Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 30427939; Sun, 21 May 2006 03:03:00 -0700 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.6 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL,BAYES_00, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on localhost X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #815 Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 03:01:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #815 1. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by Todd Dupree 2. Re: Metamorphoses Pool by "Nancy Curran Willis" 3. Re: elephants by "Paul Guncheon" 4. Metamorphoses Pool by b Ricie 5. Re: elephants by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 6. Re: Weapons: best practice procedures? by "Paul Schreiner" 7. Re: Good mixer type by "Paul Schreiner" 8. Re: elephants by "RD" 9. Re: elephants by "Paul Puppo" 10. Re: Speaking of weapons. by CB 11. Good mixer type by CB 12. Re: Vectorworks Rigging Symbols by Joe Golden 13. Re: Vectorworks Rigging Symbols by Steve Shelley 14. Re: Good mixer type by CB 15. Re: Good mixer type by CB 16. Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... by CB 17. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Bill Conner" 18. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Bill Conner" 19. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by Jerry Durand 20. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Salvatori, Jason" 21. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Bill Conner" 22. Sound Levels by "Salvatori, Jason" 23. Re: Sound Levels by "Bill Nelson" 24. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Bill Conner" 25. Visiting Some Areas by Robert Ingram 26. Re: Good mixer type by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 27. Re: Stopping a telemarketer by 28. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "RD" 29. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 30. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "RD" 31. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "RD" 32. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 33. Re: Sound Levels by Jerry Durand 34. Re: Metamorphoses Pool by "Erik Nelson" 35. Re: elephants by Dale Farmer 36. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Peter Scheu" 37. Projection screen woes by "Ben Thoron" 38. Summer stock oppertunities by *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <446F0873.30100 [at] northstate.net> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 08:15:47 -0400 From: Todd Dupree Subject: Re:Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions References: In-Reply-To: Hi All, Thanks for the discussion - I knew I could count on you guys :) First off, I am not offended by anything said or implied. My skin has thickened up over comments at work regarding sound levels, lighting design, acting ability, and the quality of the toilet paper I put in the restrooms (all of which I have little control over!) :) When push comes to shove, I'll always err on the side of caution in a situation like this. In the current situation, the production in my space wanted to have a three-cushion sofa and a 5' wood dining room table in the fire curtain line for the entire run. We were able to remedy the situation by shifting the furniture on-stage to give us the 4" slot we needed for the curtain. In regards to a stage deck breaking the line, we do require 'filler' plugs be in place at all times as Steve remembers. BTW, the 6K's and 12K's are long gone!! Paul, you have a good memory. We do have a row of deluge heads across our proscenium and added a curtain some time ago. I guess we could consider our situation as having redundant systems? Keep up the discussion - I appreciate all input into the scenario. Todd ------------------------------ Message-ID: <077601c67c12$5afa3380$6501a8c0 [at] Downstairs> From: "Nancy Curran Willis" References: Subject: Re: Metamorphoses Pool Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 09:36:10 -0400 We're also doing a production of Metamorphoses. Jonathan, where were the threads about filtering and heating? Obviously, I'm new to this list. I tried searching the archives but couldn't get the search to work. Any ideas? Nancy Curran Willis Freelance Director Burlington, MA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan S. Deull" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 1:01 AM Subject: Metamorphoses Pool > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Question for those who have done Metamorphoses: How big and how deep was > your pool? Any advice? (I've read the threads about filtering and > heating.) > > Thanks. > Jonathan > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > Jonathan S. Deull > Edmund Burke School > Washington, DC > jdeull [at] clarktransfer.com > www.clarktransfer.com/jsd.htm > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.6.1/343 - Release Date: 5/18/2006 > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000d01c67c13$5de21bc0$0202a8c0 [at] HUNKACRAP> From: "Paul Guncheon" References: Subject: Re: elephants Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 03:43:23 -1000 <> In 1994 I and my family were chased by a rampaging elephant (who was later shot and killed by the police). We had run outside the arena where the circus was taking place after the elephant in question had crushed his trainer to death and started running towards our seats. the elephant slammed through the arena doors, through a turnstile, and came after us. We started running toward the parking lot, hoping to get some cars between us. The elephant came within 4 feet of us before turning and walking away. Simply the most terrifying time in my life, many of the resulting effects are with me to this day. I was unable to design for about a year and lost faith in my ability to make "right" decisions. Wild animals, even if trained, are still potentially dangerous. Elephants are real hard to stop too. Laters, Paul "I got here with five minutes to spare", said Tom bitterly. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060520135705.9266.qmail [at] web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 06:57:05 -0700 (PDT) From: b Ricie Subject: Metamorphoses Pool In-Reply-To: When we did Metamorphosis our pool was 10'wide 18' long and 2'deep. The pool was heated and filtered and cleaned daily. We performed in a studio theatre and built the pool on a sprung dance floor. The use of chemicals was kept to a minimum in an attempt to keep the air "clean" in the smallish room (220 seats) Hope that helps. Brian Rice 508-685-0716 b_ricie [at] yahoo.com "Blessed are the cracked: For it is they who let in the light." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 13:56:39 GMT Subject: Re: elephants Message-Id: <20060520.065739.720.27492 [at] webmail31.lax.untd.com> Especially if you have 12 of them marching across the stage during the G= rand March from Aida, and they all become excited and try to stampede wh= en the lamp in a lighting fixture explodes close to them. /s/ Richard ____________________________ Wild animals, even if trained, are still potentially dangerous. Elephants are real hard to stop too. Paul ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Weapons: best practice procedures? Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 10:23:12 -0400 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A042A9C73 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" > Paul, I don't=20 > think that we part philosophical ways on the subject. Most=20 > of my suggestions were referring to situations where there is=20 > one gunshot in the play, or a Q&D stabbing. Anything that=20 > bucklers are swashed on, or gunfire is exchanged and realism=20 > is needed will change the equation.=20 I think you're right here, Chris...definitely. I guess, as I'm fairly well-trained in fight choreography and weapons safety, that I tend to push the "ideal" situation a little more vehemently. And a lot of what you mentioned in this post (quarter/half-speed rehearsals, etc.) is exactly what I teach (and I also preach 3/4-speed as being the performance speed...gotta give the audience time to digest what's going on). Ideally, there'd be enough rehearsal time with the actual weapons for the combatants to feel as comfortable with them as if they were just an extension of their own arms. S'why I tend to not recommend substituting different materials (or boppers) except in special circumstances. My comment about cheap retractable knives kinda goes hand in hand with this. If people know that what they're swinging around or using for a quick stab isn't likely to hurt, they tend to get a little bit cavalier in their attitudes (moreso with the younger crowd). That change in attitude changes the variables, and makes injury more likely than it otherwise should be. That kill shot with a $2 plastic retractable knife gets *real* force behind it, because the actor expects the blade to retract...but when that $2 knife lives up to its cost and acts like a $2 knife--and *doesn't* retract correctly--people get hurt. Use the real thing, and the respect for its potential to injure is more likely to be always present. And that's a bigger boost to safety than anything else. ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Good mixer type Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 10:24:13 -0400 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A042A9C74 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" > Mea Culpa, I never meant to denigrate Carp Dudes or Lighting=20 > Cats. The Managerial-types, that one was on purpose,=20 > though... Anyhoo, I should have said 'some' Lighting Cats and=20 > 'a few' Carp Dudes as opposed to paining everyone with that=20 > same wide brush. =20 S'okay, no real offense taken. Consider it a gentle public reminder... :) ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: elephants Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 10:22:19 -0600 Message-ID: <00d901c67c29$918f0350$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: When helping to develop the Guidelines for the Use of Animals in Television commercials and in the movie shoots, we discovered many, many concerns that had not surfaced before, and animals on stage, well, they can be dangerous, as was stated. Having dealt with elephants, tigers, panthers, monkeys, snakes, etc. on stage and in film, I can agree with Richard, you can never be too careful. Dr. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of ladesigners [at] juno.com Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 7:57 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: elephants For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Especially if you have 12 of them marching across the stage during the Grand March from Aida, and they all become excited and try to stampede when the lamp in a lighting fixture explodes close to them. /s/ Richard ____________________________ Wild animals, even if trained, are still potentially dangerous. Elephants are real hard to stop too. Paul ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3998154b0605201120k2ac0138ej5168be95bf6c0dcd [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:20:27 -0700 From: "Paul Puppo" Subject: Re: elephants In-Reply-To: References:

On 5/20/06, RD wrote: > snakes, etc. on stage and in film,In college I worked a production of Car= nival and we had a heafty 4" (diameter) python for "atmosphere/set dressing." I liked to hold it backstge when I wasn't working. Mostly because the others were to scared. One day, I had the snake on my sholders and from the wing I noticed some minor technical problem on the other side of the stage, and being a consumate professional, I was concerned. The snake sensed my excitment and reacted... I wasn't afraid of the snake, but the snake didn't know that... I was never in any real danger, it was mostly funny, in a "Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom" way. Paul Puppo ILLUMINEERING http://www.Nifty-Gadgets.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060520114508.00d444d0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:45:08 From: CB Subject: RE: Speaking of weapons. >Fill a discarded plastic soda pop bottle with an inch or >two of liquid nitrogen, Liquid nitrogen can be a bear to get hold of, but could be replaced with a few small chunks of dry ice and a cup of water. I've discovered that crushoing the bottle before capping it gives it a bit of expansion room so that you don't have to fight the outpouring 'fog' under pressure to get the cap secure. > Only drawback is not being >able to cue it very accurately. We've done it by firing a pellet gun at it. Anything that strikes it pointedly after it gets to pressure will set it off. Kinda like a balloon. Solenoid, alarm clock with a sticl tied to the ringer, you know... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060520115122.00d444d0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 11:51:22 From: CB Subject: Good mixer type >I'm a Lighting Cat, and especially a managerial-type. >I always say that there are sound folks to do sound, >that I am not one of them, This is a valuable tool. For you, and for others. Knowing what you know is a good thing. Knowing what you *don't* know is a godsend. Didn't someone post the 'He who knows, but knows not that he knows' bit the other day? Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Joe=20Golden?= Subject: RE: Vectorworks Rigging Symbols Date: 20 May 2006 12:01:15 -0700 Message-ID: For motors and points I make my own, for truss I convert dxf from the = truss manufacturer. You can email me off list for more details. Joe Golden Sent from my Treo -----Original Message----- From: Brian James Date: 5/19/06 10:18 pm To: Stagecraft Subj: Vectorworks Rigging Symbols For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- For those of you that use Vectorworks and indicate motors and other hardware on the plot, have you found these resources in the WV resource database, or created your own. Are there down loadable symbol libraries with these symbols already made. I recently purchased VW and I am finding the search methods I use do not= always get the expected results. Any input and hep is as always, very appreciated. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 15:10:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Vectorworks Rigging Symbols From: Steve Shelley Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I would be interested in seeing anyone's rigging symbols. I've been trying to make a plastic rigging template and a library of vectorworks rigging symbols for some time. If you have any you wish to share please email them to me off list. Thanks. shelley On 5/20/06 3:01 PM, "Joe Golden" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > For motors and points I make my own, for truss I convert dxf from the truss > manufacturer. You can email me off list for more details. > > Joe Golden > Sent from my Treo > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian James > Date: 5/19/06 10:18 pm > To: Stagecraft > Subj: Vectorworks Rigging Symbols > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > For those of you that use Vectorworks and indicate motors and other > hardware on the plot, have you found these resources in the WV resource > database, or created your own. > > > Are there down loadable symbol libraries with these symbols already made. > > I recently purchased VW and I am finding the search methods I use do not > always get the expected results. > > > Any input and hep is as always, very appreciated. -- Steve Shelley Ltg & Scenic Coordinator Spoleto Festival USA (843) 720-1140 prod office (843) 724-1195 fax MrTemplate [at] Earthlink.net www.spoletousa.org Www.fieldtemplate.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060520125603.00d444d0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 12:56:03 From: CB Subject: RE: Good mixer type >A not-for-profit (read: "poor") 250 seat community = >theatre, whose entire sound arsenal consists of a half-dozen battered = >SM58's, a couple of lavs and a CD player comes to you for a mixer to = >replace their venerable Peavey (circa 1980). Another Peavey. I still have a Mark III, 16 Ch. It is for sale, too, and its in great condition. While inexpensive, that thing was the Leatherman Tool and Swiss Army Knife of the audio world combined. Anything from a toy mic on the input to an amplifier output, and patch points to beat the band. Literally. Pre and post insert points (and a 1/4" jack for the in and the out for a total of four!) two monitors and two effects channels. If you needed submixes you went to the Mark IV. For the apps that you suggest, I would use the Mackie, except for the portable DJ and the university balck box, but *only if there was no budget available for anything else*! >The guy who shoots wedding videos? >The club (tavern) that has live "music" every other Saturday night? >The dance troupe? >The rehearsal studio? This is what I'm saying. You are suggesting the Mackie for areas of use where budget is more important than sound quality. The wedding guy is getting a step up from what most wedding shooters use, so that's a good thing. THe club tavern doesn't care about sound quality as much as volume, and beer sales are far more important then either. The dance troupe is all about playback, and its about the dancing. The music is secondary. the rehearsal studio? THey get a Mackie? They're replacing a boom-box that plays cassettes, so that's a move up for them too! I get it, if you need to move lumber and all you can afford is the second-hand Accord, you're gonna move lumber in the Accord. It isn't really designed for the task. Anywhere, but its what you can get. However, anywhere that the quality of the sound, and especially where versatility in the production of that sound, is important, Mackie isn't going to be on the top of my list. As I said, I do use them, and they will work. I've had one specced as the production mixer on a film, and the FOH mixer for a large and intricate corporate show. In both circumstances the end-product suffered miserably because the Mackie wasn't up to the task. They are pro-sumer. Consumer qulity with pro-styled accesories and options. Not for professional use. The subject is 'Good Mixer'. I consider them "Adequate Mixer" at best. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060520130433.00d444d0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 13:04:33 From: CB Subject: Re: Good mixer type >One of the >textbooks, "The Filmmaker's Handbook", has a chapter on sound editing, >which heavily features Mackie products. Ask for your money back? I'm guessing that Greg gave tehm a bit of a break onthe gear, or something... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060520131149.00d444d0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 13:11:49 From: CB Subject: Re: Weapons: "best practice" procedures ... >Yes, I've found that an extremely controlled and calm reaction can be >much more unnerving than a tirade Not to diminish the effect a good tirade can have. Especially when you can get your veins to bulge and you spit a little. I use them as a last straw, when only fear is left to motivate a crew or crowd. I can still remember the look of utter shock on my best buddies face when I pulled that tool outta the bag. He had never seen me use it before, and it seemed so unnatural to him. The better look was the one he got when, in the middle of my best vein-bulging, spittle punctuated tirade, I winked at him. Tirade might be effective after training, warning, punishment, and you still catch a couple of actors whacking at each other with sword in the greenroom. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: <00bd01c67c4d$abc0c0a0$6501a8c0 [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 15:40:45 -0500 Jerry D. posted : "A person standing near an exit door is considered to be blocking the door because it's assumed he WON'T move out of the way if there's a fire." I'm not sure the situation but if you mean a general rule against standees, it is more likely because of a concern for overcrowding. The means of egress for a building are designed for the occupant load - the number of people in the room. Standee's are often - usually? - a sign that the occupancy load exceeds what the building was designed for - which with fixed seating is usually the number of fixed seats. After all, in an assembly room with no fixed seats - like a ballroom - no one says you can't stand wherever you want. (They may ask you to not sit in the aisles and doors though. In fact, at the Old Globe in London, no one is permitted to sit in the "pit" area as I recall - anywhere.) The means of egress must be sufficient for the occupant load. That may be based on fixed seats or a minimum of an occupant for every so many sq ft. For instance, a ballroom is usually required to have egress sized for one person for every 7 net square feet. You can have more, but you have to means of egress for the occupant load. In other words, for that ballroom, you have to have at least enough means of egress for one person in every 7 sq ft but you may have more and the number of people admitted is not necessarily limited to one per 7 sq ft. I have on a few occasions indicated on plans standing spaces in theatres to specifically have them reviewed and approved for an occupant load greater than the seat count, acknowledging they would from time to time want to sell standing room only spaces. Bill C. ASTC, ETCP CR-T ------------------------------ Message-ID: <00c101c67c4e$c2eaaa10$6501a8c0 [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: RE: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 15:48:34 -0500 Dr Doom posted: "Perhaps because of the timing of the fire curtain coming in .... we have only five foot conductors. Nah! I have in my short lifetime, 77 years, seen, observed, known of fire curtains, that come in of their own accord ... who knew? Lucky they are not European fire curtains which are made of steel." Not wanting to impugn your stature but short is relative and you should be congratulated for having beaten the average. Bill C. ASTC, ETCP CR-T (I couldn't help myself. You can just stand between Dan Culhane and me under the fire curtain and you'll be safe.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 13:49:05 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060520134415.01f5ad78 [at] interstellar.com> References: At 01:40 PM 5/20/2006, Bill Conner wrote: >I'm not sure the situation but if you mean a general rule against standees, I originally asked because the line I was in (not in a theatre) was told to move because we were blocking the emergency exit. It was mentioned here that is correct, standing near/in a door or exit aisle is not allowed on the basis of blocking the exit. I didn't understand the reasoning then or now. It seems a person standing in a doorway would be the first one out. Now, I know standing in a doorway is blocking patron access, but this was specifically presented as life and safety code. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 16:55:51 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Salvatori, Jason" The reasoning as I see it is that the person in the=20 doorway may not be able to see the problem or even that=20 there is a problem. In my venue someone standing in the stage exit doors (leading to the backstage, then outside)=20 cannot see most of the stage, and cannot see the fire=20 curtain, due to the masking. If that person has 25=20 actors charging towards them in a panic due to an=20 emergency they are not aware of, they WILL get hurt.=20 As well as possibly blocking the egress from the stage. Jason -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Jerry Durand Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 4:49 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- At 01:40 PM 5/20/2006, Bill Conner wrote: >I'm not sure the situation but if you mean a general rule against = standees, I originally asked because the line I was in (not in a theatre) was=20 told to move because we were blocking the emergency exit. It was=20 mentioned here that is correct, standing near/in a door or exit aisle=20 is not allowed on the basis of blocking the exit. I didn't understand the reasoning then or now. It seems a person=20 standing in a doorway would be the first one out. Now, I know standing in a doorway is blocking patron access, but this=20 was specifically presented as life and safety code. --=20 Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand _________________________________________________________________________= _ This e-mail, including any attachment(s), may be confidential and is = intended solely for the attention and information of the named = addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient or have received = this message in error, please notify me immediately by return e-mail and = permanently delete the original transmission from your computer, = including any attachment(s). Any unauthorized distribution, disclosure = or copying of this message and attachment(s) by anyone other than the = recipient is strictly prohibited. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <00c501c67c50$8ab4a400$6501a8c0 [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: RE: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 16:01:18 -0500 Dr. Doom posted: "Let me give you the example of the Acton High School Fire. Even though the fire curtain only came in and stopped three or four feet from the floor, when a fire was lit on stage by students, the school was able to be evacuated, and the fire curtain basically contained the fire to the stage area. I say basically, because there was damage in the auditorium. In that many school auditoriums in reality in this country often serve, daily, as study halls, this fire curtain assisted in a small way to protect others. I do not know if this meets your criteria Bill, but I know it comes close." I don't either because there is too much about it I don't know: sprinklers, stage ventilation, occupied theatre, location and source of ignition, combustible load, construction type, and so on. I'm always skeptical of what "could" happen, especially if it hasn't. The kid leaving the building could be hit by the fire truck. People at Columbine could have been saved if the fire curtain was steel. There could have been no one injured or killed at the Iroquois if the vents had been operational or the building had been sprinklered. Bill C. ASTC, ETCP CR-T ------------------------------ Subject: Sound Levels Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 17:06:11 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Salvatori, Jason" Here's a question I'd like an opinion on: Whenever we run a show, I limit the sound levels for safety reasons. I follow the OHSA (occupational=20 health and safety act) regs for maximum level for=20 the duration of the show. BUT, what happens when=20 you can't control the level? As I'm writing this=20 I have 16 Taiko drums and 4 sets of symbols on=20 stage, and my Smaart rig is reading 106dB in the=20 centre of the house. As far as I know there's no=20 way to make these instruments any quieter... Any=20 advice (I'm sure it will be too late for this show,=20 but ideas for the future will help) Thanks, Jason Salvatori Technical Director City Playhouse Phone: 905-326-7469 Fax: 905-882-7949 _________________________________________________________________________= _ This e-mail, including any attachment(s), may be confidential and is = intended solely for the attention and information of the named = addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient or have received = this message in error, please notify me immediately by return e-mail and = permanently delete the original transmission from your computer, = including any attachment(s). Any unauthorized distribution, disclosure = or copying of this message and attachment(s) by anyone other than the = recipient is strictly prohibited. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4305.205.215.255.225.1148160875.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 14:34:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Sound Levels From: "Bill Nelson" > the duration of the show. BUT, what happens when > you can't control the level? As I'm writing this > I have 16 Taiko drums and 4 sets of symbols on > stage, and my Smaart rig is reading 106dB in the > centre of the house. As far as I know there's no > way to make these instruments any quieter... Any > advice (I'm sure it will be too late for this show, > but ideas for the future will help) If it is 106dbA at center, it will be roughly 109 dBA, halfway between center and the sound source. Keep in mind that 110 dBA is often encountered in a classical music concert, without sound reinforcement. It is also about the level of someone shouting in your ear. The percussion section of a symphony can reach 130 dBA. So the sound level is nothing unusual, although I would find it personally very uncomfortable. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <00c801c67c55$60aaaba0$6501a8c0 [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 16:35:55 -0500 I have to voice some exceptions to Peter S's comments on this subject. First, "The ONLY point I'm trying to make is, either one follow the rules (which are there for damn good reasons),..." Codes and standards are not perfect and there are at least some portions and requirements that are not for good reasons. I don't consider "because that's the way we've always done it" to be a good reason. When the regional codes combined, some basics were reviewed and if for instance UBC said 2 and BOCA said 4 and all the engineers and scientists said 8, the IBC will probably say 3. Some requirements are in codes and standards because manufacturers and contractors benefit from them and are successful in their efforts in code development. I'm NOT advocating disregarding or disobeying law, only that you shouldn't automatically assume that all codes and standards are sacred and infallible - or anywhere near that. Second, "IMHO, the effectiveness of a building's life safety protective systems like sprinklers, smoke vents, fire curtains, etc.) should not rely on human intervention." I believe that the record shows that human behavior during a fire or other emergency is very good and quite altruistic. The cinema, tabloid headline, and other such yellow journalism portrayal of people behaving anti-socially in emergencies is not indicated by forensic analysis of actual emergencies. As a society, we in the US are led to believe that others can do for us so we don't have to do for ourselves but if in fact the message was to be self reliant and look out for yourself and your own safety, we wouldn't have one of the poorer records for safety from fire in residential occupancies in the civilized world. Not to mention that the more complicated the mechanism and more parts the more likely it will fail. Follow the Brits example - manual release only. Not only more reliable, quicker and people get use to it and introducing personal responsibility makes someone responsible. If it's your job to close the fire curtain and your ass is on the line, you are much more likely to have checked it to be sure it will work than if it sits there and no one person is specifically responsible. Further, Randy W. points out: "My experience is that when an alarm sounds the audience will assume its a false alarm and that it wil be turned off soon so they just need to stay put. They need to be told to leave the building and to use all the exits. They ask if its real. My reply is "Yes it is a real alarm and we need to leave. Now." His observation shows what any professional crowd manger knows - that people in charge and communicating with the assembly and adjusting for the unfolding emergency is far better than automatic systems and pre-recorded announcements that can't possibly adjust as fast. The Life Safety Code recognizes this in requiring a trained crowd manager when there is an assembly - 50 or more - both assigning specific duties and personal responsibility. (That's right - you have a lecture class with 51 or more people and you are required to have a crowd manager designated. Think about that. Someone is suppose to be personally responsible for the safety of the other people in the room. This is new and part of the post-Station fire changes.) Third, "But the alternate systems don't stop debris from falling into the audience chamber." So, when has this been a hazard? It wasn't at the Iroquois or any other actual theatre fire I can find a record of. Bill C. ASTC, ETCP CR-T ------------------------------ Message-ID: <446F8D3E.8070805 [at] fishertheatrical.com> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 17:42:22 -0400 From: Robert Ingram Organization: Fisher Theatrical Subject: Visiting Some Areas Good Day Everyone, It turns our that I'm going to be in Vegas and NYC next month on business and pleasure and was wondering if anyone on the list is working on one of the Cirque shows, or Wicked (I've already got the tickets for this one) on Broadway. I would love to get a tour / backstage peek if possible, since I've never seen a show in either of these cities. Enjoy the weekend everyone. Rob Ingram Production Staff Fisher Theatrical IA Local 22 Wash D.C. ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <446.11e3c2e.31a0f31c [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 18:33:00 EDT Subject: Re: Good mixer type In a message dated 20/05/06 19:44:58 GMT Daylight Time, psyd [at] cox.net writes: > This is a valuable tool. For you, and for others. Knowing what you know > is a good thing. Knowing what you *don't* know is a godsend. Didn't > someone post the 'He who knows, but knows not that he knows' bit the other > day? I did. Ever since I learned ti at school, it has struck me as good advice. Frank Wood ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: Subject: Re: Stopping a telemarketer Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 18:37:24 -0400 From: Brian wrote: > I do not have much trouble with the telemarketers > anymore since the do no call list went into effect > however the panhandlers LOVE me. I must put off an > aura that says "this guy ain't from the city". I must > look like a walking roll of coins holding an endless > pack of smokes, cause they just about line up. Even the homeless have gone upscale. I was passing a homeless guy outside a Starbucks on 96th & Broadway a couple days ago. "Hey man," he asked me, "can you spare five bucks so I can get a coffee?" I kid you not. Cris Dopher ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Cc: bill [at] bcaworld.com ('Bill Conner') Subject: RE: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 16:40:44 -0600 Message-ID: <015501c67c5e$6ef61970$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: No sprinklers. Fire on stage from gym matt set by three students. Large amounts of combustible materials. Housekeeping atrocious. Auditorium not occupied. No security. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Conner Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 3:01 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Dr. Doom posted: "Let me give you the example of the Acton High School Fire. Even though the fire curtain only came in and stopped three or four feet from the floor, when a fire was lit on stage by students, the school was able to be evacuated, and the fire curtain basically contained the fire to the stage area. I say basically, because there was damage in the auditorium. In that many school auditoriums in reality in this country often serve, daily, as study halls, this fire curtain assisted in a small way to protect others. I do not know if this meets your criteria Bill, but I know it comes close." I don't either because there is too much about it I don't know: sprinklers, stage ventilation, occupied theatre, location and source of ignition, combustible load, construction type, and so on. I'm always skeptical of what "could" happen, especially if it hasn't. The kid leaving the building could be hit by the fire truck. People at Columbine could have been saved if the fire curtain was steel. There could have been no one injured or killed at the Iroquois if the vents had been operational or the building had been sprinklered. Bill C. ASTC, ETCP CR-T ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <38e.35333ef.31a0f68b [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 18:47:39 EDT Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In a message dated 20/05/06 21:41:25 GMT Daylight Time, bill-conner [at] att.net writes: > The means of egress must be sufficient for the occupant load. That may be > based on fixed seats or a minimum of an occupant for every so many sq ft. > For instance, a ballroom is usually required to have egress sized for one > person for every 7 net square feet. You can have more, but you have to > means of egress for the occupant load. In other words, for that ballroom, > you have to have at least enough means of egress for one person in every 7 > sq ft but you may have more and the number of people admitted is not > necessarily limited to one per 7 sq ft. These are usually laid down in the rules. So many exits, and so wide. I have the UK rules to hand, but will not bother to post them, since the US rules are probably different. Moreover, the behaviour of an audience doing a panic evacuation is not rational. Most will try to leave by the way they came in, whether this is appropriate or not. The signed exits get little use. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Cc: bill [at] bcaworld.com ('Bill Conner') Subject: RE: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 16:49:16 -0600 Message-ID: <016101c67c5f$9fc87650$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: Safe as "ouses" as they say in Beyond the Fringe. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Conner Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:49 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Dr Doom posted: "Perhaps because of the timing of the fire curtain coming in .... we have only five foot conductors. Nah! I have in my short lifetime, 77 years, seen, observed, known of fire curtains, that come in of their own accord ... who knew? Lucky they are not European fire curtains which are made of steel." Not wanting to impugn your stature but short is relative and you should be congratulated for having beaten the average. Bill C. ASTC, ETCP CR-T (I couldn't help myself. You can just stand between Dan Culhane and me under the fire curtain and you'll be safe.) ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Cc: bill [at] bcaworld.com ('Bill Conner') Subject: RE: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 16:49:16 -0600 Message-ID: <016201c67c5f$a1031930$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: Thanks but I seem to be impugned quite often, so a respite might be in order. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Conner Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2006 2:49 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Dr Doom posted: "Perhaps because of the timing of the fire curtain coming in .... we have only five foot conductors. Nah! I have in my short lifetime, 77 years, seen, observed, known of fire curtains, that come in of their own accord ... who knew? Lucky they are not European fire curtains which are made of steel." Not wanting to impugn your stature but short is relative and you should be congratulated for having beaten the average. Bill C. ASTC, ETCP CR-T (I couldn't help myself. You can just stand between Dan Culhane and me under the fire curtain and you'll be safe.) ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <438.19b3771.31a0fac9 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 19:05:45 EDT Subject: Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In a message dated 20/05/06 22:36:38 GMT Daylight Time, bill-conner [at] att.net writes: > I'm NOT advocating disregarding or disobeying law, only that > you shouldn't automatically assume that all codes and standards are sacred > and infallible - or anywhere near that. I think you are, really. You rightly recognise that many codes and standards are written by ignorant fools, who know nothing of the trade they are trying to regulate. Their ignorant, arrogant, pronouncements need to be ignored. That said, this may get you in trouble with your insurers. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 17:17:06 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Sound Levels In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060520171625.01f0ddd8 [at] interstellar.com> References: At 02:06 PM 5/20/2006, Salvatori, Jason wrote: >As far as I know there's no >way to make these instruments any quieter... Any >advice (I'm sure it will be too late for this show, >but ideas for the future will help) Put cloth bunched up in the drum. Heavy drape behind it. Pass out earplugs. :) -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 20:56:11 -0400 From: "Erik Nelson" Subject: Re: Metamorphoses Pool In-Reply-To: References: On 5/20/06, Jonathan S. Deull wrote: > Question for those who have done Metamorphoses: How big and how deep was > your pool? Any advice? In our former space at Purdue (now we have two "real" theatres) out pool had two distinct sections, dictated by the architechture. The upstage section, which was the only part actually on the stage, was 16' square and just over 6" deep. The pool then moved down into the pit where it was 32" deep. This section narrowed down to about 10' wide. Overall, the pool was 24' upstage/downstage and held about 2,700 gallons. Filtered, heated, minimally treated, cleaned every day. I highly recommend covering your pool when not in use, as we did. The cover enabled us to hit water temperatures in the 80s, even with our large surface area. Over the course of the show, when the plumbing was turned off, we lost about 6 degrees. Also, I'm sure you're aware of this, but water weight adds up quickly, so make sure the structure of the pool, as well as the building is able to handle the weight. Our weighed just over 11 tons. Good luck, Erik Nelson ------------------------------ Message-ID: <446FBFD3.3030205 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 21:18:11 -0400 From: Dale Farmer Organization: I'm working on that.... Subject: Re: elephants References:

In-Reply-To: Paul Puppo wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > On 5/20/06, RD wrote: > >> snakes, etc. on stage and in film,In college I worked a production of >> Carnival and we had a heafty 4" > (diameter) python for "atmosphere/set dressing." > > I liked to hold it backstge when I wasn't working. Mostly because the > others were to scared. > > One day, I had the snake on my sholders and from the wing I noticed > some minor technical problem on the other side of the stage, and being > a consumate professional, I was concerned. > > The snake sensed my excitment and reacted... I wasn't afraid of the > snake, but the snake didn't know that... I was never in any real > danger, it was mostly funny, in a "Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom" > way. > > Paul Puppo > ILLUMINEERING > http://www.Nifty-Gadgets.com > > > A acquaintance of mine had a snake. He had gotten it as a teen and it had growed up quite a bit since then. It was up to eating two rabbits or chickens per week when the incident happened. I think it was 12 or so feet long. Anyway. Normally after he fed the snake, he washed up, but since he had a friend over, neglected to wash his hands after feeding the snake. Hour or so later (both of them having some alcohol on board by then), he decided to take the snake out to show his friend the bulges that had been the bunnies. Snake smells bunny on his hands, and decides that they were the next course. Snake strikes, and wraps itself around hands and upper body and starts to constrict. Two adult men were unable to pry the snake loose, and were only barely able to keep the one from being suffocated. Called the police, police officers were unable to remove snake, but were able to keep him alive until the animal control person arrives and convinces the snake to quit. ( I don't know how) Snake was put up for sale the next morning, and was eventually donated to a zoo when no buyers stayed interested. Gotta treat animals with respect and care. --Dale ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Peter Scheu" Cc: bill [at] bcaworld.com ('Bill Conner') Subject: RE: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 22:28:44 -0400 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: In-reply-to: Bill Conner wrote: >I have to voice some exceptions to Peter S's comments on this subject. Kewl. FOOD FIGHT!!!! >Codes and standards are not perfect and there are at least some = portions and requirements=20 >that are not for good reasons. I don't consider "because that's the = way we've always=20 >done it" to be a good reason. Well, that's not really what I said, or I didn't make myself clear, or = you made an assumption about what I was talking about. I was opining on the "rule" that was originally queried... Specifically, placing something in = the path of the fire curtain. I think it's a damn good rule that you = shouldn't do that (in general) and you won't be able to dissuade me. >Second, "IMHO, the effectiveness of a building's life safety protective = >systems like sprinklers, smoke vents, fire curtains, etc.) should not = rely=20 >on human intervention." I believe that the record shows that human behavior=20 >during a fire or other emergency is very good and quite altruistic. =20 Again, not really what I'm talking about. To clarify by example: Would = it be reasonable to expect that once sprinklers are activated, one then had to = get on a ladder and remove a protective covering around the head so the = water would spray out? I see going out onstage and moving a set piece or prop = out of the way of the already descending curtain to be kinda the same thing. Once you deploy the system (or it has been automatically deployed), you shouldn't have to intervene to do something else to make it effective. >Third, "But the alternate systems don't stop debris from=20 >falling into the audience chamber." So, when has this been a hazard? = It wasn't at the=20 >Iroquois or any other actual theatre fire I can find a record of. I freely admit that I can't cite specific examples, but at the Iroquois, = the curtain fouled on the way in, and being a cheesy mixture of wood slurry = and asbestos, it, too, burned up in the intense heat. Maybe it would have = been effective if it had been a steel curtain. Who knows? But it's intuitive, isn't it? That a proper fiberglass or steel curtain would mitigate the passage of falling debris into the audience? How could it not? I remember seeing a series of photographs from a UK fire from sometime = at the turn of the last century that showed a completely destroyed stage = house and a (almost) pristine audience chamber with the steel curtain = separating the two. I'd have to take some time to look it up, but I'm sure you know = it. Jeeze... We are SUCH geeks! ;-) Peter Scheu =20 Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Syracuse, NY www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ Subject: Projection screen woes Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 20:53:01 -0700 Message-ID: <88919A5358656649A9F6B8E5E8F7366164DB82 [at] globe-exchange.theglobetheatres.org> From: "Ben Thoron" I have a Gerriets Opera Procyc. We bought it new 2 years ago, after the = first show, we stored it in a hamper as suggested by the Gerriets folks. = We recently (7 days ago) pulled it out and hung it. It has hardly = relaxed its wrinkles, even after a week. The Gerriets folks say that = heat should make it better, lighting up the ground row etc. Not so much = so far. (admittedly the electrics department has been reluctant to burn = their deeply saturated blue gel to solve a scenic department. On Monday = we'll pull all the color and see what 8 hours of heat can do. Any other = thoughts? =20 Ben Thoron | technical director | the old globe | 619-235-2260 | = 619-231-1037-fax | bthoron [at] theoldglobe.org=20 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1547317832.1148186714221.JavaMail.root [at] fepweb01> Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 21:45:14 -0700 From: Subject: Summer stock oppertunities Looking for a great summer stock job? Northern Lights Playhouse could be the place for you! Northern Lights Playhouse in North Central Wisconsin and is looking for actors, a Tech Dir, Costumer, and Dir/choreographer to be part of our Summer season. Shows include Cats, Oliver, The Wind in the Willows, Dial M for Murder, plus several others. Contract begins May 22 and ends September 4. Competitive weekly salary + housing. Please email your resume to funshow [at] newnorth.net. ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #815 *****************************