Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 22031545; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 03:00:30 -0700 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #375 Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 03:00:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on prxy.net X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, RAZOR2_CF_RANGE_51_100,RAZOR2_CHECK,URIBL_AB_SURBL,URIBL_OB_SURBL, URIBL_SBL,URIBL_SC_SURBL,URIBL_WS_SURBL autolearn=no version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #375 1. Dance Floor Replacement by "Stephen E. Rees" 2. Re: Theatre Renovation by Greg Bierly 3. Re: Dance Floor Replacement by IAEG [at] aol.com 4. Re: Auto Cad 2005 for $99.95 -- is this legal?? by Steve Jones 5. Lightingbusiness down the toilet by Erwin Rol 6. Re: Lightingbusiness down the toilet by John McKernon 7. Re: Dance Floor Replacement by Barney Simon 8. Re: backstage lighting cables by "Michael Finney" 9. Re: Dance Floor Replacement by "Stephen E. Rees" 10. Re: Theatre Renovation by Wood Chip-P26398 11. Re: Theatre Renovation by "Karl G. Ruling" 12. Re: Theatre Renovation by Wood Chip-P26398 13. Re: backstage lighting cables by "Alex M. Postpischil" 14. Polishing copper by "Paul Guncheon" 15. Re: Polishing copper by Richard Wolpert 16. Re: Polishing copper by Dale Farmer 17. Re: Polishing copper by "Occy" 18. Re: Theatre Renovation by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 19. Electrical math check by Michael Heinicke 20. Re: Electrical math check - batteries by "jsmith at theatrewireless.com" 21. Re: Electrical math check by David Duffy 22. CD80 dimmer pack trouble by "Don Taco" 23. Re: Electrical math check by Dale Farmer 24. Re: Electrical math shock check by "Alf Sauve" 25. Re: Polishing copper by Jacqueline Haney Kidwell 26. Re: Student Survey by Omar Rasheed Sharief 27. Re: CD80 dimmer pack trouble by "Aaron N O'Quinn" 28. Re: CD80 dimmer pack trouble by Nicholas Kuhl *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <426CE57E.7050301 [at] fredonia.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:41:34 -0400 From: "Stephen E. Rees" Reply-To: Rees [at] fredonia.edu Subject: Dance Floor Replacement Hi, Our incoming dance instructor has been allowed to redo the dance studio with a better flooring system than is now there. The university has obtained four bids to date and while there are two front runners at the moment from a pricing standpoint, I've been asked to solicit the wisdom of the list with regard to the proposed systems for permanent installation. The studio is used for a variety of dance styles from Modern, Jazz, Tap, Ballet. The room is also used for rehearsing the musical and occasionally an opera. They are: Harlequin Liberty panels Stagestep Timestep panels L'Air Excell II suspended modules A Rosco product that I am having a hard time identifying. I think it is Performance but no subfloor is indicated. I am coming to this process very late in the game and know little about dance floors. Any assistance in making a decision would be appreciated. Contact me on or off list as you wish. TIA. Regards, Steve Rees, TD SUNY-Fredonia Fredonia, NY ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: Theatre Renovation Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:35:32 -0400 > At the up-house position are two round > classrooms on turntables. For smaller productions and events, they > rotate > to become classrooms, for larger ones they open up to become part of > the > room. Our High School had this design in the original plans before they decided to renovate the existing structure as opposed to building a new building. 15 years later I still have people come in looking for the "rotating stage" ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:43:45 EDT Subject: Re: Dance Floor Replacement In a message dated 4/25/05 8:42:18 AM, Rees [at] fredonia.edu writes: << The studio is used for a variety of dance styles from Modern, Jazz, Tap, Ballet. The room is also used for rehearsing the musical and occasionally an opera. >> first and foremost, understand that no matter what flooring system you put in you aren't going to make everyone happy without checking the specs, I am fairly certain that the panel systems you are mentioning provide a sprung sub surface but really need a vinyl covering over them. I know of one community college that put down the Harlequin panels and DIDN'T put a covering on them, and that is just not a satisfactory surface long term. There's been a lot of discussion on the list about dance flooring but let me briefly layout the following, Ballet will like a floor that has a slight foam cushion built in, , toe shoes like that, less likely to slip "en pointe" Modern will hate that floor as bare feet do not turn on it well Regardless of what floor you get, and what the manufacturers reccomendations are, the ballet folks are goign to want to use rosin on at LEAST their shoes, Rosin is a religon, , you can preach Slip No Mor all you want, , they are still going to use rosin the Modern folk will hate that as it is again bad on the bare feet. The modern folks are going to roll on the floor and get body oils etc on it, The ballet folk will hate that as it makes the floor too slippery ( think of the guys with the towels at Basketball games ) They want to do Tap on the floor ? oh my, , , that's a whole OTHER battle. I am begining to like the old european solution of bare, end grain /. quarter sawn wooden floors, , with no finish on them what so ever, , and some small old fashioned watering cans to moisten the floor, , causing the wood to swell slightly as well as actually be less slippery ( it's a ritual at schools like Kirov and Bolshoi in Russia ) No matter what, , it's a struggle, , , , prepare thyself for battle ! very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:02:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Auto Cad 2005 for $99.95 -- is this legal?? From: Steve Jones Message-ID: In-Reply-To: The answer is in your post. You wrote: "We offer the software for downloading only, it means that you do not receive a fancy package, a printed manual and license that actually aggregate the largest part of the retail price." Read carefully---- 1) The software is for DOWNLOADING only. Doesn't say anything about your legally being able to use it. Just $99.95 fee to download it. 2) "you do not receive, ..., ..., and LICENSE"!!!! They say right there that you do NOT get a license for this software. That's what makes it a pirated copy! Just my thoughts! Steve On 4/23/05 11:18 AM, "Michael Powers" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Ladies and gents, > > I just received an e-mail leading to the following website with a lot of > software offerings. > > http://oemfactory.net/index.php > > The advertise A-Cad 2005 for $99.95 and under their FAQ section explain > the price thusly: > >> Why is the software so inexpensive? >> We offer the software for downloading only, it means that you do not > receive a fancy package, a printed manual and license that actually > aggregate the >largest part of the retail price. In this situation we > are restricted in selling the products for private purposes only! You > will not be able to get a technical >support and different rebates from > the manufacturer. Updates are available for the most of our products > (you may ask our support staff for the >exceptions) that make them fully > functional and operating. Additionally you save the delivery cost. > > Does the fact that they don't give you "a printed manual and license" > and "You will not be able to get a technical support.... from the > manufacturer." indicate that they are selling a bootleg copy or is > there a chance this is legit??? This price sounds "too good to be > true", and we all know what that usually means! Any thoughts or wisdom > from the list??? > > Michael > > Michael Powers, Technical Director > UMass Amherst > 112 FAC West > Amherst, Ma. 01003 > > 413-545-6821 Voice > 413-577-0025 Fax > > mfpowers [at] theater.umass.edu > mptecdir [at] aol.com > > > > > ------------------------------ Subject: Lightingbusiness down the toilet From: Erwin Rol Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:16:33 +0200 Message-Id: <1114438594.18971.22.camel [at] drake.home.erwinrol.com> Charles Cella and co-inventors of the well know innovator Color Kinetics patented "illuminating water in a toilet bowl". http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/25/1142216&from=rss Now they can not deny anymore that they just produce a lot of shit, cause it floats there nicely illuminated. Yet another sad day in the world of patents, for everybody in the EU there is still a small hope we can limit at least the patenting on software. http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/ And don't reward companies that abuse the patent system, just buy from one of their competitors. - Erwin -- Erwin Rol Software Engineering - http://www.erwinrol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:03:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Lightingbusiness down the toilet From: John McKernon Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > Charles Cella and co-inventors of the well know innovator Color Kinetics > patented "illuminating water in a toilet bowl". Actually, their patent covers the use of LED lighting systems on anything and everything found in a home, including toothbrushes, razors, cologne bottles, shower heads, dog collars, brooms, and air fresheners - just to name a few. - John ------------------------------ Message-ID: <426D09A7.4020502 [at] JosephCHansen.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:15:51 -0400 From: Barney Simon Organization: Joseph C Hansen Co. Inc. Subject: Re: Dance Floor Replacement References: In-Reply-To: IAEG [at] aol.com wrote: >...no matter what flooring system you put in >you aren't going to make everyone happy.....No matter what, it's a struggle... > Well stated. -- Barney Simon JC Hansen Co., Inc Drapes Drops and Dance Floors 423 West 43rd Street, NYC 212-246-8055 F:212-246-8189 JCHansen.com 866-988-8055 ------------------------------ Subject: Re: backstage lighting cables Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:17:57 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Michael Finney" > 3. Power cords for stage lighting and backstage > lighting may not be taped to the floor. Cable > protector ramps may be used. > > The cables in question are run to our ground row cyc > lights across the wing leading to the US crossover. In > my years of theatre I've never had this problem arise > from a fire marshall inspection. > > My question is this: does anyone have code citations > (NEC, Fire, etc.) that substantiate this request or > specifically allow it for temporary installs?? The > shows are mounted for about a week at a time > (including tech)... Thanks in advance. Weighting in a little late here, but I just happened to have breakfast = with one of my favourite AHJ's this morning and this subject came up for = an upcoming special event. June suspects that your local fire marshal = is actually more concerned about impact damage to the unprotected = cables, with the potential for resultant shorts (which are obviously a = fire hazard) than they are with any kind of trip hazard. To = over-simplify, it's the same reason that running cables under a carpet = is considered a no-no. Even if you're looking at nothing other than = foot traffic, the potential for damage to the cables if very real as is = the resultant risk of shorts/fire/general excitement. If it's a "no = traffic" area, then the AHJ may just be being over-cautious...which is = (in a lot of ways) their job. I'm out of the office, but I think the subject of unprotected cables is = address in both NEC, NFPA and (probably) the IBC. Just wish I could = cite chapter and verse! (June probably could, if I'd been smart enough = to ask...) Michael Finney Thinkwell Design & Production mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com www.thinkwelldesign.com =A0 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <426D1C69.3070904 [at] fredonia.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:35:53 -0400 From: "Stephen E. Rees" Reply-To: Rees [at] fredonia.edu Subject: Re: Dance Floor Replacement References: Yeah, I kinda suspected that. BTW, There will be a vinyl dance floor placed over the underlay as Keith suggested earlier. I believe it will be the Marley that is used for performances now. Steve Barney Simon wrote: > >> ...no matter what flooring system you put in you aren't going to make >> everyone happy.....No matter what, it's a struggle... >> > Well stated. > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <014D202957F6D8118924000F20D7342B059A32FE [at] az33exm01.corp.mot.com> From: Wood Chip-P26398 Subject: RE: Theatre Renovation Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:01:59 -0700 Don't know how common this is, but my wife's high school in Phoenix has the same design. Two huge turntables in the back that become classrooms (mostly for study halls). Each turntable has about 150 seats on it. Takes about 5 min to complete the turn. -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of CB One space at a high school in Nogales, AZ (don't laugh) has a very elegant solution to this problem. At the up-house position are two round classrooms on turntables. For smaller productions and events, they rotate to become classrooms, for larger ones they open up to become part of the room. ------------------------------ From: "Karl G. Ruling" Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:06:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Theatre Renovation Reply-to: kruling [at] esta.org Message-ID: <426CEB45.15608.E557CA [at] localhost> In-reply-to: Bill Conner wrote: > I have on two occasions over 25 years used a > scrim on a track for this - not changing acoustics much and allowing > view from the booth - but I understand neither is used much. (Karl - > Fairfield University is one - used or not? Extant?) > I've never seen the scrim in the house used in the Kelley Theatre at Fairfield University. I've never heard anyone say that they were lowering the scrim for a show or that they were at an event where it was used. Anytime I'm there and seated in the back of the house, I can look up and see the bundled scrim, so it's still there unless it was recently removed. The scrim wasn't necessarily a bad idea; I don't think that the Quick Center is being used as originally envisioned. In fact, I am sure of it. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <014D202957F6D8118924000F20D7342B059A3380 [at] az33exm01.corp.mot.com> From: Wood Chip-P26398 Subject: RE: Theatre Renovation Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:33:46 -0700 The absolute worst use of curtains dividing Multi-use/ theatre areas was in a JC in Ft. Lauderdale. It was a gym with a stage? at one end. When open, had lots of seating, but lousy acoustics. When closed the theatre wasn't too bad, but the gym floor was open and basketball games usually went on during the show. From about 1/2 way back the ball games were louder than the actors. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050425191614.92886.qmail [at] web61302.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:16:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Alex M. Postpischil" Subject: Re: backstage lighting cables Hi all- Thanks for all the responses & info. Now that the show is down, my worries are over (for now?!)... Anyway, the electricians did carpet over the cables. And, either the FM didn't re-inspect the cables or he was accepting of the carpeting. However, I think I'd like to use cable bridges in the future... -alex- -alex- Alex M. Postpischil, Technical Director Department of Theatre Arts University of Mississippi University, MS 38677 662.915.6993 662.915.5968 - fax __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:03:43 -1000 From: "Paul Guncheon" Subject: Polishing copper Message-id: <001501c549d1$e2ec59e0$0202a8c0 [at] yourxhtr8hvc4p> References: I appeal to the collective wisdom of the list. I want to polish about 150' of 3/4" copper rigid plumbing tubing along with around 100 fittings. Anybody have a quick way to do this. I really don't want to sit at a buffing wheel if there's a faster way. One jeweler recommended that I put a white nylon scrub pad on a jitterbug sander for the long pieces. I also know that Snow-Bol (sp) toilet bowl cleaner or CLR takes most of the tarnish off I also would like to know of any coating that one has use to apply to the polished copper to keep it shiny. Thanks, Paul "I bet they'll pay us in pennies" sensed Tom. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:29:53 -0400 From: Richard Wolpert Subject: RE: Polishing copper In-reply-to: Message-id: Don't know about the cleaning part. That sounds like work no matter what you do. To keep it shiny, use a spray can of clear gloss laquer. Hang the pipe/fittings with clothes hangers, and they'll dry in a day. I used spray laquer on some brass fittings about 20 years ago. Still shiny and tarnish free. One caveat, though. Once the copper is cleaned, make sure it is rinsed with distilled water and handled with cotton gloves. If you get any skin oil or other material on the copper, it will tarnish under the laquer coating. Richard A.Wolpert President Union Connector Co., Inc. 40 Dale Street West Babylon, NY 11704 Ph: 631-753-9550 ext. 204 Fx: 631-753-9560 richw [at] unionconnector.com -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Paul Guncheon Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 4:04 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Polishing copper For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- I appeal to the collective wisdom of the list. I want to polish about 150' of 3/4" copper rigid plumbing tubing along with around 100 fittings. Anybody have a quick way to do this. I really don't want to sit at a buffing wheel if there's a faster way. One jeweler recommended that I put a white nylon scrub pad on a jitterbug sander for the long pieces. I also know that Snow-Bol (sp) toilet bowl cleaner or CLR takes most of the tarnish off I also would like to know of any coating that one has use to apply to the polished copper to keep it shiny. Thanks, Paul "I bet they'll pay us in pennies" sensed Tom. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <426D69B6.ABFDD102 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:05:42 -0400 From: Dale Farmer Organization: The fuzz in the back of the fridge. Subject: Re: Polishing copper References: Paul Guncheon wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I appeal to the collective wisdom of the list. > > I want to polish about 150' of 3/4" copper rigid plumbing tubing along with > around 100 fittings. Anybody have a quick way to do this. I really don't > want to sit at a buffing wheel if there's a faster way. One jeweler > recommended that I put a white nylon scrub pad on a jitterbug sander for the > long pieces. I also know that Snow-Bol (sp) toilet bowl cleaner or CLR > takes most of the tarnish off > > I also would like to know of any coating that one has use to apply to the > polished copper to keep it shiny. Is this copper pipe and fittings already assembled into some sort of plumbing nightmare? IF yes, there is a lot of elbow grease in your future. Buffing wheel on a portable drill to do the easy to access parts. Hand buffing to get all the cracks and crevices. After it is shined up, wipe it down with some acetone to remove any residual oils and then give it a dose of clear spray lacquer. These last two steps in a well ventilated, no smoking area. If you are going to be soldering them up, polish them up at a buffing wheel first, then solder them up, then clean and repolish as needed. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References: Subject: Re: Polishing copper Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:35:33 -0700 Fast cheap way of cleaning copper is salt and lemon. Like when cleaning a copper bottom pan sprinkle salt on half of a lemon and just rub the lemon around on the pan bottom becomes sparkling copper with no effort. So a solution of salt and lemon juice and a rag should do the same thing, might want to wear rubber gloves. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Guncheon" > I appeal to the collective wisdom of the list. > > I want to polish about 150' of 3/4" copper rigid plumbing tubing along > with > around 100 fittings. Anybody have a quick way to do this. I really don't > want to sit at a buffing wheel if there's a faster way. One jeweler > recommended that I put a white nylon scrub pad on a jitterbug sander for > the > long pieces. I also know that Snow-Bol (sp) toilet bowl cleaner or CLR > takes most of the tarnish off > > I also would like to know of any coating that one has use to apply to the > polished copper to keep it shiny. > > Thanks, > > Paul > > "I bet they'll pay us in pennies" sensed Tom. > > ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Theatre Renovation Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:40:10 -0700 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I know that school as I inspected it. Interesting set up. Doom -- Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. - www.riskit.com Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Wood Chip-P26398 Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 10:02 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Theatre Renovation For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Don't know how common this is, but my wife's high school in Phoenix has the same design. Two huge turntables in the back that become classrooms (mostly for study halls). Each turntable has about 150 seats on it. Takes about 5 min to complete the turn. -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of CB One space at a high school in Nogales, AZ (don't laugh) has a very elegant solution to this problem. At the up-house position are two round classrooms on turntables. For smaller productions and events, they rotate to become classrooms, for larger ones they open up to become part of the room. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <426D8A1C.6080505 [at] sbcglobal.net> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:23:56 -0500 From: Michael Heinicke Subject: Electrical math check Here's the situation: running a 100 watt inverter off of a 12v battery. By my math at full load it will be pulling 8.3 amps. Does this mean that a 50aH battery should last about 6 hours and that I would need a 66aH or larger battery to last 8 hours? Just making sure that I am remembering things correctly... Mike H ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "jsmith at theatrewireless.com" Subject: RE: Electrical math check - batteries Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:44:30 -0400 Organization: Home of the RC4 Wireless Dimmer System In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <20050426004430.BGX26102.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net [at] p3m866> > Here's the situation: running a 100 watt inverter off of a > 12v battery. > By my math at full load it will be pulling 8.3 amps. Does > this mean that a 50aH battery should last about 6 hours and > that I would need a 66aH or larger battery to last 8 hours? > Just making sure that I am remembering things correctly... > > Mike H Hey Mike, Your math is correct. Unfortunately, battery ratings are very misleading. To be competitive, manufacturers of batteries publish the highest possible ratings. Lead-acid batteries do not have a linear discharge as current draw rises -- they provide a lot more total power when the discharge rate is low. So battery ratings are typically based on a 20 hour discharge. At high discharge rates they only deliver half what you would expect. A 50 A/hr battery in good condition and fully charged WILL provide 2.5A for 20 hours. But it will provide 25A for only a bit more than an hour, and 50A for a little less than half an hour (approximately). Of all the different lead-acid batteries that can be readily purchased, I've had the best luck with Marine batteries. These batteries are usually NOT maintenance free, so you can check fluid levels and specific gravity to keep them in good shape over the long haul. If you don't want to get into that kind of thing, the better brands of sealed gel-cell are pretty good. Gel-cells use a gelled acid so the battery can be oriented in any direction. Liquid acid batteries should be used only in their normally upright position. The performance of batteries has a lot to do with the thickness of the lead plates and the overall size of the cells. They can be engineered to favor various different kinds of applications. Car batteries are optimized for constant charging and intense but short discharges. This makes them less than ideal for other applications. We publish a free booklet about batteries. I strongly recommend downloading it at http://www.theatrewireless.com/pdfs/Battery%20Selection%20and%20Maintenance. pdf. It doesn't matter what your application is, this battery info is completely applicable. Jim Smith ------------------------------------------ Visit www.theatrewireless.com for more information about the RC4 Wireless Dimming System. Soundsculpture Incorporated office toll free 1-866-258-4577 / local 416-259-8499 fax toll free 1-866-237-6641 emergency cellular 416-720-5802 jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <426D9048.70906 [at] audiovisualdevices.com.au> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 10:50:16 +1000 From: David Duffy Subject: Re: Electrical math check References: In-Reply-To: Michael Heinicke wrote: > Here's the situation: running a 100 watt inverter off of a 12v > battery. By my math at full load it will be pulling 8.3 amps. Does > this mean that a 50aH battery should last about 6 hours and that I > would need a 66aH or larger battery to last 8 hours? > Just making sure that I am remembering things correctly... A 100W inverter will draw more than its 100W rated output as it is not 100% efficient in the conversion. I'd guess that it would actually draw closer to 12 Amps at full load. As for the run-time, you'd be best to ask the battery supplier as it's not as simple as dividing the Ah capacity by the current draw in most cases. David... -- ___________________________________________ David Duffy Audio Visual Devices P/L U8, 9-11 Trade St, Cleveland 4163 Australia Ph: +61 7 38210362 Fax: +61 7 38210281 Our Web Site: www.audiovisualdevices.com.au ___________________________________________ ------------------------------ Message-ID: <052801c54a03$6f97bde0$e28aaa43 [at] DonTaco> From: "Don Taco" References: Subject: CD80 dimmer pack trouble Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:58:21 -0700 If any of those of you who babysit old CD80 packs recognize these symptoms, please help us shortcut our troubleshooting. About 30 minutes into a show, (assumedly, once things have warmed up), odd dimmer behavior appears. Lights dim up and down, not fast enough to call it a flicker, exactly. Many lights on many dimmers exhibit this, but not all the lights. (But that could be mis-leading. It could be different filament response times and dimmer loads affecting this.) (We haven't sorted out which dimmers/circuits/channels yet. working on that. the behavior does occur on circuits plugged into both of the dimmer packs, however. we think.) One of the first things we looked at was a loose ground on the control cable. We don't think that's it, but it's still not ruled out either. We changed out the board, and the misbehavior continued, so we don't think it is the board or the DMX-AMX converter. We installed a spare control circuit in one pack, the behavior continued, moved it to the other pack, the behavior continued, so we think it isn't the control card, though this is by no means proven. We wondered if a bad dimmer was affecting just one phase of the power, but it turns out to not be three-phase. We can see that one of the dimmer packs has a steady 'power' light, and the other one flickers. (When the problem is manifest.) We then found that if you turn off the breaker to dimmer 3 on that pack, the 'power' light goes steady. We are now testing to determine if the problem only manifests when dimmer 3 is 'on.' We're also trying to test whether the behavior continues when there is no control cable signal. That's as far as we've gotten. We surmise that a) we have a control signal problem we just haven't identified, b) we have a failing dimmer doing odd things to the power supply, or c) we don't have a proper clue to the real answer yet. Anyone been through this? Thanks!! I try to never let on that I know anything about plumbing, but there are days when I'd rather be a plumber than chase an intermittent electrical problem. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <426DA225.56DC06D4 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:06:29 -0400 From: Dale Farmer Organization: The fuzz in the back of the fridge. Subject: Re: Electrical math check References: David Duffy wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Michael Heinicke wrote: > > > Here's the situation: running a 100 watt inverter off of a 12v > > battery. By my math at full load it will be pulling 8.3 amps. Does > > this mean that a 50aH battery should last about 6 hours and that I > > would need a 66aH or larger battery to last 8 hours? > > Just making sure that I am remembering things correctly... > > A 100W inverter will draw more than its 100W rated output as > it is not 100% efficient in the conversion. I'd guess that it would > actually draw closer to 12 Amps at full load. As for the run-time, > you'd be best to ask the battery supplier as it's not as simple as > dividing the Ah capacity by the current draw in most cases. > David... Yup. Most of the consumer grade inverters I've seen measured had crappy efficiencies. Also don't believe the Ah ratings on batteries are all that they are advertised to be. The battery also has a time duration and discharge rate to go with that Ah rating. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <053e01c54a07$25311f90$0400a8c0 [at] ALFOFFICE> Reply-To: "Alf Sauve" From: "Alf Sauve" Subject: Re: Electrical math shock check Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:24:57 -0400 Mike, As others have told you, your inverter isn't 100% efficient, and battery ratings are usually shown at their best possible discharge curve. There are maintenance free (sealed), deep cycle, marine/RV batteries. And, some of the manufacturers even publish their discharge curves. You pick the current, the curve shows you the voltage over time. (Some I said. Not all.) Alf [Personal nit: Amp should be capitalized since it is a person's name (well part of their name), as should Hertz, Volt, and Watt. Hence, Ah and not aH. I'm sure other's have an opposite rule of thumb. My Strunk is from 1957 and I still like to put two spaces after each period.] > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Heinicke" > To: "Stagecraft" > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 8:23 PM > Subject: Electrical math check > > >> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> Here's the situation: running a 100 watt inverter off of a 12v battery. >> By my math at full load it will be pulling 8.3 amps. Does this mean that >> a 50aH battery should last about 6 hours and that I would need a 66aH or >> larger battery to last 8 hours? >> Just making sure that I am remembering things correctly... >> >> Mike H > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050426022807.89583.qmail [at] web52005.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:28:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacqueline Haney Kidwell Subject: Re: Polishing copper In-Reply-To: 6667 Salt, and either lemon juice or vinegar, whichever is cheaper. --- Paul Guncheon wrote: > > I appeal to the collective wisdom of the list. > > I want to polish about 150' of 3/4" copper rigid > plumbing tubing along with around 100 fittings. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Omar Rasheed Sharief Message-ID: <7294dd729195.7291957294dd [at] imap.georgetown.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:37:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Student Survey For those of you who have already replied to this email=2C I=27m sorry to= bother you again but I accidentally erased the email that you sent me=2E= However=2C I still need the information so if you could possibly send i= t again I would greatly appreciate it=2E Thank You I am a student at Georgetown University and we are currently upgrading ou= r theater department=2E I have been granted the opportunity to help with= this project=2E I am doing a survey to to try and get people=27s opinio= ns on certain tools so that we can make a decision on what to get for our= new development=2E It would be a great help if you could complete the s= urvey and to me personally instead of the entire list because I need to g= ather the information and I don=27t want to clutter up the digest list wi= th the survey=2E Thank You=2E When filling out the survey please consider the following items=2C table saws radial arm saws Panel saws mig/tig welders Please complete the survey for each of the tools that you are familiar wi= th=2E FFE Survey 1=2E What name brand do you use=3F 2=2E How long have you had this item=3F 3=2E What after market add-ons do you have for the tool=3F 4=2E What did you have prior to purchasing this particular item=3F 5=2E How do you feel about the purchase=3F Was it worth it=3F 6=2E If you had it to do all over again=2C would you purchase another pro= duct another item=3F If so=2C which one=3F 7=2E If there could be any upgrades made to the product=2C what suggestio= ns would you make=3F 8=2E What kind of maintenance costs have you incurred=3F Please Explain=2E= Give examples and be specific 9=2E What other products were you considering=3F Why didn=92t you buy th= em=3F 10=2E How is maintenance=3F Since you=92ve had it how often has it malfu= nctioned or has it ever had to be sent off for maintenance=3F If so=2C t= hen how many times=3F 11=2E How user friendly is it=3F 12=2E On a scale from 1 to 5 rate the product on the following=3A =B7 Versatility 1 2 3 4 5 =B7 Value 1 2 3 4 5 =B7 Ease of use 1 2 3 4 5 =B7 Maintenance 1 2 3 4 5 ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Aaron N O'Quinn" Subject: RE: CD80 dimmer pack trouble Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:47:25 -0500 Message-ID: <000401c54a0a$46f42160$0201a8c0 [at] Lapto> In-Reply-To: Don, I think we experience a similar problem from time to time, when you say old CD 80s, how old are we talking about? We have a very old AMX system that we convert using a Gray box...thankfully, it is being replaced this summer! It has been a recurring problem in our theatre for a while and so there is a protocol burned into the minds of the electricians to follow when it happens. Now, I am not positive, but I think when the lights are doing this we simply reseat whichever dimmer is causing the problem. Flip the breakers, pull it out of the rack and shove it in as hard as possible. This usually fixes the problem. Our city rarely gives us a full 120 though it is usually in the 116 to 119 range, but this might be a problem. Since I am generally not an electrician, I could be thinking of the solution to an entirely different problem though. Regardless, good luck. Aaron -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Don Taco Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 8:58 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: CD80 dimmer pack trouble For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- If any of those of you who babysit old CD80 packs recognize these symptoms, please help us shortcut our troubleshooting. About 30 minutes into a show, (assumedly, once things have warmed up), odd dimmer behavior appears. Lights dim up and down, not fast enough to call it a flicker, exactly. Many lights on many dimmers exhibit this, but not all the lights. (But that could be mis-leading. It could be different filament response times and dimmer loads affecting this.) (We haven't sorted out which dimmers/circuits/channels yet. working on that. the behavior does occur on circuits plugged into both of the dimmer packs, however. we think.) One of the first things we looked at was a loose ground on the control cable. We don't think that's it, but it's still not ruled out either. We changed out the board, and the misbehavior continued, so we don't think it is the board or the DMX-AMX converter. We installed a spare control circuit in one pack, the behavior continued, moved it to the other pack, the behavior continued, so we think it isn't the control card, though this is by no means proven. We wondered if a bad dimmer was affecting just one phase of the power, but it turns out to not be three-phase. We can see that one of the dimmer packs has a steady 'power' light, and the other one flickers. (When the problem is manifest.) We then found that if you turn off the breaker to dimmer 3 on that pack, the 'power' light goes steady. We are now testing to determine if the problem only manifests when dimmer 3 is 'on.' We're also trying to test whether the behavior continues when there is no control cable signal. That's as far as we've gotten. We surmise that a) we have a control signal problem we just haven't identified, b) we have a failing dimmer doing odd things to the power supply, or c) we don't have a proper clue to the real answer yet. Anyone been through this? Thanks!! I try to never let on that I know anything about plumbing, but there are days when I'd rather be a plumber than chase an intermittent electrical problem. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 4/25/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 4/25/2005 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <426DBAA8.2070307 [at] bu.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:51:04 -0400 From: Nicholas Kuhl Subject: Re: CD80 dimmer pack trouble References: In-Reply-To: Don Taco wrote: > If any of those of you who babysit old CD80 packs recognize these > symptoms, please help us shortcut our troubleshooting. > > About 30 minutes into a show, (assumedly, once things have warmed > up), odd dimmer behavior appears. Lights dim up and down, not fast > enough to call it a flicker, exactly. Many lights on many dimmers > exhibit this, but not all the lights. My highschool ran into something pretty similiar to this, not on the CD80 rack we had, but on an outboard dimmer expansion unit that we had. We had a black box AMX-DMX converter that shat itself at some point, and after going into the expansion units on-board converter (that we had stopped using because it had issues at some point) and the problem went away. I wish I knew a little more, but my high school had enough tech people for us to specialize, so I had little to do with the lights. HTH, Nick Kuhl Boston U ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #375 *****************************