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X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 27947520; Sat, 25 Feb 2006 03:03:29 -0800 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.0 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL,BAYES_00, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.0 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on prxy.net X-Spam-Level: X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #704 Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 03:01:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #704 1. Re: Designers and consultants - A RANT! by "Matthew Breton" 2. Re: Designers and consultants by Stephen Litterst 3. Re: Designers and consultants - A RANT! by Stephen Litterst 4. unsubscribe by CAPTF53 [at] aol.com 5. Re: Designers and consultants by "Laura McMeley" 6. Re: Designers and consultants by "Matthew Breton" 7. Re: Mackie sound boards by Greg Bierly 8. Re: Designers and consultants by "Jon Ares" 9. Re: Designers and consultants by "Jon Ares" 10. Re: Designers and consultants (was: Intelligent Raceways (was Re: Distributed di by "Jon Ares" 11. Re: Designers and consultants by "Jon Ares" 12. Re: Designers and consultants by "Jon Ares" 13. Re: Designers and consultants - A RANT! by Bruce Purdy 14. Re: How to drop a drop box. by "Bill Nelson" 15. Re: Multi cables and lift lines by "Bill Nelson" 16. Re: circuit breaker by "Bill Nelson" 17. Re: Designers and consultants (was: Intelligent Raceways (was Re: Distribut by "Bill Nelson" 18. Re: Designers and consultants by "Bill Nelson" 19. Re: Designers and consultants - A RANT! by "Bill Nelson" 20. Re: Designers and consultants by Charlie Richmond *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Matthew Breton" Subject: Re: Designers and consultants - A RANT! Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:16:45 -0500 > The board (Series 300 - master and 5 panels) is so totally different >from any I've ever worked on that I was unable to figure it out on my own. >I >finally pulled out their old Colortran board from a dusty closet (I knew >they must have it there somewhere) and now I at least have some control! I've worked Strand 300 and 500s before. They have an entirely different syntax than an ETC, which most people are probably familiar with (hint: the * key is your friend), but I find that they're very competent consoles, and pretty well thought out. You just have to think the way they do. Wait til you try working with an M. Strand Lighting (strandlighting.com) has PDFs of all their manuals online. I work(ed) at one school where the entire install was Colortran. Crummy lights with poor output (not helped at all by the low maintenance the space got), and a clumsy lighting board. Matthew Breton Technical Director Cambridge Family YMCA Theater (617) 447-5261 (cell) www.cambymca.org >From: Bruce Purdy >Reply-To: "Stagecraft" >To: "Stagecraft" >Subject: Re: Designers and consultants - A RANT! >Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:14:52 -0500 > >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >Jon Ares wrote: > > The rest of the facility is in outstanding condition, from a tech point >of > > view - it's just too damn bad that its appearance is so bad. > > You're lucky in that regard! > > I was just asked to design lighting and some special effects in our >local High School's brand new (OK - a year old) Theatre. I won't tell you >what I'd like to do to the %#$* that designed this place! > > First off, he installed skylights over the house and stage! That's >right, sunlight comes pouring in during matinees! Fortunately, someone has >already gone up and slapped some black paint over the glass. > > Both the catwalk over the house, and the loading bridge have railings >at >chest height on both sides, completely covered with a heavy steel mesh. >Good >and safe - no student will fall off - until they have to climb over it in >order to actually reach any lighting instrument to try and focus it. (Let >alone change a gell.) The arbors at their highest position come to the >floor >of the loading bridge, so again, you can't reach them to add or remove >weight. > > Plug strips with 30 circuits on each of the three electrics would be >good if the electrics weren't completely full of striplights! > > They spared no expense in terms of equipment. There is a 400 amp >company >disconect with built in Camloc connectors and a safety interlock on the >door. It's beautiful! There is also 134 dimmers, not counting the >houselights. Most of the ERS units are zooms (Although you can't reach them >to change settings.) EVERY instrument, dimmer and control board is Strand. > > Of course I've never handled a Strand board, and had to learn it. >Unfortunately, there is no manual to be found, and not a single person in >the school system has the foggiest idea how to use it. They have one >pre-set >and just turn it on and off! > > > All I can figure is that whoever designed this monstrosity must have >been a Strand dealer, and selling that product was his only talent! > > Thanks for letting me blow off steam. > >Bruce >-- >Bruce Purdy >Technical Director >Smith Opera House > > _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:22:12 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Designers and consultants In-reply-to: Message-id: <43FFCD64.9000105 [at] ithaca.edu> References:

> --------------------------------------------------- > >> The rest of the facility is in outstanding condition, from a tech >> point of view - it's just too damn bad that its appearance is so bad. >> Pics of construction can be seen at www.wlhstheatre.org . I'm going to knock my head on that pipe sticking down in the followspot booth every time. I'm just sayin'... Steve L. -- Stephen Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College, Theatre Arts 607.274.3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:30:19 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Designers and consultants - A RANT! In-reply-to: Message-id: <43FFCF4B.1020504 [at] ithaca.edu> References: Bruce Purdy wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > The board (Series 300 - master and 5 panels) is so totally different > from any I've ever worked on that I was unable to figure it out on my own. I > finally pulled out their old Colortran board from a dusty closet (I knew > they must have it there somewhere) and now I at least have some control! > > All I can figure is that whoever designed this monstrosity must have > been a Strand dealer, and selling that product was his only talent! Bruce, give me a half hour of your time and I'll make you love that console. You'll sell your own child to get to program on it. But seriously, I have a 300, have taught myself most of its features and have gone to programming seminars to learn the ones I couldn't figure out. Give me a call the next time you do a show there and I'll be happy to lend a few hours of programming time. Or come down here some weekend and I'll give you a tour of our board. As Matthew Breton said, all the manuals are online at strandlighting.com but there are also a few cheat sheets and quickstart guides written by Bobby Harrell, one of Strands main programming gurus.. They're worth looking for. Or I can email them to you, I've got them on my hard drive. Steve L. Strand Fan. -- Stephen Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College, Theatre Arts 607.274.3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ From: CAPTF53 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <60.66d3752d.31312a47 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:34:31 EST Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Laura McMeley" Subject: RE: Designers and consultants Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:47:31 -0600 Message-ID: <015101c639be$34fa5bb0$6600a8c0 [at] tdolighting01> In-reply-to: Don't knock the color. I've seen worse. The Plano Courtyard Theatre was painted bright red/orange when it opened. All of the house as well as the stage walls. After being open for at least a year, they were able to get approval to paint the stage walls a dark navy blue, almost black (black isn't one of the "approved" colors in the color scheme. Not ideal, but much better than red/orange. Laura McMeley LD/ Dallas, TX 972-333-5016 > > > >> The rest of the facility is in outstanding condition, from a tech > >> point of view - it's just too damn bad that its appearance is so bad. > >> Pics of construction can be seen at www.wlhstheatre.org . > ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Matthew Breton" Subject: Re: Designers and consultants Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:42:09 -0500 >I'm going to knock my head on that pipe sticking down in the followspot >booth every time. Heh! I can recall at least three theaters where there was foam insulation of some sort either by a spot position or the stage manager's booth. Matthew Breton Technical Director Cambridge Family YMCA Theater (617) 447-5261 (cell) www.cambymca.org _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <1DF20D32-E6FE-40E2-A7BF-EB49A198D9A5 [at] dejazzd.com> From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: Mackie sound boards Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:40:53 -0500 > What are people using these days? I'm thinking I'm about to have to > start looking around.. With a lot of finagling I got my Yamaha M7CL-32 last Tuesday. It has been hooked up and operational since this Tuesday. So far it is wonderful. I know many of you are working on a mackie budget but I can lock out everything but the podium mic volume slider or have the full function of a digital console for the price of top of the line analog console (not to mention the cost of a full rack of compressors, eq's, and effects that I don't need to purchase). WOW! If anyone is looking at one the learning curve is not bad. I pretty much had it down in two 2 hour sessions. Greg Bierly ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000b01c639c6$44eb3190$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Designers and consultants Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:45:14 -0800 > peter, > Those would have been the obstructed seats for the first show that > doesn't use the control booth for their consoles. > Oh, and should I go into the situation with the Sound Consultant who didn't bother to actually consult with the users? I won't critique things like his equipment choices (for the most part, they're fine) - it's just that he wanted to bolt down the mixer in the booth, and NOT spec the multi-pin connection panel in the house mixing position so one actually COULD mix sound there. (The fact that the house mixing station became an architectural element apparently didn't register with him.) One tid-bit that shows how consulting would have been helpful: he originally spec'd a center cluster of speakers in the black box, plus about 6 wireless (handheld) mics, and a rack of sound equip mounted in a storage closet about 30' from the black box. (Which is only about 1700 sf, and designed to be 'flexible.' So we need a center cluster, and wireless handheld mics, WHY?) - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001701c639c6$aac98840$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Designers and consultants Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:48:05 -0800 >>peter, >>Those would have been the obstructed seats for the first show >>that doesn't use the control booth for their consoles. > > OK, just so long as there is a "good" reason... > > Expecting a lot of big road shows, Jon? Well, as much as the district "doesn't want to be a landlord," the theatre consultants (who are wonderful) and I pushed to make the building as "pro-friendly" as possible. That's generally the way we run the program, and for our 2 or more musicals a year, plus the several concerts, we mix from the house. We've also got a 400 Amp company switch backstage. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002101c639c7$013b81b0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Designers and consultants (was: Intelligent Raceways (was Re: Distributed dimming ....)) Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:50:30 -0800 > Very nice pics. Keep us posted. Are the seats in yet? The color in > those, the main curtain and floor treatment will tone down the beige as > long as they are not beige. Is that pig "storage" along the wall of the > loading rail? That is kinda cool. I would love to see more pics of > that. I want to know more. It could be a PIA or could be nice. Let us > know. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, that 'pig stoage' is really kewl! I've never seen that arrangement, but it seems to be a good idea, anyway. No bars or chains to hamper the access to the arbors, but not enough space for a body to fall through. (I did some tests to see if I could swing a pig onto an arbor through those 'pickets' and it was no trouble at all.) - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <004501c639c7$c048a7e0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Designers and consultants Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:55:51 -0800 > Frank wrote: >>And why do you want the consoles in >> the house? Sound, yes, for a live mix, but lighting, why? >> Just to clarify for Frank, at my space, the lighting desk is in the booth. At least for Final Dress and all performances. (We frequently set up a tech table with the ME/Board Op, while we're in dry tech, and one or two tech rehearsals.) We've got a lovely booth under construction, with stations for sound, lights, and PSM, plus an enclosed followspot booth above that, with room for 3 FS's. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <005d01c639c8$ebe195f0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Designers and consultants Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:04:14 -0800 > I'm going to knock my head on that pipe sticking down in the followspot > booth every time. > Yeah, I've got a few 6'4" students I'm going to assign to the FS booth on a regular basis. Actually, that's some sort of heat exchanger-sweat valve something-or-other that's temporary, they tell me. (Looks like it to me as well.) - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 00:42:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Designers and consultants - A RANT! From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Stephen Litterst wrote: > Bruce, give me a half hour of your time and I'll make you love that > console. You'll sell your own child to get to program on it. Actually Steve, knowing you are a Strand fan, I had thought about contacting you, and I might just take you up on your kind offer. I'm not averse to learning something new, and it would surely come in handy, but at this time I'm trying to figure out more basic stuff like "What the heck can I do with instruments that can't be aimed or focused", and (Thanks to a different board I'm already familiar with), where are they focused now? and What is connected to what dimmer? There is no documentation, and no one seems to know anything. This school has no drama department, just a bunch of "Wanna be actors" (Drama club) that hired a friend of mine to act as producer/director/advisor. He knows little about the tech end, and there isn't anyone in the school system that has any knowledge or interest in tech theatre. I was brought in to design (and it looks like probably operate) the lights and a couple of effects. There is no one that is responsible for the space, or has any understanding at all about what anything is or what it does. The problem isn't that I think the Strand is a bad board, it's just too much board for this situation. A much simpler, more intuitive board would have made much more sense here. Whilst I would like to learn the board, what happens beyond this one-off show? Who else in the school will work with it? There is no one that would be interested in learning it. Various teachers just turn it on for a concert or assembly, and turn it off afterwards! That's where my frustration lies. Between this and the lack of flexibility in the design of the space, I feel the high price tag equipment was a waste of taxpayers' money. Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1083.208.51.52.125.1140853047.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:37:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: How to drop a drop box. From: "Bill Nelson" > If you had to run them parallel, what's the minimum distance you'd put > between the DMX and the power lines? Or does that depend on the number > of lines, load, etc? As far away as possible. In practice, this usually means running power on one side of the batten pipe and the data cables on the other. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1087.208.51.52.125.1140853263.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:41:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Multi cables and lift lines From: "Bill Nelson" > BTW - and changing topics - does anyone have a "foolproof" method of > preventing the twist in traveler track handlines? And I'm not talking > about > securing the floorblock to the deck or using a demountable floor plate as > 90% of these things have to fly. I've tried sand bags, but they just spin > with the rope. The best I have managed is to use line meant for sheets/halyards on sailboats. It is not a twisted layup, so there is little if any twisting as tension changes. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1153.208.51.52.125.1140856727.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 00:38:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: circuit breaker From: "Bill Nelson" > If I read you right, each and every outlet wires straight back to its own > breaker at the distribution board. For the same installation, you would > have 14 > 20A three-core cables, or the eqiivalent, and 14 breakers. I have two 30A > cables, and one breaker. Which is the more economical installation? Absolutely not, except for legally mandated dedicated circuits like the range/stove and water heater. And these are usually hard wired instead of using plugs and outlets. To get roughly the same wattage as you have, we would need 6 120V/20A circuits (14400 watts total vs your two 208V/30A circuits at 12480 watts). 6 breakers would be required, but breakers are inexpensive. It also allows much more freedom in isolating a set of outlets without shutting down everything. We can use smaller gauge wiring and, without the necessity of a loop to cover all the outlets, the linear feet of wire used might easily be little greater than required for your system. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1237.208.51.52.125.1140858573.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:09:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Designers and consultants (was: Intelligent Raceways (was Re: Distributed dimming ....)) From: "Bill Nelson" > The rest of the facility is in outstanding condition, from a tech > point of view - it's just too damn bad that its appearance is so > bad. Pics of construction can be seen at www.wlhstheatre.org . Nice theatre for a relatively small community. Corvallis recently completed their new theatre at Corvallis High School. Any chance of visiting your facility in the near future? Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1269.208.51.52.125.1140860331.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:38:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Designers and consultants From: "Bill Nelson" > But, you may not obstruct a fire exit. And why do you want the consoles in > the house? Sound, yes, for a live mix, but lighting, why? This is a high school, not a professional theatre where the lighting designer will probably not even know the make of the board being used. Lighting cues are frequently set by the designer - and the board needs to be in the house for that. > Taking either out of the control room involves an awful lot of ad hoc > wiring, > the working lights are badly positioned, the communications are not there, > and are fully audible any way. When you get a cue wrong, and you will, all > the comments are also audible. It is easy with DMX control. And intercom connections are simple as well. The board is moved back to the booth for the actual performances. I have seen the BOH lighting location set up to be dual purpose. During shows, it can be used for handicapped seating - unless the bay is being used for sound mixing. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1312.208.51.52.125.1140861271.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:54:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Designers and consultants - A RANT! From: "Bill Nelson" > The board (Series 300 - master and 5 panels) is so totally different > from any I've ever worked on that I was unable to figure it out on my own. > I finally pulled out their old Colortran board from a dusty closet (I knew > they must have it there somewhere) and now I at least have some control! Not unusual for Strand boards. I have never run across one that was user friendly. I like boards that I can sit down and figure out in 15 minutes or so of experimentation for all basic functions. The two theatres where I do most of my designing has Bijou's, and they are "a piece of cake". The two thinks I don't like are 1) that they don't have any built in effects, such as chases, flicker etc and 2) there isn't any way to program an effect into a cue. I can teach a complete novice everything they need to use all the functions, except for patching moving light personalities, in less than an hour. As far as I am concerned, such boards are far more appropriate for high school use than ones with all the bells and whistles, but are difficult to learn. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 10:32:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Designers and consultants In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, Jon Ares wrote: > Oh, and should I go into the situation with the Sound Consultant who didn't > bother to actually consult with the users? This unfortunately happens all the time and is almost a given with new-build facilities since the owner rarely has determined much less negotiated with the intended users of their facilities. They just don't seem to think that far ahead... and of course their attitude is "everyone will want to use it and there will be new arts groups that form that we are not aware of now who will be dying to rent this wonderful place!" Arrrgggg.... it's always been this way and why should things ever change? Charlie ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #704 *****************************