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Subject: Stagecraft Digest #468
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For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Stagecraft Digest, Issue #468

 1. Re: dmx lengths
    by Jason Tollefson <jason [at] tollefsondesigns.com>
 2. Acoustically Transparent Projection Material
    by "David R. Krajec" <drkrajec [at] stritch.edu>
 3. Re: dmx lengths
    by "C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
 4. Re: dmx lengths
    by Dale Farmer <dale [at] cybercom.net>
 5. Re: dmx lengths
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
 6. Re: Vectorworks Questions
    by "C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
 7. Sanity check
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
 8. Re: Acoustically Transparent Projection Material
    by "Alf Sauve" <alf.sauve [at] mindspring.com>
 9. Re: stage floor mtls
    by Steven Hood <hoodnik77 [at] yahoo.com>
10. Re: best and worst things found...
    by Steven Hood <hoodnik77 [at] yahoo.com>
11. Free cadd,the catch....
    by Mark O'Brien <marko [at] email.arizona.edu>

*** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject
*** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to
*** one message subject in each reply.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-ID: <20050724155940.39146.qmail [at] web51004.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 08:59:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jason Tollefson <jason [at] tollefsondesigns.com>
Reply-To: jason [at] tollefsondesigns.com
Subject: Re: dmx lengths
In-Reply-To: <list-23852406 [at] prxy.net>

> > Well, well, I'm really surprised to hear that. In all the stadium shows 
> > I've done we have used splitters for anything over 100 m.


That will ensure that your signal is always as strong as possible.  However most DMX problems I've
experienced have been the result of poor connections, not cable length.  Shorter runs means more
breaks in the chain and more possibilities for failure.  I prefer to keep my runs as continuous as
possible.

Jason Tollefson
www.tollefsondesigns.com

------------------------------

From: "David R. Krajec" <drkrajec [at] stritch.edu>
Subject: Acoustically Transparent Projection Material
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 13:29:51 -0400
Message-ID: <JIEMJMFJPNIEFMCDLBDOKEEOCCAA.drkrajec [at] stritch.edu>
In-Reply-To: <list-23852406 [at] prxy.net>

Interesting discussion about acoustically transparent material.  I once
worked with an organist at a major university who insisted that the color of
the cloth in front of the organ pipes affected the quality of sound.  The
pipes were mounted on either side of the proscenium and we wanted a darker
color so it would not detract from the stage when we did musicals or operas.
I think we ended up with beige.
Go figure!

David K.



------------------------------

Date:	Sun, 24 Jul 2005 13:44:51 -0400
Subject: Re: dmx lengths
From:	"C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
Message-ID: <BF094BD3.1B9CB%brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
In-Reply-To: <007201c58f80$2a8c49b0$0e00a8c0 [at] Nigle>

On 7/23/05 8:15 AM, "Nigel Worsley" <nigle [at] dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> "Judy" <kupfer [at] post.tau.ac.il> wrote:
>>> 
>>> "Recommended Practice for DMX512" says 1km (3281') is the max.  The book =
>>> also says 500m (1640') is prudent for the maximum.  Use a splitter =
>>> beyond that. 
>>> 
>> Well, well, I'm really surprised to hear that. In all the stadium shows
>> I've done we have used splitters for anything over 100 m.
> 
> Sounds like overkill to me, but it won't do any harm and it gives you the
> confidence to know
> that everything is well within spec.
> 
> Using long runs of DMX is a bit like walking towards a cliff wearing a
> blindfold. When you stop,
> you don't know if the edge is a foot away or a few hundred, so most people
> stop after a short
> distance to be absolutely safe. The more adventurous walk a bit further, and
> the foolhardy wind
> up at the bottom of the cliff.
> 
> How far you bend the rules depends on the cost of doing it right versus the
> consequences of it
> going wrong. A big event can easily afford to chuck repeaters all over the
> place, as it is much
> cheaper than having everything fail during the show.
> 
> All the tests that I have done with RS485 have shown that the cliff edge is a
> lot further away
> than the specs say it is. I will keep on walking!

We're getting a lot of stories about people using long runs with no adverse
affects.  Has anybody actually come up against the barrier?  Used a long run
and got bitten in the ass?  It's those stories that will tell me where that
cliff edge really is.

Cris Dopher, LD


------------------------------

Message-ID: <42E3D590.F50B3FA [at] cybercom.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 13:53:20 -0400
From: Dale Farmer <dale [at] cybercom.net>
Organization: The  fuzz in the back of the fridge. 
Subject: Re: dmx lengths
References: <list-23857271 [at] prxy.net>



"C. Dopher" wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> On 7/23/05 8:15 AM, "Nigel Worsley" <nigle [at] dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>
> > "Judy" <kupfer [at] post.tau.ac.il> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> "Recommended Practice for DMX512" says 1km (3281') is the max.  The book =
> >>> also says 500m (1640') is prudent for the maximum.  Use a splitter =
> >>> beyond that.
> >>>
> >> Well, well, I'm really surprised to hear that. In all the stadium shows
> >> I've done we have used splitters for anything over 100 m.
> >
> > Sounds like overkill to me, but it won't do any harm and it gives you the
> > confidence to know
> > that everything is well within spec.
> >
> > Using long runs of DMX is a bit like walking towards a cliff wearing a
> > blindfold. When you stop,
> > you don't know if the edge is a foot away or a few hundred, so most people
> > stop after a short
> > distance to be absolutely safe. The more adventurous walk a bit further, and
> > the foolhardy wind
> > up at the bottom of the cliff.
> >
> > How far you bend the rules depends on the cost of doing it right versus the
> > consequences of it
> > going wrong. A big event can easily afford to chuck repeaters all over the
> > place, as it is much
> > cheaper than having everything fail during the show.
> >
> > All the tests that I have done with RS485 have shown that the cliff edge is a
> > lot further away
> > than the specs say it is. I will keep on walking!
>
> We're getting a lot of stories about people using long runs with no adverse
> affects.  Has anybody actually come up against the barrier?  Used a long run
> and got bitten in the ass?  It's those stories that will tell me where that
> cliff edge really is.
>
> Cris Dopher, LD

    I've bumped into limits, but this was in a rig that used regular microphone
cable, not proper DMX cable.   It was something around 500 feet or so
total run.  It manifested as occasional slow response and jerky fades on
the far end dimmer.  Unable to do much troubleshooting ( it was a one off
corporate show, and we ran out of time) we crossed our fingers and
hoped the clients wouldn't notice.

    --Dale



------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050724105436.029db000 [at] 192.168.0.13>
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 10:57:00 -0700
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: dmx lengths
In-Reply-To: <list-23857271 [at] prxy.net>
References: <007201c58f80$2a8c49b0$0e00a8c0 [at] Nigle>
 <list-23857271 [at] prxy.net>

At 10:44 AM 7/24/2005, you wrote:
>We're getting a lot of stories about people using long runs with no adverse
>affects.  Has anybody actually come up against the barrier?  Used a long run
>and got bitten in the ass?  It's those stories that will tell me where that
>cliff edge really is.


As a test I ran DMX data over 1000 feet of 24 ga blasting wire* in series 
with 1000 feet of 24 gage blasting wire.  All the wire was on 
spools.  Worked fine.

===
* Blasting wire is cheap, non-plated, solid-core zip cord...in bright 
yellow.  Life expectancy, one use.


----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free:  1 866 356-3886
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

Date:	Sun, 24 Jul 2005 14:35:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Vectorworks Questions
From:	"C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
Message-ID: <BF0957AB.1B9CE%brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
In-Reply-To: <auto-000023842071 [at] prxy.net>

On 7/23/05 10:57 AM, "C. Andrew Dunning" <cad [at] landrudesign.com> wrote:

> Steve - 
> 
>> There is no problem filling the hatches with color, but in the
>> areas without hatches, if I fill with color any lines in the
>> fill are covered.
>> Is there anyway to adjust the opacity of the fill?
> 
> I think I'm understanding what you're trying to do.  Have you tried
> selecting the solid fill (the block of color) and typing "Ctrl-B", so that
> whatever lines are in the space (that were being covered) are now in front
> of the fill?

Sam Jones quite appropriately explained cntrl-B as the quickkey for "Send to
Back" command, which may help with one of Steve's problems.  The other way
of looking at what's happening to Steve's drawing is that once he fills with
a pattern and THEN goes to choose a solid color for "between the lines",
he's accidently choosing a solid fill again, though this is admittedly less
likely than his simply having overlapping and conflicting objects.

There is no way, Steve, to set part of a hatch to transparent,
unfortunately.  I have successfully faked this at times by using a hatch
background color that matches the color of the object behind it, and then
drawing a few extra lines as needed.  PITA, not usually worth it.

In a true 2D drawing, Steve, you should be drafting exactly as you would by
pencil, in which objects and surfaces hidden behind other surfaces simply
don't get drawn and only what's visible in that particular elevation does
get drawn.  This will help with having to juggle a lot of objects with the
"Send to Back" command, because no objects should be overlapping.

Sam is also correct about 3D being the only way to render with complex
textures.  However, once you've completed your 2D drawings, you can simply
extrude the objects you want to render with a texture (save a copy of your
drawing FIRST!) and set the extrude to -- whatever.  (As long as you don't
change your view, you'll never know how far the objects extruded.)  Set the
extrude to 0" if you wish, works just the same.  Now you'll have a bunch of
objects that are, effectively, pure planes, arranged like a jigsaw to create
your 2D elevation.  Then you can assign colors, textures, even photo maps
and render away.  The caveat is that you'll lose your exterior lines.  In
order to trick around this, before extruding the objects you want to have
texture, DUPLICATE them in place.  Set the top/front object to nofill, and
extrude only the rear object.  You also have to put a lighting object in the
drawing somewhere, too.

Personally, I find Vectorworks has enough native 2D fills to do
"prettied-up" elevations without resorting to all the stuff above.

As for the sketch mode of artistic renderworks, I find it a little hokey.
Still, it's an impressive rendering mode and displays an economic use of
computing power (compared to the legacy Custom Renderworks options).

Cris Dopher, LD


------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050724164931.029c2450 [at] 192.168.0.13>
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 16:52:35 -0700
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Sanity check

I just posted the newly updated manual for our DC Dimmers on our support 
page.  If anyone wants to point out all the stupid mistakes I've made in 
it, please let me know off-list.  I'm SURE I've done something, too warm 
here to think (plus it's Sunday).  :)


Manual: 
http://interstellar.com/support/DC_Dimmer/Instruction_Manual_4242-1_1-0.pdf

----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free:  1 866 356-3886
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

Message-ID: <05dc01c590b0$3516fcf0$0400a8c0 [at] ALFOFFICE>
Reply-To: "Alf Sauve" <alf.sauve [at] mindspring.com>
From: "Alf Sauve" <alf.sauve [at] mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Acoustically Transparent Projection Material
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:31:02 -0400


We're retro fitting an elevator in the building.  The shaft was in the
original construction but the elevator was never purchased.  Last week, I
covered all stage right organ speakers(16), in the "pipe loft" above the
elevator shaft with plastic to protect them from the welding soot and dust.
Then I sealed the entire inside of the loft with one layer of plastic and
the area around the shaft with two added layers of flame retardant drop
cloth to protect the area from the welding.

Coincidentally, on Thursday, the organ folks came by to use our organ as a
demo for some other churches.  After the demo I got the organist aside and
asked him how it sounded.  "Just great," he said.  After I told him about
all the plastic, then he started "remembering" how muffled some "ranks"
sounded and how he thought he had heard "rattling".

Ah the power of suggestion.  My next test will be the reverse.  After the
construction is completed and the organ speakers restored and checked out.
I'll wait till another unsuspecting organist demo's our system then I'll
tell him all the speakers are covered (which they won't be) and see if he
"remembers" any difference.

 Alf




 ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David R. Krajec" <drkrajec [at] stritch.edu>
> To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 1:29 PM
> Subject: Acoustically Transparent Projection Material
>
>> Interesting discussion about acoustically transparent material.  I once
>> worked with an organist at a major university who insisted that the color 
>> of
>> the cloth in front of the organ pipes affected the quality of sound.  The
>> pipes were mounted on either side of the proscenium and we wanted a 
>> darker
>> color so it would not detract from the stage when we did musicals or 
>> operas.
>> I think we ended up with beige.
>> Go figure!
>>
>> David K.


------------------------------

Message-ID: <20050725003434.52957.qmail [at] web20825.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 17:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Hood <hoodnik77 [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: stage floor mtls
In-Reply-To: <list-23768345 [at] prxy.net>

So, I'm guessing the quest for easily replaceable
sheet goods for flooring is due to the ridiculously
high price of radial-sawn clear fir or the like... I
just spent a few weeks on a floor of this sort, and it
was pretty nice. Granted, it was 50 years old and had
been torn up a bit in places, but it was certainly
taking weight from genies and such much better than
I've ever seen any sheet goods do. My shop floor at my
home uni is 1/4" ply, nailed down in the corners and
along the edges into 3/4" plywood. It doesn't seem
much bothered by the paint or water spills or anything
else. We drove a forklift over it carrying 14" high
formed-channel beams (32' long), and I've thrown a
stack of 8 of our 2x4frame + 3/4ply + 1/2homasote
platforms onto a pallet lifter (total weight is
roughly a ton) and the whole footprint fits on a
half-sheet of playwood, with no permanent deformation
to the floor. Our small theatre has 1/4" tempered
hardboard on the floor, and it buckled and warped like
crazy when the "Miracle Worker" crew forgot to drain
the drip pan for the water pump. Had to replace 2
sheets, and the new stuff wasn't the same thickness,
so I've got a 1/16" ridge running down the middle of
the acting area...
Any other materials?

Oh, on the vertical space issue... I'm thinking about
trying to get small shelf-style mezzanines installed
down both walls of our shop, and putting the
industrial-style pallet shelving on top of it. We
could store lots o' stuff up there... Not "cheap", but
it's a better use of space than sticking up show
memorabilia to remind us of "glory days"...

Slainte, y'all.
Steven Hood
TD, Regent Uni
PS: We hired a new set designer. We're sorting out
"The Foreigner" in the round... Fun, huh?


		
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
 

------------------------------

Message-ID: <20050725015314.63180.qmail [at] web20825.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 18:53:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Hood <hoodnik77 [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: best and worst things found...
In-Reply-To: <list-23683249 [at] prxy.net>

All y'all will ahev to excuse me. I've been living in
crazy-land and sacrificing my reading time to the
supposed plan of keeping up with the production
schedule. Made life more crazy and less humorous (and
more isolated from similarly-suffering folks...
Anyhow... best thing found: administrators who listen
(when inspections, new or specialized tools and
upgrades are needed/due)
worst thing found: different administrators who look
closely at educational theatre budgets and decide that
ticket sales and ad sales should pay for the shows in
the first year without providing real marketing
support
oddest thing found: a real antique gun in the props
cabinet, never modified for stage use. Could fire a
rather large-caliber bullet if supplied with a cap and
a gunpowder charge... I think we pulled it and had it
locked up in someone's file cabinet so it would never
be used on stage... (I was but a wee student then)
Slainte, y'all
Steven


		
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
 

------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-23860975 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-23860975 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <df8b61b7f021d7e63e23c3b682d5989a [at] email.arizona.edu>
Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien)
From: Mark O'Brien <marko [at] email.arizona.edu>
Subject: Free cadd,the catch....
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:22:27 -0700

A while back, someone posted something about free cad, and finally the 
day is here... with a catch

"All free versions of Alibre Design Xpress require an Internet 
connection and will display a banner of Google ads through a built-in 
web page. No third-party adware is installed on your system. If your 
Internet connection is lost we have taken steps to ensure that you can 
save your work. The Internet connection requirement can be turned off 
for a small fee."

It seems that you have to be hooked up to the internet, so that Google 
can plaster ads all over your drawing.

It seems like chicken SH** to me, unless they supply the draftsperson 
for free also...

Mark-O



Mark O'Brien
Opera Technical Director
University of Arizona, School of Music
Tucson, AZ
520/621-7025
520/591-1803 Mobile


------------------------------

End of Stagecraft Digest #468
*****************************