Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 29822616; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 03:02:10 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2, AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS autolearn=no version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on localhost X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #790 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 03:01:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #790 1. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by "Samuel T. Fisher" 2. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by Jim Hyslop 3. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by Jim Hyslop 4. Re: designs on recent works by "Bill Nelson" 5. Re: Noisy Theatre Doors by "Bill Nelson" 6. Re: Inspector woes - cable dressing on a grid? by Mitch Hefter 7. Class for civilians WAS Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by MissWisc [at] aol.com 8. Re: Inspector woes - cable dressing on a grid? by "Bill Nelson" 9. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by "chip.a.wood" 10. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by MissWisc [at] aol.com 11. Re: Inspector woes - cable dressing on a grid? by seanrmc [at] earthlink.net 12. Re: designs on recent works by John McKernon 13. Re: designs on recent works by "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" 14. Re: Fat Frog 88 by "John Gibilisco" 15. Re: Orchestra Pit Safety by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 16. Re: Orchestra Pit Safety by "Laura McMeley" 17. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 18. Re: Healthy skepticism vs. old wives' tales and so on... by "RD" 19. Re: Healthy skepticism vs. old wives' tales and so on... by "RD" 20. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by "RD" 21. Re: Class for civilians WAS Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by "RD" 22. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by "Don Taco" 23. Re: Healthy skepticism vs. old wives' tales and so on... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 24. Re: the wonderful world of Opera by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 25. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 26. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 27. Re: Orchestra Pit Safety by "RD" 28. Re: the wonderful world of Opera by "RD" 29. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by "RD" 30. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by "RD" 31. Re: Rack for Flying Advice by 32. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by 33. Missing Digests by 34. Re: Orchestra Pit Safety by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 35. Re: Cable paths... by "Alf Sauve" 36. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 37. Re: Orchestra Pit Safety by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 38. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by Jim Hyslop 39. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by Jim Hyslop 40. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by Jim Hyslop 41. Re: Class for civilians WAS Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by Clive Mitchell 42. Re: Class for civilians WAS Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by "RD" 43. Re: Mayor's Wife Falls into Orchestra Pit by 44. Sobering Thought by 45. Re: Class for civilians WAS Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by Clive Mitchell 46. Re: Class for civilians WAS Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by Mark O'Brien 47. Re: Sobering Thought by John Bracewell 48. Re: Healthy skepticism vs. old wives' tales and so on... by "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" 49. Re: Sobering Thought by "Storms, Randy" 50. Re: the wonderful world of Opera by "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" 51. Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... by Dale Farmer *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <13850.69.137.53.15.1146313257.squirrel [at] webmail2.pair.com> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... From: "Samuel T. Fisher" > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >> Children (toddlers and younger) especially the adult kind, should not be >> allowed on stage unless there's somebody to hold their hand. > > Or they have parents who are stagehands and who let them run around so > they figure out where not to walk all by their lonesome...(within > reason, of course). > Hey I had my 18 month old onstage with me helping me put orchestra shells together. I put a pile of hardware on one end of the stage and assembled the shells on the other. The time it took him to walk across the stage by himself with one piece of hardware at a time was perfect for when I needed that piece. I'm not saying every child should be left to run around stage but they can be trained. Now the adult kind, with a toddler mentality, they are an entirely different story and if we are all lucky they will only hurt themselves. :-) Sam Fisher ------------------------------ Message-ID: <44537CCF.7050804 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:48:47 -0400 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... References: In-Reply-To: RD wrote: > You mean my 366 law suits as expert witness may increase. Egads. Well, I was > on the losing side 6 times, and maybe the lawyer had a little to do with my > failure. Maybe. Maybe? Doom Out of curiosity, and if answering wouldn't violate any confidentiality agreements, who generally engages you, the plaintiff or the defendant? -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Message-ID: <44537D78.7090700 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:51:36 -0400 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... References:

In-Reply-To: Idaho Scenic & Rigging wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Lemonade is hard to clean from a keyboard. That's it. Noah, if you're reading this, I would suggest modifying the auto-inserted line (above) to include something like: WARNING: It is highly recommended that you either place a protective cover over your keyboard, or you refrain from ingesting food or drink while reading messages on this list. :-) -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Message-ID: <2526.64.28.63.12.1146322386.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 07:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: designs on recent works From: "Bill Nelson" > the mix? Am I within my rights to ask for a portion of every recording > sold? Keep in mind that I am hired by the guy who is hired to provide > services and gear, and I only provide the mixes. It isn't like I'm going > to go try to find cash retro-actively, but I may use if as a lever for > insisting that they orchestrate these recordings instead of having me make > them up at doors. No, I don't think you would own the mix - although you might deserve a credit on any recording that is sold. You are hired to provide the mixes - including the recording mix - assuming it is in your contract. It should be as simple as just providing what comes out of the main speakers. Not much to orchestrate there. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <2531.64.28.63.12.1146322557.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 07:55:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Noisy Theatre Doors From: "Bill Nelson" > Well, 99% will contain some measure of levers, inclined planes, etc., but > the phrase (which escapes me now) is meant to keep some guy from taking > two inventions and hooking them up together to patent both as one 'new' > invention. What *is* the legalese for this? I believe that one qualifier is "not obvious to a reasonably well educated person" - or something to that effect. Bill ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20060429094606.01ff2e80 [at] mail.DesignRelief.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:06:05 -0500 From: Mitch Hefter Subject: Re: Inspector woes - cable dressing on a grid? In-Reply-To: References: Sean R. McCarthy wrote: >Mitch.... > >So what does this mean for shows that have open-ended runs and include >"decorative" lighting effects--christmas lights, etc? How about the >theatrical (lekos, pars, etc) rig? Is there any ambiguity for shows that >run for years, etc? > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mitch Hefter > > > >Temporary has a different meaning in the Code - 2005 NEC Article 590: > >590.3 Time Constraints > >(B) 90 Days. Temporary electrical power and lighting installations shall be > >permitted for a period not to exceed 90 days for holiday decorative > >lighting and similar purposes. > > > >We use portable stage lights which are often in place for a short duration > >(in layman's terms - temporary, but not in Code language). Sometimes, they > >are in place for an extended period. The lekos, pars, etc are the potable equipment and should be unaffected by the length of the show's run. The holiday/decorative clause in 590 is meant for Christmas tree lots, buildings, homes, and the like. When you are using these as part of your set, this really is a different application and environment. Temporary is most often applicable to construction sites and outdoor situations. That's not to say an inspector won't come up with the same question you pose. Also, since holiday decorative lighting does not normally meet the extra-hard cable requirement, please remember that this is normally part of a set piece and not viewed as a fixture (they are not listed as such) nor an extension cable. Also, Article 590 contains the following requirements: 590.6 Ground-Fault Protection for Personnel Ground-fault protection for personnel for all temporary wiring installations shall be provided to comply with 590.6(A) and 590.6(B). This section shall apply only to temporary wiring installations used to supply temporary power to equipment used by personnel during construction, remodeling, maintenance, repair, or demolition of buildings, structures, equipment, or similar activities. Handbook commentary (not an official interpretation, but often pulled from the deliberations on the Code) states: "Due to the more severe environmental conditions often encountered by personnel using temporary wiring while performing activities such as construction, remodeling, maintenance, repair, and demolition, there is generally an elevated exposure to electrical shock or electrocution hazards." You certainly don't see many GFCIs in theatre. This should help with showing that 590 doesn't normally apply to us (but may). As we've said many times on this list, knowledge of the Code and being able to demonstrate this along with a neat, workmanlike manner goes a long way to working with your inspector. This is one reason we spend a bit of time on the Code and other codes in our Electrical Safety Workshops, and also why it is part of the ETCP Electrical outline. Regards . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------ Mitch Hefter Office: Entertainment Technology, a Genlyte Company mhefter [at] genlytecontrols.com +1-214/ 647-7880 x 7967 http://www.etdimming.com :: http://www.vari-lite.com ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <3e8.f91f87.3184df52 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:25:06 EDT Subject: Class for civilians WAS Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... I've suggested to our local PAC that they offer a "So you're going to be onstage" seminar/class to folks who rent the space. Targeted at groups that are not using professional performers, it would cover basic stage safety (what to do when someone yells "heads!", pit dangers, tripping hazards, etc.) and stage "deportment" as my former voice teacher called it (being quiet in the wings, directional terminology, basics of how to work with a microphone). The thought behind this is - "civilians" make things more unsafe for all of us and if they knew easy things like "the mic won't pick you up when you're facing away from it" it would make the renters look more professional as well as making things easier and safer for the crew. Does anyone else do this? Thoughts? Kristi ------------------------------ Message-ID: <2566.64.28.63.12.1146324419.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Inspector woes - cable dressing on a grid? From: "Bill Nelson" > His complaint was that the stage lights were 'permanent' > (since they are part of an eventual rep plot, and this > portion won't move because each Sunday is pretty much the > same). I guess that's kinda true - these lights will usually > be in the same place. Can the lights be unplugged and moved? If they can, they are not permanent. It doesn't matter whether they actually get moved or not. On the other hand, the inspector could require fixed outlets - into which you plug the lights. That would be a good idea anyway - to minimize excess cable on the grid. Bill ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "chip.a.wood" Subject: RE: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:28:30 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Don't know how old your 18 month old is now, but somewhere around 2 -18 years old the child develops into a person with a mind of it's own and toddling across the stage one at a time gets boring. They get curious about the world around them rather than pleasing Papa and tend to get themselves into trouble. It's been like this for about 100000 years. I have been around several what could be called stagecraft kids and raised a few of my own and as a group are MUCH better behaved than the run of the mill, but still not perfect. Keep at least one eye on them and safety first. Chip > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Samuel > T. Fisher > Hey I had my 18 month old onstage with me helping me put orchestra shells > together. I put a pile of hardware on one end of the stage and assembled > the shells on the other. The time it took him to walk across the stage by > himself with one piece of hardware at a time was perfect for when I needed > that piece. I'm not saying every child should be left to run around stage > but they can be trained. ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <393.2658b96.3184e191 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:34:41 EDT Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... doomster [at] worldnet.att.net writes: << Will the person in the balcony stand up and shout "Amen" doom >> AMEN! (I was always a sucker for the cheap seats!) Kristi ------------------------------ Message-ID: <17826476.1146325829432.JavaMail.root [at] elwamui-mouette.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:50:29 -0400 (EDT) From: seanrmc [at] earthlink.net Reply-To: seanrmc [at] earthlink.net Subject: Re: Inspector woes - cable dressing on a grid? Mitch... Thanks for the reply. That is what I understood it to be, but hadn't ever really looked into it. Back to the code: Article 590. Does this mean there is supposed to be GFCI protection on all those extension cords used during load-in and strike? On the table saw/chop saw/etc that gets wheeled into the theatre for the load-in period? On the circuit powering the Genie? When we tie in a PD to supply power to all of the above tools? Or is this as ambiguous as it seems? Thanks again, this is interesting! --Sean Sean R. McCarthy seanrmc [at] earthlink.net -----Original Message----- >From: Mitch Hefter > >Also, Article 590 contains the following requirements: >590.6 Ground-Fault Protection for Personnel >Ground-fault protection for personnel for all temporary wiring >installations shall be provided to comply with 590.6(A) and 590.6(B). This >section shall apply only to temporary wiring installations used to supply >temporary power to equipment used by personnel during construction, >remodeling, maintenance, repair, or demolition of buildings, structures, >equipment, or similar activities. > >Handbook commentary (not an official interpretation, but often pulled from >the deliberations on the Code) states: "Due to the more severe >environmental conditions often encountered by personnel using temporary >wiring while performing activities such as construction, remodeling, >maintenance, repair, and demolition, there is generally an elevated >exposure to electrical shock or electrocution hazards." > >You certainly don't see many GFCIs in theatre. This should help with >showing that 590 doesn't normally apply to us (but may). > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:02:34 -0400 Subject: Re: designs on recent works From: John McKernon Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > You are hired to provide the mixes - including the recording mix - > assuming it is in your contract. And actually, that means that your employer probably holds the copyright, since you created the work as part of your work as an employee. - John ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003f01c66baf$a2dd51a0$6401a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" References: Subject: Re: designs on recent works Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:09:11 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- From: "CB" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: Re: designs on recent works >Keep in mind that I am hired by the guy who is hired to provide > services and gear, Does a Microsoft employee own the patent / copyright he creates while in the employ of MS? Variables notwithstanding. >...someone else is hired to create a recording of the event for sale, and > he asks me to provide him with a separate mix for the recording, Is your mix the SOLE mix for the recording? or part of their mix? I think that sucker should bring his own sound designer. You should have a contract in your workbox that instructs that the cover notes will include you as a sound designer and / or the guy should slip you AT LEAST a "C note" for all the time, equipment and trouble you (and the sound company) have saved his lazy butt. >but I may use if as a lever for > insisting that they orchestrate these recordings instead of having me make > them up at doors. a. THEY orchestrate meaning they supply all the equipment for the recording? b. they ORCHESTRATE meaning they should plan ahead to let you (or the boss) know that they will be requesting a feed and there should be appropriate compensation. The few live video shoots I've been part of have numerous mixes coming off monitor world. Is "he" using a FOH mix for the recording and wants a special mix from you? the bast___. >Am I within my rights to ask for a portion of every recording > sold? and I only provide the mixes. Will it cost you money in the long run because you are just too difficult to work with? Another ball of wax is: is it OK for that performance to be recorded and sold? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001201c66bb2$84ba7240$6400a8c0 [at] om.cox.net> From: "John Gibilisco" Cc: t8rtekguy [at] hotmail.com References: Subject: Re: Fat Frog 88 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:29:49 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Moe Conn" > Ok so wise list...I have a former student working in a Theatre with a Fat > Frog 88 board, Where the heck is the power switch and is it bad that they > never turn it off? You might try thr Frog forums. http://support.zero88.com/forum/faq.php Best, John Gibilisco Omaha Playhouse ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <417.1dbfb3.3184fee9 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:39:53 EDT Subject: Re: Orchestra Pit Safety In a message dated 29/04/06 01:32:20 GMT Daylight Time, stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com writes: > Well, Frank, with all due respect, it's been pointed out on more than one > occasion that your range of theatrical experience might just possibly be a > little too limited to serve as a reliable base for general conclusions. Maybe so. I don't actually go a lot to the theatre. On the other hand, I have visited at least eleven different opera houses in recent years, five in the UK and five in France, plus Bayreuth. Some have a net, and some not. At Bayreuth, for instance, the orchestra is under the stage, with only a narrow opening for the conductor. Before you throw back at me my comments about 'acoustical transparency', this theatre was designed and built like this, and it works very well. Wagner designed it to get a better orchestral blend. In general, opera houses have the pit open all the time, since there is always an orchestra. Perhaps this gives those who work on stage a better sense of its presence than when it is intermittent. Of those with nets, which is about half of them, they all look to me like tension grids, although I haven't been able to look closely. At the London Coliseum, the net appears to have auxiliary supports cantilevered out from under the stage, perhaps to minimise the sag, as the pit is quite shallow. Some of the longer period instruments, such as the theorbo, a king-size lute played in the same way as a lute, rise above the stage level. These have to be located in front of the net, which only covers less than half of the opening. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Laura McMeley" Subject: RE: Orchestra Pit Safety Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:53:34 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c66bb5$d67062e0$6600a8c0 [at] tdolighting01> In-Reply-To: The Dallas Opera uses a net over our pit during student matinees only. It is a black scrim intended to protect the orchestra from spit wads, pennies and other debris coming from the audience. A sad statement on our school children. I've never actually seen anything thrown, but apparently in years past this was a problem and the orchestra now requires it. The scrim has an opening for the conductor, whose head usually is above stage level and can have stretchers added to make extra room for taller instruments. I did see a stagehand fall into the pit with the scrim on and the stretching action slowed his fall to the point that he was not injured. There was no one in the pit at the time. In this case, I think the presence of the black scrim made the edge of the pit harder to see. Laura > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of > FrankWood95 [at] aol.com > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 12:40 PM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Re: Orchestra Pit Safety > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 29/04/06 01:32:20 GMT Daylight Time, > stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com writes: > > > Well, Frank, with all due respect, it's been pointed out on more than > one > > occasion that your range of theatrical experience might just possibly > be a > > little too limited to serve as a reliable base for general conclusions. > > Maybe so. I don't actually go a lot to the theatre. On the other hand, I > have > visited at least eleven different opera houses in recent years, five in > the > UK and five in France, plus Bayreuth. Some have a net, and some not. At > Bayreuth, for instance, the orchestra is under the stage, with only a > narrow opening > for the conductor. Before you throw back at me my comments about > 'acoustical > transparency', this theatre was designed and built like this, and it works > very > well. Wagner designed it to get a better orchestral blend. > > In general, opera houses have the pit open all the time, since there is > always an orchestra. Perhaps this gives those who work on stage a better > sense of > its presence than when it is intermittent. Of those with nets, which is > about > half of them, they all look to me like tension grids, although I haven't > been > able to look closely. At the London Coliseum, the net appears to have > auxiliary > supports cantilevered out from under the stage, perhaps to minimise the > sag, > as the pit is quite shallow. Some of the longer period instruments, such > as > the theorbo, a king-size lute played in the same way as a lute, rise above > the > stage level. These have to be located in front of the net, which only > covers > less than half of the opening. > > > Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <232.a0ac328.3185029a [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:55:38 EDT Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... In a message dated 29/04/06 01:43:15 GMT Daylight Time, paulschreiner42 [at] gmail.com writes: > > Children (toddlers and younger) especially the adult kind, should not be > > allowed on stage unless there's somebody to hold their hand. I'll say! I used to light the annual show for a local dance school. Part of this included the very youngest pupils showing off their classwork. I'm not good at children's ages, but let's settle for about 3' tall. One night we lost half a dozen or so into the cyclorama lighting pit. Of course, I hit the master blackout, brought up the house and working lights. Thankfully the blackout was done with contactors, which are a positive disconnect, it being our 1964 board. Nobody was hurt, as it's only a 2' drop, and when order had been restored by the class teachers, all of whom were in the wings, I restored things to normal, and we carried on with the show. But, for years after, the choreography was such that there was a row of larger, older, and more responsible dancers ringing the cyc pit. It was always a nuisance to me, because I never dared to rig shinbusters, much though I should have liked to for the second part of the show, which was always a truncated part of a major classical ballet. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Cc: chrisharris25 [at] earthlink.net ('chrisharris25') Subject: RE: Healthy skepticism vs. old wives' tales and so on... Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:00:32 -0600 Message-ID: <00d001c66bb6$cfae62d0$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: Toxicity. It will take some time to fill in all of the gaps of knowledge but I will try. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of chrisharris25 Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 8:05 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Healthy skepticism vs. old wives' tales and so on... For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Paul Shreiner wrote: "But I can't in good conscience allow a comment that welding galvanized steel is "toxic" go unchallenged *in an environment supposedly peopled by those who have a clue about science and healthy skepticism*." Wading into the deep end of the pool here and trying not to be personal about it! While looking at the trees, I think we're missing the forest. If zinc were the only thing in question here, maybe you'd have a point but I'm not so sure. And what else do we have wafting up from a weld...carbon monoxide, ozone, various nitrogen oxides.....metal fumes, metal fume fever, not toxic???? Depends on your definition I guess. The dictionary I have defines toxic in the terms of "Capable of causing INJURY or death, especially by chemical means; poisonous." It doesn't have to be a quick death to qualify as toxic. (Arsenic anyone?) My lungs know it's not something I should be breathing! I couldn't, in REALLY good conscience tell anyone that welding did NOT have a definitive level of toxicity. I've been young, dumb and stupid and not worn a respirator while welding. I'm older and wiser now. Just cause you welded and walked away today does not mean you didn't take some of that damage with you. If you don't believe that, then maybe you're working for a cigarette manufacturer. I think it is VERY important that we not minimize the possible damage that welding fumes can cause, in any amount. That may just be my point of view, but I hope not! Chris Harris www.sapsis-rigging.com ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Cc: chrisharris25 [at] earthlink.net ('chrisharris25') Subject: RE: Healthy skepticism vs. old wives' tales and so on... Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:00:32 -0600 Message-ID: <00da01c66bb6$d0875db0$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: I received a massive print out about the toxicity and welding from several Industrial Hygienists, Environmental Health and Safety Officers. Would that I cold encapsulate it, carefully, and send it out. Be patient. I shall think of some way, not having a scanner, et al. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of chrisharris25 Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 8:05 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Healthy skepticism vs. old wives' tales and so on... For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Paul Shreiner wrote: "But I can't in good conscience allow a comment that welding galvanized steel is "toxic" go unchallenged *in an environment supposedly peopled by those who have a clue about science and healthy skepticism*." Wading into the deep end of the pool here and trying not to be personal about it! While looking at the trees, I think we're missing the forest. If zinc were the only thing in question here, maybe you'd have a point but I'm not so sure. And what else do we have wafting up from a weld...carbon monoxide, ozone, various nitrogen oxides.....metal fumes, metal fume fever, not toxic???? Depends on your definition I guess. The dictionary I have defines toxic in the terms of "Capable of causing INJURY or death, especially by chemical means; poisonous." It doesn't have to be a quick death to qualify as toxic. (Arsenic anyone?) My lungs know it's not something I should be breathing! I couldn't, in REALLY good conscience tell anyone that welding did NOT have a definitive level of toxicity. I've been young, dumb and stupid and not worn a respirator while welding. I'm older and wiser now. Just cause you welded and walked away today does not mean you didn't take some of that damage with you. If you don't believe that, then maybe you're working for a cigarette manufacturer. I think it is VERY important that we not minimize the possible damage that welding fumes can cause, in any amount. That may just be my point of view, but I hope not! Chris Harris www.sapsis-rigging.com ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:00:33 -0600 Message-ID: <010a01c66bb6$eebb4cb0$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: 90% of my clients who call for representation are Plaintiffs. I make every effort not to distinguish from the two classes, and I do turn down cases that I believe are out of my field of expertise or that I believe, in my opinion, experience and judgment, have no merit or are frivolous. My consideration is always the person, as my work is to protect people, no matter whom. I might add, and Richard may back this up, the cases that I seem to have been on the losing side, seemed to me to be ones that I thought we could win for the client. The jury decided otherwise, and in four of those cases we were up against hordes of highly paid lawyers who provided an avalanche of materials, which I deemed not to the point. Obfuscations often wins out.And there are several cases, two that I recall, in which the client just decided to opt out because of the lengthy trail and cost factor and possible detrimental publicity. It happens. One case, so blatant that I could not stomach it, but the young attorney was adamant ...concerning a world known singer with connections to the lads at that white building in Washington, and Fellas, and NSC ... sent the head of the Secret Service to testify against me .... well, all bets were off. Pick up your marbles, go home. And the jury, well, they were very well dressed. Each case, each trail, all different. And I know this might comes as a surprise in the United States of America, people lie. Oops. The Cat is out of the bag. Yes, I was shocked, really, and someday if you want to know about that case .... talk to me on a phone that is not tapped. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jim Hyslop Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 8:49 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- RD wrote: > You mean my 366 law suits as expert witness may increase. Egads. Well, I was > on the losing side 6 times, and maybe the lawyer had a little to do with my > failure. Maybe. Maybe? Doom Out of curiosity, and if answering wouldn't violate any confidentiality agreements, who generally engages you, the plaintiff or the defendant? -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Class for civilians WAS Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:00:33 -0600 Message-ID: <010b01c66bb6$ef02dd00$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: Because in my universe, pictures are a million times more graphic that words, A small little card with specific safety precautions, passed out to them when you give the little training talk. Plus, a very large, colorful, graphic sign on the walls of the stage house, with very specific guidelines, not many but very specific ones. This action will also comply with Regulations and diminish the level of Liability. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of MissWisc [at] aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:25 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Class for civilians WAS Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- I've suggested to our local PAC that they offer a "So you're going to be onstage" seminar/class to folks who rent the space. Targeted at groups that are not using professional performers, it would cover basic stage safety (what to do when someone yells "heads!", pit dangers, tripping hazards, etc.) and stage "deportment" as my former voice teacher called it (being quiet in the wings, directional terminology, basics of how to work with a microphone). The thought behind this is - "civilians" make things more unsafe for all of us and if they knew easy things like "the mic won't pick you up when you're facing away from it" it would make the renters look more professional as well as making things easier and safer for the crew. Does anyone else do this? Thoughts? Kristi ------------------------------ Message-ID: <015b01c66bb8$39db36a0$e28aaa43 [at] DonTaco> From: "Don Taco" References: Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:10:35 -0700 > were up against hordes of highly paid lawyers who provided an avalanche of > materials, which I deemed not to the point. Obfuscations often wins out.> > Doom Remember the old adage: When the evidence is on your side, argue the evidence. When the law is on your side, argue the law. In the absence of either of those, pound the table. ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <241.a2871a1.31850612 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 14:10:26 EDT Subject: Re: Healthy skepticism vs. old wives' tales and so on... In a message dated 29/04/06 02:14:04 GMT Daylight Time, slitterst [at] ithaca.edu writes: > Now *I* feel old. When I got my first video game, at the leading edge of > the video game onslaught, we were told they were good for hand-eye > coordination. It wasn't until folks saw what it did to us "early > adopters" that video games became Instruments of Satan. So do I. I'm no good at video games, having met few. But I've been driving computers with cursors for a long time, in different applications. These days, if I want the cursor somewhere, it just seems to go there. An extra feedback circuit, somewhere. I just think the cursor into a location, and it goes there. It is no longer a conscious process. With my brain, if I analyse what is going on, I can see this. I 'want' the cursor somewhere, but the hand and arm responses are automatic now. Joysticks need a different set of automatics, which I haven't got. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <3c8.1a9586e.31850819 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 14:19:05 EDT Subject: Re: the wonderful world of Opera In a message dated 29/04/06 05:25:56 GMT Daylight Time, StevevETTrn [at] aol.com writes: > It is a sobering thought. Had one like that some years ago when I was in > academia. Realized that the incoming college freshmen were in kindergarten > > when I started working at the college. It is indeed. I started out as a schoolmaster at the age of 24. I am now 67, and it is something of a shock to realise that most of my more senior students will have retired. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 18:22:03 GMT Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... Message-Id: <20060429.112207.12721.279757 [at] webmail37.lax.untd.com> I can absolutely back up Doom on this one. As both a Theatrical Lawyer a= nd Temporary Judge, I have seen many travesties of justice occur. I have= never seen nor received anecdotal or empirical evidence that Doom was e= ver contributed to a miscarriage of justice. He merely expresses his lea= rned opinion that is based upon years of observation and accident evalua= tion, some of it occurring before my 25 years of hearing cases. Politics= and popularity definitely does sway juries. /s/ Richard 90% of my clients who call for representation are Plaintiffs. I make eve= ry effort not to distinguish from the two classes, and I do turn down ca= ses that I believe are out of my field of expertise or that I believe, i= n my opinion, experience and judgment, have no merit or are frivolous. M= y consideration is always the person, as my work is to protect people, n= o matter whom. = I might add, and Richard may back this up, the cases that I seem to have= been on the losing side, seemed to me to be ones that I thought we coul= d win for the client. The jury decided otherwise, and in four of those c= ases we were up against hordes of highly paid lawyers who provided an av= alanche of materials, which I deemed not to the point. Obfuscations ofte= n wins out.And there are several cases, two that I recall, in which the = client just decided to opt out because of the lengthy trail and cost fac= tor and possible detrimental publicity. It happens. = One case, so blatant that I could not stomach it, but the young attorney= was adamant ...concerning a world known singer with connections to the = lads at that white building in Washington, and Fellas, and NSC ... sent = the head of the Secret Service to testify against me .... well, all bets= were off. Pick up your marbles, go home. And the jury, well, they were = very well dressed. = Each case, each trail, all different. And I know this might comes as a surprise in the United States of America, people lie. Oops. The Cat is o= ut of the bag. Yes, I was shocked, really, and someday if you want to kn= ow about that case .... talk to me on a phone that is not tapped. = Doom = --------------------------------------------------- RD wrote: > You mean my 366 law suits as expert witness may increase. Egads. Well,= I was on the losing side 6 times, and maybe the lawyer had a little to = do with my failure. Maybe. Maybe? Doom = Out of curiosity, and if answering wouldn't violate any confidentiality = agreements, who generally engages you, the plaintiff or the defendant? Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 18:25:14 GMT Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... Message-Id: <20060429.112608.12721.279762 [at] webmail37.lax.untd.com> Pacino has turned Table Pounding into an art, but it doesn't sway me. /s/ Richard Remember the old adage: When the evidence is on your side, argue the= evidence. When the law is on your side, argue the law. In the absence= of either of those, pound the table. ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Orchestra Pit Safety Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:30:22 -0600 Message-ID: <011201c66bba$faca7860$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: Frank: Doom here. I perhaps am not the person to say this, but from reading your emails I certainly would want you in my corner most of the time. A depth of knowledge, experience, and enough moxie to stymie most of us. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:40 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Orchestra Pit Safety For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 29/04/06 01:32:20 GMT Daylight Time, stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com writes: > Well, Frank, with all due respect, it's been pointed out on more than one > occasion that your range of theatrical experience might just possibly be a > little too limited to serve as a reliable base for general conclusions. Maybe so. I don't actually go a lot to the theatre. On the other hand, I have visited at least eleven different opera houses in recent years, five in the UK and five in France, plus Bayreuth. Some have a net, and some not. At Bayreuth, for instance, the orchestra is under the stage, with only a narrow opening for the conductor. Before you throw back at me my comments about 'acoustical transparency', this theatre was designed and built like this, and it works very well. Wagner designed it to get a better orchestral blend. In general, opera houses have the pit open all the time, since there is always an orchestra. Perhaps this gives those who work on stage a better sense of its presence than when it is intermittent. Of those with nets, which is about half of them, they all look to me like tension grids, although I haven't been able to look closely. At the London Coliseum, the net appears to have auxiliary supports cantilevered out from under the stage, perhaps to minimise the sag, as the pit is quite shallow. Some of the longer period instruments, such as the theorbo, a king-size lute played in the same way as a lute, rise above the stage level. These have to be located in front of the net, which only covers less than half of the opening. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: the wonderful world of Opera Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:39:52 -0600 Message-ID: <012b01c66bbc$4e08c8a0$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: Frank, I find the same shocking experience. Having started work as a professional in theater in 1943, after several years acting in the movies and tap dancing on the stage, I find that some of my students from the late forties sally forth once in a while and call and send notes. Very sobering. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 12:19 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: the wonderful world of Opera For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 29/04/06 05:25:56 GMT Daylight Time, StevevETTrn [at] aol.com writes: > It is a sobering thought. Had one like that some years ago when I was in > academia. Realized that the incoming college freshmen were in kindergarten > > when I started working at the college. It is indeed. I started out as a schoolmaster at the age of 24. I am now 67, and it is something of a shock to realise that most of my more senior students will have retired. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:39:52 -0600 Message-ID: <012c01c66bbc$4e46bc00$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: Richard, I will admit to having done that several times in some rather tight situations, and seemed to have won out ... however, I always appeal to the Judges, as I did in South Africa and Long Beach, and Akron. It always seems to get some attention, and I pray it did not sway the citizens in the box. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of ladesigners [at] juno.com Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 12:25 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Pacino has turned Table Pounding into an art, but it doesn't sway me. /s/ Richard Remember the old adage: When the evidence is on your side, argue the evidence. When the law is on your side, argue the law. In the absence of either of those, pound the table. ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:46:33 -0600 Message-ID: <013801c66bbd$3eccd4c0$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: I shall demur to my learned colleagues in this enjoinder. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Don Taco Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 12:11 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- > were up against hordes of highly paid lawyers who provided an avalanche of > materials, which I deemed not to the point. Obfuscations often wins out.> > Doom Remember the old adage: When the evidence is on your side, argue the evidence. When the law is on your side, argue the law. In the absence of either of those, pound the table. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1550605.1146338723734.JavaMail.root [at] fed1wml04.mgt.cox.net> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:25:23 -0700 From: Subject: RE: Rack for Flying Advice >Was that before or after 9/11? After. While the TSA can't seem to find their combined asses with both hands, a flashlight, and a copy of Gray's Anatomy, the reason that they want you at the airport two hours in advance is that it takes an hour and a half to explain that the camera that you are carrying, along with the beta-deck, are no more dangerous than the camcorder that Joe Lunchbag is carrying on his vacation. Just vastly more delicate and expensive. True, they'll be suspicious. Use small words, speak slowly and clearly, and smile real friendly-like and you can get anything - that isn't specifically noted as not-to-be-carried and isn't obviously dangerous - onto the aircraft. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <27660428.1146339367723.JavaMail.root [at] fed1wml04.mgt.cox.net> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:36:07 -0700 From: Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... >I saw a news item tonight, about African orphans. Who knows what they might >be able to achieve, given the chance. You are confusing 'stupid' and 'ignorant'. Ignorance is curable, stupidity is fatal.If only it were fatal for the stpid person, not those proximal to the stupid person, it's be a short-lived problem. This is why awards are given to those whose stupidity takes themselves out of the gene pool. (Darwin Awards) ------------------------------ Message-ID: <12498826.1146339814220.JavaMail.root [at] fed1wml04.mgt.cox.net> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:43:34 -0700 From: Subject: Missing Digests Thanks all, I've checked my spam iltering, and still can't figure out what went wrong, and I missed 787 and 788 (although, I did find them in the archives, thanks Noah!) I'll keep an eye out and see if I can figure out what the heck is happening. Oh, and my apologies. I wasn't ignoring the advice to check the archives again, it was just coming in digest's that I wasn't getting. Thanks again to everyone that sent me copies. ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <3ef.e6b63f.318541fc [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 18:26:04 EDT Subject: Re: Orchestra Pit Safety In a message dated 29/04/06 18:54:18 GMT Daylight Time, LMcMeley [at] msn.com writes: > I did see a > stagehand fall into the pit with the scrim on and the stretching action > slowed his fall to the point that he was not injured. There was no one in > the pit at the time. In this case, I think the presence of the black scrim > made the edge of the pit harder to see. Could be. In performance, there are usually the orchestra desk lights to give you a clue. The other side of the coin is that anything you could believe to be a surface, but that won't bear a load, is very dangerous. I shout at stagehands who leave sheets of masonite sticking unsupported over the edge of the stage while they go to find a hammer, or whatever. While it's not a big fall in our house, about a foot, it will decant you into the front row of seats, which makes for an unfriendly landing. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <08e101c66bdd$1dd48810$6501a8c0 [at] ALFOFFICE> Reply-To: "Alf Sauve" From: "Alf Sauve" References: Subject: Re: Cable paths... Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 18:32:13 -0400 Thanks for all the discussion on cable paths. At the first of the week it was just a ho-hum discussion - in my mind. But Friday, I was given notice that the admin pastor is hot-to-trot on refurb of the fellowship hall. Tuesday morning, the sound guy and I will plead our case and see how big the budget is. We both have sound, lighting and drape configurations in our back pocket waiting for this opportunity. We've submitted them last year, but nobody seems to remember them or where they might have gotten to. Anyway, this discussion has given me a whole bunch of other things to include. A "cable path" (duh) for starters. And I had forgotten about intercoms, until now. Thanks everyone. Alf Mt Bethel UMC ----- Original Message ----- From: "CB" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 9:32 PM Subject: Re: Cable paths... > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >>Most small houses seem to have only left, right, center and maybe BOH >>fill. That takes up the 4 returns. If there are musiscians that want >>monitors, then that would eat up more returns. > > Or if they want two mixes. What about com? What if you want A *and* B > com? Sound Private Line? Crotch fills? FX speakers? Four returns are > just fine if you always paint-by-numbers and stay within the lines. > Anything else and you start to eat into sends and costs a group of > turnarounds. > >>The return shortage risk is why I suggested having powered speakers >>available. You can use the regular send channels for those. > > Sends to amps are send to amps. It doesn't matter if the amps are in the > speakers or in a rack. The only difference between having 'em in the rack > and in the air is you (usually) don't have to fly ampracks, and you only > have to send one cable to a 'conventional' box. > Chris "Chris" Babbie > Location Sound > MON AZ > > Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates > negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... > ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <2c6.73bd635.318546aa [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 18:46:02 EDT Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... In a message dated 29/04/06 19:02:01 GMT Daylight Time, doomster [at] worldnet.att.net writes: > One case, so blatant that I could not stomach it, but the young attorney was > adamant ...concerning a world known singer with connections to the lads at > that white building in Washington, and Fellas, and NSC ... sent the head of > the Secret Service to testify against me .... well, all bets were off. Pick > up your marbles, go home. And the jury, well, they were very well dressed. There are things that I do not understand about the US legal system. In the UK, for any given courthouse, enough jurors, and a slight surplus, are selected from the electoral register to handle all the cases that are to be presented, at random. I've been there. From this great raft of potential jurors, juries of 12 are allocated, again at random, to hear individual cases, again at random. Formally, at least, there is no way you can pack a jury. Practically, I am less certain. I think that the security services have ways to do this. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <243.a1d97ca.31854a3e [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:01:18 EDT Subject: Re: Orchestra Pit Safety In a message dated 29/04/06 19:31:00 GMT Daylight Time, doomster [at] worldnet.att.net writes: > Frank: Doom here. I perhaps am not the person to say this, but from reading > your emails I certainly would want you in my corner most of the time. A > depth of knowledge, experience, and enough moxie to stymie most of us. I thank you for the compliment, and value it. Should you ever come to London, I should be very pleased to meet you. I think that we oldies have a lot to contribute. We have all sen silly things done, and survived. We have probably done some ourselves, and learned from them. To the point of another thread, we have learned from our experience. I think that stupidity does not allow that. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4453F78B.2020408 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:32:27 -0400 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... References: In-Reply-To: psyd [at] cox.net wrote: > You are confusing 'stupid' and 'ignorant'. Ignorance is curable, > stupidity is fatal.If only it were fatal for the stpid person, not > those proximal to the stupid person, it's be a short-lived problem. > This is why awards are given to those whose stupidity takes > themselves out of the gene pool. (Darwin Awards) Stupidity's not always fatal (although the vast majority do seem to be). There was at least one recent one Darwin Award winner who survived his folly. -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4453F8F3.4060405 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:38:27 -0400 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... References: In-Reply-To: RD wrote: > 90% of my clients who call for representation are Plaintiffs. I suspected as much. I can see defendants calling you in when they know they've taken every reasonable precaution. > I make every > effort not to distinguish from the two classes From what I've read on this list, I would not expect anything else from you. > of the bag. Yes, I was shocked, really, and someday if you want to know > about that case .... talk to me on a phone that is not tapped. Sounds like you could provide several evenings' worth of interesting, amusing and shocking anecdotes. -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4453F9F3.5010200 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:42:43 -0400 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... References: In-Reply-To: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > There are things that I do not understand about the US legal system. > In the UK, for any given courthouse, enough jurors, and a slight > surplus, are selected from the electoral register to handle all the > cases that are to be presented, at random. I've been there. From this > great raft of potential jurors, juries of 12 are allocated, again at > random, to hear individual cases, again at random. Formally, at > least, there is no way you can pack a jury. Practically, I am less > certain. I think that the security services have ways to do this. In Canada, and I believe in the U.S. as well, either side may reject a juror for whatever reasons they see fit. So, all the defendant's lawyers have to do is reject anyone who isn't wearing a business suit worth at least $1,000. -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 01:18:41 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: Class for civilians WAS Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... References:

In-Reply-To: In message , RD writes >Because in my universe, pictures are a million times more graphic that >words, A small little card with specific safety precautions, passed out >to them when you give the little training talk. Plus, a very large, >colorful, graphic sign on the walls of the stage house, with very >specific guidelines, not many but very specific ones. This action will >also comply with Regulations and diminish the level of Liability. Doom This is the sort of situation where you could give a very basic talk about stage safety to people and then issue them with a form they have to sign stating that they have been made aware of the dangers. Voila. Liability shifted onto them. The term "site induction" comes to mind. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Class for civilians WAS Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:29:07 -0600 Message-ID: <005a01c66bf5$7c05c3f0$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: You have a way with words Clive. Perhaps I could learn a great deal from you. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Clive Mitchell Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:19 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Class for civilians WAS Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- In message , RD writes >Because in my universe, pictures are a million times more graphic that >words, A small little card with specific safety precautions, passed out >to them when you give the little training talk. Plus, a very large, >colorful, graphic sign on the walls of the stage house, with very >specific guidelines, not many but very specific ones. This action will >also comply with Regulations and diminish the level of Liability. Doom This is the sort of situation where you could give a very basic talk about stage safety to people and then issue them with a form they have to sign stating that they have been made aware of the dangers. Voila. Liability shifted onto them. The term "site induction" comes to mind. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001801c66bf6$734338f0$0300a8c0 [at] lpt> From: References: Subject: Re: Mayor's Wife Falls into Orchestra Pit Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 20:36:05 -0500 Organization: Minnesota Ballet Peter wrote: "A pit lift that is only 5 feet below stage level seems to me to not be = low enough to accommodate musicians (or others) without obstructing = sightlines. And if the lift was "unoccupied", why was it down to start with? Maybe the folks on the list who said they witnessed the incident can clarify." I'm not sure if anyone has responded to you yet on this. I haven't read digest #789 yet. To answer your question, at least from my point of view, in my theater the pit in the full up position (equal to the stage) blocks the view of the first couple of rows. (for ballet, seeing the feet is important) Most of the time I take the pit down to house level or slightly below. This gives a cleaner edge to the stage. That depth would be about 5 to 8 feet. Kenneth Pogin ------------------------------ Subject: Sobering Thought Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 21:43:36 -0400 Message-ID: From: In most cases, when I started here, it would be five years before my fall freshlings were even conceived let alone start kindergarten. Sigh. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of StevevETTrn [at] aol.com Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 12:25 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: the wonderful world of Opera For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- pschreiner writes: > and I just realized that come the fall I'll be teaching kids who=20 > weren't even born when I started college It is a sobering thought. Had one like that some years ago when I was in academia. Realized that the incoming college freshmen were in kindergarten when I started working at the college. SteveV Orlando, FL =20 ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 02:47:05 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: Class for civilians WAS Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... References:

In-Reply-To: In message , RD writes >You have a way with words Clive. Perhaps I could learn a great deal >from you. Doom Here in the UK construction industry we have to attend a site induction on every contract we work on before we are allowed on the site. It's usually a quick run through of the fire procedure, assembly point and site specific hazards. When you've done the induction you sign a form and get a sticker for your hard hat. In the theatre installation side we tend to move between sites frequently so our hats end up covered with these stickers. One of the current jobs I'm doing has a very strict entry/exit procedure for the site. You have to go through a floor to ceiling turnstile controlled from a computerised face recognition system. You type in your code and the unit checks your face against it's database to determine whether you get access or not. The same company operates a strict glove and eyeshield policy and dislikes contractors using step ladders. It all makes life much harder than it need be. Any jobs going in Canada, New Zealand or Australia? :) -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060429193202.owwc844g00oo8okg [at] www.email.arizona.edu> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:32:02 -0700 From: Mark O'Brien Subject: Re: Class for civilians WAS Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... References:

In-Reply-To: Quoting Clive Mitchell : > Any jobs going in Canada, New Zealand or Australia? :) Don't want to work here? :-) Mark-O Mark O'Brien Opera Technical Director University of Arizona, School of Music 520-621-7025 520-591-1803 Mobile http://www.myspace.com/marko66 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20060429234957.037dfd00 [at] pop.lightlink.com> Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:52:28 -0400 From: John Bracewell Subject: Re: Sobering Thought In-Reply-To: Steve Rees writes: >In most cases, when I started here, it would be five years before my >fall freshlings were even conceived let alone start kindergarten. Sigh. in response to others who recalled that they had had strange feelings when they realized that they were teaching people who weren't even born when they started college. Consider how strange it is when you realize that you are teaching the children of children you taught in college! -- JLB ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001201c66c0a$567f1680$6401a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" Cc: doomster [at] worldnet.att.net References: Subject: Re: Healthy skepticism vs. old wives' tales and so on... Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 21:58:27 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- From: "RD" > > I received a massive print out about the toxicity and welding from several > Industrial Hygienists, Environmental Health and Safety Officers. Would that > I cold encapsulate it, carefully, and send it out. Be patient. I shall think > of some way, not having a scanner, et al. Doom > I would be interested in that brief. unless others are so interested, you may send it to me off list. At your leisure, Rob't ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Sobering Thought Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 20:57:37 -0700 Message-ID: <555928311F8B2943B65FC7197942C3B70538C246 [at] es1.bsdnet.wednet.edu> From: "Storms, Randy" The year my father retired from teaching, he had the grandchild of one = of his first students in his class. :-0 -- r. Randy Storms rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu -----Original Message----- --------------------------------------------------- Steve Rees writes: >In most cases, when I started here, it would be five years before my >fall freshlings were even conceived let alone start kindergarten. = Sigh. in response to others who recalled that they had had strange feelings = when=20 they realized that they were teaching people who weren't even born when=20 they started college. Consider how strange it is when you realize that you are teaching the=20 children of children you taught in college! -- JLB=20 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002301c66c0c$550e84a0$6401a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" References: Subject: Re: the wonderful world of Opera Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 22:12:44 -0600 I will know 60 seconds beforehand that I am retiring. when my left arm goes numb and I grab my chest, It's a joke that nobody ever laughs at. Because most of the people I work with see no humor in it. but in it's sick way it is true in it's honesty. Then, I also say: I retired twenty five years ago, because my work is not a job, it is a true joy. Helping Make Magic! Rob't ----- Original Message ----- From: > > It is indeed. I started out as a schoolmaster at the age of 24. I am now 67, > and it is something of a shock to realise that most of my more senior students > will have retired. > > > Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <44543A75.5060108 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 00:17:57 -0400 From: Dale Farmer Organization: I'm working on that.... Subject: Re: MAYOR'S WIFE FALLS INTO ORCHESTRA PIT... References:

In-Reply-To: Jim Hyslop wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: >> There are things that I do not understand about the US legal system. >> In the UK, for any given courthouse, enough jurors, and a slight >> surplus, are selected from the electoral register to handle all the >> cases that are to be presented, at random. I've been there. From this >> great raft of potential jurors, juries of 12 are allocated, again at >> random, to hear individual cases, again at random. Formally, at >> least, there is no way you can pack a jury. Practically, I am less >> certain. I think that the security services have ways to do this. > > In Canada, and I believe in the U.S. as well, either side may reject a > juror for whatever reasons they see fit. So, all the defendant's lawyers > have to do is reject anyone who isn't wearing a business suit worth at > least $1,000. > It's a little more complex than that in the US. And the rules are different depending on the particular court system you are in, and whatever administrative rules the senior judge has put into effect for the court district, and the whims of the actual presiding judge in the courtroom. Generally the lawyers on each side can reject without penalty any juror who indicates a bias in the case during jury selection. What this bias may be is basically whatever they can persuade the presiding judge is bias. Each side can further reject a finite number of potential jurors for no reason at all. For a controversial case, that has received extensive pretrial news coverage, finding enough jurors that pass this gauntlet can be very difficult. I was called for jury duty several years ago, and my luck was to be on the day they were selecting the jury for the murder trial of the british au-pair here in Boston. What a zoo it was that day. There were a couple hundred people called that day, I think they actually selected three or four. I never even got called up to be questioned. I was still waiting my turn when quitting time rolled around, and they sent the rest of us home, having satisfied our obligation. --Dale ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #790 *****************************