Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 24964446; Thu, 06 Oct 2005 03:01:06 -0700 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #541 Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 03:00:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on prxy.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.4 X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #541 1. Re: Fire Fighting Practice by "Peter Scheu" 2. Re: Source 4 lens question by "Jon Ares" 3. Fire fighting practices by "Dougherty, Jim" 4. Re: fire curtain law report by "Bill Conner" 5. Re: Fires by Loren Schreiber 6. Re: Steel Magnolias Shop Chairs by Steve Larson 7. Zero Throw casters by Chris Wych 8. (was none - but call it stagehand firefighters) by "Bill Conner" 9. Re: building regulation ( an offshoot of Re: fire curtain laws) by "Bill Conner" 10. reformatted repost of Re: thoughts about a lighting designer job description by David O Tidwell 11. Grad school and GREs by "Zirngibl, Ryan John" 12. Re: Grad school and GREs by "Secore, Scott" 13. Re: Fire Fighting Practice by Mick Alderson 14. Excellent Job Posting by "Ehrenberg, Steven" 15. tour P S M by IAEG [at] aol.com 16. flame resistant plastic sheeting by Bill Schaffell 17. Re: Fire Retardant Curtains by "RD" 18. Re: 3 phase 4 wire system question by Daniel Kelly 19. Re: Fire fighting practices by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 20. Re: (was none - but call it stagehand firefighters) by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 21. Re: 3 phase 4 wire system question by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 22. Re: 3 phase 4 wire system question by John Bracewell 23. Re: 3 phase 4 wire system question by Bruce Purdy 24. Re: ticket software (a bit off topic, but I need some help) by "Brian Busch" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Reply-To: From: "Peter Scheu" Subject: RE: Fire Fighting Practice Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:37:57 -0400 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: In-reply-to: Stuart Wheaton wrote: >Perhaps not, but I believe we owe it to our patrons to give=20 >them as much time as possible to get out, and so we should=20 >learn how to fight a small fire, and we should fight them Though I don't totally disagree with the general premise of your = argument, I think it is human nature that people will stick around because they = think the situation is under control (whether it is or not), on top of their natural curiosity. Someone is in the "fight", so no need for "flight"... I'm doing a bit of research on the history of theatre fires for an = upcoming ESTA LDI session and obviously have been re-reading about Chicago's = infamous Iroquois Theatre fire in 1903 that killed over 600 people. One of the = many things that happened there that contributed to the huge loss of life was that when the fire started on stage (small at the beginning), stagehands = and the house fireman attempted to put it out, while the audience was told = to remain in their seats. By the time everyone realized it was too late = (which was VERY quick - all the scenery was totally engulfed in under two = minutes), the die was cast. Yes, there were many other contributing factors to the disaster = (untreated scenery, no sprinklers, non-functioning standpipes, sealed smoke vents, locked or blocked exits, no exit signs, untrained ushers, fire curtain failure, etc., etc., etc.). IMHO, the first and foremost rule is GET OUT! ...NOW! ...quickly and quietly. Period. If in the process of evacuation, the opportunity arises = for a fully trained and competent person to attempt to safely and fully extinguish a small fire, fine. Have at it. I'll meet you outside... Peter Scheu =20 Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Syracuse, NY www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001901c5c9ad$d3a3cde0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Source 4 lens question Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 06:08:06 -0700 > What happens if the lens is put in "backwards", The light goes out the other direction. ;) - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:17:43 -0400 Subject: Fire fighting practices From: "Dougherty, Jim" Message-ID: Disclaimer: I'm a volunteer firefighter in rural New England, but don't claim to be an expert because I would be very, very wrong. That being said... Stuart Wheaton wrote, regarding when to quit fighting a fire: 1. The fire services arrive and take over. 2. We put the thing out, and the fire service arrives to verify that. 3. We get the all clear from FOH that everybody is out. 4. We use up all available means to fight the fire. 5. We are in danger of losing our safe egress from the area. I would put at the top of the list quitting the moment the scene became unsafe. That's a rule the FF's use as well, although the definition of unsafe changes when considering a stagehand in street clothes with little or no training, and a trained and certified firefighter in turnout gear and SCBA. If you have the hoses on a rack on the wall, or extinguishers, they really should not be used by anyone not trained in how to use them. Hoses under pressure behave in ways strange to anyone not trained in their use - all that "equal and opposite reaction" stuff. Extinguishers last a very short time, and for them to work you need to know how to make the best use of that time. If you've never used the hose or extinguisher on the wall, a live fire is definitely not the place to learn. If they've never been used or inspected, how do you know they'll work? Etc. etc. The best defense against a theater fire is a properly installed and maintained sprinkler system. No lights hang from the pipes, no scenery or costumes or stored materials block the sprinkler heads, that sort of thing. Maintenance should be done by folks trained in the procedure. As a FF, I want to arrive on scene to find for certain that nobody is in the building. Certainty can only come from proper drills, so that a head count can be taken. A house with four residents is a lot easier to check than a four-theater arts complex. If there are people inside everything changes; not only do FF's risk their lives on search and rescue, but the very way the fire is fought changes to give those inside the best chance to live. Anyway, you make your own decisions about what to do in a fire based on trying to achieve the best possible outcome for people and property in that order. I've put out a few fires started when the welding sparks hit the drawing, or someone ground metal on the same machine used for wood, without calling the FD. They all involved quite a bit of water (a cheap and effective extinguishing agents) and making sure that anything remotely involved was out and cold to the touch. The saying goes, a fire's not out until it's cold and out. Plan, train and practice. Be careful, be safe. - Jim Dougherty ATD, Middlebury College ------------------------------ Message-ID: <004101c5c9b2$eda23740$6601a8c0 [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: re: fire curtain law report Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:44:31 -0500 In reference to Frank's post re: stage height, the fifty feet is measured from the lowest point of the stage floor to the highest point of the roof or floor deck above. The intent is the underside of the deck above and that it is how it is used in other places in codes and standards. Clearly it is not to bottom of steel. It is meant to include the volume of the compartment. Sprinklers are tested to be effective in room his high. (That doesn't mean they are not effective in taller rooms - only that they are tested in rooms this high with repeatable results.) If it were a rated floor assembly above that included drywall, it would be measured to the finished drywall. The fifty foot criteria replaced the "main curtain, valance, borders, legs, and a single backdrop" language and "retractable" of earlier codes which lead to inconsistent interpretations. I hope that clarifies it for you. Bill Conner ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.2.20051005064611.03867dc0 [at] mail.sdsu.edu> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 06:52:58 -0700 From: Loren Schreiber Subject: Re: Fires In-Reply-To: References: Having fought mock fires (with real flames!) in close spaces, courtesy of the US Navy, I can tell you that there is nothing quite as exciting as a brass nozzle at the end of a high-pressure hose when it has escaped its operator. Most people who have not handled a fire hose will not anticipate the writhing, twisting power of the hose as it charges. Imagine a five pound nozzle at the end of fifty feet of 1-1/2" hose at 100+ PSI. Oh! The places it will go! Loren "Grits" Schreiber, Technical Director School of Theatre, Television and Film San Diego State University Long Reach Long Riders announce dates for the 2006 Charity Ride. Check out www.lrlr.org for more information. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 09:50:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Steel Magnolias Shop Chairs From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I have a shampoo chair, shampoo sink, and two stylist chairs. I got the sink from a beauty shop and purchased the chairs online. I'm in Raleigh, so I doubt you want to handle the rental and shipping. Borrow from a local school or shop. I've also accumulated an older chair and a dryer just by doing a little leg work. Steve > From: "Steve" > Reply-To: "Stagecraft" > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:51:55 -0500 > To: "Stagecraft" > Subject: Steel Magnolias Shop Chairs > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Hey, > I am looking for two beauty shop chairs for Steel Magnolias. > Anybody have them to rent or sell? > I have been pricing new chairs and they aren't cheap. > Thanks in advance, > Steve Schepker > Southeastern Louisiana University ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20051005152424.98656.qmail [at] web34705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:24:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Wych Subject: Zero Throw casters Does anyone know a source of cheap zero throw casters? Im looking to caster up a 8' by 5' platform which will have 10-12' tall walls on it with a large castle door. So im guessing I'll need 4 casters. I've looked at BMI and Rosebrand and am hoping for somthing cheaper. I would build my own from the Tech Breifs book but I wont have access to a welder when I need them. Any help would be great. Thanks Chris Wych Indiana University Scenic Graduate Student a_small_idiot [at] yahoo.com ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ http://www.theatretechie.com ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <014501c5c9c0$ee54dd10$6601a8c0 [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: (was none - but call it stagehand firefighters) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:24:50 -0500 From CB's post: "delete most hoses and a lot of stand pipes and extinguishers and rely on fire service while everyone else simply gets out. Of course, that would lead to quite a few smll fires growing into conflagrations whilst the fire teams wended thier way aross town, instead of making heroes out of quick-witted stagehands. Or am I missing something?" Hard to determine. Any evidence seems strictly anecdotal. I've been intimately involved in three fires on stage I can recall - all lights on booms and legs. In two cases it was a mop bucket to the rescue and no fire service ever called. The third it was climb a ladder, cut the ties with a knife, and drag the flaming pile of leg outside where it promptly burst into flames and the fire department extinguished it in the parking lot. OK - at least some of us do behave well - but these were relatively small incidents (not withstanding the flames of the last one blackening a wood roof deck in an unsprinklered building) and handled without the use of hoses. As I stated, I continue to speak for retaining the hoses on stages but there is strong opposition in the fire service. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <014b01c5c9c2$25ac3b90$6601a8c0 [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: Re: building regulation ( an offshoot of Re: fire curtain laws) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:33:30 -0500 Jerry replied to my request for examples: "A very simple example with pyro is one agency requiring large signs announcing that this building contains explosives, while another agency requires you to NOT advertise that you have explosives." Fair enough and probably so. I'm guessing these are local government, not national codes or standards. It's true that when every local authority includes or amends with their favorite items things do get confusing. It's one reason why the national consensus codes and standards work so well having been vetted before a much wider audience than local ordinances. For instance, NFPA 101 and 1126 probably work together pretty well as do they with the IBC even if not the same. Bill ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: Subject: reformatted repost of Re: thoughts about a lighting designer job description Message-ID: From: David O Tidwell Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:53:55 -0500 David O Tidwell Assistant Professor of Theatre Design University of Nebraska, Kearney 2506 12th Ave. FAB 217 Kearney, Nebraska 68845 ************************************************** David -- The job description you attached came across rather garbled (see below)= . Send it again, please? -- Matt >********************************************* Sorry, I tried to check that it was only 72 characters long and plain text without formatting... I'll try again DT ********************************* Dear list folks, I am the Scenic and Lighting designer at a small (35 majors & minors) program at a Midwestern =A0University. =A0I have been requesting, for t= he last 6 years, a job description other than "and duties as assigned" because the previous program chair, dept chair and dean refused to give me anything in writing. =A0The following document was handed to me= and I was wondering what the academic and professional lighting design community thought of this job description for a faculty lighting design= position.I am a USA 829 scenic designer , have been in theatre for 25 years and have been in academia for about 14 years. If there are any= individuals willing to share their job descriptions with me or interested in sending me their thoughts, or more appropriate wording for this document to establish the lighting designer back in control of the design process, I would really appreciate a private e-mail at thespis99 [at] gmail.com. BTW, the "master electrician" in this case is in a staff position outside of the theatre program, has no advanced degree, no academic training in the theatre lighting field and is commuting to a nearby university to t= ake his first "graduate lighting design class" and to my knowledge, his fir= st theatre lighting class of any kind. David O Tidwell ___________________________________________________________ THEATRE PROGRAM- LIGHTING 9.30.05 I. LIGHTING BUDGET AND ROLES/JOB RESPONSIBILITIES PER PRODUCTION The Theatre Program Head, in consultation with Theatre faculty and staff, will assign a lighting budget for each production and give final approval for all expenditures. THE LIGHTING DESIGNER: Will provide a light plot, indicating specific lighting needs to the Technical Director and Master Electrician. Will consider possible changes and/ or adjustments to lighting design based on the Technical Director's recommendations. After the initial light hang and focus, will =A0review lighting elements and make recommendations for possible changes. After the initial light hang and focus, will =A0review lighting elements and make recommendations for possible changes. Will serve in supervisory capacity for students enrolled in lighting. THE TECHNICAL DIRECTOR: Responsibility: Based on a review of inventory, production budget, and consultation with the Master Electrician, will communicate suggestions or recommendations for lighting purchases to the lighting Designer. In consultation with the lighting Designer and Master Electrician, will give final approval for all production purchases. In consultation with lighting Designer and Master Electrician, is responsible for student work assignments and supervision. Curricular requirements are priority. Will set a production schedule for lighting implementation and strike. MASTER ELECTRICIAN Responsible for implementation of light hang, focus and strike. ***********************************************************************= ****** = ------------------------------ Subject: Grad school and GREs Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:01:27 -0500 Message-ID: <5CF1C3D95785A143A3E33ACFD864609B038345D1 [at] PEPSI.uwec.edu> From: "Zirngibl, Ryan John" =20 Hello, I ask the wisdom of the list for help in shaping my future once again. I'm graduating in May and am planning on going for my MFA in Scenic Design. I have no specific school in mind and was going to let fate and U/RTA help me decide where to go. I need help though, my advisor moved on to another school this past year and his position isn't going to be filled until next year and I don't know what I should be doing to prepare for grad school and the application process. Should I take the GRE exam? If so there is the general version and the subject version of the exam from what I'm reading online, which do I take? Should I apply to schools before U/RTA's NUIs? What else should I be doing to make sure that I'm ready and able to get into grad school? Any help you could give me would be greatly appreciated!=20 =20 Thanks in advance for the help! =20 Ryan J. Zirngibl ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Grad school and GREs Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:18:14 -0400 Message-ID: <346414591B50EE4299DB6686321B8CC701D2933F [at] FACSTAFF.facultystaff.eku.edu> From: "Secore, Scott" Ryan- More than likely you will have to take the GRE. It depends on the school however. Not all Theatre programs require it, but in many instances, the university will, regardless of what the program requires. In most cases, you will only need to take the General GRE, not a specialized subject GRE. The General GRE consists of English, Math, and an Analytical section. English and Math (combined score) are what usually counts when accepting students, although the Analytical section can play a role. The sooner you apply the better. If you are lacking certain bits of info (GRE scores for instance) more than likely the school will notify you to send them by a specific date, which means you can buy some time. Not recommending that, but still. I also highly recommend seeking a program that will supply you with a tuition waiver and assistantship. That makes it easier on your wallet. Trust me. :) How are your grades? Portfolio? Also things that will come up for sure. My .02 for the moment. I'm sure many others will supply you with wisdom and advice. Probably better than me :) -Scott TTS EKU ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:20:17 -0500 From: Mick Alderson Subject: Re: Fire Fighting Practice Message-id: <2a433170f58fc9be0da26194f06ab62c [at] uwosh.edu> Stuart Wheaton wrote: > A well maintained hose reel makes sense in the theatre, > since the theatre is one of the few places on campus where a > small easily extinguished fire may be discovered in a place > out of range of a normal extinguisher. > > Between the increased range and volume of water available, > the hose allows small fires to be reached and larger fires > to be attacked from a safer distance. Well, consider that a fire hose, even the 2" ones in the wall boxes, is a high pressure device, a water jet with the full pressure of your local water main behind it. When turned on, that hose tries to snap out straight, it whips around of not tightly controlled. It can pick you up and throw you if you aren't prepared and don't know how to handle it. It isn't just knowing where it aim the water, it is also knowing how to keep the hose under control. My sister was a volunteer fire fighter for many years. She was usually the safety officer, as she only weighs about 100+ lbs, but had to pass the same tests as the 300 lb. guys in the department to get her certification. The big guys thought is great fun to watch a hose throw her around, and she'd been trained how to handle it. If you have been trained how to handle such a hose, fine. But if you've never used a fire hose before (that probably includes most of us, myself for instance), then a real fire is probably not the time to learn. A fire hose is a professional tool, meant for professionals. Fire extinguishers are meant for use by amateurs, i.e. the building residents. If a fire extinguisher is not enough, it is probably wise to leave professional tools to the professionals. Trip the fire curtain and get everybody out. Mick Alderson TD, Fredric March Theatre University of Wisconsin Oshkosh alderson [at] uwosh.edu ------------------------------ Subject: Excellent Job Posting Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 13:24:20 -0500 Message-ID: <95E1F758C14A0248B42D6FC9D67C7C3204BF8169 [at] CCUMAIL14.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> From: "Ehrenberg, Steven" Passing this along for my good friends at the Broward Center. One of my favorite production people in the business is moving on and leaving a big vacancy. This is a great job for the right person. I am not hiring for this job just posting it; I would, however, be happy to answer questions off list from those interested Steven Steven Ehrenberg=20 Director of Technical Supervision=20 Clear Channel Entertainment - Theatrical=20 220 W 42nd St. 14th floor NY, NY 10036=20 Office 917 421 5461=20 Mobile 917 331 0207=20 Director of Production The Broward Center for the Performing Arts is looking for an experienced Director of Production to lead the Production Department. The Broward Center, a major performing arts complex located in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, houses a 2,688-seat opera house and a 590-seat theater, and presents over 750 performances per year ranging from Broadway and Off-Broadway shows to concerts, community events and family programming. Responsibilities include, but are not limited to: * Leading the Production Department staff in providing responsive, timely production and technical assistance and support to all internal and external clients. * Supervising all production and technical aspects of events. * Providing technical advance and/or supervision of advance for all events. * Providing creative opportunities to optimize revenue and reduce expenses. * Preparing and administering the production department budget making prudent decisions based on cost, necessity and timeliness. * Reviewing and authorizing all stagehand payrolls, production related invoices and event related expenses. * Overseeing maintenance of stage related projects and inventories. * Interpreting the IATSE union contract and acting as the BCPA liaison with the union house crew and IATSE Local 500. * Overseeing stagehand training, and maintaining and implementing safety standards. * Executing and supervising the daily schedule and activity of the stagehand crew including scheduling, delegating responsibilities, mediating grievances, hiring, training and discipline. * Providing, when necessary, stage management services for local productions. QUALIFICATIONS: * Able to lead and develop a cohesive and effective production and technical staff. * Knowledge of and skilled in all areas of theater, dance and concert production and processes. * Experience managing a fast paced technical production department in a large performing arts center or comparable operation/organization. * Knowledge of and skilled in management and implementation of union contracts. * Knowledge of computers and Windows based programs including Excel, Word and Outlook. * Able to work independently and as part of a team. * Able to provide excellent customer service. * Able to multitask effectively. * Skilled problem solver with experience resolving unexpected situations in a timely and efficient manner. * Able to communicate effectively at all levels of an organization, both verbally and in writing. * Able to work a flexible schedule including nights, weekends, and holidays on a regular basis. * 5-8 years technical production experience with 2-4 years supervisory experience. * College degree preferred. If you are an individual with outstanding leadership and management skills who is eager to become part of a progressive, performance oriented team, please submit a resume, list of references (3 minimum), and salary history to: dpsearch [at] browardcenter.org. (Word attachments to e-mails only). Preference will be given to local applicants. No Phone Calls Please. PACA encourages minority participation and is an Equal Opportunity Employer. Resumes received until position is filled. Salary is competitive and commensurate with experience. ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <36.7c02e52b.30757549 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 14:28:25 EDT Subject: tour P S M I am looking for a PSM for 6 week arena tour this Nov / Dec, , ( not for my show, , for someone else ) interested applicants can send me resume's etc, , very best, Keith Arsenault President IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida www.iaeginc.com www.circusnexus.org ------------------------------ Message-ID: <43443B7D.5070800 [at] earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 13:45:49 -0700 From: Bill Schaffell Subject: flame resistant plastic sheeting References: Ben, Try TDI in Santa Ana. They have made us FR HDPE plastic tubing in the past. 714-751-6782 Bill WJS Studios 909-986-2363 www.wjsStudios.com ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Fire Retardant Curtains Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 15:56:19 -0600 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My recommendation is to check them each year and keep records, very accurate. There are a lot of variables that say test every five years, despite AHJ's ... test to make sure. Total curtain, drapes, etc. doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Litterst Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 6:51 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Fire Retardant Curtains For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Kristi said: > --------------------------------------------------- In > my expereince, drapes are cleaned and re-flame retarded annually - if > that. > Most places do it every 3-5 years depending on what the manufacturer > says. > Check the lable on yours and see what it says. Our vendor/manufacturer says after 5 years they need to be tested annually and retreated if necessary. Our AHJ says we have to retreat every five years. Steve Litterst ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:45:47 -0400 From: Daniel Kelly Reply-To: Daniel Kelly Subject: Re: 3 phase 4 wire system question In-Reply-To: References: I don't know if this will help answer the question, but this illustration helped me understand three phase delta and the "wild leg" phenomenon. It's actually based on a drawing I saw on the door of an old Federal Pacific Stab-lok breaker panel that serves the machine shop in which I work. It does refer to the fourth wire as a neutral, and I would think this is proper, because if it were a ground, the voltage between the fourth wire and any phase would be 240, correct? http://limeking.com/delta.gif ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1b8.1d00261c.3075c0b4 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 19:50:12 EDT Subject: Re: Fire fighting practices In a message dated 05/10/05 14:20:03 GMT Daylight Time, jdougher [at] middlebury.edu writes: > If you have the hoses on a rack on the wall, or extinguishers, they really > should not be used by anyone not trained in how to use them. Hoses under > pressure behave in ways strange to anyone not trained in their use - all > that "equal and opposite reaction" stuff. Extinguishers last a very short > time, and for them to work you need to know how to make the best use of that > time. If you've never used the hose or extinguisher on the wall, a live > fire is definitely not the place to learn. If they've never been used or > inspected, how do you know they'll work? Etc. etc. We have hose reels, extinguishers of all relevant sorts, and even sand buckets! The hose reels and extinguishers are inspected annually by their suppliers. We used to get them to run a class once a year for the FOH staff, and the stage teams were welcome. Sad to say, I haven't heard of a recent one, and I fear that economy has reared its ugly head. > > The best defense against a theater fire is a properly installed and > maintained sprinkler system. No lights hang from the pipes, no scenery or > costumes or stored materials block the sprinkler heads, that sort of thing. > Maintenance should be done by folks trained in the procedure. The absolute best defence is care, and planning. When you use naked flames, and we do, some of the crew are standing where they can see the effect with an extinguisher to hand. So far, we have had one fire, which was set by an arsonist. Smoke damage only, and that trivial. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <20b.aea9ca6.3075c374 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:01:56 EDT Subject: Re: (was none - but call it stagehand firefighters) In a message dated 05/10/05 16:26:55 GMT Daylight Time, bill-conner [at] att.net writes: > As I stated, I continue to speak for retaining the hoses on stages but there > is strong opposition in the fire service. I can understand this. This list has reported fires that had been thought to be extinguished, and then broke out again. If you've saturated the whole area with a fire hose, it is tempting to call the fire out, even before the fire team has arrived. "It ain't neccessarily so!". Have the experts check. These things linger. In France, and in winter, I have a log fire. I go to bed at midnight, or so, and often it can still be revived at ten in the morning, with no help, and no further fuel. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <90.679edc34.3075c7cf [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:20:31 EDT Subject: Re: 3 phase 4 wire system question In a message dated 05/10/05 23:47:54 GMT Daylight Time, limeking [at] gmail.com writes: > It does refer to the fourth wire as a neutral, > and I would think this is proper, because if it were a ground, the > voltage between the fourth wire and any phase would be 240, correct? Anything you like, within reason. Voltage measurement requires a reference point. Long study of this list has told me that, in the US, gtround and neutral are somewhat interchangeable. This is not true. Ground is ground. A big spike driven into reasonably condustive soil. Neutral is the star point of a three-phase star supply, which is grounded at the sub-station, as a rule. By the time that you're at the end of a feeder, anything may happen. Personally, I want copper wires to connect my reference points to. That way, there is a chance that I am making real measurements. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20051005224924.03353e08 [at] pop.lightlink.com> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:59:20 -0400 From: John Bracewell Subject: Re: 3 phase 4 wire system question In-Reply-To: >Long study of this list has told me that, in the US, gtround and neutral are >somewhat interchangeable. Loose Yankee slang, Frank. Our penchant for imprecise use of words. I don't think any code I know of would accept neutral and ground as interchangeable--somewhat or otherwise. Neutral is the return conductor for the electrical supply system. Ground is a safety conductor that attempts to ensure that all metal surface that may be touched by a human are at earth potential, preferably by connection to an electrode buried in the earth. Neutral, according to most codes that I know of, is bonded to the earth ground at one and only one point in a local system. If an electrician bonds neutral to earth at any other point in an electrical system, any inspector that I've ever seen will insist that that bond be removed. Like you, I'm perplexed at the serious misunderstanding of delta and wye (star) three-phase systems. I'm also amazed at the number of times I've seen shops that were using 208 (two points of a delta system) as a substitute for split-phase (single phase) 240. This happened in the shop where I worked when I first arrived. People kept wondering why saw motors stalled in wood that should have been no problem to cut, and why the saw motors got so hot and burned out so quickly. -- JLB ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 23:29:46 -0400 Subject: Re: 3 phase 4 wire system question From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > Like you, I'm perplexed at the serious misunderstanding of delta and wye > (star) three-phase systems. I'm also amazed at the number of times I've > seen shops that were using 208 (two points of a delta system) as a > substitute for split-phase (single phase) 240. This happened in the shop > where I worked when I first arrived. People kept wondering why saw motors > stalled in wood that should have been no problem to cut, and why the saw > motors got so hot and burned out so quickly. I like to think I have somewhat of an understanding of the difference between Wye and delta systems, but I'm puzzled by a couple of things: In the quote above, there is mention of "split-phase (single phase) 240". Is this yet another scheme, or are you referring to two points of a Wye (star) system? Also I've read comments that there is NO neutral on a delta system. I'm probably wrong, but I was under the impression that a centre tap on each of the delta legs would be connected together in the centre and grounded - and used as a common neutral. Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ From: "Brian Busch" Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 00:29:46 -0600 Subject: Re: ticket software (a bit off topic, but I need some help) Message-Id: <20051006062946.2B1A42002A [at] ws1-1a.us4.outblaze.com> Sorry for the delayed response. AudienceView (which can be found at Audienc= eView.com) "provides a fully integrated Ticketing, Customer Relationship Ma= nagement and Funds Management system." This is all through a web-based inte= rface. This is not to be confused with other varieties of web-based systems= where a third party hosts the system off-site. The end-user has the softwa= re on their server and AV can be accessed from any workstation on your LAN = (it becomes an intranet site) with no special software or hardware requirem= ents. There are some caveats to that statement as you will receive more fun= ctionality and integration from AV if you are running an Exchange server an= d have MS Office on your workstations. One of my favorite parts of this pro= gram is online sales. Anything a customer would usually call the box office= to take care of can easily be accessed and completed from the comfort of t= heir home or office. Whether it is to buy a single or season ticket, regist= er for a class, make a one-time or recurring donation or purchase a gift ce= rtificate, it can all be done in one stop with no hassle. This also means t= hat your box office staff could forward calls to their house and work in th= eir PJ's watching their favorite soap. No more sick days either... ;-) Shoot me your questions, I'll be more than happy to answer them. Brian Busch IT Manager Coterie Theatre ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #541 *****************************