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For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Stagecraft Digest, Issue #702

 1. Re: Multi cables and lift lines
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
 2. Re: Multi cables and lift lines
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
 3. Re: Multi cables and lift lines
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
 4. Re: Urgent help needed
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
 5. Re: Hanging Choir Mics
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
 6. Re: plotter/printer
    by "Thomas Schraeder" <tschraeder [at] hotmail.com>
 7. Re: Multi cables and lift lines
    by "Thomas Schraeder" <tschraeder [at] hotmail.com>
 8. Re: Conversion of gym to theatre space
    by "Robert Napoli" <run2 [at] psu.edu>
 9. Re: Multi cables and lift lines
    by June Abernathy <jea00321 [at] yahoo.com>
10. Re: Conversion of gym to theatre space
    by Dale Farmer <dale [at] cybercom.net>
11. Re: Conversion of gym to theatre space
    by "Curtis L. Mortimore" <clmortimore [at] bsu.edu>
12. Re: Tech riders
    by Michael Millar <houseomo [at] ix.netcom.com>
13. Re: Multi cables and lift lines
    by "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>
14. Re: circuit breaker
    by "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>
15. Re: How to drop a drop box.
    by "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>
16. Re: Tech riders
    by "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>

*** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject
*** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to
*** one message subject in each reply.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-ID: <43FE65D4.3050102 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:48:04 -0500
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Reply-To:  Rees [at] fredonia.edu
Subject: Re: Multi cables and lift lines
References: <list-27906474 [at] prxy.net>

Do you have a pin rail in addition to the CW system?  If so, you might 
be able to rig a loft block that would allow you to raise the elec to 
trim and then haul the umbilical up using a what is a spot line for all 
intents and purposes.  Belay the line at the pin rail in the usual 
fashion.  You would install a cable saddle about midpoint in the 
umbilical so that when you raised the umbilical, the swag would be well 
off the deck.  The saddle could go to what ever height required to get 
the swag out of sight lines.  Would result in fewer trips to the grid at 
least.
HTH
Steve Rees

Curtis L. Mortimore wrote:
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> All,
> 
> Thank you all for your suggestions on the drop boxes!!
> 
> An attempt at clarification on my lift-line vs. multi-cable question.


------------------------------

Message-ID: <43FE6635.6070607 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:49:41 -0500
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Reply-To:  Rees [at] fredonia.edu
Subject: Re: Multi cables and lift lines
References: <list-27906896 [at] prxy.net>

Bill,
Isn't this the $2 quickie? ;)
Steve



Bill Sapsis wrote:

> Damn.  I'm tired just reading this post.  Too many trips to the grid.
>> 
> Not sure how much to charge for this one....
> 
> Bill S.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:56:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Multi cables and lift lines
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <C023D1F8.9584%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-27908473 [at] prxy.net>

I'm getting too old for quickies......
Bill S.


On 2/23/06 8:49 PM, "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu> wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Bill,
> Isn't this the $2 quickie? ;)
> Steve
> 



------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060223191908.00d4c1f8 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:19:08
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: Re:Urgent help needed

>Is Madison/Middleton close enough?  See my sig 
>for contact info in the office

Henh, small world.  If she still works there, tell Erin that her old roomie
says, 'hey'.
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				MON AZ

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060223202433.00d4c1f8 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:24:33
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: Re: Hanging Choir Mics

>Audio-Technical ProPoint
>Audio-Technica UniPoint
>Crown CM 31
>EV RE90H
>Shure EasyFlex
>Shure MicroFlex

All decent mics, but I'd consider a true conmdenser for voice, especially
chorus, and possibly something narrower than a cardioid.  Depending on the
application, of course.  A narrower pattern allows you the hit that fifteen
by fifteen area from further back, hiding the mic, but they tend to also
have a lobe at the rear.  If the back of the thing isn't going to be
pointed at scrollers or moving light fans or motors, this might work for
you.  Other things to consider:  Cables 'permanently' attached to the mic
(AT).  These make swapping out a mic that's been 'carp focused' a bit more
challenging.  Miniature XLR's ain't too much better, but it gives you the
option of just unplugging one and plugging the loaner.  Cables permanently
attached between two lumps (mic and PS) are even worse.  
If hiding the mics is of great importance, of course smaller is better.
Smaller means more expensive.  Spend the money you've budgeted for these.
Finding cheaper mics and saving money just means you have to spend the
money on the 'real' mics again later.  Bargain mics' one purpose is to let
you limp by while you gather the resources to buy real mics. 'Limp' being
the operateive word.
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				MON AZ

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

Message-ID: <BAY101-F40AB76AFB3B83886E4668EC6F30 [at] phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <list-27905426 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Thomas Schraeder" <tschraeder [at] hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: plotter/printer
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:22:37 -0500

We use an HP DesignJet, model 740 if I remember.  36 inch wide, works like a 
charm as long as you know how to use it.

You might want to think about whether running them on a network is a good 
idea. We found that there was a lot of wasted paper in VectorWorks with 
students that failed to reset scaling, page size, etc...   We ended up with 
two plotters, one in the scene shop and a second in out lab.  While our set 
up requires the students (and faculty) to get to one of the two 
computer/plotter setups to print, it keeps the costs under control.

Hope that helps.

Tom Schraeder
Lighting Design
Wayne State University Theatre
4841 Cass Ave., Suite 3225
Detroit, MI 48202
313-577-7908 - office
313-577-0935 - fax





>From: Phil Johnson <Phil.Johnson [at] mail.tamucc.edu>
>Reply-To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
>To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
>Subject: plotter/printer
>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:09:33 -0600
>
>For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>What types of printers are you folks using to print large plots and 
>drafting output from your cad  programs.
>
>I am using vectorworks on a mac and we are thinking about Wysiwyg next year 
>and will be using a pc for that.  The art folks have a   24 inch wide 
>printer but they have archival inks and use it for digital prints.   Any 
>suggestions for a printer or plotter for at least 24 wide if not 36?
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Network would be nice and I need to be able to secure it if possible.
>Philip Johnson
>Designer/Technical Director
>Texas A & M -Corpus Christi
>



------------------------------

Message-ID: <BAY101-F3232E081D3EB0F2AF6DB9CC6F30 [at] phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <list-27906474 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Thomas Schraeder" <tschraeder [at] hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Multi cables and lift lines
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:31:52 -0500

We face a similar situation in one of our spaces.  Frequently, there is a 
free lineset adjacent to the electric with drop boxes.  We catch the multis 
about  15' off the deck and tie off to the adjacent batten.  Using it as a 
pick, we pull up the loops.  Takes a little thought on set up and operation, 
but uses our existing rigging and costs almost nothing.

Tom Schraeder
Lighting Design
Wayne State University Theatre
4841 Cass Ave., Suite 3225
Detroit, MI 48202
313-577-7908 - office
313-577-0935 - fax





>From: "Curtis L. Mortimore" <clmortimore [at] bsu.edu>
>Reply-To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
>To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
>Subject: Multi cables and lift lines
>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:07:20 -0500
>
>For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>All,
>
>Thank you all for your suggestions on the drop boxes!!
>
>An attempt at clarification on my lift-line vs. multi-cable question.
>
>Imagine a traditional proscenium theatre with a counter weight rigging
>system. Pick a batten, any batten. Fly this batten into the deck, it's
>lowest position. Hang a bunch of lights on it. Scramble up the grid and 
>drop
>a collection of electrical circuits down through the grid to the batten so
>the bottom end of the circuits are now at the same height off the deck.
>Secure the grid-end of these circuits to the grid. Stop and load the arbor
>while you're there. Prance back down to the deck and connect all of the
>circuits to your lights and secure the bottom ends to the batten. Voila, we
>have an "electric".
>
>Now fly the batten out to it's trim height. The resultant loop of 
>electrical
>cable hanging down is what I am combating. Here are the two solutions we
>have come up with. Both have drawbacks. I prefer option 2 and am looking to
>improve it.
>
>Option 1. Once the electric is at it's trim height. Run back up to the 
>grid.
>Pull up all of the excess cable. Re-secure it to the grid. Keeping in mind
>that you have now effectively dead-hung your batten. If you need to bring 
>it
>in for any reason this involves a trip to the grid to let the circuits back
>in, fly it in, do the maintenance, whatever, fly it back to trim, pull up 
>he
>excess and re-secure the circuits. I'm looking for a solution that allows 
>me
>to move the batten more easily.
>
>Option 2.  Drop the circuits near one of the batten lift-lines and, using
>some device, attach them together about one third of the distance from the
>batten to the grid. When the batten is flown out the circuits go with it 
>and
>the resultant loop is above the batten and sight lines. The downside is 
>that
>with our sneaky device we cannot fly the batten all the way out.
>
>The question is:  Does anyone have a preferred device to do this? Some of
>the criteria are: Rated for this type of application. Easily movable from
>one lift-line to the next. Cable friendly so as to not damage the lift 
>line.
>Fairly durable so that it could be re-used.
>
>I don't ask much do I?
>
>We have a couple tricks we use but I am not terribly enamored with them.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Thank you!
>
>--
>Curtis L. Mortimore
>Technical Director
>Ball State University
>Department of Theatre and Dance
>Muncie, IN 47306
><clmortimore [at] bsu.edu>
>



------------------------------

Message-Id: <200602240422.k1O4LvnY017294 [at] f05n15.cac.psu.edu>
From: "Robert Napoli" <run2 [at] psu.edu>
Subject: re: Conversion of gym to theatre space
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:22:49 -0500

Dang youse guys are smart! Thank you for the suggestions. 

 Yes, Steve this is a permanent installation. I have to admit when I started
working at a large university system I didn't understand how things work.
Now after being there for a semester I know less. I think all they need is a
figure- and you guys gave me a start at that. I just received the floor
plans for the space today and as I look at it and compare it to theatre
floor plans it seems like we will wind up with less than everyone here
expects- a smaller theatre, small shop, no studio to speak of. (Notice, I
will sacrifice a studio space over a shop).

Rob Napoli
Designer/TD 
PSU Berks Campus
run2 [at] psu.edu
Office (610) 396-6421
Cell    (484) 995-4425
Fax    (610) 396-6026




------------------------------

Message-ID: <20060224044841.76053.qmail [at] web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:48:41 -0800 (PST)
From: June Abernathy <jea00321 [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Multi cables and lift lines

>In our house they spot a line from the grid. One end
>is attached to a convenient point on the loop of
>cable, the other end is run to the fly rail
>and tied off. Then if we need to bring in the
>electric, the guy on the fly rail first lowers in the
>rope with the cable loop and then flies in the
>electric. All the loops of course, come off that side
>of the electric.

>Laura McMeley


This is essentially the system used in most of the
houses that I work in regularly, except that rather
than dropping a line straight from the pin rail or fly
rail, we usually spot a shiv on the grid just offstage
of the lineset in question, and then run the rope from
the fly rail/pin rail over the shiv and down to the
floor. We generally keep some weight (sandbag, short
pipe) on the free end until it is actually used.

Generally, you run all the cables from a given
electric offstage, guestimate a point that will allow
you adequate travel, and tie the rope off there
(usually in my experience with a clove hitch, although
various folks have their own favorite knots for this
application). I've seen people use a webbing loop or
rigging strap choked to the cable with a caribeaner,
so you can simply clip it to a pick line with a
bowline in it rather than tying it on. 

When you fly the electric, you have someone on the
rail who can pull the excess cable out and then tie
off the rope. You need enough slack for the piece to
do it's show moves, of course. Sometimes you can find
a point that will allow you to bring the pipe all the
way in and out without having to drop in the pick
line. Usually, you don't want that much slack.

Moving your drop box cables so that they all come in
to an offstage side of the pipes makes a lot of sense.
That way, they can be pulled out to an appropriate
pipe for use, and pulled back to an offstage wall when
not needed.



June Abernathy
IATSE #321 (Tampa, FL)
FOH Electrician
The Lion King National Tour (Gazelle)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

------------------------------

Message-ID: <43FE9293.5000500 [at] cybercom.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:58:59 -0500
From: Dale Farmer <dale [at] cybercom.net>
Organization: I'm working on that....
Subject: Re: Conversion of gym to theatre space
References: <list-27911837 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-27911837 [at] prxy.net>

Robert Napoli wrote:
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Dang youse guys are smart! Thank you for the suggestions. 
> 
>  Yes, Steve this is a permanent installation. I have to admit when I started
> working at a large university system I didn't understand how things work.
> Now after being there for a semester I know less. I think all they need is a
> figure- and you guys gave me a start at that. I just received the floor
> plans for the space today and as I look at it and compare it to theatre
> floor plans it seems like we will wind up with less than everyone here
> expects- a smaller theatre, small shop, no studio to speak of. (Notice, I
> will sacrifice a studio space over a shop).
>

   One handy trick one can do is to place the studio directly behind the 
stage, and make that wall an openable wall.  This allows you to use all 
that space for backstage during a production, but use the spaces 
separately during other times.

    --Dale

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 00:42:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Conversion of gym to theatre space
From: "Curtis L. Mortimore" <clmortimore [at] bsu.edu>
Message-ID: <C024070A.483C%clmortimore [at] bsu.edu>
In-Reply-To: <list-27912458 [at] prxy.net>

All,

I agree with Dale, big doors and the ability to combine spaces is awesome
and we do it a lot. That being said... I have to inject a word of caution
due to the design of the space I am currently working in. The concrete
block, back wall of our 350 seat proscenium theatre is the rear wall of the
3500 seat road house. When they book Yamato, the drummers of Japan, for the
same night we open Caucasian Chalk Circle we get to hear the pretty drums
throughout our show whether we want to or not. And vice versa, whomever is
loudest, wins. Though we haven't won yet that I am aware of. I'm not sure
how things get booked but I'm told we really don't get to pick.

Also, Our proscenium theatre shares a wall with the studio theatre and there
is a paper thin tin door between the shop and the stage... And no rehearsal
hall. This all leads to a bit of strife trying to get everything to co-exist
schedule wise. To this end I am a convinced there is a solid argument for
having a hallway, storage rooms, dead air, something, anything!  Some sort
of sound resistant separation between spaces to facilitate concurrent
activities.

Good luck!

-- 
Curtis L. Mortimore
Technical Director
Ball State University
Department of Theatre and Dance
Muncie, IN 47306
<clmortimore [at] bsu.edu>



------------------------------

Message-ID: <43FEA04C.4010708 [at] ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:57:32 -0800
From: Michael Millar <houseomo [at] ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Tech riders

Thank you to everyone who chimed in on this subject and expecially those 
who sent me sample riders.  Very informative looking at the extremes and 
the middle ground.

    June, your comments are well received.  This tour is on a SAG/AFTRA 
contract.  The biggest issue has been on the current and previous tour, 
which was their first, that their initial rider had very little to do 
with reality.  There has been considerable give and take on both sides.  
The presenting venues have been very gracious with the changes and 
additional requests. 
    They are looking at additional tours now, so I am hoping to nip 
these problems in the bud before they get too difficult.  I have gotten 
them to do CYA plots and plans.  They are realizing now the need for 
additional crew.  They cannot tour with their own props, etc.  The 
current tour no time off between one night stands in each city, a 
schedule that would probably be frowned upon were this an Equity 
contract.  Since it is a live mic show, it might make more sense to tour 
with their own sound tech.  The tour management company has suggested 
this as well.  Lights have always been and hopefully will continue to be 
fairly simple, but there have been issues when teaching  new board ops 
every day has become ineffective and tedious and consistency becomes 
lost altogether. But what kind of consistency is to be expected in a 
different venue every night.
And yes, contact information is always there.  Emails, my cell number, 
the sm's number.  Because there will always be questions.

Thanks, again, everyone.

Michael

------------------------------

Message-ID: <1141.208.51.52.85.1140767276.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org>
In-Reply-To: <list-27906516 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-27906516 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:47:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Multi cables and lift lines
From: "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>


> Now fly the batten out to it's trim height. The resultant loop of
> electrical
> cable hanging down is what I am combating. Here are the two solutions we
> have come up with. Both have drawbacks. I prefer option 2 and am looking
> to improve it.

There is another option, if you have enough room to extend the battens
into the wings far enough to be outside the sight lines. If that is the
case, you can drop your electrical cables to the end of the batten -
making them long enough that the batten can be lowered to the deck. When
you fly them out to trim height, the loop does not matter, as it will be
out of sight in the wings. Of course, you have to make sure that there is
nothing that the loops can get hung up on - and it may limit the height of
scenery pieces that can be moved in at those locations.

You can also rig tackle that will lift the loop out of the way - which can
be operated from the deck.

Bill


------------------------------

Message-ID: <1151.208.51.52.85.1140768493.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org>
In-Reply-To: <list-27900352 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-27900352 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 00:08:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: circuit breaker
From: "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>

> After a moment's work with a slide rule, it seems to me thet the 120/208V
> feed is actually two legs of a three-phase star, together with the
> neutral. If this is the case, I should prefer a two-pole breaker.

In the US, it is extremely rare to find three phase power. The feeds are
like you have, single phase. The difference is that we run the high
voltage to a pole pig outside the residence (or sometimes groups of
residences). The pig steps the voltage down and provides a center tap to
provide 120/240 volts.

> The UK doesn't have the problem of high power loads in the way you do.
> With our 230V standard feed, currents are within bounds. A 40A breaker and
> wiring
> feeds my cooker: the water heater by a 30A one. There are four others at
> 30A, for general outlets, and four at 10A for permanent lighting circuits

What difficulties? Our stoves, ovens, water heaters and other high wattage
loads are all 240 volts. That means they draw slightly less current for
the same wattage than your 230V.

We would not think of having 30A general outlet circuits at 230/240 volts.
Such circuits are usually limited to 20A at 120V. Lighting circuits are
usually 15A at 120V.

For anything that would require more than 20A at 120V, we usually use 240V.

Bill


------------------------------

Message-ID: <1160.208.51.52.85.1140768862.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org>
In-Reply-To: <list-27893013 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-27876909 [at] prxy.net> <list-27893013 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 00:14:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: How to drop a drop box.
From: "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>

> any flying theatrical kit I know about.  DMX splitter and tie
> wrap a DMX cable to each of these power cables as it hangs down
> from the ceiling.

I dislike running DMX parallel to power wiring, especially over long runs
and even more so for dimmer circuits that tend to have a lot of harmonics.
On occasion, the induced magnetic fields cause problems - and it is not
always predictable.

Bill


------------------------------

Message-ID: <1238.208.51.52.85.1140772583.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org>
In-Reply-To: <list-27913298 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-27913298 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:16:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Tech riders
From: "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>

> this as well.  Lights have always been and hopefully will continue to be
> fairly simple, but there have been issues when teaching  new board ops
> every day has become ineffective and tedious and consistency becomes
> lost altogether. But what kind of consistency is to be expected in a
> different venue every night.

That is why the tour should have a light board op and their own board with
DMX output. With simple plots, using house fixtures shouldn't be any
problem. You would just have to ensure that rehanging the needed
instruments could be accomplished - and that the venue uses DMX control
signals. With proper programming of the board, you probably would not have
to do many program modifications as you changed venues. The only problem I
can think of would be houses that are networked. I don't know if they
accept external DMX control.

Bill


------------------------------

End of Stagecraft Digest #702
*****************************