Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 27169531; Tue, 31 Jan 2006 03:02:06 -0800 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #674 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 03:01:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on prxy.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.7 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.4 X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #674 1. Re: tech riders by "Bill Nelson" 2. Re: tech riders by "C. Dopher" 3. Re: Tech Riders [CamLok Gender] by "Marc Palmer" 4. odd / mistaken equipment titles by "Stephen E. Rees" 5. Re: Tail Downs by Paul Marsland 6. Re: Tail Downs by Paul Marsland 7. odd/ mistaken equiptment titles by b Ricie 8. Re: Job titles by Stephen Litterst 9. Re: tech riders by Stephen Litterst 10. Re: Looking for solutions to use show control to run sound cues off an Obsession by Stephen Litterst 11. Re: Job titles by "Paul Schreiner" 12. Re: Job titles by Bill Sapsis 13. Re: Looking for a carpenter with a shop by Michael Powers 14. Re: Tail Downs by Michael Heinicke 15. Re: Tail Downs by Stephen Litterst 16. Re: odd / mistaken equipment titles (or what will they think by Norman Lazarus 17. Re: tech riders by Dale Farmer 18. Re: Tail Downs (Equipment ratings) by "Peter Scheu" 19. Re: Tail Downs by "richard j. archer" 20. Re: tech riders by Joe Golden 21. Re: odd / mistaken equipment titles by "Jon Ares" 22. Re: 1000kw par vs 575 ETC par by "JUSTIN DAVID BENNETT" 23. Re: Tail Downs by Bill Sapsis 24. Re: Job titles by "JUSTIN DAVID BENNETT" 25. Re: side lighting by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 26. Re: side lighting by "Tony Deeming" 27. Re: Looking for a carpenter with a shop by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 28. Re: tail downs by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 29. plastic drilling by Jerry Durand 30. Resume by "Maurice Moe Conn" 31. Re: Resume by "Paul Schreiner" 32. Re: tech riders by June Abernathy 33. Re: tech riders by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 34. Re: tech riders by Stephen Litterst 35. Re: tech riders by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 36. Re: tech riders by Brian James 37. Speaking of Resumes by Patrick Immel 38. Re: Job titles by Richard Bakos 39. Re: Job titles by "Laura McMeley" 40. NY Times copyright article by "Michael Finney" 41. Re: Speaking of Resumes by Delbert Hall 42. Re: NY Times copyright article by IAEG [at] aol.com 43. Re: Speaking of Resumes by Patrick Immel 44. Re: NY Times copyright article by Scott Parker 45. Re: Speaking of Resumes by Bill Sapsis 46. Re: Job titles by MissWisc [at] aol.com 47. Re: Looking for solutions to use show control to run sound cues off an Obsession by Miles Dudgeon 48. Churches (was RE: Job titles) by "C. Andrew Dunning" 49. Re: Churches (was RE: Job titles) by "chip.a.wood" 50. Re: Speaking of Resumes by Delbert Hall *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <2474.208.51.52.8.1138625934.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 04:58:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: tech riders From: "Bill Nelson" > It seems it is an east coast west coast thing, east coast want the g and n > reversed, west coast straight forward male to source. Just like your > anything you plug in male to source including your house. Computers are > different world. That still does not explain WHY a person would want the connectors reversed. If you need the benders, that means 4 more connections to be made - it what are sometimes pernickity connectors. Bill ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <9A08D545-71F1-417F-911A-523F9A9B5724 [at] dopher.com> From: "C. Dopher" Subject: Re: tech riders Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:04:14 -0500 On Jan 30, 2006, at 6:00 AM, Stagecraft wrote: > Subject: Re: tech riders > Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 23:27:55 -0800 > > It seems it is an east coast west coast thing, east coast want the > g and n > reversed, west coast straight forward male to source. Just like your > anything you plug in male to source including your house. Computers > are > different world. I'll admit to being a little confused here. Are you saying that some house pigtails have all five as femaile camlock, as opposed to 3F, 2M? Don't (all/most) manufacturers of dimmer racks and such provide G&N reversed as standard? Or am I not reading something right here? Cris Dopher ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Tech Riders [CamLok Gender] Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:26:07 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Marc Palmer" The intent is to slow down people who are working in the dark, colorblind, uneducated or distracted from crossing a hot leg with ground or neutral.=20 Driving people crazy by forcing them to carry the right sets of Cam tees, turnarounds, etc. is an unintended side benefit. Marc >From: "Occy" >It seems it is an east coast west coast thing, east coast want the g and n=20 >reversed, west coast straight forward male to source... >>----- Original Message -----=20 >>From: "Bill Nelson" >> >> OK. What is the rational for reversing G&N? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <43DE158A.5000002 [at] fredonia.edu> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:32:58 -0500 From: "Stephen E. Rees" Reply-To: Rees [at] fredonia.edu Subject: odd / mistaken equipment titles References:

Jim Henson Studios used to have multiple drawers filled with sparkly things known there as "Jools" On a set of drawings for an opera, the designer succeeded in making every note referring to that outdoor space with flowers and bushes as the "Graden". My wife and I work in the graden now whenever we get a chance. Steve ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060130142802.71847.qmail [at] web52210.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 06:28:02 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Marsland Subject: Re: Tail Downs In-Reply-To: Tony and Steve, Thanks for pointing this out for me -- I will get our local ballet company to drop the couple of bills on rated couplers. For the inquiring minds -- I should be able to get pix of both STOMP's and the ballets tail down rigs in the next couple of weeks. I'll let you know. Paul > > You forgot a couple of steps: > > - fly lineset down 'til taildowns are just > touching the deck (i.e. > > can't lift counterweight arbor any higher) > > - replace swivel cheeseboroughs with fixed > cheeseboroughs > > > > Bill or Peter may correct me, but I don't believe > swivels are weight- > > rated in a sheer situation. They're best used in > compression. > > Cheseboros (TM) are to be used only for pipe > positioning. They are not > rated to carry a load. To do the swiveling > tail-down idea folks should > invest in the Doughty full couplers. They have an > impressive rating. > > Steve L. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060130143154.27376.qmail [at] web52209.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 06:31:54 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Marsland Subject: Re: Tail Downs In-Reply-To: Oops -- I said Tony and Steve, I meant Cris and Steve -- thanks for the heads up on the couplers. Paul __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060130150146.60477.qmail [at] web50609.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:01:46 -0800 (PST) From: b Ricie Subject: odd/ mistaken equiptment titles In-Reply-To: I heard the mention of a hamster last night on the television. I looked up and was confused for a brief moment as they were showing a small furry creature. Kinda fan to laugh at yourself now and again. Brian Rice 508-685-0716 b_ricie [at] yahoo.com "Blessed are the cracked: For it is they who let in the light." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:03:33 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Job titles In-reply-to: Message-id: <43DE2AC5.5080700 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- >>Yeah, this ain't Jeffrey's first rodeo. > > > I took Drama in high school. You and everybody in the world. I can't go anywhere without someone saying, "Oh, I did lighting/sound/scenery/whatever in High school." Do lawyers and accountants get this from people they meet? "You're a lawyer? I used to argue in High school." "Oh, you're an accountant? You know, I used to add in Middle school." :-D Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:07:14 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: tech riders In-reply-to: Message-id: <43DE2BA2.2060305 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References:

C. Dopher wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > I'll admit to being a little confused here. Are you saying that some > house pigtails have all five as femaile camlock, as opposed to 3F, 2M? > Don't (all/most) manufacturers of dimmer racks and such provide G&N > reversed as standard? Or am I not reading something right here? Dimmer manufacturers supply racks in whatever configuration you order. "Standards" mean different things to different people, unless written into a governing document such as the NEC. And I don't believe that the NEC mentions reversing G&N, but I'm sure that Mitch or Eddie will be along shortly to clarify. :) Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:10:50 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Looking for solutions to use show control to run sound cues off an Obsession In-reply-to: Message-id: <43DE2C7A.1000002 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: Edward Hunter wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I'd like to be able to use the MSC go's off my Obsession to run sound cues off a > laptop. I'm trying to assemble a list of options to look at. Since I'm just > looking at running sound something simple (i.e. inexpensive) should do the > trick. What packages would you all recommend I look at. In my web searching > I've found something called SCS-professional that would seem to do the trick. > Anything else I should look at? Thanks. Get to know ETC's Obsession service guys (gender inclusive "guys"). I tried to use the Obsession's MSC features to trigger some sound cues last semester and couldn't get any of our sound programs to recognize the "go." In the end we had to send the "go" from the sound computer to the Obsession. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Job titles Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:11:03 -0500 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A042A9AEA [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" > > I took Drama in high school. > =20 > You and everybody in the world. I can't go anywhere without someone=20 > saying, "Oh, I did lighting/sound/scenery/whatever in High school."=20 > Do lawyers and accountants get this from people they meet? >=20 > "You're a lawyer? I used to argue in High school." > "Oh, you're an accountant? You know, I used to add in Middle school." I suppose that's better than saying "I used to play doctor with so-and-so in high school..." or whatever. Actually, I never took drama in high school. I did, however, take part in mock trial. And a good friend of mine (who was our mock trial team's lead attorney) did become a lawyer--after playing Cervantes in "Man of La Mancha" senior year. Go figure. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:16:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Job titles From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Uh, why would that be better? On 1/30/06 10:11 AM, "Paul Schreiner" wrote: > I suppose that's better than saying "I used to play doctor with > so-and-so in high school..." or whatever. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <58f67b0f0601300730h6eb5d7b6o486d9e2855c80dc4 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:30:38 -0600 From: Michael Powers Subject: Re: Looking for a carpenter with a shop "Jon Ares" writes: <> Jon, We're quite a ways from Portland but we do exactly what you're looking for. If shipping time and cost don't make it impractical, let me know what you're thinking about and what your budget and time line are, and I'll give you an estimate. Michael Michael Powers Director of Operations Central Lighting & Equipment 1720 Fuller Rd. Suite 150 West Des Moines Iowa 50265 515-277-4190 877-977-4190 Fax 515-277-2295 515-557-0178 cell michael [at] clelights.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060130153126.66608.qmail [at] web81501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:31:26 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Heinicke Subject: Re: Tail Downs In-Reply-To: --- Stephen Litterst wrote: > Cheseboros (TM) are to be used only for pipe > positioning. They are not > rated to carry a load. To do the swiveling > tail-down idea folks should > invest in the Doughty full couplers. They have an > impressive rating. I have Cheseboro STYLE clamps that are rated. The rigid is rated at 1500lbs WLL and the swivel at 750lbs WLL with a 4:1 safety factor. I bought them from a scaffold company called Safway (www.safway.com) that has branches nationwide. Mike Heinicke ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:37:14 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Tail Downs In-reply-to: Message-id: <43DE32AA.2060706 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: Michael Heinicke wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > I have Cheseboro STYLE clamps that are rated. The > rigid is rated at 1500lbs WLL and the swivel at 750lbs > WLL with a 4:1 safety factor. I bought them from a > scaffold company called Safway (www.safway.com) that > has branches nationwide. A fair point. Bottom line being that we should all (squints, splints, and squeeks included) make sure that the hardware we are using is rated for the application. It's better to call Uncle Bill and ask some questions beforehand, than to have the insurance company call him as an expert witness afterwards. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060130154143.87816.qmail [at] web51712.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:41:43 -0800 (PST) From: Norman Lazarus Subject: Re: odd / mistaken equipment titles (or what will they think In-Reply-To: My personal favorite was watching a lighting designer and her assistant talk about lighting a room for a corporate event. The room and several columns that would impact the design and the two proceeded to discuss wether they should use Roscoe Beam Stop or Beam Bend and if it still came in one liter bottles. All of this occuring while the client was standing next to them. Client never had a clue. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <43DE3792.2040306 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:58:10 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Organization: I'm working on that.... Subject: Re: tech riders References: In-Reply-To: Bill Nelson wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >> It seems it is an east coast west coast thing, east coast want the g and n >> reversed, west coast straight forward male to source. Just like your >> anything you plug in male to source including your house. Computers are >> different world. > > That still does not explain WHY a person would want the connectors reversed. > > If you need the benders, that means 4 more connections to be made - it > what are sometimes pernickity connectors. > > Bill > The only reason I can think of is to catch the person with red/green or blue/green color blindness from hooking them up wrong. Since red/green color blindness is the most common in males, and sometimes the person doesn't realize that they have it, I don't think GN gender swap is a bad practice. But it is not a solution, merely a stop-gap. --Dale ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Peter Scheu" Subject: RE: Tail Downs (Equipment ratings) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:08:23 -0500 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: In-reply-to: RE: Cheesebroughs and similar clamps, even ones that are rated... Be careful... It's not always clear what the ratings mean. The Safway = clamp literature says it has been tested to 4,000 lb and has a "rating" of = 1,000 lb. But it doesn't make clear what that means, or under what conditions = the clamp failed. In what manner/direction was the 4,000 lb applied? What happened at = 4,000 lb? Did the clamp start sliding down the vertical? Did the bolt blow = out? Did the casting shatter? Not even Unca Bill might know these things, and he knows just about everything! That's why it's important (I again say, ad nauseum) that if = in doubt, you have to contact the manufacturer directly, explain how you're using their product, and verify if the ratings apply. You might get a reaction from Safway along the lines of "Well, that's = the rating only when used in a properly designed scaffolding system, not how you're using it. We design to support people and equipment on planks = above, not to hang 'taildowns' for lighting equipment". Ya gotta be extremely careful about relying on ratings. Yeah, my SUV is rated to pull 3,000 lb, but that's assuming I'm pulling my boat on a = wheeled trailer, and not trying to pull out a tree stump. Maybe not the best example, but I hope I make my point. Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. www.scheuconsulting.com Tel: 315.422.9984 fax: 413.513.4966 ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:14:36 -0500 From: "richard j. archer" Subject: Re: Tail Downs > > >I have Cheseboro STYLE clamps that are rated. The >rigid is rated at 1500lbs WLL and the swivel at 750lbs >WLL with a 4:1 safety factor. I bought them from a >scaffold company called Safway (www.safway.com) that >has branches nationwide. > >Mike Heinicke Me too. I've used them since 1976. They work better than any of the other brands we have here at Cornell (we've got quite an assortment). They open just a bit further so they are easier to slip around a pipe. I think a NYC supplier is now selling a rated clamp (and making it in black). I saw it at some trade show. USITT? LDI? IAAPA? Dick A TD Cornell U ------------------------------ From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Joe=20Golden?= Subject: Re: tech riders Date: 30 Jan 2006 08:23:36 -0800 Message-ID: If your sparky is color blind they won't confuse gnd/nut with any hot = legs. I just think it is a plot by the cam manufacturers to get us to buy= those expensive turnarounds Joe Golden Sent from my Treo -----Original Message----- From: Bill Nelson Date: 1/29/06 6:26 pm To: Stagecraft Subj: Re: tech riders For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- > Having toured with straight cams (not G&N reversed) I've found that = almost > exactly half of the venues I was in had them reversed. About a third of > those that had them reversed had adaptors. OK. What is the rational for reversing G&N? Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000d01c625bc$110be770$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: odd / mistaken equipment titles Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:41:49 -0800 > On a set of drawings for an opera, the designer succeeded in making every > note referring to that outdoor space with flowers and bushes as the > "Graden". My wife and I work in the graden now whenever we get a chance. I worked on a production of Mucus Man years ago where the set designer kept referring on the drawings to the "gazbo." Forevermore, those white pavillions in parks will now be gazbos to me. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ From: "JUSTIN DAVID BENNETT" Subject: RE: 1000kw par vs 575 ETC par Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:19:17 -0600 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Unlike some of the others on this list I have not done a side by side comparison, but I don't remember the S4 par having as much punch (intensity through dark color) as I wanted. On the upside, you can dimmer double them, but in an R&R setup I'm guessing that feature is less important. Justin Bennett Technical Director / Theatre Manager St. Philip's College - Watson Fine Arts Center jbennett43 [at] mail.accd.edu (210) 531-4706 Office (210) 531-4768 Fax -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Kyle Dugger Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 3:13 PM What your opinions comparing a 1000kw par and an ETC 575w instrument. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:51:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Tail Downs From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Actually, I refuse to do expert witness stuff. I tried it. I hate the process. It never really works for the good of the individual or the industry. It's only the lawyers that make anything. But it is better to call. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 1/30/06 10:37 AM, "Stephen Litterst" wrote: > It's better to call Uncle Bill and ask some questions beforehand, than > to have the insurance company call him as an expert witness afterwards. ------------------------------ From: "JUSTIN DAVID BENNETT" Subject: RE: Job titles Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:59:48 -0600 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a friend who likes to say (in a stereotypically cheesy Asian accent) "Technician like ninja... live in shadow... move in silence" Justin Bennett Technical Director / Theatre Manager St. Philip's College - Watson Fine Arts Center jbennett43 [at] mail.accd.edu (210) 531-4706 Office (210) 531-4768 Fax -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Davis, Thomas J In recent years, some of my students have referred to the stage crew as "en and Women in Black" and "Ninjas." ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <68.64fe80af.310fbf9f [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:14:39 EST Subject: Re: side lighting In a message dated 29/01/06 23:34:09 GMT Standard Time, deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes: > If your biggest problem is removing/replacing hook clamps then you've got an > easy ride, I reckon! > Just done that very thing with 4 sets of four multi-pars as side lights for > our panto. Actually,the big problem is in finding all the hook clamps, bolts, and wing nuts after someone else's sloppy get-out. Also, many of our lanterns are old enough to have an imperial thread in the yoke. M8 and 5/16 Whit are too close for comfort, and there is always the possibility that some clown has mixed them, which is just about possible. This needs two spanners (wrenches) and a lot of effort to unscramble, usually when you are short of time. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "Tony Deeming" Subject: RE: side lighting Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:23:26 -0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > Actually, the big problem is in finding all the hook clamps, > bolts, and wing > nuts after someone else's sloppy get-out. Also, many of our > lanterns are old > enough to have an imperial thread in the yoke. M8 and 5/16 Whit > are too close > for comfort, and there is always the possibility that some clown > has mixed them, > which is just about possible. This needs two spanners (wrenches) > and a lot of > effort to unscramble, usually when you are short of time. > > > Frank Wood > Then you're doing it wrong!! 8-)) Doesn't matter what bolts are in the lanterns - they'll still go thru the hole of the boom arm with space to spare! So the bolt/wing nut/washers etc stay with the lantern. Newer lanterns with un-threaded yokes I always have a pre-tightened straight nut & bolt secured to the yoke anyhow - makes for easier focussing. So again, the wing nut & washers stay with lantern. All then you have to do is re-locate the hook clamps. Tada! TD ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <2dc.16763e8.310fc2d3 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:28:19 EST Subject: Re: Looking for a carpenter with a shop In a message dated 30/01/06 01:27:47 GMT Standard Time, theatre [at] dreampossible.ca writes: > You certainly won't get any such flames from me. Our typical production > budget is $10,000, and two other groups we work closely with have much > smaller budgets. ISTM small theatres are the heart and soul of theatre - > giving you alternatives to the huge-budget, huge-ticket-cost > megaproductions. Nor from me. Our typical budget is less than $1,000. To be fair, all that this has to cover is set, props, costumes, and consumables. We own the theatre, the lights and sound and their controls, plus a fair amount of standard rostra, and scaffolding, so it's not as bad as it may seem, since there are few hire costs. See my photographs of "The Seagull", posted on 'photobucket under my name. That is what we can do, given a talented designer. Of course, all the labour comes free. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <233.6055e87.310fc598 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:40:08 EST Subject: Re: tail downs In a message dated 30/01/06 03:01:23 GMT Standard Time, billn [at] peak.org writes: > > The only dance show I used to do was for a local dance school, and half > > the cast were only 4' high, and so I never dared to try. I had to > compromise > > at about 6', which is less satisfactory. Kids and hot luminaires don't mix. > > > Hm. I will have to remember that the next time I light the local ballet > company. I have always used shins - and the youngest dancers are about 6 > years old. Never had a problem. I think you've been lucky. I once lost half a row of kids into the cyc lighting pit. OK, I hit the master blackout, which was a contactor disconnect, turned on the working lights, and waited until the confusion had subsided before resuming the show. These days, if little Katie burns her fingers on a hot lantern, you have her parents, their lawyers, and all the safety authorities down on you like a ton of bricks. I prefer to play safe, and compromise the lighting. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-Id: <7.0.0.16.0.20060130130539.01f2b980 [at] interstellar.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:15:09 -0800 From: Jerry Durand Subject: plastic drilling I have a client who wants 122 prototypes that have a LOT of holes in the box. Anyone know of a low cost machine shop (or have one in house) that could do this? I normally make the prototypes, but my mill is not CNC, this would take forever. Details (hole dimensions are approximate, measuring from sample)... Qty: 122 boxes Box: Serpac H-65 http://www.serpac.com/products_h-65.htm ABS plastic What needs doing: Front surface has 150 holes, all 0.090". One long side has a 0.250" hole, two 0.110" holes, and a small slot for a slide switch. The removable end panel has one 0.190" hole. Please contact me off-list. Thanks. -- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Maurice Moe Conn" Subject: Resume Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:22:05 +0000 Hey Ya'll, We changed our name from Cumberland College to the University of the Cumberlands...OK... On a Resume should I/students change the Institution name on their resumes for the shows done prior to the change to reflect the change? Thanks Moe Help support Long Reach Long Riders 2006 Charity Ride. For Donation and/or Rider information, Check out: www.lrlr.org ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Resume Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:31:04 -0500 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A042A9AEE [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" > We changed our name from Cumberland College to the University of the=20 > Cumberlands...OK... >=20 > On a Resume should I/students change the Institution name on=20 > their resumes=20 > for the shows done prior to the change to reflect the change? For students, I believe the SOP is that they use whatever name they graduated under. For you...well, when Longwood University changed it's name from Longwood College, I didn't go and add another line to my resume. I basically took the same tack, as it had been a university for a year or two before I started sending out resumes again. Then again, I wasn't listing my stuff on a per-show basis. I for one, when I was producing, got a little peeved (that's too strong a word, though) when I'd see a resume that listed stuff per-show, and had multiple theatres/producing companies in the list, but then in conversation found out that one name is the current school name, name number two was the old school name, name number three is the name of the drama club or organization, and name number four was the name of the theatre in which they hosted their summer stuff. If it's all one organization, even if it has undergone a name change, the resume should reflect that. YMMV ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060130214956.42330.qmail [at] web33107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:49:56 -0800 (PST) From: June Abernathy Subject: Re: tech riders >OK. What is the rational for reversing G&N? >Bill The rational, as I understand it, is to prevent careless and/or colorblind folks from accidentally plugging a hot line into a ground or nuetral, or vice versa. And, yes, no matter which system your house has, or your show carries, you will almost certainly encounter the other one at some point, so having/carrying adapters is wise. Having/carrying Tees is also wise. And since these things are expensive and handy and easy to wander off with, it is also wise to mark the hell out of them and lock them up/chain them to the distro/etc. whenever possible. Many touring shows carry the hots bundled together and the G&N bundled separately, so they can be run either way. June Abernathy IATSE #321 (Tampa, FL) FOH Electrician The Lion King National Tour (Gazelle) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1c5.3927e224.310ff915 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:19:49 EST Subject: Re: tech riders In a message dated 30/01/06 12:59:20 GMT Standard Time, billn [at] peak.org writes: > That still does not explain WHY a person would want the connectors reversed. > > If you need the benders, that means 4 more connections to be made - it > what are sometimes pernickity connectors. It seems bizzarre to me, but I am a European. At the connection point, the current-supplying conductors on the panel should all be female, and this includes the neutral. With an unbalanced load, the neutral potentials can be high The earth (ground) may be either way, but male seems advisable to me, if only so that it's harder to mis-connect. Maybe bolting lugs on bus-bars is safer. This is normally done by competent electricians. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:25:28 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: tech riders In-reply-to: Message-id: <43DEA068.20604 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > It seems bizzarre to me, but I am a European. At the connection point, the > current-supplying conductors on the panel should all be female, and this > includes the neutral. With an unbalanced load, the neutral potentials can be high The > earth (ground) may be either way, but male seems advisable to me, if only so > that it's harder to mis-connect. > > Maybe bolting lugs on bus-bars is safer. This is normally done by competent > electricians. Your colour code also makes it much harder for a color-blind electrician to connect something to ground. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1e4.4b522c85.310ffa8b [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:26:03 EST Subject: Re: tech riders In a message dated 30/01/06 13:04:52 GMT Standard Time, brooklyn [at] dopher.com writes: > I'll admit to being a little confused here. Are you saying that some > house pigtails have all five as femaile camlock, as opposed to 3F, > 2M? Don't (all/most) manufacturers of dimmer racks and such provide > G&N reversed as standard? Or am I not reading something right here? You and all of us. But it seems to be a US custom that ground and neutral are interchangeable, when it makes a sort of sense. We, in the UK, apply different and, I think, higher standards. Wth us, a ground-neutral cross is a wiring fault, to be eliminated. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <43DEAA28.2060306 [at] gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:07:04 -0500 From: Brian James Reply-To: brianedwardjames [at] gmail.com Subject: Re: tech riders References: In-Reply-To: Of course, the really scary thing as that a lot of the people using these connections would be people that tie directly to lugs in the box, and we rely only on color code there (or a good meter when in doubt). FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >In a message dated 30/01/06 13:04:52 GMT Standard Time, brooklyn [at] dopher.com >writes: > > > >>I'll admit to being a little confused here. Are you saying that some >> house pigtails have all five as femaile camlock, as opposed to 3F, >> 2M? Don't (all/most) manufacturers of dimmer racks and such provide >> G&N reversed as standard? Or am I not reading something right here? >> >> > >You and all of us. But it seems to be a US custom that ground and neutral are >interchangeable, when it makes a sort of sense. We, in the UK, apply >different and, I think, higher standards. Wth us, a ground-neutral cross is a wiring >fault, to be eliminated. > > >Frank Wood > > > -- Brian James ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:22:52 -0600 From: Patrick Immel Subject: Speaking of Resumes Hello All, Moe's resume question got me to thinking. I will be going up for my 3 year tenure review next year and need to include my curriculum vitae.=20 I have a vitae right now but I am wondering what format has been successful (tenure or otherwise) for others. I am asking, if anyone would be willing to share their vitaes with me? Thanks in advance! Pat -- Patrick Immel Lighting and Scenic Designer Northwest Missouri State University patrickimmel.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <43DEB421.4010600 [at] StudioOneSB.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:49:37 -0500 From: Richard Bakos Organization: Studio One Inc. Subject: Re: Job titles References: In-Reply-To: But the one I love even more is.... "Bob says .......... and he runs the sound ( lights ) at Church." For the life of me I cannot figure out how some one who runs a 3 mic system once a week at church is an expert but I sure see enough of them. Running a close second is Bill the DJ who's two speakers and a cd player also makes him an expert at pro sound. Stephen Litterst wrote: > You and everybody in the world. I can't go anywhere without someone > saying, "Oh, I did lighting/sound/scenery/whatever in High school." Do > lawyers and accountants get this from people they meet? > > "You're a lawyer? I used to argue in High school." > "Oh, you're an accountant? You know, I used to add in Middle school." > > Steve L. -- Richard Bakos President Studio One Inc. 25833 State Road 2 South Bend, In 46619-4736 VOICE 574-232-9084 FAX 574-232-2220 Rick [at] StudioOneSB.com www.StudioOnesb.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Laura McMeley" Subject: RE: Job titles Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:55:24 -0600 Message-ID: <00a701c62601$052177a0$6600a8c0 [at] tdolighting01> In-Reply-To: Actually, around here, the churches often have more gear than the theatres. I have a friend who used to make a good living designing church pageants. Guess that's what happens when you live in the buckle of the bible belt. :) Laura Dallas, Texas 972-333-5016 > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Richard > Bakos > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 6:50 PM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Re: Job titles > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > But the one I love even more is.... "Bob says .......... and he runs > the sound ( lights ) at Church." For the life of me I cannot figure out > how some one who runs a 3 mic system once a week at church is an expert > but I sure see enough of them. Running a close second is Bill the DJ > who's two speakers and a cd player also makes him an expert at pro sound. > > > Stephen Litterst wrote: > > > You and everybody in the world. I can't go anywhere without someone > > saying, "Oh, I did lighting/sound/scenery/whatever in High school." Do > > lawyers and accountants get this from people they meet? > > > > "You're a lawyer? I used to argue in High school." > > "Oh, you're an accountant? You know, I used to add in Middle school." > > > > Steve L. > > -- > > Richard Bakos > > President > > Studio One Inc. > > 25833 State Road 2 > > South Bend, In 46619-4736 > > VOICE 574-232-9084 > > FAX 574-232-2220 > > Rick [at] StudioOneSB.com > > www.StudioOnesb.com > > ------------------------------ Subject: NY Times copyright article Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:00:30 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Michael Finney" OK, so I'm honestly *not* trying to resurrect the whole "ownership" string again, but I came across an interesting article on some of the copyright issues that are becoming more prevalent in theatre. Deferring to Richard's opinion, it seemed to do a decent job of laying out some of the issues in a coherent form (in contemporary use, anyway). Back to trying to estimate a project so I can get home to my bun-head wife! http://tinyurl.com/9dzsn http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/29/theater/newsandfeatures/29gree.html?pa gewanted=3D2&_r=3D1&th&emc=3Dth =20 Michael Finney Thinkwell Design & Production mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com www.thinkwelldesign.com=20 Unrelated - my favourite impolite description of an actor came from a very well known director who was tired of one of the spear carriers constantly asking for direction: "Dear, at this point you are just scenery without a stagehand attached" ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:59:44 -0500 From: Delbert Hall Subject: Re: Speaking of Resumes In-Reply-To: References: Pat, I am happy to send you resume, but I really don't think the format is all that critical for T&P. What I think is critical it that your resume clearly shows your activities in teaching, research, and service. TEACHING activities would included a list of courses taught, and courses developed, as well and any teaching awards and workshops/seminars that you have attended that are relative to teaching. RESEARCH/SCHOLARLY activities include books and articles written, papers presented and panels at conferences, and design works. Also include awards and recognitions relative to this area, and workshops/seminars that you have attended related to research. SERVICE activites can be very broad and related to your department, college, university, commumity, and professional. Include everything that applies. I have always felt that the best candidates for T&P are ones who can present evidence that they are well-rounded (having substantial activiies in each of these areas), and who can show that they have a regional or national reputation of excellence in at least one aspect (design, TD, rigging, teaching, service, etc). Essentially, your university wants you to show them that you are worthy of keeping and promoting, and one way to do this is to present evidence of the quality of your work. Think is this process as a kind of trial, and the burden of proof is on you to show that you have the qualifcations needed. The odd things is that you really don't know where the bar is set, so you have to present any evidence that you feel will show that your work is at the highest level possible. Be careful not to over burden the committee with lots of crap. Be selective, but be complete. You may be required to be evaluated by an outside reviewer. I am doing an outside T&P review in February. These reviews can take on different forms. But, no matter what the form, the key is for the candidate to show his/her qualifations in the three areas list above in a clear fashion. I try to rank the candidate so that the institution know at what level I view the candidate in each area and overall. I hope this helps. -Delbert -- Delbert L. Hall ZFX Flying Director Phone: 714-585-7070 ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <2d2.2043102.31101282 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:08:18 EST Subject: Re: NY Times copyright article In a message dated 1/30/06 7:58:16 PM, mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com writes: << Back to trying to estimate a project so I can get home to my bun-head wife >> your wife is a ballet dancer ? very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:16:59 -0600 From: Patrick Immel Subject: Re: Speaking of Resumes In-Reply-To: References: On 1/30/06, Delbert Hall wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Be careful not to over burden the committee with lots of crap. Be > selective, but be complete. > Thanks Delbert! I actually have a pretty good grip on what I need and what I have for tenure. I think that the vitae is a good "snap shot" of your career. I thought I'd see what other successful vitaes looked like. I think I have alot of the big stuff now i am just looking for the little things! You know...anything I can do to better my chances! Did you ever have tenure or do you have it now? Your statement above sounds like something from one of my administrators...vague! -- Patrick Immel Lighting and Scenic Designer Northwest Missouri State University patrickimmel.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <90d9c9980601301729l523b4211q6edd667f504206b [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:29:05 -0500 From: Scott Parker Subject: Re: NY Times copyright article In-Reply-To: References: Oh, Oh, I know! Star Wars? ;-) On 1/30/06, IAEG [at] aol.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > In a message dated 1/30/06 7:58:16 PM, mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com writes= : > > << Back to trying to estimate a project so I can get home to my bun-head > wife >> > > your wife is a ballet dancer ? > > very best, > > Keith Arsenault > > IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group > Tampa, Florida > -- Take care, Scott =09Scott C. Parker =09Professor/Technical Director =09Dept. of Performing Arts =09Dyson College of Arts and Sciences [at] Pace University =09Office/shipping: 41 Park Row, 1205F =09Mailing: 1 Pace Plaza =09New York, NY 10038 =09212-346-1423 Fax: 914-989-8425 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:37:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Speaking of Resumes From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: You may use mine but I think they'd notice.... Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 1/30/06 7:22 PM, "Patrick Immel" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Hello All, > > Moe's resume question got me to thinking. I will be going up for my 3 > year tenure review next year and need to include my curriculum vitae. > I have a vitae right now but I am wondering what format has been > successful (tenure or otherwise) for others. I am asking, if anyone > would be willing to share their vitaes with me? > > Thanks in advance! > Pat > > -- > Patrick Immel > Lighting and Scenic Designer > Northwest Missouri State University > patrickimmel.com ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1a2.44339526.311019e8 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:39:52 EST Subject: Re: Job titles _LMcMeley [at] msn.com_ (mailto:LMcMeley [at] msn.com) writes: << Actually, around here, the churches often have more gear than the theatres. I have a friend who used to make a good living designing church pageants. Guess that's what happens when you live in the buckle of the bible belt. :) >> We've got it here to. The Mega Churches are known for using media well - including video, lights and sound. My church has moving lights. I sit by the board op every time I go but NONE of them ever move. Oh well. Kristi ------------------------------ Message-ID: <6947c8d40601301806x248a71bftf04369708a844109 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:06:34 -0500 From: Miles Dudgeon Cc: ed.hunter [at] sun.com (Edward Hunter) Subject: Re: Looking for solutions to use show control to run sound cues off an Obsession In-Reply-To: References: Ed, I don't know what software your looking at for playback, or what would be best. However, almost all software responds to keyboard commands. You could even use media player. Keystroke from Rosco sends keyboard commands based on the DMX value it rece= ives. Right now it only works on Win XP, with a Mac version in the works. $395.00 catalog price, available from over 300 Rosco dealers nation wide. More info available here: http://www.rosco.com/us/software/keystroke.asp Its not MSC but its easy to set up and can be used for all kinds of fun thi= ngs. Thanks Miles Dudgeon Rosco Product Manager On 1/29/06, Edward Hunter wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I'd like to be able to use the MSC go's off my Obsession to run sound cue= s off a > laptop. I'm trying to assemble a list of options to look at. Since I'm = just > looking at running sound something simple (i.e. inexpensive) should do th= e > trick. What packages would you all recommend I look at. In my web searc= hing > I've found something called SCS-professional that would seem to do the tr= ick. > Anything else I should look at? Thanks. > -edh > > ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "C. Andrew Dunning" Subject: Churches (was RE: Job titles) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:15:20 -0600 Organization: Landru Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >We've got it here to. The Mega Churches are known for using >media well... No kidding. I've got as a client a church for which every Sunday is a 6-camera HD shoot - w. near 100 intelligent fixtures, scenery, and all in-house created media content. Some Sundays are pretty low-key w. not a lot of movement and some would rival a lot of touring pop shows. In fact, the quality of the media content there rivals just about anything on network TV these days... If you're at all interested in how things look there, give http://www.landrudesign.com/Gallery_FellowshipChurch.htm a visit. C. Andrew Dunning Landru Design - Nashville, TN - cad [at] landrudesign.com www.landrudesign.com ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "chip.a.wood" Subject: RE: Churches (was RE: Job titles) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:07:10 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Hate to say it, but some churches have MUCH more money to spend than theatres. Chip > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of C. > Andrew Dunning . I've got as a client a church for which every Sunday is a > 6-camera HD shoot - w. near 100 intelligent fixtures, scenery, and all > in-house created media content. > ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:29:57 -0500 From: Delbert Hall Subject: Re: Speaking of Resumes In-Reply-To: References: Patrick, I am a tenured full professor at East Tennessee State University, and I have sat on and chaired quite a few T&P committees. I have also done several outside reviews. I certainly did not intend to be vague, but it is not as if anyone is going to give you a checklist of things to do to get tenure (that would certainly take the "fun" out of the process). It is a very subjective process and different people will be looking for different things, that is why I feel being well-rounded is the best plan. I strongly suggest that you get a tenured faculty member (a well-respected old-timer) in your department to review your dossier and advise you on ways to strengthen it. That person should know what is expected at your institution. In my experience, research/creative activities seems to be the most closely reviewed area. Provide one "complete" example of your design work as both a lighting and a scenic designer as an example of your work. Other examples can be left "on file" in your department office if someone wants to see more (but they probably will not). I suggest you include examples of ALL your teaching materials from one course (lecture notes, tests, projects, etc) in your dossier, as an example. If you can show how well your former students have done, both professionally and as far as getting into respected grad programs, that is more evidence of the quality of your teaching. Your charge is to provide the evidence that clearly shows that you are a superior teacher, researcher (designer), and service provider. I cannot stress strong enough that organizing your materials well is a key part of having a good, convincing dossier. Good luck and let me know if I can be of assistance. -Delbert On 1/30/06, Patrick Immel wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > On 1/30/06, Delbert Hall wrote: > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Be careful not to over burden the committee with lots of crap. Be > > selective, but be complete. > > > > Thanks Delbert! I actually have a pretty good grip on what I need and > what I have for tenure. I think that the vitae is a good "snap shot" > of your career. I thought I'd see what other successful vitaes looked > like. I think I have alot of the big stuff now i am just looking for > the little things! You know...anything I can do to better my chances! > > Did you ever have tenure or do you have it now? Your statement above > sounds like something from one of my administrators...vague! > > > > -- > Patrick Immel > Lighting and Scenic Designer > Northwest Missouri State University > patrickimmel.com > -- Delbert L. Hall ZFX Flying Director Phone: 714-585-7070 ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #674 *****************************