Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 25609386; Sat, 19 Nov 2005 03:01:43 -0800 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #590 Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 03:00:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on prxy.net X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.4 X-Spam-Level: X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #590 1. Re: A show called firedance by Delbert Hall 2. Re: Gas Smell... by "Ray-Pfeifer, Merel" 3. Re: Sales - It's not just a plaid jacket by MissWisc [at] aol.com 4. Automated fixtures (Was in the DMX-512 thread... Oops) by "G. D. George" 5. Re: Gas Smell... by Bruce Purdy 6. Re: Gas Smell... by Charles Fraser 7. Re: Sales - It's not just a plaid jacket by Bruce Purdy 8. Re: Gas Smell... by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 9. Re: Gas Smell... by "Paul Schreiner" 10. Re: Gas Smell... by Charles Fraser 11. Re: Certification info. by Dale Farmer 12. Undeliverable mail: Re: Cue Calling Software by Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com 13. Re: Gas Smell... by "Frank E. Merrill" 14. Re: Certification info. by Bill Sapsis 15. Re: Crew calling software by Jim Hyslop 16. Re: Crew calling software by Jim Hyslop 17. Re: Crew calling software by Jerry Durand 18. Re: Gas Smell... by "Matthew Breton" 19. Re: Certification info. by Dale Farmer 20. Graduating Senior Web Pages by Mark Harvey 21. Re: Certification info. by Bill Sapsis 22. Re: Certification info. by Bill Sapsis 23. Re: Crew calling software by Jim Hyslop 24. Re: Gas Smell... by Jim Hyslop 25. Re: Crew calling software by Jerry Durand 26. Re: Certification info. by Wood Chip-P26398 27. Re: Crew calling software by CB 28. Re: Gas Smell... by "Michael Finney" 29. Re: Gas Smell... by Mark O'Brien 30. Re: Gas Smell... by Jerry Durand 31. Re: Crew calling software by Wood Chip-P26398 32. Re: Certification info. (long) by MissWisc [at] aol.com 33. Re: Crew calling software by Jim Hyslop 34. Re: Gas Smell... by MissWisc [at] aol.com 35. Re: Certification info. (long) by "Jeffrey Kanyuck" 36. A laugh for the weekend by Steve Larson 37. Re: A laugh for the weekend by Mark O'Brien 38. Re: Certification info. (long) by Bill Sapsis 39. Re: Crew calling software by Charlie Richmond 40. Re: A laugh for the weekend by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 41. Re: A laugh for the weekend by Steve Larson 42. Re: Sales - It's not just a plaid jacket by Stuart Wheaton 43. Re: Sales - It's not just a plaid jacket by Bill Sapsis 44. Re: Sales - It's not just a plaid jacket by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 45. Strand Independant Subs by "Riter, Andrew (Head Ltg)" 46. Re: Strand Independent Subs by "Storms, Randy" 47. Re: Certification info. by Greg Bierly 48. Re: Certification info. by "RD" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:31:53 -0500 From: Delbert Hall Subject: Re: A show called firedance In-Reply-To: References: I have written hundreds of contracts to do work for various theatre groups and 99% of these contracts have been one page long. In my contracts I try to simply and plainly state: 1) what am I doing for the client and when am I doing it, 2) what is the client doing for me (pay, program credit, materials provided by client, etc) and when is the client doing these things, and 3) when does this agreement go into effect and how can it be amended or terminated. That is all. IMHO, the purpose of the contract is to CLARIFY exactly what is expected from both parties. If the contract is full of legal jargon and ambiguous statements, it muddys the water of understading rather than clairifying what is expected. I believe that if a person or company is untrustworthy, no fancy wording in a contact will make them trustworthy. If you don't trust a person or company - don't do business with them. Period. Contracts are like door locks - they keep honest people honest. Neither really stop dishonest people. -Delbert -- Delbert L. Hall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:57:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Gas Smell... From: "Ray-Pfeifer, Merel" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Before you do anything with chemicals and audience read the MSDS. Consider the warnings we do when we use fag and do you really want to expose your actors and crew as well as the audience to this? Benzene ain't good for you. Besides that consider how most people react to certain smells, gas is one that usually sends them looking for a way out before something catches fire or explodes. The House Manager will thank you if you don't do this. -- Merel Ray-Pfeifer Technical Director Dept of Speech Comm. & Dramatic Arts Central Michigan University Mt Pleasant, MI 48858 989/774-6594 On 11/17/05 11:16 PM, "Dale Farmer" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > Heather Hillhouse-Deans wrote: > >> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> Hi All- I've tried looking at the Archives, and for the brief period I >> was able to access it, I found some good info, but from '98, and I'm >> wondering if there have been any advances on this topic.... We're >> doing /How I Learned to Drive/ in the spring, and the set/lighting >> designer has approached me about having a "gasoline smell" during the >> show.... he is imagining something that is very very low and diffuse, >> and VERY slowly builds until you actually can identify it after quite a >> while. Here are the disclaimers- I don't know if we will really do it or >> not, I know there is some disagreement on whether smell is really a good >> thing to include in performances, I know many people don't like the >> smell, I'm sure we would have some sort of lobby sign, and I don't have >> any intention of actually using gasoline. I'm just trying to find out if >> there is a source for the smell without the actual thing, and what my >> options might be. I've investigated the "smell-o-matic" I found online, >> but they only have pretty scents. Any ideas? >> Thanks- >> Heather Hillhouse-Deans >> Lehigh University >> Bethlehem, PA > > You can use benzene. It's more aromatic, has a lower flash point, > and a wider explosive range than gasoline. > > > > > > > That is to say, don't bother with this. Too damn dangerous. > > > > --Dale > ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <12d.68ed60d1.30af3eaa [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:26:50 EST Subject: Re: Sales - It's not just a plaid jacket ken.stagecraft [at] gmail.com writes: << Bill Sapsis is a salesman (whether he wants to be or not). Frank Merrill is a salesman. Barney Simon is a salesman. Delbery Hall is a salesman. Many people on this list sell - even if it doesn't say "Sales" on their business card. >> We ALL sell. Every single one of us. Several years ago I went to a day long seminar in Milwaukee featuring various speakers. One was Zig Ziglar. He went on and on about how sales is a noble profession because the ultimate goal is to help people get what they want and/or need. He says something like 'You can get whatever you want in life if you just help enough other people to get what they want." That describes sales to a T. No matter what you do - you are selling. I'd never thought about teaching as "selling knowledge" but it is exactly what it is. As a teacher, I need to convince my students that they need what I have to offer and present it to them in a way they can use it. In theatre we create a product - the show - and "sell" it to our audiences. As stagehands or designers, we "sell" our ability to do the job. The evening news "sells" us the evils of the world. When we try to convince someone of something, we're "selling" them on that idea. Your resume is your "direct mail ad" for your skills. Postings on here "sell" yourself to the other list members. And as my friend Gloria Mayfield Banks says "Think about everything you have, someone sold it to you. Your house, you car, the food you eat, the shoes you wear, even the color and style of your hair - someone sold it to you." Consider for a moment if you never "bought" anything. Naked, dirty, living outdoors, hungry... no thanks! "Nothing happens until somebody sells something." Kristi ------------------------------ From: "G. D. George" Subject: Automated fixtures (Was in the DMX-512 thread... Oops) Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:51:51 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yep, I saw that in the manual too. Unfortunately I didn't find the part that explains how to get these special channels into a cue. Closer reading will no doubt reveal such gems of knowledge. OTOH, I got the cues working by patching the wiggle lights into "normal" channels, writing everything into a "normal" cue except pan and tilt, putting pan and tilt into an effect, and attaching the effect to the cue. It was kludgy, but it works. Thanks! J G. D. George Assistant Professor and Technical Director Capital University Theatre Department of Communications 1 College and Main Columbus, OH 43209 (614) 236-6498 ggeorge [at] capital.edu -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Nelson Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 9:27 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: DMX512 For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- > For our current production, I'm setting up to cheap (American DJ--it's > what I could borrow) mirror lights to simulate spot lights in a > concentration camp guard tower. The effect should be a fairly straight > forward combination of pan and tilt cues. I've got the lights working > with our Innovator board, but cannot figure out how to write the cues. > The board > manual notes that I can program each attribute to a channel, but that this > is not the recommended way to write cues. I was under the impression that > I should write the lights into an effect, but that's not working... So... > My question is: what is / are the ways to write the cues into the board. I have never used the Innovator, so cannot help much. But the Colortran site says the board has many channels specifically designed for moving lights. There should be examples in the manual on how to do so. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:54:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Gas Smell... From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > Consider the warnings we do when we use fag and do you really want to expose > your actors and crew as well as the audience to this? I can't believe someone - especially in our profession - would have this attitude! ---- Oh, you meant FOG? Well that's very different. Never mind! Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <437DEE83.6060405 [at] charliefraser.com> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:08:51 -0500 From: Charles Fraser Subject: Re: Gas Smell... References: In-Reply-To: Early on I learned the hard way no to use smells. We were doing Deathtrap in a studio theater, one of the actors used an obscene smelling cigar. The smell was getting more pungent which we attributed to the cigar and ignored it. After about 3-5 minutes we realized the pungent smell was coming from our homemade lighting board and the wires were burning. Since then I refused to allow smells in performances after that, if I get resistance that story helps me convince the director not to do it. Charlie Ray-Pfeifer, Merel wrote: >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >Before you do anything with chemicals and audience read the MSDS. > >Consider the warnings we do when we use fag and do you really want to expose >your actors and crew as well as the audience to this? Benzene ain't good for >you. > >Besides that consider how most people react to certain smells, gas is one >that usually sends them looking for a way out before something catches fire >or explodes. The House Manager will thank you if you don't do this. > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:11:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Sales - It's not just a plaid jacket From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > Several years ago I went to a day long seminar in Milwaukee featuring > various speakers. One was Zig Ziglar. He went on and on about how sales is a > noble profession because the ultimate goal is to help people get what they want and/or need. He says something like 'You can get whatever you want in life if you just help enough other people to get what they want." I went through a heavy duty "Zig Zigler phase" several years ago - still have all of his tapes. He's made a good living "Selling" common sense - principles your parents probably tried to teach you but you weren't ready to really hear them back then. > The evening news "sells" us the evils of the world. > That's one of my pet peeves. The news should *inform* us of the facts in an unbiased manner. If they didn't "Sell us on the evils of the world", we might not be in Iraq! Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Gas Smell... Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:12:37 -0500 Message-ID: <00df01c5ec52$860587f0$6601a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > After about > 3-5 minutes we realized the pungent smell was coming from our > homemade lighting board and the wires were burning. Since > then I refused to allow smells in performances after that, if > I get resistance that story helps me convince the director > not to do it. I should think that story would help you convince *someone* that you need a safer lighting system. ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Gas Smell... Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:16:20 -0500 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A042A9A52 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" > > Consider the warnings we do when we use fag and do you=20 > really want to=20 > > expose your actors and crew as well as the audience to this? >=20 > I can't believe someone - especially in our profession -=20 > would have this attitude! ---- Personally, I wanted to see the MSDS for THIS! ------------------------------ Message-ID: <437DF31B.9020203 [at] charliefraser.com> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:28:28 -0500 From: Charles Fraser Subject: Re: Gas Smell... References: In-Reply-To: I agree and it did ;-) Note we were 17 and 18, no budget and didn't know any better. That experience taught me to be more careful and be conservative with regards to amperage when designing lighting. But, the moral at least I got out of the situation when dealing with the amount of steel, wood, rope, heat, textiles and electricity that we do smells can be an indicator that something is going wrong, and we shouldn't obscure that valuable tool. Charlie Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote: >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >>After about >>3-5 minutes we realized the pungent smell was coming from our >>homemade lighting board and the wires were burning. Since >>then I refused to allow smells in performances after that, if >>I get resistance that story helps me convince the director >>not to do it. >> >> > >I should think that story would help you convince *someone* that you need a >safer lighting system. > > > > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <437DF7F1.B2FDDB13 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:49:05 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Organization: The fuzz in the back of the fridge. Subject: Re: Certification info. References: Bill Sapsis wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Test results will not be published for about 8 weeks or so. So sayeth our > test administration company. I know that's a long time to wait but they say > they need that time to evaluate everything. This is the first test, after > all. They don't have a point of reference to score it. They have to make > one. > > And the scores will not be published. Only the names of the people who are > certified (ie. passed the test) will be published. > > Bill S. So, will there be some central place, such as the ESTA web site, where I can go check to see if soandso is certified when they claim to be so? How are they going to handle the john smith problem? --Dale ------------------------------ Subject: Undeliverable mail: Re: Cue Calling Software Message-ID: From: Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:46:11 -0500 Failed to deliver to 'stagecraft [at] theatrical.net' LIST module(list stagecraft [at] theatrical.net) reports: Your message cannot be posted. It has the content-type: multipart/alternative, and this list accepts text only Reporting-MTA: dns; prxy.net Original-Recipient: rfc822; Final-Recipient: LIST; Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 Received: from internet.sarasotagov.com ([63.148.206.3] verified) by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with ESMTP id 25585244 for stagecraft [at] theatrical.net; Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:43:56 -0800 Received-SPF: none receiver=prxy.net; client-ip=63.148.206.3; envelope-from=Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com To: "Stagecraft" Subject: Re: Cue Calling Software MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.9a January 7, 2002 Message-ID: From: Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:28:24 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on IMAIL/SARACITY(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 11/17/2005 04:52:01 PM, Serialize complete at 11/17/2005 04:52:01 PM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00760E8D852570BC_=" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:47:55 -0500 From: "Frank E. Merrill" Reply-To: "Frank E. Merrill" Message-ID: <1457027887.20051118104755 [at] tcon.net> Subject: Re: Gas Smell... In-Reply-To: References:

Howdy ! Thursday, November 17, 2005, Heather wrote: > a "gasoline smell" during the show.... Okay, everybody: Heather meant GASOLINE! We all read the subject line and immediately thought of some poor sap that had spent too much money on cheap hamburgers, but I'm the only one dopey enough to admit having the thought. Best regards, Frank E. Merrill MERRILL STAGE EQUIPMENT Indianapolis Established 1946 www.merrillstage.com Running THE BAT! Natural e-mail system v.3.60 mailto:Lamplighter [at] tcon.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:07:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Certification info. From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Yes. It will be on the ETCP website. It's not there yet cuz we don't have any names to put there...yet. I don't know how they will deal with the John Smith problem. Good question. I'm sure we'll come up with something nifty, though. In addition, certified riggers will get a piece of paper (suitable for framing) a patch (suitable for sewing) and a photo ID card, (suitable for waving around and lauding it over everyone else in the bar). Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 11/18/05 10:49 AM, "Dale Farmer" wrote: > So, will there be some central place, such as the ESTA web site, where > I can go check to see if soandso is certified when they claim to be so? > How are they going to handle the john smith problem? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <437DDBB2.3080202 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:48:34 -0500 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: DreamPossible Inc. Subject: Re: Crew calling software References: In-Reply-To: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > Yes, it could be done. I should not like to be tasked with writing the > software. I suspect it wouldn't be too much of a challenge for anyone who's already worked with image recognition. It would, I suspect, likely be beyond consumer-grade cameras. The biggest problem would be acceptance in the theatre community. -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Message-ID: <437DDC47.7050305 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:51:03 -0500 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: DreamPossible Inc. Subject: Re: Crew calling software References: In-Reply-To: Bill Sapsis wrote: > Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Theatre, especially live theatre, is about real > live honest to goodness people. You should take the digital age only so > far. Just to play devil's advocate (or should that be "producer's advocate"... is there a difference?) here: as far as the audience is concerned, it's still about live people on stage. It's just cheaper to produce >:-> -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Crew calling software Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:42:30 -0800 On Nov 18, 2005, at 5:48 AM, Jim Hyslop wrote: > > I suspect it wouldn't be too much of a challenge for anyone who's > already worked with image recognition. It would, I suspect, likely be > beyond consumer-grade cameras. The biggest problem would be acceptance > in the theatre community. While it wouldn't detect fading, it would be fairly easy to detect melting/buring of gels. Method 1: A fine wire molded into the gel in a zig-zag pattern and designed to break when the gel distorts. Wired to a system that sounds a siren alerting everyone of the need for service. Method 2: With the lamp off, an automated tester puts a puff of air into the space between the gel and lens/heat shield. If there's a hole, the pressure doesn't go up enough and the system dials the tech's pager to replace the gel. ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Matthew Breton" Subject: RE: Gas Smell... Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:43:32 -0500 What's the set like? I've occasionally had audience members react to sets that -looked- dusty but weren't by telling me about the odors of the show. If you're looking at a picture of a rose garden, you can recall the aroma fairly easily, especially when other actors on stage mention how pretty it smells. Same thing might work for gasoline: enough other enviromental cues and people will fill in the blanks. I'd steer clear of actually doping the audience with gasoline, or any other volatile compound: all are combustible, and many contain trace amounts of other more nasty stuff that, in the quantities needed to actually smell, might prove lethal. Also, with the uncertain air movements of a theater -- even different amounts of audience members in the seating can affect the airflow, never mind lighting instruments, blocking, HVAC, or outside conditions -- an otherwise impotent amount of "non-lethal" gas might pile up in the same area, resulting in a toxic dose. I'd steer clear of bad ideas like this; you have your hands full just getting the rest of the show to run right. -- Matt ========= >From: Heather Hillhouse-Deans >Reply-To: "Stagecraft" >To: "Stagecraft" >Subject: Gas Smell... >Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:04:32 -0500 > >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >Hi All- I've tried looking at the Archives, and for the brief period I was >able to access it, I found some good info, but from '98, and I'm wondering >if there have been any advances on this topic.... We're doing /How I >Learned to Drive/ in the spring, and the set/lighting designer has >approached me about having a "gasoline smell" during the show.... he is >imagining something that is very very low and diffuse, and VERY slowly >builds until you actually can identify it after quite a while. Here are the >disclaimers- I don't know if we will really do it or not, I know there is >some disagreement on whether smell is really a good thing to include in >performances, I know many people don't like the smell, I'm sure we would >have some sort of lobby sign, and I don't have any intention of actually >using gasoline. I'm just trying to find out if there is a source for the >smell without the actual thing, and what my options might be. I've >investigated the "smell-o-matic" I found online, but they only have pretty >scents. Any ideas? >Thanks- >Heather Hillhouse-Deans >Lehigh University >Bethlehem, PA _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ------------------------------ Message-ID: <437E062D.13C80EB6 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:49:49 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Organization: The fuzz in the back of the fridge. Subject: Re: Certification info. References: Bill Sapsis wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Yes. It will be on the ETCP website. It's not there yet cuz we don't have > any names to put there...yet. I don't know how they will deal with the John > Smith problem. Good question. I'm sure we'll come up with something nifty, > though. > > In addition, certified riggers will get a piece of paper (suitable for > framing) a patch (suitable for sewing) and a photo ID card, (suitable for > waving around and lauding it over everyone else in the bar). > > Bill S. > www.sapsis-rigging.com > 800.727.7471 > 800.292.3851 fax > 267.278.4561 mobile There is also the interesting question of the facilities that have had in their work rules for many years now that "only certified riggers may be used". Yet there are, other than this new effort, no such creatures? --Dale ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:04:19 -0600 From: Mark Harvey Subject: Graduating Senior Web Pages Message-ID: Each year, the Department of Theatre at the University of Minnesota Duluth teaches graduating seniors in Design, Technical Theatre and Stage Management how to develop their own web sites as a part of their efforts to develop careers in theatre. I like to make these web sites available to this listserv for review and comment. If you're interested in taking a look at the student web sites, links to each student's web page can be found at Feel free to send ideas, comments, or suggestions to me, or directly to any of the students. Thank you. ____________________________________ Mark Harvey, Associate Professor Lighting and Sound Design Department of Theatre University of Minnesota Duluth www.d.umn.edu/~mharvey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:07:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Certification info. From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: There are a couple of venues around the country that "certify" people to work in their building. What that is supposed to mean is that the venue folks have developed some sort of test that people must take to be able to work in that venue. It's important to understand that the people who pass that test and are certified to work in that building and only that building. The concept behind certification is the ability to measure skill levels. We've done that on a national basis with the ETCP test. Venues can do it on a local basis should they so choose. My gut says that the local certifications may fade away in favor of the larger one from ETCP. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 11/18/05 11:49 AM, "Dale Farmer" wrote: > There is also the interesting question of the facilities that have had > in their work rules for many years now that "only certified riggers may > be used". Yet there are, other than this new effort, no such creatures? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:39:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Certification info. From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: OK. I just re-read that post and I don't think it came out the way I wanted it to. I want to stress that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the venue certification. Venues are perfectly within their rights to require this and I applaud their efforts. The wording I used seems to put down the venue certification concept. That was not my intention at all. I do believe, however, that the ETCP program, being a more widely held certification, will, in the long run, be more acceptable. Thanks Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 11/18/05 12:07 PM, "Bill Sapsis" wrote: > There are a couple of venues around the country that "certify" people to > work in their building. What that is supposed to mean is that the venue > folks have developed some sort of test that people must take to be able to > work in that venue. It's important to understand that the people who pass > that test and are certified to work in that building and only that building. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <437E1317.4080704 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:44:55 -0500 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: DreamPossible Inc. Subject: Re: Crew calling software References:

In-Reply-To: Jerry Durand wrote: > While it wouldn't detect fading, it would be fairly easy to detect > melting/buring of gels. Sure, it could detect fading. As the gel fades, there will be a shift in both the brightness of the picture and its colour information. The shift will be subtle, but it will be measurable - which is why I suggested that consumer-grade cameras may not be up to the task, as they may not capture detailed enough information. > > Method 1: > A fine wire molded into the gel in a zig-zag pattern and designed to > break when the gel distorts. Wired to a system that sounds a siren > alerting everyone of the need for service. And, as Murphy's law will have it, said alarm will sound at the most tender moment of a love scene... ;=) > Method 2: > With the lamp off, an automated tester puts a puff of air into the > space between the gel and lens/heat shield. If there's a hole, the > pressure doesn't go up enough and the system dials the tech's pager to > replace the gel. Hmmm... that might be a bit trickier. You could get false alarms if the gel frame's not in right (which might be a convenient way for a disgruntled technician to sabotage the system... :=) -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Message-ID: <437E166E.1060000 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:59:10 -0500 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: DreamPossible Inc. Subject: Re: Gas Smell... References:

In-Reply-To: Heather Hillhouse-Deans wrote: > doing /How I Learned to Drive/ in the spring, and the set/lighting > designer has approached me about having a "gasoline smell" during the > show.... he is imagining something that is very very low and diffuse, > and VERY slowly builds until you actually can identify it after quite a > while. How about scratch-and-sniff cards? :=) Seriously, though, assuming that you do find a feasible way to get the smell, here's something else to consider: when does the smell stop? It may be almost impossible to clear the smell from the theatre quickly. This may mean that once the smell is there, it may stay there - perhaps even lasting until the next performance, depending on how well ventilated the theatre is (and, of course, if it's well-ventilated you may never get the smell as intense as you want in the first place). -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20051118095640.029e51f8 [at] 192.168.0.13> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:01:38 -0800 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Crew calling software In-Reply-To: References:

At 09:44 AM 11/18/2005, you wrote: >Jerry Durand wrote: > > While it wouldn't detect fading, it would be fairly easy to detect > > melting/buring of gels. > >Sure, it could detect fading. As the gel fades, there will be a shift in >both the brightness of the picture and its colour information. The shift >will be subtle, but it will be measurable - which is why I suggested >that consumer-grade cameras may not be up to the task, as they may not >capture detailed enough information. But my method doesn't use a camera... >And, as Murphy's law will have it, said alarm will sound at the most >tender moment of a love scene... ;=) That's why I suggested the loud alarm. Makes theatre exciting. :) >Hmmm... that might be a bit trickier. You could get false alarms if the >gel frame's not in right (which might be a convenient way for a >disgruntled technician to sabotage the system... :=) Of course you'd know that during the very first test and fix it before it fell off. Once one of these automated systems was installed, I assume the alarm would be taped over, wires cut, etc. Normal operating procedure. Or, like happened to AT&T years ago...a power fail alarm was in a building with no people (all automated). Eventually the backup generators ran out of fuel and the New York area suddenly didn't have any telephone service. -- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <2E3198416D5E7A4FB3FEC7E6838FE36B27877F [at] ct11exm60.ds.mot.com> From: Wood Chip-P26398 Subject: RE: Certification info. Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:20:29 -0700 What is more likely to happen is a minimum of ETCP cert, with a venue cert as a requirement. The ETCP being that, in general, you are a qualified rigger, and a venue cert means that you are particularly trained in the venue's idiosyncrasies. Chip -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Sapsis Sent: 11/18/2005 10:40 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Certification info. For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- OK. I just re-read that post and I don't think it came out the way I wanted it to. I want to stress that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the venue certification. Venues are perfectly within their rights to require this and I applaud their efforts. The wording I used seems to put down the venue certification concept. That was not my intention at all. I do believe, however, that the ETCP program, being a more widely held certification, will, in the long run, be more acceptable. Thanks Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 11/18/05 12:07 PM, "Bill Sapsis" wrote: > There are a couple of venues around the country that "certify" people > to work in their building. What that is supposed to mean is that the > venue folks have developed some sort of test that people must take to > be able to work in that venue. It's important to understand that the > people who pass that test and are certified to work in that building and only that building. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20051118115833.00ce2bb8 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:58:33 From: CB Subject: Re: Crew calling software >Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Theatre, especially live theatre, is about real >live honest to goodness people. I agree. There comes a time when you start to take things too far. As in, once you get to the rehearsal stage, video tape the entire play from beginning to end. Once you get all the parts done right at least once, edit together all the best parts, and all you have to do at each theatre is hang the RP screen, set up the projector, press the button and go have dinner. Now *THAT"S* taking advantage of the digital age to its fullest. It ain't, however, live theatre. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Gas Smell... Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:31:17 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Michael Finney" On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 Heather Hillhouse-Deans wrote: <> <> Be afraid, be very afraid! Personal disclaimer - I HATE scents in attractions (they linger (sometimes 'attaching" themselves to fabrics and upholstery), they mix badly (mix three scents and it usually smells like barf!), they're a pain to maintain, and they tend to be pricey). That being said, I've run into them in any number of themed entertainment projects, and they're becoming more common in architectural applications like casinos and high end retail (I'll try to track down the Ad Week article - it's the best study I've seen so far). The two companies that I've used on projects are: Wow Works http://www.wow-works.com/sfxportfolio.pdf Air Magic Effects http://www.airmagicfx.com/ Both of them will do custom scents, and may well already have the scent you're looking for somewhere in their "library". I have another company named EnviroScent on a job right now that seems to be pretty "cutting edge", but I'm only using them for custom work....so I don't know how they do for "retail size" projects EnviroScent http://www.enviroscent.com/ In the immortal words of Unca Bill (and in honor of all he and the other folks from ESTA did to get the Certification Program off the ground) - 'zat help? Michael Finney Thinkwell Design & Production mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com www.thinkwelldesign.com =20 ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <929ad635d67e6e23d04c12600499b2fe [at] email.arizona.edu> Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien) From: Mark O'Brien Subject: Re: Gas Smell... Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:41:15 -0700 The positive WORST one of these, was at the Six Flags Power Plant, in Baltimore MD in the mid 80's They used scent cartridges affixed to the back of the seats. Compressed air would hiss though the little buggers at the appropriate times during a poorly conceived 3D movie. As I recall there were also seat shakers as well. Though the room was designed to change the air allot more than normal, that place reeked. (Probably still does) Mark-O Mark O'Brien Opera Technical Director University of Arizona, School of Music Tucson, AZ 520/621-7025 520/591-1803 Mobile Santos / McGarry in 2006 On Nov 18, 2005, at 12:31 PM, Michael Finney wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 Heather Hillhouse-Deans wrote: > <> > < without > the actual thing, and what my options might be. I've investigated the > "smell- matic" I found online, but they only have pretty scents. Any > ideas?>> > > Be afraid, be very afraid! Personal disclaimer - I HATE scents in > attractions (they linger (sometimes 'attaching" themselves to fabrics > and upholstery), they mix badly (mix three scents and it usually smells > like barf!), they're a pain to maintain, and they tend to be pricey). > > That being said, I've run into them in any number of themed > entertainment projects, and they're becoming more common in > architectural applications like casinos and high end retail (I'll try > to > track down the Ad Week article - it's the best study I've seen so far). > The two companies that I've used on projects are: > > Wow Works > http://www.wow-works.com/sfxportfolio.pdf > > Air Magic Effects > http://www.airmagicfx.com/ > > Both of them will do custom scents, and may well already have the scent > you're looking for somewhere in their "library". I have another > company > named EnviroScent on a job right now that seems to be pretty "cutting > edge", but I'm only using them for custom work....so I don't know how > they do for "retail size" projects > > EnviroScent > http://www.enviroscent.com/ > > > In the immortal words of Unca Bill (and in honor of all he and the > other folks from ESTA did to get the Certification Program off the > ground) - 'zat help? > > Michael Finney > Thinkwell Design & Production > mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com > www.thinkwelldesign.com > ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.0.20051118114443.047b2198 [at] 192.168.0.13> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:48:29 -0800 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Gas Smell... In-Reply-To: References:

At 11:41 AM 11/18/2005, you wrote: >Though the room was designed to change the air allot more than >normal, that place reeked. (Probably still does) You also become accustomed to scent levels (the same as your eyes adjust to light), so by the end of the movie, you have to get hit with a STRONG scent. Back during WW II, my mom worked in a company that made candles and moth cakes. She couldn't smell it by the end of the day at work, but she was told she could eliminate the possibility of a date from 50 paces. -- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <2E3198416D5E7A4FB3FEC7E6838FE36B2787AD [at] ct11exm60.ds.mot.com> From: Wood Chip-P26398 Subject: RE: Crew calling software Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 13:28:52 -0700 "Press the button", press the button!? Just set your PC scheduler. You can even program it "Off" for dark nights. Chip -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of CB I agree. There comes a time when you start to take things too far. As in, once you get to the rehearsal stage, video tape the entire play from beginning to end. Once you get all the parts done right at least once, edit together all the best parts, and all you have to do at each theatre is hang the RP screen, set up the projector, press the button and go have dinner. ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <22f.1bd8875.30af9470 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:32:48 EST Subject: Re: Certification info. (long) bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com writes: << The concept behind certification is the ability to measure skill levels. We've done that on a national basis with the ETCP test. Venues can do it on a local basis should they so choose. My gut says that the local certifications may fade away in favor of the larger one from ETCP. >> Bill - I dearly wish what you are saying would be true, but until the accessibility of the test is improved, it won't happen. Here's what I mean... In order to take the test the applicant must have 30 experience points. _http://etcp.esta.org/candidateinfo/riggingexams/docs/ETCPCandidateHandbook.pd f_ (http://etcp.esta.org/candidateinfo/riggingexams/docs/ETCPCandidateHandbook.pdf) That's a year and a half of full-time/40 hours a week rigging OR a Bachelors in "tech theatre" with an apprenticeship along with a year of part time rigging, etc. Does running a fly rail count? Does tying a curtain onto a batton count? I'd say no. I do both of those on a regular basis and do not consider myself to be a rigger. To me a rigger is a person who looks at what the structural engineer says the grid can hold, determines static and dynamic loads, figures out where things can hang/how they should be attached, plots it out, then physically hangs points, battons, and other "stuff" overhead. Is there a full-time job like that anywhere in the entertainment world??? Every theatre or arena I've ever worked in has maybe 4 hours on an in and 4 hours of rigging on the out with a week of performances in the middle. That's 8 hours of rigging a week max. and few venues do that week after week. Even places like Radio City where there are shows all the time won't rig 40 hours a week. Perhaps a rock show doing one nighters might get close, but even they rely on the expertise of the riggers who come with the building. My husband is a full-time stagehand, IA journeyman since 1990, has traveled the globe on various tours as well as regularly working in several venues in WI doing arena and theatrical rigging for shows as well as stage carpentry and other departments. We figured that he actually rigs about 10-12 hours a month. At 1 point per 100 hours, It would take a life time for him to even qualify to take the test, yet based on the outline of what's covered, we're confident he could pass it. Our IATSE local has an excellent (yes, I'm biased and bragging) focus on testing. We have both a written and practical exam for our apprentice members and offer seminars on various aspects of stagecraft about once each month for all our members and even offer some to permit workers. We've had Unkle Bill come and do his seminar. We've sent members to chain motor classes. We sent members to see Doom when he was in town last month. We're sending our officers and stewards to a variety of seminars, classes, and workshops. But, unless we're missing something, not a soul in our local could ever take the ESTA rigger test be cause there simply isn't the opportunity to get enough hours of rigging experience to qualify. I understand the stated purpose of the test is to "certify" people who already have a "high level of knowledge, skills and abilities," so ESTA's not looking to work with beginners. If 81% of employers would encourage their employees to get the certification (the other 19% obviously don't understand the situation!!), there needs to be a way for folks who have demonstrated that level of skill and knowledge to be able to get the certification too. Personally, I'd prefer it if every rigger in the country would have to demonstrate a high level of knowledge BEFORE they hang a single item over my head - not after 30 points worth of experience. On the other hand, I'd hate to think that I could qualify based on the hours I've spent running fly rail and hanging drops for HS shows. I realize this probably isn't the best venue to broach the issue, and I apologize if I've stepped on anyone's toes but I'd like to hear what others might think. Kristi ------------------------------ Message-ID: <437E3B2A.6010801 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:35:54 -0500 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: Crew calling software References: In-Reply-To: Wood Chip-P26398 wrote: > "Press the button", press the button!? Just set your PC scheduler. > You can even program it "Off" for dark nights. I imagine closing night parties would probably be pretty dull. -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <24c.19ddadb.30af9643 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:40:35 EST Subject: Re: Gas Smell... mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com writes: << Personal disclaimer - I HATE scents in attractions (they linger (sometimes 'attaching" themselves to fabrics and upholstery), they mix badly (mix three scents and it usually smells like barf!), they're a pain to maintain, and they tend to be pricey). >> Add to that the fact that artificial fragrances have a high probability of causing an allergic reaction (about 7% of the population IIRC) and can cause anaphylactic shock. I vote "don't do it" unless the scent in question is one from a natural source and universally agreed upon to be mostly harmless - like pumpkin pie, cinnamon, or vanilla. Kristi ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:11:02 -0500 From: "Jeffrey Kanyuck" Subject: Re: Certification info. (long) Kristi, I agree with you. We need ways to train and certify people who are newer to rigging also, also. Jeff Kanyuck >>> MissWisc [at] aol.com 11/18/2005 3:32 PM >>> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com writes: << The concept behind certification is the ability to measure skill levels. We've done that on a national basis with the ETCP test. Venues can do it on a local basis should they so choose. My gut says that the local certifications may fade away in favor of the larger one from ETCP. >> Bill - I dearly wish what you are saying would be true, but until the accessibility of the test is improved, it won't happen. Here's what I mean... In order to take the test the applicant must have 30 experience points. _http://etcp.esta.org/candidateinfo/riggingexams/docs/ETCPCandidateHandbook.pd f_ (http://etcp.esta.org/candidateinfo/riggingexams/docs/ETCPCandidateHandbook.pdf) That's a year and a half of full-time/40 hours a week rigging OR a Bachelors in "tech theatre" with an apprenticeship along with a year of part time rigging, etc. Does running a fly rail count? Does tying a curtain onto a batton count? I'd say no. I do both of those on a regular basis and do not consider myself to be a rigger. To me a rigger is a person who looks at what the structural engineer says the grid can hold, determines static and dynamic loads, figures out where things can hang/how they should be attached, plots it out, then physically hangs points, battons, and other "stuff" overhead. Is there a full-time job like that anywhere in the entertainment world??? Every theatre or arena I've ever worked in has maybe 4 hours on an in and 4 hours of rigging on the out with a week of performances in the middle. That's 8 hours of rigging a week max. and few venues do that week after week. Even places like Radio City where there are shows all the time won't rig 40 hours a week. Perhaps a rock show doing one nighters might get close, but even they rely on the expertise of the riggers who come with the building. My husband is a full-time stagehand, IA journeyman since 1990, has traveled the globe on various tours as well as regularly working in several venues in WI doing arena and theatrical rigging for shows as well as stage carpentry and other departments. We figured that he actually rigs about 10-12 hours a month. At 1 point per 100 hours, It would take a life time for him to even qualify to take the test, yet based on the outline of what's covered, we're confident he could pass it. Our IATSE local has an excellent (yes, I'm biased and bragging) focus on testing. We have both a written and practical exam for our apprentice members and offer seminars on various aspects of stagecraft about once each month for all our members and even offer some to permit workers. We've had Unkle Bill come and do his seminar. We've sent members to chain motor classes. We sent members to see Doom when he was in town last month. We're sending our officers and stewards to a variety of seminars, classes, and workshops. But, unless we're missing something, not a soul in our local could ever take the ESTA rigger test be cause there simply isn't the opportunity to get enough hours of rigging experience to qualify. I understand the stated purpose of the test is to "certify" people who already have a "high level of knowledge, skills and abilities," so ESTA's not looking to work with beginners. If 81% of employers would encourage their employees to get the certification (the other 19% obviously don't understand the situation!!), there needs to be a way for folks who have demonstrated that level of skill and knowledge to be able to get the certification too. Personally, I'd prefer it if every rigger in the country would have to demonstrate a high level of knowledge BEFORE they hang a single item over my head - not after 30 points worth of experience. On the other hand, I'd hate to think that I could qualify based on the hours I've spent running fly rail and hanging drops for HS shows. I realize this probably isn't the best venue to broach the issue, and I apologize if I've stepped on anyone's toes but I'd like to hear what others might think. Kristi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:10:30 -0500 Subject: A laugh for the weekend From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: If the week busted your chops and you need a good laugh, try following this link: http://www.ihos.com/steakhouse.html This comical story is not for the faint of heart. Steve ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien) From: Mark O'Brien Subject: Re: A laugh for the weekend Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:36:17 -0700 That story is disgusting, irreverent, and downright gross... I am still laughing, and have uhh passed it along. Mark-O Mark O'Brien Opera Technical Director University of Arizona, School of Music Tucson, AZ 520/621-7025 520/591-1803 Mobile Santos / McGarry in 2006 On Nov 18, 2005, at 2:10 PM, Steve Larson wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > If the week busted your chops and you need a good > laugh, try following this link: > > > http://www.ihos.com/steakhouse.html > > > This comical story is not for the faint of heart. > > Steve > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:49:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Certification info. (long) From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Kristi. Looks like I have some explaining to do. First off, you should know that over 200 people took the test on Saturday, so at least somebody met the requirements. The ETCP certification was directed at the top 1/3rd of the rigging population. Why? Mostly because it would not be possibly to write a test that was fair and accurately identified the skill level of the people taking the test if those people represented too broad a range of experience. The test would have been meaningless. And by all accounts this test was not. Because I am involved (immersed?0 in this certification I will not spend too much time addressing the "what about the other guy" issues. I think you dealt with that well enough. There are many seminars, classes, apprenticeship programs out there that address the entry & middle level needs. And there will be many more. (check out the ESTA Essential Skills website) About the points requirement. It took a lot of meetings with some very talented people working very hard to come up with that concept. It didn't simply show up on some notes one day. We wanted to make sure that people who should not take the test (ie: those that didn't have a hope of passing it) didn't take it. Rigging is not simply hanging something overhead. That's usually the last item in a long list of tasks that have to be accomplished to insure that what goes up, stays up. (at least till it's supposed to come down) Designing a rig, drawing it, purchasing the right gear and then testing that gear...these are all parts of the rigging experience. Hanging a curtain is rigging. So is hanging the chandelier for Phantom. Different scale, yes. But it's still rigging. Understanding ropes and knots are rigging. As is knowing how to rig (there's that word again) a traveler track. And why wouldn't running a fly rail count? It's rigging boiled down to it's purest essence. Bolting truss together is rigging. You can rest assured there are truss questions on the test. Just because you don't have the word rigger after your name on the call sheet does not mean that you aren't doing rigging. Are there full time riggers in the world? You betcha. What about me and Rocky? What are we..chopped liver? And my staff and his. And all the other companies that have "Rigging" in their name. Do they rig 40 hrs a week at Radio City? I don't know (Probably not now with the strike and all). But I bet if you look at the hours worked during peak season average out over the rest of the year it'll average out pretty high. And, going back to that top 1/3rd concept...we weren't looking at every stagehand in every local around the country (and Canada). We were/are looking at experienced riggers. It's why we called it a rigging certification and not a stagehand certification. Some locals sent one or two guys, some sent ten. Many did not send any. And if, after all is said and done, you don't think you qualify to take the exam, that's OK too. I don't know anyone and this includes the members of the Council, SME's, cert. administrators, and test takers who thinks that 'everyone' will have to be certified. No way. Over time we anticipate (hope) that there will be a certified rigger on staff at most of the professional theatres that have a fly house. Maybe two. The Met would need more than, say, the Long Wharf Theatre. Tours would have one or two certified riggers with them, again it would depend on the size of the show. I tell the story of installing the rigging at the Palladium in NYC. At the time it was the largest nightclub in the city, maybe the world. I had over 25 tons of gear hanging/moving in the air. Not a big deal by today's standards, but in 1985 it was a monster. Installation took 4 months. The rest of the building was being renovated at the same time. Inspectors were always crawling all over the place. You needed a license to install the wiring and the plumbing and the HVAC. You know those little guns they use at the bar to squirt soda into your drink? They needed a license to install those. Did I? Nope. Not once did anyone (except a NY Times reporter) ask me if I knew what I was doing. (I told him, Yes, I did) We desperately need a certification. Look at the shows out there. Go see KA in Vegas. The Rolling Stones. I heard a rumor that Paul McCartney is out with 160,000 pounds of roof load. Count those zeroes. That's huge! How long will it be before a whole lot of people get killed because someone took on a job that he/she thought they could do ....but couldn't. This test will show what a person knows and what they don't. And that's a very good thing. And if all that isn't enough to convince you, think about this. We were most definitely getting to the point where if we didn't produce a certification, the government would. And you don't ever want to go down that road. I think I understand some of your concerns and fears. It was 1981 when I saw my first VariLight and I thought the world as I knew it was over. It wasn't, of course. The world simply changed a bit, and got better. For what it's worth, I firmly,strongly, completely an utterly...beyond any shadow of a doubt...believe that this Certification program will do nothing but good for the industry. I believe that we will look back on it in 5 or 10 years and say, damn. Why'd we wait so long. Do I sound like a proud Papa? You bet your boots I do. I have three kids and on Saturday night when the test were over I felt like I now had a fourth. Like I said before, to not have to hold my breath anymore is a good thing. Kritsti, I hope I've addressed most of your issues and concerns. Please let me know, either here or in private, if you have more. That goes for the rest of you too. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 11/18/05 3:32 PM, "MissWisc [at] aol.com" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com writes: > << The concept behind certification is the ability to measure skill levels. > We've done that on a national basis with the ETCP test. Venues can do it on > a local basis should they so choose. My gut says that the local > certifications may fade away in favor of the larger one from ETCP. >> > > Bill - I dearly wish what you are saying would be true, but until the > accessibility of the test is improved, it won't happen. > > Here's what I mean... In order to take the test the applicant must have 30 > experience points. > _http://etcp.esta.org/candidateinfo/riggingexams/docs/ETCPCandidateHandbook.pd > f_ > (http://etcp.esta.org/candidateinfo/riggingexams/docs/ETCPCandidateHandbook.pd > f) > That's a year and a half of full-time/40 hours a week rigging OR a Bachelors > in "tech theatre" with an apprenticeship along with a year of part time > rigging, etc. Does running a fly rail count? Does tying a curtain onto a > batton > count? I'd say no. I do both of those on a regular basis and do not consider > myself to be a rigger. > > To me a rigger is a person who looks at what the structural engineer says > the grid can hold, determines static and dynamic loads, figures out where > things can hang/how they should be attached, plots it out, then physically > hangs > points, battons, and other "stuff" overhead. Is there a full-time job like > that anywhere in the entertainment world??? Every theatre or arena I've ever > worked in has maybe 4 hours on an in and 4 hours of rigging on the out with a > week of performances in the middle. That's 8 hours of rigging a week max. and > few venues do that week after week. Even places like Radio City where there > are shows all the time won't rig 40 hours a week. Perhaps a rock show doing > one nighters might get close, but even they rely on the expertise of the > riggers who come with the building. > > My husband is a full-time stagehand, IA journeyman since 1990, has traveled > the globe on various tours as well as regularly working in several venues in > WI doing arena and theatrical rigging for shows as well as stage carpentry > and other departments. We figured that he actually rigs about 10-12 hours a > month. At 1 point per 100 hours, It would take a life time for him to even > qualify to take the test, yet based on the outline of what's covered, we're > confident he could pass it. > > Our IATSE local has an excellent (yes, I'm biased and bragging) focus on > testing. We have both a written and practical exam for our apprentice members > and offer seminars on various aspects of stagecraft about once each month for > all our members and even offer some to permit workers. We've had Unkle Bill > come and do his seminar. We've sent members to chain motor classes. We sent > members to see Doom when he was in town last month. We're sending our > officers > and stewards to a variety of seminars, classes, and workshops. But, unless > we're missing something, not a soul in our local could ever take the ESTA > rigger > test be cause there simply isn't the opportunity to get enough hours of > rigging experience to qualify. > > I understand the stated purpose of the test is to "certify" people who > already have a "high level of knowledge, skills and abilities," so ESTA's not > looking to work with beginners. If 81% of employers would encourage their > employees to get the certification (the other 19% obviously don't understand > the > situation!!), there needs to be a way for folks who have demonstrated that > level > of skill and knowledge to be able to get the certification too. > > Personally, I'd prefer it if every rigger in the country would have to > demonstrate a high level of knowledge BEFORE they hang a single item over my > head > - not after 30 points worth of experience. On the other hand, I'd hate to > think that I could qualify based on the hours I've spent running fly rail and > hanging drops for HS shows. > > I realize this probably isn't the best venue to broach the issue, and I > apologize if I've stepped on anyone's toes but I'd like to hear what others > might > think. > > Kristi ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:05:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Crew calling software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005, Jim Hyslop wrote: > I imagine closing night parties would probably be pretty dull. But opening night parties would be fantastic!!! I hear programmers really party hearty... C ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1f0.4775b9a2.30afbcd0 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:25:04 EST Subject: Re: A laugh for the weekend In a message dated 18/11/05 21:15:27 GMT Standard Time, tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com writes: > This comical story is not for the faint of heart. Nor is it at all comical. If this sort of thing has ever hapened to you, as it has to me, you will know just how not-comical it is. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 19:01:34 -0500 Subject: Re: A laugh for the weekend From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: It certainly was funny to him, or so he said. No, it's not fun. We've all had similar moments, perhaps, not all at once. I guess this is colonial humor. Sorry, go back to your tea, or scotch. Steve > From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com > Reply-To: "Stagecraft" > Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:25:04 EST > To: "Stagecraft" > Subject: Re: A laugh for the weekend > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 18/11/05 21:15:27 GMT Standard Time, > tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com writes: > >> This comical story is not for the faint of heart. > > Nor is it at all comical. If this sort of thing has ever hapened to you, as > it has to me, you will know just how not-comical it is. > > Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <437E7283.6050900 [at] fuse.net> Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 19:32:03 -0500 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Re: Sales - It's not just a plaid jacket References: In-Reply-To: Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote: > >>I apologise to all honest salesmen. I have known many, >>including one who >>would go so far as to recommend a competitor's product >>because he thought it was >>better. > And sometimes the competition is your best salesperson... We recently had to pass up a project for a previous customer, we just had no time or room to add their job when they needed it done. They hired another firm to give it a go. From what I hear it was a real bad scene on delivery... They came back to us and resceduled the rest of their renovation to fit our schedule! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 19:30:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Sales - It's not just a plaid jacket From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Geez. I hope it wasn't us. <> I'd never try to fill Stuart's shoes. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 11/18/05 7:32 PM, "Stuart Wheaton" wrote: > And sometimes the competition is your best salesperson... > > We recently had to pass up a project for a previous > customer, we just had no time or room to add their job when > they needed it done. > > They hired another firm to give it a go. > > From what I hear it was a real bad scene on delivery... > > They came back to us and resceduled the rest of their > renovation to fit our schedule! ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Sales - It's not just a plaid jacket Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 19:31:49 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01c5eca0$a5752ed0$6601a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote: > > > > >>I apologise to all honest salesmen. I have known many, No, I didn't, but I concur. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <0E0CDE94AC5F92428C823684D00244E602038E60 [at] exchange10.mercury.ad.ubc.ca> From: "Riter, Andrew (Head Ltg)" Subject: Strand Independant Subs Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:45:56 -0800 Catching up on 4 digests after 2 days off (!!!) Stephen L mentioned Independent Submasters on Strand Boards: I don't know the software for the 300 or 500 series, but the LBX I run every day has the ability to program subs as Normal (pile-on), Inhibitive, and Independent. The Independent Submasters are still under the control of the GRandMaster (and I assume Blackout button, but I can't test it right now without plunging the theatre into darkness (I've actually got a b**r cap taped over it). Anyway, the Independent Submasters on a Strand Board allow the channels in the sub to be protected from being brought below the level recorded in the sub by a change in the channel control, the focus remote, and probably a cue (I'm guessing on that one, I don't write cues very often). That made no sense, did it? OK. My independent subs have the house lights, work lights, aisle and safety lights, and a bunch of open white wash lights recorded at certain levels. My power-on routine is to bring up these subs to have light in the theatre. If the sub has a channel recorded at 50% in it, I can control that channel manually and set it at 75% in Live/Stage/ Designer's Remote. The channel gets brought up to that level. (Highest Takes Precedent). However, I cannot bring the channel level below the level recorded in the sub. If I try to manually bring the level down to 40%, the channel will roll down until it hits the level recorded in the submaster. BUT! It is possible to set a channel at a level underneath the level recorded in the Sub. The channel is at 50% in the sub. Sub is up at full (therefore channel is at 50%) I type [channel] 15 [at] 35% * The channel remains at 50% output (on screen and on stage). I start to fade the submaster down, and the channel rolls with it, UNTIL the channel meets the 35% level, and then it stops, since the channel was commanded to be at that level. I've muffed the House going to 0% at tope of show a few times because the channels had locked in at a level beneath the submaster. The other down side is that I set the wash lights at 60% on the submaster, go some set-up on stage, head upstairs to focus, and can't turn the wash lights off to focus because they are independent. (friendly carpenter is asked to go to board and run the *&%#$$^*& sub down) It's a tough call, whether in my room the use of Independents is useful or warranted. However, it does prevent the room being plunged into darkness by accident (1 thru 50 [at] 0% rather than 10 thru 50 [at] 0%, if the remote doesn't register a key stroke.) How this actually helps the original poster, I haven't a clue. . . Going back to hide. . . Andrew M. Riter Head Lighting Technician Chan Centre, UBC 604-822-2372 *********************** You understand, we are tied down to a language which makes up in obscurity what it lacks in style. Stoppard, R&G are Dead ************************ ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Strand Independent Subs Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 18:54:02 -0800 Message-ID: <555928311F8B2943B65FC7197942C3B70538C0B4 [at] es1.bsdnet.wednet.edu> From: "Storms, Randy" We've adopted this line from the Strand 520i manual as our crew mantra: = "The submaster master is the master of all the other = submasterrrrrrrs....." Randy Storms rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu ______________________________________ >Stephen L mentioned Independent Submasters on Strand Boards: I don't = know the software for the >300 or 500 series, but the LBX I run every = day has the ability to program subs as Normal (pile->on), Inhibitive, = and Independent. >The Independent Submasters are still under the control of the = GRandMaster (and I assume Blackout >button, but I can't test it right = now without plunging the theatre into darkness (I've actually >got a = b**r cap taped over it).=20 ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <3a74b1c8ec6ff0762185fee9a4a6c6f1 [at] dejazzd.com> From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: Certification info. Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 23:29:49 -0500 > a patch (suitable for sewing) and a photo ID card, (suitable for > waving around and lauding it over everyone else in the bar). D*mn. If I had known there was a patch and a photo ID card I would have made sure to make it for the test. ;-) Actually I was really hoping to take it but work got in the way as usual. Any word on any possible dates/locations of the next round of testing? I know Bill you want to rest on your hard earned laurels and without the results of the first test in, it does seem a little ungrateful to ask. I and many others thank you and everyone else that has worked so hard to develop this certification program. Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Certification info. Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 22:39:55 -0700 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Very interesting. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Greg Bierly Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:30 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Certification info. For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- > a patch (suitable for sewing) and a photo ID card, (suitable for > waving around and lauding it over everyone else in the bar). D*mn. If I had known there was a patch and a photo ID card I would have made sure to make it for the test. ;-) Actually I was really hoping to take it but work got in the way as usual. Any word on any possible dates/locations of the next round of testing? I know Bill you want to rest on your hard earned laurels and without the results of the first test in, it does seem a little ungrateful to ask. I and many others thank you and everyone else that has worked so hard to develop this certification program. Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #590 *****************************