Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 22589892; Wed, 25 May 2005 03:01:11 -0700 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #407 Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 03:00:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on prxy.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.6 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #407 1. Re: Student designers by "C. Dopher" 2. Re: Student designers by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 3. Re: Student designers by Pat Kight 4. Re: Student designers by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 5. Re: automatic fly systems by 6. Job posting Scene Designer/TD by Kasey Allee-Foreman 7. Re: automatic fly systems by "Scheu Consulting Services" 8. French speaker/translator needed. by Herrick Goldman 9. Re: Student designers by Greg Bierly 10. Re: automatic fly systems by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 11. Re: automatic fly systems by MissWisc [at] aol.com 12. parachutes by "Maurice Moe Conn" 13. Re: parachutes by "Jared Clarkin" 14. Re: parachutes by "Jared Clarkin" 15. Re: Student designers by "Bill Nelson" 16. Making vinyl records by "Matthew Breton" 17. Re: Making vinyl records by Bruce Purdy 18. Re: Making vinyl records by MissWisc [at] aol.com 19. Re: Making vinyl records by MissWisc [at] aol.com 20. Re: Making vinyl records by Greg Bierly 21. Re: Making vinyl records by "Tom Heemskerk" 22. Re: Making vinyl records by Bruce Purdy 23. Re: Making vinyl records by "Don Taco" 24. Re: Making vinyl records by 25. Re: Making vinyl records by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 26. "Prop" Trees by "Scheu Consulting Services" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 07:52:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Student designers From: "C. Dopher" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Charles wrote: > If one > of the concerns for not letting students design the shows is the potential > lack of quality, then why not make it a competition. I have friends in > various BFA programs where the faculty design the shows early in the > semester. The final show of the semester is "up for grabs". Students > interested in designing must submit their designs. The faculty then pick > the design they like best. (Or the design that is most workable, with > revision.) To what extent must the design be visualized to enter the "competition"? Sketches? White model? Full color model and drafting? I'd be reluctant to put myself (if I were a student) in that situation, because that situation is called "scenic design class". If we're going after a real design opportunity then perhaps the DIRECTOR should be the one doing the picking and the designer is chosen based on his CONCEPT and previous class design efforts (a.k.a. his PORTFOLIO). Hm...seems I've come across this model of choosing designers before... Though you hated to bring the topic back up, Charles, I hate to respond to it, but have to since this is precisely what happened to me 10 years ago. It so happened I scored the scenic design, but it still wasn't a good/fair/right process for choosing the designer. The director did have input in the final choice...and I cheated: I sought out the director beforehand and solicited his opinion on a couple of my ideas, then drew up the one he and I responded to the best. I'd do it again, of course. Cris Dopher, LD ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Student designers Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 08:04:09 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c56058$c0d23f80$6601a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > I cheated: I sought out the director > beforehand and solicited his opinion on a couple of my ideas, > then drew up the one he and I responded to the best. I'd do > it again, of course. ...Which is, of course, another valuable "real life" training exercise. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42933578.30805 [at] peak.org> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 07:08:56 -0700 From: Pat Kight Subject: Re: Student designers References: In-Reply-To: Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote: >>I cheated: I sought out the director >>beforehand and solicited his opinion on a couple of my ideas, >>then drew up the one he and I responded to the best. I'd do >>it again, of course. > ...Which is, of course, another valuable "real life" training exercise. My thought exactly. I wouldn't call this cheating, I'd call it an enterprising and professional approach, and if I were the one doing the grading, a student who took this approach would have a definite edge in the grading/competition over one who designed the set without any consultation. -- Pat Kight kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Student designers Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:24:07 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c5606c$420ba100$6601a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > if I were the one > doing the > grading, a student who took this approach would have a > definite edge in the > grading/competition over one who designed the set without any > consultation. Absolutely. Not only did it show initiative (which is one of the qualities that differentiate the people who want to make it from the people who actually *do* make it), but it showed an appreciation of theatre as a collaborative art form. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001601c56076$72bf6340$0200a8c0 [at] lpt> From: References: Subject: Re: automatic fly systems Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:37:07 -0500 Organization: Minnesota Ballet No. I've loaded into 4 theaters that had motorized battons, and a couple of those theaters several times. The shows went well, and I moved on to the next place. I just saw some limitations that I had to work around, and expressed them. With the system that Greg mentioned all my concerns were met, but I doubt I'll be seeing this system any time soon. Sounds expensive. What would be the cost difference in a traditional counterweight vrs the price of the motors and switch panel? I'm sure there are many variables. Can you say that one is cheaper than the other? Again, I don't know the costs. I'm just speaking as an end user. However, just because I might be in a High School or Middle School theater doesn't mean that my professional quality should be less. Sometimes I have to fix half the equipment if I want to use it. But it is my goal to give top quality performances regardless if I'm in a 2,400 seat high quality venue or some small town HS. I think this is the hardest part of my job, and yet can be the most rewarding. Besides, end user concerns are how product development improves. I think this topic was wonderful and I learned something to boot! Kenneth Pogin Production Manager Minnesota Ballet ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050524154252.38246.qmail [at] web51303.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 08:42:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Kasey Allee-Foreman Subject: Job posting Scene Designer/TD There is a staff position open at the University of Oklahoma for a Scene Designer/TD for the expanding Opera program. Please see the official posting at: http://webapps.ou.edu/Jobs/viewjobs.cfm?num=11035 We are looking to hire someone fairly quickly (for July 1st) and missed our deadline to get the ad into Artsearch. Please pass this on to anyone who might be interested. Thanks-- Kasey Allee-Foreman Opera Costume Designer University of Oklahoma klallee [at] ou.edu __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Scheu Consulting Services" Subject: RE: automatic fly systems Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 11:56:29 -0400 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: In-reply-to: Kenneth Pogin wrote: >Again, I don't know the costs.=20 A typical counterweight lineset (installed) will run $3,500 to $5,000 a = set. Drum style winches (properly designed) start at over $5,000 (which don't include blocks, cables, battens, etc.). Lineshafts $13- $15K. And none = of this includes the electrical infrastructure (conduits, wiring, power, = etc.) or installation. Clancy's PowerLift and Hoffend's Vortek systems also = fall within these ranges. Fancy, computerized control systems cost tens of thousands $$$'s and = up... Way up. All the above are "out of my butt" estimates, but should give you an = idea of how much more a motorized system is than manual counterweight. 3 to 5 = times as much. That's why you won't see manual counterweight sets disappearing anytime soon. Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 12:15:14 -0400 Subject: French speaker/translator needed. From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: Does anyone on this list speak fluent French? Preferably someone in the states so my phone bill doesn't get crazy. I need to translate a brief (4 paragraph) proposal into French and also have someone read a document to me and give me the gist of the guidelines for a festival I am working on. Please contact me off list. Thanks -Herrick -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: Student designers Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 12:33:40 -0400 >> I cheated: I sought out the director >> beforehand and > > ...Which is, of course, another valuable "real life" training exercise. Unless it was expressly forbidden in the "competition" I don't see it as cheating. Every participant could have gone to speak with the director beforehand. Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: automatic fly systems Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:58:36 -0700 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My reckoning and opinion, would be that if you, as you say, have to fix your own equipment, you are wandering, maybe even racing, into dangerous liability territory. If the system was installed by professionals such as we have on this web site, etc. etc. they are professionals, qualified we trust, insured, etc. But if you repair or renovate or adjust, you become the manufacturer and installer, and if, Lord help us, it does not occur, if some untoward incident were to occur there is the possibility you might be in hot water. Just an opinion. Dr. Doom -- Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. - www.riskit.com Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of productionmanager [at] minnesotaballet.org Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:37 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: automatic fly systems For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- No. I've loaded into 4 theaters that had motorized battons, and a couple of those theaters several times. The shows went well, and I moved on to the next place. I just saw some limitations that I had to work around, and expressed them. With the system that Greg mentioned all my concerns were met, but I doubt I'll be seeing this system any time soon. Sounds expensive. What would be the cost difference in a traditional counterweight vrs the price of the motors and switch panel? I'm sure there are many variables. Can you say that one is cheaper than the other? Again, I don't know the costs. I'm just speaking as an end user. However, just because I might be in a High School or Middle School theater doesn't mean that my professional quality should be less. Sometimes I have to fix half the equipment if I want to use it. But it is my goal to give top quality performances regardless if I'm in a 2,400 seat high quality venue or some small town HS. I think this is the hardest part of my job, and yet can be the most rewarding. Besides, end user concerns are how product development improves. I think this topic was wonderful and I learned something to boot! Kenneth Pogin Production Manager Minnesota Ballet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 13:58:38 -0400 From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Subject: Re: automatic fly systems Message-ID: <43681389.72F0D13F.007B9F2A [at] aol.com> Kenneth said: <> More evidence that many schools are installing or already have equipment that is beyond the needs and skills of the people using it. The standard single-purchase counterweight system is pretty easy to explain. Well, honestly it USED to be easy before schools started removing teter-totters from the playground. I use a pencil balanced on my finger to describe the basic movement. Then move to a small pully and finally take the kids to see a "real" theatre. Far too many schools are buying "state of the art" rathter than "what meet's the needs of 1) the students and 2) others who may use the facility. Where Kenneth is in the uneviable position of needing to make a profesional show work in what is often a less-than professional setting, that's part of the whole nature of touring. Lord bless all of you who do this on a daily basis. I'll still prefer that schools - high, middle or even college - only install what you can maintain and are willing to hire QUALIFIED employees to run. Kristi ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Maurice Moe Conn" Subject: parachutes Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 19:44:37 +0000 Hey ya'll, anyone got a good source for parachutes? I need/want a couple Desert Storm issue. The obvious is a Army Surplus, I know, but that requires a road trip to Knoxville, TN that is not really in the grand time plan. TIA Moe We're at it again: Check out www.sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html A Charity ride to help raise money for Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 15:47:10 -0400 From: "Jared Clarkin" Subject: Re: parachutes anyone got a good source for parachutes? =20 TIA Moe Check out this website. I just ordered two parachutes from them this = year. Good quality and quick turnaround. Jared Jared Clarkin Production Manager Actors Studio Drama School 212-229-5859 Ext. 2627 clarkinj [at] newschool.edu ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 15:47:50 -0400 From: "Jared Clarkin" Subject: Re: parachutes anyone got a good source for parachutes?=20 Moe And now here is the actual address: http://www.army-surplus.com/ss_store/index.html=20 Jared ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20020.69.59.200.119.1116973839.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 15:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Student designers From: "Bill Nelson" > Unless it was expressly forbidden in the "competition" I don't see it > as cheating. Every participant could have gone to speak with the > director beforehand. Make that "should have". How can a designer attempt to fulfill the director's vision if he/she has no idea what that vision may be? Now, if this is a contest to see how inventive a student lighting designer can be - and the director being willing to adapt to that vision, then this would not be as desireable. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Matthew Breton" Subject: Making vinyl records Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 19:58:45 -0400 The design for our current production of "The Buddy Holly Story" calls for a large (10-foot diameter) vinyl record platform. Making a circular platform isn't a problem. What concerns me is getting a glossy enough coating while still maintaining traction for the actors. Any suggestions? Matthew Breton Technical Director Seacoast Repertory Theater ======================== _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 20:12:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Making vinyl records From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > The design for our current production of "The Buddy Holly Story" calls for a > large (10-foot diameter) vinyl record platform. Making a circular platform > isn't a problem. What concerns me is getting a glossy enough coating while > still maintaining traction for the actors. The groves should provide traction - or weren't you planning to get that detailed? ;-) Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 20:19:02 EDT Subject: Re: Making vinyl records ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <11.45eb2092.2fc52097 [at] aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 20:28:07 EDT Subject: Re: Making vinyl records Sorry about the empty email! If someone is going to "design" an item, they should also give some suggestions for the implementation of that idea. If I design a wooden bowl, I'm not going to expect it to be made from glass, for example. If your dancers are wearing saddle shoes, traction may not be much of an issue. If they're wearing charactor shoes, it still may not be much of a problem unless you wax your vinyl - and if you do that then there are also the issues of how the lighting will reflect off the shiny black surface, what may be reflected in the surface, etc. SO go back to your designer and say "What did you have in mind when you came up with this idea? How did you picture this being made?" As cheap as old 33 1/3 records are now, you might even make a floor out of them! Kristi ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: Making vinyl records Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 21:19:49 -0400 > "The Buddy Holly Story" calls for a large (10-foot diameter) vinyl > record platform. Making a circular platform isn't a problem. I know you said the platform is not a problem but I have to add that we did similar platforms for a production of Bye Bye Birdie this spring. Thanks to the list I made them 11'6" so I could use stock 4'x8' platforms (8'x8' square) as the base and then cut out 4 rounded pieces out of two full sheets of 3/4". It was a very efficient design. Thanks to all that gave me great input. We didn't go for the glossy vinyl look. I once installed a gloss black dance floor in a theme park stage for a dance show. It would give you the look you are looking for with a danceable surface. Don't know if it would fit in your price range. Good luck ------------------------------ Message-ID: <61725.142.179.101.174.1116984281.squirrel [at] 142.179.101.174> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 18:24:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Making vinyl records From: "Tom Heemskerk" > > The groves should provide traction - or weren't you planning to get that > detailed? ;-) > Um, that would be one groove.... unless they're going to detail the B side! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 21:41:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Making vinyl records From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: >> The groves should provide traction - or weren't you planning to get that >> detailed? ;-) >> > Um, that would be one groove.... unless they're going to detail the B side! > Touche' Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <018e01c560d2$5ff9c410$e28aaa43 [at] DonTaco> From: "Don Taco" References: Subject: Re: Making vinyl records Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 19:35:02 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Purdy" >> The design for our current production of "The Buddy Holly Story" calls >> for a >> large (10-foot diameter) vinyl record platform. > > The groves should provide traction - or weren't you planning to get that > detailed? ;-) If you're going for that 'level' of realism, remember to tape a quarter to the tonearm. ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: Subject: RE: Making vinyl records Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 20:21:55 -0700 In-reply-to: Message-ID: Shellac (bully's eye perhaps)? We use it all the time, never any slipping, and we had a VERY steep racked stage, and it made cleanup easy (the shellac and the rake) -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Matthew Breton Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 4:59 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Making vinyl records For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- The design for our current production of "The Buddy Holly Story" calls for a large (10-foot diameter) vinyl record platform. Making a circular platform isn't a problem. What concerns me is getting a glossy enough coating while still maintaining traction for the actors. Any suggestions? Matthew Breton Technical Director Seacoast Repertory Theater ======================== _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Making vinyl records Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 01:18:48 -0400 Message-ID: <000201c560e9$3fcd6900$6601a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > > The groves should provide traction - or weren't you planning to get > > that detailed? ;-) > > > > Um, that would be one groove.... unless they're going to > detail the B side! ...Or unless it were a BBC sound effects disk. ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Scheu Consulting Services" Subject: "Prop" Trees Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 05:36:32 -0400 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: In-reply-to: I've had an inquiry as to where one might purchase LARGE "fake" trees, for use in a store display. When I say LARGE, this is their description: > 20 feet high - look like fully leaved out oaks - trunk diameter 12 inches at least. I know these would be expensive, as they must be pretty realistic. No "thirty foot rule" here. Any ideas or sources? Thanks in advance. Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #407 *****************************