Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 30006722; Sun, 07 May 2006 03:02:09 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.6 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL,BAYES_00, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on localhost X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #797 Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 03:01:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #797 1. appropriate metals by Paul Marsland 2. News by "G. D. George" 3. Re: appropriate metals by Jerry Durand 4. Re: News by Herrick Goldman 5. Re: News by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 6. Re: News by seanrmc [at] earthlink.net 7. Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain by Jerry Durand 8. Re: News by Jerry Durand 9. Re: News by "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" 10. Re: News by "Jon Ares" 11. "...a man's job" by "kosteral [at] juno.com" 12. Re: appropriate metals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 13. Re: "...a man's job" by Jerry Durand 14. Re: "...a man's job" by Herrick Goldman 15. Re: appropriate metals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 16. Re: "...a man's job" by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 17. Re: appropriate metals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 18. Re: appropriate metals by "Bill Nelson" 19. Re: "...a lazy man's job" by "Don Taco" 20. Re: Sketch Up by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 21. Re: appropriate metals by "Bill Nelson" 22. Re: appropriate metals by Jerry Durand 23. Re: "...a man's job" by MissWisc [at] aol.com 24. Re: News by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 25. Re: appropriate metals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 26. Re: "...a man's job" by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 27. Re: News by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 28. Re: Sketch Up by "Chris Rovers" 29. Re: "...a man's job" by Pat Kight 30. Re: "...a lazy man's job" by Kate Daly 31. Re: "...a man's job" by "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" 32. Re: "...a man's job" by "Peter Scheu" 33. Re: "...a man's job" by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 34. Re: News by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 35. Re: "...a man's job" by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 36. Re: News by Erwin Rol 37. Re: "...a man's job" by Erwin Rol 38. Re: News by "Delbert Hall" 39. Re: News by "Jon Ares" 40. Re: News by "Jon Ares" 41. Re: odd vehicles (OT except for LRLR) by CB 42. Re: interference on Clear-com (was Bluetooth) by CB 43. Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain by CB 44. Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain by Dale Farmer 45. Re: News by Dale Farmer 46. Re: News by Stephen Litterst 47. Re: "...a man's job" by John Bracewell 48. Re: "...a man's job" by Clive Mitchell 49. OT - students looking for summer work by "Steven Santos" 50. Re: "...a man's job" by "Paul Schreiner" 51. Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain by "Bill Nelson" 52. Re: appropriate metals by "Bill Nelson" 53. Re: "...a man's job" by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 54. Re: News by Charlie Richmond 55. Re: "...a man's job" by Charlie Richmond *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <20060506130859.97961.qmail [at] web52202.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 06:08:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Marsland Subject: appropriate metals In-Reply-To: Not to sound like the amateur in the room, but did you try using a solder pot tot in the antennas? I built many a multi-cable using one and it shaved off a huge portion of the assembly time and was VERY effective, though a vastly different application. Paul > Date: Fri, 05 May 2006 16:38:24 -0700 > From: Jerry Durand > Subject: appropriate metals > Message-id: > <7.0.1.0.0.20060505163343.01f585e0 [at] interstellar.com> > > I've just spent all day soldering (well, sort of) > antennas on > wireless boards that have to go out tomorrow. I'd > still like to know > where on earth a company that makes antennas for a > living got the > idea that a heavy brass post (un-tinned) makes a > good terminal. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "G. D. George" Subject: News Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 09:31:10 -0400 Message-ID: <004801c67111$56ca9ea0$4dbb85cd [at] cms100384> In-Reply-To: Just wanted to share the following with the list: G. D. George, PhD <-------------------------------- Assistant Professor, Technical Director Capital University Theatre Department of Communications 1 College and Main Columbus, OH 43209 (614) 236-6498 ggeorge [at] capital.edu Graduated last night! Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 06:43:41 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: appropriate metals In-reply-to: Message-id: <63401743-9E3C-4CFC-964A-7561D71ACFB8 [at] interstellar.com> References: On May 6, 2006, at 6:08 AM, Paul Marsland wrote: > Not to sound like the amateur in the room, but did you > try using a solder pot tot in the antennas? I built > many a multi-cable using one and it shaved off a huge > portion of the assembly time and was VERY effective, > though a vastly different application. Don't have a solder pot anymore, also the antenna hooks to a surface mount pad. The best bet would have been to pre-tin it by hand dipping in a solder pot (which would would be much easier for the manufacturer to do when they make them...my original point). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 09:54:23 -0400 Subject: Re: News From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Hey! CongraDUAtions! On 5/6/06 9:31 AM, "G. D. George" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Just wanted to share the following with the list: > > G. D. George, PhD <-------------------------------- > Assistant Professor, Technical Director > Capital University Theatre > Department of Communications > 1 College and Main > Columbus, OH 43209 > > (614) 236-6498 > ggeorge [at] capital.edu > > Graduated last night! > > Jerry > > > -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 14:11:57 GMT Subject: Re: News Message-Id: <20060506.071230.10965.299250 [at] webmail36.lax.untd.com> Hmmmm.... I wonder how many persons hold doctorates on this list... /s/ Richard ________________ > Just wanted to share the following with the list: > = > G. D. George, PhD <-------------------------------- > Assistant Professor, Technical Director > Capital University Theatre > Department of Communications > 1 College and Main > Columbus, OH 43209 > = > Graduated last night! > = > Jerry = ------------------------------ Message-ID: <32100547.1146929337135.JavaMail.root [at] elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 11:28:57 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: seanrmc [at] earthlink.net Reply-To: seanrmc [at] earthlink.net Subject: Re: News Congrats Jerry! -----Original Message----- >From: "G. D. George" > >Just wanted to share the following with the list: > >G. D. George, PhD <-------------------------------- >Assistant Professor, Technical Director >Capital University Theatre >Department of Communications >1 College and Main >Columbus, OH 43209 > >(614) 236-6498 >ggeorge [at] capital.edu > >Graduated last night! > >Jerry > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 09:19:15 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060506091658.01f3c4d8 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 11:45 PM 5/5/2006, you wrote: >I wonder if it has ever been used in the keels of sailboats? Sounds like >an ideal way to reduce the wetted surface - thus a faster boat. I don't know about DU, but mercury has certainly been used in watercraft. If I remember right, even Cousteau's saucer used it for trim control (pumped between tanks fore/aft and port/starboard). -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 09:22:15 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: News In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060506091939.01f34b18 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 06:31 AM 5/6/2006, you wrote: >G. D. George, PhD <-------------------------------- Glad you made it. Of course, PhD's probably have their own bar to go to so you'll be leaving all of us regular people here in the Stagecraft bar. Jerry (the one without the PhD, but I DO have a Master's Degree from Dr. Science). -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003c01c67129$72de31c0$6401a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" References: Subject: Re: News Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 10:23:45 -0600 Congratulations > Graduated last night! > > Jerry Rob't ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000e01c6712b$1c804aa0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: News Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 09:35:40 -0700 > > Just wanted to share the following with the list: > > G. D. George, PhD <-------------------------------- Congratulations! - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ From: "kosteral [at] juno.com" Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 17:28:32 GMT Subject: "...a man's job" Message-Id: <20060506.102918.23941.890811 [at] webmail25.nyc.untd.com> >That's what happens when you have to use your girlie 25W iron to do a = >mans job. :P AHEM! There have been a handful of "girlie/manly man" comments such as = this that have come across the list lately, and honestly it is getting t= o be quite boring. If the Good Old Boys on the list would stop grabbing= your crotches and spitting long enough, you might realize there are qui= te a few females in technical theatre. We have to put up with a fair am= ount of shit from people who don't realize that mechanical abilities, ph= ysical strength and math skills are not attached to the Y chromasome. = "Oh, but I was just kidding!" is no excuse. Substitute a derogatory wor= d or phrase for a black, hispanic or asian in place of the female/diminu= tive and you'll see how offensive such 'jokes' can be. = Remember: we work in technical theatre and are hefting around sheets of= 3/4" ply and are adept at using power tools....we can, and will, kick y= our ass! Now play nice. Allison Koster LD/ATD = Carleton College ________________________________________________________________________= Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <414.ddd3eb.318e38cf [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 13:37:19 EDT Subject: Re: appropriate metals In a message dated 06/05/06 01:16:54 GMT Daylight Time, billn [at] peak.org writes: > Again, these are classic symptoms of cold solder joints. You should have > used the gas torch - or a much higher wattage iron. You sound like my French plumber. He carries an oxy-acetylene kit in his van, with very long hoses! Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 10:53:56 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: "...a man's job" In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060506104456.01f36fb0 [at] interstellar.com> References: At 10:28 AM 5/6/2006, you wrote: >AHEM! There have been a handful of "girlie/manly man" comments such >as this that have come across the list lately, and honestly it is >getting to be quite boring. If the Good Old Boys on the list would >stop grabbing your crotches and spitting long enough, you might >realize there are quite a few females in technical theatre. We have >to put up with a fair amount of shit from people who don't realize >that mechanical abilities, physical strength and math skills are not >attached to the Y chromasome. Since I seem to be the one with the "girlie" soldering equipment, I should mention that my wife is a full partner in our business and also used to be a welder/steel fabricator (acting/writing/directing in spare time). We have had a lot of clients who would talk to me about her part of the work as if she was just some low-level employee. I will not stand for that, and our Middle Eastern clients had to learn to talk directly to her about her part of the job. One learned his lesson when he insulted her work and she told him to do the work himself and refused to work for him until he apologized. Who knows, maybe they've learned a little respect for women and will pass it on. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 14:02:30 -0400 Subject: Re: "...a man's job" From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: On 5/6/06 1:28 PM, "kosteral [at] juno.com" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >> That's what happens when you have to use your girlie 25W iron to do a >> mans job. :P > Substitute a derogatory word or > phrase for a black, hispanic or asian in place of the female/diminutive and > you'll see how offensive such 'jokes' can be. > Like: "that's what happens when you use your Black 25w iron to do a Mexican's job"? Eh...whatever... Work hard do your best and you'll be treated well. -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <41d.31381f.318e3e05 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 13:59:33 EDT Subject: Re: appropriate metals In a message dated 06/05/06 01:43:32 GMT Daylight Time, jdurand [at] interstellar.com writes: > The Metcal iron is something like 50W (maybe more), there's a 1" long > copper slug that's part of the tip with the self-regulating heater > wrapped around it (it's all sealed in a stainless steel tube). I use > it to solder solid copper ground planes all the time with the fat > tip, takes a second or two to flow solder on the board. These are > REALLY nice irons. I've alwys used a Weller, myself. It's a 50W 24V iron, with many interchangeable tips, including the "branding iron" for unssoldering all the pins on an IC at once. The tips come in a wide range of temperatures, regulating this ina very neat way. At the base of each tip is a small piece of a magnetic alloy, carefully selected. When this passes through the design temperature, it loses its magnetic properties, and turns off the element. As it cools down, it recovers them, and turns the element on again. With a chunky No.8 tip, I've had no trouble in doing tinsmith's work, although for long seams a hatchet iron is best, heated on a gas stove. I suspct that these parts have been long in store, and have acquired a layer of corrosion, which is why the acid flux works. It's amazingly powerful, even allowing you to solder stainless steel. But, it's corrosive, and the residues need to be carefully washed off. My memory tells me that it is an aqueous solution of zinc chloride, with quite a lot of free hydrochloric acid present. It used to be called 'killed spirits'. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: "...a man's job" Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 14:02:08 -0400 Message-ID: <020801c67137$31467980$6601a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > Work hard do your best and you'll be treated well. That's the way it should be. Alas, it's not the way it always is. ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <3ef.1a0f4e7.318e3eb8 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 14:02:32 EDT Subject: Re: appropriate metals In a message dated 06/05/06 02:33:10 GMT Daylight Time, jdurand [at] interstellar.com writes: > At least I now have enough boards to ship, the client goes live with > these next week in Hawai`i (I should have asked about hand-delivering > them :) ). Maybe you'll get it anyway, when the warranty claims start coming in. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1156.64.28.61.34.1146938649.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 11:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: appropriate metals From: "Bill Nelson" >> Again, these are classic symptoms of cold solder joints. You should have >> used the gas torch - or a much higher wattage iron. > > You sound like my French plumber. He carries an oxy-acetylene kit in his > van, with very long hoses! Well, oxy/acetylene is probably overkill, but it provides a higher heat than propane - and is less expensive. Plumbers have always used a torch of some sort. I remember my father using a kerosene fueled one to melt lead over the calking in the joints of a waste stack. I wonder why he just doesn't get some small portable tanks? Running gas hose up half a dozen flights of stairs would be a real pain - not to mention the resulting pressure drop. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <009301c67138$65812eb0$e28aaa43 [at] DonTaco> From: "Don Taco" Cc: stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com References: Subject: Re: "...a lazy man's job" Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 11:10:42 -0700 From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" > >> Work hard do your best and you'll be treated well. > > That's the way it should be. > Ah, but it's not the Lazy Way. Always do the job just a little bit better than the boss would if the boss did it himself. Always be looking for an easier way to achieve the same results. ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <405.12a2420.318e40b5 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 14:11:01 EDT Subject: Re: Sketch Up In a message dated 06/05/06 04:52:13 GMT Daylight Time, crovers [at] gmail.com writes: > Some people can't look at a set design > on paper and produce any sort of imagery in their head. For > communicating with them, a product that produces pretty pictures that > are reasonably accurate can save a huge amount of time of folding > pieces of paper into a 3d representation on the table. With us, it is normal for the designer to make a 3-D model. This can be as simple or as fancy as the designer thinks is needed, and is usually available in early rehearsal. It helps the actors see what they will have to work with, as well as the director and the LD. The SM may well find it useful, too. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1177.64.28.61.34.1146939196.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 11:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: appropriate metals From: "Bill Nelson" > I suspct that these parts have been long in store, and have acquired a > layer > of corrosion, which is why the acid flux works. It's amazingly powerful, > even > allowing you to solder stainless steel. But, it's corrosive, and the > residues > need to be carefully washed off. My memory tells me that it is an aqueous > solution of zinc chloride, with quite a lot of free hydrochloric acid > present. It used to be called 'killed spirits'. Acid fluxes are OK in plumbing, but are a no-no in electrical work - simply because of the delayed corrosion that is likely to occur from trapped flux. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 11:17:38 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: appropriate metals In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060506110425.01f42b18 [at] interstellar.com> References: At 10:59 AM 5/6/2006, you wrote: > I've alwys used a Weller, myself. It's a 50W 24V iron, with many >interchangeable tips, including the "branding iron" for unssoldering >all the pins on an >IC at once. The tips come in a wide range of temperatures, >regulating this ina >very neat way. At the base of each tip is a small piece of a magnetic alloy, >carefully selected. When this passes through the design temperature, it loses >its magnetic properties, and turns off the element. As it cools down, it >recovers them, and turns the element on again. I used to use those, but now that I'm soldering parts down to 0201 size (0.020" x 0.010"), the jarring caused by the magnet jumping to and fro in the handle operating the power contacts is just unacceptable. Also, the heater is some distance from the tip. The Metcal has the heater bonded TO the copper slug in the tip and inherently self regulates (the heater itself is a Curie point material). >With a chunky No.8 tip, I've had no trouble in doing tinsmith's work, >although for long seams a hatchet iron is best, heated on a gas stove. I think I still have some of my father's old irons in storage, 1/2" square bar of copper with a pointed end mounted on a steel rod with a wooden handle. >I suspct that these parts have been long in store, and have acquired a layer >of corrosion, which is why the acid flux works. It's amazingly powerful, even >allowing you to solder stainless steel. But, it's corrosive, and the residues >need to be carefully washed off. My memory tells me that it is an aqueous >solution of zinc chloride, with quite a lot of free hydrochloric >acid present. It >used to be called 'killed spirits'. Yep, that's the stuff that's not allowed anywhere near PC boards (eats through tiny traces in no time). If these had been acid dipped, tinned and cleaned by the manufacturer, I'd have no complaints. As it is, I've told them I won't be using these parts again and why. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <2e9.61f662e.318e44b0 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 14:28:00 EDT Subject: Re: "...a man's job" Herrick [at] HGLightingDesign.com writes: << Work hard do your best and you'll be treated well. >> I disagree, Herrick. This is about those little snide comments that men make to try to keep women "in their place" and usually don't realize they are offensive until someone points it out to them. It's called sexual harrassment it's illegal in the workplace - interestingly enough - covered by the same US federal civil rights laws that make it illegal to hire based on race. The first step to fixing the problem is making people aware that their actions are offensive, that's what Alyson did. I've read similar comments in the past and consider the source(s) to be uncouth cads whom I'd never hire and with whom I hope I never work. Kristi ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <25b.ac2e63a.318e44e3 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 14:28:51 EDT Subject: Re: News In a message dated 06/05/06 15:13:43 GMT Daylight Time, ladesigners [at] juno.com writes: > Hmmmm.... I wonder how many persons hold doctorates on this list... Probably quite a few. But, and to save you all the trouble, I shall say that I am a grumpy old cynic, what are they worth? Once, when I was young, and at university myself, It meant something. As I remember, "making an original contribution" was a pre-requisite. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <2fa.45c2179.318e4987 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 14:48:39 EDT Subject: Re: appropriate metals In a message dated 06/05/06 19:07:53 GMT Daylight Time, billn [at] peak.org writes: > Well, oxy/acetylene is probably overkill, but it provides a higher heat > than propane - and is less expensive. Plumbers have always used a torch of > some sort. I remember my father using a kerosene fueled one to melt lead > over the calking in the joints of a waste stack. > > I wonder why he just doesn't get some small portable tanks? Running gas > hose up half a dozen flights of stairs would be a real pain - not to > mention the resulting pressure drop. Well, I think it's overkill. But it works. And I think it poses a smaller fire hazard, since the heat is very localised. It is a much smaller flame than propane. I have only two flights of stairs. Both helical and cramped. Long hoses serve, and ctually, they came in through the spare bedroom window. The French have a more libertarian attitude to obstructive parking, as befits their history. A tradesman doing a job can park where he needs to. There is usually a way round. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 18:47:13 GMT Subject: Re: "...a man's job" Message-Id: <20060506.114803.752.40644 [at] webmail31.lax.untd.com> Dear Allison, Well, Playing Nice is a good idea, but playing Safe is even better, and = derogatory comments can endanger the speaker when the listener takes off= ense. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. In this Theatrical arena, Polit= ical Correctness is being strictly enforced, often by the offended party= using self-help, normally, but not always, with sub-lethal results, whe= n the law proves inadequate to address their needs. We have reached a po= int in which some persons, not necessarily women, find that they are una= ble to comply with what today's protocol mandates and it is they who are= forced out of our shops and stages. /s/ Richard _________________________ Remember: we work in technical theatre and are hefting around sheets of= 3/4" ply and are adept at using power tools....we can, and will, kick y= our ass! Now play nice. Allison Koster ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 19:01:34 GMT Subject: Re: News Message-Id: <20060506.120207.752.40658 [at] webmail31.lax.untd.com> Dear Frank, I suspect that you are correct, but I was thinking of another issue. Sin= ce I frequently hear of posters to this list requesting information or o= pinions to be presented to the 'Powers that Be' in their professional li= ves, perhaps if it could be unequivocally established that the opinions = and data presented on the Stagecraft List-serve underwent informal peer = review just by being posted and not shot down by persons in the Theatre = industry who hold Doctorates, the postings presented to the 'Powers that= Be' would be more credible. /s/ Richard ladesigners [at] juno.com writes: > Hmmmm.... I wonder how many persons hold doctorates on this list... Probably quite a few. But, and to save you all the trouble, I shall say = that I am a grumpy old cynic, what are they worth? Once, when I was youn= g, and at university myself, It meant something. As I remember, "making = an original contribution" was a pre-requisite. = Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 15:28:55 -0400 From: "Chris Rovers" Subject: Re: Sketch Up In-Reply-To: References: > In a message dated 06/05/06 04:52:13 GMT Daylight Time, crovers [at] gmail.com > writes: > > Some people can't look at a set design > > on paper and produce any sort of imagery in their head. For > > communicating with them, a product that produces pretty pictures that > > are reasonably accurate can save a huge amount of time of folding > > pieces of paper into a 3d representation on the table. > > With us, it is normal for the designer to make a 3-D model. This can be a= s > simple or as fancy as the designer thinks is needed, and is usually avail= able in > early rehearsal. It helps the actors see what they will have to work with= , as > well as the director and the LD. The SM may well find it useful, too. This is just a quick and easy way of making a 3d model, then. And with doing 8-12 or so shows a year, often at almost no notice, working fulltime doing something completely unrelated to theatre AND spearheading the rebuilding of our building, shortcuts are good, especially since my wife likes occasionally seeing me. Chris ------------------------------ Message-ID: <445CFADA.3010408 [at] peak.org> Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 12:36:58 -0700 From: Pat Kight Subject: Re: "...a man's job" References: In-Reply-To: kosteral [at] juno.com wrote: >>That's what happens when you have to use your girlie 25W iron to do a >>mans job. :P > AHEM! There have been a handful of "girlie/manly man" comments such as this that have come across the list lately, and honestly it is getting to be quite boring. If the Good Old Boys on the list would stop grabbing your crotches and spitting long enough, you might realize there are quite a few females in technical theatre. We have to put up with a fair amount of shit from people who don't realize that mechanical abilities, physical strength and math skills are not attached to the Y chromasome. > > "Oh, but I was just kidding!" is no excuse. Substitute a derogatory word or phrase for a black, hispanic or asian in place of the female/diminutive and you'll see how offensive such 'jokes' can be. > > Remember: we work in technical theatre and are hefting around sheets of 3/4" ply and are adept at using power tools....we can, and will, kick your ass! Amen, Alison. My back and I are getting old; my days of hefting sheets of ply unassisted are probably over. But I've got decades of experience and skill, and I still run into the occasional guy who thinks his chromosomes alone mean he knows more than I do. I'm counting the moments until some guy pipes up to complain about "political correctness." Surprise me, gents, and take a moment to consider what it would be like to be judged not on your abilities but on your gender, every day of your working life. It gets pretty damned old after a while. -- Pat Kight kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20060506154057.02c334c8 [at] mail.comcast.net> Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 15:42:02 -0400 From: Kate Daly Subject: Re: "...a lazy man's job" In-Reply-To: References:

> Always do the job just a little bit better than the boss would > if the boss did it himself. Or herself. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <004101c67145$afd4d180$6401a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" References: Subject: Re: "...a man's job" Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 13:45:53 -0600 >>Allison Koster >>Remember: we work in technical theatre and are hefting around sheets of 3/4" ply and are adept at using >>power tools....we can, and will, kick your ass! I don't want you to kiss my ass or kick my ass. I want you to see that goal in front of us and get there with our combined talents. Rob't ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Peter Scheu" Subject: RE: "...a man's job" Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 12:58:32 -0700 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc Message-ID: In-reply-to: Kristi wrote: > The first step to fixing the problem is making people aware > that their actions are offensive, that's what Alyson did. It's called "enlightenment" or "consciousness raising". Something many of those involved in the performing arts see as a calling. And to do so while being entertaining is a plus. All of us make comments at times when our mouths engage before the brain does, myself included. I'm sure Alyson's the forgiving type, so long as we learn from our mistakes. Her comments rightly remind us that we all need to remain sensitive to such things, especially in a public forum like this list. Right Governor Schwarzenegger? Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <370.36b3a81.318e8232 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 18:50:26 EDT Subject: Re: "...a man's job" In a message dated 06/05/06 20:48:05 GMT Daylight Time, ladesigners [at] juno.com writes: > Well, Playing Nice is a good idea, but playing Safe is even better, and > derogatory comments can endanger the speaker when the listener takes offense. > When in Rome, do as the Romans do. In this Theatrical arena, Political > Correctness is being strictly enforced, often by the offended party using > self-help, normally, but not always, with sub-lethal results, when the law > proves inadequate to address their needs. We have reached a point in which > some persons, not necessarily women, find that they are unable to comply with > what today's protocol mandates and it is they who are forced out of our shops > and stages. > /s/ Richard > _________________________ > Remember: we work in technical theatre and are hefting around sheets of 3/4" > ply and are adept at using power tools....we can, and will, kick your ass! I didn't really want to butt in on this topic, but I feel that I should. Understand, if someone can do a job competently, I don't care what sex they are, but I do require the competence. But whn I see people crawling round the stage floor nailing hardboard (masonite) to it, who don't even know how to use a hammer, I feel concerned. But, generally, women tend to have a lower level of technical understanding. I think that is due to old fashioned educational princioles, but it is a fact. The 'softer sex' is taught skills in the softer trades. This reflects the prejudices of the day. It is different nowadays. PC apart, many women have had to learn DIY skills, and some of these carry over into theatrical work.And others too. The best three SMs I have worked with were both female. Technicians, they were not: managers they were. They ran a very tight ship. One at least still does: I married her. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <268.9be6eb6.318e8541 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 19:03:29 EDT Subject: Re: News In a message dated 06/05/06 20:48:11 GMT Daylight Time, ladesigners [at] juno.com writes: > I suspect that you are correct, but I was thinking of another issue. Since I > frequently hear of posters to this list requesting information or opinions to > be presented to the 'Powers that Be' in their professional lives, perhaps if > it could be unequivocally established that the opinions and data presented on > the Stagecraft List-serve underwent informal peer review just by being posted > and not shot down by persons in the Theatre industry who hold Doctorates, the > postings presented to the 'Powers that Be' would be more credible. I wish I could believe you, but I don't. The 'Powers that Be', from where I sit, resemble ostriches, which have a habit of byrying their heads in the sand when faced with something unpalatable. That they might be wrong is often a prime cause. They are infallible. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: "...a man's job" Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 19:24:16 -0400 Message-ID: <025601c67164$31ebe7d0$6601a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > I'm counting the moments until some guy pipes up to complain about > "political correctness." Gee, I always thought that "PC" stood for "politely considerate"...which we all should be. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: News From: Erwin Rol In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 01:42:28 +0200 Message-Id: <1146958948.2630.250.camel [at] xpc.home.erwinrol.com> On Sat, 2006-05-06 at 14:11 +0000, ladesigners [at] juno.com wrote: > Hmmmm.... I wonder how many persons hold doctorates on this list... I just got an email offer for doctorates from several US universities, I wonder if they are worth their money. For someone like me with a 3 letter last name and only one first name, every extra letters on a business card are welcome :-) - Erwin ------------------------------ Subject: Re: "...a man's job" From: Erwin Rol In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 07 May 2006 01:58:03 +0200 Message-Id: <1146959883.2630.260.camel [at] xpc.home.erwinrol.com> On Sat, 2006-05-06 at 17:28 +0000, kosteral [at] juno.com wrote: > "Oh, but I was just kidding!" is no excuse. Substitute a derogatory > word or phrase for a black, hispanic or asian in place of the > female/diminutive and you'll see how offensive such 'jokes' can be. Yeah and I vote for removing all negative sayings with the word Dutch in them, like "going Dutch", "Dutch uncle" and "Dutch wife", cause we are really offended by that, cause everybody knows "It ain't much when it ain't Dutch" ;-P - Erwin ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 20:02:40 -0400 From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: News In-Reply-To: References: I do. Ph.D. from the University of Florida (1986). > Hmmmm.... I wonder how many persons hold doctorates on this list... > /s/ Richard I do. Ph.D. from the University of Florida (1986). -Delbert -- Delbert L. Hall ZFX Flying Director Phone: 714-585-7070 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001b01c6716a$c1de4800$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: News Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 17:11:15 -0700 > > I just got an email offer for doctorates from several US universities, I > wonder if they are worth their money. I've always wanted to get one of those -- I want to be a brain surgeon with a degree from a "prestigious, unaccredited college or university" (as the emails say) - maybe a nice med school in the Caribbean. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative PS: I've never seen one for a US university - but some were universities in Canada, and most offers don't say where they're from. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002301c6716a$e10570a0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: News Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 17:12:08 -0700 > > I do. Ph.D. from the University of Florida (1986). > > >> Hmmmm.... I wonder how many persons hold doctorates on this list... >> /s/ Richard > > I do. Ph.D. from the University of Florida (1986). > > -Delbert Apparently Delbert has 2. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060506172750.00d3e668 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 17:27:50 From: CB Subject: Re: odd vehicles (OT except for LRLR) >This weekend in London a French theatre company called Royal De Luxe >is performing a piece of street theatre called "The Sultans Elephant" >which has a 42 ton prop elephant. Right next to it was a photo of a 50' automated Pinocchio. The automation looks like it needs a little work... Or is that the elephant's rider? (What and leave show business?) Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060506174510.00d3e668 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 17:45:10 From: CB Subject: Re: interference on Clear-com (was Bluetooth) >So I turned off my phone, which speeded the tech up... Heeeheeheeeheeeheeheeheehee! (hopefully you made a personal apology to any skweeks/future wood butchers?) Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060506180447.00d3e668 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 18:04:47 From: CB Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain >> The real health risk only comes from DU dust getting inhaled or >> ingested. Since DU is a rather mechanically robust metal, it isn't >> going to shed dust like lead will under the right conditions. Yeah, but if it does (say, it gets used in a traveller, and the fabric wears thru and starts to grind away at the DU) isn't it pyrophoric? I guess sprinklering the drapes could work, but... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: <445D5C5A.2040806 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 22:32:58 -0400 From: Dale Farmer Organization: I'm working on that.... Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain References: In-Reply-To: CB wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >>> The real health risk only comes from DU dust getting inhaled or >>> ingested. Since DU is a rather mechanically robust metal, it isn't >>> going to shed dust like lead will under the right conditions. > > Yeah, but if it does (say, it gets used in a traveller, and the fabric > wears thru and starts to grind away at the DU) isn't it pyrophoric? I > guess sprinklering the drapes could work, but... > > > Chris "Chris" Babbie > Location Sound > MON AZ > > Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates > negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... > > > Sure, if you were to be opening the curtains at a mach 2 or faster. It burns, but needs to be powdered and have a lot of energy added to it to ignite it. Slamming into something hard and strong (like the armor of a main battle tank) at several thousand feet per second does it pretty reliably. I'd have to go look it up to see what the specifics are. --Dale --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <445D5D63.3030408 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 22:37:23 -0400 From: Dale Farmer Organization: I'm working on that.... Subject: Re: News References:

In-Reply-To: Jon Ares wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >> >> I just got an email offer for doctorates from several US universities, I >> wonder if they are worth their money. > > I've always wanted to get one of those -- I want to be a brain surgeon > with a degree from a "prestigious, unaccredited college or university" > (as the emails say) - maybe a nice med school in the Caribbean. > > - Jon Ares > www.hevanet.com/acreative > > PS: I've never seen one for a US university - but some were universities > in Canada, and most offers don't say where they're from. > > > When I was job hunting, one head hunter suggested buying one of these bogus degrees as a means of getting my resume past the HR drones and actually into the hand of a hiring manager. If asked about the degree in the interview, tell them the truth, that it is real, but worthless except as a means of passing through the resume filter to get a real job interview. I declined to use this ploy. --Dale ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 22:59:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: News In-reply-to: Message-id: <1369.24.58.9.233.1146970756.squirrel [at] webmail.ithaca.edu> References: > --------------------------------------------------- > Probably quite a few. But, and to save you all the trouble, I shall say > that I am a grumpy old cynic, what are they worth? Once, when I was young, > and at university myself, It meant something. As I remember, "making an > original contribution" was a pre-requisite. Which ties us nicely back into the Patent discussion... Steve L. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20060506233440.00bca3f8 [at] pop.lightlink.com> Date: Sat, 06 May 2006 23:36:49 -0400 From: John Bracewell Subject: Re: "...a man's job" In-Reply-To: References:

OK. So has anybody (other than GEICO ) offended cave men lately? Seriously, we all need to get into the habit of as much gender neutrality as the English languate (and I suppose others as well) will permit. Which ain't much, sadly. I'm not particularly fond of substitution of "their" for "his and/or hers," but at least it's a start to finding some linguistic method of removing gender reference. -- JLB ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 03:45:32 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: "...a man's job" References: In-Reply-To: In message , "kosteral [at] juno.com" writes >AHEM! There have been a handful of "girlie/manly man" comments such as >this that have come across the list lately, and honestly it is getting >to be quite boring. If the Good Old Boys on the list would stop >grabbing your crotches and spitting long enough, you might realize >there are quite a few females in technical theatre. We have to put up >with a fair amount of shit from people who don't realize that >mechanical abilities, physical strength and math skills are not >attached to the Y chromasome. If you're a typical female theatre worker, then you're "one of the guys". The term "girlie" applies to both men and women and relates to the stereotype of the high pitched and helpless bimbo. Now run along darling before your frock gets dirty. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ From: "Steven Santos" Subject: OT - students looking for summer work Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 00:21:36 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I have had two students ask me where they should start looking for summer work in thearter arts in the greater Boston area. One is a 20 year old collage student, the other is a 17 year old student, both girls are looking for entry level jobs, and are more interested in the experiance than anything else. Anyone have any sugestions on where I might be able to direct them to start looking? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Steven Santos Director, Simply Circus, Inc. Email: Steven [at] SimplyCircus.com Mail: PO BOX 620753 Newton, MA 02462 Phone: 781-799-4938 eFax: 309-214-0899 Web: www.SimplyCircus.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 01:28:04 -0400 From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: "...a man's job" In-Reply-To: References:

> In message , "kosteral [at] juno.com" > writes > >AHEM! There have been a handful of "girlie/manly man" comments such as > >this that have come across the list lately, and honestly it is getting > >to be quite boring. If the Good Old Boys on the list would stop > >grabbing your crotches and spitting long enough, you might realize > >there are quite a few females in technical theatre. > > If you're a typical female theatre worker, then you're "one of the > guys". The term "girlie" applies to both men and women and relates to > the stereotype of the high pitched and helpless bimbo. A few random thoughts to throw fuel on the fire at quarter after 1 in the morning and after a few frosty ones... I work/teach at Randolph-Macon Woman's College. I *have* to be conscious of this sort of thing on an ongoing basis, and have always started each semester with an announcement in my class(es) that I use the term "guys" to refer to any collection of people working towards a common goal. Nothing gender-specific about it. So on that point, I wholeheartedly agree with Clive. But at the same time, I hear what Allison's saying, and that bothers me too, because the etymology is so tightly woven with the cultural aspect of the debate. Making up words out of the blue is out of the question. So what do we do? OTOH, I also don't use the term "girly-man" or anything like it as that kind of adjective. For me, in the atmosphere around here, "limp" or "flaccid" tends to get the point across a lot better. (Any surprise there?) Does that unjustifiably denigrate impotent males?=20 Sometimes, language being what it is, adjectives that are completely without any semblance of emotional charge like that just don't work effectively to get one's point across... When I see or hear "girly-man", I personally jump in my mind to the old (early-90s) SNL skit with Hans and Franz...and if I ever do use it, it's always with that affected fake accent of theirs. I seriously doubt anyone could/would ever take offense in that sort of way, unless they were steroid-pumped Austrian weightlifters with an inferiority complex. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. :) I wish this topic had come up a couple of weeks ago, when classes were in session...I'd have my students weigh in on it and give us all another perspective (yes, my kids all have to subscribe as part of the class requirements). Okay, I'm off to bed. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1174.64.28.53.58.1146982177.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 23:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Weight in Stage Drapes = Lead Tape vs. Chain From: "Bill Nelson" > Yeah, but if it does (say, it gets used in a traveller, and the fabric > wears thru and starts to grind away at the DU) isn't it pyrophoric? I > guess sprinklering the drapes could work, but... Very fine lead dust is pyrophoric. Matter of fact, there used to be a demonstration performed by high school physics/chemistry teachers to demonstrate this principle. Given the current lead hysteria, I doubt if it is used any longer. It is not a problem. The surface of the DU would oxidize while still in the mass. So it would be uranium oxide that would scrape/grond off - not the pure metal. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1178.64.28.53.58.1146982408.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 23:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: appropriate metals From: "Bill Nelson" >> I wonder why he just doesn't get some small portable tanks? Running gas >> hose up half a dozen flights of stairs would be a real pain - not to >> mention the resulting pressure drop. > > Well, I think it's overkill. But it works. And I think it poses a smaller > fire hazard, since the heat is very localised. It is a much smaller flame > than propane. > > I have only two flights of stairs. Both helical and cramped. Long hoses > serve, and ctually, they came in through the spare bedroom window. That doesn't answer my question about why he just doesn't use a couple of small bottles of acetylene and oxygen - rather than dragging that long heavy hose. Bill ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: "...a man's job" Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 05:00:03 -0400 Message-ID: <002701c671b4$a1286970$6601a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > Yes, it was. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 10:22:58 +0100 (BST) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Sun, 7 May 2006, Erwin Rol wrote: > I just got an email offer for doctorates from several US universities, I > wonder if they are worth their money. For someone like me with a 3 > letter last name and only one first name, every extra letters on a > business card are welcome :-) My thoughts exactly! Bring 'em on!!! After all, I may need to look for a new job eventually... Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2006 10:26:53 +0100 (BST) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: "...a man's job" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Sun, 7 May 2006, Erwin Rol wrote: > Yeah and I vote for removing all negative sayings with the word Dutch in > them, like "going Dutch", "Dutch uncle" and "Dutch wife", cause we are > really offended by that, cause everybody knows "It ain't much when it > ain't Dutch" ;-P But not Dutch door??? And I vote against 'Going Dutch' because it truly is the Dutch who always seem to insist on sharing the bill - which I heartily approve of ;-) How about "All roads lead to Rome" "When in Rome do as the Romans do" "Rome wasn't built in a day" "Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears" Aren't these somewhat objectionable? ;-) Charlie ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #797 *****************************