Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 25622806; Sun, 20 Nov 2005 03:01:04 -0800 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #591 Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 03:00:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on prxy.net X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.4 X-Spam-Level: X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #591 1. Re: Certification info. by Bill Sapsis 2. Certification info. by "Bill Conner" 3. Re: Gas Smell... by CB 4. Re: Crew calling software by CB 5. Re: Certification info. by "RD" 6. Thanks and a quick recap - was: NYC Vacation - What to see? by "Mt. Angel Performing Arts Center" 7. Re: Thanks and a quick recap - was: NYC Vacation - What to see? by "Secore, Scott" 8. Advertising genius. by "Tony Deeming" 9. Re: Advertising genius. by Dale Farmer 10. Re: Advertising genius. by Scott Parker 11. Re: Advertising genius. by Greg Bierly 12. Re: Advertising genius. by Kevin Lee Allen 13. Re: Certification by June Abernathy 14. Re: Kristi's POV on Rigging Cert. by "Riter, Andrew (Head Ltg)" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 07:07:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Certification info. From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Starting March 15 the test will be available in a computer based form at testing sites around the country. I do not have the list of locations yet but I'm told they will be at H & R Block offices. So you can get your taxes done and get certified all at the same time. Such a deal. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 11/18/05 11:29 PM, "Greg Bierly" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >> a patch (suitable for sewing) and a photo ID card, (suitable for >> waving around and lauding it over everyone else in the bar). > > D*mn. If I had known there was a patch and a photo ID card I would > have made sure to make it for the test. ;-) Actually I was really > hoping to take it but work got in the way as usual. Any word on any > possible dates/locations of the next round of testing? I know Bill you > want to rest on your hard earned laurels and without the results of the > first test in, it does seem a little ungrateful to ask. I and many > others thank you and everyone else that has worked so hard to develop > this certification program. > Greg Bierly > Technical Director > Hempfield HS > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001501c5ed10$e0619b80$7301a8c0 [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: Certification info. Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 07:55:12 -0600 > a patch (suitable for sewing) and a photo ID card, (suitable for > waving around and lauding it over everyone else in the bar). No lapel pin?! I was told there'd be a lapel pin. Bill ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20051119100134.00ce8cf0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:01:34 From: CB Subject: RE: Gas Smell... > I don't have any intention of actually using gasoline > I don't have any intention of actually using gasoline > I don't have any intention of actually using gasoline > I don't have any intention of actually using gasoline Just so we don't get anymore warnings about the health hazards of gasoline in an enclosed space, Heather did say that she wasan't thinking of using gas, but was looking for something that might safely imitate the smell. I don't know of anything, but I'd also join the camp that suggests that if the director and actors are doing their jobs, the rest will fall into place. If you want an automotive smell, gas isn't always the one that triggers it for me. For me its the old upholstery and oil smell. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20051119101337.00ce8cf0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:13:37 From: CB Subject: RE: Crew calling software >"Press the button", press the button!? Just set your PC scheduler. The PC is activated by buttons, n'est ce pas? Pick a button, any button. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Certification info. Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:07:24 -0700 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is there a secret handshake for those of us, two, who started this whole shebang? Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Sapsis Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 5:08 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Certification info. For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Starting March 15 the test will be available in a computer based form at testing sites around the country. I do not have the list of locations yet but I'm told they will be at H & R Block offices. So you can get your taxes done and get certified all at the same time. Such a deal. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 11/18/05 11:29 PM, "Greg Bierly" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >> a patch (suitable for sewing) and a photo ID card, (suitable for >> waving around and lauding it over everyone else in the bar). > > D*mn. If I had known there was a patch and a photo ID card I would > have made sure to make it for the test. ;-) Actually I was really > hoping to take it but work got in the way as usual. Any word on any > possible dates/locations of the next round of testing? I know Bill you > want to rest on your hard earned laurels and without the results of the > first test in, it does seem a little ungrateful to ask. I and many > others thank you and everyone else that has worked so hard to develop > this certification program. > Greg Bierly > Technical Director > Hempfield HS > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:40:24 -0800 From: "Mt. Angel Performing Arts Center" Subject: Thanks and a quick recap - was: NYC Vacation - What to see? In-reply-to: Message-id: <437FB7E8.6090702 [at] mtangelperformingarts.com> References: Thanks to everyone on the list who suggested things to do/see on our NYC vacation... A long list and we did manage to do some of the things... The bacon-cheeseburger at McHales is excellent, but IMHO the mushroom burger is even better! Intrepid was very good. I think the H&H Bagels are over-rated.. Very good, yes - but not worth a 3,000 mile trip if that's all you're going for We did the Guggenheim, Metropolitan and MOMA . . . I guess I'm not that much of an art lover. I lack appreciation for great art. See photo at Not on the list, but excellent - Toy Museum at Forbes Building, Merchant House Museum, Design Museum, MTA Transit Museum Wanted to see the Tenement Museum but missed due to bad timing. We did a flock of antique and thrift shops, as well as the weekend flea markets in Chelsea and Hell's Kitchen. Only show we saw was the '1-Man Star Wars Trilogy' - just too pooped after long days of sightseeing/shopping to do more... Next trip - definitely Thanks again for all the suggestions! Carla ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Thanks and a quick recap - was: NYC Vacation - What to see? Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 19:26:18 -0500 Message-ID: <346414591B50EE4299DB6686321B8CC701D2936E [at] FACSTAFF.facultystaff.eku.edu> From: "Secore, Scott" >>> Carla wrote:=20 I think the H&H Bagels are over-rated.. Very good, yes - but not worth a 3,000 mile trip if that's all you're going for=20 <<< Blashphemy!!! H&H is top notch. Sorry, I'm a biased New Yorker :-) Glad to hear you had a good time.=20 -SS TTS EKU ------------------------------ From: "Tony Deeming" Subject: Advertising genius. Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 01:03:23 -0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Picked this up from another forum and thought it would be interesting to many here, in appreciation of the sheer magnitude PLUS the fact that this was made with NO CGI!! Sony Bravia advert - check the 'behind the scenes' clips, too!! TD http://www.bravia-advert.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <437FD848.6958B56 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:58:33 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Organization: The fuzz in the back of the fridge. Cc: tf [at] techno-fandom.org (TF) Subject: Re: Advertising genius. References: Tony Deeming wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Picked this up from another forum and thought it would be interesting to > many here, in appreciation of the sheer magnitude PLUS the fact that this > was made with NO CGI!! > > Sony Bravia advert - check the 'behind the scenes' clips, too!! > > TD > > http://www.bravia-advert.com A quarter million superballs. Ye gads. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <90d9c9980511191756m69abc5e6h7a338ac8328a24da [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:56:56 -0500 From: Scott Parker Subject: Re: Advertising genius. In-Reply-To: References:

Great fun!! > > http://www.bravia-advert.com > > > -- Take care, Scott ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: Advertising genius. Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:24:31 -0500 I can't let my director see it. She will want to recreate it in a dance number. Very cool. Thanks for sharing! Greg Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:52:14 -0500 From: Kevin Lee Allen Subject: Re: Advertising genius. In-reply-to: Message-id: <69158417-41A0-413C-BCB7-64B971DF79BA [at] klad.com> References:

OK! that was good, let's get another one. Set them up. On Nov 19, 2005, at 8:03 PM, Tony Deeming wrote: > sheer magnitude PLUS the fact that this > was made with NO CGI!! > ----- Kevin Lee Allen Architect of Dreams http://www.klad.com 973.744.6352.voice 201.280.3841.mobile klad [at] klad.com =F0 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20051120050947.87947.qmail [at] web33113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 21:09:47 -0800 (PST) From: June Abernathy Subject: Re: Certification I'm amazed that you managed to get 200 people with that much rigging experience in for the test. Like Kristi, I come from a local where there is a fair amount of rigging, but no one could realistically come up with 30 100hr "points" before retirement doing normal calls. Unless they worked for a rigging company, or unless (and here's the thing I'm assuming) they considered a lot of what Kristi and I would consider ordinary stagehand experience, like tying a drop on a pipe, rigging. Maybe somewhere in the ESTA document that I couldn't find, or somewhere in the test, what actual activities actually qualify as "rigging" is defined. When we discussed it on list a while back, the definition was "I know it when I see it", which may be true, but is a little vague in the world of legal documentation. Tying a drop on a pipe is rigging? Then, is hanging a light on a pipe rigging? If not, why not? Putting together truss is rigging? All truss? What about running a truss spot or hanging a box boom, or suspending speakers off a balcony rail? In my local, guys on a catwalk in the convention center hanging cardboard signs off the railings with monofilament are often classified as riggers, while I can hang lights over a 90 foot drop wearing a fall arrest harness and NOT be considered a rigger, because riggers are carpenters, and I'm an electrician. Could I consider that time rigging when applying for the test, even if my employer does not consider that time rigging? How would it be possible to verify it then? Of course, if you manage to pass your obviously rigorous test, then you are a rigger. But the criteria to get to take the test seems very vague. And while you don't expect every venue to have all "certified" riggers on staff, maybe the suits who run the buildings and their insurance people don't quite understand that only a minute percentage of the industry is certified, or, under the rigorous criteria currently set, COULD be certified. What if they start requiring it, because it exists? Or paying people who don't have it less? I kind of wish you had called this very very elite first certification group "Master Riggers" or some such thing, so that it might be easier to explain to various suits who may show an interest that just because we don't have any "certified" riggers on the call, it doesn't mean that the people we do have are unqualified idiots. PLEASE don't construe this as an attack, on Bill or the committee or even the process. I think Certification is a good thing, and I agree, it's just as well that the industry does it internally before some outside agency who doesn't know much about our business decides to legislate it. I'm just hoping to open a dialogue, and agree with Kristi, Jim, and others that we need to come up with some kind of standardized criteria for what "rigging" is, and work on certifying people with less experience in some manner. Before the various producers and insurance companies start making life exceedingly difficult. June Abernathy IATSE #321 (Tampa, FL) FOH Electrician The Lion King National Tour (Gazelle) __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <0E0CDE94AC5F92428C823684D00244E602038E63 [at] exchange10.mercury.ad.ubc.ca> From: "Riter, Andrew (Head Ltg)" Subject: RE:Kristi's POV on Rigging Cert. Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 21:13:32 -0800 First, I agree that some sort of certification process is needed. But I also do agree with Kristi's point of view. In British Columbia, entertainment electricians are certified by the provincial government (I won't go into the stupid requirements that need to be met for our piece of paper). But we are divided into 2 categories: a Limited Entertainment, and a Full Entertainment certificate. The differences are meaningless to this discussion. My thought is that there are people who DESIGN rigging for a career (Bill, Rock and roll concert designers, etc), and there are those that hang it (either as part of the road crew or the local one day hires). The need for knowledge of rigging practices, physics, theory etc is vastly different between these two groups (yes yes there is cross over of knowledge too). Proper training/certifications of the designers would hopefully prevent the disasters we've seen (Timberlake/Augulara pulling down the Super truss). The ESTA test (as I understand it) definitely covers the first group, and so it should. But what about the second group? To my experience, they put the points where they are needed. If they need to make bridal to make a point where there is no girder, some physic comes into play, but for the majority of people that rig, they will have a hard time meeting the minimum requirements. The rigger on the day of install has to assume that the weight of the load on his/her point will be less than the SWL of all components and building. The day riggers have no idea of the big picture, only that "a point goes here, here and here". They have no idea how much will be hung from each point. Does this test examine the correct method of bridaling(shackle orientation, size of equipment so that shackles can't rotate through an eye and get side loaded)? These are the sort the things the Riggers (as opposed to the Rigging DESIGNERS) need to be aware of, the day the rig goes up. Andrew M. Riter Head Lighting Technician Chan Centre, UBC 604-822-2372 *********************** You understand, we are tied down to a language which makes up in obscurity what it lacks in style. Stoppard, R&G are Dead ************************ ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #591 *****************************