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X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 25657523; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 03:01:18 -0800 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #594 Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 03:00:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on prxy.net X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.8 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, SARE_FRAUD_10 autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.4 X-Spam-Level: X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #594 1. Re: Rigging Certification by Stuart Wheaton 2. Re: Rigging Certification by Bill Sapsis 3. Re: Subject: list-25624104 [at] prxy.net Rigging Certification. by Bill Sapsis 4. Re: Rigging Certification by Bill Sapsis 5. DMX termination by James Feinberg 6. Re: DMX termination by "Tony Deeming" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <438293D3.6050507 [at] fuse.net> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:43:15 -0500 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Re: Rigging Certification References: In-Reply-To: Bill Sapsis wrote: > But, on the plus side, I > now know all the answers. You wanna know what they are? > > A, B, C & D. > > Now if I could just remember what order they go in. ROTFLMAO! But seriously, seems most of the kerfuffle here has to do with "am I qualified to try the test?" From this thread and the last I want to try to paraphrase the criteria as I understand them. You can take the test after you have the following: Enough education to do the trig, algebra, physics and structural calculations needed. An apprenticeship, internship, experience or education sufficient to assure you know how to do the stuff they aren't gonna test, like how to put a shackle together and how to safely install the other hardware. Sufficient real world experience that you have probably seen things that pass a good ways beyond the plain vanilla variety of rigging. A real desire to be in the top 1/3 of all riggers, which seems to include being willing and able to prove that you are good enough to take the test. Is that a fair paraphrase? The curious thing here is that if it were not for the hours requirement, my girlfriend might have a better shot at certification than I do, She's a university Prof. in Physics, and the test problems would be easy for her, but nobody in their right mind wants her hanging 20 tonnes over their head. That 'Hours of experience' requirement is a good idea in my mind. But, supposing I go to take the test, I'm curious as to whether the person who evaluates my experience knows what it is we do for a living? Maybe I use a word on my resume they don't have on their list? Is there an appeals process? If I challenge their decision that I'm not qualified to take the test will they fax my resume to Bill or Peter and ask for a ruling? (No pun intended Karl) Based on the fact that the pool for this certification is mostly self-identifying, is there any incentive for the testing center to disqualify an applicant who feels they are ready and has some paperwork to back that up? I trust that the test is sufficiently rigorous so I really don't care if somebody sneaks in on too few hours of real world rigging, I assume the test will trip them up. Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:41:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Rigging Certification From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Bill. Please go to It's a start. And, as far as I know, my next job at ESTA. If there's one thing I've learned over the past elebenty seven years, it's that taking small steps offers a much higher chance of success than do leaps. 'sides, you have to rest after the leaps. Not so when taking small steps. You get to just keep going. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 11/21/05 10:33 PM, "Bill Nelson" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > OK, you now have a much needed Master Rigger certification - e.g. a person > who is competent to design as well as install just about any rigging > system. I think you need to call the certification "Master Rigger", as > that is what they are - the best in the trade. > > Now it may be necessary to work on certification for a "Rigger". This > person does not design rigging and most likely never installs hard points. > The extent of their work involves flying items on existing > tracks/pipes/trusses. The knowledge and experience needed here is far > below the Master level. The person needs to know how to fasten items > properly and to calculate load distributions to make sure they don't > exceed the design specifications. The person should also be able to > maintain the equipment - as well as recognize when it is starting to > deteriorate. > > Of course, we then have the problem of all the theatres that have never > had any load specifications written. Or, if they have been, they have been > lost over the years. > > Bill > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:52:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Subject: list-25624104 [at] prxy.net Rigging Certification. From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Welcome, Rob, to the land of the posters. Not bad for a first attempt. Not bad at all. Please feel free to rant whenever you feel the need. The rest of us do. Thanks Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 11/21/05 9:43 PM, "Idaho Scenic" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > My apologies if this doesn't get posted right. This is my first post. > > In reference to Rigging Certification. > > What qualifies me as a rigger? KNOWLEDGE. Pure plain and simple. When I > walk into a familiar venue and hang points for a sound system for a > touring show, I know how those points will hang. How? Safely. If one > point needs to hang two feet out into the middle of no-where, there are > several things I have to consider: Angles, weight, stresses, trim height, > the building, what else is going right next to it, or fifteen feet away on > the same truss, (beam, batten...) It being a familiar building helps a > whole bunch. A lot of the homework has been done before. > > KNOWLEDGE of what I DON'T know is just as important. I have been brought > into new construction in the planning stages as a consultant, and been hired > by sound companies to hang permanent cabinets because someone there was > smart enough to figure out that he didn't have enough knowledge to hang > those cabinets safely. I then have homework to do long before any materials > start showing up on the floor. > > The "training program" for riggers at the building, I work most often, > differentiates between "Riggers" and "Climbers." Climbers know how to bolt > the hardware together. They don't know the specifics: the why's and how's of > that particular point. From that first point they hang, under supervision, > it is my hope that they will begin their thirst for knowledge of their job. > When is a Climber considered a Rigger in my book? When that person can be > satisfied, when he walks away, that it will be safe, and be able to explain > how and why to anyone who asks. > > I do not subscribe to "that's the way it has always been done". It may be > right, it may not. It may have been done that way by a guy who "just made it > work" back in the 'fifties. > > Would I pass that certification test? I don't know. I don't consciously > know all that I know, which is what a Test / Certification does. Fourteen > years ago I attended a week long seminar for rigging. I got a certificate > of completion for that, It didn't "make" me a rigger then. Since then I > have several hundred / thousand hours in the air, on the ground, at the pin > rail, in the loft, and at the drafting table and calculator. I am still > learning. > > Would I trust someone who has passed that certification test? Certainly. > Unquestionably? Nope. Would I respect his / her knowledge, absolutely, > because hopefully with that knowledge comes the knowing that it is just a > level of competency he / she has obtained. (If I doubt my doctor I get a > second opinion.) > > For over twenty years about the country, I have seen many people who call > themselves riggers, who are competent, riggers, climbers, and not. Would > a National program, i.e. certification, lend more professionalism and > SAFETY to our profession. Absolutely. Am I for it, Absolutely. Would I be > more comfortable walking into a venue and seeing "the" embroidered patch on > the lead riggers jacket / backpack. duh! > > Hope to see you with my 1040 in hand. > > Was this a rant? I just felt the need. Thanks, sigh... > > Rob Riddle > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 00:02:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Rigging Certification From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: On 11/21/05 10:43 PM, "Stuart Wheaton" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Bill Sapsis wrote: > > >> But, on the plus side, I >> now know all the answers. You wanna know what they are? >> SNIP > > > The curious thing here is that if it were not for the hours > requirement, my girlfriend might have a better shot at > certification than I do, She's a university Prof. in > Physics, and the test problems would be easy for her, but > nobody in their right mind wants her hanging 20 tonnes over > their head. > > That 'Hours of experience' requirement is a good idea in my > mind. Gee. We thought so too. That's why we put it in there. > > But, supposing I go to take the test, I'm curious as to > whether the person who evaluates my experience knows what it > is we do for a living? Maybe I use a word on my resume they > don't have on their list? Is there an appeals process? If > I challenge their decision that I'm not qualified to take > the test will they fax my resume to Bill or Peter and ask > for a ruling? (No pun intended Karl) Page 26 of the ever popular, but still unread, it seems, Candidate Handbook. > > Based on the fact that the pool for this certification is > mostly self-identifying, is there any incentive for the > testing center to disqualify an applicant who feels they are > ready and has some paperwork to back that up? I trust that > the test is sufficiently rigorous so I really don't care if > somebody sneaks in on too few hours of real world rigging, I > assume the test will trip them up. > > Stuart (OK. Fortunately I did not send the first 2 attempts to answer this section. ) . The incentive, actually, is to qualify people. Stop and think about it for a minute...yes, a whole minute....OK. Now dig this. Any idea how much this certification has cost so far? A lot. And by a lot I mean a large 'a lot'. Care to venture a guess? Anyway, what happens when people apply to take the test? They send in money, yes? And what do we do with that money? Do we go to the Bahamas for a much needed vacation? No. We should, but we don't. We take that money and pay our bills with it. We're funny that way. So the more people taking the test, the more opportunities we have to pay our bills. And is the test rigorous enough? I certainly hope so. It was awfully hard to write. But the proof will be in the scoring, and that we don't have yet. (NO! Do NOT ask me when the test results will be published. If you didn't take the test it doesn't matter and if you did take the test, they told you at the session when the results would be available.) Oh an by the way. Just a small note of very deep appreciation to the 200 or so people that did take the test. It took guts to be the first. It took a lot of courage to walk into that room and let yourself be seen by your peers. You could have waited to do the computer test in anonymity, but you didn't. I was humbled by your unselfishness and extremely grateful you were willing to take the chance with us. Thank You. Oh and another by the way (I'm on a roll). The questions being asked here on this list? None of the people who actually took the test have asked me questions. What they did ask me was to thank everyone who worked on the test for their efforts and their commitment to seeing this project through. Oh and the last (I think) by the way. If you want to know who really worked hard on the test, look up their names on the ETCP website. The SME's. The Working Group Chairs. The Council Members. These are the real heroes in this endeavor. These are the people who worked their butts off to make sure we did it right. Listen. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think the tests do exactly what they are supposed to do. They identify and quantify. They are difficult but fair. They are accurate. (If they weren't then the 200 folks taking the test would have burned me at the stake in Orlando) But most importantly of all, they are the best that could be done by the best in the business. And if that's not good enough, soup du jour. So gang, I'm done. I'm out of energy and I'm out of time to keep answering these questions. As Peter mentioned, the ETCP folks can answer your remaining questions. And then there's that Handbook.... Me? Right after Thanksgiving I'm going to check in with ESTA and get my next assignment. (now let me see. Do I delete this or do I send it? Delete or send? Which shall it be?) Be well Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. ------------------------------ Message-Id: From: James Feinberg Subject: DMX termination Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:38:01 -0800 I am attempting to build a DMX terminator. My research has lead me to believe I need a 1W 120 ohm resistor. I have at my disposal a 1W 150 ohm resistor and an 0.25W 120 ohm resistor. So now I ask those far wiser than I, which resistor should I use? thanks, --James Feinberg University of San Diego ------------------------------ From: "Tony Deeming" Subject: RE: DMX termination Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:13:35 -0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Actually I have the resistor down as a 0.5W 120 ohm, but as you don't have one of those either.... I wouldn't use a 150R resistor, as the point of the termination is to properly set the impedance. Looks like you're going to have to call Radio Shack or some other electronics supplier. TD > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of James > > Feinberg > > Sent: 22 November 2005 06:38 > > To: Stagecraft > > Subject: DMX termination > > > > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > I am attempting to build a DMX terminator. My research has lead me to > > believe I need a 1W 120 ohm resistor. I have at my disposal a 1W 150 > > ohm resistor and an 0.25W 120 ohm resistor. So now I ask those far > > wiser than I, which resistor should I use? > > > > thanks, > > --James Feinberg > > University of San Diego > > > > ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #594 *****************************