Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 24217417; Mon, 15 Aug 2005 03:00:40 -0700 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #489 Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 03:00:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on prxy.net X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #489 1. Martin gear tools by David Wetmore 2. Re: Audio Power Sequencer by CB 3. Re: Turntable Shmurmtable by CB 4. Re: Grid System (On behalf of Bill Sapsis) Part Two by Greg Williams 5. Re: Audio Power Sequencer by Charlie Richmond 6. Re: Audio Power Sequencer by Jerry Durand 7. Re: Audio Power Sequencer by Charlie Richmond 8. Re: Audio Power Sequencer by Jerry Durand 9. Re: Audio Power Sequencer by Charlie Richmond 10. Re: Audio Power Sequencer by "Bill Nelson" 11. Moving Lights by "holyoak1" 12. Re: Moving Lights by seanrmc [at] earthlink.net 13. Re: Moving Lights by Herrick Goldman 14. Re: Audio Power Sequencer by Charlie Richmond 15. Re: Grid System (On behalf of Bill Sapsis) Part Two by Joseph Champelli *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <3909067.1124050602117.JavaMail.davidfitwe [at] mac.com> Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:16:42 -0700 From: David Wetmore Subject: Martin gear tools To All, When trying to replace an lamp bases on a Mac 600 for example at the end of the lamp wires is a white connector. Inside of this are two metal pins, what is the tool used to remove these pins, and what is the tool used to crimp the pins onto the wires. David Wetmore Light tech at sea ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050814132607.00cf9508 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:26:07 From: CB Subject: Re: Audio Power Sequencer >> I'm sorry, what's the argument against having a sound guy actually in the >> building when sound gear is on? > >Money. Sounds good in theory, but we all know that it costs more to continually replace gear (or users, if the gear isn't replaced) htan it does to adequately protect it with skilled labor inthe first place. The argument that we cannot afford skilled operators is called, "Jumping over dollars to get to dimes". Or it could just be that I'm a sound guy... This argument that janitors are equal to stagehands is deadly and expensive. Cost vs. benefit analysis that includes the quality of the performance will *always* bear this out. Of course, if no one really cares about the quality of the product, why spend the money on great gear in the first place? OTOH, why did everyone let me get away with 'thier' twice? Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050814132831.00cf9508 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:28:31 From: CB Subject: Re: Turntable Shmurmtable > >Does that mean we have to use the co-efficent of friction, rather than rolling >resistance to calculate HP? Nope, torque calqs. The corner of the flat side to the center of the caster multiplied by the weight of the turntable (loaded) divided by number of casters. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Greg Williams Subject: Re: Grid System (On behalf of Bill Sapsis) Part Two Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:40:30 -0400 One more forward on behalf of the esteemed Mr. Sapsis: ********************************** << Jonathon (and I) wrote... Unka Bill wrote: Is this grid part of a typical fly house with counterweight system? Or is it a black box with a need for lighting positions overhead? A combination of the two? Or maybe something completely different? Answer: The grid system will be in a black box space. About 17-20' above floor height, approx 4-6' below structural steel. The space is because of overhead ventilation duct. No overhead rigging except the occasional set piece for a show. No permanent fly system. Also the grid size will be 42' x 63' just to add a little more information. >> >> >> Pipe. What you need is pipe. And lots of it. 1.5" schedule 40 black pipe. Yup. The kind plumbers use. Hang it from your ceiling, after you've gotten a load rating on the ceiling..of course, using 1/4" aircraft cable, or, if you're feeling a little more affluent, 1/4" proof coil chain. There's no reason to re-invent the wheel or to turn something as simple as a grid into a 3-act play. And that's what the Uni-Strut will do. First you will need the right kind of connector. Then it's the spring bolts. Then it's the splices. Lordy, it do get complicated. Go with the pipe. It'll be easy to install and you'll have time for a beer on the back deck at sundown. Hope that helps. Bill S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:45:33 +0100 (BST) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Audio Power Sequencer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: On Sun, 14 Aug 2005, CB wrote: > Sounds good in theory, but we all know that it costs more to continually > replace gear (or users, if the gear isn't replaced) htan it does to Ah... Chris... you know you've been trapped here.... the point is they WON'T replace the gear! And that's why they want to protect it ;-) > about the quality of the product, why spend the money on great gear in the > first place? If they spent money on GOOD gear then they wouldn't have to protect it with a silly power sequencer (or one would already have been included in the design...) You just can't escape the logic of extreme cheapness... > OTOH, why did everyone let me get away with 'thier' twice? We wanted to see if you'd do it again ;-) Charlie ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20050814134709.029d0900 [at] 192.168.0.13> Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:51:19 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Audio Power Sequencer In-Reply-To: References: At 06:26 AM 8/14/2005, you wrote: >Sounds good in theory, but we all know that it costs more to continually >replace gear (or users, if the gear isn't replaced) htan it does to >adequately protect it with skilled labor inthe first place. The argument >that we cannot afford skilled operators is called, "Jumping over dollars to >get to dimes". >Or it could just be that I'm a sound guy... Nope, it's that you can plan ahead. >This argument that janitors are equal to stagehands is deadly and >expensive. And common. >Cost vs. benefit analysis that includes the quality of the >performance will *always* bear this out. Ah, but you're looking too far into the future. One quarter (3 months) is all you get. Maybe a year in some cases. >Of course, if no one really cares >about the quality of the product, why spend the money on great gear in the >first place? So they can SAY they have great gear. It doesn't actually have to work right, they wouldn't know the difference anyway. I once did sound FX in a theatre that bragged about their great mixer and amps. Yep, they were nice looking and expensive...and hooked to the FOH speakers with zip-cord from Radio Shack (all the way from the racks in the booth). You may scream now, CB. :) -- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:57:37 +0100 (BST) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Audio Power Sequencer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005, Jerry Durand wrote: > looking and expensive...and hooked to the FOH speakers with zip-cord from > Radio Shack (all the way from the racks in the booth). You may scream now, Well, RS zip cord is just as good as anyone else's.. what gauge was it and how far was the run? and what impedance was the FOH system? ;-) It may have been able to carry 3/4 of the potential power to the loudspeakers! Charlie ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: <903836C2-4213-4069-9E4F-7FB251873879 [at] interstellar.com> From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Audio Power Sequencer Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:05:08 -0700 On Aug 14, 2005, at 1:57 PM, Charlie Richmond wrote: > > Well, RS zip cord is just as good as anyone else's.. Well...maybe. > what gauge was it and how far was the run? and what impedance was > the FOH system? ;-) 18 ga, and the run was probably close to 100' by the time you went up, across the house, and to the speakers. I don't remember the impedance, but they were running something like 600W x two amps. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:22:24 +0100 (BST) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Audio Power Sequencer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005, Jerry Durand wrote: >> what gauge was it and how far was the run? and what impedance was the FOH >> system? ;-) > > 18 ga, and the run was probably close to 100' by the time you went up, across > the house, and to the speakers. I don't remember the impedance, but they > were running something like 600W x two amps. So according to this site: http://www.cirris.com/testing/resistance/wire.html a run of 100ft of 18ga has 0.64 ohms in each conductor for a total of 1.28 ohms in the loop. If the cluster is 16 ohms, then 1.28/17.28 or 7.40740741% of the power will be lost in the wire. If it's 8 ohms then 1.28/9.28 or 13.7931034% will be lost. If it's 4 ohms there will be 24.2424242% lost. I'm not at all trying to minimise the inadvisability of using zip cord and undersizing cable for these applications -- there will definitely be a serious loss of quality because the damping factor will be tremendously reduced (though that's probably not a huge factor with a cluster that is most likely somewhat equalized) and clusters are rarely 4 ohms but if it is, 900W will still be getting to it, which is probably way more than enough for more purposes given that clusters are usually pretty efficient. If it was Bose, all bets are off anyway ;-) Charlie ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1208.64.28.49.108.1124067146.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 17:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Audio Power Sequencer From: "Bill Nelson" > > a run of 100ft of 18ga has 0.64 ohms in each conductor for a total of 1.28 > ohms > in the loop. If the cluster is 16 ohms, then 1.28/17.28 or 7.40740741% of > the power will be lost in the wire. If it's 8 ohms then 1.28/9.28 or > 13.7931034% will be lost. If it's 4 ohms there will be 24.2424242% lost. How much power will get to the speakers is only part of the concern. The main worry would be how much the zip cord can safely dissipate. For example, if a single pair of wires is fed with 600 watts of power, can the cord dissipate 150 watts? Or will the insulation get hot enough that the conductors can migrate. Bill ------------------------------ From: "holyoak1" Subject: Moving Lights Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:48:21 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We are planning to upgrade from 4 Cyberlites LX and 12 leko's to 12 newer moving light fixtures. I am sure everyone has at least one opinion as to which light is better. Some as to cost and some as to features. Can anyone offer any guidance and some ideas about one vs. the other? Price is always an issue but I would like to know what people think is better without price being a second consideration. . Kenneth H. Holyoak Information+Insight=Profit HIG, LLC Mail POB 68633 Indianapolis IN 46268-0633 UPS 1508 E 86th Street Suite 177 Indianapolis IN 46240 ken [at] kenholyoak.com 317-253-7000 FAX 317-255-3708 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <26101868.1124077130143.JavaMail.root [at] elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 23:38:50 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: seanrmc [at] earthlink.net Reply-To: seanrmc [at] earthlink.net Subject: Re: Moving Lights What are you doing with them? What sort of venue? Who's responsible for maintaining them (skill level)? I think more information about your situation will get you much better suggestions.... --Sean Sean R. McCarthy seanrmc [at] earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: holyoak1 Sent: Aug 14, 2005 10:48 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Moving Lights For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- We are planning to upgrade from 4 Cyberlites LX and 12 leko's to 12 newer moving light fixtures. I am sure everyone has at least one opinion as to which light is better. Some as to cost and some as to features. Can anyone offer any guidance and some ideas about one vs. the other? Price is always an issue but I would like to know what people think is better without price being a second consideration. . Kenneth H. Holyoak Information+Insight=Profit HIG, LLC Mail POB 68633 Indianapolis IN 46268-0633 UPS 1508 E 86th Street Suite 177 Indianapolis IN 46240 ken [at] kenholyoak.com 317-253-7000 FAX 317-255-3708 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 00:08:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Moving Lights From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Well. Where are you and what are you using them for? I love the cybers because they are so fast. But I love vari*lite for their optics and their zoom. Tell us more about your needs and the kinds of shows you do. On 8/14/05 10:48 PM, "holyoak1" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > We are planning to upgrade from 4 Cyberlites LX and 12 leko's to 12 newer > moving light fixtures. I am sure everyone has at least one opinion as to > which light is better. Some as to cost and some as to features. > > Can anyone offer any guidance and some ideas about one vs. the other? > > Price is always an issue but I would like to know what people think is > better without price being a second consideration. > . > > > > > > > > > Kenneth H. Holyoak > Information+Insight=Profit > HIG, LLC > > Mail > POB 68633 > > Indianapolis IN 46268-0633 > > UPS > > 1508 E 86th Street Suite 177 > Indianapolis IN 46240 > > > > ken [at] kenholyoak.com > > > > 317-253-7000 FAX 317-255-3708 > > > > > > > -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 07:33:48 +0100 (BST) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Audio Power Sequencer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005, Bill Nelson wrote: > example, if a single pair of wires is fed with 600 watts of power, can the > cord dissipate 150 watts? Or will the insulation get hot enough that the Over 100 feet? That's 1.5W per foot. No problem at all. Sending 450 watts to the loudspeaker continuously will cause considerably more damage to the speaker and the audience's ears. Charlie ------------------------------ Message-ID: <621d2eb005081502457ed416b6 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 05:45:57 -0400 From: Joseph Champelli Subject: Re: Grid System (On behalf of Bill Sapsis) Part Two In-Reply-To: References:

Point your contractor towards rota-locks. Remember 1.5" sched. 40 pipe (1.6" ID 1.9" OD) rota-locks are easy to use and allow you to create a grid of pipe that will be very rigid and yet offer flexibility if you need to add or remove sections of pipe. go here for a picture of a rota-lcok:=20 http://www.stage-n-studio.com/Cat_PDF_pages/page19.pdf here for a price: http://spike.pnta.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=3DPROD&Product_Code=3DU= RL11%2F2&Category_Code=3DFH&Product_Count=3D10 Joe --=20 Joseph Champelli University of Tennessee FTSI --- --- Mr Sapsis wrote: >...There's no reason to re-invent the wheel or to turn something as > simple as a > grid into a 3-act play. And that's what the Uni-Strut will do. > First you > will need the right kind of connector. Then it's the spring bolts. > Then > it's the splices. Lordy, it do get complicated. >=20 > Go with the pipe. It'll be easy to install and you'll have time for > a beer > on the back deck at sundown. >=20 > Hope that helps. > Bill S. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #489 *****************************