Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 21328248; Thu, 24 Mar 2005 03:02:19 -0800 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #340 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 03:01:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on prxy.net X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, ENTITY_DEC_ALPHANUM autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #340 1. Re: [Show-Control] Stage Expo photos by Villem Teder 2. Re: ETCP Handbook by Stuart Wheaton 3. Re: ETCP Handbook by "Stephen E. Rees" 4. Re: ETCP Handbook by Bill Sapsis 5. Re: ETCP Handbook by "Delbert Hall" 6. Re: ETCP Handbook by "Ehrenberg, Steven" 7. Re: ETCP Handbook by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 8. Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions) by Richard Wolpert 9. Re: earth and neutral by "Thomas F. Brubaker" 10. speaking of rigging (drafting standards?) by "Alex M. Postpischil" 11. Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions) by Brian Munroe 12. Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test? by "Cyr, Dale" 13. Re: ETCP Handbook by "Scheu Consulting Services" 14. Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions) by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 15. Re: Email address harvesting by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 16. Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions) by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 17. Re: ETCP Handbook by Mark O'Brien 18. Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test? by "Scheu Consulting Services" 19. Re: ETCP Handbook by Stuart Wheaton 20. List gathering by "Stephen E. Rees" 21. Re: earth and neutral by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 22. Re: ETCP Handbook by Bill Sapsis 23. Re: ETCP Handbook by "Scheu Consulting Services" 24. Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test? by Bill Sapsis 25. Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test? by "Cyr, Dale" 26. Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test? by Bill Sapsis 27. Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test? by Christopher Haas CEHAAS 28. Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test? by Bill Sapsis 29. ETCP Certification (was:ETCP Handbook) by Michael Heinicke 30. Re: Email address harvesting (hiding from) by Barney Simon 31. Re: List gathering by Barney Simon 32. Re: ETCP Certification by "Scheu Consulting Services" 33. Re: ETCP Certification by Bill Sapsis 34. Rigging Software by "Delbert Hall" 35. Re: ETCP Certification (was:ETCP Handbook) by Bill Sapsis 36. Re: ETCP Certification (was:ETCP Handbook) by Michael Heinicke 37. USITT pics by "richard j. archer" 38. Re: Rigging Software by Bill Sapsis 39. plotters by Joseph Lott 40. Re: speaking of rigging (drafting standards?) by Bill Sapsis 41. Re: Rigging Software by Michael Heinicke 42. ETCP by Bill Sapsis 43. Re: Rechargeables by "Ian Cunningham" 44. Re: plotters by "Mt. Angel Performing Arts" 45. Re: Rigging Software by Brian Munroe 46. Temporary US curtain ideas needed by MissWisc [at] aol.com 47. Re: Rigging Software by "Delbert Hall" 48. Re: Rigging Software by Michael Heinicke 49. Re: List gathering by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 50. Re: plotters by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 51. Re: plotters by "Clare Adams" 52. BOOK for Learning BASIC ELECTRICAL was: 240/120 balancing by MissWisc [at] aol.com 53. Re: Temporary US curtain ideas needed by "Cyr, Dale" 54. Where can I access the archives and a Marley question by Al Fitch 55. automation info. by Jared Fortney 56. Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question by Stephen Litterst 57. Re: automation info. by "Chris Warner" 58. Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question by MissWisc [at] aol.com 59. Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question by Brian Munroe 60. Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question by IAEG [at] aol.com 61. Re: Email address harvesting (hiding from) by Adam Janzen 62. Re: Rigging Software by Bruce Purdy 63. Re: Email address harvesting (hiding from) by Noah Price 64. Re: Rigging Software by "Delbert Hall" 65. Archives (was Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question) by Noah Price 66. Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question by barney 67. Re: ETCP Handbook - Who to contact by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com 68. Re: Rigging Software by Bruce Purdy 69. Re: Rigging Software by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com 70. Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question by Mike Brubaker 71. Solar Death ray mark II by Herrick Goldman 72. Way OT: Looking for a certain candy by "Andy Leviss" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050323062107.007ea9d0 [at] mail.interlog.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 06:21:07 -0500 From: Villem Teder Subject: Re: [Show-Control] Stage Expo photos I'm the bearded guy with glasses, third from stage left in the front row, just upstage of Jerry. Villem Teder Toronto ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42417448.108 [at] fuse.net> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:51:04 -0500 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook References: In-Reply-To: Bill Sapsis wrote: > Peter has the right of it folks. This is a beginning. The Council is > indeed investigating other certifications and certificates. (I can speak > with authority on this as I sit on that Council) As the industry grows and > it's needs grow, so will the programs. > > Thanks > Bill OK, let me ask this question in another way... What, in the opinion of Mr. Sapsis et.al, should be the areas that are restricted to only 'certified' riggers? Since it looks like these guys will be very few and far between, especially outside the coasts and major venue areas, will there be enough guys qualified to do that stuff, or enough stuff to keep those guys busy? At this point it looks to me like we're developing a licensing scheme for Formula 1 drivers when we should be worrying about getting the drunks off the road. Stuart ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42417485.1000908 [at] fredonia.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:52:05 -0500 From: "Stephen E. Rees" Reply-To: Rees [at] fredonia.edu Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook References: I think mine is a subtle shade of mauve. Steve CB wrote:[snipped] Had this been an actual situation, you would have > been told where to go and what color handbasket you'd be in. > Chris "Chris" Babbie > Location Sound ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:13:00 -0500 Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Stuart. Let me see if I can shed some light on the subject. We've identified the top third as the likely candidates for certification. These are high steel guys and rigging supervisors. The points system is there to help prevent the inexperienced and not-quite-ready-for-prime-time- riggers from essentially wasting their money by attempting to take a test they are not ready for yet. This will not be an easy test. And, to use your drunk driver imagery, we're not attempting to weed out the drunks. This is not a police action. We're attempting, for the very first time, to quantify the skill level of those who do this work on a regular basis. We're looking to identify the good guys. Yes, I know there are part time folks out there who will feel somewhat disenfranchised. I wish there was a way of covering all the bases and making everyone happy, but it's just not realistic. To make this first Certification viable, fair and accurate, we needed to identify one group and only one group. A test for this group combined with a test for a lesser experienced group would not have had any significance to it at all. The Essential Skills program will help identify the skill levels needed for the mid range rigger folks and will provide the training. One of the results of the Essential Skills program is that we will have a better trained workforce that will provide a larger number of candidates who will qualify for, and have a better chance of passing, the Certification test. I've said it before in other ways, and so have Peter and other members of the program.........Patience. It won't happen overnight. Some of us old pharts may not be around to see the final flowering of this program, but we're here planting the seeds. As long as the program is supported, and all evidence says that it will be, the end result should be a smarter, stronger and safer workforce. Zat help? Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html on 3/23/05 8:51 AM, Stuart Wheaton at sdwheaton [at] fuse.net wrote: > OK, let me ask this question in another way... > > What, in the opinion of Mr. Sapsis et.al, should be the > areas that are restricted to only 'certified' riggers? > > Since it looks like these guys will be very few and far > between, especially outside the coasts and major venue > areas, will there be enough guys qualified to do that stuff, > or enough stuff to keep those guys busy? > > At this point it looks to me like we're developing a > licensing scheme for Formula 1 drivers when we should be > worrying about getting the drunks off the road. ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:21:57 -0500 Stuart - I think you are trying me make more of this certification than it really is (not that what you want is wrong). According to the ETCP home page, "Personnel certification is the voluntary process by which a nongovernmental organization grants recognition to an individual who has demonstrated certain abilities, skills and knowledge." This is the purpose of the ETCP. No more - no less. If you want a program that improves safety by training riggers how to properly rig, well look somewhere else. From what was said in Toronto, ETCP is prohibited from doing this. They "may" in the future "approve" training programs that are developed and conducted by others, but ETCP is not about training, it is about recognizing people who meet the qualifications and who pass their exam. My statements above are based on what I have read on the ETCP web site and the presentation at USITT. To find out more, I suggest you contact Katie Geraghty the ETCP Certification Director. Her contact info is: Tel: 212-244-1505 Fax: 212-244-1502 kgeraghty [at] esta.org -Delbert Delbert L. Hall 423-773-HALL (4255) >From: Stuart Wheaton >Reply-To: "Stagecraft" >To: "Stagecraft" >Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook >Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:51:04 -0500 > >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >Bill Sapsis wrote: > >>Peter has the right of it folks. This is a beginning. The Council is >>indeed investigating other certifications and certificates. (I can speak >>with authority on this as I sit on that Council) As the industry grows >>and >>it's needs grow, so will the programs. >> >>Thanks >>Bill > > OK, let me ask this question in another way... > >What, in the opinion of Mr. Sapsis et.al, should be the areas that are >restricted to only 'certified' riggers? > >Since it looks like these guys will be very few and far between, especially >outside the coasts and major venue areas, will there be enough guys >qualified to do that stuff, or enough stuff to keep those guys busy? > >At this point it looks to me like we're developing a licensing scheme for >Formula 1 drivers when we should be worrying about getting the drunks off >the road. > >Stuart > ------------------------------ Subject: RE: ETCP Handbook Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:34:08 -0600 Message-ID: <95E1F758C14A0248B42D6FC9D67C7C3201F763C8 [at] CCUMAIL14.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> From: "Ehrenberg, Steven" As an ETCP council member, I want to toss in my 2 cents on this subject. The outline of what the test covers is in the handbook. This outline is extremely detailed; so detailed it includes how many questions will be addressing each category listed in the outline, allowing the candidate to see the weight the test writers (subject matter experts - thanks to Peter Scheu and many others for giving so much time to this) feel should be given to each area covered by the test. This outline is a study guide. We on the council hope that people will tailor courses, whether in academia or in professional rigging seminars, to teach to this information. The Council is developing the mechanism to recognize programs that do teach this material. There are many reasons why it is improper for a body developing a certification test to develop, at the same time, a course you can take to pass that test. Think about it - "Here's the certification test, it recognizes the top people in the field, oh by the way (wink, wink) you can pay to take my course so you will pass" - not cool. The ETCP council is the certifying entity, not teachers or trainers. Richard Bakos asked: If this is for only the upper tier then what good is the certification?=20 Certification is the top end of the training process. Certification recognizes that those who pass the test are expert in the field and an independent third party (not you or your employers or your teachers) has certified that this is the case. For training and teaching on more basic levels ESTA's essential skills program is developing disciplines in all fields. All of this is open to public comment and review, get some information and participate. The working groups, which are developing the bodies of knowledge in the fields, both for essential skills and for certification are open to the public as are the groups working on the technical standards program. A quick show of hands will find a number of list members who give quite a bit of their time and energy to participate in these programs. The first test is coming, more will follow. Our industry is undergoing long overdue, systemic cultural change. We need standards for Identifying expertise and competence. Certification is a great way to start. More like $2 not 2 cents. Sorry, Steven Steven Ehrenberg Director of Technical Supervision Clear Channel Entertainment - Theatrical Office - 917 421 5461 Mobile - 917 331 0207 ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:55:17 GMT Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook Message-Id: <20050323.065549.29075.31468 [at] webmail03.lax.untd.com> Besides, some of us 'Olde Pharts', myself included, may live longer because of a safer workplace created by the quasi-official identification of the colleagues who are safer to work with. Ultimately, we all have a choice as to whom we wish to work next to, or a furlong beneath, and it wouldn't get personal --its just business. And if it helps us 'hold the line' on Workmans Comp (or other insurance) rate increases, that alone is a valid justification. /s/ Richard Some of us old pharts may not be around to see the final flowering of this program, but we're here planting the seeds. As long as the program is supported, and all evidence says that it will be, the end result should be a smarter, stronger and safer workforce. Zat help? Bill S. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:01:43 -0500 From: Richard Wolpert Subject: RE: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions) In-reply-to: Cc: LSFXCo [at] cox.net (Carson Koz Noel at LSFX Co.) Message-id: ( tips hat to Koz) Richard A.Wolpert President Union Connector Co., Inc. 40 Dale Street West Babylon, NY 11704 Ph: 631-753-9550 ext. 204 Fx: 631-753-9560 richw [at] unionconnector.com -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Carson Koz Noel at LSFX Co. Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 10:12 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions) For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- The wild leg is a high volt leg from a "delta phase" wound transformer. It is used in an industrial application specifically for motors and HVAC. The high leg is primarily for the starter and brake section of the motor. Some older elevators also use this electrical configuration. The higher voltage allows the motor to start and stop better under load. To quote Mr. Wolpert again... Like the bumper sticker says "WIRING IS NOT A HOBBY" Carson "Koz" Noel, III Light and Sound FX Co. / LSFX 5832 E. Camden Street Tucson, AZ 85712 Koz [at] LSFXCo.com www.LSFXCo.com Phone - 520.419.4529 Fax - 520.296.9751 *** This communication is intended solely for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain privileged and/or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you have received this communication in error, please send reply to above email address or phone.*** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:52:32 -0500 From: "Thomas F. Brubaker" Subject: Re: earth and neutral In-reply-to: Reply-to: brubaker [at] pitt.edu Message-id: <424190C0.5090608 [at] pitt.edu> References: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > > ...Guesswork suggests a three-phase delta connection, with one phase earthed. It > seems to be an US custom to treat earth and neutral as interchangeable. > > > Frank Wood No, not really. I learned the hard way that when doing a power tie-in, having the ground and neutral wire reversed, or not bonded anywhere, can be just as costly as a hot-neutral reverse. Here's two links to some recent, relevant articles about this topic. http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_grounding_vs_bonding_2/index.html http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_grounding_vs_bonding/index.html Tom Brubaker Johnstown PA USA ------------------------------ From: "Alex M. Postpischil" Subject: speaking of rigging (drafting standards?) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:34:31 -0600 Message-ID: <000301c52fc6$307c26c0$ba1e4a82 [at] DHKQYC31> In-Reply-To: At one of the sessions at USITT I asked if there were any standards used in drafting to donate various types of rigging, points, motors, motion control devices, etc. The response was that nothing seems to have evolved. Is this the general consensus of the list? If so, should we embark on the task of trying to standardize symbols and notation for drafting? I'm also asking this because I'm getting to the point in my drafting class that I need to mention that aspect of drafting... Also, while I did get my list sticker for the name badge, I was not able to share in the peeps - I was busy drinking beer at the Wisconsin alumni gathering!! If you had a picture of me from that night I would be smiling!!! :-) -alex- Alex M. Postpischil, Technical Director Department of Theatre Arts University of Mississippi University, MS 38677 662.915.6993 662.915.5968 - fax ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:38:27 -0800 From: Brian Munroe Reply-To: Brian Munroe Subject: Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions) In-Reply-To: References: Is there an "intro to power distro" book or reference material anywhere? Not quite a "for dummies" level, but something that explains it in more lay-terms and less code-speak? Thanks, Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Subject: RE: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test? Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:03:03 -0800 Message-ID: <407DF7D68DD30440B5CEB70ED234D1CF0316E36D [at] excuswa100.americas.unity> From: "Cyr, Dale" Steven, Bill, et al: thanks for your explanations of the meaning of the certification. there is, perhaps, a element to the selection process that you could address... I suspect that there are several of us who could "challenge" the test. (not to degrade the significance or difficulty of the test, but scanning thru the topics, I didn't see very many that I would even have to bone up on.) but the experience requirement will likely prevent many, who are otherwise qualified / knowledgeable / skilled / motivated / etc., from having the opportunity to try. comments? dale cyr Training Supervisor IATSE Local 93 -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Ehrenberg, Steven Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 6:34 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook As an ETCP council member, I want to toss in my 2 cents on this subject. The ETCP council is the certifying entity, not teachers or trainers. Richard Bakos asked: If this is for only the upper tier then what good is the certification?=20 Certification is the top end of the training process. Certification recognizes that those who pass the test are expert in the field and an independent third party (not you or your employers or your teachers) has certified that this is the case.=20 Steven Steven Ehrenberg Director of Technical Supervision Clear Channel Entertainment - Theatrical Office - 917 421 5461 Mobile - 917 331 0207 ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Scheu Consulting Services" Subject: RE: ETCP Handbook Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:12:01 -0500 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: <000601c52fd3$cff21180$c9fea8c0 [at] ROXY> In-reply-to: Stuart Wheaton wrote: >At this point it looks to me like we're developing a=20 >licensing scheme for Formula 1 drivers when we should be=20 >worrying about getting the drunks off the road. Interesting analogy, but I think fundamentally flawed. Such a = certification as you describe might keep drunks from getting behind the wheel of a = million dollar Formula 1 car, filled with high octane racing fuel, where they = could do a lot more damage crashing into the stands filled with hundreds of = people than a drunk crashing into a lamppost with a Rambler. While I might not = need to have the local TD be certified because he only hangs one or two = points a year (and has demonstrated in the past that he's perfectly capable and qualified), I certainly would want to know that the head rigger on the = U2 tour (whom I've never met) was certified before he came in and started hanging his show in my venue. Think of the certification as a UL label. If your "product" (in this = case, your rigging skills) is going to be mass marketed and a large number of people exposed to it, the UL label (certification) indicates that your product has been tested by an independent organization that says "this = meets this standard". That doesn't mean that you can't rig up a perfectly safe electrical effect in your shop for a particular show. Just because it doesn't carry a UL label doesn't mean it's not safe. Certification is = not law, nor does it guarantee safety. It just says this person has met a particular standard. And, ultimately, no certification, law, regulation, or standard is going = to keep all the "drunks off the road". Hell, even jail doesn't do that! Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. www.scheuconsulting.com Tel: 315.422.9984 fax: 413.513.4966 ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <9d.5c3b1c46.2f730ba3 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:12:51 EST Subject: Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions) In a message dated 22/03/05 23:46:01 GMT Standard Time, admin [at] mtangelperformingarts.com writes: > The neutral is the GROUNDED conductor, but the GROUND is the GROUNDING > conductor. > > A single phase USA service is 120 -0 -120 to ground, with the neutral > connected to ground at the pole and one place at the service entrance. The > power company supplies the two 'hot' legs and the neutral, we create a > ground at our service entrance or service disconnect by making an earth > ground and bonding it to the neutral. > > We run separated neutral and ground to all outlets - the neutral is a > current carrying conductor (if the main legs are unbalanced, the neutral > carries the difference) but the Grounding conductor (either a separate wire > in a cable or the raceway in a metallic system) carries only fault current. This is similar to the distribution system we know as PME (Protective Multiple Earth). It is occasionally found, in rural areas. Because we use a higher voltage distribution than you, we have no need of the centre-tapped system. ALL our domestic gear runs on 230V. The sub-station receives 11KV three-phase, transforms it down to 380V three-phase four-wire, and this is the local distribution. Each household gets one phase, and the neutral. The phases are split around, so as to achieve some degree of balance. The neutral is grounded at the sub-station, and nowhere else. We also have an incoming ground, usually from the steel wire armoured cable, and our rules require that this is kept scrupulously apart from the neutral. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <100.fdeab2d.2f730d08 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:18:48 EST Subject: Re: Email address harvesting In a message dated 23/03/05 00:04:05 GMT Standard Time, deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes: > As I have e-mail addresses on our theatre web site, I tend to get a HUGE > amount of spam generated as a result (most of which is caught by the Yahoo > filters, however). Because of the way the domain is set up, if you were to > send anything to anything at abbeytheatre dot co dot uk, it would end up in > my in-box. I get quite a few messages from end-servers and spam-traps > telling me that something like dotty-lottie at abbeytheatre etc has been > spiked from their 'acceptable sender' lists, and please stop spamming them! Too true. I have an old-fashioned solution to this problem. My address list is a small grey index book, with names, addresses, and telephone numbers written in it. Slightly more trouble for me: potentially, much less for them. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:25:26 EST Subject: Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions) In a message dated 23/03/05 03:13:54 GMT Standard Time, LSFXCo [at] cox.net writes: > The wild leg is a high volt leg from a "delta phase" wound transformer. It > is used in an industrial application specifically for motors and HVAC. The > high leg is primarily for the starter and brake section of the motor. Some > older elevators also use this electrical configuration. The higher voltage > allows the motor to start and stop better under load. I thought that it would be that. Over here, delta stops at the sub-station. From there on, it's four-wire star. Frank Wood ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <2cf6fcb8407b618579286738d7a9e6f6 [at] email.arizona.edu> Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien) From: Mark O'Brien Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:26:20 -0700 Rather I see this as a parallel to auto mechanics being ASE certified. If you are searching a company to do rigging, one might want to look for someone advertising at least 1 certified rigger on staff. If you are searching to hire riggers you may want to look for something like this on ones resume. As the certification process diversifies, one might have multiple certifications as for specialty, ( i.e.. Air conditioning, brakes, fuel injection, etc.) If you want to work on your own theatre, (car) you don't have to have certification. If you want to hire someone to do a job, you can still hire someone without certification. My random thoughts... Mark O'Brien Opera Technical Director University of Arizona, School of Music Tucson, AZ 520/621-7025 520/591-1803 Mobile On Mar 23, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Scheu Consulting Services wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > Stuart Wheaton wrote: > >> At this point it looks to me like we're developing a >> licensing scheme for Formula 1 drivers when we should be >> worrying about getting the drunks off the road. > > Interesting analogy, but I think fundamentally flawed. Such a > certification > as you describe might keep drunks from getting behind the wheel of a > million > dollar Formula 1 car, filled with high octane racing fuel, where they > could > do a lot more damage crashing into the stands filled with hundreds of > people > than a drunk crashing into a lamppost with a Rambler. While I might > not need > to have the local TD be certified because he only hangs one or two > points a > year (and has demonstrated in the past that he's perfectly capable and > qualified), I certainly would want to know that the head rigger on the > U2 > tour (whom I've never met) was certified before he came in and started > hanging his show in my venue. > > Think of the certification as a UL label. If your "product" (in this > case, > your rigging skills) is going to be mass marketed and a large number of > people exposed to it, the UL label (certification) indicates that your > product has been tested by an independent organization that says "this > meets > this standard". That doesn't mean that you can't rig up a perfectly > safe > electrical effect in your shop for a particular show. Just because it > doesn't carry a UL label doesn't mean it's not safe. Certification is > not > law, nor does it guarantee safety. It just says this person has met a > particular standard. > > And, ultimately, no certification, law, regulation, or standard is > going to > keep all the "drunks off the road". Hell, even jail doesn't do that! > > Peter Scheu > > Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. > www.scheuconsulting.com > Tel: 315.422.9984 > fax: 413.513.4966 > > > ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Scheu Consulting Services" Subject: RE: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test? Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:30:37 -0500 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: <000701c52fd6$690ca3b0$c9fea8c0 [at] ROXY> In-reply-to: Dale Cyr wrote >but the experience requirement will likely prevent many, >who are otherwise qualified / knowledgeable / skilled /=20 >motivated / etc., from having the opportunity to try. > >comments? Up to this point in history, most rigging skills have been passed on = through master/apprentice types of relationships, hence the reliance on = experience, I think. The point system as developed seems reasonable based on that = basic assumption. This may change as more programs or curricula are developed = and recognized that teach to the certification standard. As the needs of the industry change, I am sure the experience requirements will change. This = is not a rigid process, though I grant you, it is also not a speedy one = either. And just because you are "knowledgeable / skilled / motivated" doesn't = mean that you have actually demonstrated that you know how to put those attributes into practice on a consistent, verifiable basis. Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. www.scheuconsulting.com Tel: 315.422.9984 fax: 413.513.4966 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4241B827.7060400 [at] fuse.net> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:40:39 -0500 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook References: In-Reply-To: Bill Sapsis wrote: > Stuart. Let me see if I can shed some light on the subject. > > We've identified the top third as the likely candidates for certification. > These are high steel guys and rigging supervisors. The points system is > there to help prevent the inexperienced and not-quite-ready-for-prime-time- > riggers from essentially wasting their money by attempting to take a test > they are not ready for yet. This will not be an easy test. > OK, I'm coming at this from the theatre perspective, so high steel isn't really a concern... I have read the pamphlet several times, even before my first post. I even printed a hard copy. Supposedly, this certification will make me more employable or make my current employer eager to pay me lots more. That has my attention. I want a definition of what rigging work experience really means. If I spend a day throwing pigs on a load-in, is that 8 hours of rigging experience? If I run lines for a show, is that rigging experience? If I work the load-in and Clamp, tie, clip or otherwise attach stuff to battens, is that rigging work? Can I count the time I spend carrying stuff from the shop to the stage? Does hanging lighting on a system pipe count? If I am TD in a dead-hung space, but still make things go up and down, can I still count it? Does time spent designing or building scenery that will fly count? I'm not scared of the test, I can learn anything if I want to badly enough! > And, to use your drunk driver imagery, we're not attempting to weed out the > drunks. This is not a police action. We're attempting, for the very first > time, to quantify the skill level of those who do this work on a regular > basis. We're looking to identify the good guys. I get that, I guess that I wonder whether we're safer for identifying the best third rather than the worst third...and I know that it has certain benefits for acceptance and so forth if this is a carrot based system. I eagerly await the 'basic skills' series of tests. And I think this is part of the fear that some employer, in the interests of having a reduced liability workforce will require this cert for anybody doing rigging. Taking a page from Garrison Keillor, "All our children are above average." > > Yes, I know there are part time folks out there who will feel somewhat > disenfranchised. I wish there was a way of covering all the bases and > making everyone happy, but it's just not realistic. To make this first > Certification viable, fair and accurate, we needed to identify one group and > only one group. A test for this group combined with a test for a lesser > experienced group would not have had any significance to it at all. > I think the Arena world, where there are riggers, seperate and very distinct from other technical staff, is easy to sort out. But the theatre world is not quite as clean-cut from where I stand. > The Essential Skills program will help identify the skill levels needed for > the mid range rigger folks and will provide the training. One of the > results of the Essential Skills program is that we will have a better > trained workforce that will provide a larger number of candidates who will > qualify for, and have a better chance of passing, the Certification test. > > I've said it before in other ways, and so have Peter and other members of > the program.........Patience. Lord, Please grant me patience...NOW!!!! > It won't happen overnight. Some of us old > pharts may not be around to see the final flowering of this program, but > we're here planting the seeds. As long as the program is supported, and all > evidence says that it will be, the end result should be a smarter, stronger > and safer workforce. > > Zat help? > Bill S. It always helps to hear the thinking of the people behind this kind of thing, and it helps me clarify the next bunch of questions. I want to be very clear. I am not trying to be combative. I think this could be a great deal, and I think I might even qualify. I'm just not clear on whether you'll let me take the test at all. Thank you to Bill and all the listers and non-listers who have devoted so much time to putting it together, and to helping us know what it means to us, and for (maybe) being willing to make it make even more sense. Stuart ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4241B8E8.5090400 [at] fredonia.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:43:52 -0500 From: "Stephen E. Rees" Reply-To: Rees [at] fredonia.edu Subject: List gathering References: Alex, How come I was able to get to both activities? I think you were just slacking. :) I had the peeps with me at the Armadillo, too. Sorry you were left out. I will not be mailing any of them out. Best, Steve Alex M. Postpischil wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > At one of the sessions at USITT I asked if there were any standards used > in drafting to donate various types of rigging, points, motors, motion > control devices, etc. The response was that nothing seems to have > evolved. Is this the general consensus of the list? If so, should we > embark on the task of trying to standardize symbols and notation for > drafting? I'm also asking this because I'm getting to the point in my > drafting class that I need to mention that aspect of drafting... > > Also, while I did get my list sticker for the name badge, I was not able > to share in the peeps - I was busy drinking beer at the Wisconsin alumni > gathering!! If you had a picture of me from that night I would be > smiling!!! > :-) > > -alex- > > Alex M. Postpischil, Technical Director > Department of Theatre Arts > University of Mississippi > University, MS 38677 > 662.915.6993 > 662.915.5968 - fax ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <9f.5b7bc986.2f731502 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:52:50 EST Subject: Re: earth and neutral In a message dated 23/03/05 15:53:37 GMT Standard Time, brubaker+ [at] pitt.edu writes: > > Frank Wood > > No, not really. I learned the hard way that when doing a power tie-in, > having the ground and neutral wire reversed, or not bonded anywhere, > can be just as costly as a hot-neutral reverse. > > Here's two links to some recent, relevant articles about this topic. > > http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_grounding_vs_bonding_2/index.html > > http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_grounding_vs_bonding/index.html Thank you for the links. They confirm me in my opinion that an electrician's trade is more complicated, in the US. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:18:39 -0500 Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 3/23/05 1:40 PM, Stuart Wheaton at sdwheaton [at] fuse.net wrote: > OK, I'm coming at this from the theatre perspective, so high > steel isn't really a concern... > > I have read the pamphlet several times, even before my first > post. I even printed a hard copy. Supposedly, this > certification will make me more employable or make my > current employer eager to pay me lots more. That has my > attention. > > I want a definition of what rigging work experience really > means. > > If I spend a day throwing pigs on a load-in, is that 8 hours > of rigging experience? If I run lines for a show, is that > rigging experience? If I work the load-in and Clamp, tie, > clip or otherwise attach stuff to battens, is that rigging > work? Can I count the time I spend carrying stuff from the > shop to the stage? > > Does hanging lighting on a system pipe count? > > If I am TD in a dead-hung space, but still make things go up > and down, can I still count it? Does time spent designing > or building scenery that will fly count? > > I'm not scared of the test, I can learn anything if I want > to badly enough! Stuart. Rigging is rigging. Do you really need me to sit down and define every little job we do for you? I'd rather not, but, in broad terms, it's when you work with equipment...any equipment...that is involved in raising, lowering or suspended loads over peoples heads. So I would classify all of the above, with the exception of hanging lights, as rigging. > I get that, I guess that I wonder whether we're safer for > identifying the best third rather than the worst third...and > I know that it has certain benefits for acceptance and so > forth if this is a carrot based system. I eagerly await the > 'basic skills' series of tests. Ya know...instead of eagerly awaiting...you could get involved. > > And I think this is part of the fear that some employer, in > the interests of having a reduced liability workforce will > require this cert for anybody doing rigging. Taking a page > from Garrison Keillor, "All our children are above average." Yeah, that could happen. But I would imagine that the Certified Riggers he/she was trying to hire might be asking for more money than their non-certified counterparts. Might give the employer a reason to re-think his methods. > > I think the Arena world, where there are riggers, seperate > and very distinct from other technical staff, is easy to > sort out. But the theatre world is not quite as clean-cut > from where I stand. Nor from where I stand. But we had no precedent to work with. We took a stand and gave it our best shot. > > Lord, Please grant me patience...NOW!!!! Get in line. > > It always helps to hear the thinking of the people behind > this kind of thing, and it helps me clarify the next bunch > of questions. Good. Keep asking questions. I'll try to keep coming up with answers. (But I do have to get some other work done around here today) > > I want to be very clear. I am not trying to be combative. > I think this could be a great deal, and I think I might even > qualify. I'm just not clear on whether you'll let me take > the test at all. Stuart, I can't imagine that you wouldn't qualify for the test. > > Thank you to Bill and all the listers and non-listers who > have devoted so much time to putting it together, and to > helping us know what it means to us, and for (maybe) being > willing to make it make even more sense. Your welcome. (now can I eat my lunch?) Be well Bill www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Scheu Consulting Services" Subject: RE: ETCP Handbook Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:20:54 -0500 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: <000901c52fdd$6fa5c560$c9fea8c0 [at] ROXY> In-reply-to: Mark O'Brien wrote: >Rather I see this as a parallel to auto mechanics being ASE certified. > >If you are searching a company to do rigging, one might want to look >for someone advertising at least 1 certified rigger on staff. > >If you are searching to hire riggers you may want to look for >something >like this on ones resume. > >As the certification process diversifies, one might have multiple >certifications as for specialty, ( i.e.. Air conditioning, brakes, >fuel injection, etc.) > >If you want to work on your own theatre, (car) you don't have to have >certification. > >If you want to hire someone to do a job, you can still hire someone >without certification. DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! Right you are, contestant! Johnny, tell him what he's won!... Peter Scheu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:27:52 -0500 Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test? From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 3/23/05 1:03 PM, Cyr, Dale at Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com wrote: > thanks for your explanations of the meaning of the certification. > > there is, perhaps, a element to the selection process that you could > address... > > I suspect that there are several of us who could "challenge" the test. > (not to degrade the significance or difficulty of the test, > but scanning thru the topics, I didn't see very many that I would > even have to bone up on.) > > but the experience requirement will likely prevent many, > who are otherwise qualified / knowledgeable / skilled / motivated / > etc., > from having the opportunity to try. > > comments? We took a group of people whom we believe to be experts in the field and we asked them. We asked many other associations (IAAM, ICIA, for example) who already have certification programs in different disciplines what they thought. What you are reading is the result of a considerable amount of debate, discussion, wailing and gnashing of teeth and other descriptions too horrible to mention. Dale, if I may ask in this public forum, how long have you been in the industry? Please don't answer if you feel it impertinent of me. It's just that I think that if you look at your career closely you will see that the requirements aren't that onerous. And if someone is that skilled/knowledgable/qualified/motivated, I would have to wonder how they got that way without amassing a fair number of work hours in the discipline in question. Hope that helps Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ Subject: RE: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test? Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:42:17 -0800 Message-ID: <407DF7D68DD30440B5CEB70ED234D1CF0316E36E [at] excuswa100.americas.unity> From: "Cyr, Dale" LOL. uuummm... ok, ya got me there. I havent actually sat down to add it all up. involved with rigging specifically? well... more than 10 years. but never 'on the road, full time'. > What you are reading is the result of a considerable amount of > debate, discussion, wailing and gnashing of teeth and other=20 > descriptions too horrible to mention. and please, accept my thanks for participating. been thru that sort of process several times myself. tough work, that. and, regarding your "challenge" ;) to stuart: > Ya know...instead of eagerly awaiting...you could get involved. for those that would want to... how? dale cyr Training Supervisor IATSE Local 93 Dale, if I may ask in this public forum, how long have you been in the industry? Please don't answer if you feel it impertinent of me. It's just that I think that if you look at your career closely you will see that the requirements aren't that onerous. And if someone is that skilled/knowledgable/qualified/motivated, I would have to wonder how they got that way without amassing a fair number of work hours in the discipline in question. Hope that helps Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:58:14 -0500 Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test? From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 3/23/05 2:42 PM, Cyr, Dale at Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com wrote: > and, regarding your "challenge" ;) to stuart: >> Ya know...instead of eagerly awaiting...you could get involved. > > for those that would want to... how? There are several places to get involved. Certification, Essential Skills and Standards writing are the three that come to mind the quickest Certification info Kgeraghty [at] esta.org Standards Writing Kruling [at] ESTA.org Essential Skills....I'm embarrassed to say that I'm not sure who the correct person is. I know that Dana Taylor is involved but not sure in what capacity. Check with the ESTA office 212.244.1505 and they'll let you know. I gotta tell you, working within the industry like this has turned out to be, for me at least, a terribly rewarding experience. I actually enjoy going to meetings. The Council meetings are phenomenal. When I look around the room I ask myself, if all these really good people are in here, who's out there minding the store? Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test? Message-ID: From: Christopher Haas CEHAAS Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:57:04 -0500 I'm sorry if this is duplicating earlier questions. Blame it on weariness of trying to finish an Opera build. Anyway, looking at the Theatre Entertainment Rigger exam info, it looks like it is geared more towards installers and system designers, than necessarily end users. Is this a correct assumption? And will there be another tier of certification, down the road of course, for end users like myself? I've been working/teaching as a TD for the last 11 years and feel that I'm very qualified to teach, rig and maintain counterweight and hemp systems within my venues, but not ready to design and install the systems myself. I would have loved have been part of the working group for this certification, as rigging is the area I absolutely love. However with a limited travel budget from the University and three kids (two in daycare) travel funds are extremely limited. That doesn't mean I have been following it as best as I could through the website and participating in surveys. I would like to thank the committee members for all this hard work on this project. Chip Haas Technical Director Department of Theatre The University of North Carolina at Greensboro 336-334-3891 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:01:21 -0500 Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test? From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 3/23/05 2:42 PM, Cyr, Dale at Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com wrote: > uuummm... ok, ya got me there. > I havent actually sat down to add it all up. > > involved with rigging specifically? > well... more than 10 years. > but never 'on the road, full time'. Doesn't need to be either of those things. 5 hours a week for 10 years gets you 26 points. I can't imagine that over a period of ten years you can't come up with the right number of hours or school or whatever. Go look under the sofa. I thought I saw a point or two hiding there. <> Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050323200510.6802.qmail [at] web81705.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:05:10 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Heinicke Subject: ETCP Certification (was:ETCP Handbook) Cc: peter [at] scheuconsulting.com In-Reply-To: 6667 So far, everyone has been asking if they might qualify to take the test. How are we to document the experience to earn the points? From this point on, I could see people keeping a log of rigging calls or something. But what about for the first couple of years? I would expect that for some people it would be easy. Just go back through old calls and count the number they have been listed as "rigger". What about the situation that Stuart (I believe) pointed out. A TD of a small theater does a little bit of everything, and very often there is not any type of official call. Do we just have to estimate what percentage of our total time was spent on rigging? BTW, my boss is grumpy that his undergrad and grad degrees earn him fewer points than my undergrad in entertainment technology. :) Mike H ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4241CCB7.3080307 [at] josephchansen.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:08:23 -0500 From: Barney Simon Subject: Re: Email address harvesting (hiding from) References: In-Reply-To: >In a message dated 23/03/05 00:04:05 GMT Standard Time, >deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes: > > > >>As I have e-mail addresses on our theatre web site, I tend to get a HUGE >> amount of spam generated as a result (most of which is caught by the Yahoo >> filters, however). >> On our company web site, I've picked up a little piece of (java) code that keeps our addresses from being harvested from our website. Let's see if I can reproduce it without making formating problems.... "var address" decodes to barney, @ is [at] , and "var domain" decodes to jchansen.com I have a little program that spits it out... I'll have to see if I can find it. Barney Simon JC Hansen Co. Drapes, Drops, and Dance Floors ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4241CE84.5080602 [at] josephchansen.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:16:04 -0500 From: Barney Simon Subject: Re: List gathering References: In-Reply-To: > Alex M. Postpischil wrote: > >> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> At one of the sessions at USITT I asked if there were any standards used >> in drafting to donate various types of rigging, points, motors, motion >> control devices, etc. T > This reminds me of the meeting I attended ?? years ago about a lighting instrument symbol standard. I remember a lot about that presentation... none good. The part that this specifically reminds me of is that someone stood up and asked "What is the standard for a 4-1/2" leko?" and the presenter's response was "We could not come to a conclusion so it will be up to the individual designer." Barney Simon JC Hansen Co Drapes, Drops, and Dance Floors ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Scheu Consulting Services" Subject: RE: ETCP Certification Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:17:59 -0500 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: <000a01c52fe5$68dd5880$c9fea8c0 [at] ROXY> In-reply-to: Michael Heinicke wrote: >So far, everyone has been asking if they might qualify >to take the test. How are we to document the >experience to earn the points? This question was asked at the ETCP session at USITT. The answer (as I understand it) is that you submit your experience (I worked "X" hours with so-and-so on such-and-such, along with a contact/reference (usually your supervisor) who can independently verify your claim. You don't need to submit time sheets, etc. When in doubt, call Katie at ETCP. She's got ALL the answers. Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. www.scheuconsulting.com Tel: 315.422.9984 fax: 413.513.4966 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:34:59 -0500 Subject: Re: ETCP Certification From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 3/23/05 3:17 PM, Scheu Consulting Services at peter [at] scheuconsulting.com wrote: >> So far, everyone has been asking if they might qualify >> to take the test. How are we to document the >> experience to earn the points? > > This question was asked at the ETCP session at USITT. The answer (as I > understand it) is that you submit your experience (I worked "X" hours with > so-and-so on such-and-such, along with a contact/reference (usually your > supervisor) who can independently verify your claim. You don't need to > submit time sheets, etc. I would add that for someone like myself who is self employed, a list of clients would work just as well. For those of you who work calls regularly, your supervisors name will work fine. If there is no supervisor, or if you were the supervisor, then it should be the name of someone who can verify that you actually did what you are saying you did. > > When in doubt, call Katie at ETCP. She's got ALL the answers. Oh boy, Peter. Now you've stepped in it. She'll be gunning for you at the next KC meeting. Watch your back! <> Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Rigging Software Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:55:01 -0500 OK you rigger types. Since we have been having all this discussion on rigging, I thought I would share info on some free stage rigging software that I recently found on the web. RiggerMeister is a free Excel spreadsheet available from ATM Fly-Ware (http://atmflyware.com/flyhome.html) with formulas for lots of your rigging needs. Click on the "Books and Software" link on the bottom left side of the screen to download it. It has a more features than the rigging module in LD Calculator, and if you are an Excel junkie like me, you will love to look at the formulas to see how it works (plus, it might help you figure out how to do some of the math problems on a certification exam. It is too bad that you must use a calculator instead of your rigging software when actually taking the exam, but those are the rules. Enjoy. -Delbert Delbert L. Hall 423-773-HALL (4255) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:59:48 -0500 Subject: Re: ETCP Certification (was:ETCP Handbook) From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 3/23/05 3:05 PM, Michael Heinicke at mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net wrote: > BTW, my boss is grumpy that his undergrad and grad > degrees earn him fewer points than my undergrad in > entertainment technology. :) Score one for the good guys! Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050323210444.97858.qmail [at] web81707.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:04:43 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Heinicke Subject: Re: ETCP Certification (was:ETCP Handbook) In-Reply-To: 6667 --- Bill Sapsis wrote: > > BTW, my boss is grumpy that his undergrad and grad > > degrees earn him fewer points than my undergrad in > > entertainment technology. :) > > > Score one for the good guys! That's what he gets for wanting to be an actor as well as a technician! Mike H ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:10:17 -0500 From: "richard j. archer" Subject: USITT pics >Also, while I did get my list sticker for the name badge, I was not able >to share in the peeps - I was busy drinking beer at the Wisconsin alumni >gathering!! > > >Alex M. Postpischil, Technical Director >Department of Theatre Arts >University of Mississippi Hey, I did this too. Went to Rose Brand and ate their food, (thanks Roger), and met friends. Then went over to UW gathering. Sorry List members. Ever the social butterfly, Dick A TD, Cornell U ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:20:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Rigging Software From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 3/23/05 3:55 PM, Delbert Hall at flyingfx [at] hotmail.com wrote: > (plus, it might help you figure out how to do some of the math > problems on a certification exam. It is too bad that you must use a > calculator instead of your rigging software when actually taking the exam, > but those are the rules. Just so we're clear. A scale rule and a calculator will be required. I don't know yet if we will be supplying them or if you get to bring them. But the calculator cannot be a programmable type. The Certification Administrators (AMP) take this part very seriously and I would not suggest trying to get around these rules or you will find yourself on the outside looking in. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4241DDCD.1020709 [at] healylott.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:21:17 -0500 From: Joseph Lott Subject: plotters I don't recall any recent discussion of plotters -- can we revive this perennial topic? (I'd check the archives, but the site's down. Noah, I know you have been working on that; I'd be willing to lend a hand if you'd like some help.) In this case, I am shopping for multiple uses -- in addition to line drawings like a light plot, this machine will be used for printing posters, text, large color photographs, and other graphical uses. I am therefore concerned about color fidelity, smoothness of text, the price of ink, and so on. Paper size should be at least 24", roll-fed, and possibly up to 42". Speed is not a huge issue, as this will not be used in large volume. Budget is roughly $5000. I have looked through the HP DesignJets, and either the 500 or 800 looks about right. Any specific suggestions, or failing that, favorite models/brands? Thanks, Joe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:24:36 -0500 Subject: Re: speaking of rigging (drafting standards?) From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 3/23/05 11:34 AM, Alex M. Postpischil at apost [at] olemiss.edu wrote: > At one of the sessions at USITT I asked if there were any standards used > in drafting to donate various types of rigging, points, motors, motion > control devices, etc. The response was that nothing seems to have > evolved. Is this the general consensus of the list? If so, should we > embark on the task of trying to standardize symbols and notation for > drafting? I'm also asking this because I'm getting to the point in my > drafting class that I need to mention that aspect of drafting... The Rigging Working Group, of which yours truly is the chair, is the most prolific group in the standards program. And we're always looking for more. If you have something you think merits a standard, bring it to my attention and I can run it by the group. I should warn you, however, that if you bring it up it's pretty much expected that you will become the task group leader to write that standard. And *that* will require you to join the Rigging Working Group, show up to meetings (at least 4 a year), vote on stuff, do homework and all that jazz. Just because it's a volunteer organization does not mean that it's a free ride. We have a lot of fun at these meetings but they are indeed a lot of work. Bill S www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050323212324.57174.qmail [at] web81703.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:23:24 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Heinicke Subject: Re: Rigging Software In-Reply-To: 6667 Just an FYI for everyone. I've already found a problem with the Excel spreadsheet. Under "D/d Ratio", the two diamater data fields are formated as dates. I haven't played around enough to reformat it yet. Mike H ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:32:57 -0500 Subject: ETCP From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Alrighty then. I'm going off line for a while. do you think it will be OK if I don't post a response for maybe 2 or 3 hours? Geez Louise. I don't think I've typed that much since my typing class in High School. All kidding aside, I'm more than happy to answer as many questions as I can. I figure I helped foist this thing on y'all, the least I can do is answer your questions. But tomorrow I have *got* to get some of my regular work done. And please know that i appreciate your kind words about the work that we've done. There have been a lot of people who worked long and hard on it. The SME's are one group and they're listed in the handbook. But the members of the Rigging Skills Working Group, the folks who laid the groundwork (pardon the pun) for all this, aren't listed. At some point I'm hoping to get their names posted somewhere. g'night Gracie. Bill www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ Message-ID: <03a701c52fef$7dc8ad80$0202a8c0 [at] laptop> From: "Ian Cunningham" References: Subject: Re: Rechargeables Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:29:59 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry G." Subject: Re: Rechargeables > OK has anyone had any experience with Ansmann rechargeable 9V or AA? > They're cut sheet sounds like they're wonderful, real world experiences > would be nice though... > http://www.ansmann.de/en/index.htm?view=list&pr2id=32 Cross-posting my reply to Theatresound: They are also re-branded by Fischer Amps: http://fischer-amps.de/index.php . I recently bought a stack of 9V 270mAh cells + a rackmount charger + 2 plug in chargers. I use them with Sennheiser Evolution G1 transmitters which gives 5hrs runtime - which is consistent between batteries (on test they all died within 10 minutes of each other). Thats more than enough for most shows and you just stick them in the charger overnight I was consistently getting 8hrs+ out of Varta alkalines in the same transmitters - that made it a bit tight on getting 2 shows out of a set if it was a long show One thing - the low battery warning now lasts less than 10 minutes (nearly an hour on Varta alkalines) - this is just a combination of the threshold of the warning and the discharge curve of the cell and shouldn't be an issue in use. So far I'm very happy with them, they do exactly what it says on the tin. To date I've saved using nearly 200 batteries, thats already covered a big chunk of the purchase price and reduced the amount of waste produced The Fischer amps brand has been picked up by Autograph sales in London and a believe Autograph Sound Recording (one of the West Ends's main suppliers) are evaluating them. Autograph would not be selling these without being confident in the product (they tested extensively before becoming a dealer) Ian Cunningham Solus Technical Services ------------------------------ Message-ID: <02f401c52fef$97d8bc60$650fa8c0 [at] veronica> From: "Mt. Angel Performing Arts" References: Subject: Re: plotters Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:30:52 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Lott" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:21 PM Subject: plotters > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I don't recall any recent discussion of plotters -- can we revive this > perennial topic? > (I'd check the archives, but the site's down. Noah, I know you have been > working on that; I'd be willing to lend a hand if you'd like some help.) > > In this case, I am shopping for multiple uses -- in addition to line > drawings like a light plot, this machine will be used for printing > posters, text, large color photographs, and other graphical uses. I am > therefore concerned about color fidelity, smoothness of text, the price > of ink, and so on. Paper size should be at least 24", roll-fed, and > possibly up to 42". Speed is not a huge issue, as this will not be used > in large volume. Budget is roughly $5000. > > I have looked through the HP DesignJets, and either the 500 or 800 looks > about right. Any specific suggestions, or failing that, favorite > models/brands? > > Thanks, > Joe We have an HP 500PS 42" and it's been very reliable Carla ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:54:16 -0800 From: Brian Munroe Reply-To: Brian Munroe Subject: Re: Rigging Software In-Reply-To: References: Has anyone tried Harry Donovan's RigRight software? http://www.riggingbooksandprograms.com/software.htm Seems a little expensive, and no trial version available. No screen shots listed, so kinda hard to tell how it works. Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1a9.3466a5da.2f73445f [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:14:55 EST Subject: Temporary US curtain ideas needed Tis time for my annual middle school musical. This year we're on the "stage" (read - platform with proscenium at end of gym) in a circa 1950s school. There is a main rag, but the rear curtain was removed (and from what I can tell - disposed of) when the bleachers were added to the upstage wall. There is still a hanging track with traveler hardware to hook into, but no curtain. I'm looking for suggestions for an inexpensive, reasonably light weight fabric (?) for either single use or something that could be put up and taken down each year. I do not have the budget for traditional velour, nor would I want to leave the item up given the stage's more common use. Ideas? Stories of what's worked? Tales of what to avoid? (Mike R. - this is at Holy Cross... if you know any history or know who I could call, I'd appreciate it!) Many thanks!! Kristi R-C ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Rigging Software Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:16:05 -0500 Mike, Are you ralking about cells B3 and B4 in tab labeled "9. D-d Ration"? Mine are numbers, not dates. B7 and B8 are formatted as percentages, but all the others are general numbers. The spreadsheet is locked so you can't change it unless you have the password. -Delbert Delbert L. Hall 423-773-HALL (4255) > >Just an FYI for everyone. I've already found a problem >with the Excel spreadsheet. Under "D/d Ratio", the two >diamater data fields are formated as dates. I haven't >played around enough to reformat it yet. > >Mike H ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050323222302.68271.qmail [at] web81708.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:23:02 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Heinicke Subject: Re: Rigging Software In-Reply-To: 6667 --- Delbert Hall wrote: > Mike, > > Are you ralking about cells B3 and B4 in tab labeled > "9. D-d Ration"? Mine > are numbers, not dates. B7 and B8 are formatted as > percentages, but all the > others are general numbers. Delbert, Those are the exact cells that I am talking about. When I type in a number, it pops up as a date when I advance to the next cell. I have tried whole numbers, decimals, and fractions. They call come up as a date. 1/8 comes up as "8-JAN". Now to just figure out why the difference between our files. I'll drop and email to ATM soon just to see what they have to say about it. Mike H ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <55.6faef18d.2f734808 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:30:32 EST Subject: Re: List gathering In a message dated 23/03/05 20:16:39 GMT Standard Time, barney [at] josephchansen.com writes: > This reminds me of the meeting I attended ?? years ago about a lighting > instrument symbol standard. I remember a lot about that presentation... > none good. The part that this specifically reminds me of is that > someone stood up and asked "What is the standard for a 4-1/2" leko?" and > the presenter's response was "We could not come to a conclusion so it > will be up to the individual designer." Many years ago, the CIE devised a standard set of symbols, to indicate the generic type of lanterns.Profile, varifocal profile, fresnel, flood and so on. I have always used these, annotated to say exactly what luminaire I had in mind. They are no good if you are planning how to load in a tight bar, but at the design stage, they allow you to say: "I want a profile here, a fresnel there" and so on. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:33:15 GMT Subject: Re: plotters Message-Id: <20050323.143319.2331.40350 [at] webmail28.lax.untd.com> We bought a NEW 4 cartridge DesignJet 100 from a retailer at a cost of $800 incl. tax + shipping. It is set up for 'D' size 24" x 36" sheets. The default printer driver bundled with AutoCad 3D is for this machine. The DesignJet 120 may be better for your POSTER needs for ~$1000, as it uses six colors of ink cartridges. I have never needed the warranty. /s/ Richard > Paper size should be at least 24", roll-fed, and possibly up to 42" Budget is roughly $5000. I have looked through the HP DesignJets, and either the 500 or 800 looks about right. Any specific suggestions, or failing that, favorite models/brands? > Thanks, > Joe ------------------------------ Subject: RE: plotters Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:35:49 -0700 Message-ID: <469E256D47873149A321069F4F29CBA8E34E74 [at] csf-beta.csf.localnet> From: "Clare Adams" We bought a DesignJet 450C plotter a couple of years ago, and it's been very reliable. Was the right price, too. 24" wide, though sometimes I wish we had gotten the larger size. Clare Adams Lighting Designer College of Santa Fe ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <8.64e0a1e7.2f734ea8 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:58:48 EST Subject: BOOK for Learning BASIC ELECTRICAL was: 240/120 balancing Cc: bpmunroe [at] gmail.com May I recommend : "Wiring Simplified" by H. P. Richter and W. C. Schwan paperback about $10 IIRC ISBN 0-9603294-6-3 Park Publishing, 350 Main Street, Somerset WI 54025 phone (715) 247-5076 1-800-841-0383 Fax 715-247-5062 Covers: Safety, terminology, wire types and sizes, fuses, grounding, circuit basics, updating older installations, service entrance, electrical motors, and much more. Though aimed at home/farm wiring needs, there's enough overlap with theatrical to make it an excellent resource. Explains some of the code points in terms of "this is why and how" not just "here's the code." Has an index and glossary in the back. Great diagrams. The drawings of the guy in the "what happens if it's not grounded properly" section are worth the price alone! About a 10th grade reading level. HTH. Kristi R-C In a message dated 3/23/5 11:39:04 AM, bpmunroe [at] gmail.com writes: << Is there an "intro to power distro" book or reference material anywhere? Not quite a "for dummies" level, but something that explains it in more lay-terms and less code-speak? >> ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Temporary US curtain ideas needed Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:24:35 -0800 Message-ID: <407DF7D68DD30440B5CEB70ED234D1CF0316E36F [at] excuswa100.americas.unity> From: "Cyr, Dale" in this situation, I've used drapes that we rented=20 from the local 'trade show decorator / pipe and drape' house. safety pin together, pretty inexpensive, very lightweight, worked adequately for the short term. send 'em back when your done, and they do the laundry :) dale cyr Training Supervisor IATSE Local 93 -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of MissWisc [at] aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 2:15 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Temporary US curtain ideas needed I'm looking for suggestions for an inexpensive, reasonably light weight=20 fabric (?) for either single use or something that could be put up and taken down=20 each year. I do not have the budget for traditional velour, nor would I want=20 to leave the item up given the stage's more common use. Ideas? Stories of what's worked? Tales of what to avoid? (Mike R. - this is=20 at Holy Cross... if you know any history or know who I could call, I'd=20 appreciate it!) Many thanks!! Kristi R-C ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050323235828.79945.qmail [at] web51408.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:58:28 -0800 (PST) From: Al Fitch Subject: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question In-Reply-To: I was going to look into the archives for my answer but as long as I have to ask how to access the archives, I might as well ask my marley question. I have to remove black shoe scuff marks from the marley (since I opened my big mouth and pointed it out to the choreograhper). What is the easiest, most non-toxic way to do this? I know pencil erasers do well on our grey marley. Thanks, Al Fitch Be Kind, Smile and Have Fun. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45c56d34050323160155534ba8 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:01:34 -0500 From: Jared Fortney Reply-To: Jared Fortney Subject: automation info. In-Reply-To: References: For those of you looking for information on automation systems, I thought I'd pass along a term I learned in a class. Try searching for "mechatronics" for information about actuators, sensors, controllers and the like. In addition, if your shop is looking for a good general (industrial) reference for all things automation, I highly recommend the book "Mechatronics : Electronic Control Systems in Mechanical and Electrical Engineering" (ISBN: 0131216333). It's pretty expensive for introductory use, but it is a nice reference. FYI. -Jared Fortney UC-CCM, TD&P ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:04:37 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question Message-id: <42420415.DA4B615B [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: Al Fitch wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > I have to remove black shoe scuff marks from the > marley (since I opened my big mouth and pointed it out > to the choreograhper). The ballet company for whom I worked used to do this with steel wool, a floor buffer and a little ammonia. Person one does a sloppy wet mop of the floor, person two comes through with the steel wool and works on the most troublesome spots, person three follows along with the floor buffer and person four mops it all up. If you're too heavy with the steel wool you will damage the floor. Come to think of it, it damages the floor anyway, but in my four years there it didn't effect the performance of the floor. I suppose you could just use a floor buffer with a coarse pad and that would help to some degree. Might not get the really dark scrapes, though. Steve Litterst -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <020401c53007$818e0600$6401a8c0 [at] chris> From: "Chris Warner" Cc: jared.fortney [at] gmail.com (Jared Fortney) References: Subject: Re: automation info. Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:22:04 -0800 Might also look under industrial automation as well. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jared Fortney" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 4:01 PM Subject: automation info. > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > For those of you looking for information on automation systems, I > thought I'd pass along a term I learned in a class. Try searching for > "mechatronics" for information about actuators, sensors, controllers > and the like. In addition, if your shop is looking for a good general > (industrial) reference for all things automation, I highly recommend > the book "Mechatronics : Electronic Control Systems in Mechanical and > Electrical Engineering" (ISBN: 0131216333). It's pretty expensive for > introductory use, but it is a nice reference. > > FYI. > > -Jared Fortney > UC-CCM, TD&P > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 3/23/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 3/23/2005 ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <86.2496ed4b.2f73643e [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:30:54 EST Subject: Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question Cc: fitchal [at] yahoo.com In a message dated 3/23/5 5:59:08 PM, fitchal [at] yahoo.com writes: << What is the easiest, most non-toxic way to do this? >> Not certain if this is recommended by the manufacturer, but I've used Soft Scrub cleanser and a cloth fon spots/scuffs. Rinse well with clean water and dry. Kristi R-C ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:38:57 -0800 From: Brian Munroe Reply-To: Brian Munroe Subject: Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question In-Reply-To: References: On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:58:28 -0800 (PST), Al Fitch wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I have to remove black shoe scuff marks from the > marley (since I opened my big mouth and pointed it out > to the choreograhper). Try the products available from Rosebrand (unless they jammed you on soft goods rentals !) http://www.rosebrand.com/A_Com/showprod.cfm?&DID=6&CATID=13&ObjectGroup_ID=88 Also check out the products at stagestep: http://www2.mailordercentral.com/STAGESTEP/products.asp?dept=49 Ammonia is not recommended for vinyl floors. This is from flooradvice.com: "What should I clean my floor with? When cleaning your floor use a mild neutral cleaner, such as EFS Floor Cleaner. Do not use cleaners with ammonia or abrasives in them, as they can permanently damage your vinyl dance floor." Try goof-off or goo-gone, but try it on a small, offstage spot first. Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:40:43 EST Subject: Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question In a message dated 3/23/05 7:05:27 PM, slitterst [at] ithaca.edu writes: << I suppose you could just use a floor buffer with a coarse pad and that would help to some degree. Might not get the really dark scrapes, though. >> I once had to take a Marley ( this was over 25 years ago so it was in fact a "real" Marley ") and use the WHITE side for the first time ever in a television studio. Needless to say the White side was NASTY dirty from years of use of the BLACK side exclusively. The television studio had a nice, clean concrete driveway to it's loading dock. We laid the floor out there, half of it at a time. Hosed it down, then mopped it good with non sudsing ammonia, got out a floor buffer with a medium ( #2 ? ) pad, and then literally hosed it off. The warm spring time Florida sun dried it off in no time and the floor looked like new. very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4637909c0503231727356c9718 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:27:55 -0500 From: Adam Janzen Reply-To: Adam Janzen Subject: Re: Email address harvesting (hiding from) In-Reply-To: References: Hey, Here's a different version if you have .asp pages...it can also easily be converted into JavaScript too... just copy and paste the code below into the top of the pages, or put this into a file called mail.inc and put into the top of the pages that you have e-mail links to.... So, all you have to do is: <% call writemail("stagecraft","theatrical.net","Stagecraft Mailing List") %> to get a link called 'Stagecraft Mailing List' for stagecraft [at] theatrical.net. HTH, Adam <% sub writemail(user,hostname,linktext) response.write("" & linktext & "") end sub %> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:08:23 -0500, Barney Simon wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > >In a message dated 23/03/05 00:04:05 GMT Standard Time, > >deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes: > > > > > > > >>As I have e-mail addresses on our theatre web site, I tend to get a HUGE > >> amount of spam generated as a result (most of which is caught by the Yahoo > >> filters, however). > >> > On our company web site, I've picked up a little piece of (java) code > that keeps our addresses from being harvested from our website. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:34:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Rigging Software From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > When I type in a number, it pops up as a date when I > advance to the next cell. I have tried whole numbers, > decimals, and fractions. They call come up as a date. > 1/8 comes up as "8-JAN". I get the same "Date" results. > Now to just figure out why the difference between our > files. I'll drop and email to ATM soon just to see > what they have to say about it. Let us know what they have to say about it. Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Cayuga NY USA bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <208c718bc1f93b072c66f2993342cd5d [at] theprices.net> From: Noah Price Subject: Re: Email address harvesting (hiding from) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:23:29 -0800 I use three different methods in various parts of the Stagecraft site. I'm moving the member pages over to a graphic method that uses graphics for the " [at] " and the ".com" but text for the actual user name and domain name. That way the graphics are cached and don't get downloaded for every page if you browse the member pages. In the digest archive and on the searchable archive I change " [at] " to " [at] ". I'm concerned that's a bit to easy to detect, but it's easy to automate so that's how I went... And recently I've been using a JavaScript that's a bit simpler to use than a graphic. I use this format on my theatrical.net pages.