Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 29981770; Sat, 06 May 2006 03:01:56 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.6 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL,BAYES_00, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on localhost X-Spam-Level: X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #796 Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 03:00:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #796 1. Re: Safety Frames/Lighting Accessories by "Andrew Nikel" 2. Re: Bluetooth by "Jim at TheatreWireless.com" 3. Re: Bluetooth by Bruce Purdy 4. Re: One Material by 5. Re: One Material by Bruce Purdy 6. Re: odd vehicles (OT except for LRLR) by "Tony Miller" 7. Re: Sketch Up by Steve Larson 8. Re: One Material by Ford Sellers 9. Re: Sketch Up by Herrick Goldman 10. Re: Sketch Up by Jerry Durand 11. Re: Wood Sketching by Steve Larson 12. Re: Wood Sketching by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 13. Re: Wood Sketching by "Jon Ares" 14. Re: Wood Sketching by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 15. Re: interference on Clear-com (was Bluetooth) by Brian Aldous 16. Re: Sketch Up by "Ken Romaine" 17. Re: Wood Sketching by "Ken Romaine" 18. Re: interference on Clear-com (was Bluetooth) by Jerry Durand 19. Re: Bluetooth by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 20. Re: Wood Sketching by Herrick Goldman 21. Re: Wood Sketching by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 22. Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain by "B.H. Ackler" 23. Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain by "Delbert Hall" 24. Re: Sketch Up by "Chris Rovers" 25. Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 26. Re: Sketch Up by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 27. Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain by Clive Mitchell 28. Re: Wood Sketching by Clive Mitchell 29. Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain by "Ben Peoples" 30. appropriate metals by Jerry Durand 31. Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain by Clive Mitchell 32. Re: appropriate metals by Clive Mitchell 33. Re: appropriate metals by Jerry Durand 34. Re: appropriate metals by "Bill Nelson" 35. Re: appropriate metals by "Bill Nelson" 36. Re: appropriate metals by Jerry Durand 37. Re: appropriate metals by "Bill Nelson" 38. Re: appropriate metals by Jerry Durand 39. Re: appropriate metals by Clive Mitchell 40. Re: appropriate metals by Jerry Durand 41. Re: Sketch Up by "Jon Ares" 42. Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain by Dale Farmer 43. Re: Sketch Up by "Chris Rovers" 44. Re: Sketch Up by "Chris Rovers" 45. Re: Sketch Up by "Jon Ares" 46. Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain by "Bill Nelson" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Nikel" Cc: johngib [at] cox.net Subject: Re: Safety Frames/Lighting Accessories Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 07:32:42 -0400 Message-ID: Dear John - We manufacture our Mainframes - lightweight, flameproof, black fiberboard color frames in a number of sizes. They can be purchased through any City Theatrical dealer, the list of which you can view at the CTI Dealers tab on our website. Best, Andrew Andrew Nikel - Sales Manager City Theatrical, Inc. 752 East 133rd Street, Bronx, NY 10454 Voice: 718-292-7932 x23, Fax: 718-292-7482 email: anikel [at] citytheatrical.com web: www.citytheatrical.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gibilisco" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 12:59 AM Subject: Safety Frames/Lighting Accessories > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Anyone have a source to supply flame resistant, fiberboard color frames? > > Best, > > John G > Omaha Playhouse > ------------------------------ From: "Jim at TheatreWireless.com" Subject: RE: Bluetooth Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 07:45:20 -0400 Message-ID: <037701c67039$630e5bd0$7f9bfea9 [at] p3m866> In-Reply-To: Since your intercom is wired analog, you may be able to reduce or eliminate audible interference with some simple filtering. The wiring of the intercom is acting as an antenna. A simple capacitor will stop rf from making it into an intercom amplifier, possibly allowing you to turn a lot of stuff back on. Can you contact the manufacturer of the intercom for suggestions? Is it brandname Clearcom or some other company? Jim www.theatrewireless.com > It played over an older wired analog clearcom. > > I must say that I do get more noise these days. We spend a > good amount of time finding the offending sources - or not. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 08:20:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Bluetooth From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > Since your intercom is wired analog, you may be able to reduce or eliminate > audible interference with some simple filtering. The wiring of the intercom > is acting as an antenna. We have a wired intercom system as well (Telex headsets, what looks like a home made power supply). I've noticed that I pick up a lot of interference noise if get my ear too close to a trouper or certain electrical boxes. It would appear that the coil in the earpiece is picking up inductance from other power sources. To be honest, I'm not sure whether the noise is going out over the system or if it's just in my own headset, but it may not be just the wiring that acts as an antenna. Perhaps the headsets themselves can receive EMI. Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000201c6703e$ffde9ba0$0300a8c0 [at] lpt> From: References: Subject: Re: One Material Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 07:25:29 -0500 Organization: Minnesota Ballet Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > We bought enough of it and made out own 20'h x > 40'w cyc for only $50! > Keep an eye on any black material that might pop up there too. I just made a > 60' long border for under $30. It's great for a touring show to have their > own light weight blacks to plug any sightline holes. I love a bargain basement approach in some cases, but is the fabric flame retardant? I doubt it. Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 13:55:24 +0100 From: "Tony Miller" Subject: Re: odd vehicles (OT except for LRLR) In-Reply-To: References: This weekend in London a French theatre company called Royal De Luxe is performing a piece of street theatre called "The Sultans Elephant" which has a 42 ton prop elephant. Now you are talking weird vehicles. A photo of it is at I see if I can find some more after the show. Cheers Tony Miller. On 04/05/06, Jacqueline Haney Kidwell wrote: > > http://tinyurl.com/jdbw7 or > http://www.impactlab.com/modules.php?name=3DNews&file=3Darticle&sid=3D807= 7&mode=3D&order=3D0&thold=3D0 > > check out #4 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 09:48:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Sketch Up From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: If we're going down this road, please change the road signs in "subject" steve > From: "Don Taco" > Reply-To: "Stagecraft" > Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 16:39:47 -0700 > To: "Stagecraft" > Subject: Re: Sketch Up > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >> Fair enough. I think that you have more strongly demarcated jobs, whether >> by >> custom or by IATSE. In a word, job definitions. As I see your way, as LD, >> I >> sit in the house with the director, and if he is not happy with something, >> I >> call in the electrics crew to do what I think is neded to solve the >> problem. >> This may mean getting out a cherry-picker, or flying in a bar. It's a way >> to >> work. That's the way I see most of you working. >> >> This is not my way. >> >> >> Frank Wood >> > > Well, not one word of this describes the situation at any of the four > theatres I worked at so far this year. So, 0 for 4, so far. > ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20060505101156.034729c8 [at] postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 10:12:39 -0400 From: Ford Sellers Subject: Re: One Material In-Reply-To: References:

Ya know, they make a spray for that..... > I love a bargain basement approach in some cases, but is the fabric >flame retardant? I doubt it. > >Bruce >-- >Bruce Purdy >Technical Director >Smith Opera House ************************ Ford H Sellers Master Electrician Cornell University Schwartz Center for the Performing Arts 430 College Avenue Ithaca NY, 14850 (607) 254-2736 office (607) 254-2733 fax ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 11:08:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Sketch Up From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Hear! hear! I was just asked to do some 3d modeling yesterday. I Said to myself. "Hey there's been a lot of chatter about sketch up". I should go read this thread. So I sorted by subject and began to read. When what to my surprise Frank had hijacked the damn thing to complain about how complicated the world has become and how things just ain't the way they used to be. Fortunately a few of you had snuck in and posted useful comments on the actual topic. So I have indeed learned what I wanted to. Sadly I had to slog thru the mire of Woodisms. -H On 5/5/06 9:48 AM, "Steve Larson" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > If we're going down this road, please change > the road signs in "subject" > > steve > >> From: "Don Taco" >> Reply-To: "Stagecraft" >> Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 16:39:47 -0700 >> To: "Stagecraft" >> Subject: Re: Sketch Up >> >> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >>> Fair enough. I think that you have more strongly demarcated jobs, whether >>> by >>> custom or by IATSE. In a word, job definitions. As I see your way, as LD, >>> I >>> sit in the house with the director, and if he is not happy with something, >>> I >>> call in the electrics crew to do what I think is neded to solve the >>> problem. >>> This may mean getting out a cherry-picker, or flying in a bar. It's a way >>> to >>> work. That's the way I see most of you working. >>> >>> This is not my way. >>> >>> >>> Frank Wood >>> >> >> Well, not one word of this describes the situation at any of the four >> theatres I worked at so far this year. So, 0 for 4, so far. >> > > -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 08:08:57 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Sketch Up In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060505080832.01f9b218 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 08:08 AM 5/5/2006, you wrote: >Sadly I had to slog thru the mire of Woodisms. Can't sketch the trees because of the Woods? -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 11:30:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Wood Sketching From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Very good > From: Jerry Durand > Reply-To: "Stagecraft" > Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 08:08:57 -0700 > To: "Stagecraft" > Subject: Re: Sketch Up > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > At 08:08 AM 5/5/2006, you wrote: > >> Sadly I had to slog thru the mire of Woodisms. > > > Can't sketch the trees because of the Woods? > > > -- > Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com > 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA > tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 > Skype: jerrydurand > > ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Wood Sketching Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 11:44:32 -0400 Message-ID: <014b01c6705a$ce22c2f0$6601a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > > Can't sketch the trees because of the Woods? OK, how many much longer will we be subjected to these Wood cuts? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000501c6705b$297f47e0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Wood Sketching Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 08:47:06 -0700 >> > Can't sketch the trees because of the Woods? > > OK, how many much longer will we be subjected to these Wood cuts? I'm getting board with this thread. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Wood Sketching Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 11:50:23 -0400 Message-ID: <014c01c6705b$9f39fbb0$6601a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > I'm getting board with this thread. If it weren't about Frank, you Wood-en be. ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <6668c91bd6345593d4d28db7a0e4ed4f [at] tany.com> From: Brian Aldous Subject: Re: interference on Clear-com (was Bluetooth) Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 12:03:27 -0400 On May 5, 2006, at 6:00 AM, Stagecraft wrote: > > This is turning into an interesting thread for me. > > I have been trying to find that tech who originally > caused my RF -- to find out what phone she had. If I > had to guess I would guess that it must have been a > razor. Our noise (as I rememeber it) was an irregular > series of obnoxious blasts. Kind of like a gutteral > sound you can make with your throat, but higher > broader in spectrum. > > It played over an older wired analog clearcom. > Interesting. On top of the all the old stuff, now cell phones. We were used to hearing radio cabs and police (the older Theatre Row theatres suffered particularly from Port Authority police). I teched 25 different dance pieces last week, and in the process we found that, no matter what sort of phone people had (ok, the sample was 3), those with Cingular as provider cause a horrible, rip-headset-off buzz if they ring within 2 or 3 feet of a beltpack. But only while ringing. Other providers did not seem to cause the same problem. So I turned off my phone, which speeded the tech up... BA Brian Aldous Lighting Design brian [at] tany.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 12:06:55 -0400 From: "Ken Romaine" Subject: Re: Sketch Up In-Reply-To: References:

Once again proving the old adage, "Don't read Stagecraft posts with a full mouth". -- Ken Romaine Business Development Manager Barco Media & Entertainment The opinions expressed here are mine - all mine - no matter how much I want to impose them on the rest of the world. > At 08:08 AM 5/5/2006, Herrick wrote: > > >Sadly I had to slog thru the mire of Woodisms. > > Later, Jerry added: > Can't sketch the trees because of the Woods? > ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 12:09:11 -0400 From: "Ken Romaine" Cc: stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com Subject: Re: Wood Sketching In-Reply-To: References:

> > I'm getting board with this thread. > > If it weren't about Frank, you Wood-en be. > "Wood I! Wood I!" "Hook nose! Hook nose!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 09:12:58 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: interference on Clear-com (was Bluetooth) In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060505090939.01f3ec10 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 09:03 AM 5/5/2006, you wrote: >On top of the all the old stuff, now cell phones. A sensitive data collection device I'm working on really locks in on to GSM cell phones. About 4.6mS per pulse. I'm having to add extra code to look for the regular pattern and ignore it. I also just saw an article about newer camera modules for cell phones. It seems the normal ones emit just the right interference to make your phone drop any call it's on. So, the cell phone is interfering with itself. :) Glad I don't design those things, I like a challenge, but that seems a bit much. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <260.aaa8036.318cdea8 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 13:00:24 EDT Subject: Re: Bluetooth In a message dated 05/05/06 12:45:58 GMT Daylight Time, stagecraft [at] theatrewireless.com writes: > Since your intercom is wired analog, you may be able to reduce or eliminate > audible interference with some simple filtering. The wiring of the intercom > is acting as an antenna. A simple capacitor will stop rf from making it > into an intercom amplifier, possibly allowing you to turn a lot of stuff > back on. It probably needs a bit more than that to be really effective. Ferrite beads will provide an inductive element to the filtering. The jackpot answer, for a balanced input, is a small bi-filar inductor and two capacitors. Proper attention to earthing is also rewarding. Some years ago, I designed and installed our IR deaf-aid system. This lives up among the lighting equipment, and because I tried to design it to be bullet-proof, it has never had any RFI problems. Each mic has its own head amplifier, with a balanced input and the RF filter I described above. The amplifiers have enormous headroom, sending at 2V RMS, but capable of sending at 40V peak, in a pseudo-balanced configuration. The signals from the four mics are combuned in a wholly passive, transformer balanced mixer, and fed to the Sennheiser box. Overkill, maybe. But the only problem we have had was when some clumsy clown cut through one of the cables during a re-fit. You can see why I had a reputation for over-engineering, though. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 13:10:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Wood Sketching From: Herrick Goldman Cc: stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Hare Lip! On 5/5/06 12:09 PM, "Ken Romaine" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >>> I'm getting board with this thread. >> >> If it weren't about Frank, you Wood-en be. >> > > "Wood I! Wood I!" > > > "Hook nose! Hook nose!" > -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <403.1115437.318ce202 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 13:14:42 EDT Subject: Re: Wood Sketching In a message dated 05/05/06 16:45:11 GMT Daylight Time, stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com writes: > OK, how many much longer will we be subjected to these Wood cuts? According to Holy Writ, three years. Personally, I hope much longer. I see that a South American woman has a claim to be 128, so don't hold your breath. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20270727.1146861304356.JavaMail.root [at] elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 13:35:03 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: "B.H. Ackler" Reply-To: "B.H. Ackler" Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain > Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 10:49:35 -0400 > Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain > From: John McKernon > >> This might be a silly question, but has anyone thought of making lead >> tapes for curtains but with some other metal? Steel? Pig iron? It >> might be a touch more expensive, but it'd still be a lot quieter than >> chain. > > They use lead because on because it's heavier and doesn't rust, so for > things like Austrian drapes it's the best solution. For most other > applications chain is preferable. > > - John Actually, if you really want "weight/density" and a much higher toxicity try Depleted Uranium, at twice the density of lead, but the long-term exposure is a bit tough. You can buy it by the ton in cold-roll ingots. Bryan H. Ackler Portland, Oregon ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 16:47:17 -0400 From: "Delbert Hall" Cc: backler [at] ix.netcom.com (B.H. Ackler) Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain In-Reply-To: References: Gold is very heavy and not toxic. -Delbert On 5/5/06, B.H. Ackler wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 10:49:35 -0400 > > Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes =3D Lead Tape vs. Chain > > From: John McKernon > > > >> This might be a silly question, but has anyone thought of making lead > >> tapes for curtains but with some other metal? Steel? Pig iron? It > >> might be a touch more expensive, but it'd still be a lot quieter than > >> chain. > > > > They use lead because on because it's heavier and doesn't rust, so for > > things like Austrian drapes it's the best solution. For most other > > applications chain is preferable. > > > > - John > > Actually, if you really want "weight/density" and a much higher toxicity > try Depleted Uranium, at twice the density of lead, but the long-term > exposure is a bit tough. You can buy it by the ton in cold-roll ingots. > > Bryan H. Ackler > Portland, Oregon > > > -- Delbert L. Hall ZFX Flying Director Phone: 714-585-7070 ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 16:49:58 -0400 From: "Chris Rovers" Subject: Re: Sketch Up In-Reply-To: References:

On 5/1/06, Steve Jones wrote: > I've played with it a bit. Seems pretty valid for simple and quick > visualization. I wouldn't use it for more than that. > > I wish it had a direction duplicate command. And it seems to often close > openings you've "cut" in if you bring another square anywhere and touch t= he > edge of the opening. Would be nice to be able to import scanned or custo= m > created materials. (dragging this thread back on topic) I just spent a few hours working with it and I'm pretty pleased with it, primarily thinking of just those visualization tasks. Last show I did set for, the director absolutely couldn't get things without an artistic picture (set diagrams not sufficient) and I wish I had this then! (Especially since I'm not an artist, I'm a carpenter) - I'd have walked in with my laptop, flown him through the proposed set and saved myself some frustrating hours of discussions. I think it'll be a fabulous tool for visualization and discussions and playing around with ideas. Though I've read 'Drafting for the Theatre', I'm kinda in Frank's boat where I build what I design, so that my documentation only serves two purposes - to remind me what I'm doing and to communicate to the director, stage manager and actors. I don't need to include technical details, just the broad strokes and Sketchup seems great for that. If I had to send my drawings to a shop to be built, I think I'd stick with a real CAD program or with pencil and drafting board. And you can't beat the price! -cdr ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <2e8.61008b8.318d2642 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 18:05:54 EDT Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain In a message dated 05/05/06 21:47:54 GMT Daylight Time, delbert.hall [at] gmail.com writes: > Gold is very heavy and not toxic. Mercury is even heavier, and, being a liquid, accommodates well to irregularities. It is, though, rather toxic. I had thought of depleted Uranium myself, but it does seem to pose a few problems. Why, I don't know, since its major radioactive component has been removed. As, I think, are most heavy metals, if ingested. The trick is not to ingest them. After all, we have used lead for water pipes for many years with few problems. I do know of one, though. Glasgow's water supply used, in part, to come from Loch Katrine. This is incredibly pure, and very soft in terms of calcium bicarbonate or sulphate. Such water has a propensity to dissolve lead from the pipes, and the waterworks actually made it harder, artificially, to deal with this problem. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <2da.7097b28.318d2af3 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 18:25:55 EDT Subject: Re: Sketch Up In a message dated 05/05/06 21:50:39 GMT Daylight Time, crovers [at] gmail.com writes: > Last show I did set for, the director absolutely couldn't get things > without an artistic picture (set diagrams not sufficient) and I wish I > had this then! (Especially since I'm not an artist, I'm a carpenter) > - I'd have walked in with my laptop, flown him through the proposed > set and saved myself some frustrating hours of discussions. I think that communications are the problem. The director has to communicate his visualisation of the show to the set designer, assuming that he has one, and can. If not, it's the other way round. Either way, the two of them must be in agreement at an early stage. Then the LD gets involved, and not until then, You can't design lights in a vacuum. He will look at the designs, and at the director's wants, and consider how these may be reconciled with what is possible within his own constraints. Now, if any of these three has a communication problem, you may well have trouble. This can go down as low as exactly what colour to paint the set. I have seen a set designer resign over this. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 00:04:55 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain References: In-Reply-To: In message , B.H. Ackler writes >Actually, if you really want "weight/density" and a much higher >toxicity try Depleted Uranium, at twice the density of lead, but the >long-term exposure is a bit tough. You can buy it by the ton in >cold-roll ingots. "Kill the tab warmers." "I have!" "They're still lit." "It's the uranium weights." -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 00:01:46 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: Wood Sketching References: In-Reply-To: In message , FrankWood95 [at] aol.com writes > According to Holy Writ, three years. Personally, I hope much longer. I >see that a South American woman has a claim to be 128, so don't hold >your breath. Yeah, but did SHE systematically bug everybody's tits? -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain From: "Ben Peoples" Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 16:24:42 -0700 Message-ID: <1146871482.819fb7cbpeoples [at] goodtheatre.net> So... I was curious. Prices per pound, various sources, US$: Gold: $11,000 Mercury: $160 Lead (strip): $3.625 Depleted Uranium (DOE estimate): $2.72 Steel (washers): $2.72 Lead (ingot): $2.218 The density of the various materials=20 (at room temperature, approximately): Gold: 1205 lb/ft^3 DU: 1192 lb/ft^3 Mercury: 845 lb/ft^3 Lead: 708 lb/ft^3 Iron/steel: 490 lb/ft^3 -----Original Message----- From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com To: "Stagecraft" Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 18:05:54 EDT Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes =3D Lead Tape vs. Chain=20 For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 05/05/06 21:47:54 GMT Daylight Time,=20 delbert.hall [at] gmail.com writes: > Gold is very heavy and not toxic. Mercury is even heavier, and, being a liquid, accommodates well to=20 irregularities. It is, though, rather toxic. I had thought of depleted Uran= ium myself,=20 but it does seem to pose a few problems. Why, I don't know, since its major= =20 radioactive component has been removed. As, I think, are most heavy metals, if ingested. The trick is not to ingest= =20 them. After all, we have used lead for water pipes for many years with few= =20 problems. I do know of one, though. Glasgow's water supply used, in part, t= o come=20 from Loch Katrine. This is incredibly pure, and very soft in terms of calci= um=20 bicarbonate or sulphate. Such water has a propensity to dissolve lead from = the=20 pipes, and the waterworks actually made it harder, artificially, to deal wi= th=20 this problem. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 16:38:24 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: appropriate metals Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060505163343.01f585e0 [at] interstellar.com> I've just spent all day soldering (well, sort of) antennas on wireless boards that have to go out tomorrow. I'd still like to know where on earth a company that makes antennas for a living got the idea that a heavy brass post (un-tinned) makes a good terminal. I've had to use an old bottle of more active flux and an 800 degree iron to get anything to stick to them at all (I'm considering partial coverage with solder "good enough" for these). At least this isn't a lead-free board. Next versions of any of my wireless boards will NOT have these antennas! -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 00:57:15 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain References: In-Reply-To: In message , Ben Peoples writes >Depleted Uranium (DOE estimate): $2.72 >Steel (washers): $2.72 I tell ya. You can get depleted uranium waste for washers these days. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 00:58:40 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: appropriate metals References: In-Reply-To: In message , Jerry Durand writes >I've just spent all day soldering (well, sort of) antennas on wireless >boards that have to go out tomorrow. I'd still like to know where on >earth a company that makes antennas for a living got the idea that a >heavy brass post (un-tinned) makes a good terminal. I've had to use an >old bottle of more active flux and an 800 degree iron to get anything >to stick to them at all (I'm considering partial coverage with solder >"good enough" for these). At least this isn't a lead-free board. > >Next versions of any of my wireless boards will NOT have these >antennas! That's what happens when you have to use your girlie 25W iron to do a mans job. :P -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 17:12:02 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: appropriate metals In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060505170704.01f660f0 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 04:58 PM 5/5/2006, you wrote: >That's what happens when you have to use your girlie 25W iron to do >a mans job. :P Actually, my normal iron is a Metcal SP200 with 700 degree tips and a Hakko 851 hot air gun. For these antennas, I turned on the old Ungar iron and ran it up to 800F with the WIDE ground plane tip. It would be SO much nicer if the factory would just tin the antenna terminal before packaging them. These wet so poorly that I had one antenna fall out of the joint, leaving a neat pocket in the solder. There was none stuck to the antenna. I was tempted to break out the gas torch. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1045.64.28.62.213.1146874375.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 17:12:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: appropriate metals From: "Bill Nelson" > I've just spent all day soldering (well, sort of) antennas on > wireless boards that have to go out tomorrow. I'd still like to know > where on earth a company that makes antennas for a living got the > idea that a heavy brass post (un-tinned) makes a good terminal. I've > had to use an old bottle of more active flux and an 800 degree iron > to get anything to stick to them at all (I'm considering partial > coverage with solder "good enough" for these). At least this isn't a > lead-free board. Clean brass is pretty easy to solder. Your problem is too low a wattage of iron. Would it be possible to heat the post with a propane torch, instead of a soldering iron? Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1048.64.28.62.213.1146874590.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 17:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: appropriate metals From: "Bill Nelson" >>That's what happens when you have to use your girlie 25W iron to do >>a mans job. :P > > Actually, my normal iron is a Metcal SP200 with 700 degree tips and a > Hakko 851 hot air gun. For these antennas, I turned on the old Ungar > iron and ran it up to 800F with the WIDE ground plane tip. The temperature is not a good indication of the soldering ability. You need watts. > It would be SO much nicer if the factory would just tin the antenna > terminal before packaging them. With that much mass, even that would probably not be enough. > These wet so poorly that I had one antenna fall out of the joint, > leaving a neat pocket in the solder. There was none stuck to the > antenna. I was tempted to break out the gas torch. Again, these are classic symptoms of cold solder joints. You should have used the gas torch - or a much higher wattage iron. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 17:20:01 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: appropriate metals In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060505171652.01f67208 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 05:12 PM 5/5/2006, you wrote: >Would it be possible to heat the post with a propane torch, instead >of a soldering iron? It would, but the plastic housing on the antenna about 0.25" away from the end of the post wouldn't like it, it's already melting some. These are supposed to be machine-soldered into PC boards using standard very mild no-clean flux and soldering profile (a few seconds in the solder is all they get). Yeah, right. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1056.64.28.62.213.1146875049.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 17:24:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: appropriate metals From: "Bill Nelson" > At 05:12 PM 5/5/2006, you wrote: >>Would it be possible to heat the post with a propane torch, instead >>of a soldering iron? > > It would, but the plastic housing on the antenna about 0.25" away > from the end of the post wouldn't like it, it's already melting some. I can believe it, given the long exposure time to heat that you have needed with the dinky soldering iron. Would it be possible to direct a small flame away from the housing onto the post? > These are supposed to be machine-soldered into PC boards using > standard very mild no-clean flux and soldering profile (a few seconds > in the solder is all they get). Yeah, right. With enough wattage, a few seconds is all that would be necessary. How about forgetting soldering completely? Drill and tap a hole in the post, then use the appropriate lug to fasten your wire to the post. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 17:42:53 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: appropriate metals In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060505173000.01f50150 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 05:24 PM 5/5/2006, you wrote: >With enough wattage, a few seconds is all that would be necessary. Quite possibly, but I don't think I'd trust these for any mass production. Too easy to have bare brass get contaminated. The Metcal iron is something like 50W (maybe more), there's a 1" long copper slug that's part of the tip with the self-regulating heater wrapped around it (it's all sealed in a stainless steel tube). I use it to solder solid copper ground planes all the time with the fat tip, takes a second or two to flow solder on the board. These are REALLY nice irons. >How about forgetting soldering completely? Drill and tap a hole in the >post, then use the appropriate lug to fasten your wire to the post. It's not THAT big and at microwave frequencies any extra wire would de-tune it. For future boards, I'll just make the board a little bigger and run the antenna as a trace on the board. For now, I've got them attached. At least there's no mechanical load on these once the board is in the box. For general info, the entire board is 1.125" x 2" including a processor that makes the Apple ][ look slow, the radio transceiver, buttons, coin battery, LED, misc. parts. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 02:17:37 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: appropriate metals References:

In-Reply-To: In message , Jerry Durand writes >It would be SO much nicer if the factory would just tin the antenna >terminal before packaging them. > >These wet so poorly that I had one antenna fall out of the joint, >leaving a neat pocket in the solder. There was none stuck to the >antenna. I was tempted to break out the gas torch. I wonder if there's some kind of oxide or chemical coating on them. Did you try cleaning the brass with a mild abrasive block? -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 18:32:22 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: appropriate metals In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060505182146.01f7e668 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 06:17 PM 5/5/2006, you wrote: >I wonder if there's some kind of oxide or chemical coating on >them. Did you try cleaning the brass with a mild abrasive block? I didn't, I had someone else building the boards originally and they tried soldering all of them. You shouldn't have to do this with modern components, it's supposed to be out of the sealed bag onto the board, solder it, test it, and ship it. You don't even clean them anymore (too much pollution). I would normally have them machine assembled, but it was a tight schedule so we had to hand solder all of them (33 boards with 0402 size components). The only other problem with the rest of the assembly was the transceiver chip, the entire bottom is a ground/heat sink and it's a leadless package (all connections underneath), so that required cranking up the hot air flow a bit, but not even to half power. At least I now have enough boards to ship, the client goes live with these next week in Hawai`i (I should have asked about hand-delivering them :) ). -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000e01c670ae$a786fd60$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Sketch Up Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 18:44:46 -0700 > Sketchup seems great for that. If I had to send my drawings to a shop > to be built, I think I'd stick with a real CAD program or with pencil > and drafting board. Well I have sent drawings to a shop for building, and have included a bitmap image of the SketchUp piece in question right on the construction drawing - they love that! They have the plan and elevation drawings and all the callouts, etc, but having a textured (and color) isometric 'snapshot' of the three dimensional thingie they're building has been a HUGE help. Or so they say. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <445C06D6.3040909 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 22:15:50 -0400 From: Dale Farmer Organization: I'm working on that.... Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain References: In-Reply-To: B.H. Ackler wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >> Date: Thu, 04 May 2006 10:49:35 -0400 >> Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain >> From: John McKernon >> >>> This might be a silly question, but has anyone thought of making lead >>> tapes for curtains but with some other metal? Steel? Pig iron? It >>> might be a touch more expensive, but it'd still be a lot quieter than >>> chain. >> They use lead because on because it's heavier and doesn't rust, so for >> things like Austrian drapes it's the best solution. For most other >> applications chain is preferable. >> >> - John > > Actually, if you really want "weight/density" and a much higher toxicity > try Depleted Uranium, at twice the density of lead, but the long-term > exposure is a bit tough. You can buy it by the ton in cold-roll ingots. > > Bryan H. Ackler > Portland, Oregon DU in use as a curtain weight would probably be perfectly safe. It's primarily an alpha emitter, which is stopped by cloth or a sheet of paper. The main danger would be ignorant hysterical Luddites who will start picketing the theater convinced that the things are potential atomic bombs waiting to go off. The real health risk only comes from DU dust getting inhaled or ingested. Since DU is a rather mechanically robust metal, it isn't going to shed dust like lead will under the right conditions. It's been in use in the aircraft industry for years, it's mainly used as counterweights. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 23:42:26 -0400 From: "Chris Rovers" Subject: Re: Sketch Up In-Reply-To: References:

> Well I have sent drawings to a shop for building, and have included a bit= map > image of the SketchUp piece in question right on the construction drawing= - > they love that! They have the plan and elevation drawings and all the > callouts, etc, but having a textured (and color) isometric 'snapshot' of = the > three dimensional thingie they're building has been a HUGE help. Or so t= hey > say. Very cool. I can certainly see that helping. I meant that I wouldn't use Sketch Up INSTEAD of the plan and elevation drawings, etc. How did that work? Did you work up the piece in Sketch Up, so that you could see it and then produce the shop drawings? Or did you produce the shop drawings first, then do the visualization in Sketch Up? Just curious, since I may end up someday having the luxury of someone else to build my visions :) -cdr ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 23:51:31 -0400 From: "Chris Rovers" Subject: Re: Sketch Up In-Reply-To: References: > In a message dated 05/05/06 21:50:39 GMT Daylight Time, crovers [at] gmail.com > writes: > > Last show I did set for, the director absolutely couldn't get things > > without an artistic picture (set diagrams not sufficient) and I wish I > > had this then! (Especially since I'm not an artist, I'm a carpenter) > > - I'd have walked in with my laptop, flown him through the proposed > > set and saved myself some frustrating hours of discussions. > I think that communications are the problem. The director has to communic= ate > his visualisation of the show to the set designer, assuming that he has o= ne, > and can. If not, it's the other way round. Either way, the two of them mu= st be > in agreement at an early stage. Yes. I was neither - I was the carpenter - but the set designer wasn't available for most of the meetings. I was able to read the designs, however, which the director was not, and, quite painstakingly, explain them. Some people can't look at a set design on paper and produce any sort of imagery in their head. For communicating with them, a product that produces pretty pictures that are reasonably accurate can save a huge amount of time of folding pieces of paper into a 3d representation on the table. Heck, even directors who CAN read drawings would find this helpful - I think back to a few shows back where the set design was done months before the build, was built exactly to the design and the director still just then saw that it wasn't symetrical from side to side (there were reasons for it, to do with what had to occur backstage and it worked visually, but he never noticed, at all, on the 2d picture that it wasn't. It was fine, but it startled him, on tech weekend. I don't like startling directors on tech weekend :) He would have seen it right away, though, had he been able to fly through it. > Then the LD gets involved, and not until then, You can't design lights in= a > vacuum. He will look at the designs, and at the director's wants, and con= sider > how these may be reconciled with what is possible within his own constrai= nts. > Now, if any of these three has a communication problem, you may well have > trouble. This can go down as low as exactly what colour to paint the set.= I have > seen a set designer resign over this. Programs like this can bridge communication gaps. I'm sure as heck using it whenever possible now. Free, reasonably easy to use and quick - I went from installing the program to a nice 3d image of my last set in under 3 hours. It'll be faster, next time, since most of that time was going through the tutorial and building up a set of components, like flats, stairs, risers, platforms, etc. My two cents (Canadian - 1.8 US cents) -cdr ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000301c670c0$cdcd66a0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Sketch Up Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 20:54:41 -0700 > How did that work? Did you work up the piece in Sketch Up, so that > you could see it and then produce the shop drawings? Or did you > produce the shop drawings first, then do the visualization in Sketch > Up? Basically I did it up in SketchUp first - you can draw/build elements to the correct dimensions, but you can also 'eyeball' it. SU also has dimensioning capability, so you can stick the dimensions on it to assist during the CAD drafting portion. Anyway, I save a bitmap from SU (then usually crop/resize it in Photoshop), and plop it down onto my construction drawing. If someone cares to see an example, let me know and I can send a PDF... - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1481.64.28.54.100.1146897903.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 23:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain From: "Bill Nelson" > The real health risk only comes from DU dust getting inhaled or > ingested. Since DU is a rather mechanically robust metal, it isn't > going to shed dust like lead will under the right conditions. It's been > in use in the aircraft industry for years, it's mainly used as > counterweights. I wonder if it has ever been used in the keels of sailboats? Sounds like an ideal way to reduce the wetted surface - thus a faster boat. Bill ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #796 *****************************