Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 30403967; Sat, 20 May 2006 03:03:10 -0700 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL,BAYES_00, INFO_TLD,NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS,URI_SCHEME_MIXED_CASE autolearn=no version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on localhost X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #814 Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 03:00:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #814 1. Speaking of weapons. by Dale Farmer 2. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Delbert Hall" 3. Re: Will Roger's Stairs by IAEG [at] aol.com 4. Safety provisions (was Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions) by Bruce Purdy 5. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Bill Conner" 6. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Peter Scheu" 7. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Peter Scheu" 8. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Steven Haworth" 9. Re: Safety provisions (was Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions) by "Delbert Hall" 10. Good mixer type by Paul Marsland 11. Re: TElrad Sight by Robert Graham 12. Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by Paul Marsland 13. Re: Safety provisions (was Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions) by rwhitco [at] comcast.net (Randy Whitcomb) 14. Re: Speaking of weapons. by Jerry Durand 15. Re: Speaking of weapons. by Bill Sapsis 16. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by Jerry Durand 17. Re: Speaking of weapons. by Jerry Durand 18. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by Bill Sapsis 19. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Peter Scheu" 20. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by Jerry Durand 21. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Delbert Hall" 22. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Peter Scheu" 23. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "RD" 24. Re: stopping a telemarketer by NODEraser 25. Re: Safety provisions (was Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions) by "RD" 26. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by rwhitco [at] comcast.net (Randy Whitcomb) 27. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "RD" 28. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "RD" 29. Re: Safety provisions (was Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions) by "RD" 30. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "RD" 31. Re: Good mixer type by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 32. Re: stopping a telemarketer by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 33. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 34. Re: stopping a telemarketer by Steve Larson 35. Re: Will Roger's Stairs by "RD" 36. Melting telrads by Paul Marsland 37. Re: Melting telrads by Steve Shelley 38. Re: Speaking of weapons. by Clive Mitchell 39. Re: Richard's Fotos by CB 40. Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... by CB 41. Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... by "RD" 42. Re: Weapons: best practice procedures? by CB 43. Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... by CB 44. Re: Good mixer type by CB 45. Re: Good mixer type by CB 46. Re: Good mixer type by CB 47. Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... by CB 48. Cutter/Draper position at UNCG by Christopher Haas CEHAAS 49. Re: Good mixer type by "Storms, Randy" 50. Re: Good mixer type by Jim Hyslop 51. Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... by Jim Hyslop 52. Re: Good mixer type by Charlie Richmond 53. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 54. Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 55. Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 56. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by Stephen Litterst 57. Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... by "Bill Nelson" 58. Re: Richard's Fotos by "Dave Tosti-Lane" 59. Re: Melting Telrads by June Abernathy 60. Metamorphoses Pool by "Jonathan S. Deull" 61. Vectorworks Rigging Symbols by Brian James 62. Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... by "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <446DAD31.1030600 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 07:34:09 -0400 From: Dale Farmer Organization: I'm working on that.... Subject: Speaking of weapons. Someone told me about how they did an explosion gag for a corporate event recently, which doesn't require fire department assistance. Take a metal trash can, fill it with those lightweight packing peanuts. With a largish cardboard tube sticking down to the bottom like a soda straw. Fill a discarded plastic soda pop bottle with an inch or two of liquid nitrogen, put cap on tightly and insert it into the cardboard tube, then remove the tube, leaving the bottle now underneath all the packing peanuts. Minute or so later, the bottle ruptures, launching peanuts skyward. Noise and shrapnel from bottle are contained and absorbed by the metal bin and the packing peanuts. No pyro, smoke, etc to deal with requiring licenses or special preparation. Only drawback is not being able to cue it very accurately. There are dangers to this method, but they ought to be easily manageable with clueful stagecrew. Thought folks here would be interested. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 07:39:25 -0400 From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In-Reply-To: References:

Several years ago I was doing a flying effect at the Blumenthal North Carolina PAC in Charlotte. For this production the orchestra (the Charlotte Symphony) was onstage, upstage of the set. They required more space than the scenic designer had originally provided and that forced the set to have to be moved downstage, causing the turntable to break the fire curtain by about 15 inches. The fire marshall, of course, interviened. He agreed to let the production continue if the company built small platforms (the height of the turntable) from steel studs and covered with dryway that would fill the "gap" all the way across the proscenium, and could demonstrate that they could put them in place and lower the fire curtain within 60 seconds, IIRC. The units were stored directely upstage of the proscenium and technicians were assigned and trained on how to put them in place. I remember that demonstration very well - stagehands carrying out the units, putting them in place, and the fire curtain coming in and sealing the proscenium opening, while being timed by the fire marshall. The fire marshall approved the solution and the show went on as scheduled. I do not see any difference between this situation and assigning a stagehand to move a chair or stool out of path of the fire curtain, if necessary. Smoke alarms must be disabled from time to time to allow for pyro. When they are, other provisions must be enacted to assure the safety of the audience. The "rule" is not what is important. Protecting the audience is. If you can protect the audience despite violating the firecurtain rule, you are still doing your job. Todd is obviously concerned about protecting the audience in his theatre. He makes a point of always determining if a firecurtain issue exist and tries to prevent it at all possible costs. When it is not reasonably possible, he devises a solution that provides for the safety of the audience. In my opinion, Todd is doing his job. I have worked with Todd on a couple of occasions. Todd is an excellent TD and I trust his judgement in these situations. Let's face it, there are a lot of proscenium theatres that do not have fire curtains, or where the firecurtains do not operate. I inspected a theatre in January where someone had stacked a few extra weights on the firecurtain's arbor preventing it from lowering when the fireline was broken. The fix was simple, remove the extra weights, but the fact was that the problem had probably existed for many years. Fire curtains are greatly misunderstood. Dan Culhane had an excellent article on firecurtins in a recent issue of TD&T. It is certainly well worth reading. OK, that my opinion. -Delbert --=20 Delbert L. Hall ZFX Flying Director Phone: 714-585-7070 ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <390.2f23758.319f09b5 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 07:44:53 EDT Subject: Re: Will Roger's Stairs In a message dated 5/18/06 9:24:19 PM, wilson [at] brandeis.edu writes: << What's the secret to searching the archives? I keep getting a server not responding error- >> ditto me too..... best regards, Keith Arsenault International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, FL 813 831 3465 office 813 205 0893 cell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 08:07:12 -0400 Subject: Safety provisions (was Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions) From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: As part of his level headed post on Fire curtains, Delbert said: > Smoke alarms must be disabled from time to time to allow > for pyro. When they are, other provisions must be enacted to assure > the safety of the audience. The "rule" is not what is important. > Protecting the audience is. This raises another interesting question: We have to turn off our smoke detectors in the auditorium and stage areas whenever fog or haze is used. Other than notifying the fire department, and NO pyro - "Not even a candle" - what other safety provisions would be appropriate? Having stagehands standing by with fire extinguishers doesn't seem as appropriate a provision in this situation as if a fire effect was being used. Just curious - does anyone have standard safety plans in this situation? Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003201c67b3e$7ffbb930$666514ac [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 07:19:38 -0500 Peter S's points are right on but a few comments may be interesting. First, closing to the stage floor when the stage is in use is perhaps implied but not called out in the existing codes. Second, there is pretty good and accepted documentation that even if the fire safety curtain only closes part way (or not at all in some cases) the draft of stage ventilation is sufficient to protect the audience. Third, I still have the unanswered challenge out there for an example of where a fire safety curtain saved a life or lessened injury from fire in a theatre in this country. If you add sprinklered theatre - as all are required to be but aren't - I'm pretty certain there isn't an example to be had. As an aside, I solicit your support of a proposed change to the International Building Code to permit smoke management systems (engineered mechanical exhaust) in place of fire safety curtains. This is already permitted by the NFPA and the Life Safety Code. So, as Peter suggests, work with your ahj for approved temporary modifications and consider working for modernization of regulations overall. Like buggy whips and firemen on locomotives, it may be time. Bill C. ASTC, ETCP CR-T ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Peter Scheu" Cc: delbert.hall [at] gmail.com, billn [at] peak.org Subject: RE: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 08:23:13 -0400 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: In-reply-to: Delbert Hall wrote: >In my opinion, Todd is doing his job. I have >worked with Todd on a couple of occasions. Todd is an excellent TD >and I trust his judgment in these situations. I hope people aren't misconstruing what I've said, or my attitude or = passion in this discussion. I'm sure Todd is an excellent TD and none of my = comments should be taken in a way that questions that. Just the fact that Todd's asking the question before acting indicates to me he's concerned and is looking for the "right" answer, which is a GOOD thing. The ONLY point I'm trying to make is, either one follow the rules (which = are there for damn good reasons), or works with the rule makers (the AHJ) to develop alternatives if the rules don't work for a particular situation. Just like Delbert's excellent example.=20 Bill Nelson wrote: >Hm. 30 seconds would imply that anything not nailed down would be OK.=20 >That assumes the curtain is not so fast that there is no time to move = the object. Again, if there is a plan in place to remove the obstruction (or have it break away as in Delbert's example), and the plan's been cleared with = the AHJ, I have no problem with it. But 30 seconds is a very short time in = an emergency situation, especially if you are relying on human beings to remember what to do in all that confusion, unless it's been drilled and drilled and drilled into them by training and/or rehearsals. IMHO, the effectiveness of a building's life safety protective systems = (like sprinklers, smoke vents, fire curtains, etc.) should not rely on human intervention. It's OK to have a human also activate automatic systems, = but once they start, they should be automatic until told to stop by = qualified persons or by indicators built into the systems. Can you imagine having = to move something out of the way that was "deliberately" blocking an = emergency exit door, then having to try and justify your actions later? Ugh! Thanks. Peter Scheu =20 Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Syracuse, NY www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Peter Scheu" Cc: bill [at] bcaworld.com ('Bill Conner') Subject: RE: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 08:36:18 -0400 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: In-reply-to: Bill Conner wrote: >Third, I still have the unanswered challenge out there for an=20 >example of where a fire safety curtain saved a life or lessened injury=20 >from fire in a theatre in this country. If you add sprinklered theatre = - as all are=20 >required to be but aren't - I'm pretty certain there isn't an=20 >example to be had. Picky, picky, picky. ;-) I'd support Bill's efforts to make changes in codes that may effectively = end the "fire curtain era" by using alternate means (i.e. sprinklers, smoke evac, etc.). But as long as FC's are still required by codes, they = should be reliable and meet certain standards. But the alternate systems don't stop debris from falling into the = audience chamber. Unless you install Pratt & Whitney exhaust fans and suck all = the scenery out and let the debris fall on the cars and escaping audience members in the parking lot. Peter Scheu =20 Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Syracuse, NY www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 07:52:50 -0500 Message-ID: <5D5187063B6B8B46A99E8C0D36E0EB0901AAA2F2 [at] danube.river.idm.com> From: "Steven Haworth" Cc: peter [at] scheuconsulting.com >But the alternate systems don't stop debris from falling into=20 >the audience chamber. Unless you install Pratt & Whitney=20 >exhaust fans and suck all the scenery out and let the debris=20 >fall on the cars and escaping audience members in the parking lot. Those jets / fans might be handy for special effects as well - they could double as the tornado in Wizard of Oz! :-) - Steven (sjh [at] idm.com) --------------------------- http://www.stagelights.info ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 08:55:51 -0400 From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Safety provisions (was Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions) In-Reply-To: References:

I have known of theatres that hire a couple of off-duty firefighters (at a very reasonable rate) to be on the premises whenever the smoke alarm is disabled? These firefighter job is to evaluate ongoing potential problems and ensure that the situation is safe. Plus, in the event of a fire, the firefighters are fully trained to deal with it. -Delbert On 5/19/06, Bruce Purdy wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > As part of his level headed post on Fire curtains, Delbert said: > > > Smoke alarms must be disabled from time to time to allow > > for pyro. When they are, other provisions must be enacted to assure > > the safety of the audience. The "rule" is not what is important. > > Protecting the audience is. > > This raises another interesting question: We have to turn off our smok= e > detectors in the auditorium and stage areas whenever fog or haze is used. > Other than notifying the fire department, and NO pyro - "Not even a candl= e" > - what other safety provisions would be appropriate? > > Having stagehands standing by with fire extinguishers doesn't seem as > appropriate a provision in this situation as if a fire effect was being > used. Just curious - does anyone have standard safety plans in this > situation? > > Bruce > -- > Bruce Purdy > Technical Director > Smith Opera House > > > --=20 Delbert L. Hall ZFX Flying Director Phone: 714-585-7070 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060519144816.10771.qmail [at] web52210.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 07:48:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Marsland Subject: Good mixer type In-Reply-To: I'm a Lighting Cat, and especially a managerial-type. I always say that there are sound folks to do sound, that I am not one of them, and that I feel good about getting my home stereo working almost all the time. Paul > engineers. Lighting Cats and Carp Dudes, and > especially managerial-types, > think that because they have a really cool stereo at > home, with > surround-sound, and they know what all the buttons > do (sort of), that they > know what they're doing with sound. I've had __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <446DDBCD.6080300 [at] gmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 10:53:01 -0400 From: Robert Graham Reply-To: photonguide [at] gmail.com Subject: Re: TElrad Sight References: In-Reply-To: Not sure if its the same on, but I'd guess that it probably is. Try Production Advantage. There's one found listed here: http://www.productionadvantageonline.com/followspot.htm#PARTS ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060519151017.8000.qmail [at] web52204.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 08:10:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Marsland Subject: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In-Reply-To: Hey Todd, Don't you have a deluge curtain at HPT rather than a straight up fire curtain? I would think your rules could be more flexible if that is still the case, and that 1% of violation you mention wouldn't be an issue. We regularly experience shows that in our mind (and the AHJ's mind) require a fire watch official (typically an off-duty, high- ranking local fireperson); the shows might require - live flame - pyro effects of almost any kind - some blocking of the fire curtain path of travel - obstructing the emergency exits for some reason - fog or haze in our newer venues requiring us to disable the sensing and alarm system Paul > Hi All, > > I have a need for some additional opinions regarding > our Fire Curtain > Policy. This group is about as opinionated as they > come, so I am > expecting some good responses!! > > As it stands, the policy basically states that the > fire curtain must not > be impeded by anything should it need to come in. > > We abide by this rule 99% of the time, but have > occasionally bent it a bit > if a lightweight prop, barstool, dining chair, etc. > needs to be set in > its way for a short period of time. The basis > behind this is that either > the item will be crushed, or a nearby actor will > move it if the curtain is > headed in. > > I have two questions for the group: > > First, is any bending of the rule too much? Do we > in the industry hold > this line, or is it judgment call at times? > > Secondly, if the curtain is to be impeded or > blocked, is there an > alternative means of audience protection you have > used - a fire watch, big > red truck idling at the back door, etc. > > At this point, I am gather information for my boss > and other parties > involved. I'd appreciate any comments, suggestions, > horror stories you > care to pass along, either on or off the list. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: rwhitco [at] comcast.net (Randy Whitcomb) Subject: Re: Safety provisions (was Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 15:29:32 +0000 Message-Id: <051920061529.29664.446DE45C0004E6E7000073E02207020853010C9B0708999D [at] comcast.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Bruce Purdy > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > This raises another interesting question: We have to turn off our smoke > detectors in the auditorium and stage areas whenever fog or haze is used. > Other than notifying the fire department, and NO pyro - "Not even a candle" > - what other safety provisions would be appropriate? > Our FM has authorized the use of a fire watch when the aud. systems are off line. We have heat, smoke and beam detectors. We have a sheet that describes the duties of that person. They don't need to be a fire professional. Just 18 and understand that they're only function is fire watch that evening. There's also a log they must sign at the end of each hourly patrol. Randy Whitcomb Manager/TD Price Civic Aud. Loveland, CO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 08:47:56 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Speaking of weapons. In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060519084249.01f1d020 [at] interstellar.com> References: At 04:34 AM 5/19/2006, Dale Farmer wrote: > Someone told me about how they did an explosion gag for a > corporate event recently, which doesn't require fire department assistance. First, by current definitions, an explosive is "anything that can be made to explode", you could find yourself on the evening news for making IEDs (improvised explosive devices). > Noise and shrapnel from bottle are contained and absorbed by the > metal bin and the packing peanuts. No pyro, smoke, etc to deal > with requiring licenses or special preparation. Only drawback is > not being able to cue it very accurately. There are dangers to > this method, but they ought to be easily manageable with clueful > stagecrew. Thought folks here would be interested. This is HIGHLY dangerous. The bottle can explode at any time, the shrapnel from it can cause severe injury. Try a Google search on "injury from dry ice bomb", there's a particularly graphic picture of a guy with a deep, bleeding imprint of the bottle cap in his forehead. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 12:00:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Speaking of weapons. From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Anyone gonna guess what kind of a bottle the cap came from? Bill S. ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 5/19/06 11:47 AM, "Jerry Durand" wrote: > Try a Google search on > "injury from dry ice bomb", there's a particularly graphic picture of > a guy with a deep, bleeding imprint of the bottle cap in his forehead. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 09:01:59 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060519085647.01efd1c0 [at] interstellar.com> References:

I'm still trying to understand a question I asked some time ago. The fire curtain discussion has brought it up again... A person standing (or even laying on the stage) directly in the path of the fire curtain is ok because it's assumed he'll move out of the way if there's a fire. A person standing near an exit door is considered to be blocking the door because it's assumed he WON'T move out of the way if there's a fire. My rephrased question is why is a person on stage assumed to be smarter than a person standing near an exit door? -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 09:05:55 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Speaking of weapons. In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060519090521.01f24008 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 09:00 AM 5/19/2006, Bill Sapsis wrote: >Anyone gonna guess what kind of a bottle the cap came from? I'd say 2-liter. Can't tell the brand and if it was diet or not. :) -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 12:16:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: The person standing under the fire curtain doesn't have the rest of the audience, cast members and staff running directly at him/her???? Bill S. ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 5/19/06 12:01 PM, "Jerry Durand" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I'm still trying to understand a question I asked some time ago. The > fire curtain discussion has brought it up again... > > A person standing (or even laying on the stage) directly in the path > of the fire curtain is ok because it's assumed he'll move out of the > way if there's a fire. > > A person standing near an exit door is considered to be blocking the > door because it's assumed he WON'T move out of the way if there's a fire. > > My rephrased question is why is a person on stage assumed to be > smarter than a person standing near an exit door? ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Peter Scheu" Cc: jdurand [at] interstellar.com Subject: RE: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 12:23:28 -0400 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: In-reply-to: Jerry Durand asked: >My rephrased question is why is a person on stage assumed to be=20 >smarter than a person standing near an exit door? Good question. I tend to think sheep & shepherds... (no, not THAT = way!!!). One might postulate that (and this is purely a stream of conscience = thing here - please don't consider this fact or a true belief) the actor (or = crew) on stage is trained to be there, is aware of their surroundings, is = aware of emergency procedures (at least in a perfect world), and is "acting" in a controlled situation. Hey, even Eddie Foy was giving direction to the audience at the Iroquois (albeit the wrong one - "Stay in your seats!"). Average audience members standing in front of exits during a performance = are not as such. They would have to be directed by ushers (i.e. trained personnel). Just a thought... Peter Scheu =20 Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Syracuse, NY www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 09:30:25 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060519092830.011c0898 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 09:16 AM 5/19/2006, Bill Sapsis wrote: >The person standing under the fire curtain doesn't have the rest of the >audience, cast members and staff running directly at him/her???? That's true, but the patron in the last row who just stood up into the isle does. Also, since this applies to office buildings, too, there's normally not much of an audience there. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 12:36:42 -0400 From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In-Reply-To: References:

Jerry asked: > A person standing (or even laying on the stage) directly in the path > of the fire curtain is ok because it's assumed he'll move out of the > way if there's a fire. > > A person standing near an exit door is considered to be blocking the > door because it's assumed he WON'T move out of the way if there's a fire. > > My rephrased question is why is a person on stage assumed to be > smarter than a person standing near an exit door? Jerry, I liked the way you phrased this question. I don't think it as a matter of being "smarter" it is a matter that the person on the stage is presumed to be "trained" as to what to do in case of a fire, whereas the "untrained" audience member is not. The same logic actually applies to the firecurtain. It is acceptable (indeed regulated) to trap the "trained" actors and technicians backstage behind the firecurtain in order to protect the "untrained" audience. It is presumed that the "trained" actors and technicians will not panic and will be able to find their ways out of a burning theatre better than the "untrained" audience. Of course this is a presumption and it is just as likely that at least some people backstage will panic and will get disoriented in the smoke trapped backstage by the firecurtain and will die. But, the firecurtain is not designed to protect the actors or technicians (if you exclude the technician in the booth at the rear of the house). So, be sure you know the fastest way out of your theatre in case of fire. -Delbert --=20 Delbert L. Hall ZFX Flying Director Phone: 714-585-7070 ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Peter Scheu" Subject: RE: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 12:41:04 -0400 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: In-reply-to: >>The person standing under the fire curtain doesn't have the >rest of the >>audience, cast members and staff running directly at him/her???? > >That's true, but the patron in the last row who just stood up into >the isle does. I think, ultimately, the question is asked in a vacuum and may not be answerable. Circumstances will dictate the correct answer. Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Syracuse, NY www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 10:47:08 -0600 Message-ID: <00e601c67b63$de89a820$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-reply-to: Perhaps because of the timing of the fire curtain coming in .... we have only five foot conductors. Nah! I have in my short lifetime, 77 years, seen, observed, known of fire curtains, that come in of their own accord ... who knew? Lucky they are not European fire curtains which are made of steel. Dr. doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Sapsis Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 10:17 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- The person standing under the fire curtain doesn't have the rest of the audience, cast members and staff running directly at him/her???? Bill S. ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile Join the Long Reach Long Riders on their 3rd annual cross country charity motorcycle ride. On 5/19/06 12:01 PM, "Jerry Durand" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I'm still trying to understand a question I asked some time ago. The > fire curtain discussion has brought it up again... > > A person standing (or even laying on the stage) directly in the path > of the fire curtain is ok because it's assumed he'll move out of the > way if there's a fire. > > A person standing near an exit door is considered to be blocking the > door because it's assumed he WON'T move out of the way if there's a fire. > > My rephrased question is why is a person on stage assumed to be > smarter than a person standing near an exit door? ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 09:51:21 -0700 From: NODEraser Reply-To: greg [at] hypersoft.zzn.com Subject: Re: stopping a telemarketer In-Reply-To: References: On 5/18/06, ladesigners [at] juno.com wrote: > For long distance stopping power against telemarketers, a .357 Magnum wor= ks fine, but the newer .475 Magnum is even better at that distance. > /s/ Richard You're saying that the bullet will travel all the way to India from the west coast? ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Safety provisions (was Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 10:52:49 -0600 Message-ID: <00ea01c67b64$a9dfa470$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-reply-to: "have to turn off ...." No. You deem to do this because you do not want the fog and haze to set off the sensors .. The sheet of directions and authorizations is an excellent idea and policy. All who work in any fashion on the stage or have anything to do with the stage must be trained, shall be trained, or not be on the stage. Fire Watch, et al, are all part of the total fire protection system which every theater must have. Sounds like you have all the bases covered, but in my limited experience, you may be in the minute minority. Dr. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Randy Whitcomb Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 9:30 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Safety provisions (was Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions) For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Bruce Purdy > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > This raises another interesting question: We have to turn off our smoke > detectors in the auditorium and stage areas whenever fog or haze is used. > Other than notifying the fire department, and NO pyro - "Not even a candle" > - what other safety provisions would be appropriate? > Our FM has authorized the use of a fire watch when the aud. systems are off line. We have heat, smoke and beam detectors. We have a sheet that describes the duties of that person. They don't need to be a fire professional. Just 18 and understand that they're only function is fire watch that evening. There's also a log they must sign at the end of each hourly patrol. Randy Whitcomb Manager/TD Price Civic Aud. Loveland, CO ------------------------------ From: rwhitco [at] comcast.net (Randy Whitcomb) Cc: peter [at] scheuconsulting.com Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 16:56:53 +0000 Message-Id: <051920061656.23153.446DF8D50006BEF500005A712206999735010C9B0708999D [at] comcast.net> -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Peter Scheu" > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- J > Average audience members standing in front of exits during a performance are > not as such. They would have to be directed by ushers (i.e. trained > personnel). My experience is that when an alarm sounds the audience will assume its a false alarm and that it wil be turned off soon so they just need to stay put. They need to be told to leave the building and to use all the exits. They ask if its real. My reply is "Yes it is a real alarm and we need to leave. Now." Randy Whitcomb Manager/TD Price Civic Aud. Loveland, CO ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Cc: peter [at] scheuconsulting.com Cc: bill [at] bcaworld.com ('Bill Conner') Subject: RE: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 11:04:05 -0600 Message-ID: <00f301c67b66$3d122dc0$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-reply-to: Let me give you the example of the Acton High School Fire. Even though the fire curtain only came in and stopped three or four feet from the floor, when a fire was lit on stage by students, the school was able to be evacuated, and the fire curtain basically contained the fire to the stage area. I say basically, because there was damage in the auditorium. In that many school auditoriums in reality in this country often serve, daily, as study halls, this fire curtain assisted in a small way to protect others. I do not know if this meets your criteria Bill, but I know it comes close. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Peter Scheu Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 6:36 AM To: Stagecraft Cc: 'Bill Conner' Subject: Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Bill Conner wrote: >Third, I still have the unanswered challenge out there for an >example of where a fire safety curtain saved a life or lessened injury >from fire in a theatre in this country. If you add sprinklered theatre - as all are >required to be but aren't - I'm pretty certain there isn't an >example to be had. Picky, picky, picky. ;-) I'd support Bill's efforts to make changes in codes that may effectively end the "fire curtain era" by using alternate means (i.e. sprinklers, smoke evac, etc.). But as long as FC's are still required by codes, they should be reliable and meet certain standards. But the alternate systems don't stop debris from falling into the audience chamber. Unless you install Pratt & Whitney exhaust fans and suck all the scenery out and let the debris fall on the cars and escaping audience members in the parking lot. Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Syracuse, NY www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Cc: bill [at] bcaworld.com ('Bill Conner') Subject: RE: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 11:13:04 -0600 Message-ID: <00f901c67b67$7dd64480$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-reply-to: Bill is correct, it is not in the Code. Reasonableness would seem to be in order here, however in the flurry of production at different levels of theater, schools, etc. the supervision, the attention to detail is often missing and not even thought of. With the properly engineered mechanical system in a theater (where there is one??) the evacuation from the ventilation might be the answer, as Bill poses. I would take months to go through my thousands of files to find an example of what Bill says may have never occurred, but I believe there are some. Moot at this point. I back Mr. Connor from my official position in Safety to push for Smoke Management Systems that are workable and professional as stated in the Life Safety Code. I cannot completely do away with the fire curtains in so many facilities, yet, but that maybe coming. Yes, always work with and educate with accurate information, the AHJ. Dr. doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Conner Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 6:20 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Peter S's points are right on but a few comments may be interesting. First, closing to the stage floor when the stage is in use is perhaps implied but not called out in the existing codes. Second, there is pretty good and accepted documentation that even if the fire safety curtain only closes part way (or not at all in some cases) the draft of stage ventilation is sufficient to protect the audience. Third, I still have the unanswered challenge out there for an example of where a fire safety curtain saved a life or lessened injury from fire in a theatre in this country. If you add sprinklered theatre - as all are required to be but aren't - I'm pretty certain there isn't an example to be had. As an aside, I solicit your support of a proposed change to the International Building Code to permit smoke management systems (engineered mechanical exhaust) in place of fire safety curtains. This is already permitted by the NFPA and the Life Safety Code. So, as Peter suggests, work with your ahj for approved temporary modifications and consider working for modernization of regulations overall. Like buggy whips and firemen on locomotives, it may be time. Bill C. ASTC, ETCP CR-T ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Safety provisions (was Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions) Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 11:16:31 -0600 Message-ID: <00fa01c67b67$f95e1ba0$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-reply-to: Fire Extinguishers are a secondary fire prevention method. Knowing when and how to use them, and having the training and judgment to know when and how is the key. Too may fire extinguishers I find, sadly, are not properly charged or timely charged, and are blocked in theaters, and I would have to state, candidly, in every single theater I have been in in my short span on the planet. I am sure you will disagree but so be it. The path to the fire extinguisher must be fully open at all times. Dr. doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Purdy Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 6:07 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Safety provisions (was Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions) For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- As part of his level headed post on Fire curtains, Delbert said: > Smoke alarms must be disabled from time to time to allow > for pyro. When they are, other provisions must be enacted to assure > the safety of the audience. The "rule" is not what is important. > Protecting the audience is. This raises another interesting question: We have to turn off our smoke detectors in the auditorium and stage areas whenever fog or haze is used. Other than notifying the fire department, and NO pyro - "Not even a candle" - what other safety provisions would be appropriate? Having stagehands standing by with fire extinguishers doesn't seem as appropriate a provision in this situation as if a fire effect was being used. Just curious - does anyone have standard safety plans in this situation? Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 11:18:57 -0600 Message-ID: <00fb01c67b68$503b8110$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-reply-to: I do not know how many of you are involved in litigation. If the Code states the fire curtain must be such and such, and that nothing can block it .... my stand would be that you have no edge to move that judgment any place else. You might ask Richard, he certainly has handled more cases than I have. Dr. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Delbert Hall Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 5:39 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Several years ago I was doing a flying effect at the Blumenthal North Carolina PAC in Charlotte. For this production the orchestra (the Charlotte Symphony) was onstage, upstage of the set. They required more space than the scenic designer had originally provided and that forced the set to have to be moved downstage, causing the turntable to break the fire curtain by about 15 inches. The fire marshall, of course, interviened. He agreed to let the production continue if the company built small platforms (the height of the turntable) from steel studs and covered with dryway that would fill the "gap" all the way across the proscenium, and could demonstrate that they could put them in place and lower the fire curtain within 60 seconds, IIRC. The units were stored directely upstage of the proscenium and technicians were assigned and trained on how to put them in place. I remember that demonstration very well - stagehands carrying out the units, putting them in place, and the fire curtain coming in and sealing the proscenium opening, while being timed by the fire marshall. The fire marshall approved the solution and the show went on as scheduled. I do not see any difference between this situation and assigning a stagehand to move a chair or stool out of path of the fire curtain, if necessary. Smoke alarms must be disabled from time to time to allow for pyro. When they are, other provisions must be enacted to assure the safety of the audience. The "rule" is not what is important. Protecting the audience is. If you can protect the audience despite violating the firecurtain rule, you are still doing your job. Todd is obviously concerned about protecting the audience in his theatre. He makes a point of always determining if a firecurtain issue exist and tries to prevent it at all possible costs. When it is not reasonably possible, he devises a solution that provides for the safety of the audience. In my opinion, Todd is doing his job. I have worked with Todd on a couple of occasions. Todd is an excellent TD and I trust his judgement in these situations. Let's face it, there are a lot of proscenium theatres that do not have fire curtains, or where the firecurtains do not operate. I inspected a theatre in January where someone had stacked a few extra weights on the firecurtain's arbor preventing it from lowering when the fireline was broken. The fix was simple, remove the extra weights, but the fact was that the problem had probably existed for many years. Fire curtains are greatly misunderstood. Dan Culhane had an excellent article on firecurtins in a recent issue of TD&T. It is certainly well worth reading. OK, that my opinion. -Delbert -- Delbert L. Hall ZFX Flying Director Phone: 714-585-7070 ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <300.56dce86.319f5883 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:21:07 EDT Subject: Re: Good mixer type In a message dated 19/05/06 00:11:08 GMT Daylight Time, billn [at] peak.org writes: > > And, in my personal opinion, it is a waste of space. > > I suppose you feel the same way about your theatre's light board, since it > has a moving light panel. I never quite know what I am going to find. Things change with little consultation. The last one we bought was an ARRI (now ETC), whose model name I do not remember. The one I last found was also an ETC, but with two monitor rather than one. Yes, id does have a moving lights facility. Had its acquisition been discussed, I should have spoken against it, since we own no such lights. One of our members either owns some, or has access to them. Since they clutter up the lighting bridges, and need a chain hoist to get them in or out, I find them something of a nuisance. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <42a.18bdf9c.319f58ff [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:23:11 EDT Subject: Re: stopping a telemarketer In a message dated 19/05/06 00:51:33 GMT Daylight Time, ladesigners [at] juno.com writes: > For long distance stopping power against telemarketers, a .357 Magnum works > fine, but the newer .475 Magnum is even better at that distance. I'ld settle for a Lee-Enfield .303. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <42d.17bd488.319f5a07 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:27:35 EDT Subject: Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In a message dated 19/05/06 01:39:36 GMT Daylight Time, jdurand [at] interstellar.com writes: > Also, people standing in doorways are considered to be obstructing > the door. Wouldn't it follow that an actor standing under the fire > curtain would also be obstructing it? Not for very long! UK fire curtains weigh some tons, and are of rigid steel and fireproofing material. Of course, this would lead to other liability problems. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:32:41 -0400 Subject: Re: stopping a telemarketer From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: The type of rifle used by Aircraftman Shaw in Iraq in the early '30's. Hey, Frank, got any good sources of photos of the RAF troops in Iraq in the '30's. We're doing a play about Lawrence and we're looking for photos of the Flying Boat guys from that period. I've exhausted all the internet sources. Thanks, Steve > From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com > Reply-To: "Stagecraft" > Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:23:11 EDT > To: "Stagecraft" > Subject: Re: stopping a telemarketer > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 19/05/06 00:51:33 GMT Daylight Time, ladesigners [at] juno.com > writes: > >> For long distance stopping power against telemarketers, a .357 Magnum works >> fine, but the newer .475 Magnum is even better at that distance. > > I'ld settle for a Lee-Enfield .303. > > Frank Wood ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Will Roger's Stairs Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 11:35:20 -0600 Message-ID: <012801c67b6a$9a0fe2c0$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-reply-to: Electroluminescent lighting ... is excellent for this application. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of David Wilson Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 7:24 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Will Roger's Stairs For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- What's the secret to searching the archives? I keep getting a server not responding error- We're renting the set from the national tour of Will Roger's follies that's closing this month. It was refitted with Versatubes in the stairs for this last tour, fed by video. Unfortunately the versatubes were sold to someone else when the tour comes down, and I'm looking for other options. The last time I did it I had to use rope light, as the only thing I could afford in the budget. Has anyone had success with side emiting fiber optics for this - are they bright enough? This is a 45-50' staircase, I'm assuming at least 1 illuminator per side, probably 3 zones of 3 or 4 stairs each. From the pics I've seen of the set, the stair riser is not translucent, so lighting needs to be surface mounted on the face of the riser. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060519181612.24599.qmail [at] web52215.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 11:16:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Marsland Subject: Melting telrads Just gaff tape them to the lens tube up near the gel frame holders. Seems like since the body is cast aluminum and the lens tube is spun aluminum, the only place to stick them with magnets is the yoke -- well no wonder they're melting! Paul > Subject: Melting telrads > From: Steve Shelley > Message-ID: > In-Reply-To: > > Hi folks; > > We're teching a new opera down here at the spoleto > festival. > > Currently we've got source 4-10 degree ERS with a > city theatrical handle on > the tail. Telrads magnetically attached to the side > of the body (exactly how > I'm not certain). > > Bottom line is: the report that "the telrads are > melting". > > ???? > > Any thoughts how to prevent further damage to the > borrowed telrads? > > TIA > > Shelley > > -- > Steve Shelley > Ltg & Scenic Coordinator > Spoleto Festival USA > (843) 720-1140 prod office > (843) 724-1195 fax > MrTemplate [at] Earthlink.net > www.spoletousa.org > Www.fieldtemplate.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 14:44:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Melting telrads From: Steve Shelley Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Thanks paul. Frankly i'm not certain of all the details. We're in castle-storming mode here today; open in a week. But I forward to mizell and company and let them fly. Shelley On 5/19/06 2:16 PM, "Paul Marsland" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Just gaff tape them to the lens tube up near the gel > frame holders. Seems like since the body is cast > aluminum and the lens tube is spun aluminum, the only > place to stick them with magnets is the yoke -- well > no wonder they're melting! > > Paul > >> Subject: Melting telrads >> From: Steve Shelley >> Message-ID: >> In-Reply-To: >> >> Hi folks; >> >> We're teching a new opera down here at the spoleto >> festival. >> >> Currently we've got source 4-10 degree ERS with a >> city theatrical handle on >> the tail. Telrads magnetically attached to the side >> of the body (exactly how >> I'm not certain). >> >> Bottom line is: the report that "the telrads are >> melting". >> >> ???? >> >> Any thoughts how to prevent further damage to the >> borrowed telrads? >> >> TIA >> >> Shelley >> >> -- >> Steve Shelley >> Ltg & Scenic Coordinator >> Spoleto Festival USA >> (843) 720-1140 prod office >> (843) 724-1195 fax >> MrTemplate [at] Earthlink.net >> www.spoletousa.org >> Www.fieldtemplate.com > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com -- Steve Shelley Ltg & Scenic Coordinator Spoleto Festival USA (843) 720-1140 prod office (843) 724-1195 fax MrTemplate [at] Earthlink.net www.spoletousa.org Www.fieldtemplate.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 20:02:11 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: Speaking of weapons. References:

In-Reply-To: In message , Jerry Durand writes >This is HIGHLY dangerous. The bottle can explode at any time, the >shrapnel from it can cause severe injury. Try a Google search on >"injury from dry ice bomb", there's a particularly graphic picture of a >guy with a deep, bleeding imprint of the bottle cap in his forehead. Http://www.dryiceinfo.com/fog.htm -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060519121427.00d3edf0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 12:14:27 From: CB Subject: RE: Richard's Fotos > Sorry if it sounded oddly turned. Was just trying to >clarify an earlier post. ;) Oh, no! You did fine! I was just taking a bit of a poke at the Tony's. "Sound Design Winner" has never come up there before. ; > Next time, Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060519122118.00d3edf0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 12:21:18 From: CB Subject: Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... >The infuriating thing is that about two years after Huxom's death, I was >working as a Production Assistan on a film which used guns. One of the >other crew members pointed a gun at me. I didn't freak out, I just said >in a deadly serious voice "Don't you EVER do that again." I think he got >my message. I like that you didn't freak out. That seems to be the reaction that they're looking for. I'd have calmly let him know that I consider that an attempt on my life, and would usually respond appropriately, and this was the last time he got to hear that speech. Then I discuss the deaths of Jun Huxom (who received a Darwin for his efforts) and Brandon Lee, and others. Then I escort him to his 'handlers' (director, weapons master, prop's guy) and tell them that this one needs more time-in-training till he realizes the potentiually deadly consequences of his actions. I'd *know* that he got the message. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:21:18 -0600 Message-ID: <000901c67b79$67e70350$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: Yah, the Hexum and the Brandon cases were both mine. I know what you mean. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of CB Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 12:21 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- >The infuriating thing is that about two years after Huxom's death, I was >working as a Production Assistan on a film which used guns. One of the >other crew members pointed a gun at me. I didn't freak out, I just said >in a deadly serious voice "Don't you EVER do that again." I think he got >my message. I like that you didn't freak out. That seems to be the reaction that they're looking for. I'd have calmly let him know that I consider that an attempt on my life, and would usually respond appropriately, and this was the last time he got to hear that speech. Then I discuss the deaths of Jun Huxom (who received a Darwin for his efforts) and Brandon Lee, and others. Then I escort him to his 'handlers' (director, weapons master, prop's guy) and tell them that this one needs more time-in-training till he realizes the potentiually deadly consequences of his actions. I'd *know* that he got the message. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060519130527.00d3edf0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:05:27 From: CB Subject: RE: Weapons: best practice procedures? >Chris, as a sound >guy, I'm surprised you'd suggest that *where* the sound of the shot >comes from is immaterial to the audience's "getting it"... As a sound guy, I still will opt for safety over presentation. What did someone say about sound-guys being snobs? Not to this extent, in any case... Sounds work better when they come from the place where the action comes from. Elephants work better in operas when they are real elephants. In the same vein, I'd never suggest, because papier mache elephants aren't selling, that they should be replaced with real elephants unless the real elephants come with a trainer, and the actors are correctly and professionally trained on how to act around the elephants. Lacking those, I'll settle for fakey elephants. I never said I liked it better, I just said I liked it better than winging it with blanks. Oh, and actors will practice thier moves outside of 'proscribed' training and rehearsals. I actually encourage this, and suggest half- or quarter-speed walk-throughs of the moves. This trains the brain. The bopper or the cardboard tube trains teh brain to where the weapon will be coming from. Fine tuning and muscle memory comes in the supervised training and rehearsal with the actual weapons. Method choices. I can see your point, but I prefer to rehearse the moves when time permits between rehearsals. The boppers and/or cardboard tubes aren't training for weapons handling, they are training for fight blocking. Two ways for an actor to remain un-injured during a staged fight are, one, for the weapon to go where the actor isn't, and two, for the actor to not be where the weapons goes. One is safer, two is more realistic. Bopper training is usefull if you wish to try to use the second method. (For me, anyways, YMMV.) >Also, the suggestion was made that plastic blades, while no-no for >swords, are okay for knives. That gives the impression that knives are >inherently safer, and nothing could be further from the truth. Real >steel for all, and avoid cheap spring-loaded fake plastic knives for >stabbing like the plague. I dunno about the plague. For a production where a guy gets stabbed by a knife pulled from under and overcoat or something, where the knife has very little stage time, its easier to act your way out of a situation than to replace talent with props. Again, this is an alternative to using an actual weapon. I'd never suggest using live steel without proper weapons training or a proper trainer and lots of rehearsal. If these things aren't available, I'd not have an issue with rubber or plastic knives used as an alternative. Bear in mind that this goes for a weapon with a very small part. If there is a knife fight, or a sword fight, or a gunfight, or anything that the weapons play a large and/or repetative part in the play, get a fight choreographer, stage combat designer, whatever he tends to call himself. If you 'can't afford' it or 'don't have enough time', choose different material. Some things need to be done right, and weapon safety is right at the top of the list. Paul, I don't think that we part philosophical ways on the subject. Most of my suggestions were referring to situations where there is one gunshot in the play, or a Q&D stabbing. Anything that bucklers are swashed on, or gunfire is exchanged and realism is needed will change the equation. Regardless of how you do things, real weapons need real pro's to use. Lack of availability of real pro's ,eams you use a toy gun and an off-stage sound effect, or you use a cheesy rubber knife. Safety before presentation. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060519131044.00d3edf0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:10:44 From: CB Subject: Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... > The swords >were made of 2" x 3/16" mild steel bar, I'd be far more afraid of these than real swords-without-edges. Swordmakers make swords, props guys make metal clubs. Metal clubs are far more dangerous than swords-without-edges. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060519131857.00d3edf0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:18:57 From: CB Subject: RE: Good mixer type >Some of us have to work with what we can afford, and I resent the = >implication that buying gear that is simply adequate, I've mixed on Mackies because that was all that was available. They will do the job. Each and every one of them had given me a bit of a hassle because design and construction issues that are budget related. I have no problem with horses for courses, I do have an issue with those that would suggest that the Mackie's will do everything that the pro consoles at twice teh price will do. Those folk are responsible for more Mackies being in situations that they have no business being in than guitar store salesmen. I'm saying that if you have the budget, and a professional job to do, take it a step further than the Mackie. I'd have the same attitude with someone telling a carpenter that his Accord is a good car, and of course it'll haul tools and plywood. While all of the above is true, it isn't really fair to the carp. There are far more suitable vehicles for a carp's working vehicle. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060519132858.00d3edf0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:28:58 From: CB Subject: Re: Good mixer type >Some of those people who do have a clue sound-wise happen to be generalists Mea Culpa, I never meant to denigrate Carp Dudes or Lighting Cats. The Managerial-types, that one was on purpose, though... Anyhoo, I should have said 'some' Lighting Cats and 'a few' Carp Dudes as opposed to paining everyone with that same wide brush. Yah, I've actually known dancers that could hear a less than three dB change, and there are a few videots that know stuff about sound. I am constantly amazed at how little or how much some people know about sound, and how who is which is not so easy to determine. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060519132956.00d3edf0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:29:56 From: CB Subject: Re: Good mixer type >Going by that >rule, I could use any console that was built clear back to the mid 1960. >Bill Steve, if anyone calls I'll be at Bill's... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060519133656.00d3edf0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:36:56 From: CB Subject: Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... >>Every night, there >> were splinters flying from the shields. >Then the shields were poorly designed and built - unless the splinters >were desired. They were being clubbed by nearly four pounds of steel! I'da splintered a bit as well! Were there any long-term effects on the shield-arm bones of the recipients of said beatings? Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Subject: Cutter/Draper position at UNCG Message-ID: From: Christopher Haas CEHAAS Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 16:34:11 -0400 I was asked to post this to the list. I hope everybody has a good=20 weekend. Chip Haas Technical Director Department of Theatre The University of North Carolina at Greensboro 336-334-3891 ANNOUNCEMENT=20 Anticipated SPA Full-time 12 Month Position with Benefits=20 Pattern maker/Draper-Assistant Costume Studio Supervisor=20 University of North Carolina-Greensboro=20 Theatre Department-Costume Studio=20 Position will be filled as soon as possible=20 BRIEF JOB DESCRIPTION Chief pattern maker/draper and supervisor of cutting/draping for a season=20 that produces 12 shows plus additional 4 shows during the summer.=20 Supervise and maintain costume stock and assist with supervising student=20 wardrobe running crews.=20 Assist with and help supervise student crews in wig-styling. millinery,=20 and tailoring when possible.=20 MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS B.A. liberal arts degree in Theatre with an emphasis in Design and=20 Technical Theatre, Fashion, Textiles, and/or Computer-Aided Design with=20 experience in patterning/draping and some experience working with wardrobe = running crews for theatre productions.=20 PREFERRED QUALIFICATIONS M.F.A in Costume Technology with substantial experience in historical=20 patterning/draping costumes and ability to successfully interpret a=20 variety of costume design renderings. Experience with computer-aided=20 patterning desirable.=20 AND/OR At least three to five years professional theatre production experience in = historical patterning/draping and an ability to successfully interpret a=20 variety of costume design renderings.=20 Preferred Knowledge/Skills/Abilities =B7 Strong historical patterning/draping skills and familiarity with= =20 costume stock organization and supervising wardrobe running crews.=20 =B7 Ability to pace activity at accelerated rates in order to meet=20 challenging deadlines.=20 =B7 Detail oriented, ability to work independently and with strong=20 interpersonal skills.=20 =B7 Enjoy working with students and sharing expertise.=20 For information on how to apply for this position, please see the UNCG=20 website: http://jobsearch.uncg.edu. Reference position # 13104.=20 Application deadline: June 5, 2006. If you have questions regarding the=20 application process, please call 336-334-5009. EEO/AA=20 ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Good mixer type Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 13:57:55 -0700 Message-ID: <555928311F8B2943B65FC7197942C3B70538C271 [at] es1.bsdnet.wednet.edu> From: "Storms, Randy" >I'd have the same attitude with someone >telling a carpenter that his Accord is a good car, and of course it'll = haul >tools and plywood. While all of the above is true, it isn't really = fair to >the carp. There are far more suitable vehicles for a carp's working >vehicle. __________________________ Well said; but in this analogy, where the ideal work truck might be = something like a PM5 (maybe a dually Dodge Ram Hemi?)I'd say the Mackie = would rate somewhere closer to a Chevy S-10 than a Honda Accord. = Designed for the task, but inexpensive and obviously bare bones/light = duty. =20 While it's *possible* (hell, not even hard) to spend $50K or more on an = admittedly very nice truck, does Joe Carpenter really need that much = vehicle? (...but look, Joe; it'll last you twice as long, and it comes = with tinted seat warmers...) Lemme ask you this: A not-for-profit (read: "poor") 250 seat community = theatre, whose entire sound arsenal consists of a half-dozen battered = SM58's, a couple of lavs and a CD player comes to you for a mixer to = replace their venerable Peavey (circa 1980). They do a season of three = straight plays and a small musical every year, as well as a handful of = rentals. What mixer are you gonna sell them? How about the guy with the portable DJ business? The guy who shoots wedding videos? The club (tavern) that has live "music" every other Saturday night? The university black box theatre? The dance troupe? The rehearsal studio? You know my answer. As a footnote, you'll never see *me* recommending *Behringer* gear - = crappy rip-offs, IMHO, and sold for the same price as the genuine = article. If Mackie is a Chevy, Behringer is a Yugo... Randy Storms rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <446E3372.5010606 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 17:06:58 -0400 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: Good mixer type References: In-Reply-To: CB wrote: > I'm saying that if you have the budget, and a professional job to do, take > it a step further than the Mackie. Interesting timing on this discussion. I'm currently taking some night classes in Film Studies, to get back into film production. One of the textbooks, "The Filmmaker's Handbook", has a chapter on sound editing, which heavily features Mackie products. -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Message-ID: <446E360E.90002 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 17:18:06 -0400 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... References: In-Reply-To: CB wrote: > I like that you didn't freak out. That seems to be the reaction that > they're looking for. Yes, I've found that an extremely controlled and calm reaction can be much more unnerving than a tirade (having been on the receiving end of an extreme calm from my Sergeant Major once :=) -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 22:20:55 +0100 (BST) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Good mixer type In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Fri, 19 May 2006, Jim Hyslop wrote: > classes in Film Studies, to get back into film production. One of the > textbooks, "The Filmmaker's Handbook", has a chapter on sound editing, > which heavily features Mackie products. If they are not hauled around much or sent on the road, Mackies last a lot longer - this probably applies to a permanently set up production studio. Charlie | Charlie Richmond - Richmond Sound Design - Skype: charlierichmond | | http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com "Performance for the Long Run" | ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <3ea.2ff5eb1.319f9963 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 17:57:55 EDT Subject: Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In a message dated 19/05/06 13:36:59 GMT Daylight Time, peter [at] scheuconsulting.com writes: > I'd support Bill's efforts to make changes in codes that may effectively end > the "fire curtain era" by using alternate means (i.e. sprinklers, smoke > evac, etc.). But as long as FC's are still required by codes, they should be > reliable and meet certain standards. I've said this before, and will say it again. Fire curtains, and roof vents are there for two purposes. To confine an on-stage fire to the stage area,and to prevent the combustion products from escaping into the audience area. That way, an orderly evacuation of the audience is possible. This is what they are for, to buy time. Yes, as normally implemented, they will turns the stage area into a furnace. Provided that the backstage evacuation procedures are in order, and this is seldom mentioned, this is of small consequence. I have a fear that this is not always so. A big cast musical poses problems, which I have a suspicion are seldom addressed. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <484.25ba3a.319fa556 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 18:48:54 EDT Subject: Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... In a message dated 19/05/06 21:04:29 GMT Daylight Time, psyd [at] cox.net writes: > I'd be far more afraid of these than real swords-without-edges. > Swordmakers make swords, props guys make metal clubs. Metal clubs are far > more dangerous than swords-without-edges. So was I. I was meticulous in the choreporaphy. Bu6t in the end, it is all down to the actors. They are doing it on stage. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <430.1841ed2.319fa699 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 18:54:17 EDT Subject: Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... In a message dated 19/05/06 21:30:41 GMT Daylight Time, psyd [at] cox.net writes: > >>Every night, there > >> were splinters flying from the shields. > >Then the shields were poorly designed and built - unless the splinters > >were desired. > > They were being clubbed by nearly four pounds of steel! I'da splintered a > bit as well! Were there any long-term effects on the shield-arm bones of > the recipients of said beatings? Not that I am aware of. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 20:07:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In-reply-to: Message-id: <4027.24.58.7.223.1148083677.squirrel [at] webmail.ithaca.edu> References:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Hey Todd, > > Don't you have a deluge curtain at HPT rather than a > straight up fire curtain? I would think your rules > could be more flexible if that is still the case, and > that 1% of violation you mention wouldn't be an issue. Back when I was in High Point, the rule was that we could break the plasterline, but the deck had to be constructed to allow the fire curtain to make a good seal. It made for an oddly shaped festival deck because the artistic director wanted to bring the action in towards the center, but we had to have long ramps on either side to fill in the rest of the proscenium. Ah, those were the days. Hope those old Strand 6K and 12K dimmers have been replaced (or at least refurbished). Steve L. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1159.205.215.255.225.1148085838.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 17:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... From: "Bill Nelson" >>Then the shields were poorly designed and built - unless the splinters >>were desired. > > They were being clubbed by nearly four pounds of steel! I'da splintered a > bit as well! Were there any long-term effects on the shield-arm bones of > the recipients of said beatings? I have done live steel reenactment using replica Norse longswords, which weigh about 4 pounds. The sword edges were rounded, the shields had iron rims and blows were pulled. To the audience, it appeared that full strength blows were being struck. We never had any shield splintering. Even if full strength blows had been struck, I doubt if the shields would have been damaged. We took great care to make sure the blows struck the shields. As you noted - people splinter much more easily than wood/metal. Bill ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Richard's Fotos Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 19:02:12 -0700 Message-ID: <4F817A7A53C7F448BF62014A3A91B1C00177F631 [at] sasha.cornish.edu> From: "Dave Tosti-Lane" Stephen copied in text of a message from Barb Lucas regarding the photo, = unfortunately, Barb seems to have made a typo in her note. Marjorie Bradley Kellogg received the _SCENIC_ Design Distinguished = Achievement Award for 2006, NOT the SOUND award. The Harold Burris-Meyer Distinguished Career in Sound Design award for = 2006 went to Don and Carolyn Davis, authors of what is widely considered = the seminal text on sound system design and installation, and founders = of Synergistic Audio Concepts (SynAudCON.com). Photos of these folks = can be found on the USITT Sound Commission's web page, in particular on = our news of the conference page at: http://tinyurl.com/erm4p You can see a list of all the Distinguished Career award winners on the = USITT site Awards page at: http://tinyurl.com/qjs9k Dave Tosti-Lane, Vice Commissioner for Communication, USITT Sound Commission Chair, Performance Production Cornish College of the Arts www.cornish.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060520045045.74798.qmail [at] web35305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 21:50:45 -0700 (PDT) From: June Abernathy Subject: Re: Melting Telrads Well, this subject, I'm really familiar with. Haven't had the melting problem, though. Still, my first thought would be to do what I often do, and build a standoff for the sight, to stand it away from the light. A lot of people make their own. The ones I use for the show are made with a couple of large pot magnets attached to a small piece of 1X3 about the length of the telrad. You screw a couple of long bolts (5" to 8", I would say)up through the board (You can be slick, and use these to screw the magnets in place, if you like). You enlarge the holes in the base plate of the telrad to accommodate the bolts, and put a nut below the mounting plate, and one above. (BTW - you ARE using the little mounting plate, right? Not attaching the telrad itself to the fixture? Because that could be a huge part of your problem right there.) I've also used a 1' long knife holder from a kitchen store instead of the board and pot magnets. The thing I'm referring to is essentially a piece of 1X with long magnets embedded to hold knives. In my experience, magnetic tape is not strong enough to hold a telrad. Velcro can work, if you are OK with it being stuck to your light. The stand off keeps the telrad out away from the light a little, which helps with heat, and often with not having to hug the light to use the sight. The downside to this is that the offset weight may be too much strain on your magnets, and you may have to help them hold onto the light. You can use good 'ole gaff tape, but I usually use a small ratchet strap around the light and the 1X3. Or around the lamp and the telrad base if I'm not using a standoff. Actually, even if the magnets are doing perfectly fine, I generally augment them with a ratchet strap or at least a tie just for safety, particularly if the spot is over the heads of the audience. If the offset doesn't work for you, consider putting a mouse pad or a hot pad from the kitchen between your telrad base and the light, and just ratchet strap or severely tie or tape the whole thing in place instead of magnets. Where to buy Telrads? Well, some places are more expensive than others. They are actually meant to be spotting scopes for telescopes, and can be found in telescope type stores and sites. Theatrical suppliers also often sell them. Don't pay more than about $40. I get them from my buddy Bill Walters at AFM Productions - a good price from a good guy. http://www.afm-prod.com/cgi-bin/cart.pl?mode=categoryView&category=4&nav_id=4 June Abernathy IATSE #321 (Tampa, FL) FOH Electrician The Lion King National Tour (Gazelle) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Jonathan S. Deull" Subject: Metamorphoses Pool Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 01:01:08 -0400 Message-ID: <010801c67bca$685810d0$2339020a [at] M60> Question for those who have done Metamorphoses: How big and how deep was your pool? Any advice? (I've read the threads about filtering and heating.) Thanks. Jonathan * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Jonathan S. Deull Edmund Burke School Washington, DC jdeull [at] clarktransfer.com www.clarktransfer.com/jsd.htm ------------------------------ Message-ID: <446EA672.3010804 [at] gmail.com> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 01:17:38 -0400 From: Brian James Reply-To: brianedwardjames [at] gmail.com Subject: Vectorworks Rigging Symbols For those of you that use Vectorworks and indicate motors and other hardware on the plot, have you found these resources in the WV resource database, or created your own. Are there down loadable symbol libraries with these symbols already made. I recently purchased VW and I am finding the search methods I use do not always get the expected results. Any input and hep is as always, very appreciated. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000901c67be2$4ccf57c0$6401a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" References:

Subject: Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 01:52:10 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Nelson" > As you noted - people splinter much more easily than wood/metal. > > Bill > With the reference to wood. I think this is due to a lack of fiber Rob't ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #814 *****************************