62b9b147.2f351747 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:21:59 EST Subject: Re: Censorship In a message dated 2/4/05 1:17:03 PM, ladesigners [at] juno.com writes: > >I produced the longest running show in Los Angeles history, "Is Nudity >Required?" that ran for 10 years with 50 different casts, including some >'names' that would do brief runs. It did NOT have nudity in it, but somehow >one or more competing theatres and/or reviewers reported it did without >ever seeing it. The playwright bought a duplex after being disparaged all >the way to the bank. David Merrick would be proud. >/s/ Richard let us not forget that the second or third longest running Broadway musical is Oh, Calcutta! , , Pilobolus performances with the caveat " Mature audiences only, partial nudity " sell out to audiences who would never go to modern dance once when i was working in Puerto Rico it seemed that local theatre companies were putting gratuitous nudity into anything to help sell tickets, , they find a way to put a bare ass or breast in Neil Simon ( en espanol ) on a regular basis. College theatre programs did have and still have problems doing EQUUS with the male and female nudity best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:32:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Censorship From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: On the other hand I'm always amused by the surprised touristas who never read a review. My wife and I saw "Frankie and Johnny" on Broadway a few seasons ago it starred the wife (I forget her name) from the Sopranos and Stanley Tucci. (They were great!) But during the opening sex scene the woman behind me says aloud to her boyfriend (in the perfect Jersey accent) "Omigawd thayr Nakid!" like this was some sort of surprise. Clearly she had just come to see a Sopranos cast member and could have been seeing Anne of Green Gables for all she knew. I think they left at intermission. -H On 2/4/05 1:21 PM, "IAEG [at] aol.com" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > let us not forget that the second or third longest running Broadway musical > is Oh, Calcutta! , , > > Pilobolus performances with the caveat " Mature audiences only, partial > nudity " sell out to audiences who would never go to modern dance > -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <103.5a4c50d7.2f351a20 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:34:08 EST Subject: Re: Censorship In a message dated 2/4/05 1:33:19 PM, Herrick [at] HGLightingDesign.com writes: >My wife and I saw "Frankie and Johnny" on Broadway a few >seasons ago it starred the wife (I forget her name) from the Sopranos and >Stanley Tucci. (They were great!) Edie Falco ------------------------------ Message-ID: <48376.208.215.238.2.1107542115.squirrel [at] webmail2.pair.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 12:35:15 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals From: ". Mitch Hefter" Reply-To: mitch.hefter [at] DesignRelief.com Curtis said: > The Facilities Services guys looked at me funny and said > something to the effect of "We'll make sure and size the wire according > to the load." But I got the feeling they thought I was off my rocker, > which may be true. Nope - you're on the right track: NEC 2002 (and 2005) 520.53 (O): Neutral. (1) Neutral Terminal. In portable switchboard equipment designed for use with 3-phase, 4-wire with ground supply, the supply neutral terminal, its associated busbar, or equivalent wiring, or both, shall have an ampacity equal to at least twice the ampacity of the largest ungrounded supply terminal. Exception: Where portable switchboard equipment is specifically constructed and identified to be internally converted in the field, in an approved manner, from use with a balanced 3-phase, 4-wire with ground supply to a balanced single-phase, 3-wire with ground supply, the supply neutral terminal and its associated busbar, equivalent wiring, or both, shall have an ampacity equal to at least that of the largest ungrounded single-phase supply terminal. (2) Supply Neutral. The power supply conductors for portable switchboards shall be sized considering the neutral as a current-carrying conductor. Where single-conductor feeder cables, not installed in raceways, are used on multiphase circuits, the grounded neutral conductor shall have an ampacity of at least 130 percent of the ungrounded circuit conductors feeding the portable switchboard. ==== Other parts of the Code tell you that the neutral must be sized considering it a current-carrying conductor. Also, I believe the 2005 NEC has eliminated the ability to underate neutrals in any situation (my Code book is at home, so I can't tell you specifically now). Hope this helps. . . . ------------------------------------- Mitch Hefter mitch.hefter [at] DesignRelief.com Member NEC Panel 15 Office: Entertainment Technology / a Division of the Genlyte Group mhefter [at] genlyte.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:44:05 -0600 Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals From: Greg Persinger Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Karl Ruling Wrote: > As Brian James pointed out, 520.53 (O) (1) of the National > Electrical Code (aka ANSI/NFPA 70) says the neutral terminal or > equivalent on portable switchboard equipment "shall have an ampacity > at least twice the ampacity of the largest ungrounded supply > terminal." This would be inside of the portable switchboard otherwise known as a dimmer rack. ETC has taken care of this. The largest ungrounded supply terminal needed to supply full power to this rack is 160Amps. The Camloks are rated for 400 Amps as well as the neutral bus bar inside the rack. >520.53 (O) (2) says the "power supplying conductors for > portable switchboards shall be sized considering the neutral as a > current-carrying conductor. Where single-conductor feeder cables, not > installed in raceways, are used on multiphase circuits, the grounded > neutral conductor shall have an ampacity at least 130 percent of the > ungrounded circuit conductors feeding the portable switchboard." So at 160Amps x 3 conductors = 480Amps oversize by 30% and I get 624Amps that your neutral should be able to carry. Am I correct in my interpretation? If so you need two pieces of Four Ott as parallel cable runs must be the same size. Here is where it doesn't make sense. By code the neutral buss bar only has to be rated for an ampacity at least twice the ampacity of the largest ungrounded supply terminal (200Amps) which in this case would be 400Amps. So the neutral bus in the rack is rated for 224Amps less than the conductors feeding the dimmer. By code the fused disconnect does not need an oversized neutral so in a 200Amp disconnect the neutral would be undersized by 424Amps in this scenario. What gives!???? I understand the neutral bus in a rack needing to be twice the ampacity of the largest ungrounded supply terminal, as the bus bar is a current carrying conductor internally to all loads. Via this bus either the current is phase cancelled or the imbalance drains to ground via the supply neutral conductor cable. No problem here. Believe me when I say I understand about overloading the neutral as I have seen branch circuit neutral wires burnt in half where the circuits shared a neutral. Of course this was only on a 20Amp circuit but I grasp the overload concept. What I don't understand is such extreme over rating of the grounded neutral conductor between the disconnect and the rack. My question is if the neutral in the disconnect is not over rated then why bother with over rating the grounded neutral conductor between the disconnect and the rack? Is it because the minds at NEC figure it is OK for a neutral to burn up in a piece of conduit but they don't want a meltdown of feeder out in the open air? I understand the science, but common sense says if the whole system is not equally rated then over rating one piece because some guys somewhere decided I should, is a waste of my time and money. The best analogy I can think of at the moment is this. If you are building a truss system and rate all of the truss and rigging to handle a 1 ton load, factoring in a safety factor, etc., but hang this off of two pieces of Unistrut capable of only holding 200 pounds each, you have wasted a lot of effort and money by over engineering the system. Don't get me wrong. I am overall grateful for the guidance that NEC provides, but there are a few things like this that leave me scratching my head. Mitch or Eddie care to help me understand. Thanks. Greg Persinger Vivid Illumination Greg [at] Vividillumination.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:08:10 -0600 From: Mick Alderson Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals Message-id: > >Subject: Proper sizing of neutrals >Message-ID: >The Facilities Services guys looked at me funny and said >something to the effect of "We'll make sure and size the wire according >to the load." But I got the feeling they thought I was off my rocker, >which may be true. > >My guess is that this is probably a lot more complex than I anticipate >but I need a direction to go in. Ideally what I am looking for is advice >on what to say to the guys here on campus that will steer them in the >direction they need to go to properly design this system. Does anyone >have advice that may help me? > >Thank you! > >Curtis L. Mortimore >Graceland University >1 University Place >Lamoni, IA 50140 >(641) 784-5265 > and "James, Brian" responded: > >Try the NEC, articles 518 and 520. Both have some specific information = >about 3 phase systems and the supply neutral.=20 > >Article 520.53 may be particularly useful >(page 424 in the 2002 NEC, bottom right of the page or page 433 in the = >2005 NEC, left side of the page). > >Both are under (O) Neutral number 1 > What he said. IIRC, I believe what you will find is that the Neutral must be sized to handle a load 130% of what the individual hots do. Which means that for 4/0 hots, you need a neutral of about 350 mcm. Road shows will often double the neutral instead. This is overkill, but is simpler than carrying two different sizes of feeder. For a permanent install, the "130%" wire would make more sense. Complex? Depends on whether or not you believe in harmonics. SCR dimmers seem to make them, and the loads leg-to-leg are often not balanced. As far as I'm concerned, if the Code says do it, I wouldn't argue. Mick Alderson TD, Fredric March Theatre University of Wisconsin Oshkosh alderson [at] uwosh.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:04:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals From: Greg Persinger Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mick Alderson wrote: > What he said. IIRC, I believe what you will find is that the Neutral must > be sized to handle a load 130% of what the individual hots do. Is it 130% of the largest hot leg of feeder or 130% of all hot legs of feeder. To me it reads 130% of all hot legs but it is vague. Comments. Greg Persinger Vivid Illumination Greg [at] Vividillumination.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050204120817.00b84d50 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:08:17 From: CB Subject: Re: Piano tuner >You can learn >to be a piano tuner yourself. Skills required include "Normal >hearing, patience, average finger dexterity, and a willingness to >learn...." Frank has been accused of many things, but "a willingness to learn..."? Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound OTR Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ From: "Kevin Linzey" Subject: FW: Proper sizing of neutrals Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:14:23 -0500 Message-ID: <004401c50aed$bcc6cfc0$1101a8c0 [at] KLinzeypc> Curt, I posted a similar question on the show power list and Mitch Hefter responded to it. (I wanted to know why the oversized neutral = requirement wasn't spelled out for installed racks.) Here is the "long winded" part = of the explanation by Mitch. I've also attached the xls worksheet that demonstrates the problem that = was posted to the list several years ago. Email me directly if you want a = copy since the list deletes attachments. Kevin Kevin Linzey Fisher Theatrical, LLC. Cell: 443-415-4587 Office: 410-455-9641 Fax: 410-455-9643 http://www.fishertheatrical.com/ "Now for the long winded explanation: In Chapter 3 (article 310), there is a requirement that "on a 4-wire,=20 3-phase wye circuit where the major portion of the load consists of=20 nonlinear loads, harmonic currents are present in the neutral conductor; = the neutral shall therefore be considered a current-carrying=20 conductor." Solid-state dimming equipment creates this environment = (note=20 that while the loads may be linear, the method of controlling them = results=20 in the appearance of non-linear loads to the power grid). As this is = not=20 always obvious to some people, we added 520.27(B) to make sure the = neutral=20 is counted as a current-carrying conductor (because of the=20 harmonics). Therefore, since you have 4- current carrying conductors in = the conduit feeding the dimmer bank, you have to derate them to 80%. = Which=20 means you will usually have to "up size" the conductors. There have been proposals to put language in the Code specific for 130%=20 (and even up to 200%) neutrals. These have not succeeded for two basic=20 reasons. 1) believe it or not, the Code tries not to be too=20 repetitive. This issue is really dealt with in Chapters 1 - 4 and = 520.27. 2) in tests run by Production Arts during the 1987 Code = revision=20 cycle, data on overloading of the neutral revealed a worst case of ~130% = (this was the root of the 130% requirement for portable=20 feeders). Curiously, this overload occurred when one of the phase=20 conductors was not conducting. Since you have 4 current-carrying=20 conductors in the conduit, and as such they are [at] 125% of the 3-conductor = rating. But the overload occurs when you are in a 3 current-carrying=20 conductor mode, so you really are only 5% overloaded. Sounds a little=20 shaky, I know. However, Ken Vannice (of Colortran) and I ran some crude = calculations during these Code panel deliberations and determined that = the=20 heat load in the conduit was worse with the 3 phase conductors running = full=20 and no neutral current than in the "overloaded neutral" condition. = These=20 points plus no demonstration of problems due to this issue (a large part = due to conservative system design and our industry's diversified load=20 utilization) resulted in no action by the Code panel - the provisions in = place were adequate. New facts and data can always change this. P.S. - these comments are not official positions from NFPA, NEC, ESTA, = nor=20 USITT. . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mitch Hefter mitch.hefter [at] DesignRelief.com Member - NEC Panel 15 Member ESTA Technical Standards Committee & Electrical Power Working = Group" > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf > Of Karl G. Ruling > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 10:11 AM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals >=20 >=20 > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- >=20 > > By chance there is a 600A three-phase disconnect that > previously fed > > some air conditioning equipment (air conditioning now comes from a > > chiller plant across campus) available for feeding my dimmer rack.=20 > > There is about 170 feet of distance between the 600A disconnect and=20 > > the studio theatre where we are proposing to install a 200A=20 > > three-phase, company switch to power the dimmer rack. This project=20 > > will be done by facilities services here on campus. There=20 > was mention > > of under-sizing the neutral between the 600A panel and the > new company > > switch. I've thrown a red flag but I am not exactly sure > why. I have > > heard of 200% neutrals, double neutrals, oversized neutrals and the > > like to power dimmer racks and other switching power=20 > supplies but I am > > not exactly sure what all of this means. The Facilities > Services guys > > looked at me funny and said something to the effect of "We'll make > > sure and size the wire according to the load." But I got=20 > the feeling > > they thought I was off my rocker, which may be true. > >=20 >=20 > I'm surprised that Mitch Hefter or Eddie Kramer, guys who read this > list and who are actually on the NEC panel for theatres, haven't=20 > jumped on this. >=20 > As Brian James pointed out, 520.53 (O) (1) of the National > Electrical Code (aka ANSI/NFPA 70) says the neutral terminal or=20 > equivalent on portable switchboard equipment "shall have an ampacity=20 > at least twice the ampacity of the largest ungrounded supply=20 > terminal." 520.53 (O) (2) says the "power supplying conductors for=20 > portable switchboards shall be sized considering the neutral as a=20 > current-carrying conductor. Where single-conductor feeder cables, not=20 > installed in raceways, are used on multiphase circuits, the grounded=20 > neutral conductor shall have an ampacity at least 130 percent of the=20 > ungrounded circuit conductors feeding the portable switchboard."=20 >=20 > But you shouldn't take my word for this; I'm just some guy on the > Internet giving free advice. :-) You can either look up the NEC in a=20 > good library yourself or you can buy it and reference it. Both the=20 > old 2002 and the new 2005 editions of the NEC (NFPA 70) are for sale=20 > on ANSI's webstore, accessible at=20 > http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstore/default.asp. They cost $65 and=20 > you can download them right there. NFPA also sells its standards.=20 > http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/search.asp?action=3Dsearch&query=3D70 = takes=20 > you right to the NFPA 70 listing. The price is the same and you can=20 > get a hard-copy version from the NFPA (you can't from ANSI.) I've=20 > had some trouble with the security settings on some PDFs from NFPA=20 > and no trouble with the settings on documents from ANSI.=20 >=20 > By the way, it really helps if you actually have a copy of a standard > handy when arguing with someone about what the standard says. You=20 > don't have to actually open it up and say, "See, it says here...."=20 > Simply having it shows you've done your homework and helps your=20 > credibility. Also, if you have it available and somehow you are=20 > wrong, the official can point to the contrary clause and you can=20 > learn something. There's no point in arguing from memory about what=20 > something says or how it should be interpreted.=20 >=20 > Someone a few years ago posted a link on this mailing list to an > Excel spreadsheet that showed why an oversize neutral was needed.=20 > With this spreadsheet you could set three virtual SCR dimmers, one on=20 > each of the three phases, and it would calculate the neutral current.=20 >=20 > It works out that when the dimmer on phase A is at about half, the > dimmer on phase B is at full, and the dimmer on phase C is at about=20 > half, the RMS current in the neutral is about 140% of the current in=20 > phase B, which is running at full. This is possible because the=20 > current draw from the other two phases, which are conducting only=20 > part of the time and are offset in time from phase B, fills in the=20 > sides of the sine wave flowing in the neutral from phase B, making=20 > the wave in the neutral close to a square wave. The instantaneous=20 > current in the neutral isn't higher than the maximum current that can=20 > flow in any one of the phases, but since there is no gentle ramp up=20 > and ramp down, the RMS (average) current is higher. This setting of=20 > half-full-half is worst case. If you increase phase A or C, or=20 > decrease phase B, the RMS current in the neutral goes down. >=20 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <94362320C141D9118C1A00110AA0980671D87F [at] EXCHANGE> From: Kevin Ruud Subject: RE: Proper sizing of neutrals Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:23:28 -0500 The code requirement will give you the minimum size that the neutral can be. We always take that and double it to cut down on noise gernerated by the harmonics of the phase controlled dimmers and the uneven loading that is inherent in theater lighting systmes durning operation. There are even others who reccomend to tripple it, but we have found that the doubleing works fine. Kevin Ruud ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050204122649.00b84d50 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:26:49 From: CB Subject: Freelance Status >This peeked my interest. If we are not a independent contractors then >what are we? Employees. I dunno about where you are, but I don't fit (exactly) into the description of "independent contractor". For example, I tend to not bring my own tools. I also tend to have a specific call time. Just two ways the US govt. distinguishes employees from IC's. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound OTR Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050204123828.00b84d50 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:38:28 From: CB Subject: RE: listening assistance systems >What are the group's thoughts on this new technology for the theatre? It >cost Wicked $10,000. How does this cost compare to existing infrared >systems? I'm a bit involved with a similar system, on a much smaller scale. I think I can get it done for a lot less than ten grand, but what do I know... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050204124303.00b84d50 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:43:03 From: CB Subject: Re: Freelance Status >But to just be flip and assume that the >person asking is going to just do what is said here is short sighted. Oh please, like that would never happen. Actually, you're right, there is no way to tell how much experience you have had, but given that, I should have added the caveat, "Anyone that changes their life based on my opinion gets what they deserve!" Cheers! Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound OTR Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050204124654.00b84d50 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:46:54 From: CB Subject: Re: We Ride!! Gas Mileage > If I understand correctly, the V Max has a 4 gallon tank. Does it >really only get 25 mpg? I think I may have an ole BMW tank lying around that you may adapt to your scoot. It's a GSPD tank, 9.6 US gal. "We're gonna need a bigger bike!" Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound OTR Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050204124923.00b84d50 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 12:49:23 From: CB Subject: RE: KC > >Yup! Lots of great BBQ!! And it's probably the best in the world! Hidden behind all that red sauce, how can you tell? I think you need to get out more. Meet me in Austin, we'll take a thirty minute drive that'll change your life, sorta like 'getting a new religion' barbecue. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound OTR Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4203FD4D.30403 [at] fuse.net> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 17:55:09 -0500 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Re: Censorship References: In-Reply-To: Dawn Ashley wrote: > I'm writing a research paper on censorship in the theatre > (all around the world, any time), so I thought I'd ask...has > anyone ever run into problems? Any feedback would be greatly > appreciated and I promise if I use your comments I will > properly cite you! I recall a case where we had to soften some language in a Mamet play. The sponsoring company was invited to Final Dress (sponsor preview) and without asking the theatre, and without being warned, decided it was perfect family fare and told everybody to bring the kids! We did put the real words back for the opening and all the shows! Walk up to your Staff scenic artist and say, "Poor Superman" Stuart ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 17:50:17 EST Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals In a message dated 04/02/05 16:23:01 GMT Standard Time, richw [at] unionconnector.com writes: > I'm just speculating now, but I think the facilities people are talking > about is providing a neutral that is sized to accommodate the "maximum net > computed load current". If you're planning a 200A. Company Switch, they may > size the neutral for a 200A. maximum load. It might be a 200% neutral for > 200A., but would be considered "undersized" for the 600A. feeder. Like I > said, I'm guessing here. What I'd be more concerned with is the size of the > phase conductors. Unless the tap rule applies, they need to be sized for > 600A.! If it's a 200A feed, it ought to be protected by 200A fuses or breakers. This is axiomatic in power distribution. The fuse or breaker must protect all the wiring down to the next fuse or breaker, right down to the individual circuit. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:03:30 EST Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals In a message dated 04/02/05 16:48:16 GMT Standard Time, dale [at] cybercom.net writes: > Because of the switching nature of the dimmers, and some black magic > involving phase angles of the power usage, under certain conditions a > three phase dimmer rack will put up to a 200% load on the neutral > compared to a load leg. This is an uncommon situation, but it is called > for in the NEC articles that deal with theatrical venues. This is just the > opposite of normal resistive loads where you are allowed to undersize > the neutral conductor. I don't have my NEC handy, so I can't quote > the article number. If the NEC calls for it, do it. It may not be right, but it's the code. I am far too lazy to do the sums myself, but might when my current show is over. But do remember that big harmonic contents come at reduced power. > Also you you want to be careful with the allowable voltage drop > under full load. Push medium hard to have them put in large enough > cables that you don't lose more than a couple of volts from resistance > losses. Larger gauge cables mean lower resistance, which translates > into lower waste heat in the conduits and less voltage drop. This should be allowed for in the code. I appreciate that is a bigger problem for those of you struggling with 120V. The currents are higher, and you have no volts to spare. On 230V, the problems are smaller. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:12:03 EST Subject: Re: Censorship In a message dated 04/02/05 18:17:03 GMT Standard Time, ladesigners [at] juno.com writes: > I produced the longest running show in Los Angeles history, "Is Nudity > Required?" that ran for 10 years with 50 different casts, including some ' > names' that would do brief runs. It did NOT have nudity in it, but somehow > one or more competing theatres and/or reviewers reported it did without ever > seeing it. The playwright bought a duplex after being disparaged all the way > to the bank. David Merrick would be proud. Don't forget Verdi's opera "Un Ballo in Maschera". This was first produced when Italy was under Austrian rule, and the censors considered that the assassination of a King should not be staged. hence, the setting was transferred to the US, with an ambassador being assassinated. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <9b.58740999.2f355c20 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:15:44 EST Subject: Re: Censorship In a message dated 2/4/05 6:12:39 PM, FrankWood95 [at] aol.com writes: >Don't forget Verdi's opera "Un Ballo in Maschera". This was first produced > >when Italy was under Austrian rule, and the censors considered that the > >assassination of a King should not be staged. hence, the setting was transferred >to >the US, with an ambassador being assassinated. > > >Frank Wood Opera News in fact has a full article in a recent edition about Censorship in Opera best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:32:48 EST Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals In a message dated 04/02/05 18:36:29 GMT Standard Time, mitch.hefter [at] DesignRelief.com writes: > Neutral. > (1) Neutral Terminal. In portable switchboard equipment designed for use > with 3-phase, 4-wire with ground supply, the supply neutral terminal, its > associated busbar, or equivalent wiring, or both, shall have an ampacity > equal to at least twice the ampacity of the largest ungrounded supply > terminal. Why? Engineering reasons are needed, here. > Exception: Where portable switchboard equipment is specifically > constructed and identified to be internally converted in the field, in an > approved manner, from use with a balanced 3-phase, 4-wire with ground > supply to a balanced single-phase, 3-wire with ground supply, the supply > neutral terminal and its associated busbar, equivalent wiring, or both, > shall have an ampacity equal to at least that of the largest ungrounded > single-phase supply terminal. With this, I agree. But all this is about p9ortable equipment. Nothing is said about fixed installations. > (2) Supply Neutral. The power supply conductors for portable switchboards > shall be sized considering the neutral as a current-carrying conductor. > Where single-conductor feeder cables, not installed in raceways, are used > on multiphase circuits, the grounded neutral conductor shall have an > ampacity of at least 130 percent of the ungrounded circuit conductors > feeding the portable switchboard. Again, why? In the case of the ultimate inbalance, with the whole load on one phase, the neutral has to carry the load current, and the cable should be rated accordingly. As the load on the other phases increases, the neutral currewn will diminish, until the point where a perfect balance is achieved, and the neutral current will be zero. I note that all these posts refer to the Code for temporary installations. Information on fixed installations would be a help. > > ==== > Other parts of the Code tell you that the neutral must be sized > considering it a current-carrying conductor. Also, I believe the 2005 NEC > has eliminated the ability to underate neutrals in any situation (my Code > book is at home, so I can't tell you specifically now). > > Hope this helps. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:51:10 EST Subject: Re: FW: Proper sizing of neutrals In a message dated 04/02/05 19:16:52 GMT Standard Time, Klinzey [at] nemetschek.net writes: > "Now for the long winded explanation: > In Chapter 3 (article 310), there is a requirement that "on a 4-wire, > 3-phase wye circuit where the major portion of the load consists of > nonlinear loads, harmonic currents are present in the neutral conductor; > the neutral shall therefore be considered a current-carrying > conductor." fer crye eye eye eye. The neutral must be able to carry the current from any loaded phase. Phase A at 100%m and B and C at zero. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "Andy Leviss" Subject: RE: KC Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:55:51 -0500 Organization: Duck's Echo Sound Message-ID: <000601c50b15$0eb997f0$a19afea9 [at] AndyLeviss> In-reply-to: Regarding a claim to KC having the best BBQ in the world, Chris Babbie wrote: > Hidden behind all that red sauce, how can you tell? I think > you need to get out more. Meet me in Austin, we'll take a > thirty minute drive that'll change your life, sorta like > 'getting a new religion' barbecue. Lemme guess, Salt Lick? Had that with a friend when I played Austin back in April, was quite good. Was talking about trying Gates and/or KC Masterpiece here this weekend with some of the others on my crew. --Andy, currently in KC, in Austin in a week and a half, and Houston in between Sound Engineer Sesame Street Live: Elmo's Coloring Book ------ Webmaster/General Grand Poobah http://OneFromTheRoad.com Tools, Toys, and Tales for the Theatrical Technician -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release Date: 2/3/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 20:53:21 -0500 Subject: Re: KC / Austin / BBQ From: Greg Williams In-Reply-To: Message-Id: On Friday, February 4, 2005, at 06:55 PM, Andy Leviss wrote: > Lemme guess, Salt Lick? Had that with a friend when I played Austin > back > in April, was quite good. Was talking about trying Gates and/or KC > Masterpiece here this weekend with some of the others on my crew. > > --Andy, currently in KC, in Austin in a week and a half, and Houston in > between Andy, Try Salt Lick 360 when you're in Austin (3801 N Capital of TX Hwy... 360). Same family, a little more upscale and/or innovative. Manager's name is Jay Knepp. Tell him Alice and I said hello, and ask him if he's bought that Harley yet! Also try Green Mesquite and County Line for more traditional fare. You might need a reservation at County Line. There are two County Lines, the one at the lake is better. -=Greg Williams=- Production Manager, Valborg Theatre, Appalachian State University ------We're at it again!!!------ Check out the Long Reach Long Riders cross country fund raiser for BC/EFA at http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:16:04 -0500 From: Richard Wolpert Subject: RE: Proper sizing of neutrals In-reply-to: Message-id: Frank, et al I think you misunderstood me, or perhaps I wasn't clear. The run from the 600A. disconnect to the 200A. company switch should be protected by 600A. fuses or multi-pole breaker. Assuming that is the case, the phase conductors must be sized to accommodate 600A. per leg. The NEUTRAL is not protected by an overcurrent device. If the facilities people are computing neutral size conductors based on net maximum load, they will consider the fact that the Company Switch has a 200A. breaker, so the maximum load would never be more than 200A. If the Company Switch tries to draw any more than 200A., it's breaker will trip and deenergize the system it feeds. Consequently, they might run a Neutral feeder that is a 200% Neutral FOR 200A!!! Probably a pair of 250MCM. This would effectively be an "undersized" Neutral for a 600A. feeder, but adequate for the 200A. Company Switch. I'm not saying it's a recommended practice, but it would pass inspection in many jurisdictions. The real danger in undersizing the Neutral based on computed loads is the possibility that in the future, someone might tap a parallel line off the 600A. feeders and put in a second or even a third 200A. Company Switch. At that point, the Neutral feeder is dangerously small, and will probably act like a slow-blow fuse if the maximum allowable loads are put on the switches. As to the other discussions considering code guidelines for portable systems, etc. - The Company Switch is not a piece of portable gear. It may feed portable equipment, so as a practical matter it should have connectors, overcurrent devices and neutral sizing as required for those devices. There is no requirement for this. A Company Switch feeding a dimmer rack should definitely have a 200% neutral, as this is required in the rack, and the Switch should consist of at least he same size conductors. Company Switches can be used for other devices than dimmer racks, however, and may not need a 200% neutral for those applications. Here is where you need to sit down and explain to the facilities people exactly what the purpose of the Switch is, and the considerations needed to install it safely. I don't know the politics in your local area, but a talk with the local Authority Having Jurisdiction ( inspector ) might be a good idea. Richard A.Wolpert President Union Connector Co., Inc. 40 Dale Street West Babylon, NY 11704 Ph: 631-753-9550 ext. 204 Fx: 631-753-9560 richw [at] unionconnector.com -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 5:50 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 04/02/05 16:23:01 GMT Standard Time, richw [at] unionconnector.com writes: > I'm just speculating now, but I think the facilities people are talking > about is providing a neutral that is sized to accommodate the "maximum net > computed load current". If you're planning a 200A. Company Switch, they may > size the neutral for a 200A. maximum load. It might be a 200% neutral for > 200A., but would be considered "undersized" for the 600A. feeder. Like I > said, I'm guessing here. What I'd be more concerned with is the size of the > phase conductors. Unless the tap rule applies, they need to be sized for > 600A.! If it's a 200A feed, it ought to be protected by 200A fuses or breakers. This is axiomatic in power distribution. The fuse or breaker must protect all the wiring down to the next fuse or breaker, right down to the individual circuit. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <007401c50b29$d20a9240$0200a8c0 [at] om.cox.net> From: "John Gibilisco" Cc: alf [at] sauve.org (Alf Sauve) References: Subject: Re: piano tuning Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 20:24:28 -0600 From: "Alf Sauve" wrote: > Question still stands. Who has first hand knowledge of the rider for some > of the bigger names? In regards to piano tuning? > > Interested to see how they spec it out. > > Alf I just tossed my copy of the Michael Feinstein rider. (I consider him a big name, but heck, I'm in Omaha) I would be happy to find a copy and mail or fax it to you. It was very specific on many points including; "Tuner must speak English and be sober." Let me know if you are interested. John Gibilisco Omaha Community Playhouse ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20050204213307.0202c718 [at] mail.DesignRelief.com> Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 21:47:30 -0600 From: Mitch Hefter Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals Previously, I said: >Other parts of the Code tell you that the neutral must be sized >considering it a current-carrying conductor. Also, I believe the 2005 NEC >has eliminated the ability to underate neutrals in any situation (my Code >book is at home, so I can't tell you specifically now). ======== 2005 Edition - 220.61 Feeder or Service Neutral Load. (C) Prohibited Reductions. There shall be no reduction of the neutral or grounded conductor capacity applied to the amount in 220.61 (C)(1), or portion of the amount in 220.61 (C)(2), from that determined by the basic calculation: (1) Any portion of a 3-wire circuit consisting of 2-phase wires and the neutral of a 4-wire, 3-phase, wyeconnected system (2) That portion consisting of nonlinear loads supplied from a 4-wire, wye-connected, 3-phase system FPN No. 1: See Examples D1(A), D1(B), D2(B), D4(A), and D5(A) in Annex D. FPN No. 2: A 3-phase, 4-wire, wye-connected power system used to supply power to nonlinear loads may necessitate that the power system design allow for the possibility of high harmonic neutral currents. ======== FPN = Fine Print Note - informational,but not prescriptive. Some reduction is still permitted in situations we're unlikely to encounter in the entertainment industry. . . . ------------------------------------- Mitch Hefter mitch.hefter [at] DesignRelief.com Member NEC Panel 15 Office: Entertainment Technology / a Division of the Genlyte Group mhefter [at] genlyte.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 18:33:02 -1000 Subject: Piano Tuning From: Shell Dalzell Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > those which haven't > been tuned in years) simply can't be brought to "correct" pitch, in which > case the tuner will make all of the notes correct in relation to each other, > so the piano at least sounds coherent. We have an excellent tuner here in Hawaii named Oppernokity. He has no trouble with the kind of pianos described above because as we all know. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Are you ready???? Oppernokity tunes but once. Aloha, Shell ------------------------------ From: DanSLDME [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 00:31:01 EST Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals I do still have that spreadsheet, from 2002, slightly improved. Anybody wants it, you can email me direct and I'll email it back to you as an attachment. Anybody want to post it on a website (again, we went through this before) ? Good point that the max neutral RMS current does not coincide with all 3 phases fully loaded, so heating in the conduit [cable] is not 4x the heat of one wire at 100%. Frank, with your background you should be able to do the math to see that third & 3x harmonics do not cancel in a threephase neutral. With all three loads at 100%, there is no harmonics (load waveforms are full sinusoidals) and cancellation in the neutral is complete, as you would expect. But if you set all three phases to 50% conduction angle, the RMS current in each phase is 75% of full, and the RMS current in the neutral is 100%... greater than any individual phase current, and it is dominated by the 180 Hz component (3x the fundamental). Not a pretty sinusoid because there are higher order harmonics in there too, to make up the truncated-in-time individual phase waveforms that the dimmer makes. As you set different cutoffs in the different phases, it gets uglier. The combination A=0%, B=50%, C=100% (conduction angles) produces a neutral current of 124%. Somebody at a dot-edu with an EE department should be able to get a student to set up a Spice simulation and search for the worst-case neutral loading. My .xls neglects the fact that the load resistance in B at 50% is reduced (cooler lamp filament) thus its RMS current is higher than simply doing the time truncation calculates. Rise time slew rate limiters (lump inductors) are also not accounted for. A ***Really Ambitious*** student could simulate these as well. You could also set up an experiment with 3 5$ hardware store dimmers (rated 600W), 3 identical lamps, and an ammeter (true RMS, good to about 20KHz to include up to about the 3x10th harmonic). And of course a 3-phase supply. Twiddle the knobs, set 100-0-0 to calibrate the 100% point, you will easily then be able to drive the neutral current over that level by varying the settings. For some reason you weren't able to run this .xls when this thread went around before. I'll make some PDFs of a couple of example settings and send them to you. Waveform summations is a pretty clear picture. Regards, Dan Sheehan ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #284 *****************************