Return-Path: <stagecraft-report [at] theatrical.net>
X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp
X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)!
X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net
Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10)
  with PIPE id 25519335; Mon, 14 Nov 2005 03:01:11 -0800
X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:stagecraft-off [at] theatrical.net>
List-ID: <stagecraft.theatrical.net>
Message-ID: <list-25519331 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
Sender: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
Precedence: list
Subject: Stagecraft Digest #583
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 03:00:34 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Disposition: inline
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 
	autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.4
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on prxy.net
X-Spam-Level: 
X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2
X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Stagecraft Digest, Issue #583

 1. Re: Strange locking rails
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
 2. lowest bidder
    by b Ricie <b_ricie [at] yahoo.com>
 3. Lowest bidder
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
 4. Re: fire sprinkler installation
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
 5. coffee stains
    by b Ricie <b_ricie [at] yahoo.com>
 6. Re: Strange locking rails
    by "Bill Conner" <bill-conner [at] att.net>
 7. Re: fire sprinkler installation
    by "Bill Conner" <bill-conner [at] att.net>
 8. Re: fire sprinkler installation
    by "Bill Conner" <bill-conner [at] att.net>
 9. Re: fire sprinkler installation
    by MissWisc [at] aol.com
10. Re: fire sprinkler installation
    by Greg Bierly <gbierly [at] dejazzd.com>
11. Re: Preventing color burn out
    by "Laura McMeley" <LMcMeley [at] msn.com>
12. Re: Downlight wash fixtures  (was Preventing color burn out)
    by "Laura McMeley" <LMcMeley [at] msn.com>

*** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject
*** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to
*** one message subject in each reply.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-ID: <43776736.4030901 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 11:17:58 -0500
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Reply-To:  Rees [at] fredonia.edu
Subject: Re: Strange locking rails
References: <list-25479411 [at] prxy.net>

Steve,
Please see my earlier note.  The Tiffin system is still there and as 
maddening as ever. :(
Steve Rees

Waxler, Steve (waxlers) wrote:
   I seem to recall that they did put that system
> with the "dead man" into Catholic University but went back a year or so
> later and removed it.  The folks there found it very restricting and
> difficult to use.


------------------------------

Message-ID: <20051113162153.8813.qmail [at] web50603.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 08:21:53 -0800 (PST)
From: b Ricie <b_ricie [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: lowest bidder
In-Reply-To: <list-25501207 [at] prxy.net>


> How many times have we seen job
> openings that requiring skill sets that would have
> cost bundles to get yet the pay scale is barley
enough
> to live on?


>There have been jobs/gigs I wish they'd paid me in
>barley - and hops, 
>too.

See, Just the thought of such injustice makes me want
to drink.

Brian Rice 
508-685-0716
b_ricie [at] yahoo.com
"Blessed are the cracked: For it is they who let in the 
light."


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20051113092921.00b76ec8 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 09:29:21
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: Lowest bidder

>Now, "He" calls a number of
>times a week for guidance, advice, or just to rant.
>Why is he there? Because he was the lowest bidder. I
>feel it is my duty as an ex instructor to support him,

Your duty to instruct him ended when you were no longer being paid to
instruct him.  When his employers hired a recently graduated student, they
did so because they weren't willing to pay for the experience that you
bring to the table.  If you provide them with that experience for free, you
are setting a precedent.  With management, if it's not *thier* problem,
it's not a problem, and therefore doesn't require consideration, much less
a solution.  Explain this to your ex-student, apologize, and suggest that
he take this up with his superiors.  He should apply for monies to provide
for continuing education hours.
Its not quite cricket to simultaneously complain and enable a situation.
You're either part of the problem, or part of the solution.  Don't get me
wrong, I might be doing the same thing in your shoes, but with the benefit
of being able to stand back and look at it from an uninvolved position, it
looks as if you need to let the kid dangle.
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				MON AZ

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20051113093507.00b76ec8 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 09:35:07
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: Re: fire sprinkler installation

>I agree with this, except about the crookedness. Perhaps it is more common 
>where you are. But many people who undertake such work cannot tell their
coccyx 
>from their humerus. On an ordinary building site, they may be reasonably 
>capable. But, in doing work in a theatre, they are completely out of their
depth.

Cheez, Frank, you could have just said "I agree with you".  The statement I
made gave two options, and if one isn't applicable, the other must be.  
Read all of the post.  Twice.  
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				MON AZ

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

Message-ID: <20051113165608.94650.qmail [at] web50604.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 08:56:08 -0800 (PST)
From: b Ricie <b_ricie [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: coffee stains
In-Reply-To: <list-25501207 [at] prxy.net>

I once had a fairly picky instructor in college who
would pour over draftings with a magnifying glass. He
would find everything wrong with the drawings and red
mark the problems. I usually had my drawing returned
with dozens of little red circles and a "watch the
coffee stains" remark. To this day I still have Coffee
Stain Productions on my business card. I have found
over the years that that little phrase has brought me
much repeat business. Apparently is is easier to
remember food things than it is proper names. As long
as they keep calling I am happy to be known as the
Coffee stain guy.


Brian Rice 
508-685-0716
b_ricie [at] yahoo.com
"Blessed are the cracked: For it is they who let in the 
light."


	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Message-ID: <003301c5e88a$5e3c2ce0$6401a8c0 [at] BCA1>
Reply-To: "Bill Conner" <bill [at] bcaworld.com>
From: "Bill Conner" <bill-conner [at] att.net>
References: <list-25501207 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: Strange locking rails
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 13:42:16 -0600

I agree with Bill's statement with only a slight change.  He posted "The 
lack of a grid or loading bridge, or the incorrect placement of the loading 
bridge, is normally the result of an economic decision or just plain 
stupidity."  And I would suggest: "The lack of a grid or loading bridge, or 
the incorrect placement of the loading bridge, is normally the result just 
plain stupidity which some people will blame on an economic decision." 
Tempting to repeat that insipid line from Forrest Gump....

These are indeed unique buildings and the trials and tribulations of 
construction often make it hard to get it built the way one plans it.  So 
many people have posted here the importance of field representation during 
construction even after thorough planning and plan checking.  Things still 
go awry in construction.  Just heard the story of a stage with grid and in 
checking it out during construction someone found the mechanical contractor 
had mistakenly installed a lot of equipment on the gridiron rather than on 
the roof!  I'm sure it was a fight to get it moved even though the 
contractor clearly erred.

You can put a note on every drawing "do not put anything under this beam" or 
"in front of this catwalk" and at least half - if not 90% - of the time 
something will show up there -sprinkler, duct, roof drain - and it will be a 
fight to get it moved, usually with threats of delay of opening attached.

It is no where near as easy as a scene designer telling a carpenter to 
change something - of course most tradesmen in construction don't jack about 
a stage.  Hell, most of the design team doesn't.  Very frustrating to try to 
educate a design architect about the whys of a detail and find in the 
construction document phase it's all new people from the architect and then 
when construction rolls around another new face takes over so any 
accumulated knowledge is lost.  And they reduced the theatre consultants fee 
by reducing field visits.

Sorry for the rant.

Bill

Bill



------------------------------

Message-ID: <003701c5e88e$25972670$6401a8c0 [at] BCA1>
Reply-To: "Bill Conner" <bill [at] bcaworld.com>
From: "Bill Conner" <bill-conner [at] att.net>
Subject:  RE: fire sprinkler installation
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 14:09:20 -0600

Peter discuss the plans but I find today most sprinkler systems are designed 
by the contractor based on vary brief direction on the drawings - tantamount 
to saying the area is sprinklered and may be what hazard level.  The 
contractor works with their designer and their insurance company reviewing 
(yes - someone working for an insurance company reviews sprinkler designs) 
and they show up.  (And if you ever hear 'design-build' run screaming. 
That's where the contractors actually design everything!)

Of course after so many reviews by unnamed souls in far away places, it 
takes an act of congress to get them changed - if you do get to review - 
something I include in my contracts as necessary.

Easy to say it's either bad specs or fraud.  The manner in which 
construction is designed and delivered today makes it a lot different than 
even 10 years ago and between worldwide unrest, oil shortages, and natural 
disasters, the cost increases just make all the problems much worse.  A big 
building takes 12-18 months to design - imagine having to erase 15-20% of 
the building's cost because of Katrina during the last six months of design! 
Unfortunately it isn't as easy as Walt Jones use to say at Yale "Cut the sea 
battle".

Bill

Bill 


------------------------------

Message-ID: <003b01c5e88f$197c21a0$6401a8c0 [at] BCA1>
Reply-To: "Bill Conner" <bill [at] bcaworld.com>
From: "Bill Conner" <bill-conner [at] att.net>
Subject: Re: fire sprinkler installation
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 14:16:14 -0600

Frank wrote:  "No part of the installation shall interfere with the normal 
use of the theatre." as a note on drawings or in specs.

Never work over here.  You need it on every drawing but since the sprinkler 
drawings are prepared by the sprinkler contractor, no one on the design team 
can get the not on those drawings.

It is gotten right sometimes.  If bad enough, things get moved.  But it is 
not easy.  I'm always think defensively while deigning, trying to consider 
how that pipe is going to rise and suggest framing or whatever that makes it 
easier for the sprinkler contractor to install it out of the way.

Bill


------------------------------

From: MissWisc [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <20e.e2ec7aa.30a8fa0c [at] aol.com>
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 15:20:28 EST
Subject: Re: fire sprinkler installation

We've certainly talked about a lot of places  where things are messed up... 
what are some venues where "they" did it  right?

Kristi  


------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-25509042 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-25509042 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <491f8419e1b0be94c60ca5e03e5ca805 [at] dejazzd.com>
From: Greg Bierly <gbierly [at] dejazzd.com>
Subject: Re: fire sprinkler installation
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 23:19:23 -0500

> what are some venues where "they" did it  right?

Is there such a thing as a perfect venue?  They came pretty close here 
except the flyspace, the houselighting, lobby, and a few other "minor" 
things.  (I am not complaining I have a GREAT venue for a high school)  
I have seen some really nice venues but I am sure there will always be 
something else someone could have done.


Greg Bierly
Technical Director
Hempfield HS


------------------------------

Message-ID: <BAY103-DAV19D9BB13074291BD79E9CDF5A0 [at] phx.gbl>
From: "Laura McMeley" <LMcMeley [at] msn.com>
Subject: RE: Preventing color burn out
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:46:31 -0600
In-Reply-To: <list-25419984 [at] prxy.net>

Thanks for this thought. The HT gel was still not enough to last through
even 1 full performance. I suggested that we try substituting a color with
more transmission. The designer said that he just needed something which was
a darker blue than L161, so I took a good look at the swatch books and found
that R79 was a very close match with 8% transmission, not as dark as the
L119 but since we were effectively getting white light by the end of the
show, it was an acceptable substitution. Wolfgang accepted the suggestion
and we have now made it through 2 shows without a gel change. We may need to
change it once more before we're through, but that's better than we were
getting before. While I agree with an earlier comment that the designer
should get what he has requested, this has shown me that discovering the
designers real needs can sometimes allow for suggesting a solution which he
or she might not have thought of. It never hurts to have a second mind
working on the problem, or in this case a whole list full of minds. Thanks
for the help guys.

Laura

> Lee 119 is very close to my favorite for this type of use - Rosco 74.
> L119 has a 3.1% transmission, while R74 has a 4.0%.  That doesn't sound
> like much, but it will help - anything that lets more light thru will burn
> a bit cooler.  And I've good results w/R74 not burning as quickly - one of
> the reasons I use it so often.
> 
> So, in addition to the other suggestions, I'd recommend trying R74 instead
> of L119.
> 
> 
> - Steven      (sjh [at] idm.com)
> ---------------------------
> http://www.stagelights.info


------------------------------

Message-ID: <BAY103-DAV7327390EA88C45EC822A0DF5A0 [at] phx.gbl>
From: "Laura McMeley" <LMcMeley [at] msn.com>
Subject: RE: Downlight wash fixtures  (was Preventing color burn out)
Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:51:50 -0600
In-Reply-To: <list-25435903 [at] prxy.net>

Here at the opera a 2k wash is a little unusual. Typically we would see
parcans or 1k fresnels. Our typical trim is around 35' to 40' ft. I am told
that the use of very bright lights is typical of German designers. He also
had 3 5k's on the ground and a 2.5k HMI in the air. And he would have used
more HMI's if we could have afforded them.

Laura McMeley
Resident Lighting Coordinator
The Dallas Opera


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Steven
> Haworth
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:23 PM
> To: Stagecraft
> Subject: Downlight wash fixtures (was Preventing color burn out)
> 
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> But apart from Frank's style, isn't a 2k fresnel overkill for a downlight
> wash?  Maybe useful from a really high trim, but it seems like an unusual
> choice to me (but then again I don't know the specifics of the design or
> the venue).  And I've only used a 2k fresnel once myself (a old 10", as a
> sort of key-light on a really large thrust stage) - they are fun & punchy,
> but darned hot.  And the filaments respond pretty slowly.
> 
> So what is a typical instrument for such washes?  In the US, I've seen 1k
> 8" fresnels, Par64s, S4 pars or (from higher trims) ellips used. From
> lower trims, I've often used 6" fresnels. What else do people use?
> 
> 
> - Steven      (sjh [at] idm.com)
> ---------------------------
> http://www.stagelights.info

------------------------------

End of Stagecraft Digest #583
*****************************