Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 22371957; Sat, 14 May 2005 03:00:27 -0700 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #396 Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 03:00:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on prxy.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.5 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, RISK_FREE autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #396 1. Re: [OT] Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses by "Tom Hackman" 2. Re: Photos (was Looking for 2D symbol...) by "C. Andrew Dunning" 3. Re: Maybe Moving to NJ - seeking advice on NJ/NYC area by Scott Parker 4. Re: [OT] Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses by Scott Parker 5. Re: Las Vegas things to see - by Sunil Rajan 6. Re: Las Vegas things to see - by "Jon Ares" 7. I'm A-Frayed Knot-- OT by Heather Carter 8. Re: bosuns chair WAS harnesses by Sunil Rajan 9. Re: bosuns chair WAS harnesses by "Simon Shuker" 10. Re: [OT] Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses by Sunil Rajan 11. Manhattan Caving.... by "Tony Deeming" 12. Re: [OT] NYC was Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses by MissWisc [at] aol.com 13. Student designers for faculty directed productions... by Scott Parker 14. Draft Fire Safety Curtain standard comment deadline by "Karl G. Ruling" 15. Re: Las Vegas things to see - by Delbert Hall 16. test by "Jim at TheatreWireless.com" 17. Re: [OT] Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses by Jonathan Wills 18. Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... by "Brown, Doug" 19. Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... by Stephen Litterst 20. Re: Draft Fire Safety Curtain standard comment deadline by "Nigel Worsley" 21. Re: [OT] Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses by Dale Farmer 22. Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... by Mark O'Brien 23. Re: Manhattan Caving.... by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 24. Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... by "Bill Nelson" 25. Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... by "Bill Nelson" 26. Re: [OT] Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses by Bruce Purdy 27. Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... by Kevin Lee Allen 28. Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 29. g-mail test post ignore by Michael Powers 30. Re: Draft Fire Safety Curtain standard comment deadline by "Karl G. Ruling" 31. eDrawings software by Jerry Durand 32. Re: eDrawings software by "Jim at TheatreWireless.com" 33. Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... by "Paul Schreiner" 34. Re: Student designers by usctd [at] columbia.sc 35. Re: non skid platforms by Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com 36. Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... by "David Bowman" 37. Thomas 9 lite parts by David Wetmore 38. Re: Manhattan Caving.... by David Carrico 39. Re: Grand Piano Frame by "Paul Guncheon" 40. Re: non skid platforms by "Paul Guncheon" 41. Re: Student Designers by "Randy Whitcomb" 42. Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... by Scott Parker 43. Re: Las Vegas things to see - WARNING e-mail clogging, off topic > post by "C. Dopher" 44. Re: [OT] Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses by Stuart Wheaton 45. Re: Thomas 9 lite parts by "Bill Nelson" 46. Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... by "Bill Nelson" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <000b01c557ba$1ee67340$87d11ed8 [at] Hackman1> From: "Tom Hackman" References: Subject: Re:[OT] Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:48:54 -0400 It has always been my personal evidence that I do in fact know my a% [at] from a hole in the ground. ;) >A speleologer (sp) is on this list !! How many other cavers are willing to >come out from under the >rock ? >Eddie ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "C. Andrew Dunning" Subject: RE: Photos (was Looking for 2D symbol...) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:01:31 -0500 Organization: Landru Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve - >Just to put a face to a name, C. Andrew is on page 2 of the >May Lighting Dimensions. >Care to give us some ID on the production photos printed there? Thanks for noticing... ;-) The photos at the top and bottom of the ad are from a women's conference called "Renewing the Heart," held here in Nashville a little while ago. The photo of me (with the background) was taken at Fellowship Church, just north of Dallas, TX. Does that help? If you want to see more photos of both projects, stop by the Web site below. Best Regards - C. Andrew Dunning Landru Design - Nashville, TN - cad [at] landrudesign.com www.landrudesign.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <90d9c9980505130617772a3fd [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:17:40 -0400 From: Scott Parker Reply-To: Scott Parker Subject: Re: Maybe Moving to NJ - seeking advice on NJ/NYC area In-Reply-To: References: What school? > I'm currently working on that right now. If all goes well, I'll be a *ga= sp* > high school teacher before the end of the summer. =20 > Cris Dopher, LD >=20 >=20 --=20 Take care, Scott Scott C. Parker ------------------------------ Message-ID: <90d9c99805051306315220bc57 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:31:54 -0400 From: Scott Parker Reply-To: Scott Parker Subject: Re: [OT] Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses In-Reply-To: References: In a previous life, I spent some time Cave Diving. Talk about special training and plenty of backup equipment. Later, Scott On 5/12/05, Eddie Kramer wrote: > A speleologer (sp) is on this list !! How many other cavers are willing = to come out from under the rock ? >=20 > Eddie > -- > -------------------- > Eddie Kramer IATSE #1 Member NEC Panel 15 >=20 --=20 Take care, Scott Scott C. Parker ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <8E837BDD-C3B5-11D9-A612-000A95BD64AC [at] earthlink.net> From: Sunil Rajan Subject: Re: Las Vegas things to see - Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:47:33 -0400 On May 13, 2005, at 6:00 AM, Stagecraft wrote: > If you haven't been to Lake Mead and Hoover Dam, > they are worth it, especially the dam tour. When my wife and I ran away to Vegas to get married, we ran out of time to do the dam tour... ; P I hear it's pretty cool. Oh, and there are quite a few people on this and the theatre-sound list that are working on shows there. I've heard NOTHING but raves about "O", even from the most bitter and jaded theatre professionals! A few even PAID to go see it, multiple times! Cheers, Sunil Rajan ...who was lucky enough to find a woman who wanted to run away to Vegas to get married, and thinks Dam Tours are funny... ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001501c557c2$df1870c0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Las Vegas things to see - Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 06:51:32 -0700 > > Cheers, > Sunil Rajan > ...who was lucky enough to find a woman who wanted to run away to Vegas to > get married, and thinks Dam Tours are funny... > National Lampoon thinks Dam Tours are funny too... "Vegas Vacation" "This is the dam tour. I'll be your dam tourguide. Does anyone have any dam questions?" "Yeah, where can I get som dam bait?" -- Jon Ares Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts www.hevanet.com/acreative www.wlhstheatre.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:56:16 -0400 Subject: I'm A-Frayed Knot-- OT From: Heather Carter Message-Id: For times when the clove half-hitch or surgeon's knot just won't "cut" it... may I suggest the Gordian Knot? The Mathematical Association has come up with a computer-generated simulation of the knots, plus description of how a Gordian knot may be tied. http://maa.org/devlin/devlin_9_01.html (Here they made a computer program to do it, and I could have just rented one of my new students to them for a very reasonable price!) --Heather. ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <5C03D45A-C3B7-11D9-A612-000A95BD64AC [at] earthlink.net> From: Sunil Rajan Subject: Re: bosuns chair WAS harnesses Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:00:27 -0400 On May 13, 2005, at 6:00 AM, Stagecraft wrote: > Subject: Re: bosuns chair WAS harnesses > Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 10:05:38 -0400 > > I have an older Petzl bod harness. Not sure what the changes are in > the V2. > I have always been pretty happy with it, but it has seen alot more use > for > caving and climbing than theatre. So, unless I really mess up, I'm not > hanging for extended periods of time. For the $50 I paid ten-ish years > ago, > it has been a good investment. I'll second the Petzl stuff. I own one (maybe another one by this summer), and it was flat out one of the most comfortable sit harnesses I tried on. I don't know if it has an OSHA rating (anyone?), but has been a total workhorse (especially doing high-steel IA calls on arena/stadium shows), and was cheaper than most "safety" harnesses that are unpadded nylon webbing. Cheers, Sunil Rajan Freelance Audio Mercenary ------------------------------ From: "Simon Shuker" Subject: RE: bosuns chair WAS harnesses Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 18:06:09 +0400 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <20050513140652.434C0580D [at] mail05.powweb.com> I British rigger friend of mine swears by Troll harnesses. He also said that they should only be used for 5 years from manufacture even if they have never been used -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Sunil Rajan Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 6:00 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: bosuns chair WAS harnesses For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- On May 13, 2005, at 6:00 AM, Stagecraft wrote: > Subject: Re: bosuns chair WAS harnesses > Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 10:05:38 -0400 > > I have an older Petzl bod harness. Not sure what the changes are in > the V2. > I have always been pretty happy with it, but it has seen alot more use > for caving and climbing than theatre. So, unless I really mess up, I'm > not hanging for extended periods of time. For the $50 I paid ten-ish > years ago, it has been a good investment. I'll second the Petzl stuff. I own one (maybe another one by this summer), and it was flat out one of the most comfortable sit harnesses I tried on. I don't know if it has an OSHA rating (anyone?), but has been a total workhorse (especially doing high-steel IA calls on arena/stadium shows), and was cheaper than most "safety" harnesses that are unpadded nylon webbing. Cheers, Sunil Rajan Freelance Audio Mercenary ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <81689FC6-C3B8-11D9-A612-000A95BD64AC [at] earthlink.net> From: Sunil Rajan Subject: Re: [OT] Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:08:39 -0400 On May 13, 2005, at 6:00 AM, Stagecraft wrote: > A speleologer (sp) is on this list !! How many other cavers are > willing to come out from under the rock ? > > Eddie > -- > -------------------- > Eddie Kramer IATSE #1 Member NEC Panel 15 I'm not claustrophobic in the least, but something about spelunking really weirds me out... Give me wide open spaces, I beams, and some rope! Although, I think caving/tunneling in Manhattan would be pretty neat, exploring within the bedrock. Cheers, Sunil Rajan Freelance Audio Mercenary ------------------------------ From: "Tony Deeming" Subject: Manhattan Caving.... Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 15:27:34 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I'm not claustrophobic in the least, but something about spelunking really weirds me out... Give me wide open spaces, I beams, and some rope! Although, I think caving/tunneling in Manhattan would be pretty neat, exploring within the bedrock. Cheers, Sunil Rajan Freelance Audio Mercenary Not having ever been to Manhattan, but surely caving in New York is also called 'Taking the subway'.....?? 8-)))) Ynot ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:33:02 -0400 From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Subject: Re: [OT] NYC was Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses Message-ID: <65C86611.257A2527.007B9F2A [at] aol.com> <> I thought thats what you did when you ride the subway...??? Oh my, perhaps I should stay in WI. MANY thanks to the dozen of you who've repied off list with tips/hints/etc. I didn't realize I had so many "friends" in the area. You guys ROCK even more than Cleveland. ;) Kristi ------------------------------ Message-ID: <90d9c99805051307336336ba25 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:33:22 -0400 From: Scott Parker Reply-To: Scott Parker Subject: Student designers for faculty directed productions... Greetings All, I'm working on getting a couple of directors to accept student designers for their dept. produced productions. They fear sub-par design, less then "professional" results, and a few more un-spoken thoughts. I would like to put together anecdotal evidence to present to these, relatively new to academia, directors. What are your school/dept. policies on student designer/tech involvement at the creative/supervisory level? During our meetings, I point out that:=20 1) the students are why we're here,=20 2) the student designers will be mentored by the same faculty designer that would have designed for them in the first place, 3) only students who have shown the skills required, via the student level productions, to create a design suitable for the chosen production will be used, 4) the student actors get to work with a faculty director; shouldn't the student designer get the same level? 5) did I mention that the students are why we're here? 6) Design/tech students must be given the same level of opportunity to build a portfolio at the dept. production level. 7) the directors all put the entire production in the hands of student stage managers to run. Why the resistance to do all that pre-planning design work, weeks before the show, with students? Thanks, Scott Scott C. Parker Professor/Technical Director Dept. of Performing Arts Dyson College of Arts and Sciences [at] Pace University Office/shipping: 41 Park Row, 1205F Mailing: 1 Pace Plaza=20 New York, NY 10038 212-346-1423 Fax: 914-989-8425 ------------------------------ From: "Karl G. Ruling" Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:38:20 -0400 Subject: Draft Fire Safety Curtain standard comment deadline Reply-to: kruling [at] esta.org Message-ID: <4284839C.9222.3E0169 [at] localhost> I want to thank Peter Scheu for noting the public review of BSR E1.22, the draft fire safety curtain standard. Peter, Bill Conner, and a lot of other people who read and contribute to this mailing list have worked hard on it, but we need the wider entertainment technology community, more people than could fit into any of our meeting rooms, to look at it and tell us if it is okay, and, if not, what needs to be fixed and how. Please note that the public review only runs until the end of the day GMT on July 19. The ESTA website shows an ending date of July 20, because as soon as July 20 starts, the public review ends. At midnight GMT, the links to the public review materials will disappear. Please also note that the ESTA website works on Greenwich time (Greenwich, England, not Connecticut). I write "Greenwich time" because it does switch back and forth between standard and daylight- saving time, just as the customary time does in Greenwich, England, so it's not really UTC. Best regards, Karl G. Ruling Technical Standards Manager ESTA 875 Sixth Avenue, Suite 1005 New York, NY 10001 +1-212-244-1505 Fax +1-212-244-1502 ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:38:44 -0400 From: Delbert Hall Reply-To: Delbert Hall Subject: Re: Las Vegas things to see - In-Reply-To: References: For a number of years the Johnson City (Tennessee) Symphony Orchestra held a late summer concert near the dam on Boone Lake. This was a free concert where families would come and picnic on the ground in front of a stage set up for the symphony. It was very popular. The JC Symphony referred to this concert as the "Concert at the Dam," but most people in town referred to it as "the dam concert," which angered the symphony. They have not had a dam concert in several years now. Too bad. -Delbert --=20 Delbert Hall Phone: 423-773-4255 > National Lampoon thinks Dam Tours are funny too... "Vegas Vacation" > "This is the dam tour. I'll be your dam tourguide. Does anyone have any > dam questions?" > "Yeah, where can I get som dam bait?" ------------------------------ From: "Jim at TheatreWireless.com" Subject: test Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:39:55 -0400 Message-Id: <20050513143957.XNGF27737.tomts40-srv.bellnexxia.net [at] p3m866> test ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:46:42 -0400 From: Jonathan Wills Reply-To: Jonathan Wills Subject: Re: [OT] Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses In-Reply-To: References: I must say being a caver in Southeast TN, that it is not that bad. I have seen some incredible underground waterfalls, and other beautiful sites. I am hoping to be able to do a cave near here in the next couple of years that is as deep as the Empire State Building is tall. That will be a great decent. The worst thing about caving is having to come back to the surface after a day in the cave with the cool air. Jonathan Wills Wills Lighting and Stage www.WillsLighting.com Toll Free 866.909.4557 Local 423.559.0606 Fax 423.559.0071 ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Student designers for faculty directed productions... Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:47:08 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Brown, Doug" Cc: scparker [at] gmail.com (Scott Parker) Here at NCSA ALL productions are student designed - with close faculty = supervision - after all the students are why we are here - they are the = "product" we are creating - and to be honest we see some incredible = design work - and some that is not perfect -but the students learn from = both- and that is why they are here good luck with your director education doug Doug Brown Technical Faculty=20 North Carolina School of the Arts School of Design & Production -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Scott Parker Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 10:33 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Student designers for faculty directed productions... ----------------------------------------------=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content and is believed to be clean. ---------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:47:10 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... Message-id: <4284BDEE.CEAB485B [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: Scott Parker wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > > Greetings All, > I'm working on getting a couple of directors to accept student > designers for their dept. produced productions. They fear sub-par > design, less then "professional" results, and a few more un-spoken > thoughts. Well, at Ithaca, the theory is that if a student can fill a production role (design, tech, management, what-have-you) then that's what we do. The students are here to learn about the business, and theatrical design is not something you can learn exclusively from books. We do six shows a year here, and of the 24 design slots that offers, students fill 15-20 depending on the pool of talent we have available. Students work up the ladder, with a scenic designer serving as a Design assistant, Prop Master and/or Charge artist before their first design. The first "solo" design assignment will usually be a smaller scale show -- either a box set in the proscenium theatre or full-round configuration in the arena theatre. One some level, your directors are correct. A student's first design will be less than "professional." Drawings will be late and/or incomplete. They won't be able to fully articulate their ideas to the director. But that's all part of the teaching process. Maybe you could try a little ego-stroking with the directing faculty and tell them how important their guidance can be to a new designer. It's certainly true, there's a world of difference between a paper project you pull out of your head and sitting down with a director and three other designers and creating a collaborative vision. Steve Litterst -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <175f01c557cc$7fa0d9c0$a174fea9 [at] Nigellaptop> From: "Nigel Worsley" Cc: kruling [at] esta.org References: Subject: Re: Draft Fire Safety Curtain standard comment deadline Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 16:00:25 +0100 Karl G. Ruling wrote: > Please also note that the ESTA website works on Greenwich time > (Greenwich, England, not Connecticut). I write "Greenwich time" > because it does switch back and forth between standard and daylight- > saving time, just as the customary time does in Greenwich, England, > so it's not really UTC. No, the whole point about GMT is that it DOESN'T change in the summer. For most purposes GMT and UTC are identical, but they are defined differently. For BST, the length of a day is defined by the rotation of the earth, and then divided down into hours, minutes and seconds. For UTC the second is defined with reference to atomic clocks, and due to slight changes in the earth's rotation leap seconds have to be inserted occasionally to bring things back into line. Totally irrelevant to most people, but important for GPS, which doesn't implement leap seconds and therefore has drifted away from UTC since the system was designed. The satellites transmit the offset ( currently 13 seconds, I believe ) so that receivers can display UTC. That is more than OT enough, I will shut up now! Nigel Worsley ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4284C239.636CA6E5 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 11:05:29 -0400 From: Dale Farmer Organization: The fuzz in the back of the fridge. Subject: Re: [OT] Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses References: Jonathan Wills wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I must say being a caver in Southeast TN, that it is not that bad. I > have seen some incredible underground waterfalls, and other beautiful > sites. I am hoping to be able to do a cave near here in the next > couple of years that is as deep as the Empire State Building is tall. > That will be a great decent. > > The worst thing about caving is having to come back to the surface > after a day in the cave with the cool air. Not a caver, but I did for a while do what is called urban caving, exploring old tunnels and what not. Old forts, train and subway tunnels, etc. There is a fascinating site out there full of pictures some guys took exploring an old minuteman missile base, unfortunately I've forgotten the link. Lot of stuff left over from the cold war and before. --Dale ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <0a779b9146f37008d4b44e0e7fd94a4f [at] email.arizona.edu> Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien) From: Mark O'Brien Subject: Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:14:24 -0700 I agree with all that has been brought up. That being said, as long as it is safe, and no one gets hurt, It is only a school play... (ducking) I think that the student is the product, and now is the time to be allowed to make mistakes. One cannot learn from watching someone design. Mark O'Brien Opera Technical Director University of Arizona, School of Music Tucson, AZ 520/621-7025 520/591-1803 Mobile On May 13, 2005, at 7:47 AM, Stephen Litterst wrote: > Scott Parker wrote: ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Manhattan Caving.... Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 11:30:02 -0400 Message-ID: <000201c557d0$a4a6dc20$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > Although, I think caving/tunneling in > Manhattan would be pretty neat, exploring within the bedrock. Does the Lincoln Tunnel count? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3034.64.28.53.129.1115997911.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... From: "Bill Nelson" Cc: scparker [at] gmail.com (Scott Parker) > I'm working on getting a couple of directors to accept student > designers for their dept. produced productions. They fear sub-par > design, less then "professional" results, and a few more un-spoken > thoughts. I have seen some pretty lousy "professional" designs in college department productions. Many others have been pretty blah, no risk taking or innovation. I am sure you have all seen them, something a Lighting 101 student could have designed, just executed a bit better. I know one designer that sticks to McCandless and, unfortunately, he also teaches his students that the McCandless method is the only one to use. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3045.64.28.53.129.1115998718.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:38:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... From: "Bill Nelson" > (ducking) I think that the student is the product, and now is the time > to be allowed to make mistakes. One cannot learn from watching someone > design. I would modify that statement a bit. A person can learn by watching, but not learn enough. The hardest part seems to be learning to work with the rest of the production staff to build a cohesive vision. The second hardest part seems to be to get the director to trust the designers enough to not interfere once that vision is established. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 11:49:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [OT] Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > I am hoping to be able to do a cave near here in the next > couple of years that is as deep as the Empire State Building is tall. > That will be a great decent. Sounds like a Decent Descent! Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 11:50:34 -0400 From: Kevin Lee Allen Subject: Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... In-reply-to: Message-id: References: I particularly agree with #1 and #5. That said, and I don't this argument will help, but where better for a=20= student to learn by his or her mistakes than in the supportive=20 environment of their university community. I am not an educator, but I have recently had the opportunity to work=20 with the university from which I graduated. At the time I went to=20 school the (then) faculty were not willing to let students design. This=20= was a detriment to the program. Those that were truly interested and=20 dedicated had to find other venues to work, leaving others to do the=20 department work, without the 'wisdom' of the older students. I think=20 any educator will agree that the Juniors and the Seniors help teach the=20= Freshmen and Sophomores. My experience visiting my old school was more than terrific. I had an=20 undergraduate assistant who has since designed for the university main=20= stage. The other designers I worked with were all students and each=20 performed admirably. One treat was the look of shock on the student=20 sound designer's face when I had a suggestion for her design. I went to=20= her, rather than the director and let her decide if she liked the idea=20= and then take it to the director. This particular student, the sound designer, has since lit several=20 productions that I have seen. It has been fascinating for someone=20 outside of an educational community to watch that work grow. To reinforce #6 on your list, if you are sending students out into a=20 world where you hope they will work, ideally enhancing the reputation=20 of the program, they need executed designs in their portfolios, not=20 just sketches, models and cue sheets. I assume that executed work will=20= also help with graduate school admissions. Do you have student TD's? BTW, I think students should DIRECT, as well. On May 13, 2005, at 10:33 AM, Scott Parker wrote: > During our meetings, I point out that: > 1) the students are why we're here, > 2) the student designers will be mentored by the same faculty designer > that would have designed for them in the first place, > 3) only students who have shown the skills required, via the student > level productions, to create a design suitable for the chosen > production will be used, > 4) the student actors get to work with a faculty director; shouldn't > the student designer get the same level? > 5) did I mention that the students are why we're here? > 6) Design/tech students must be given the same level of opportunity to > build a portfolio at the dept. production level. > 7) the directors all put the entire production in the hands of student > stage managers to run. Why the resistance to do all that pre-planning > design work, weeks before the show, with students? ----- Kevin Lee Allen Production Designer http://www.klad.com 973.744.6352.voice 201.280.3841.mobile klad [at] klad.com =F0 ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Student designers for faculty directed productions... Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 11:51:55 -0400 Message-ID: <000801c557d3$b374cf20$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > I know one designer > that sticks to McCandless and, unfortunately, he also teaches > his students that the McCandless method is the only one to use. Well, I think that these days many people ignore McCandless when they shouldn't, but whenever I'm teaching I always pointout to my students that McCandless entitled his book "*A* Method of Lighting the Stage". ------------------------------ Message-ID: <58f67b0f050513085636b3c320 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 11:56:23 -0400 From: Michael Powers Reply-To: Michael Powers Subject: g-mail test post ignore In-Reply-To: References: g-mail test post Michael Michael Powers 413-863-4376 home 413-522-3036 cell ------------------------------ From: "Karl G. Ruling" Cc: nigle [at] dsl.pipex.com (Nigel Worsley) Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 12:01:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Draft Fire Safety Curtain standard comment deadline Reply-to: kruling [at] esta.org Message-ID: <4284971F.5485.8A3B06 [at] localhost> In-reply-to: <175f01c557cc$7fa0d9c0$a174fea9 [at] Nigellaptop> > Karl G. Ruling wrote: > > Please also note that the ESTA website works on Greenwich time > > (Greenwich, England, not Connecticut). I write "Greenwich time" > > because it does switch back and forth between standard and daylight- > > saving time, just as the customary time does in Greenwich, England, > > so it's not really UTC. > > No, the whole point about GMT is that it DOESN'T change in the summer. > For most purposes GMT and UTC are identical, but they are defined > differently. Thank you for the explanation of GMT and UTC. However the time is labeled, our website server time is the same time as that used customarily by people in Greenwich, England. Right now the server is running on European summer time, one hour ahead of UTC. In the winter it will be running on standard time, the same as UTC. This setting of the server time means that for people in London, England, the links to the BSR E1.22 files will disappear at the end of the day, as July 19 becomes July 20 by their watches. For people in London, Ontario and New London, Connecticut, the links will disappear at 7:00 at night local time on July 19th. For people in London, California, the links will disappear at 4:00 local time in the afternoon on the 19th. People in Paris, France will have a little more time. For them the links won't disappear until 1:00 in the morning on the 20th, local time. However, folks in Paris, Texas will only have until 6:00 in the evening local time on July 19th. Before anyone suggests that we reset the server time to the time in his or her favorite time zone, let me explain that the server is located in Texas but is owned by a British company, so it runs on the British company's time zone setting. Best regards, Karl G. Ruling Technical Standards Manager ESTA 875 Sixth Avenue, Suite 1005 New York, NY 10001 +1-212-244-1505 Fax +1-212-244-1502 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050513095112.03d90b98 [at] localhost> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:54:38 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: eDrawings software I received this message on another mailing list. It looks like it could be of use when you have several people working on a design (be it for a show or the whole building). It's free if you have AutoCAD and several other CAD packages. They make their money selling the Pro version. I have not used this, so don't know how well it works. >eDrawings(TM) is the first FREE publishing and viewing software that >makes sharing product design data dramatically easier across multiple >CAD environments. > >Bring product concepts to life with interactive eDrawings files that allow >others to interpret and understand your designs more effectively. Download >the free eDrawings software and start collaborating more easily and >effectively >with everyone in your extended product development team. > >http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050428A1 ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ From: "Jim at TheatreWireless.com" Subject: RE: eDrawings software Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 13:07:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <20050513170746.UJHU16985.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net [at] p3m866> > >eDrawings(TM) is the first FREE publishing and viewing software that I've been working with a chassis vendor (www.protocase.com) that sends me eDrawing proofs of everything for sign-off -- a live 3D model of my product. I can rotate, zoom, and check measurements, all in a browser plug-in. I love it. My prototypes and custom work come out as polished as my production stuff! Jim www.theatrewireless.com ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Student designers for faculty directed productions... Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 13:28:20 -0400 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0196C816 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" Cc: scparker [at] gmail.com (Scott Parker) Anecdotal evidence, huh? Well, here's a selection of stories and observations normally reserved for after-hours round table (read: bar table) discussion... --You could try the reductio ad absurdum (sp?) approach. Having faculty directors mandate "professional-quality" productions in an academic setting is practically impossible in most institutions, because there is no way student labor can achieve the quality of results that a fully-professional crew is capable of. You want professional? Hire some pro stitchers, carps, skweeks, and squints. Have the students watch them instead of actually building the show. (I've come thiiiiiiis close to using this one personally before...hehe.) --Way back when (but not so long ago that any of the principals have shuffled off this mortal coil), when I first entered college, my institution had never had students design mainstage shows. There had been a system in place whereby all the directing students would, for their class project, direct a fully-realized one-act which would then be performed as part of a weekend of short plays; aspiring designers would only have these to practice with. The year I arrived was also the first year of the faculty designer who became my mentor; he insisted on providing opportunities for well-qualified students with interest in design as a profession to practice on the mainstage. I was the primary beneficiary of this...and became the second student LD (the first was two years ahead of me, so he got dibs), first student set designer, and first student (assistant) costume designer in the department's history. Yes, I then took that experience while I was still pre-graduation and did other outside work; but allowing me the chances to try things out and trust me and my abilities enough was a great confidence-builder. More importantly, it fostered a sense of loyalty...even when working outside jobs, what happened there came first in my list of priorities as much as possible. --It seems ridiculous to me that an institution would put so much emphasis on teaching and training student designers, yet turn around and tell them "yes, you got A's in all your coursework for design, and your projects show great promise...but you're still not good enough for us to let you do a mainstage show here." What does that tell your students--about themselves, about your own confidence in yourself and capabilities to teach them adequately, about your ego? (N.B. Use of the second person "your" here is not meant to be taken directly as anything other than a hypothetical question...) --OTOH it is vitally important that the students who are given this opportunity aren't those who are taking the classes just for credit or just for a theatre degree. The number of opportunities are limited, and need to go to those who have expressed interest in this as a profession. The amount of work involved is also not to be taken lightly, nor imposed upon those who may be more likely to bail when they begin to feel overwhelmed (without the balancing effect provided by their ambitions in the field to begin with). --One of the issues that may eventually come up is the school's definition of release time, and how that affects the number of potential design opportunities that don't *have* to be performed by faculty without a consummate increase in formal teaching load. --IMHO the core issue or root of the problem isn't the desire to have a professional design. It's actually two-fold: directors' egos (why does s/he get a faculty designer and I don't?) and the oft-bemoaned gulf between the focus (and prestige) bestowed upon acties and techies. If your institution is one that views student crews as primarily free labor, and student design courses merely an attractive adjunct to draw more students into the labor pool (or satisfy the requirements for offereing a theatre degree in the first place), then you're most likely tilting at windmills--the plays exist to showcase the "talent". If the design/tech aspects of the program, as far as teaching is concerned, really have the same emphasis placed upon them as acting and history, then (once you get past the ego part) this should be a slam dunk. Okay, who's buying the next round? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4943.129.252.241.105.1116005526.squirrel [at] webmail.columbia.sc> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 13:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Student designers From: usctd [at] columbia.sc I assume this is a BA/BFA program? Remind the Directors that this is a collaborative process. It's not like the students will run rampant and design something completely out of context with the proper supervision and guidance.(Although I am sure we have all seen this happen with professional designers!) Stress the fact that designs will have to be approved by the director and appropriate design/tech faculty. You could be more "subversive" and say that the students will co-design with design faculty. Also mention that for these students to further their carreer, it would help to have a few realized designs in their portfolio. You may see an increase in the quality of the students and their work if they have the opportunity to design mainstage. Should you mention that you're there because of the students? PS: Scott, is that lighting paper trick you presented at USITT available online at all? I thought that was too cool. -- Eric Rouse TD-University of SC, Columbia Freelance Foyboy ------------------------------ Subject: Re: non skid platforms Message-ID: From: Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:37:32 -0400 Dale Farmer suggested air casters. They've been used to move the heaviest equipment ever moved on land BUT.... you have to have an absolutely smooth surface or they will make you old and crazy before your time. If there are cracks or the deck is uneven keep away from them. They're not too noisy but they do make a whooshing sound so if you're moving in a B.O. you may want cover music. Marty Petlock Technical Facilities Manager Van Wezel P.A.H. Sarasota, FL. ********** E-mail messages sent or received by City of Sarasota officials and employees in connection with official City business are public records subject to disclosure under the Florida Public Records Act. ********** ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:39:43 -0400 From: "David Bowman" Subject: Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... Hey gang, Wow! What a fabulous topic. We have been having the same discussions here at Syracuse, so if folks have replied to Scott off-list, I would appreciate any of those comments. We're in a similar boat here, except: 1. Students do design on the Drama mainstage whenever possible. 2. We "complicate" the issue because the shows are built by the Syracuse Stage professional staff. The big advantage is student designers have the opportunity to work with a professional shop in realizing their designs. We hold students to the same "rules" as the "pros" so when they leave here, they have an understanding of what they may have to deal with when they get out there. Sadly, some of the students are better at adhering to the "rules" than some of the "pros." By "rules" I don't mean principals of design. I mean deadlines, essential elements of a design package, etc..... The big disadvantage is that some (many) of our faculty directors take this to mean they should get "professional" results. While the quality of what is created is usually better AND because it's a pro shop, they can turn out more quantity in the time allowed - it's still a student (read: still learning) design. We don't change a student's design to "make it better/more professional" just as we wouldn't change a "pros" design. Frequently our faculty directors forget that..... I'll step back now to take in more of the discussion... If no one minds, I plan on sharing this with my fellow shop heads here...... There has to be a better way to get this through their heads than with a BIG stick (the line is already forming - did someone say pinata?!?) Thanks..... dave B. David M. Bowman Syracuse Stage / SU Drama Master Electrician / Adj. Professor dmbowman [at] syr.edu Dolor Temporarius... Gloria Aeterna.... Cicatrices Virgines Placent! ------------------------------ Message-ID: <12488147.1116009676128.JavaMail.davidfitwe [at] mac.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 11:41:16 -0700 From: David Wetmore Subject: Thomas 9 lite parts Does anyone have a list of parts for Thomas 9 lites. I need to know what the part numbers are for the ceramic connectors inside the bottom of the light. David Wetmore Voyager of the Seas RCCL ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1964cf3b05051312142252ae37 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 15:14:00 -0400 From: David Carrico Reply-To: David Carrico Subject: Re: Manhattan Caving.... In-Reply-To: References: Is that what the kids are calling it these days?? Dave >=20 > Not having ever been to Manhattan, but surely caving in New York is also > called 'Taking the subway'.....?? > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:09:41 -1000 From: "Paul Guncheon" Subject: RE: Grand Piano Frame Message-id: <005101c557f7$b3530bf0$0202a8c0 [at] yourxhtr8hvc4p> References: <> Or just cut them from a position in which the strings cannot reach you... think "dog on a chain". Not sure why not seeing the key board makes the piano easier to build. I guess not having to build keys is less work but having to make them wouldn't be a deal breaker. If they have to function, consider a pad of foam furred under them to give the spring needed. I've gutted a couple of pianos and wonder if here is any part of them that is not heavy. I used a brace (hand drill ala (brace and bit") to remove the string tensioning pins after I almost burnt out my Milwaukee drill(!). Laters, Paul "Dat's de end of April," said Tom in dismay. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:19:43 -1000 From: "Paul Guncheon" Subject: Re: non skid platforms Message-id: <005501c557f9$1a81e200$0202a8c0 [at] yourxhtr8hvc4p> References: <> Try some of the material one puts under area rugs to prevent them from slipping... available at rug stores and home centers. It's not very expensive unless you buy it in the tool section where it is sold as a non slip surface for routing small items. It will need to be replaced from time to time, methinks. Laters, Paul "I'm a great opera singer," said Tom, being callous. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000501c557fd$6844aa00$6501a8c0 [at] D4D3R151> From: "Randy Whitcomb" Subject: Re: Student Designers Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:50:32 -0600 One argument (from list responses) is that NCSA and Ithaca College (and I'm sure many other quality programs) use student designers. How about "Certainly you folks have done such a good job teaching these students that they're bound to do a good job." Or; "If you won't trust our students to design a show why should strangers hire them once they leave here?" I'm sure the acting and directing faculty would prefer to use Equity actors to ensure a professional product, but the fact remains; these are college productions, they should use, and reflect the quality of, the students in all areas of the production. Randy Whitcomb, TD Price Civic Aud. Loveland, CO. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <90d9c99805051318442be315cd [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 21:44:44 -0400 From: Scott Parker Reply-To: Scott Parker Subject: Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... In-Reply-To: <90d9c99805051307336336ba25 [at] mail.gmail.com> References: <90d9c99805051307336336ba25 [at] mail.gmail.com> A few more "reasons" for the director's resistance. They invite local casting agents to see their shows and want the best design they can get. I agree with all of you that have pointed out that the best design is still being built by student crews. Not to mention the fact that the program is still in the development stage and the quality of my labor pool is very limited. The directors seem to invite some people to see their own work to build their reputation. Granted, this does serve the institution to a degree in that word of good work will reflect highly on graduates. However, I don't by that argument with regards to the design.... Currently, we do six faculty directed shows per year. Three in each semester. One of those in each semester is done on our mainstage and the other two are in a mid sized blackbox. Additionally, the students then get time in the blackbox for student directed shows. These shows are all students for all positions. During my last faculty meeting, I did get them to start considering a student designer who has done a few of these director workshops. During the meeting, I stressed the point that we will lose these students to other schools. In fact, as the design/tech advisor, I wouldn't hesitate to advise them to transfer if I can't get the directors to see my point. Not to mention my own career choices. Thanks for all the notes and support so far. Keep it coming. I'm going to create an edited collection for some form of presentation. Take care, Scott Scott C. Parker Professor/Technical Director Dept. of Performing Arts Dyson College of Arts and Sciences [at] Pace University Office/shipping: 41 Park Row, 1205F Mailing: 1 Pace Plaza=20 New York, NY 10038 212-346-1423 Fax: 914-989-8425 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 22:17:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Las Vegas things to see - WARNING e-mail clogging, off topic > post From: "C. Dopher" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Steve Larson wrote: > Don't miss Red Rock Canyon. The desert is absolutely > smashing this year due to all the rain. I was out > there a couple of weeks ago and the desert flowers > are unbelievable. Not that far over to Death Valley. > If you haven't been to Lake Mead and Hoover Dam, > they are worth it, especially the dam tour. And all of that *most especially* from the saddle of nice, shiny, American-branded motorized, electrified velocipede. http://tinyurl.com/8az6u Of course, you might then be tempted to contribute to Mr. Sapsis' mobilized, dignified enterprise: http://www.sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ...or perhaps even to join him next time round! Cris Dopher ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42857249.4020100 [at] fuse.net> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 23:36:41 -0400 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Re: [OT] Caving WAS bosuns chair WAS harnesses References: In-Reply-To: Bruce Purdy wrote: >>I am hoping to be able to do a cave near here in the next >>couple of years that is as deep as the Empire State Building is tall. >>That will be a great decent. > > > Sounds like a Decent Descent! > Let me guess, the return to the surface does not involve an elevator or a gentle slope, right? Probably using ascenders and chinning your way up that same rope you zipped down at the beginning? Please bring back pictures to share with those of us who can't imagine doing 1000 chin-ups in a single afternoon. Stuart ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3305.64.28.52.154.1116056879.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 00:47:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Thomas 9 lite parts From: "Bill Nelson" > Does anyone have a list of parts for Thomas 9 lites. I need to know what > the part numbers are for the ceramic connectors inside the bottom of the > light. Is that a PAR can? You might try http://www.jamesthomas.co.uk/mainframe.htm They may be the manufacturer. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3319.64.28.52.154.1116058829.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: <90d9c99805051307336336ba25 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 01:20:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Student designers for faculty directed productions... From: "Bill Nelson" Cc: scparker [at] gmail.com (Scott Parker) > A few more "reasons" for the director's resistance. > > They invite local casting agents to see their shows and want the best > design they can get. And they think the casting agents are too dumb to understand that students may have performed all the tech jobs? The casting agents are there to evaluate the abilities of the cast members. They are not interested in the lighting aspects. By the same token, they may disregard blocking problems - again, those are relatively unimportant in regards to acting talent. Of course, how well the cast shows partly depends on the director. It is the director's job to see that each actor/actress performs to the best of their abilities in the role. > The directors seem to invite some people to see their own work to > build their reputation. Granted, this does serve the institution to a > degree in that word of good work will reflect highly on graduates. > However, I don't by that argument with regards to the design.... A staff director should not have to "build their reputation", they should have brought it to the school with them. If staff directors are also teaching positions, then I think it would reflect more on the quality of the institution if they are capable of guiding student directors into producing high quality productions. > Currently, we do six faculty directed shows per year. Three in each > semester. One of those in each semester is done on our mainstage and > the other two are in a mid sized blackbox. Additionally, the students > then get time in the blackbox for student directed shows. These shows > are all students for all positions. During my last faculty meeting, I > did get them to start considering a student designer who has done a > few of these director workshops. > During the meeting, I stressed the point that we will lose these > students to other schools. In fact, as the design/tech advisor, I > wouldn't hesitate to advise them to transfer if I can't get the > directors to see my point. Not to mention my own career choices. Why so few productions on the main stage? That seems to be serious underutilisation of an expensive facility. One thing that is not taught in many college theatre classes is the urgency and rush that is frequently associated with shows in the commercial world. You might be getting a bit of that with the black box, if enough shows are produced every semester. Bill ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #396 *****************************