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For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Stagecraft Digest, Issue #477

 1. Re: TDL What is Legitimate Theatre?  All of Tilbury wants to know (fwd)
    by Charlie Richmond <charlier [at] RichmondSoundDesign.com>
 2. Re: visualization
    by "C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
 3. Dimming 12 volt
    by "C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
 4. Re: TDL What is Legitimate Theatre?  All of Tilbury wants to know (fwd)
    by Charlie Richmond <charlier [at] RichmondSoundDesign.com>
 5. Re: Follow spot repeat...
    by "C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
 6. Re: Dimming 12 volt
    by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
 7. Re: Digital Photos - has anyone tried "RAW" format?
    by "C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
 8. Re: Need label legend help in VW 10
    by "C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
 9. Re: Need label legend help in VW 10
    by "C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
10. Re: Recommendations on Assistive Listening
    by Cosmo Catalano <Cosmo.A.Catalano [at] williams.edu>
11. Re: TDL What is Legitimate Theatre?  All of Tilbury wants to know (fwd)
    by "Haagen Trey P Civ 34 TRW/SDAT" <Trey.Haagen [at] usafa.af.mil>
12. Re: Need label legend help in VW 10
    by "C. Andrew Dunning" <cad [at] landrudesign.com>
13. Re: Need label legend help in VW 10
    by Samuel Jones <sjones [at] ucla.edu>
14. Re: Dimming 12 volt
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
15. Re: Follow spot repeat...
    by "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
16. Re: Follow spot repeat...
    by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
17. Re: Follow spot repeat...
    by "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
18. Re: Dimming 12 volt
    by "Chris Warner" <bearz2 [at] cox.net>
19. Re: Dimming 12 volt
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
20. Re: House lighting in a small black box
    by "Michael Finney" <mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com>
21. Show
    by "Alex Curry" <alex_curry23 [at] hotmail.com>
22. Re: Show
    by Delbert Hall <delbert.hall [at] gmail.com>
23. Re: visualization
    by Wood Chip-P26398 <Chip.Wood [at] motorola.com>
24. Re: Vacuform...
    by Tom Grabowski <tomgrab [at] utpa.edu>
25. Re: Show
    by Joseph Champelli <joechamp [at] gmail.com>
26. Re: Dimming 12 volt
    by "Chris Warner" <bearz2 [at] cox.net>
27. Re: Dimming 12 volt
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
28. Re: Need label legend help in VW 10
    by John McKernon <stagecraft2005 [at] mckernon.com>
29. Re: Need label legend help in VW 10
    by Samuel Jones <sjones [at] ucla.edu>
30. Re: Follow spot repeat...
    by "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>
31. Re: visualization
    by "Andy Leviss" <Andy [at] DucksEchoSound.com>

*** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject
*** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to
*** one message subject in each reply.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 12:31:35 +0100 (BST)
From: Charlie Richmond <charlier [at] RichmondSoundDesign.com>
Cc: THEATRE-SOUND [at] LISTSERV.AOL.COM (List - Theatre-sound)
Subject: Re: TDL What is Legitimate Theatre?  All of Tilbury wants to know
 (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0508021229580.24166 [at] viscount.richmondsounddesign.com>

An interesting thread from another list...

Charlie

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 07:22:05 -0400
From: ALAN WOODS <woods.1 [at] osu.edu>
To: TheatreDiscussionLst [at] yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: TDL What is Legitimate Theatre?  All of Tilbury wants to know

to answer historically:  legitimate theatre took place in London theatres with legal patents from the monarchy (we're talking 17th and 18th centuries here); illegitimate theatre took place in unlicensed places of entertainment.  Because the illegal theatres periodically challenged the right of the legal theatres to have them suppressed, 'theatre' was legally defined in a variety of ways, most of which had to do with dramatic structure and the uses of music.  After the Theatre Regulation Act in the 1840s ended all that, 'legitimate theatre' came to mean the professional commercial theatre presented whatever its audiences regarded as 'real theatre'--as opposed to music hall, variety, vaudeville, burlesque, parody, etc.  The boundary lines remain fluid.

Sorry to be so long winded.  I'm a university person, after all---

Alan


Alan Woods

------------------------------

Date:	Tue, 02 Aug 2005 07:36:35 -0400
Subject: Re: visualization
From:	"C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
Message-ID: <BF14D303.1BD59%brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
In-Reply-To: <JNEMKLCHNOMOHOGEILMLEEAICHAA.anikel [at] citytheatrical.com>

On 8/1/05 7:43 AM, "Andrew Nikel" <anikel [at] citytheatrical.com> wrote:

> We had a request a while back for a control device using an audio feed to
> drive LED fixtures like a light organ/Windows Media Player Visualizer. We
> came up with a couple ideas but it wasn't developed. I hadn't considered the
> legality of using the pre-recorded music though, as it was for a ritzy but
> still private home. In your case, it's a public performance and the music
> could be live. That's an interesting question, Chris. I'll be interested to
> hear what people think.
> 
> Andrew Nikel - Sales

Isn't this old old very old technology?  Remember the '70s?  Remember the
'80s?  Remember the boxes that would pulse colored lights behind prismatic
lenses to the beat of your music?  Very common at clubs and discos.  Replace
the old incandescents lamps and strobe lamps with a BOL (Bunch O' LEDS [tm])
and there ya go.  Visualization, courtesy of 30-year-old technology.

Yeah, yeah, I know you want fancy, schmancy psychedelic patterns on your
cyc... So run your monitor feed into an LCD projector.  If you've got the
money to build an LED floor or wall to run this technology - or rent such
things - then the provider also ALREADY has the gear to run any computer
feed into the video wall/floor.

Cris Dopher, LD


------------------------------

Date:	Tue, 02 Aug 2005 07:39:26 -0400
Subject: Dimming 12 volt
From:	"C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
Message-ID: <BF14D3AE.1BD5B%brooklyn [at] dopher.com>

I've got some 12 volt display lights on the floor as footlights for a
performance at The Bank Street Theater.  Anybody know the concerns of
dimming these on a regular dimmer?  Obviously, they have the transformer
wall-wort in-line.  Worked great last night, but I'm wondering if I'd be
bettery off building a part cue to bring these up in a zero count at the end
fo the crossfade?

Cris Dopher, LD


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 12:45:40 +0100 (BST)
From: Charlie Richmond <charlier [at] RichmondSoundDesign.com>
Cc: THEATRE-SOUND [at] LISTSERV.AOL.COM (List - Theatre-sound)
Subject: Re: TDL What is Legitimate Theatre?  All of Tilbury wants to know
 (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0508021244520.24166 [at] viscount.richmondsounddesign.com>

And an interesting follow-up....

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 07:36:54 -0400
From: ALAN WOODS <woods.1 [at] osu.edu>
To: TheatreDiscussionLst [at] yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: TDL What is Legitimate Theatre?  All of Tilbury wants to know

and posted before getting to the next page and seeing the rest of the responses.  I would add: "legitimate theatre" survives primarily because that's how Variety titles its coverage of the commercial theatre.  It's meaningless otherwise.  And as irrelevant as most theatre I see these days.

But then, most theatre has almost always been irrelevant, as anything other than escapist entertainment meant to divert its audience.  That's why I treasure those few writers and productions which attempt to deal with, or comment on, current issues.  But judging from the crowds now mobbing a downtown theatre in Columbus this week to see Phantom of the Opera, the ecstatic audience at MesugahNuns last weekend at the Jewish Community Center, and the virtually empty houses at significant productions at the Columbus Fringe Festival in May, I remain in the minority.

Nothing wrong with sheer entertainment--in moderation.  It remains as dangerous to one's aesthetic sensibility as an unmitigated diet of food is to one's health.

cheers--

Alan



Alan Woods

------------------------------

Date:	Tue, 02 Aug 2005 07:52:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Follow spot repeat...
From:	"C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
Message-ID: <BF14D6CB.1BD5D%brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
In-Reply-To: <OFDF28753E.EEB2D5C9-ON85257050.005C6A88-85257050.005CA9D3 [at] sarasotagov.com>

On 8/1/05 12:52 PM, "Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com"
<Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com> wrote:

> 
> Steve Jones wrote:
> 
> Now that life has slowed down a bit here, let me repeat a question I asked
> several months ago and am just getting back around to dealing with.
> 
> Our theatre is looking to purchase 2 followspots.  They need to have a max
> usuable throw of 150 feet and operate off of 120 AC and run as quiet as
> possible.
> 
> Any hands on input would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Steve

Big arc units are probaby the way to go, but just for fun, I plugged in a
Source 4 5-degree 750 watt.  Not bright enough...but so close...

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3265/picture19hq.png

Cris Dopher, LD


------------------------------

Reply-To: <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
Subject: RE: Dimming 12 volt
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 07:53:59 -0400
Message-ID: <000901c59758$e1d8df90$6801a8c0 [at] Dell>
In-Reply-To: <list-24001419 [at] prxy.net>

Depending on the dimmer, you might want to ghost-load it with a 60W (or so)
cliplight.  This will prevent the wall-wart from frying.
 
> I've got some 12 volt display lights on the floor as 
> footlights for a performance at The Bank Street Theater.  
> Anybody know the concerns of dimming these on a regular 
> dimmer?  Obviously, they have the transformer wall-wort 
> in-line.  Worked great last night, but I'm wondering if I'd 
> be bettery off building a part cue to bring these up in a 
> zero count at the end fo the crossfade?



------------------------------

Date:	Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:00:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Digital Photos - has anyone tried "RAW" format?
From:	"C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
Message-ID: <BF14D88A.1BD5F%brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
In-Reply-To: <20050801165455.LWVR2981.tomts43-srv.bellnexxia.net [at] p3m866>

On 8/1/05 12:54 PM, "Jim at TheatreWireless.com"
<stagecraft [at] theatrewireless.com> wrote:

> Has anyone tried capturing their digital lighting designs with RAW or TIFF
> image format?  On the Nikon D70 and D100 (and possibly the new D50 as well)
> the raw data format is 12 bits per pixel.  If the JPG format only supports
> 8-bit (I'm pretty sure this is the case), you lose depth when the camera
> compresses the image.
> 
> Do the Rebel cameras have the RAW option as well?  Is the native resolution
> of the CCD higher than 8 bits per pixel?
> 
> I'm going to be experimenting with RAW format on my D100 in the coming week.
> With those extra 4 bits (conceivably 16 times more depth) it should be a lot
> closer to the dynamic range of film.  The trade-off is that a 256MB flash
> card will only store 24 RAW images or 13 TIFF images, compared to 142 with
> normal JPG compression.  All of these options are at full 6-megapixel
> resolution.
> 
> Jim

I've investigating both lines right now, as I'm about to trade in my current
Canon digital for a digital SLR.  With my Canon Powershot, an 8mp camera, I
have done a lot of shooting in the RAW mode and been quite pleased with the
results.  The answer to storage is either bring along your laptop, or find a
bigger card!  I found a 4 gig card on ebay for cheap.  Came out of an MP3
player, I believe.  Does the trick just fine.

Processing the RAW images can take forever.  Sometimes you can get a batch
process going, but if you're shooting theatre, you'll have to adjust each
image.  The fact that RAW is a far more maleable image format is absolutely
the truth.  My principal dance lighting photog, who has a DX-something,
shoots exclusively in RAW and his images are the best theatre/dance captures
I've ever seen.

I'm currently split between the Rebel XT and the Nikon D70/D100.  My
decision will be based on shutter lag times, CCD sensor quality, and ability
to shoot in RAW, TIFF, or JPG as I choose.  I am curious if my Canon
Speedlight flash will work on a Nikon...guess I'll take a trip to B&H Video
and find out, eh?

Cris Dopher


------------------------------

Date:	Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:01:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Need label legend help in VW 10
From:	"C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
Message-ID: <BF14D8D3.1BD60%brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
In-Reply-To: <0IKK008503I5UCE0 [at] ha14sca-mail1.sfbay.sun.com>

On 8/1/05 2:32 PM, "Edward Hunter" <ed.hunter [at] Sun.COM> wrote:

> I'm trying to create a label legend in VW 10 but for some reason the container
> (in this case a circle) won't scale with the text it's suppose to contain.  So
> my channel numbers wind up spilling outside their circle.  Clearly I'm missing
> something but I'm not sure what.  Thanks.
> -edh
> 

Is this in Spotlight, or Autoplot?

Cris


------------------------------

Date:	Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:04:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Need label legend help in VW 10
From:	"C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
Message-ID: <BF14D989.1BD61%brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
In-Reply-To: <F585F14E-D1D8-4232-8B8D-539BD584B33C [at] theprices.net>

On 8/2/05 12:52 AM, "Noah Price" <stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net> wrote:

> 
> On Aug 1, 2005, at 9:20 PM, Samuel Jones wrote:
> 
>> What does "more automated text alignment across symbols" mean?
> 
> With a row of instruments along a pipe, it's difficult to get all
> unit's labels (i.e. the dimmer/circuit/color labels) aligned across
> the pipe if the symbols were slightly different sizes so they didn't
> align naturally. For example, trying to align all the dimmer labels
> in a row when there are both back and side pointing instruments. Or,
> very different size instruments like Source4 PARs on a pipe with
> Source4s.

Why Noah?  If you have rotated units, your associated information SHOULD be
moving!  The only time I can envision perfect alignment is if you have an
electric of identical lekos, such as a house electric.

Cris Dopher


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:36:32 -0400
From: Cosmo Catalano <Cosmo.A.Catalano [at] williams.edu>
Subject: Re: Recommendations on Assistive Listening
In-reply-to: <list-24000591 [at] prxy.net>
Message-id: <01c8e3867769b7370eb31d70d93b8850 [at] williams.edu>
References: <list-24000591 [at] prxy.net>

Our recent experiences here with a Listen Technologies UHF system.  
This has been an excellent system, very clear sound, easy to set up.  
However...

1. Ear buds and folks over 60 do not seem compatible.  We are switching 
to headsets ($12.50).
2. Neck loops for people with the appropriate hearing aid work very 
well.  Most users don't have hearing aids...see note 3, below.
3. Levels need to be set at ear-splitting volumes.  A compressor in the 
audio circuit  would be useful to bring the low and high volume moments 
closer to each other.  People have trouble hearing relatively soft 
dialogue (normal volume to most folks), especially when actors are not 
facing downstage.  Louder passages, multiple actors speaking, 
applause/laughter, etc will slam the signal into unrecognizable 
distortion.
3.5.  We are using a shotgun mic on the balcony rail.  A direct feed 
from wireless talent mics might be clearer--but we do not use these for 
drama, typically.
4.  The receivers are hands down the cause of most complaints to house 
staff (we hope replacing the ear buds w/ headsets will help).  There is 
also a significant amount of labor involved in distributing, 
collecting, cleaning and repairing the receivers and earphones.  Neck 
lanyards will help prevent dropped units.
5. Make sure you have a good place for the antenna (70" long) that is 
away from large pieces of steel and concrete.  Check radio spectrum for 
other signals.  Units have a wide range of channels.  We had to re-set 
our channels when one company's wireless headsets intermittently got 
onto the AL frequency.

Cosmo


------------------------------

Subject: RE: TDL What is Legitimate Theatre?  All of Tilbury wants to know (fwd)
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 07:02:58 -0600
Message-ID: <67CADCB91D266042A8DAB3B981DCFD14FD4BB7 [at] AFAMAIL2.USAFA.afspc.ds.af.mil>
From: "Haagen Trey P Civ 34 TRW/SDAT" <Trey.Haagen [at] usafa.af.mil>


"Nothing wrong with sheer entertainment--in moderation.  It remains as
dangerous to one's aesthetic sensibility as an unmitigated diet of food
is to one's health."

And it puts the children through university, puts new siding on the
house, helps pay for the periodic vacation (in
conjunction with taking children to university, of course) and
periodically, I receive great joy and a glimmer of self-actualization
from my efforts in the entertainment business.  :) =20

Trey Haagen


------------------------------

Reply-To: <cad [at] landrudesign.com>
From: "C. Andrew Dunning" <cad [at] landrudesign.com>
Subject: RE: Need label legend help in VW 10
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 08:07:26 -0500
Organization: Landru Design
In-Reply-To: <list-24001697 [at] prxy.net>
Message-ID: <E1DzwUU-0005oD-GL [at] smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net>

Chris -

>Is this in Spotlight, or Autoplot?

Spotlight.  AutoPlot, thankfully, doesn't use Label Legends.

C. Andrew Dunning
Landru Design
-
Nashville, TN
-
cad [at] landrudesign.com
www.landrudesign.com



------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-24002531 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-24002531 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <8d7ec0e1ede68cc772d164fac06b5c3a [at] ucla.edu>
From: Samuel Jones <sjones [at] ucla.edu>
Subject: Re: Need label legend help in VW 10
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 06:52:38 -0700

It is true  that AutoPlotVW does not use Label Legends; however, it 
will have the same problem of not being able to align the text of 2 
separate symbols without moving the entire symbol.  Careful 
construction of the lighting fixture symbol set would allow for aligned 
labels, but I would not do it myself.  Both the desire to have a 
minimum impact on light plot real estate and the desire to easily 
associate the label to the fixture graphic keeps me placing my labels 
(or there AutoPlotVW) equivalent) as close to the fixture graphic as 
clarity allows.

My Two Cents,
Sam

Samuel L. Jones
Developer of AutoPlotVW and AutoPlot Tools for SpotLight
sjones [at] arts.ucla.edu
=============================================================

On Aug 2, 2005, at 6:07 AM, C. Andrew Dunning wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Chris -
>> On 8/2/05 12:52 AM, "Noah Price" <stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 1, 2005, at 9:20 PM, Samuel Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>> What does "more automated text alignment across symbols" mean?
>>>
>>> With a row of instruments along a pipe, it's difficult to get all
>>> unit's labels (i.e. the dimmer/circuit/color labels) aligned across
>>> the pipe if the symbols were slightly different sizes so they didn't
>>> align naturally. For example, trying to align all the dimmer labels
>>> in a row when there are both back and side pointing instruments. Or,
>>> very different size instruments like Source4 PARs on a pipe with
>>> Source4s.
>>
>> Why Noah?  If you have rotated units, your associated information 
>> SHOULD be
>> moving!  The only time I can envision perfect alignment is if you 
>> have an
>> electric of identical lekos, such as a house electric.
>>
>> Cris Dopher
>
> Spotlight.  AutoPlot, thankfully, doesn't use Label Legends.
>
> C. Andrew Dunning
> Landru Design
> -
> Nashville, TN
> -
> cad [at] landrudesign.com
> www.landrudesign.com
>
>
>


------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-24001419 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-24001419 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <2A12FF6D-47A9-4B52-ABDC-23631E3D7263 [at] interstellar.com>
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: Dimming 12 volt
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 08:18:56 -0700

On Aug 2, 2005, at 4:39 AM, C. Dopher wrote:

> I've got some 12 volt display lights on the floor as footlights for a
> performance at The Bank Street Theater.  Anybody know the concerns of
> dimming these on a regular dimmer?  Obviously, they have the  
> transformer
> wall-wort in-line.  Worked great last night, but I'm wondering if  
> I'd be
> bettery off building a part cue to bring these up in a zero count  
> at the end
> fo the crossfade?

Many transformers don't like to be dimmed, especially if they put out  
DC (have internal diodes).  There ARE transformers specifically made  
for use on dimmers, you need to make sure you have one of these or  
use a DC dimmer.

Several of us on this list make DC dimmers specifically for this use,  
both wired and wireless.




------------------------------

Message-ID: <000b01c59777$eb13e860$0600000a [at] BRUTUS>
From: "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
References: <list-24001555 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: Follow spot repeat...
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 08:36:14 -0700

> Big arc units are probaby the way to go, but just for fun, I plugged in a
> Source 4 5-degree 750 watt.  Not bright enough...but so close...


I did a show in a house last fall that replaced their fan-blown FSs with 2 
Source Fours...  the TD there swore they were great, plenty bright, etc. 
Had all the City Theatrical parts for it: boomerangs, handles, iris, etc.  I 
couldn't get them to cut through the rest of the S4 inventory - so I had 
them re-lamped at 750 (the rest of the rig was 575, and was fine).  Even at 
750, the S4s were anemic, and also those 750 lamps don't take kindly to 
being swung around and jostled while hot.  We went through 3 spares in 2 
weeks.  Plus, they were hard to control (pan, tilt smoothly).

  - Jon Ares
www.hevanet.com/acreative 


------------------------------

Reply-To: <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
Subject: RE: Follow spot repeat...
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 11:42:56 -0400
Message-ID: <001301c59778$ddf83c70$6801a8c0 [at] Dell>
In-Reply-To: <list-24005065 [at] prxy.net>

Jon, my experience has been the exact opposite of yours.  It all depends =
on
the throw.  Did you have the CT yokes?  Were the S4s 19 degrees or =
narrower?

=20
> Even at=20
> 750, the S4s were anemic, and also those 750 lamps don't take=20
> kindly to=20
> being swung around and jostled while hot.  We went through 3=20
> spares in 2=20
> weeks.  Plus, they were hard to control (pan, tilt smoothly).
>=20
>   - Jon Ares
> www.hevanet.com/acreative=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20



------------------------------

Message-ID: <002501c5977a$008eccd0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS>
From: "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
Cc: stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com
References: <list-24005157 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: Follow spot repeat...
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 08:51:10 -0700

> Jon, my experience has been the exact opposite of yours.  It all depends 
> on
> the throw.  Did you have the CT yokes?  Were the S4s 19 degrees or 
> narrower?
>

...Actually, they were 10 degree units... and yes, I believe they were the 
CT yokes.

  - Jon Ares
www.hevanet.com/acreative 


------------------------------

Message-ID: <030a01c5977c$8f01dcd0$6401a8c0 [at] chris>
From: "Chris Warner" <bearz2 [at] cox.net>
References: <list-24001419 [at] prxy.net> <list-24004816 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: Dimming 12 volt
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 09:09:28 -0700

Jerry, don't mean to contradict here, but could you descirbe what is
different about these transformers?  My training says that a transformer is
nothing more than 2 or more coils of wire sharing a common iron core.  I
would think that the issue is realted to the rise and fall times of the
SCR's in the dimmers rather than the transformer itself.  I know that older
SCR dimmers could pulse due to the low cut off current on the SCR's, but to
my knowledge newer dimmers do not suffer this problem.

Thanks
Chris Warner

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Durand" <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Dimming 12 volt


> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> On Aug 2, 2005, at 4:39 AM, C. Dopher wrote:
>
> > I've got some 12 volt display lights on the floor as footlights for a
> > performance at The Bank Street Theater.  Anybody know the concerns of
> > dimming these on a regular dimmer?  Obviously, they have the
> > transformer
> > wall-wort in-line.  Worked great last night, but I'm wondering if
> > I'd be
> > bettery off building a part cue to bring these up in a zero count
> > at the end
> > fo the crossfade?
>
> Many transformers don't like to be dimmed, especially if they put out
> DC (have internal diodes).  There ARE transformers specifically made
> for use on dimmers, you need to make sure you have one of these or
> use a DC dimmer.
>
> Several of us on this list make DC dimmers specifically for this use,
> both wired and wireless.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.8/61 - Release Date: 8/1/2005
>
>



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.8/61 - Release Date: 8/1/2005


------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-24005570 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-24001419 [at] prxy.net> <list-24004816 [at] prxy.net> <list-24005570 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <742B6987-BABD-40E8-97FF-ECCE568D66E1 [at] interstellar.com>
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: Dimming 12 volt
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 09:18:58 -0700


On Aug 2, 2005, at 9:09 AM, Chris Warner wrote:

>
> Jerry, don't mean to contradict here, but could you descirbe what is
> different about these transformers?  My training says that a  
> transformer is
> nothing more than 2 or more coils of wire sharing a common iron  
> core.  I
> would think that the issue is realted to the rise and fall times of  
> the
> SCR's in the dimmers rather than the transformer itself.  I know  
> that older
> SCR dimmers could pulse due to the low cut off current on the  
> SCR's, but to
> my knowledge newer dimmers do not suffer this problem.
>

Sure, it has to do with those rise-times.  Cheaper transformers like  
found in AC adaptors are often just barely good enough for 60Hz.  The  
higher frequencies (from the fast rise time of the dimmer) create  
excessive heating in the transformer and can burn them out.

As for the DC output, the diodes conduct almost all the current on  
the rising edge of the incoming sine wave, with a little conduction  
past the peak.  As it is, a diode puts a strain on the transformer  
because they don't turn on until part-way up the slope.  Since Watts  
out = Volts * Amps in, the diode is drawing quite a larger current  
pulse during its on-time.  Now, add in the almost instantaneous rise  
time of a standard dimmer and the diode looks like a short to the  
transformer on every cycle.  Not good for the diode, transformer, or  
output capacitor.  It also won't give you very linear dimming.

You can find these transformers in track lighting that is marked as  
dimmable.  I also have a pin-spot with a built-in dimmable  
transformer.  They are bigger than the normal cheap ones and cost a  
bit more.

As for the ghost load, any small load may not work right on standard  
dimmers.  Check your manual for any mention of minimum load.  I have  
some dimmers here that need about 25W to work.


------------------------------

Subject: Re: House lighting in a small black box
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:13:53 -0700
Message-ID: <AE704B0123616D4BBE8BD0A464A0FD292051BB [at] ESERVER.mail.local>
From: "Michael Finney" <mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com>

I'm going to second the original suggestion for cheap "china hat" =
pendant fixtures.  You should be able to pick them up at the local =
hardware store for less than $15 a pop (I just bought a bunch of =
'designer' versions from IKEA for $18 each).  They're rugged, cheap, =
have a certain amount of style to them (always good from an =
architectural lighting point of view), can be painted to match pretty =
much any d=E9cor, and you have a lot of lamping options - go with =
regular A-lamps or G4's for general soft area light, replace them with =
R-type lamps for a little more "focus", use PAR lamps for even more =
control (but a "harsher" look), or replace them with self-ballasted =
fluorescents for cost effective (but limited dimming) lighting.  All in =
all, I think it's a better option than trying to light the audience with =
theatrical fixtures (unless you need to for show design purposes, of =
course) - with all due respect to everybody suggesting fresnels of S4's, =
the lamp costs on the theatrical units really make them a =
less-than-optimum choice for audience lighting.  Now, if you need to =
really control the light for some reason that changes.....

One thing to be aware of on the pendants - in many (probably most) =
jurisdictions, you need to back up the hanging cord with another cable.  =
My preference is to actually hang the fixture from a wire rope/aircraft =
cable assembly, with the electric cable being tie-wrapped to the support =
cable.  Naturally, follow all the regular practices for rigging - treat =
the fixture like it's going to be hung over people's heads.  =
Oh....wait......(that's one of the things I've never understood about =
people just hanging a pendant fixture overhead by the cheap decorative =
chain or the cheap, jacketed 14/3 electric cable....).  The bad news is =
that most fixtures take a little modification to actually do this =
(usually just drill a hole and bolt in an eye bolt).  Not a problem for =
most of us here on the list.

Personally, I'd suggest adding some cheap metal halide work lights for =
cleaning and general maintenance if you can afford to - if not, then the =
second choice would be some cheap halogen work lights from the local =
hardware store.  You'll almost always want more light for work and =
clean-up than you'll want for general audience lighting.  If you're =
painting in the space, I'd tend towards the halogens for color temp...if =
you're not, then I'd try to go with metal halide (or fluorescent) for =
lamp life and operating cost.


Michael Finney
Thinkwell Design & Production
mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com
www.thinkwelldesign.com
=A0



------------------------------

Message-ID: <BAY101-F382AB60CB6104E7959589DEEC20 [at] phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <list-24000591 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Alex Curry" <alex_curry23 [at] hotmail.com>
Subject: Show
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 14:10:37 -0400

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV class=RTE>
<P><BR><BR>I'm going to Chicago,&nbsp; But only have time to see one show. What do you reccomend?</P>
<P>Thanks,</P>
<P>Alex Curry</P></DIV></div></html>


------------------------------

Message-ID: <b7318c4805080211375b02a3db [at] mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 14:37:54 -0400
From: Delbert Hall <delbert.hall [at] gmail.com>
Reply-To: Delbert Hall <delbert.hall [at] gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Show
In-Reply-To: <list-24007153 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-24000591 [at] prxy.net> <list-24007153 [at] prxy.net>

I know that Wicked is in Chicago.  I have not seen it, but I have
heard some good things about it (and ZFX does the flying effects).  Do
you other shows in Chicago?

-Dr. Hall

On 8/2/05, Alex Curry <alex_curry23 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I'm going to Chicago,  But only have time to see one show. What do you
> reccomend?
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Alex Curry
>=20
>=20


--=20
Delbert Hall
Phone: 423-773-4255

------------------------------

Message-ID: <014D202957F6D8118924000F20D7342B351A39 [at] az33exm01.corp.mot.com>
From: Wood Chip-P26398 <Chip.Wood [at] motorola.com>
Subject: RE: visualization
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 12:02:41 -0700 

Hey, Chris, yes, there are many of us who remember the 70's and 80's!  We even invented some of those old, old, very old technologies.  Think kindly on us old pharts.  However, believe it when some whippersnapper (old, old, very old term of derision) will write this list and say "remember the 00's and 10's, a long, long, very long  time ago". 

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of C. Dopher

Isn't this old old very old technology?  Remember the '70s?  Remember the '80s?  

------------------------------

From: Tom Grabowski <tomgrab [at] utpa.edu>
Reply-To: tomgrab [at] utpa.edu
Subject: RE:  Vacuform...
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 13:47:15 -0500
Organization: UTPA
In-Reply-To: <list-24000591 [at] prxy.net>
Message-ID: <20050802134716156.00000002156 [at] TGRABOWSKI>

> ------------------------------
> =

> Subject: Vacuform...
> Reply-To: mike [at] focusnote.com

> =

> Hello all.  I know this came up recently, but I am having =

> trouble searching the archives.  I am looking for Vacuform =

> suppliers, more specifically I am looking for books.
> =

> Thanks for the help.
> =

> Mike Wade


For our production of _The Musical Comedy Murders of 1940_ I got books for =
Tobins Lake. http://www.tobinslake.com/

Look at Easy Ornament #2512 and 2513 =


-- =

Tom Grabowski			University of Texas-Pan American
Designer/Technical Director	Communication Department
Tomgrab [at] UTPA.edu			Edinburg, Texas 78541
956/381-3588			FAX 956/318-2187


------------------------------

Message-ID: <621d2eb005080212272e62ddf6 [at] mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 12:27:43 -0700
From: Joseph Champelli <joechamp [at] gmail.com>
Reply-To: Joseph Champelli <joechamp [at] gmail.com>
Cc: delbert.hall [at] gmail.com (Delbert Hall)
Subject: Re: Show
In-Reply-To: <list-24007522 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-24000591 [at] prxy.net> <list-24007153 [at] prxy.net>
	 <list-24007522 [at] prxy.net>

Blue Man Group

On 8/2/05, Delbert Hall <delbert.hall [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>=20
> I know that Wicked is in Chicago.  I have not seen it, but I have
> heard some good things about it (and ZFX does the flying effects).  Do
> you other shows in Chicago?
>=20
> -Dr. Hall
>=20
> On 8/2/05, Alex Curry <alex_curry23 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see
> > <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm going to Chicago,  But only have time to see one show. What do you
> > reccomend?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Alex Curry
> >
> >
>=20
>=20
> --
> Delbert Hall
> Phone: 423-773-4255
>=20


--=20
Joseph Champelli
University of Tennessee
Entertainment Technology
865.974.7069 office=20
702.429.5859 cell=20
775.206.6078 fax
champelli [at] knology.net - home                             =20
jchampel [at] utk.edu - office

------------------------------

Message-ID: <034901c597a3$f77e7350$6401a8c0 [at] chris>
From: "Chris Warner" <bearz2 [at] cox.net>
References: <list-24001419 [at] prxy.net> <list-24004816 [at] prxy.net> <list-24005570 [at] prxy.net> <list-24005768 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: Dimming 12 volt
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 13:51:33 -0700

Guess I still have a lot to learn about diodes.  Of course, the text books
say that the average diode will sink .7v before it begins to conduct.  I'll
have to read some more about these devices.

Chris

> Sure, it has to do with those rise-times.  Cheaper transformers like
> found in AC adaptors are often just barely good enough for 60Hz.  The
> higher frequencies (from the fast rise time of the dimmer) create
> excessive heating in the transformer and can burn them out.
>
> As for the DC output, the diodes conduct almost all the current on
> the rising edge of the incoming sine wave, with a little conduction
> past the peak.  As it is, a diode puts a strain on the transformer
> because they don't turn on until part-way up the slope.  Since Watts
> out = Volts * Amps in, the diode is drawing quite a larger current
> pulse during its on-time.  Now, add in the almost instantaneous rise
> time of a standard dimmer and the diode looks like a short to the
> transformer on every cycle.  Not good for the diode, transformer, or
> output capacitor.  It also won't give you very linear dimming.
>
> You can find these transformers in track lighting that is marked as
> dimmable.  I also have a pin-spot with a built-in dimmable
> transformer.  They are bigger than the normal cheap ones and cost a
> bit more.
>
> As for the ghost load, any small load may not work right on standard
> dimmers.  Check your manual for any mention of minimum load.  I have
> some dimmers here that need about 25W to work.
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005
>
>



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005


------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050802135233.03c83110 [at] 192.168.0.13>
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 13:56:10 -0700
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: Dimming 12 volt
In-Reply-To: <list-24009010 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-24001419 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-24004816 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-24005570 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-24005768 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-24009010 [at] prxy.net>

At 01:51 PM 8/2/2005, you wrote:
>Guess I still have a lot to learn about diodes.  Of course, the text books
>say that the average diode will sink .7v before it begins to conduct.  I'll
>have to read some more about these devices.

Look up "rectifier circuits", you'll find ones that use one, two, or 
four diodes to change the AC to DC.  The transformer has to be 
designed to work with the number of diodes you're using or the 
circuit designer has to be careful what he's doing.

A typical four-diode circuit draws [square root of 2] times the 
current from the transformer than the DC output it is 
supplying.  This is for a sine wave, anything else, all bets are off.

Also look up RMS current.


-- 
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free:  1 866 356-3886
web:  www.interstellar.com



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 18:59:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Need label legend help in VW 10
From: John McKernon <stagecraft2005 [at] mckernon.com>
Message-ID: <BF157304.1826A%stagecraft2005 [at] mckernon.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-24003496 [at] prxy.net>

> It is true  that AutoPlotVW does not use Label Legends; however, it
> will have the same problem of not being able to align the text of 2
> separate symbols without moving the entire symbol.

You might want to give Plot Tools a try, I believe you can move individual
elements (like channel numbers) semi-independently of the light they refer
to. I'm not sure if a final version has been released, contact Josh Benghiat
to find out: benghiat (at) earthlink.net

- John
  
------------------------------
=== john2005 [at] mckernon.com ====


------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-24010806 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-24010806 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <0aabac01ad6039683d22e5cbaabab8df [at] ucla.edu>
From: Samuel Jones <sjones [at] ucla.edu>
Subject: Re: Need label legend help in VW 10
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 16:13:26 -0700

I would definitely give a look at Plot Tools; it is an interesting 
approach.  However, I don't think there is any way to align text items 
from multiple fixtures without moving all the text in the label and 
probably the fixture as well.  The labels in Plot Tools are the PIOs, 
and as such the text contained in them cannot be related separately to 
text in other PIOs (Labels).  Again Plot Tools is an interesting 
approach to plot making and worth a look, but your desire for cross 
symbol alignment of individual symbol (or PIO) items is not yet 
possible to my knowledge.  Josh, you want to step in here?

Sam

Samuel L. Jones
AutoPlotVW and AutoPlot Tools for SpotLight Developer
sjones [at] arts.ucla.edu

==========================================================

On Aug 2, 2005, at 3:59 PM, John McKernon wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
>> It is true  that AutoPlotVW does not use Label Legends; however, it
>> will have the same problem of not being able to align the text of 2
>> separate symbols without moving the entire symbol.
>
> You might want to give Plot Tools a try, I believe you can move 
> individual
> elements (like channel numbers) semi-independently of the light they 
> refer
> to. I'm not sure if a final version has been released, contact Josh 
> Benghiat
> to find out: benghiat (at) earthlink.net
>
> - John
>
> ------------------------------
> === john2005 [at] mckernon.com ====
>


------------------------------

Message-ID: <3253.64.28.51.248.1123029148.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org>
In-Reply-To: <list-24001555 [at] prxy.net>
References: 
    <OFDF28753E.EEB2D5C9-ON85257050.005C6A88-85257050.005CA9D3 [at] sarasotagov.com>
    <list-24001555 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 17:32:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Follow spot repeat...
From: "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>


> Big arc units are probaby the way to go, but just for fun, I plugged in a
> Source 4 5-degree 750 watt.  Not bright enough...but so close...

It depends on the throw distance. I have used a S4 with both 5 degree and
10 degree lenses and they have worked fine from the balcony rail. But we
only have a 300 seat house. I used a drop in iris for a bit of light
control.

Bill


------------------------------

From: "Andy Leviss" <Andy [at] DucksEchoSound.com>
Subject: RE: visualization
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 04:46:38 -0400
Organization: Duck's Echo Sound
Message-ID: <000d01c59807$dd1dadf0$a19afea9 [at] ALLAPTOP>
In-Reply-To: <list-24007758 [at] prxy.net>

Chris Dopher wrote:
> Think kindly on us old pharts.  However, 
> believe it when some whippersnapper (old, old, very old term 
> of derision) will write this list and say "remember the 00's 
> and 10's, a long, long, very long  time ago". 

What's perhaps the most frightening thing about this is that my first
thought when I read this was, "Gee, why did he skip 1?" until I realized
Chris meant decades, and not binary digits!

--Andy
http://OneFromTheRoad.com
Tools, Toys, and Tales for Theatrical Technicians
(and the occasional rant!)

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.9/62 - Release Date: 8/2/2005
 


------------------------------

End of Stagecraft Digest #477
*****************************