Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 25328935; Thu, 03 Nov 2005 03:02:18 -0800 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #571 Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 03:00:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on prxy.net X-Spam-Level: X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #571 1. Re: Styrofoam by "Bill Conner" 2. Let us know when you do cool stuff! Uncle Bill's Today Show gig by Eric Rouse 3. How to quiet a fog machine? by Davy Davis 4. Re: Catwalk Policy Advice by Eric Rouse 5. Re: How to quiet a fog machine? by "Peter Scheu" 6. Re: How to quiet a fog machine? by "Mike Burnett" 7. Re: How to quiet a fog machine? by "Curtis L. Mortimore" 8. Re: How to quiet a fog machine? by Ken Zinkl 9. Re: Catwalk Policy Advice by "Paul Schreiner" 10. Re: Working alone and catwlaks by Dale Farmer 11. Re: Catwalk Policy Advice by "C. Andrew Dunning" 12. Re: How to quiet a fog machine? by rwhitco [at] comcast.net 13. Re: Contract Rider Help!!! by CB 14. Job search options in the San Diego area. by CB 15. Re: Job search options in the San Diego area. by "Paul Schreiner" 16. Re: Job search options in the San Diego area. by Herrick Goldman 17. Re: Fall arrest on a pipe batten by CB 18. Noises Off -- mock fish oil by "Storms, Randy" 19. Re: Job search options in the San Diego area. by IAEG [at] aol.com 20. Re: Job search options in the San Diego area. by IAEG [at] aol.com 21. UK Work by CB 22. Re: Holding fire in my hands by CB 23. Re: Noises Off -- mock fish oil by "Meixner, Rebekkah J" 24. Falling distance by "Dougherty, Jim" 25. Re: Another unfortunate case of water and electricity not mixing by CB 26. Transparent aluminum by "Paul Schreiner" 27. Re: Holding fire in my hands by IAEG [at] aol.com 28. Re: Transparent aluminum by "Frank E. Merrill" 29. Re: Holding fire in my hands by Delbert Hall 30. Re: Falling distance by "G. D. George" 31. Personnel lift recommendations by "Jon Ares" 32. Re: How to quiet a fog machine? by Nathan Kahn/Look Solutions 33. Re: Personnel lift recommendations by "Paul Schreiner" 34. Re: Working alone and catwlaks by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 35. Re: Personnel lift recommendations by "Robert Bruemmer" 36. Re: LDI Listers gathering by "Ehrenberg, Steven" 37. Re: Personnel lift recommendations by Stephen Litterst 38. heating pool figured out by Adam Berns 39. Re: LDI Listers gathering by IAEG [at] aol.com 40. Re: LDI Listers gathering by Stephen Litterst 41. Re: Catwalk Policy Advice by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 42. Re: Falling distance by "RD" 43. Re: Working alone and catwalks by "RD" 44. Re: Catwalk Policy Advice by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 45. Re: Catwalk Policy Advice by Steve Larson 46. Re: Catwalk Policy Advice by Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com 47. Re: Working alone and catwlaks by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 48. Re: Working alone and catwlaks by Jerry Durand 49. Re: Noises Off -- mock fish oil by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 50. Re: Falling distance by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 51. Re: Noises Off -- mock fish oil by Steve Larson 52. Re: Working alone and catwlaks by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 53. Lighting angle/was Catwalk Policy Advice by Greg Bierly 54. Re: Lighting angle/was Catwalk Policy Advice by "Steven Haworth" 55. Re: Lighting angle/was Catwalk Policy Advice by Jerry Durand 56. Re: Working alone and catwalks by June Abernathy 57. Re: Falling distance by Dale Farmer 58. Re: Falling distance by "Richard Wolpert" 59. Re: Personnel lift recommendations by gregg hillmar 60. Re: Noises Off -- mock fish oil by doran [at] bard.edu 61. Re: Personnel lift recommendations by "Steve B." 62. Re: Lighting angle/was Catwalk Policy Advice by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 63. Re: Noises Off -- mock fish oil by "dolly" 64. Re: Let us know when you do cool stuff! Uncle Bill's Today Show gig by Bill Sapsis 65. Re: Let us know when you do cool stuff! Uncle Bill's Today Show gig by Greg Williams 66. house crew vs. local heads by 67. Re: house crew vs. local heads by "James, Brian" 68. Re: house crew vs. local heads by Stephen Litterst 69. Re: house crew vs. local heads by Dale Farmer 70. Re: Personnel lift recommendations by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <002901c5dfa9$d41af250$aa80a8c0 [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: RE:Styrofoam Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 06:34:50 -0600 I'd be curious to know if the is any paper available with the Styrofoam to help you determine if it complies with the Life Safety Code which requires a maximum heat release of 100 kW when tested according to UL 1975. Thanks. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41f080680511020502u6b746fcfpe6d8ec4c69cc36fd [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 08:02:21 -0500 From: Eric Rouse Subject: Let us know when you do cool stuff! Uncle Bill's Today Show gig SGV5IGV2ZXJ5Ym9keSAoYW5kIEJpbGwpLAoKV2hlbiB5b3UgZG8gYSBnaWcgdGhhdCB3aWxsIGJl IHRlbGV2aXNlZCwgZ2l2ZSB1cyBhIGhlYWRzIHVwIGFoZWFkIG9mCnRpbWUgc28gd2UgY2FuIHRh cGUgaXQgb3IgdGVsbCBzdHVkZW50cyB0byB3YXRjaCBpdC4gIEkgbG92ZSB0YXBpbmcKc3R1ZmYg bGlrZSB0aGF0LCBhd2FyZHMgc2hvd3MsIGV0Yy4uLiAgU3R1ZGVudHMgaGFyZGx5IGV2ZXIgd2F0 Y2ggdGhlbQphbmQgeWV0IHRoZXkgYXJlIGEgZ3JlYXQgd2F5IHRvIHNob3cgdGhlbSB3aGF0IGVs c2UgdGhleSBtaWdodCBiZSBhYmxlCnRvIGRvIHdpdGggdGhlaXIgdGhlYXRyZSBkZWdyZWUuCgpU aGVyZSdzIG9ubHkgc28gbWFueSB0aW1lcyBteSBzdHVkZW50cywgb3IgSSBmb3IgdGhhdCBtYXR0 ZXIsIGNhbgpzdG9tYWNoIG15IEZveSBkYXlzIFBldGVyIFBhbiB2aWRlb3MhCgpUaGFua3MgYWxs IQotLQpFcmljIFJvdXNlClRELVBlbm4gU3RhdGUgVW5pdmVyc2l0eQpTdGF0ZSBDb2xsZWdlLCBQ QQo= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 06:28:28 -0700 From: Davy Davis Subject: How to quiet a fog machine? Message-id: <2139f06213d49a.213d49a2139f06 [at] du.edu> We are doing Henry 6, part 3 in an intimate thrust configuration and wanted some smoke for the battles. Our Le Maitre G300 worked perfectly directly under the main deck which is not faced. but the director found it's noise disturbing. Adding sound effects pre-battle to hide it was vetoed. We tried a styrofoam box which barely helped. What did help was moving it 25' to behind the audience and piping in the smoke. But now we barely have any smoke as we are using Neutron Haze Fluid. We love the haze this produces after it comes out as "smoke". We are using 6" dryer duct for the pipe. So, is there a way to put it back under the deck and get it whisper quiet? is there a way to get better smoke through the duct? is there a way to selectively block the director's hearing? thanks, Davy William Temple (Davy) Davis Chair, Department of Theatre University of Denver Denver, Co 80210 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41f080680511020529n49b6e8b0vf6e53a8e8066c213 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 08:29:07 -0500 From: Eric Rouse Subject: Re: Catwalk Policy Advice In-Reply-To: References: Tm8gb25lIGhhcyBtZW50aW9uZWQgdGhlIGZhY3QoVW5sZXNzIEkgbWlzc2VkIGl0KSB0aGF0IHRo ZSBmb2xsb3cgc3BvdApwb3NpdGlvbnMgc2hvdWxkIEFCU09MVVRFTFkgaGF2ZSBmYWxsIHByb3Rl Y3Rpb24gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHNpbmNlIEkKYXNzdW1lIHRoYXQgc2FmZXR5IGNoYWluIGdvZXMgYXdh eSB3aGVuIHRoZXkgYXJlIGluIHVzZS4KCkFsc28uIE9LIHRvIGJ1eSBoYXJuZXNzZXMsIGJ1dCB0 aGUgZmFsbCBwcm90ZWN0aW9uIHN5c3RlbSBuZWVkcyB0byBiZQpkZXNpZ25lZCBhcHJvcHJpYXRl bHkuICBSYWlsaW5nLCB0aG91Z2ggcXVpdGUgY29udmVuaWVudCwgaXMgbm90IGFuCmFjY2VwdGFi bGUgYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmUgYXMgYSBmYWxsIHByb3RlY3Rpb24gcG9pbnQuCgpJIGFwcHJlY2lhdGUg dGhhdCBGcmFuayBmZWVscyB0aGF0IGhlIGNvdWxkIHN1cnZpdmUgYW4gMTgnIGZhbGwgd2l0aAps aXR0bGUgb3Igbm8gaW5qdXJ5LiAgSG93ZXZlciwgdG8gc2F5IHRoYXQgYW4gMTgnIGZhbGwgaXMg c3Vydml2YWJsZQpkb2Vzbid0IGhlbHAgdGhlIGF0dGl0dWRlIHRoYXQgd2UgYXMgYW4gaW5kdXN0 cnkgYXJlIGNvbnRpbnVvdXNseQp0cnlpbmcgdG8gZmlnaHQuCgpBIHRyaWNrIHRvIGtub3dpbmcg aG93IHRvIGZhbGwgaXMgdG8ga25vdyB5b3UgYXJlIGZhbGxpbmcgb3IgZ29pbmcgdG8KZmFsbC4g IFNvbWV0aW1lcyB0aGlzIGNvbWVzIGFzIGEgc3VycHJpc2UuCgpFcmljCgotLQpFcmljIFJvdXNl ClRELVBlbm4gU3RhdGUgVW5pdmVyc2l0eQpTdGF0ZSBDb2xsZWdlLCBQQQo= ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Peter Scheu" Subject: RE: How to quiet a fog machine? Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 08:32:42 -0500 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: In-reply-to: Davy Davis wrote: > is there a way to get better smoke >through the duct? A duct fan? Like this: http://www.smarthome.com/3011.html Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Syracuse, NY www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ Subject: RE: How to quiet a fog machine? Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 08:37:00 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Mike Burnett" There is a tech brief about building a silencer for a fog machine. It is in the Tech Brief Collection, volume 1, pg 21. This particular one was written by Kenneth Sanders. It looks pretty cool. I used something similar to quiet the hiss coming out of an air tank for some air casters used onstage. If you need a copy, let me know and I can scan/email it to you. MB ________________________________________________________________________ _ Mike Burnett, M.F.A. Assistant Professor of Theatre Chair, Department of Theatre =20 Huntington University Impact your World...for Christ...in Scholarship...through Service =20 260-359-4279 office 260-359-4249 fax =20 mburnett [at] huntington.edu www.huntington.edu/theatre =20 =20 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. =20 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers =20 Galatians 6:9-10=20 =20 "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." --Hamlet (I, v, 166-167) =20 ________________________________________________________________________ _ =20 -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Davy Davis Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 8:28 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: How to quiet a fog machine? For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- We are doing Henry 6, part 3 in an intimate thrust configuration and wanted some smoke for the battles. Our Le Maitre G300 worked perfectly directly under the main deck which is not faced. but the director found it's noise disturbing. Adding sound effects pre-battle to hide it was vetoed. We tried a styrofoam box which barely helped. What did help was moving it 25' to behind the audience and piping in the smoke. But now we barely have any smoke as we are using Neutron Haze Fluid. We love the haze this produces after it comes out as "smoke". We are using 6" dryer duct for the pipe. So, is there a way to put it back under the deck and get it whisper quiet? is there a way to get better smoke through the duct? is there a way to selectively block the director's hearing? thanks, Davy William Temple (Davy) Davis Chair, Department of Theatre University of Denver Denver, Co 80210 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 08:59:28 -0500 Subject: Re: How to quiet a fog machine? From: "Curtis L. Mortimore" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Davy, Correct me if I am wrong but the G300 is a dual purpose machine designed to work as either a continuous output fog machine OR as a hazer? My two cents says a couple things. In my experience the single best, easiest, cheapest, least amount of turmoil method of making loud things quiet is to turn them off or move them to a suitably distant location. To that end my suggestion is to stay with the 25' of ducting and incorporate a fan of some sort to assist the fog along. The second thing off my two cent platter is to question the use of haze fluid. Availability and money aside, I suggest trying one of Le maitre's other fluids. The Pro Beam fluid they have is super long lasting and should make it through 25' of hose and still be plenty robust when it comes out. I hope that helps. C. -- Curtis L. Mortimore Technical Director Ball State University Department of Theatre and Dance Muncie, IN 47306 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20051102140659.23992.qmail [at] web81810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 06:06:59 -0800 (PST) From: Ken Zinkl Subject: Re: How to quiet a fog machine? In-Reply-To: Make sure you are getting enough air in the pipe otherwise all of the "smoke" will turn right back into a liquid. Ken Zinkl Auditorium Manager Fort Zumwalt South High School --- Davy Davis wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > We are doing Henry 6, part 3 in an intimate thrust > configuration and wanted some smoke for the battles. > Our Le Maitre G300 worked perfectly directly under > the main deck which is not faced. but the director > found it's noise disturbing. Adding sound effects > pre-battle to hide it was vetoed. We tried a > styrofoam box which barely helped. What did help > was moving it 25' to behind the audience and piping > in the smoke. But now we barely have any smoke as > we are using Neutron Haze Fluid. We love the haze > this produces after it comes out as "smoke". We are > using 6" dryer duct for the pipe. > So, > is there a way to put it back under the deck and get > it whisper quiet? > is there a way to get better smoke through the duct? > is there a way to selectively block the director's > hearing? > thanks, > Davy > > William Temple (Davy) Davis > Chair, Department of Theatre > University of Denver > Denver, Co 80210 > > > > ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Catwalk Policy Advice Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 09:25:49 -0500 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0196CA24 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" > I find it difficult to draw a distinction between making an=20 > untrue statement=20 > and telling a lie. It's a matter of intention, IMO. > Returning to the topic, I think that you would be hard=20 > pressed to fall off=20 > ours, without a deliberate intention or wilful foolishness.=20 > If you were to climb=20 > to the outside of them, the bets are off.=20 Most of the time, one is hard-pressed to fall off of anything that's been properly designed. It's tough to make a personnel lift fall over, yet we hear about accidents like that on a consistent and troubling basis. A good part of the problem, as I see it, is that there's always this urge to push the envelope a little bit; in trying to find the perfect point from which to light something, the usual train of thought involves "Can we get the light here?" as opposed to "Can we get the light here safely?" There's not much wiggle room in what you can and cannot do on a catwalk without jeopardizing yourself, and I've never met a catwalk that didn't have some sort of deficiency when it comes to finding optimal lighting positions. A wire rope grid helps, but how many people have those? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4368D039.2D981D28 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:42:01 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Organization: The fuzz in the back of the fridge. Subject: Re: Working alone and catwlaks References: Bill Conner wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I was about to take offense at Doom's statement "and so many catwalks are > death traps in the theaters in this country" but perhaps they are. I > endeavor to assure convenient and very high quality technical circulation > and access in buildings I consult on, meaning no ducts or braces to duck or > crawl under, good and convenient illumination, regulation compliant > railings, and so on. I obviously see and experience catwalks in these > facilities more than average facilities. So, maybe Doom is correct in > proclaiming many catwalks in entertainment facilities "death traps". Still, > I don't find many incidents reported where someone has been injured or > killed in connection with proper use of catwalks, so what is the story? > Having been a proponent for many code changes that impact the design of > catwalks, what's not working and what is working? Where are the incidents > that result in injury? I won't claim to be complete, but here are some of the hazards that I've seen with catwalks. They come out into a couple of problem categories. Egress, working positions, head knockers, working conditions, and workarounds. Egress and access to catwalks are usually difficult. You have to climb up ladders, duck through ventilation machinery rooms, etc. Carrying gear up and down to catwalks can be awkward and dangerous, when you have a hand full of lighting instruments it's difficult to climb a ladder safely. What happens if someone breaks a leg or worse up there? Look at your catwalk and figure out how you would get someone in a stretcher loaded with the heaviest person in your shop down to the ground. Also single point of access. What if there is a fire, and it happens to start right at the bottom of the ladder up to the catwalk? Anyone up there is high up, where all the nice toxic smoke goes, and are now in pretty deep shit. Is there a fire alarm pull box up there too? Emergency telephone? Working positions. Some catwalks have the lighting hang points set such that you have to lean rather far out from the catwalk to reach out and do things like adjusting barn doors or changing gel. Danger Will Robinson! If you gotta lean out that far, depending on your grip on a dusty girder, which is rapidly turning into slippery mud from your sweat, to keep from falling down, something is wrong. Head knockers and shin busters. I'm sure that we all have had the bruises to explain why that is bad. Nuff said. Working conditions. Hot, dirty, poorly lit, uncomfortable. Learn about the dangers of heat stress. A healthy person working in a hot catwalk who isn't keeping adequately hydrated can get heat exhaustion and heat stroke in less than an hour go from seeming to be fine to be DOA. Falls and trips because you didn't see that lens barrel laying on the catwalk there. Six hours up in the heat without enough water, since you don't have access to a bathroom. Workarounds. They didn't put up in the catwalk enough stuff that you need for the show. Usually this is dimmer circuits, so you end up with copper spaghetti running every which way, tripping you up and making tracing out circuits a real hassle. Or maybe there is only one non-dim power outlet in the whole catwalk, and you have lots of things that want that. Oops, only one intercom plug, and it is 200 feet of cable run away from where you want to put the follow spot, if you have an intercom plug. All these cables are running through fire doors, keeping them open so that the fire and smoke can get through them easier. --Dale ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "C. Andrew Dunning" Subject: RE: Catwalk Policy Advice Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 08:41:25 -0600 Organization: Landru Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >No one has mentioned the fact(Unless I >missed it) that the follow spotpositions should ABSOLUTELY >have fall protection available since I assume that safety chain >goes away when they are in use. You are correct; the chains are dropped when the followspots are used. As I've been thinking through this, this is the major place that seems to need fixing. Safeties/fall protection are needed for both the operators AND the followspots. The other thing that is needing addressing is, as many have pointed out, the potential for technicians to be working in ways that take them off of the "accepted" climbing structure (catwalk floor or the installed ladders). The catwalk system at the church is well-designed enough that that really shouldn't be necessary in the normal operation of things - save for 3 floor-level hanging positions on each catwalk. Those take some crawling and "creative maneuvering" to access. - Andy ------------------------------ From: rwhitco [at] comcast.net Subject: Re: How to quiet a fog machine? Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:18:05 +0000 Message-Id: <110220051518.16000.4368D8AD00077A0800003E802200745672010C9B0708999D [at] comcast.net> For our G300 we often use a 6" inline duct fan purchased at a local home supply store. This is connected to 40' of dryer hose which we perforate along the length so the haze comes out at regular intervals. We cover the opening at the far end. Randy Whitcomb Price Civic Auditorium Loveland, CO ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20051101223315.00b3d170 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 22:33:15 From: CB Subject: Re: Contract Rider Help!!! Nine months, ninety days, ninety minutes, gigging is gigging. I can hardly turn down a show or a tour 'cuz I' wanna go for a bike ride. 'Sides, you guys want to rid einna cold, and I'm a wuss. OTOH, I did come up with a doozy of an idea today, as well as providing a fine source of maglite batts, I figured that Broadway and other AA and AAA venues could provide a HUGE batch of almost new batteries for the toys for tots and such runs that would provide power fpr those 'Batteries not Included" situations. All we need is to find a local place near any theatre that'll dropp off a container and come empty it at some regular interval. I'm just and idea guy, so if there's a burgeoning logistics guy out there that wants to take the ball and runn with it... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20051101230541.00b3d170 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 23:05:41 From: CB Subject: Job search options in the San Diego area. >Anybody know of a place to begin a stage craft job search in San Diego? Nunu's. Go armed with real experiences and great stories. Don't tell them unless somebody asks. Don't be a jerk, buy rounds when its appropriate, tell people your name when they ask, and don't tell them that you're looking for a job, just wait till they need someone and are comfortable enough with you to mention it in your presence. A simple, "I could do that" will suffice. Talk money afterwards. Oh, and try to keep up with some of the regulars, and drink decent beer at the very least. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Job search options in the San Diego area. Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:02:53 -0500 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0196CA25 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" > keep up with some of the regulars, and drink decent beer at=20 > the very least. So does this mean that for the purposes of networking and developing goodwill, I can claim homebrewing supplies as a business expense on my taxes? Never thought of it that way.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:08:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Job search options in the San Diego area. From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Ah CB a man after my own heart. Can't we get together and teach a class in this? No one believes me when I tell them how I get work. Well my wife does but she's a lush too. :) On 11/1/05 11:05 PM, "CB" wrote: > > Nunu's. Go armed with real experiences and great stories. Don't tell them > unless somebody asks. Don't be a jerk, buy rounds when its appropriate, > tell people your name when they ask, and don't tell them that you're > looking for a job, just wait till they need someone and are comfortable > enough with you to mention it in your presence. A simple, "I could do > that" will suffice. Talk money afterwards. > Oh, and try to keep up with some of the regulars, and drink decent beer at > the very least. > -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20051102091219.00b3d170 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:12:19 From: CB Subject: RE: Fall arrest on a pipe batten >Have HIM do the math... The assumptions are 120 lbs, falling 6 feet, and >let's assume the amount of "slop" in the systems (rigging and fall arrest) >stops him in 6" (which may be generous). Usually, these types don't have a clue, and quoting the math at them begins to get you the Nipper response. Try this: "Well, that's like saying that a 20 oz. hammer isn't enough weight to drive a nail. It isn't the wieght at rest, its the weight at the end of the swing that does the real work." It might help, and if it doesn't you already have an excuse lined up to go get the hammer. ------------------------------ Subject: Noises Off -- mock fish oil Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 08:15:59 -0800 Message-ID: <555928311F8B2943B65FC7197942C3B70538C090 [at] es1.bsdnet.wednet.edu> From: "Storms, Randy" Does anyone have a suggestion for a non-toxic, non staining substance to = simulate fish oil for our Noises Off "sardines"? At one point they get = dumped on an actors head... A local props guy uses egg whites, but spoilage issues aside, I'd rather = not be separating eggs for the next three weeks. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Randy Storms rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <235.2c0f76.309a405b [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:16:27 EST Subject: Re: Job search options in the San Diego area. Cc: psyd [at] cox.net In a message dated 11/2/05 10:56:09 AM, psyd [at] cox.net writes: << Nunu's. Go armed with real experiences and great stories. Don't tell them unless somebody asks. >> Nunu's rocks, , and it is the hang out for the pro theatre crowd as well as Portugese fisherman. Been there with a good friend who has worked extensively with OLD GLOBE and LA JOLLA, , I met and networked with a ton of people, very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:17:34 EST Subject: Re: Job search options in the San Diego area. In a message dated 11/2/05 11:08:53 AM, Herrick [at] HGLightingDesign.com writes: << Ah CB a man after my own heart. Can't we get together and teach a class in this? No one believes me when I tell them how I get work. Well my wife does but she's a lush too. :) >> Herrick, , I can witness the fact, , , yes sir ree Bob very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20051102091828.00b3d170 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:18:28 From: CB Subject: UK Work > Does >anybody have any suggestions for handling immigration, job searches, etc? Get a Visa that allows her to stay with him, but not work. This is good (IIRC) for two years. After that, if it all works out, have him marry her in the US. They can then travel back and forth as husband and wife. If the relationship isn't serious enough to consider the above options, advise her that it was a great school-girl romance and she should fondly treasure the memories. The process is so long and involved that it isn't usually worth it otherwise. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20051102092053.00b3d170 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:20:53 From: CB Subject: Re: Holding fire in my hands > We set Mark >on fire in May and it was a lot for fun to watch him burn for 45 >seconds I love this list... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Noises Off -- mock fish oil Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:24:48 -0500 Message-ID: <8E36ACD2B4D8DA47932F8A105D9A3BF2188AE8 [at] iu-mssg-mbx09.exchange.iu.edu> From: "Meixner, Rebekkah J" Funny you should ask this, I have am now in the last weekend of a VERY large production of Noise's Off. We looked into a lot of different ways to do this bit and found that not using anything for the oil worked best for us.=20 We ended up using Zoom brand super Fluke style fishing lures, found at you local Walmart. They are cheep and look great from the stage. They are made out of a silicone rubber substance and tend to glisten enough under the lights so no one really noticed the missing oil. Not to mention that we found that anything on the stage floor at that point became a slip hazard for the actors and the one actress did not have enough time to wash anything out for her hair for the next act.=20 I hope that this helps. Rebekkah J. Meixner Assistant Professor of Technical Theatre Theatre Department Indiana University Southeast 4201 Grant Line Road New Albany, IN 47150 812-941-2653 -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Storms, Randy Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:16 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Noises Off -- mock fish oil For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Does anyone have a suggestion for a non-toxic, non staining substance to simulate fish oil for our Noises Off "sardines"? At one point they get dumped on an actors head... A local props guy uses egg whites, but spoilage issues aside, I'd rather not be separating eggs for the next three weeks. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Randy Storms rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:26:59 -0500 Subject: Falling distance From: "Dougherty, Jim" Message-ID: Frank Wood posted: >I have seen it done, for difficult rigging of a set, but with a harness. We >have few suicidal riggers, although an 18' fall onto an even surface is >unlikely to be fatal. Remember that a parachute jump is equivalaent to coming off a >12' wall. Not something I want to do, but I know how to fall. Given that one will have a bit over a second to get into proper fall position and prepare for the unexpected fall, you'll be falling at about 23 mph, few stages are even surfaces by the time you're working on the catwalks, and that few people are willing to accept "unlikely to be fatal" as a standard for a safe practice, fall protection seems like a pretty good idea. In a conversation just yesterday about a dance troupe called Project Bandaloop, which regularly performs in climbing harnesses from buildings, large rock formations, etc., the conclusion was that a fatal fall might indeed be preferable to one that, while not fatal, left one badly badly hurt. Having to explain for the rest of your life how the injury happened seems bad enough in itself. Their riggers, btw, are very experienced and very careful, and the dancers know the risks. For the record, how _does_ one fall 18' from a catwalk safely? For the sake of argument, let's assume the floor is flat, bumps and bruises are acceptable but broken bones are not, and that you can choose your body position when you land - i.e. you didn't pitch out headfirst when trying to lean out to focus that last light right before going home. I always thought a pig sticker was a knife, too. Is it like a trucker's club that they use to smack tires, or something else? Rising to the bait, Jim Dougherty ATD, Middlebury College Theatre Dept. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20051102092911.00b3d170 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 09:29:11 From: CB Subject: Re: Another unfortunate case of water and electricity not mixing >What's a "pig sticker"? A small knife, usually, with no specific purpose. The euphamism is usually applied to a knife that hangs out waiting to be usefull in many different applications, i.e., fingernail cleaner, screwdriver, prybar, toothpick, etc. Slightly larger than a pen knife or pocket knife, but smaller than a 'real' knife. Lately the term has been used by marketing depts. to describe larger knives, ostensibly to garner interest in them (?!?). Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Subject: Transparent aluminum Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:30:52 -0500 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0196CA26 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" Okay, here's another one of those interesting synchronicity moments... So we've been talking about transparent aluminum here the past week. Turns out that Tuesday Morning Quarterback (Gregg Easterbrook writing for NFL.com) has had that on his mind lately, too. From last week's Reader Animadversion column: ***** In one of the Star Trek theatrical movies, our heroes travel backward in time to the 1980s and, lacking money, get supplies by swapping a 23rd-century formula for "transparent aluminum." Watching the flick I thought, "But wouldn't this alter history?" Stand by for history to change -- William Wright, an engineer in Cleveland, points out that glass fashioned from alumina has recently been made in the lab. Was this discovered, or did somebody get the formula from a time-traveler wearing a Starfleet uniform?" ***** Makes me wonder what it all means.... ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <206.d412d5a.309a43eb [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:31:39 EST Subject: Re: Holding fire in my hands In a message dated 11/2/05 11:21:30 AM, psyd [at] cox.net writes: << > We set Mark >on fire in May and it was a lot for fun to watch him burn for 45 >seconds I love this list... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ >> But Delbert, , what were seconds 46 - 50 like ? very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:38:03 -0500 From: "Frank E. Merrill" Reply-To: "Frank E. Merrill" Message-ID: <786977544.20051102113803 [at] tcon.net> Subject: Re: Transparent aluminum In-Reply-To: References: Howdy ! Wednesday, November 2, 2005, Paul Schreiner wrote: > a time-traveler wearing a Starfleet uniform? I was standing in a long line waiting to board a roller coaster at one of the theme parks some years ago. The coaster was a futuristic styled ride, and the park had various official-sounding announcements over the PA system to enhance the effect and relieve the boredom. One of the announcements was "...the time travel committee meeting has been rescheduled to last Friday." It was one of those moments where you want to laugh out loud and let everybody else in the line think you are REALLY weird! Best regards, Frank E. Merrill MERRILL STAGE EQUIPMENT Indianapolis Established 1946 www.merrillstage.com Running THE BAT! Natural e-mail system v.3.60 mailto:Lamplighter [at] tcon.net ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:48:32 -0500 From: Delbert Hall Subject: Re: Holding fire in my hands In-Reply-To: References: On 11/2/05, IAEG [at] aol.com wrote: > But Delbert, , what were seconds 46 - 50 like ? He was on the ground and we were spraying him with a fire extinguisher (there was a back up fire extinguisher just in case the first one failed). Afterward someone asked Mark, "Was it hot?" I will leave it to you to figure out the answer. -Delbert -- Delbert L. Hall ZFX Flying Director Phone: 714-585-7070 ------------------------------ From: "G. D. George" Subject: RE: Falling distance Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 12:05:43 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Collapse and roll, baby, collapse and roll... J For the record, how _does_ one fall 18' from a catwalk safely? For the sake of argument, let's assume the floor is flat, bumps and bruises are acceptable but broken bones are not, and that you can choose your body position when you land - i.e. you didn't pitch out headfirst when trying to lean out to focus that last light right before going home. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000e01c5dfd3$9efb25c0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Personnel lift recommendations Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 09:34:04 -0800 I know this comes up about every 3-4 months, but now some PTBs are asking for info by the end of the week, and the archives are playing the silent game right now... I'm looking for model numbers and ballpark figures for personnel lifts... it's been years since I've been shopping for one, and Genie's website is a bit... how shall we say? hard to find what you need (you have to go through every model of everything to find what you need). I'm looking for a single-person bucket personnel lift that will fit through doors (preferably) and (also preferably) outrigger-less. Platform height probably doesn't need to exceed about 15' (with a working height of 20-21'). AC is probably slightly preferable to DC, since batteries seem to die when you really don't want them to (and don't stay charged very long). So, those of you who have bought one for your facility in the last year or so, what did you get? And how much? TIA. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-Id: <5.0.0.25.2.20051102123550.02783460 [at] 212.86.129.164> Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:35:53 -0500 From: Nathan Kahn/Look Solutions Subject: Re: How to quiet a fog machine? >Our Le Maitre G300 worked perfectly directly under the main deck >But now we barely have any smoke as we are using Neutron Haze Fluid. We >love the haze this produces after it comes out as "smoke". Neutron Haze Fluid is not recommended for use in the Le Maitre G300. The G300 in haze mode is designed to use Regular Haze Fluid. Both are Glycerol and Water, but the ratios are quite different - I'd think this could cause problems. Nathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Look Solutions USA, Ltd. 114 W. Third St. Waynesboro, PA 17268 Toll-Free: 1-800-426-4189 Phone: 1-717-762-7490 Fax: 1-717-762-7366 Company Email: usa [at] looksolutions.com Personal Email: nk [at] looksolutions.com Web: www.fogspecs.com ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Personnel lift recommendations Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:15:29 -0500 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0196CA27 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" > I'm looking for model numbers and ballpark figures for=20 > personnel lifts...=20 > it's been years since I've been shopping for one, and Genie's=20 > website is a=20 > bit... how shall we say? hard to find what you need (you have=20 > to go through=20 > every model of everything to find what you need). I'm looking for a=20 > single-person bucket personnel lift that will fit through=20 > doors (preferably)=20 > and (also preferably) outrigger-less. Platform height=20 > probably doesn't need=20 > to exceed about 15' (with a working height of 20-21'). AC is=20 > probably=20 > slightly preferable to DC, since batteries seem to die when=20 > you really don't=20 > want them to (and don't stay charged very long). Bought a Genie IWP-20 (outriggerless), AC, with outreach extension basket three years ago. Paid about $4900, including the delivery. Other bids were all in that general area, with the top bid only being about $5500. Haven't shopped for one since switching jobs, though, so I dunno if prices have changed substantially. I'd expect shipping/delivery charges to be a bit heftier these days... ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <9b.6bbb8b66.309a5ef4 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:27:00 EST Subject: Re: Working alone and catwlaks In a message dated 02/11/05 03:08:58 GMT Standard Time, bill-conner [at] att.net writes: > Having been a proponent for many code changes that impact the design of > catwalks, what's not working and what is working? Where are the incidents > that result in injury? Unexpected obstructions. Having worked in one theatre with catwalks for nearly forty years, I have learned where to duck. The roof structure of the theatre, opened in 1964, consists of four trussed girders, running up and down stage. the catwalks go from side to side, and there are inevitably places on some of them where you have to duck to avoid the diagonal members. These I know. Sometimes, for scenic purposes, bars are rigged which link the two upper rails. Standing up under one of these can be painful. I have met no other problems, although lifting a Patt 243 lantern over the top rail to rig it is getting beyond me, these days. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200511021837.jA2IbCrW046560 [at] oz.plymouth.edu> From: "Robert Bruemmer" Subject: RE: Personnel lift recommendations Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:37:10 -0500 Organization: Plymouth State University In-Reply-To: We purchased a JLG Model 20DVL Self propelled.... I wouldn't trade it for anything.... million and one uses and has made focusing much safer.... Bob -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jon Ares Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:34 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Personnel lift recommendations For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- I know this comes up about every 3-4 months, but now some PTBs are asking for info by the end of the week, and the archives are playing the silent game right now... I'm looking for model numbers and ballpark figures for personnel lifts... it's been years since I've been shopping for one, and Genie's website is a bit... how shall we say? hard to find what you need (you have to go through every model of everything to find what you need). I'm looking for a single-person bucket personnel lift that will fit through doors (preferably) and (also preferably) outrigger-less. Platform height probably doesn't need to exceed about 15' (with a working height of 20-21'). AC is probably slightly preferable to DC, since batteries seem to die when you really don't want them to (and don't stay charged very long). So, those of you who have bought one for your facility in the last year or so, what did you get? And how much? TIA. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Subject: RE: LDI Listers gathering Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 12:38:06 -0600 Message-ID: <49B1EE6419216743A7C1AEE1F978970788525C [at] CCUMAIL44.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> From: "Ehrenberg, Steven" Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 07:50:28 -0500 Subject: Re: LDI From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I'll be there from Wednesday afternoon thru Sunday afternoon. I'll be at the Rosebrand party as well. Also the Omni-Rosen-Brady-Bunch sunken bar is a convenient meeting point. The Peabody bar is just too small. Sadly both close at midnight. :P -H Since there have been no definitive suggestions, I'll start. I am going to go way out on an LDI limb and suggest a Gathering - Post Rosebrand party -on Friday evening in the Brady Bunch Sunken Living Room Bar at the Rosen Center? Plaza? Whatever, it's hard to miss. But if anyone has alternates please toss 'em out here.=20 Steven Steven Ehrenberg=20 Director of Technical Supervision=20 Clear Channel Entertainment - Theatrical=20 220 W 42nd St. 14th floor NY, NY 10036=20 Office 917 421 5461=20 Mobile 917 331 0207 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 13:40:56 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Personnel lift recommendations In-reply-to: Message-id: <43690838.7080609 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: Jon Ares wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > > I know this comes up about every 3-4 months, but now some PTBs are > asking for info by the end of the week, and the archives are playing the > silent game right now... > So, those of you who have bought one for your facility in the last year > or so, what did you get? And how much? TIA. I just bought an AC model AWP-25 with the gated basket option for $5300. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <383181.1130956886629.JavaMail.gunntd [at] mac.com> Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 10:41:26 -0800 From: Adam Berns Subject: heating pool figured out So, here is what I ended up doing. 1. Acquired a pump that will circulate the water (Yes, it is designed to run 24x7 for weeks on end, though it will be shut off during the show). It will also empty the pool as well, at about 9 GPM, and I do mean empty it, well, down to about 1" 2. Acquired some Submersible water heaters (the kinds used for large fish tanks) And we seem to be in good shape. With the chlorine, and circulating water, it should all work. Okay, to cover more grounds: The theater is in a controlled space, so people can not access, fall into the pool We have put a cover (okay, just a tarp) over the pool to keep debris out We have monitored the level of water, and have lost no water to leakage or evaporation (well, none measurable) We have checked under the stage for any warping in the floor, and it is all fine (well at least laser accurate) there are no air pockets in the lining of the pool. So, it all seems to be working. I think the pool comes along the same idea of the "glowing" light in you can't take it with you, the wagon in Oklahoma!, The elevator from Sweet Charity, Audry 2 from Little shop, the slide in Sweeney Todd, and all the other really crazy ideas that play writes come up with, ohh this sounds like a fun thread... The most complex, messed up, confusing, lamest thing you have ever had to come up with. ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1ad.42e892a9.309a62e5 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:43:49 EST Subject: Re: LDI Listers gathering In a message dated 11/2/05 1:38:46 PM, StevenEhrenberg [at] clearchannel.com writes: << Since there have been no definitive suggestions, I'll start. I am going to go way out on an LDI limb and suggest a Gathering - Post Rosebrand party -on Friday evening in the Brady Bunch Sunken Living Room Bar at the Rosen Center? Plaza? Whatever, it's hard to miss. But if anyone has alternates please toss 'em out here. >> that's really the best of all possible worlds, , basically an extension of the Rosebrand event, , just move to the bar... I second the motion very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 13:48:08 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: LDI Listers gathering In-reply-to: Message-id: <436909E8.5040703 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: IAEG [at] aol.com wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > that's really the best of all possible worlds, , basically an extension of > the Rosebrand event, , just move to the bar... > > I second the motion I'll go along with that. Assuming I can wrangle an invite to the Rosebrand bash. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <207.d4402d5.309a65a7 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:55:35 EST Subject: Re: Catwalk Policy Advice In a message dated 02/11/05 13:29:43 GMT Standard Time, erictd [at] gmail.com writes: > No one has mentioned the fact(Unless I missed it) that the follow spot > positions should ABSOLUTELY have fall protection available since I > assume that safety chain goes away when they are in use. Happily, we seldom use them, as our low roof height (24") means that they have to come in from a low angle. Opera houses have them as high as can be arranged, goming down at an angle of 60 degrees or more. They are usually in an enclosed box, with considerable ventilation, as old-fashioned arcs emit noxious fumes. Even modern xenon arcs produce a certain amount of ozone. But, since they seldom have to make big angular movements, a normal safety bond will usually work. > > I appreciate that Frank feels that he could survive an 18' fall with > little or no injury. However, to say that an 18' fall is survivable > doesn't help the attitude that we as an industry are continuously > trying to fight. I think I should survive, but it's not an experiment I want to make. What a judo expert calls a 'forward rolling breakfall' would be the best hope, which involves trenslating the downward impact into something horizontal. As you land you push sideways, and roll on your hip and shoulder. I knew of one experienced rock climber who said that he could fall 50' on to a suitable surface, and walk away from it. > > A trick to knowing how to fall is to know you are falling or going to > fall. Sometimes this comes as a surprise. I think it always should. But you usually have a few fractions of a second to react, and in a hazardous situation I should have thought about what to do. Reaching too far from an A-frame is probably the most common mishap. That said, it is still best not to put yourself in such situations. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Falling distance Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:56:55 -0700 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sounds like Seal training. Studies have shown that falling from even six inches can be injurious because the body goes through so many gyrations to right itself and protect itself. Certainly, we have several cases from world war II and in the last dozen years of individuals who were shot out of planes or whose chutes did not open, landing, relaxed, if you can picture that, and living, with broken bones, but alive. And we have cases of people falling from catwalks and dying. Go figure. Dr. doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of G. D. George Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 10:06 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Falling distance For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Collapse and roll, baby, collapse and roll... J For the record, how _does_ one fall 18' from a catwalk safely? For the sake of argument, let's assume the floor is flat, bumps and bruises are acceptable but broken bones are not, and that you can choose your body position when you land - i.e. you didn't pitch out headfirst when trying to lean out to focus that last light right before going home. ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Cc: bill [at] bcaworld.com ('Bill Conner') Subject: RE: Working alone and catwalks Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 12:08:12 -0700 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 1. Clutter on the catwalks, i.e. cables, stageweights, gel frames, trash, tools, lamps, no railings, poor walking surfaces, rickety walking surfaces, very poor lighting, ducking beams, horseplay, pushing the envelope in reaching out too far or trying to catch an object that is falling, all of them, and many more, equally stupid, but lack of training and poor housekeeping rank high. Despite the excellent work Bill and others have done in design for catwalk areas, in the schools, and remember there are over 120,000 of them, poor conditions exist, designs have added to the hazardous areas and walks, especially in older venues. Schools are just a few that are obvious, so are colleges, entertainment venues, etc. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Conner Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 12:35 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Working alone and catwlaks For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- I was about to take offense at Doom's statement "and so many catwalks are death traps in the theaters in this country" but perhaps they are. I endeavor to assure convenient and very high quality technical circulation and access in buildings I consult on, meaning no ducts or braces to duck or crawl under, good and convenient illumination, regulation compliant railings, and so on. I obviously see and experience catwalks in these facilities more than average facilities. So, maybe Doom is correct in proclaiming many catwalks in entertainment facilities "death traps". Still, I don't find many incidents reported where someone has been injured or killed in connection with proper use of catwalks, so what is the story? Having been a proponent for many code changes that impact the design of catwalks, what's not working and what is working? Where are the incidents that result in injury? Thanks. Bill Conner ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <194.4b007b9e.309a6aba [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:17:14 EST Subject: Re: Catwalk Policy Advice In a message dated 02/11/05 14:26:34 GMT Standard Time, pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu writes: > A good part of the problem, as I see it, is that there's always > this urge to push the envelope a little bit; in trying to find the > perfect point from which to light something, the usual train of thought > involves "Can we get the light here?" as opposed to "Can we get the > light here safely?" Compromises always have to be made. Personally, I have seldom been concerned about the exact placement of a lantern. A foot either way usually makes little difference. Very occasionally, it does. With luck, this will be detected early in the planning process, and a request to the director or designer to move something will often solve the problem. Sometimes late changes to the design make life difficult. I have not yet forgotten the designer who added a 6' border on the pros line at a very late stage. ALL the FOH lights had to be re-focussed! > > There's not much wiggle room in what you can and cannot do on a catwalk > without jeopardizing yourself, and I've never met a catwalk that didn't > have some sort of deficiency when it comes to finding optimal lighting > positions. A wire rope grid helps, but how many people have those? Interesting. Our black box studio theatre suffers from this problem. Access is by a tower, or ladders. It's OK when the floor is clear. Once the seating rostra have been set up, it is a great pain. I have seen some dangerous things done. Propping the top of a ladder on a bar no more than a foot from the ceiling, for example. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:29:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Catwalk Policy Advice From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: With a roof height of 24", I would definitely concur that they would come in at low angle. Steve > From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com > Reply-To: "Stagecraft" > Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:55:35 EST > To: "Stagecraft" > Subject: Re: Catwalk Policy Advice > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Happily, we seldom use them, as our low roof height (24") means that they > have to come in from a low angle. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Catwalk Policy Advice Message-ID: From: Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:34:01 -0500 Earlier today Frank Wood wrote: "I have a strong dislike of being told that I am a liar, when it is not true." Frank, are you implying at times it may be true? Oh dearie me. Please advise. Marty Petlock Technical Facilities Manager Van Wezel P.A.H. Sarasota, FL. ********** E-mail messages sent or received by City of Sarasota officials and employees in connection with official City business are public records subject to disclosure under the Florida Public Records Act. ********** ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <145.51175e5a.309a7154 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:45:24 EST Subject: Re: Working alone and catwlaks In a message dated 02/11/05 14:39:59 GMT Standard Time, dale [at] cybercom.net writes: > I won't claim to be complete, but here are some of the hazards that I've > seen with catwalks. They come out into a couple of problem categories. > Egress, working positions, head knockers, working conditions, and > workarounds. We seem to have avoided most of these problems. > > Egress and access to catwalks are usually difficult. You have to climb > up ladders, duck through ventilation machinery rooms, etc. Carrying gear > up and down to catwalks can be awkward and dangerous, when you have > a hand full of lighting instruments it's difficult to climb a ladder safely. Two cat ladders from each wing, and three step stairs from the lighting an sound control room. There is a gallery running most of the way round the theatre, where lanterns are stored. > What > happens if someone breaks a leg or worse up there? Look at your catwalk > and figure out how you would get someone in a stretcher loaded with the > heaviest person in your shop down to the ground. > > Working positions. Some catwalks have the lighting hang points set such > that you have to lean rather far out from the catwalk to reach out and do > things like adjusting barn doors or changing gel. Danger Will Robinson! If > you gotta lean out that far, depending on your grip on a dusty girder, which > is rapidly turning into slippery mud from your sweat, to keep from falling > down, something is wrong. Ours are on the catwalk rails. To handle some of the bigger modern lanterns, there is an auxiliary rail a foot further out from the top rail. All the rails are of 2" OD steel tube. > > Head knockers and shin busters. I'm sure that we all have had the > bruises > to explain why that is bad. Nuff said. Indeed. Head knockers are inherent in the structure, and in forty years I have learnt where to duck. Shin busters are normally installed by the SM, and can catch you out. > > Working conditions. Hot, dirty, poorly lit, uncomfortable. No worse than anywhere else, apart from the inevitable heat gain at the upper levels. While I have known the lighting team to be wearing three pairs of trousers and a bra, this was a late night show, starting at 23.00 after a performance. > > Workarounds. Bluntly, we don't have to do that. The lanterns are stored at the level of the catwalks. 80% of the outlets are on the catwalks, via a patch system which minimises the amount of trailing cable. We are usually disciplined enough that we don't leave loose impedimenta around. I don't want to make us sound like a miracle. We have our problems. But, as well as the architect, there were three competent engineers across the project. Between them, they got it right. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20051102115149.03af14b0 [at] 192.168.0.13> Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:52:07 -0800 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Working alone and catwlaks In-Reply-To: References: At 11:45 AM 11/2/2005, you wrote: >While I have known the lighting team to be wearing three pairs of >trousers and a bra, this was a late night show, starting at 23.00 after a >performance. Each person or spread across 15 people? -- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:52:32 EST Subject: Re: Noises Off -- mock fish oil In a message dated 02/11/05 16:17:03 GMT Standard Time, rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu writes: > Does anyone have a suggestion for a non-toxic, non staining substance to > simulate fish oil for our Noises Off "sardines"? At one point they get dumped > on an actors head... How about the olive oil out of a tin of sardines? It's non-toxic, probably non-staining, and organic. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <215.d1a95f0.309a74c5 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 15:00:05 EST Subject: Re: Falling distance In a message dated 02/11/05 16:28:50 GMT Standard Time, jdougher [at] middlebury.edu writes: > For the record, how _does_ one fall 18' from a catwalk safely? For the sake > of argument, let's assume the floor is flat, bumps and bruises are > acceptable but broken bones are not, and that you can choose your body > position when you land - i.e. you didn't pitch out headfirst when trying to > lean out to focus that last light right before going home. This is why cats are so good at it. When they are falling, they adjust their body position to take the fall. > > I always thought a pig sticker was a knife, too. Is it like a trucker's > club that they use to smack tires, or something else? As I have seen it, it is a short lance. While I agree that extreme measures may be needed to remove someone from electrocution, I feel that this may be going too far, Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:56:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Noises Off -- mock fish oil From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: The point is...the oil is not needed. If you want them wet, wet them with water. Again...moisture+ stage+actors=problems. Steve > From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com > Reply-To: "Stagecraft" > Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:52:32 EST > To: "Stagecraft" > Subject: Re: Noises Off -- mock fish oil > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 02/11/05 16:17:03 GMT Standard Time, > rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu writes: > >> Does anyone have a suggestion for a non-toxic, non staining substance to >> simulate fish oil for our Noises Off "sardines"? At one point they get > dumped >> on an actors head... > > How about the olive oil out of a tin of sardines? It's non-toxic, probably > non-staining, and organic. > > > > Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <24a.18f328.309a7797 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 15:12:07 EST Subject: Re: Working alone and catwlaks In a message dated 02/11/05 19:53:15 GMT Standard Time, jdurand [at] interstellar.com writes: > >While I have known the lighting team to be wearing three pairs of > >trousers and a bra, this was a late night show, starting at 23.00 after a > >performance. > > Each person or spread across 15 people? Sorry to disappoint you, but only three. Frank Wood ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Greg Bierly Subject: Lighting angle/was Catwalk Policy Advice Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 15:35:41 -0500 FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > Compromises always have to be made. Personally, I have seldom been > concerned > about the exact placement of a lantern. A foot either way usually > makes little > difference. Frank, isn't this contrary to your entire "anti-moving light" argument? I thought in your posts you stated angle was everything and multiple lights hung at exact positions was far superior than a single moving light with multiple color, gobo, and focus capabilities due to the fact it wouldn't be in the exact position it needed to be. Sorry to all for lighting this fuse again but is anyone else screaming on the inside? Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Lighting angle/was Catwalk Policy Advice Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:44:31 -0600 Message-ID: <5D5187063B6B8B46A99E8C0D36E0EB097B5DAD [at] danube.river.idm.com> From: "Steven Haworth" It's clear to me, and I'm not screaming. Frank's only talking about a foot or so - very minor - and only to = adjust positions between the postion on the light plot and the actual = hanging position in the physical theatre. That's different than using a = moving light that hits at a 45 deg angle for one position, then tries to = emulate the same light source but hits at 75 degs in another scene. I've used moving lights in exactly that way, but in one position it's = late-afternoon sunlight from the side, and in another it's backlight. I = would indeed screw up the angles by using only one moving light as the = same implied 'source' for multiple stage locations, since the angle = would change as the light moved. For some plays, the angle of light is = important to establishing realism (ie - the sun always sets to the side, = SR). - Steven (sjh [at] idm.com) --------------------------- http://www.stagelights.info > FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: >> Compromises always have to be made. Personally, I have seldom been=20 >> concerned >> about the exact placement of a lantern. A foot either way usually=20 >> makes little >> difference. > >Frank, isn't this contrary to your entire "anti-moving light" argument? = >I thought in your posts you stated angle was everything and multiple=20 >lights hung at exact positions was far superior than a single moving=20 >light with multiple color, gobo, and focus capabilities due to=20 >the fact=20 >it wouldn't be in the exact position it needed to be. > >Sorry to all for lighting this fuse again but is anyone else screaming=20 >on the inside? ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20051102124646.03ae7918 [at] 192.168.0.13> Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:48:00 -0800 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Lighting angle/was Catwalk Policy Advice In-Reply-To: References: At 12:44 PM 11/2/2005, you wrote: >I've used moving lights in exactly that way, but in one position >it's late-afternoon sunlight from the side, and in another it's backlight. Then there's movies and TV where people have 3 shadows on a beach (bright moon and Venus today?). :( -- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20051102212050.81571.qmail [at] web33105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 13:20:50 -0800 (PST) From: June Abernathy Subject: Re: Working alone and catwalks >I was about to take offense at Doom's statement "and >so many catwalks are death traps in the theaters in >this country" but perhaps they are. >I endeavor to assure convenient and very high quality >technical circulation and access in buildings I >consult on, meaning no ducts or braces to >duck or crawl under, good and convenient >illumination, regulation compliant >railings, and so on. >I obviously see and experience catwalks in these >facilities more than average facilities. So, maybe >Doom is correct in proclaiming many catwalks in >entertainment facilities "death traps". >Still, I don't find many incidents reported where >someone has been injured or killed in connection with >proper use of catwalks, so what is the story? >Having been a proponent for many code changes that >impact the design of catwalks, what's not working and >what is working? Where are the incidents >that result in injury? Well, Bill, I don't know how many buildings you have consulted on, but I hope I go into one some day. I've experienced a lot of catwalks in a lot of theaters across the US in the last 10 years. Since I'm generally in charge of hanging and focusing front light for the tours I've been on, not to mention getting to the spot booths (sometimes with large spotlights), I've crawled through my share of ceilings. I don't know that I've visited a representative sampling of entertainment facilities in the US, but I think I'm safe in saying that I've visited a representative sampling of the theaters that book in Broadway road shows, as well as a few Arenas and Convention Centers and such. Some are nicer than others, for sure. The newly built buildings are the best, of course, and the newly renovated buildings are often nice. Old vaudeville/movie houses with structure that has been there since forever are generally the worst. But: >"no ducts or braces to duck or crawl under, good and >convenient illumination, regulation compliant >railings, and so on." Well, that is much more the exception than the rule. I consider myself supremely lucky if I can stand upright and don't have to crawl over or under any ducts or braces. (In one theater (Tuscon?) you have to crawl THROUGH an air conditioning duct to get to the FOH cove. Little door on either side. Hot or cold air in the middle depending on the season. Wierd.)If there is enough illumination to navigate without a flashlight, bonus! Enough circuits, and they are marked, and they work? Hooray! A DMX dry line to backstage? Double Hooray! In many places, particularly where the catwalks are in a cove lighting position, hanging the lights where they have a decent shot at the stage takes some creativity with sidearms and jumpers, which can make focusing a real stretch. It's particularly bad if you have gear that no one was considering when they built the coves, like ETC 10deg lenses, or scrollers. In many places, getting instruments and gear up into the cove in the first place is no picnic. A free catwalk over the house is no big deal. You can drop a rope and pull up your stuff. If it's a cove, and the cove opening is big enough to let the lamps and gear pass through, and if it is not permanently walled over with chicken wire (I've seen this in several educational facilities, presumably to avoid dropped gel and such), and if you can see to drop a rope in, you can still pull stuff up from the floor. (It's great if there is a place to tie a rope or hang a shiv overhead, rather than having to use the top rail of the catwalk as an anchor point. It's really great if the house has a permanent one that lives there.) If you can't pull stuff up, you may end up hauling it up a succession of ladders and through whatever route a human must take to reach a cove. Do I think most of these places are "deathtraps"? No. Annoying, hot, incovenient, dirty, ill - lit, yes. The most dangerous part is usually the risk of dropping something from above, I think. Whether it's something you are pulling up or maneuvering into position to hang, or whether it's something kicked off a catwalk. A lot of these places have crap all over the catwalks. Old gel and frames, lamps, pieces of wood, cables, tie line, rope, scraps of carpet, etc. It's annoying, sometimes slippery. Probably a fire hazard. It's often hot up in the catwalks, no matter what the weather or climate control is doing below. Could you fall off one? Sure, particularly if you have to stretch to hang or focus a lamp that you have to hang in a deeply incovenient place in order to make your shot. Some of them are badly maintained, and they have rusted out places in the floor, or sections that are just boards laid over I-beams, or railings that look none too sturdy. Some have no lower railing (some of these have a chain to put in place when you don't need the opening), and some have a removeable lower railing. The little chains and removeable railings don't always get put back. The most likely way to hurt yourself? Well, in my unscientific opinion, it would probably be braining yourself on a beam up there. I've seen people actually knock themselves out, and I've been close a time or two myself. I don't think most catwalks that I've encountered are "deathtraps". But there are dangers, for sure. June Abernathy IATSE #321 (Tampa, FL) FOH Electrician The Lion King National Tour (Gazelle) __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <436931EF.1ABF1D58 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 16:38:55 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Organization: The fuzz in the back of the fridge. Subject: Re: Falling distance References: "G. D. George" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Collapse and roll, baby, collapse and roll... > J > > For the record, how _does_ one fall 18' from a catwalk safely? For the sake > of argument, let's assume the floor is flat, bumps and bruises are > acceptable but broken bones are not, and that you can choose your body > position when you land - i.e. you didn't pitch out headfirst when trying to > lean out to focus that last light right before going home. The army teaches people how to do this all the time. They call it the Parachute Landing Fall. Basically as your feet hit the ground, you push yourself sideways, converting your vertical motion into horizontal motion that then gets dissipated in an undignified sprawl. For many examples of this, watch A Bridge Too Far, the paratroops landing scene. --Dale ------------------------------ From: "Richard Wolpert" Subject: RE: Falling distance Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:08:09 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: The PLF works, provided you've practiced it and have good form. A minor misalignment can cause an injury. That's why the military has you practice for so long on the jump towers before even getting aboard the aircraft. And the intent of the sideways motion is to absorb the impact on the calves, thighs and triceps, rather than the feet and knee joints. That's one of the reasons for all the calisthenics and running at jump school. The body absorbs the force over a greater area than just the feet. Even with the training and exercise, there's still lots of troopers hobbling around Ft. Benning with casts and Ace bandages on! So the answer for what to do in an 18' drop, if you have the time and wherewithal to get into position, etc.... Feet together, chin tucked into your chest, knees bent, land on the balls of your feet, roll over onto your legs and shoulder, pull the cell phone out of it's holder, call 911. Richard A.Wolpert President Union Connector Co., Inc. 40 Dale Street West Babylon, NY 11704 Ph: 631-753-9550 ext. 204 Fx: 631-753-9560 richw [at] unionconnector.com The army teaches people how to do this all the time. They call it the Parachute Landing Fall. Basically as your feet hit the ground, you push yourself sideways, converting your vertical motion into horizontal motion that then gets dissipated in an undignified sprawl. For many examples of this, watch A Bridge Too Far, the paratroops landing scene. --Dale ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <8D0A7034-A4CE-4B36-ACC2-EAB0DFEDAE0A [at] hillmardesign.com> From: gregg hillmar Subject: Re: Personnel lift recommendations Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:36:54 -0500 oddly enough I've been looking for exactly the same info for a local college. I've found a JLG model that was pretty nice, but more than our budget allows. As I recall, the JLG website was much easier to find info than the Genie site... I've got the local rental house looking for a used version. g. _____________________ gregg hillmar scenic & lighting design portfolio & life as we know it: http://www.hillmardesign.com "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like no one's watching." Satchel Paige On Nov 2, 2005, at 12:34 PM, Jon Ares wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see stagecraft.theprices.net/> > --------------------------------------------------- > > I know this comes up about every 3-4 months, but now some PTBs are > asking for info by the end of the week, and the archives are > playing the silent game right now... > > I'm looking for model numbers and ballpark figures for personnel > lifts... it's been years since I've been shopping for one, and > Genie's website is a bit... how shall we say? hard to find what you > need (you have to go through every model of everything to find what > you need). I'm looking for a single-person bucket personnel lift > that will fit through doors (preferably) and (also preferably) > outrigger-less. Platform height probably doesn't need to exceed > about 15' (with a working height of 20-21'). AC is probably > slightly preferable to DC, since batteries seem to die when you > really don't want them to (and don't stay charged very long). > > So, those of you who have bought one for your facility in the last > year or so, what did you get? And how much? TIA. > > - Jon Ares > www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1130971367.436940e75607b [at] webmail.bard.edu> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:42:47 -0500 From: doran [at] bard.edu Subject: Re: Noises Off -- mock fish oil References: In-Reply-To: Randy, Try one of your local bakeries. They have access to gallon cans (or larger) of egg whites. It's not too expensive, relatively speaking, and maybe they can hook you up with their supplier, or buy some on your behalf. Man, I just knew those jobs would come in handy later in life. Good luck, Andy Champ-Doran Quoting "Storms, Randy" : > Does anyone have a suggestion for a non-toxic, non staining substance to > simulate fish oil for our Noises Off "sardines"? At one point they get dumped > on an actors head... > A local props guy uses egg whites, but spoilage issues aside, I'd rather not be separating eggs for the next three weeks. > Randy Storms > rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 17:50:53 -0500 From: "Steve B." Subject: Re: Personnel lift recommendations Message-id: <008401c5dfff$e1028360$6601a8c0 [at] SBFF> References: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Ares" >I'm looking for a single-person bucket personnel lift that will fit >through doors (preferably) and (also preferably) outrigger-less. Platform >height probably doesn't need to exceed about 15' (with a working height of >20-21'). AC is probably slightly preferable to DC, since batteries seem to >die when you really don't want them to (and don't stay charged very long). We also purchased a JLG Model 20DVL, ours having the extended bucket option. It's a terrific unit, very easy to manouvre, free's up a crew member to do something else (instead of pushing the unit around, though we keep a spotter on deck with the unit, when it's busy on stage). Pro's: as compared to our ancient Genie personal-that-should-have-had-outriggers-in-use-all-the-time-but-didn't-lift - Goes thru doorways - Very easy to manouvre (it really is) - One person can use it, though it's good practice to have someone else around....... See Catwalks...... - Small footprint - No outriggers - D.C., no A.C. cord to keep track of, my preference after +20 years of an A.C. only Genie - Much safer then the old Genie with no outriggers. Cons: - Very heavy at 2000 lbs or so - Expensive - I believe we paid close to $10,000 - You need to keep it charged. - Only goes to +19'6" bottom of bucket I should note that we traded in our old Genie, picking up the JLG as well as a Genie AWP25, to go higher as needed, as well as for Dept. of Theater use. Steve Bailey Brooklyn College ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <238.32cb7e.309a9f48 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 18:01:28 EST Subject: Re: Lighting angle/was Catwalk Policy Advice In a message dated 02/11/05 20:37:48 GMT Standard Time, gbierly [at] dejazzd.com writes: > Frank, isn't this contrary to your entire "anti-moving light" argument? > I thought in your posts you stated angle was everything and multiple > lights hung at exact positions was far superior than a single moving > light with multiple color, gobo, and focus capabilities due to the fact > it wouldn't be in the exact position it needed to be. Not as I see it. Moving lights come from fixed positions. Whether they are pointing USL or DSR, they are in the same place. I want my light sources in the right positions, within what I can do. Let me face it: my own convenience figures into the equation. Thirty years ago, I should have tried to achieve the exact right position. But then, I should have known less well where it was. It is a difficult balance to achieve. I look at the permanent FOH rigs of opera houses, and sometimes think that they are not helping the show. You have to do the best you can with what you have. Instruments, positions, power supply, whatever. That's why you call yourself a Lighting Designer. Sometimes, we fail. I have just done that on our current show. It just wouldn't come together, and one of my colleagues took it on. Better than that I should have been at cross purposes with the director. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "dolly" Subject: RE: Noises Off -- mock fish oil Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 18:48:08 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <20051102234743.XTUO15391.relay-1.smtp1.dejazzd.com [at] MICHELE> Cooked okra water -- really shiney and slimey -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Storms, Randy Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:16 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Noises Off -- mock fish oil For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Does anyone have a suggestion for a non-toxic, non staining substance to simulate fish oil for our Noises Off "sardines"? At one point they get dumped on an actors head... A local props guy uses egg whites, but spoilage issues aside, I'd rather not be separating eggs for the next three weeks. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Randy Storms rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 19:26:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Let us know when you do cool stuff! Uncle Bill's Today Show gig From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Well, it ain't television but there's some pretty cool stuff in an upcoming issue of Vanity Fair magazine. It's not all that dissimilar to the Today Show gig. Can't tell you more until it's out, which I think is December or January. Ah, the things we do to make a living. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 11/2/05 8:02 AM, "Eric Rouse" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > ------------------------------------------- > -------- Hey everybody (and Bill), When you do a gig that will be televised, > give us a heads up ahead of time so we can tape it or tell students to watch > it. I love taping stuff like that, awards shows, etc... Students hardly ever > watch them and yet they are a great way to show them what else they might be > able to do with their theatre degree. There's only so many times my students, > or I for that matter, can stomach my Foy days Peter Pan videos! Thanks > all! -- Eric Rouse TD-Penn State University State College, PA ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <872EB81B-5E9C-4D63-85AE-CF5EAE2DC7D0 [at] appstate.edu> From: Greg Williams Subject: Re: Let us know when you do cool stuff! Uncle Bill's Today Show gig Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 20:46:21 -0500 Well, it won't be televised or in Vanity Fair, but everyone is welcome to come to the ESTA Booth at LDI on Friday morning at 10 for a big ol' announcement. I don't think I'm at liberty to say much more (not sure what's out there in the public yet), but it will be big fun! Bring along a few $ for a chance at a large and valuable prize, and you'll also get to see me, Uncle Bill, and the Lady Alice in leathers (riding leathers... _riding_ leathers!). -=Greg=- On Nov 2, 2005, at 7:26 PM, Bill Sapsis wrote: > Well, it ain't television but there's some pretty cool stuff in an > upcoming > issue of Vanity Fair magazine. It's not all that dissimilar to the > Today > Show gig. Can't tell you more until it's out, which I think is > December or > January. > > Ah, the things we do to make a living. > Bill S. > -=Greg Williams=- Production Manager Valborg Theatre, Appalachian State University www.LRLR.org - 2006 ride dates July 9-18 - c'mon and join us! ------------------------------ Subject: house crew vs. local heads Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 20:03:43 -0600 Message-ID: <6DEB30C6AE5BD04A89FB80FE532FD249F095DD [at] HCPADC02B.hcpa.com> From: After an extended absence, I return to seek the wisdom of "The List." =A0 Does anyone have a situation where the House Crew or House Heads are = bumped by a presenter's local Dept. Heads? =A0I inherited an arrangement = where the House Crew is Head Carpenter, Head Electrician, and Head = Sound, but one presenter in particular brings in their own full set of = Heads, which creates confusion, tension and billing controversies. =A0 Just thought I would ask before adjusting the orientation of the apple = cart. =A0 Thanks, Scott Stewart =A0 =A0 ------------------------------ Subject: RE: house crew vs. local heads Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 21:33:30 -0500 Message-ID: From: "James, Brian" In my theaters, the house crew always makes up the department heads. = However, we also had to rearrange the apple cart when I arrived....... -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of scott.stewart [at] hcpa.com Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:04 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: house crew vs. local heads For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- After an extended absence, I return to seek the wisdom of "The List." =A0 Does anyone have a situation where the House Crew or House Heads are = bumped by a presenter's local Dept. Heads? =A0I inherited an arrangement = where the House Crew is Head Carpenter, Head Electrician, and Head = Sound, but one presenter in particular brings in their own full set of = Heads, which creates confusion, tension and billing controversies. =A0 Just thought I would ask before adjusting the orientation of the apple = cart. =A0 Thanks, Scott Stewart =A0 =A0 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 22:18:29 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: house crew vs. local heads In-reply-to: Message-id: <43698185.4070406 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: scott.stewart [at] hcpa.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > After an extended absence, I return to seek the wisdom of "The List." > > Does anyone have a situation where the House Crew or House Heads are bumped by a presenter's local Dept. Heads? I inherited an arrangement where the House Crew is Head Carpenter, Head Electrician, and Head Sound, but one presenter in particular brings in their own full set of Heads, which creates confusion, tension and billing controversies. > > Just thought I would ask before adjusting the orientation of the apple cart. Many moons ago I was in a similar situation. I was the House Electrician/Dept Head at a local college road house. For assorted reasons, the theatre converted to a Union Shop, but I was not offered a card. However, for every event I was hired in as the Dept Head. Boy was that awkward. I had to stop working there, as I stopped getting Union calls because of that arrangement. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <436986E0.7D7445A2 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 22:41:20 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Organization: The fuzz in the back of the fridge. Subject: Re: house crew vs. local heads References: scott.stewart [at] hcpa.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > After an extended absence, I return to seek the wisdom of "The List." > > Does anyone have a situation where the House Crew or House Heads are bumped by a presenter's local Dept. Heads? I inherited an arrangement where the House Crew is Head Carpenter, Head Electrician, and Head Sound, but one presenter in particular brings in their own full set of Heads, which creates confusion, tension and billing controversies. > > Just thought I would ask before adjusting the orientation of the apple cart. > > Thanks, > Scott Stewart > > Like many peopleology issues, it depends. For a touring show situation, the tour crew is pretty much the boss, modulo the touring crew wanting to do something that is hazardous and or damaging to the venue. For a hall that rents out to folks who are clueless about theaters, then you have to be the local expert and diplomat. Talking them out of the more dangerous things and guiding them to solutions that fit everyone's needs. You may find this easier to think of yourself as wearing two or more different hats. First you are the representative of the owner of the venue. On the other paw, you are skilled local labor, that knows the venue, but probably not the show going in. Or is this a pay rate issue? I mostly do gigs in hotels and convention centers, where there isn't really an in-house crew, or if there is, they are mostly concerned with keeping the damage to a minimum and milking the maximum amount of billables from the client. --Dale ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 04:15:12 GMT Subject: Re: Personnel lift recommendations Message-Id: <20051102.201512.17789.66872 [at] webmail30.lax.untd.com> I prefer Condors, once you get them on the stage. Their wheelbase is wid= er than a Genie's, but they are safer as you don't need outriggers. /s/ Richard Jon Ares wrote: > I know this comes up about every 3-4 months, but now some PTBs are = > asking for info by the end of the week,Steve L. ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #571 *****************************