Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 24453160; Sat, 27 Aug 2005 03:01:24 -0700 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #501 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 03:00:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on prxy.net X-Spam-Level: X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #501 1. Re: Chorus line research by "C. Dopher" 2. Re: Chorus Line the new version another discussion thread by "C. Dopher" 3. Re: Chorus Line the new version another discussion thread by "C. Dopher" 4. Intellectual property (was Re: Chorus line research) by "C. Dopher" 5. Re: Chorus Line the new version another discussion thread by Scott Parker 6. Re: Intellectual property (was Re: Chorus line research) by Scott Parker 7. Re: Intellectual property (was Re: Chorus line research) by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 8. more from stones concert in boston by Jennie and Jerry Gorrell 9. Painted Chrismas Scrim for Christmas Carol Farce by "hick7957" 10. Re: Painted Chrismas Scrim for Christmas Carol Farce by "Donald Robert Fox" 11. A chorus line by Herrick Goldman 12. Re: Chorus Line the new version another discussion thread by Gregg Carville 13. Re: Chorus Line the new version another discussion thread by Herrick Goldman 14. update on station club fire from the AP by Jennie and Jerry Gorrell 15. chorus line original console by Judy *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:00:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Chorus line research From: "C. Dopher" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: On 8/25/05 10:03 AM, "Herrick Goldman" wrote: > > On 8/25/05 9:43 AM, "John McKernon" wrote: > > >> >> It's also illegal to copy anyone's design... If you recreate Tharon's >> lighting, the producers owe her a royalty for each performance. >> >> - John > > This is true. And while I intend to recreate the look of the show as per the > producer's request the cues and timing will come from me. > > As I said it's an intellectual exercise and the 3 venues are not exactly > well equipped. I have a feeling that once I start drafting the plot that > most of the angles, equipment, and other elements will change to fit the > realities of the road houses and the time restrictions. But I do want to > know what the goal is and try to achieve it as best I can. > > I have found in my research a number of university productions and > professional productions where the playbill references Tharon's design such > as "lighting design based on original by Tharon Musser" obviously they may > have sought permission or have done it without her knowledge and been in the > wrong. But this is why I'm looking into it now and asking questions before > hand. I hate begging for forgiveness later. I'm not certain union design contracts worked that way back then. However, Tharon will receive a cut of every performance of Chorus Line done anywhere: she owns part of it. She was the first designer to say, "Instead of my usual fee, give me a cut of the show." 'Twas a good gamble. Cris Dopher ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:03:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Chorus Line the new version another discussion thread From: "C. Dopher" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: On 8/25/05 11:39 AM, "Herrick Goldman" wrote: > > A faithful reproduction of the original > > Or > > A newer updated version incorporating scrollers, moving lights, etc... I've seen ACL a dozen times, in houses large and small. It has ALWAYS been better when the design consciously took a very back seat (i.e. Was almost nonexistent) and let the show and the actors do their stuff. ACL is a show too easily screwed up by the fancy stuff we CAN throw at it. JMHO. Cris Dopher ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:07:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Chorus Line the new version another discussion thread From: "C. Dopher" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <90d9c99805082509295216f742 [at] mail.gmail.com> On 8/25/05 12:29 PM, "Scott Parker" wrote: > Interesting to note: in the current issue of the Theatrical Index, > Tharon Musser is listed as LD for the upcoming B'way revival. I wonder if the original assistant will be assisting...I'll have to call him. BTW, if anyone has the original plot and paperwork, it'll be him. But until I ask him, I can't publish his name and number here. > Personally, I did ACL last year and use just a few moving lights along > with several scrollers. I didn't have the equipment to give each > person a spot special, but used the moving lights to do so. > The scrollers were used only for the "inner thought" times. Otherwise, > worklight was represented (stylized.) My understanding of Tharon's plot was that it was limited in scope - about 65 units IIRC - and that she went from white to lavenders for the inner monologue stuff -- and that the lavs were focused a couple feet to one side of the white stuff, making a literal shift of time/space/memory. Trey clever. > I'm with you Herrick, I didn't wish to change much... Except that you did use scrollers and moving lights....? Cris Dopher ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:19:25 -0400 Subject: Intellectual property (was Re: Chorus line research) From: "C. Dopher" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: On 8/25/05 7:39 PM, "Tony Deeming" wrote: > Trying to justify a comment like "It's also illegal to copy anyone's design" > on the same forum as I've heard "You HAVE to do this play in EXACTLY that > way or you'll be in trouble with the author/copyrighter" seems a little > humorous! > And how can anyone in a different theatre with different instruments be > accused of stealing the lighting plot for the majority of shows? OK, there > will be some set pieces, (eg the 3 banks of aircraft lights with scrollers > on left, right & back of Saigon spring to mind) but am I stealing design if > I use something similar because I saw the show 10 years ago and remember it > looked good so I use a memory? > Remember that plagiary is the sincerest form of compliment (or summat like > that!). This is a sticky area of design, admittedly. I have been complimented when venues chose to keep my plot in the air because they loved my template washes or sidelight color or whatnot. But if I walk in two later and find another show using my light cues - I get pissed. It's pretty easy to spot when somebody saw a work and set out deliberately to re-create what they saw without getting permission / giving due credit to the original designer. Admittedly, I was more bothered by this in grad school, where creativity in problem solving was emphasized and I did not like having my solutions stolen. But in the real world...it hardly matters, I suppose. Still, plagiary is not flattery when its coming from laziness and lack of skillz. Cris Dopher ------------------------------ Message-ID: <90d9c9980508260823742d6df7 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:23:09 -0400 From: Scott Parker Subject: Re: Chorus Line the new version another discussion thread In-Reply-To: References: <90d9c99805082509295216f742 [at] mail.gmail.com> Yes, Cris. Indeed, I used scrollers and moving lights. The moving lights were used as refocusable specials and the scrollers were used to make that slight shift in color. Oh, lest I forget, the moving lights were also used as a teaching tools for the dozen, or students, learning about moving lights, while being given a show without glitz. Same for the scrollers. The visual presentation to the audience was much simpler then the technology used. In fact, now that I think about it, I did have a moving light sequence. A series of back light shots on each actor during the scene when the directors explains what the process will be. The only reason I had the rear mounted moving light go from actor to actor was to help a, very young, frontlight operator hit the correct actor at the correct time. Just because I had all this technology didn't mean that I wanted the audience to wowed by it. I hope this clarifies my previous statements. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Scott > > Personally, I did ACL last year and use just a few moving lights along > > with several scrollers. I didn't have the equipment to give each > > person a spot special, but used the moving lights to do so. > > I'm with you Herrick, I didn't wish to change much... >=20 > Except that you did use scrollers and moving lights....? >=20 > Cris Dopher >=20 >=20 --=20 Take care, Scott =09Scott C. Parker =09Professor/Technical Director =09Dept. of Performing Arts =09Dyson College of Arts and Sciences [at] Pace University =09Office/shipping: 41 Park Row, 1205F =09Mailing: 1 Pace Plaza=20 =09New York, NY 10038 =09212-346-1423 Fax: 914-989-8425 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <90d9c99805082608321c506384 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:32:03 -0400 From: Scott Parker Subject: Re: Intellectual property (was Re: Chorus line research) In-Reply-To: References: Cris, I agree completely here. when faced with the same situation of being asked to leave the light plot, I always do. However, I will usually delete the cues from the board and the backup disk. This technique of being generous with the plot, while explaining that the queuing is mine, has often led to further employment. Just always make sure that your phone number and contact information is on the plot that you've left behind. Scott On 8/26/05, C. Dopher wrote: > This is a sticky area of design, admittedly. I have been complimented wh= en > venues chose to keep my plot in the air because they loved my template > washes or sidelight color or whatnot. But if I walk in two later and fin= d > another show using my light cues - I get pissed. I suppose. Still, > plagiary is not flattery when its coming from laziness and lack of skillz= . >=20 > Cris Dopher >=20 >=20 --=20 Take care, Scott =09Scott C. Parker =09Professor/Technical Director =09Dept. of Performing Arts =09Dyson College of Arts and Sciences [at] Pace University =09Office/shipping: 41 Park Row, 1205F =09Mailing: 1 Pace Plaza=20 =09New York, NY 10038 =09212-346-1423 Fax: 914-989-8425 ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Intellectual property (was Re: Chorus line research) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:37:47 -0400 Message-ID: <000501c5aa54$1c806b00$6601a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > I agree completely here. when faced with the same situation > of being asked to leave the light plot, I always do. I don't much care if people use my plot, because the plot is no more a lighting design than a Rand-McNally map is a highway. It's what the designer *does* with the plot that counts. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050826105402.0208d568 [at] mail.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:56:05 -0700 From: Jennie and Jerry Gorrell Subject: more from stones concert in boston not exactly theatrical but interesting AP Story Fenway Turf Damage Delays Red Sox Game August 26, 2005 10:03 AM EDT BOSTON - Was it the Rolling Stones or wild horses that roamed center field at Fenway Park for a couple of nights? The Boston Red Sox delayed the start of Friday's game against Detroit by an hour, to 8:05 p.m., to give the grounds crew time to repair the sod ripped up during two Rolling Stones concerts this week. The crew worked through the night to repair the damage caused by the band's massive center field stage. Red Sox spokesman Charles Steinberg said a "significant area" of center field was affected. The team also wants to give players time to test the field and report any uneven areas. Steinberg said the crew has worked overnight to repair the field following shows staged at the park the last two years - Jimmy Buffett last year and Bruce Springsteen in 2003. The team almost delayed the start of the game following the Buffett show last year. Steinberg said more of the field was affected this year. Steinberg did not have a precise figure on how much money the team made during the Rolling Stones shows Sunday and Tuesday, but said it was in the seven-figure range. The shows are a benefit, he said, "as long as it doesn't affect the integrity of the game." Jerry Gorrell ------------------------------ From: "hick7957" Subject: Painted Chrismas Scrim for Christmas Carol Farce Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 17:06:01 -0500 Message-id: <430f9249.25c.fd4.7688 [at] fredonia.edu> Hey everyone, Before I go into my request, I'd like to thank the administrators (I assume they read these) for providing this forum to help communication amongst the theatre community. I'm sure that it will be a big help for me as I start to move into this business. And now, the interesting stuff. I am the technical director for the SUNY Fredonia production of "The Farndale Avenue Housing Estate Townswomen's Guild Dramatic Society's Production of 'A Christmas Carol.'" Basically, it's just a farce of 'A Christmas Carol.' The script calls for a scrim to be painted with a christmas card image to hang at the back of the stage. Before I go out to buy scrim for the scene painter to paint, I wanted to see if there was a possibility for me to rent one of this description. It would need to be at least 18 feet wide by 12 feet high. The designer is looking for an image of a snow covered london street, or a snow cover town, or something along those lines. If anyone has any information about where I could find such a item, please let me know. Thank you, Justin Hicks Theatrical Technician SUNY Fredonia ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Donald Robert Fox" Subject: RE: Painted Chrismas Scrim for Christmas Carol Farce Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 22:10:49 +0000

You should take a look at Tobins Lake




Donald Robert Fox, M.F.A.
USA-AEA-IALD
Asst. Professor of Design
University of the Incarnate Word
Dept. of Theatre Arts

From:  "hick7957" <hick7957 [at] fredonia.edu>
Reply-To:  "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
To:  "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
Subject:  Painted Chrismas Scrim for Christmas Carol Farce
Date:  Fri, 26 Aug 2005 17:06:01 -0500
For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Hey everyone,
     Before I go into my request, I'd like to thank the
administrators (I assume they read these) for providing this
forum to help communication amongst the theatre community.
I'm sure that it will be a big help for me as I start to
move into this business.
     And now, the interesting stuff. I am the technical
director for the SUNY Fredonia production of "The Farndale
Avenue Housing Estate Townswomen's Guild Dramatic Society's
Production of 'A Christmas Carol.'" Basically, it's just a
farce of 'A Christmas Carol.' The script calls for a scrim
to be painted with a christmas card image to hang at the
back of the stage. Before I go out to buy scrim for the
scene painter to paint, I wanted to see if there was a
possibility for me to rent one of this description. It would
need to be at least 18 feet wide by 12 feet high. The
designer is looking for an image of a snow covered london
street, or a snow cover town, or something along those
lines. If anyone has any information about where I could
find such a item, please let me know.

Thank you,
   Justin Hicks
   Theatrical Technician
   SUNY Fredonia
------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 18:29:18 -0400 Subject: A chorus line From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: Folks, Steve Terry sent this to me and requested I post it to the list: ------ Forwarded Message From: Steve Terry Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:15:35 -0500 To: Subject: A Chorus Line Hi Herrick-- I tried to email this to the list, but it bounced, so I'm sending direct to you: Probably the most knowledgeable person about the Chorus Line plot and color choices is Richard Winkler. He was Tharon's assistant on the original production, and he has re-created the design many times around the world. He would be a good person to talk to. As to using moving lights on A Chrous Line, that's a good possibility, as long as one never sees them move, IMHO. Focusing the Mondrian (all those colored squares), and the "Thought Lights" (very tightly shuttered downlights, one for each person on the line) was a real root-canal that could probably be made much easer with automated fixtures. In addition, many of the hardest followspot pickups could be done with automated fixtures. Finally, the followspots. They were truly art! Their success came from: --A very high angle on a close bridge to keep them out out the mirrors upstage --The use of 1000W tungsten followspots (Strong Trouperette III's) boosted to 132V for brightness and Autotransformer dimmers for very smooth and subtle fade-ins and fade-outs. The 132V operation caused many unexpected burnouts, so there was a fourth followspot on the bridge that operators could dive for in case of a burnout! The units were all underhung on ball-bearing mounts for precision. --Three of the best operators in New York (Mike Lynn, Steve Altman, and Ronnie I-forget-his-last-name) that could do tight headshot blind pickups in total blackout with an accuracy of about 2 inches. I don't subscribe to this list anymore, but please feel free to ask ACL questions. You can email me at sterry [at] etcconnect.com. Cheers, Steve Terry ------ End of Forwarded Message -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ Message-ID: <2c0e151605082616074bda6c35 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 19:07:23 -0400 From: Gregg Carville Subject: Re: Chorus Line the new version another discussion thread In-Reply-To: References: <90d9c99805082509295216f742 [at] mail.gmail.com> I find this whole conversation revolving around ACl very interesting. Thank you Herrick for giving us a little intellectual spark. (not that other conversations aren't, but this one has hit a chord on a number of levels) Anyway I have always been a fan of "new" designs, as often a show can not be truly duplicated. I used to do a lot of summer stock where we did all the standards, including ACL, & Oklahoma, and we ran into a few delimnas. On occasion we would have a director show up with a video tape and say "Here, this is the show" So we all were supposed to duplicate the design, set, lights, costumes, etc from a video. Fortunately I was able to say "The quality of the video is such that I can not duplicate lighting from it" and then I did my thing. But at the time (just out of undergrad) I certainly wasn't up on design copyright or any ideas like that. I just took it as the sign of a director who lacked creativity. Our more memorable shows often were ones where the designers, actors and director were able to create something from scratch. All this in the constraints of 2 week stock. (it still gives me shivers thinking of the stupid things we did on very little sleep.) Anyway, now I am at a place where I can turn down anyone who approaches me with a video or a request to duplicate a show. Not that I think a complete rehash of a show is not without merit. I would love to see a truly duplicated ACL just from the historical perspective, but I imagine that most of the audience (and the producers) just want to duplicate it because they know it was good then, and presume it will be good (and a safer bet) then doing something new. Sort of the same deal with the trend of movies to B'way.=20 FWIW, Gregg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 19:40:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Chorus Line the new version another discussion thread From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Greg and others, Glad you are enjoying the exercise. I too am 99% a fan of creating the show from scratch. I rarely want to know how it was done before. In fact I am about to do Urinetown and ran into a Broadway stagehand who said "stay away from those darn Flourescents" Oddly enough I had never seen the show but during a design conference (in a comic book store) Dimmable florescents did come up. Now I was mad that he had said it. I hadn't wanted to know. The funny thing is I was a student of Billy Mintzer and Brian MacDevitt and I find that my choices are frequently similar to those made by Brian (who designed Urinetown) and who had Billy as a teacher before he started teaching as well. I designed Side Show last year and only after the show had closed, did I go see the video at NYPL. I found the design choices for the Broadway show to be drastically different from my own but I often wonder if Brian had the opportunity to re-design Side Show now, (when he has settled further into his own style) would he have done it in a similar way. I have yet to be able to bend his ear on this topic. I appreciate all the Chorus line feedback and if I keep getting this quality of information I may indeed collate it into some sort of article or Blog. Especially with the approach of ACL2006. Thanks folks. _herrick On 8/26/05 7:07 PM, "Gregg Carville" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I find this whole conversation revolving around ACl very interesting. > Thank you Herrick for giving us a little intellectual spark. (not that > other conversations aren't, but this one has hit a chord on a number > of levels) > > Anyway I have always been a fan of "new" designs, as often a show can > not be truly duplicated. I used to do a lot of summer stock where we > did all the standards, including ACL, & Oklahoma, and we ran into a > few delimnas. On occasion we would have a director show up with a > video tape and say "Here, this is the show" So we all were supposed to > duplicate the design, set, lights, costumes, etc from a video. -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20050826195634.02059d60 [at] mail.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:00:12 -0700 From: Jennie and Jerry Gorrell Subject: update on station club fire from the AP R.I. Fire Defendants Want Charges Tossed August 26, 2005 9:04 PM EDT PROVIDENCE, R.I. - The owners of a nightclub where 100 people died in a fast-moving fire in 2003 asked a judge Friday to throw out manslaughter charges against them. A motion seeking partial dismissal of counts against Michael and Jeffrey Derderian, owners of The Station nightclub in West Warwick, says the deaths were accidental and did not constitute manslaughter. The motion also says the entire indictment should be thrown out because grand jurors who returned the charges repeatedly missed testimony and were absent for portions of the proceedings. The grand jury indicted the Derderian brothers and Dan Biechele, former tour manager for the rock band Great White, on 200 counts of involuntary manslaughter stemming from the February 2003 fire. The blaze, triggered by a pyrotechnics display during a Great White performance, ignited foam that the nightclub had used as soundproofing and quickly spread. One hundred people died, many of them trapped in the building, and about 200 others were injured. Half of the 200 involuntary manslaughter counts in the indictment allege criminal negligence; the other half deal with misdemeanor manslaughter. The papers filed Friday specifically seek dismissal of the 100 counts of misdemeanor manslaughter. Attorney General Patrick Lynch said Friday he would challenge the request. The defense motion says the Derderians were not given fair notice, despite inspections by professional fire and building officials, that the flammable foam they installed violated state fire codes. The brothers did not put up the foam in a criminally negligent manner and could not have known they were violating the law, the motion argues. Biechele also filed a motion Friday seeking to have manslaughter charges dismissed. jerry gorrell ------------------------------ Message-ID: <431028DF.9080400 [at] post.tau.ac.il> Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 10:48:31 +0200 From: Judy Subject: chorus line original console > > > I did, however, >>use an ETC Express! Getting the original board (I believe the actual >>one lives in a tech museum in Boston, I think) was out of the >>question;-) > I saw it about 10 years ago in Boston in the computer museum (which, I've been told, is no longer there?) They also had a sample of the cue sheets at the exhibit, I think. ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #501 *****************************