Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 25975591; Mon, 12 Dec 2005 03:02:01 -0800 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #616 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 03:01:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.5 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, SARE_MILLIONSOF,TW_HX autolearn=ham version=3.0.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on prxy.net X-Spam-Level: X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #616 1. Re: ethernet cable by Charlie Richmond 2. Re: Flying a kite by "Paul Guncheon" 3. Re: Ethernet 101 by Charlie Richmond 4. Re: Ethernet 101 by Simon Newton 5. Re: Flying a Kite by Michael L. Cristaldi 6. overhauling arbors by b Ricie 7. Re: ethernet cable by "Bill Conner" 8. Corroded sockets... by "Steve Jones" 9. Re: ethernet cable by "Bill Conner" 10. Re: Corroded sockets... by Dale Farmer 11. Re: Flying a Kite by "Stephen E. Rees" 12. Re: Corroded sockets... by "Stephen E. Rees" 13. Re: Flying a Kite by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 14. Re: Corroded sockets... by MissWisc [at] aol.com 15. Re: ethernet cable by Jim Hyslop 16. Re: Corroded sockets... by "Jon Ares" 17. Re: Ethernet 101 by Jim Hyslop 18. Re: Ethernet 101 by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 19. Re: ethernet cable by Mitch Hefter 20. Re: ethernet cable by Mitch Hefter 21. Re: overhauling arbors by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 22. Re: Corroded sockets... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 23. Re: overhauling arbors by Dale Farmer 24. Re: Corroded sockets... by "Donald A Rowe" 25. Re: ethernet cable by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 26. Re: Corroded sockets... by "John Gibilisco" 27. Re: ethernet cable by Charlie Richmond 28. Re: ethernet cable by Charlie Richmond 29. Re: overhauling arbors by Jim Hyslop 30. Re[2]: overhauling arbors by "Frank E. Merrill" 31. Re: Corroded sockets... by Patrick McCreary 32. Figuring mechanical advantage by Michael Heinicke 33. Re: Ethernet 101 by Mick Alderson 34. Re: ethernet cable by Greg Bierly 35. Re: ethernet cable by Charlie Richmond 36. Re: Figuring mechanical advantage by "Jim at TheatreWireless.com" 37. Re: Figuring mechanical advantage by Patrick McCreary 38. Re: Ethernet 101 by Simon Newton 39. Re: Ethernet 101 by Jim Hyslop 40. Re: Ethernet 101 by Jim Hyslop 41. Re: Corroded sockets... by James Feinberg 42. Re: ethernet cable by "Bill Nelson" 43. Re: Ethernet 101 by "Bill Nelson" 44. Re: Figuring mechanical advantage by "Bill Nelson" 45. Re: Figuring mechanical advantage by "Bill Nelson" 46. Re: Corroded sockets... by "Bill Nelson" 47. Re: Ethernet 101 by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 48. Strong Spotlights by "pam" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:29:13 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: ethernet cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005, Greg Bierly wrote: > I know to be fair it really wasn't an ethernet system failure but the crew > was really wishing for a hard line DMX input anywhere in the system to just > get the show up and running. Sheesh. This is a really bogus example of why ethernet MIGHT not be better! There are all sorts of ways that shutting power off to any type of critical system component can stop the show - including DMX splitters, which are equivalent to ethernet switches but far more expensive.... And if your crew wants some backup 'direct' DMX lines there's surely a way to do it... Just like you can have a backup ethernet network... Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 01:29:49 -1000 From: "Paul Guncheon" Subject: Re: Flying a kite Message-id: <000501c5fe46$332ab590$1e8aea48 [at] yourxhtr8hvc4p> References: <> Great knot site: http://www.netknots.com/ Laters, Paul "I've just written the first two words of my "Ode to a Bic" announced Tom, openly. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:45:32 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Ethernet 101 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005, Dale Farmer wrote: A very excellent summary of ethernet with only a few nits to pick: > to deal with. It uses only two of the pairs in the four pair cable. Gigabit ethernet uses all four pairs. > say during that big finale. Adding in a active device I suspect this should be finished thusly: Adding in an active device such as a switch at any point within the 100m limit will easily extend the distance essentially as far as you need to go unless fibre is available. And to tie this in to a previous thread, adding active ethernet devices does not add any perceptible latency to a system, since most switches pass the data within microseconds. > Pulling the cable hard, bending it tightly around corners, untwisting > the pairs in the connector will cause loss of signal, and increase > noise in the cable. Leading to data loss. a bad thing. Patch cables > are cheap, toss them when they get damaged. This is generally true only for gigabit ethernet but good advice nevertheless. > Wireless works for laptops. Not aware of any theatrical > devices that use it. Interesting discussion has resulted from this statement. Since so many theatrical functions are now done with software running on laptops, to say that a notebook computer running 'theatrical' (or sound or show control or lighting) software is not a theatrical device is silly in my opinion ;-) Many sound designers use their computers with a wireless link in order to tech shows from different locations in the house. > other information from the DHCP server. For show control, > you may prefer not to use DHCP. Most show control apps do not require hard coded IP addresses. > This is lightly skimming over lots of stuff, so don't count > this as anything near definitive. But it is extremely well done! Thanks, Dale ;-) Charlie ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Ethernet 101 From: Simon Newton In-Reply-To: References:

Subject: Re: Corroded sockets... Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:27:28 -0800 > A trick my mother taught me was to use a half potato to turn the broken > lamp and base in the socket. How?? - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <439C7823.5080002 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:04:03 -0500 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: Ethernet 101 References:

In-Reply-To: Simon Newton wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > On Sat, 2005-12-10 at 17:35 -0500, Dale Farmer wrote: > >>For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >>--------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >>Mick Alderson wrote: > > >

In-Reply-To: Dale Farmer wrote: > Fill the buckets with a heavish oil. used motor oil comes to mind. > You would have to take suitable fire precautions, of course. Sounds pretty messy to me. I was thinking you could wrap the chains in a sleeve of heavy fabric, maybe something cut from some old main curtains that might be lying around. -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:57:50 -0500 From: "Frank E. Merrill" Reply-To: "Frank E. Merrill" Message-ID: <14910003099.20051211175750 [at] tcon.net> Subject: Re[2]: overhauling arbors In-Reply-To: References:

Howdy ! Sunday, December 11, 2005, Jim Hyslop wrote: > I was thinking you could wrap the chains in a sleeve of heavy > fabric, maybe something cut from some old main curtains The problem with recycling old stage curtains is that the flameproofing remains in most fabrics and, if used to enclose metals, will rust or otherwise corrode those metals. If the old curtains are flameproofed cotton, they may be taken apart and the pieces may be laundered to remove the flameproofing so you can enclose metals, but then you'd have to apply flameproofing chemicals to them to avoid the glare of the fire guys... Best regards, Frank E. Merrill MERRILL STAGE EQUIPMENT Indianapolis Established 1946 www.merrillstage.com Running THE BAT! Natural e-mail system v.3.60 mailto:Lamplighter [at] tcon.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:20:39 -0500 From: Patrick McCreary Subject: Re: Corroded sockets... In-reply-to: Message-id: <5.2.1.1.1.20051211181118.01ed3038 [at] incoming.verizon.net> References: At 10:11 AM 12/11/2005 -0600, you wrote: >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >1) Is there anything I can use that will make removing these bulbs easier? Sears auto stores used to sell a battery terminal spreader, rather like pliers in reverse, that I've been using for years on empty sockets; even works for medium pre-focus. >Ideally, some type of spray that could be directed into the socket around >the edge of the base (with the power to the marquee cut off, of course) that >would help loosen them, without leaving nasty residue that will be harder to >clean out of the socket ? You could try penetrating oil, but it may not work well on brass. >2) Is there anything we can use to clean the sockets out with once the bulb >is removed? Back to sears - terminal clamp brush - tapered wire brush with a small handle. >3) Is there anything we can apply to the socket or bulb base that will help >prevent corrosion? Go to a real electrical supplier, (Graybar or some other of that ilk) and tell them what you need - there are products specifically design for the purpose - No Al Ox, or something like that, IIRC. Good luck. Patrick G. Patrick McCreary Ass't. Professor - Technical Director Department of Theater and Dance Indiana University of Pennsylvania Indiana, PA 15701 (Office) 724-357-2644 (Home) 724-349-4309 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20051211235220.76482.qmail [at] web81502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 15:52:20 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Heinicke Subject: Figuring mechanical advantage I think I am suffering from a temproary brain block, so I am turning to the list for suggestions: I am playing around with some block and tackle designs other than what is in the Backstage Handbook and I'm having some problems figuring out the forces and the associated mechanical advantage or disadvantage. Can anyone recommend a good explanation of mechanical advantage/disadvantage in block and tackle systems? So far my searches of the net and my references haven't been very helpful. Thanks, Mike H ------------------------------ Message-ID: <439CBBB2.4070804 [at] uwosh.edu> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:52:18 -0600 From: Mick Alderson Subject: RE: Ethernet 101 My thanks to Dale Farmer and all who responded. I will follow up on the suggested references. Dale wrote: > The packets > have to be addressed. The address is in the form of > 123.123.123.123 ... The other > common error is the subnet address. A common one is > 255.255.255.0 ... The subnet address becomes important if > you have a larger network with routers. I am ignoring IPv6. So the first address is the address for a given router, and the subnet address is for individual devices on that router? (That almost makes sense, as though one might specify a particular DMX universe by number, then the device number on it, rather than the sequential numbering system DMX usually uses.) I've heard about IPv6, and its theoretical ability to give an address to every atom in the Universe. Is it expected that this will do away with subnet addresses? -- Mick Alderson TD, Fredric March Theatre University of Wis. Oshkosh ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <6773c9b034484e1a7dcac869fdb6fcf5 [at] dejazzd.com> From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: ethernet cable Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 19:16:46 -0500 > It took a week to figure out something was not turned on? Was this > not covered in the training? If a new building, why didn't you call > the manufacturer's 800 number and ask for help right away - I'm sure > the factory project manager could get you to this problem quickly. To clarify. I was not house crew even though I attended the ETC training but the guy in charge at the time was sound guy that had an attitude and didn't even want me there. The system worked fine the performance the night before (and the week before for turn-on) but the rigging contractors were still working third shift for two months after the building opened and pretty POed since they were working at another venue first and second shift. We are still not sure if they accidentally or intentionally turned off the power to the rack (it did have a UPS that did finally ran out of juice). They were the only ones still working above the auditorium. Again I was not present that morning and only heard about it later. I don't know the sequence of events and who was called when. They had been having all kinds of problems at turn on due to NET-1/NET-2 issues so they thought that was the issue for reasons too in depth to bore you with here. I do agree with the fact a DMX isolator or splitter could have been in place of the ethernet hub but a dmx checker could have solved that easily. Yes I know Ethernet test equipment is available but at a premium cost and huge learning curve. Remember I am playing devil's advocate and am a strong advocate for ethernet DMX distribution. I see it does have huge advantages but it brings with it a whole other level of expertise needed. Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:27:36 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: ethernet cable In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

In-Reply-To: Simon Newton wrote: > Yes, the subnet mask tells you which part of the address is the network > portion and which part belongs to the host. The subnet mask is bitwise > and'ed with the address to produce the network address. So an address of > 123.123.123.123 with an netmask of 255.255.255.0 means the 123rd device > on the 123.123.123.0 network. Not quite. Yes, it's on the 123.123.123.0 network, but the last '123' is simply a unique identifier. It doesn't mean there are 123 devices on that network. -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <4ac0d0d99cbb3159cc01bd21023d3c1d [at] sandiego.edu> From: James Feinberg Subject: Re: Corroded sockets... Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:09:22 -0800 From the current issue of Family Handyman magazine, on removing bases once the bulb is broken and a lubricant to use for the new lamps: "When a light bulb is stuck in its socket, the culprit is usually corrosion between the socket and the bulb's metal base... "Often, you can unscrew the base by inserting a pliers and holding the jaws open as you turn. A potato might work too: Round the end of the potato with a knife, jam it into the socket and turn. But if you bulb is really stubborn, use hot glue and a 1/2" x 1/2" stick of wood. (Photo 1: Apply a heavy blob of hot glue to a stick and press it into the broken bulb's base. If the glue doesn't fill the base, inject glue into any voids. Let the glue cool for five minutes and turn the stick to screw out the base.) If you don't have a scrap of wood, buy a 5.8" dowel... "Save yourself all of this hassle in the future by applying a special lubricant such as Bulb EZ to the new bulb ($4, www.bulbez.com, 530-478-0707). (Photo 2: Coat the threads of the new bulb with a special lubricant designed for light bulbs. The coating inhibits corrosion and makes future removal much easier.) Good luck! --James Feinberg University of San Diego On Dec 11, 2005, at 8:11 AM, Steve Jones wrote: > > 3) Is there anything we can apply to the socket or bulb base that will > help > prevent corrosion? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1054.208.51.52.121.1134372562.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: <003601c5fe6d$7a75fb90$6901a8c0 [at] BCA1> References: <1130.208.51.52.90.1134267883.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> <003601c5fe6d$7a75fb90$6901a8c0 [at] BCA1> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 23:29:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: ethernet cable From: "Bill Nelson" > What you describe is the basic star plan of one node on the end of each > home-run and is what I've been laying out for buildings for 5 years or so. > For economical use of Ethernet with moving lights I believe a daisy chain > or topology free arrangement be desirable. My understanding is there is a > slight delay each time the data passes through a hub or switch and that if > each moving light in effect had a switch in it, the cumulative delay might > be an issue. I don't know if it is a daisy chain or a homerun configuration. The as built documents are not yet available and I was not there when the installation occurred. One major disadvantage of a daisy chained Ethernet configuration is that you need more repeaters - as line length is very limited. As you note, every time a packet has to pass through a device, it introduces a delay. Another disadvantage is that, Ethernet normally operates with collision detection. With a daisy chain, collisions are more likely to be a problem. There are ways to eliminate the data collision problem, but it slows down the control signals somewhat. Basically, the devices or prohibited from transmitting back to the controller until polled by the controller. The controller then listens for the response. After it gets the response, it can start sending control signals again. > So, are you affirming that there is no delay what-so-ever when data passes > through any switch device? No, I would never say that. There are delays due to simple line length. Ethernet switches are not required in the instruments themselves. One node providing one DMX output can drive quite a few instruments. Since the DMX input/output of an instrument are usually common connections, there is no significant device delay in passing the packet to the next device on the DMX line. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1080.208.51.52.121.1134373747.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 23:49:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Ethernet 101 From: "Bill Nelson" >> One local highschool just built a new theatre and they are using an >> Expression console over EDMX (Ethernet DMX). One accessory available is >> a >> wireless remote - really nice for focussing lights or doing light >> checks. > > Are you sure that it isn't IR? We had one with our old Impuls control. It > works fine, but, being line-of-sight, is much impeded by the forest of > structural > steel among which our lighting bridges live. And it is strictly wireless! I don't know if both are available for the Expression - I assume it is. I was told that an RF RFU is available. It doesn't really matter, that is just the transport method. You use whatever works for your facility. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1110.208.51.52.121.1134375261.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:14:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Figuring mechanical advantage From: "Bill Nelson" > I think I am suffering from a temproary brain block, > so I am turning to the list for suggestions: > I am playing around with some block and tackle designs > other than what is in the Backstage Handbook and I'm > having some problems figuring out the forces and the > associated mechanical advantage or disadvantage. Can > anyone recommend a good explanation of mechanical > advantage/disadvantage in block and tackle systems? So > far my searches of the net and my references haven't > been very helpful. Count the number of load support lines. That is the theoretical mechanical advantage. Note that the operating line can be one of the support lines. The actual mechanical advantage is never equal to the theoretical value due to friction. You can also get the theoretical value by measurement. Pull the operating line a distance X. Measure the distance Y that the load moved. The mechanical advantage is X/Y. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1121.208.51.52.121.1134375976.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:26:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Figuring mechanical advantage From: "Bill Nelson" > Count the lines between the blocks - don't count the one you're pulling on > - there's your mechanical advantage. The displacement advantage is the > inverse. A seven-line rig has a mechanical advantage of 7; 5 pounds of > pull means 35 pounds of lift (disregarding friction, of course); - and a > 1/7 displacement advantage; - 35 feet of pull means 5 feet of lift. > There are good and bad ways to reeve the lines, though - the Crosby web > site has instructions, IIRC. Almost true. If the line you pull is directly from above, then it is one of the supporting lines. So a line connected by one end to the grid, then traveling down through a single block and back up to the grid - where you pull on it - has a 2:1 mechanical advantage. Keep in mind that supporting lines are not necessarily vertical. If not, then the mechanical advantage is not equal to the number of supporting lines. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1134.208.51.52.121.1134377117.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:45:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Corroded sockets... From: "Bill Nelson" > "Often, you can unscrew the base by inserting a pliers and holding the > jaws open as you turn. A potato might work too: Round the end of the > potato with a knife, jam it into the socket and turn. I have sometimes removed a lamp base by just gripping the rim and rotating the rim. I never had any luck by inserting pliers and holding the jaws open. Then just tends to distort the base and make it even harder to remove. Potatoes are messy and difficult to pack around when you are working. Just purchase a hard rubber pencil eraser of the right size. Pressing it into the base and turning it has worked very well for me. And the flat eraser fits easily into a pocket or tool pouch. Bill ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Ethernet 101 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 03:47:39 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c5fef8$b5a919f0$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > > Are you sure that it isn't IR? We had one with our old=20 > Impuls control.=20 > > It works fine, but, being line-of-sight, is much impeded by=20 > the forest=20 > > of structural steel among which our lighting bridges live.=20 > And it is=20 > > strictly wireless! >=20 > I don't know if both are available for the Expression - I=20 > assume it is. I was told that an RF RFU is available. It=20 > doesn't really matter, that is just the transport method. You=20 > use whatever works for your facility. From ETC's web site: "The Radio Remote Focus Unit (RRFU) provides a simple, wireless solution = for remote control. Compatible with the ETC Express, Expression and Insight consoles and LPCs, Arri Imagine 3 and Focus consoles and the Emphasis Control System, this small hand-held transmitter unit provides access to frequently used commands for dimmer and channel checks as well as macro = and record functions. The small receiver unit plugs directly into and is = powered by the RFU port on the console or nodes." ------------------------------ From: "pam" Subject: Strong Spotlights Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 02:59:24 -0700 Organization: Phxzone Productions Message-ID: <000201c5ff02$bbbd25c0$6401a8c0 [at] PAMBOT> Does anyone know right off hand if Strong has changed the orientation of the iris on their spotlights? Normally the iris closes to head shot towards the operator and opens to a full body away... has something changed recently? Pam Boyd Phoenix, AZ... L.336 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005 ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #616 *****************************