Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 30450698; Mon, 22 May 2006 03:03:42 -0700 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL,BAYES_00, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS,URIBL_OB_SURBL autolearn=no version=3.1.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on localhost X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #816 Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 03:01:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #816 1. Re: Taiko Drums by "Paul Guncheon" 2. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Bill Conner" 3. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Bill Conner" 4. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Bill Conner" 5. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by Jerry Durand 6. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by Jerry Durand 7. Re: elephants by CB 8. Re: Taiko Drums by Bruce Purdy 9. Re: elephants by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 10. noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums by "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" 11. Re: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums by "RD" 12. Re: Taiko Drums by "RD" 13. Re: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums by Steve Larson 14. Re: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums by "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" 15. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "RD" 16. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "Bill Conner" 17. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by Jerry Durand 18. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 19. Re: Taiko Drums by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 20. Re: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 21. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 22. Re: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums by "Delbert Hall" 23. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 24. Re: Taiko Drums by "Tom Heemskerk" 25. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by Mick Alderson 26. Re: Taiko Drums by Bruce Purdy 27. Re: Taiko Drums by Clive Mitchell 28. Re: Taiko Drums by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 29. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "RD" 30. Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "RD" 31. Re: Taiko Drums by Bruce Purdy 32. Re: Taiko Drums by Jerry Durand 33. Altman Lens identification by "Jason Cowperthwaite" 34. Re: Taiko Drums by "RD" 35. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by "RD" 36. Re: Taiko Drums by "Tom Heemskerk" 37. Sound Levels by CB 38. Resource for those who collect books by "RICHARD FINKELSTEIN" 39. OT: Boy Scouts by "Josh Ratty" 40. Re: Altman Lens identification by Stephen Litterst 41. Re: Altman Lens identification by "Jason Cowperthwaite" 42. Re: Altman Lens identification by "Thomas Schraeder" 43. Re: Altman Lens identification by "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" 44. Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com 45. Re: Taiko Drums by "Bill Nelson" 46. Re: Taiko Drums by "Bill Nelson" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <004e01c67cd6$f0f98dd0$0202a8c0 [at] HUNKACRAP> From: "Paul Guncheon" References: Subject: Re: Taiko Drums Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 03:03:22 -1000 >As far as I know there's no >way to make these instruments any quieter... Any >advice (I'm sure it will be too late for this show, >but ideas for the future will help) <> Taiko drums are sealed so you'd have to remove one of the heads to get the cloth in. I think the drum owner might be slightly annoyed. But... Taiko drums are supposed to be loud. They're Taiko drums. They're supposed to "shake your belly". I don't understand the reasoning in trying to quiet them. Maybe it's just me. Laters, Paul "I'm going up," Tom said innocently. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <024101c67cdc$7a1f2a70$6501a8c0 [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: RE: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 08:43:00 -0500 Jason posted: "If that person has 25 actors charging towards them in a panic due to an emergency they are not aware of, they WILL get hurt." Perhaps being charged by 25 actors will hurt someone but a fire on stage will not be the cause. If you believe that people behave in such an anti-social fashion as is sometimes represented in the movies, you are miss-informed. Much post fire forensic study shows that people do not behave in the manner you suggest. I believe that you will be hard pressed to find an instance of a fire emergency where people behave in the way you suggest. In all of the code meetings and hearings and conferences and readings I've attended or read, I've yet to see one example of the behavior you suggest. That includes having been on stage during a fire, where even the actors and dancers behave in a very responsible and controlled manner. Bill C. ASTC, ETCP CR-T ------------------------------ Message-ID: <024501c67cdd$50cd0d30$6501a8c0 [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 08:49:00 -0500 Jerry posted: "I originally asked because the line I was in (not in a theatre) was told to move because we were blocking the emergency exit. It was mentioned here that is correct, standing near/in a door or exit aisle is not allowed on the basis of blocking the exit. I didn't understand the reasoning then or now. It seems a person standing in a doorway would be the first one out. Now, I know standing in a doorway is blocking patron access, but this was specifically presented as life and safety code." Well, more information than before where I imagined one or two people standing in an aisle, not out in the lobby. Where the building may be fully occupied - such as at a multi-plex cinema with a full house in the theater and a full house in the lobby for the next shows, the means of egress for the theatre does have to be maintained. It also makes operational sense to keep passage ways clear, especially when it's an out swinging door. I don't suppose whoever told you to move because of fire code reasons ever could have been wrong, either. Bill C. ASTC, ETCP CR-T ------------------------------ Message-ID: <024901c67cde$67337f90$6501a8c0 [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 08:56:47 -0500 Frank W. posted: "Moreover, the behaviour of an audience doing a panic evacuation is not rational." There is no evidence of this and overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Do some study and research. Much of it is by British researchers. "Most will try to leave by the way they came in, whether this is appropriate or not. The signed exits get little use." This is true but it is anything but "not rational". If there was a door with an exit sign over it and you'd never been through it nor seen what was on the other side, it's the most rational thing in the world to not use it in an emergency. At least in this country - and I'm pretty sure everywhere - that passageway has a good possibility of being blocked regardless of the regulations and you know the way you just came in was clear. Bill C. ASTC, ETCP CR-T ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 07:16:10 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In-reply-to: Message-id: References: On May 21, 2006, at 6:49 AM, Bill Conner wrote: > I don't suppose whoever told you to move because of fire code > reasons ever could have been wrong, either. I had supposed they were wrong and asked here, where I was clearly told (don't remember by who, it was more than one person) that it was part of the life safety code that even one person standing in a doorway or aisle is blocking it. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 07:27:24 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In-reply-to: Message-id: <9361551C-E937-46A0-B26C-7EDE7098A581 [at] interstellar.com> References: On May 21, 2006, at 6:56 AM, Bill Conner wrote: > If there was a door with an exit sign over it and you'd never been > through it nor seen what was on the other side, it's the most > rational thing in the world to not use it in an emergency. At > least in this country - and I'm pretty sure everywhere - that > passageway has a good possibility of being blocked regardless of > the regulations and you know the way you just came in was clear. A client has an office on the 11th floor of a nearby office tower and I often take the stairs down (not up, you can't get into the stairs below the 2nd floor) and I could see someone who hasn't used this exit before either slow down or even turn back. Once the staircase leaves the second floor it becomes a sealed tunnel that goes the rest of the way down (tall first floor) and then snakes through the building to a crash-bar door in back of the building. I understand the sealed tunnel to keep fire out, but it seems to go on for a long time. People could think they missed the exit. I guess some signs (EXIT >>>) might help, but there aren't any. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060521072935.00d29da8 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 07:29:35 From: CB Subject: Re: elephants >Wild animals, even if trained, are still potentially dangerous. >Elephants are real hard to stop too. Ezzackly the point I was trying to make. I wouldn't just put an animal like that in the show to make it 'snazzier', especially if the elephant only played for a short time, and was, effectively, a prop. I would make a plan, have a trainer, train the crew and actors, and have an emergency plan. I'd have to weigh the time and cash investment in a real elephant over that of the papier mache adn decide if the 'reality' were worth the risk. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 11:01:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Taiko Drums From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > But... Taiko drums are supposed to be loud. They're Taiko drums. They're > supposed to "shake your belly". I don't understand the reasoning in tryin= g > to quiet them. I do - or at least the context this came up in. The OP was concerned about keeping the overall volume of the concert under 100db, citing OSHA regs. The un-amplified sound was well beyond that and he wondered what he could do about that. He mentioned that he didn't think there was a way to "Turn down the volume" on the drums themselves. We also have a 100db (=8CA=B9 weighted average slow-response measured from the centre mix position.) policy. This is difficult to deal with for some bands, since their on-stage sound without any FOH hits that. Frankly, I've never even measured the db level of the symphony or philharmonic concerts. I have little doubt academically that they push the limits as well, but I have never felt the need for ear protection on those concerts. They may well hit or surpass 100db, but they don't "Sound" as lou= d as the rock bands. I might theorise that it's because they have a good dynamic range, whereas the rock concerts (& country concerts) are *always* loud. "A wall o= f sound". =20 Bruce --=20 Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House =20 ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 15:05:11 GMT Subject: Re: elephants Message-Id: <20060521.080521.16359.336021 [at] webmail30.lax.untd.com> If you can afford to produce a full-scale production of AIDA, you can af= ford the Elephant(s), it's staff, and adequate space to house the elepha= nt(s), measured in acres . And for the few of us who can enter Valhal= la alongside those with the wherewithal to produce a credible production= of Wagner's RING cycle, if Brunhilda needs a steed as living prop, as a= ny respectable Valkyrie would, you just have to come up with one. The au= dience expects nothing less when they are paying hundreds of dollars per= seat. = /s/ Richard ____________________________ >Wild animals, even if trained, are still potentially dangerous. >Elephants are real hard to stop too. _______________________ Ezzackly the point I was trying to make. I wouldn't just put an animal = like that in the show to make it 'snazzier', especially if the elephant = only played for a short time, and was, effectively, a prop. I would mak= e a plan, have a trainer, train the crew and actors, and have an emergen= cy plan. I'd have to weigh the time and cash investment in a real eleph= ant over that of the papier mache adn decide if the 'reality' were worth= the risk. Chris "Chris" Babbie ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001c01c67cf0$cf7f75b0$6401a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" References: Subject: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 10:08:33 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Purdy" >This is difficult to deal with for some >bands, since their on-stage sound without any FOH hits that. I think I've made mention before that I have seen a meter hitting 104 sustained (3 or 5 seconds, IDR)... from the crowd. > I might theorise that it's because they (symphony) have a good dynamic range, >whereas the rock concerts (& country concerts) are *always* loud. "A wall of >sound". Which begs the question from me. (learning mode here): How is the sound pressure affected by different instruments? A double bass say versus a violin Just off the top of my head, I think 105db from the low end of a double bass would be easier to handle for three seconds than the high end of a violin. curious. Rob't ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 10:12:34 -0600 Message-ID: <02a001c67cf1$5f279530$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: I do recall at Penn State where the bands were so loud, that we worked out a cut off system when they reached a certain decibel level .... they were warned. Doom (We are talking in the seventies, ooh la la.) -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Idaho Scenic & Rigging Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:09 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Purdy" >This is difficult to deal with for some >bands, since their on-stage sound without any FOH hits that. I think I've made mention before that I have seen a meter hitting 104 sustained (3 or 5 seconds, IDR)... from the crowd. > I might theorise that it's because they (symphony) have a good dynamic range, >whereas the rock concerts (& country concerts) are *always* loud. "A wall of >sound". Which begs the question from me. (learning mode here): How is the sound pressure affected by different instruments? A double bass say versus a violin Just off the top of my head, I think 105db from the low end of a double bass would be easier to handle for three seconds than the high end of a violin. curious. Rob't ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Taiko Drums Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 10:14:54 -0600 Message-ID: <02a101c67cf1$b2cbefb0$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: And the orchestra rendition when the cannons go off ....much higher than = 125 db. Doom=20 -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bruce = Purdy Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:02 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Taiko Drums For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- > But... Taiko drums are supposed to be loud. They're Taiko drums. = They're > supposed to "shake your belly". I don't understand the reasoning in = trying > to quiet them. I do - or at least the context this came up in. The OP was concerned about keeping the overall volume of the concert under 100db, citing OSHA regs. The un-amplified sound was well beyond that and he wondered what = he could do about that. He mentioned that he didn't think there was a way = to "Turn down the volume" on the drums themselves. We also have a 100db (=8CA=B9 weighted average slow-response = measured from the centre mix position.) policy. This is difficult to deal with for = some bands, since their on-stage sound without any FOH hits that. Frankly, I've never even measured the db level of the symphony or philharmonic concerts. I have little doubt academically that they push = the limits as well, but I have never felt the need for ear protection on = those concerts. They may well hit or surpass 100db, but they don't "Sound" as = loud as the rock bands. I might theorise that it's because they have a good dynamic range, whereas the rock concerts (& country concerts) are *always* loud. "A = wall of sound". =20 Bruce --=20 Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House =20 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 12:19:56 -0400 Subject: Re: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: It might even loosen your bowels! Steve > From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" > Reply-To: "Stagecraft" > Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 10:08:33 -0600 > To: "Stagecraft" > Subject: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums > > Which begs the question from me. (learning mode here): > How is the sound pressure affected by different instruments? > A double bass say versus a violin > Just off the top of my head, I think 105db from the low end > of a double bass would be easier to handle for three seconds > than the high end of a violin. > > curious. > Rob't > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003701c67cf3$18e3d780$6401a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" References: Subject: Re: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 10:24:55 -0600 And that is why I carry plugs with me. Rob't ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Larson" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 10:19 AM Subject: Re: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > It might even loosen your bowels! > > Steve > > > From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" > > Reply-To: "Stagecraft" > > Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 10:08:33 -0600 > > To: "Stagecraft" > > Subject: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums > > > > > Which begs the question from me. (learning mode here): > > How is the sound pressure affected by different instruments? > > A double bass say versus a violin > > Just off the top of my head, I think 105db from the low end > > of a double bass would be easier to handle for three seconds > > than the high end of a violin. > > > > curious. > > Rob't > > > ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Cc: bill [at] bcaworld.com ('Bill Conner') Subject: RE: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 10:28:12 -0600 Message-ID: <02b601c67cf3$8e735ca0$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: In talking with investigators and interviewed people from the Station Fire ...entrance was blocked by bouncers. Of course, they perhaps tell me things that they do not tell others, frequently. Dr. doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Conner Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 7:49 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Jerry posted: "I originally asked because the line I was in (not in a theatre) was told to move because we were blocking the emergency exit. It was mentioned here that is correct, standing near/in a door or exit aisle is not allowed on the basis of blocking the exit. I didn't understand the reasoning then or now. It seems a person standing in a doorway would be the first one out. Now, I know standing in a doorway is blocking patron access, but this was specifically presented as life and safety code." Well, more information than before where I imagined one or two people standing in an aisle, not out in the lobby. Where the building may be fully occupied - such as at a multi-plex cinema with a full house in the theater and a full house in the lobby for the next shows, the means of egress for the theatre does have to be maintained. It also makes operational sense to keep passage ways clear, especially when it's an out swinging door. I don't suppose whoever told you to move because of fire code reasons ever could have been wrong, either. Bill C. ASTC, ETCP CR-T ------------------------------ Message-ID: <026901c67cf3$de038e70$6501a8c0 [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: RE: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 11:30:26 -0500 Peter- Thanks for your thoughtful and civil comments. You said :"Well, that's not really what I said," when I replied to your statement "The ONLY point I'm trying to make is, either one follow the rules (which are there for damn good reasons),..." which didn't seem limited to the specific issue of keeping the fall line clear for a fire safety curtain. Limited to that or some other specific issues, I withdraw my exception. You said: "I see going out onstage and moving a set piece or prop out of the way of the already descending curtain to be kinda the same thing." I agree but your original comment ("IMHO, the effectiveness of a building's life safety protective systems like sprinklers, smoke vents, fire curtains, etc. should not rely on human intervention." ) suggested a preference for everything being automatic and I disagree. In particular, I believe that a manual only emergency activation of the closing of a fire safety curtain, such as I am led to believe is the case in the UK and elsewhere in the world, is superior planning for the reasons stated. I know we disagree on this and that within some organizations in the United States I am in the minority. None-the-less, especially in assembly occupancies or anytime when dealing with large number of humans, management of the situation by trained people is much preferable to programmed, wholly automatic operation. I agree most sprinklers should remain automatic and operate on detection of heat as they do. Fire alarms, however, are specifically required to detect a fire and notify a person BUT NOT automatically sound an alarm. I know there are many examples where this is not the case and I will argue those are wrong per the Life Safety Code and not as safe as facilities where there is a trained person notified of the detection who than initiates pre planned responses depending on the variables. It's not simple but all automatic is not the answer. So, based on a broader picture than stages and generally to some specific systems, I'll withdraw my exception. I think the example you mention was a theatre in England - something on the Tyne - that was being renovated in the 1980s. I have shown pictures which were b&w and looked "old" and courtesy of the historian there, David ???? This was unsprinklered (as we learn Acton HS was) and was very well vented - as the tile stage roof was removed and in the process of being replaced. As has so often been the cause, I believe some construction activity in the otherwise closed theatre. I would simply like to discourage spending time and money trying to protect against non-existent hazards. As you know, I frequently mention that the cost of injuries from falls is over 100 times greater than from fire yet we seldom discuss aisle lighting, handrails, stair geometry, and those things that hurt people in theatres every day while we spend huge amounts of time discussing a fire safety curtain that is not proven to do anything for safety. Exception stands. For Frank, I'll concede, that if you are too uninformed or backward or otherwise unable or unwilling to install sprinklers, a fire safety curtain might someday buy a little more time for egress - but history doesn't seem to provide any clear examples. Bill C. ASTC, ETCP CR-T ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 10:06:45 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060521100511.01f006c8 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 09:28 AM 5/21/2006, RD wrote: >In talking with investigators and interviewed people from the Station Fire >...entrance was blocked by bouncers. Of course, they perhaps tell me things >that they do not tell others, frequently. Dr. doom Since the bouncers are employees responsible for life and safety (supposedly, I know they're actually they're to make sure no one causes trouble or gets in free), then that would just add to the liability of the club. Ushers stand in doorways all the time. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <412.2736997.31a1fda8 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 13:30:16 EDT Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In a message dated 21/05/06 14:57:27 GMT Daylight Time, bill-conner [at] att.net writes: > This is true but it is anything but "not rational". If there was a door > with an exit sign over it and you'd never been through it nor seen what was > on the other side, it's the most rational thing in the world to not use it > in an emergency. At least in this country - and I'm pretty sure > everywhere - that passageway has a good possibility of being blocked > regardless of the regulations and you know the way you just came in was > clear. Not over here. Fire exits may never be used for storage, and must have emergency lightling systems. Until quite recently, that at Covent Garden was done by gas lamps: at the Wigmore Hall it still is. I know we are only an amateur theatre, but we were meticulous about this. Before a show was done with an audience, two safety inspectors (I was one of them) checked it out. Emergency lighting, exit boxes, exit routes, fire extinguishers, seating when removeable seats were in use, all the hazards that the rules mention. That's apart from the normal stage hazards, such as loose cables, inadequate handrails, improperly suspended set elements, and so on. SMs, and especially the Props Department, tend to store things where they can find space, and we were sometimes less than popular, especially when we made a return visit to see that our requirements had been complied with. The House Management team had an annual session with the company who maintained our fire equipment, receiving training in the use of extinguishers, and in evacuation procedures. It is not too generally known that they are not just takers of tickets and sellers of programmes. Their prime function is to ensure an orderly and safe evacuation if it should be needed, just the same as Flight Stewards on aircraft. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <40f.273866d.31a2000b [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 13:40:27 EDT Subject: Re: Taiko Drums In a message dated 21/05/06 16:02:20 GMT Daylight Time, bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com writes: > Frankly, I've never even measured the db level of the symphony or > philharmonic concerts. I have little doubt academically that they push the > limits as well, but I have never felt the need for ear protection on those > concerts. They may well hit or surpass 100db, but they don't "Sound" as loud > as the rock bands. It depends on where you are. The audience is probably safe. The players, perhaps not. With a normal layout, the 'cello section has up to four trumpets and four trombones right behind them. Sometimes the basses. I know that there are vague worries abroad. Orchestral musicians need their hearing. > > I might theorise that it's because they have a good dynamic range, > whereas the rock concerts (& country concerts) are *always* loud. "A wall of > sound". Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <325.49e1907.31a20368 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 13:54:48 EDT Subject: Re: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums In a message dated 21/05/06 17:08:56 GMT Daylight Time, idahoscenic [at] earthlink.net writes: > Which begs the question from me. (learning mode here): > How is the sound pressure affected by different instruments? > A double bass say versus a violin > Just off the top of my head, I think 105db from the low end > of a double bass would be easier to handle for three seconds > than the high end of a violin. This is an extremely complicated and difficult subject. There are various criteria for industrial noise, published by various authorities, and often disagreeing. But all deal with constant and predictable noise sources. Orchestras don't fit. As we move from Gluck to Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, and Berlioz, they have got louder, probably culminating in Mahler. The instruments have got louder, as has the whole ensemble. Some conductors and ensembles are trying to reverse this trend. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <365.4e72757.31a2042a [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 13:58:02 EDT Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In a message dated 21/05/06 17:28:29 GMT Daylight Time, doomster [at] worldnet.att.net writes: > In talking with investigators and interviewed people from the Station Fire > ...entrance was blocked by bouncers. Of course, they perhaps tell me things > that they do not tell others, frequently. Dr. doom Just how bad can it get? Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 14:04:18 -0400 From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: noise level and frequency... was Re: Taiko Drums In-Reply-To: References: This subject got me to wondering if there has every been a suit against a university and professional sports team claiming that the excessive sound level in a stadium damaged someone's hearing. Video tape of players, cheerleaders, and even the video screens with the work "LOUDER" could be used to support the fact that the school or ownership of the team encouraged the unexceptable sound level. Just wondering. -Delbert --=20 Delbert L. Hall ZFX Flying Director Phone: 714-585-7070 ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <4a1.2f957b.31a2078a [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 14:12:26 EDT Subject: Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions In a message dated 21/05/06 17:31:07 GMT Daylight Time, bill-conner [at] att.net writes: > I think the example you mention was a theatre in England - something on the > Tyne - that was being renovated in the 1980s. I have shown pictures which > were b&w and looked "old" and courtesy of the historian there, David ???? > This was unsprinklered (as we learn Acton HS was) and was very well vented - It was. It was some years ago, so my memories may be inaccurate. Due to the bad positioning of a lantern, a drape caught light. Correctly, the iron was brought in, and the roof vents opened. So far, so good. Unfortunately, the fire set off a dust explosion, which blew a great dint in the iron. As far as I can judge from the photographs I have seen, about a foot deep and three foot across. I will chase them up, if I can. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Tom Heemskerk" Subject: Re: Taiko Drums Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 15:10:22 -0700 > > Frankly, I've never even measured the db level of the symphony or >philharmonic concerts. I have little doubt academically that they push the >limits as well, but I have never felt the need for ear protection on those >concerts. They may well hit or surpass 100db, but they don't "Sound" as >loud >as the rock bands. > > I might theorise that it's because they have a good dynamic range, >whereas the rock concerts (& country concerts) are *always* loud. "A wall >of >sound". > As far as WCB/OHSA (in BC) is concerned, it's the cumulative effect of noise that counts in situations where the SPL isn't constant. They would likely measure a workplace such as a theatre with a dosimeter over an extended period to determine the risk of hearing damage. I once took some SPL measurements during a few orchestra rehearsals and an opera, and I got quite a surpise. From a distance of six feet or more, a single trumpeter warming up was a constant 94db, Figaro singing the start of Largo Factotum offstage was 98db, a big loud passage in a Tchaikovsky symphony was a steady 102db, and a cymbal crash measured 118db (which I'd guess is probably not good, no matter how brief it may be). No claims to great accuracy on these measurements, but an orchestra is definitely in the "darn loud" ballpark at times. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4470E9F6.7030602 [at] uwosh.edu> Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 17:30:14 -0500 From: Mick Alderson Subject: Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Bill C. wrote: > The Life Safety Code recognizes this in requiring a trained crowd manager > when there is an assembly - 50 or more - both assigning specific duties and > personal responsibility. (That's right - you have a lecture class with 51 > or more people and you are required to have a crowd manager designated. > Think about that. Someone is suppose to be personally responsible for the > safety of the other people in the room. This is new and part of the > post-Station fire changes.) Isn't this a bit of overkill (so to speak)? I am all for sensible life safety regulations; they save lives. But IMHO this rule is an over-reaction to one incident, and responds to criminally stupid actions by one set of individuals at a single event by making criminals out of everybody! In the theatre we can probably follow this without much difficulty because we already have a staff in place which can accomodate the requirement with a little training. But a "trained crowd manager" in every assembly of 50? What does that mean? Most events DON'T have a built in staff whose sole purpose is to deal with the public. Our Theatre Department had a banquet a couple weeks ago, which probably had 70 people attending. Did we break the law? Suppose someone holds a wedding. Must they now hire a safety officer, or is the minister tagged? How about other church services? You can't just designate someone, after all. They have to be "trained". As to the lecture classs, well, I prefer lower teacher/student ratios myself, but I don't often have a choice. The problem with rules like this, IMHO, is that they cannot be effectively enforced and WILL be dismissed by most of the public as unreasonable. Worse, ALL life safety issues will be lumped together and similarly dismissed. And it's not like the Life Safety Code gets closely followed now! The result I fear will be MORE lost lives, not less. But you sure will be able to nail some poor schmuck even more firmly to the wall afterwards, 'cause they "didn't follow the Code". Look, there is no question that a trained crowd manager is always preferable to "automatic systems", but mandating that every group of 51 people include such a one is not realistic. -- Mick Alderson TD, Fredric March Theatre University of Wis. Oshkosh ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 18:32:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Taiko Drums From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > I once took some SPL measurements during a few orchestra rehearsals and an > opera, and I got quite a surpise. From a distance of six feet or more, a > single trumpeter warming up was a constant 94db, Figaro singing the start of > Largo Factotum offstage was 98db, a big loud passage in a Tchaikovsky > symphony was a steady 102db, and a cymbal crash measured 118db (which I'd > guess is probably not good, no matter how brief it may be). No claims to > great accuracy on these measurements, but an orchestra is definitely in the > "darn loud" ballpark at times. Yep, no question there. But six feet? My measurements are always from the centre of the house (Sound console position) which is 70 feet from the edge of the apron. So, since that's where I measure the rock concerts, for comparative purposes I'd have to measure the symphony from the same distance for it to have any real meaning. I'll have to do so next time - unfortunately they aren't scheduled to be back 'till the fall. Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 23:37:39 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: Taiko Drums References:

In-Reply-To: In message , Tom Heemskerk writes >I once took some SPL measurements during a few orchestra rehearsals and >an opera, and I got quite a surpise. From a distance of six feet or >more, a single trumpeter warming up was a constant 94db, Figaro singing >the start of Largo Factotum offstage was 98db, a big loud passage in a >Tchaikovsky symphony was a steady 102db, and a cymbal crash measured >118db (which I'd guess is probably not good, no matter how brief it may >be). No claims to great accuracy on these measurements, but an >orchestra is definitely in the "darn loud" ballpark at times. > You guys are worried about sound levels in a theatre? You're more likely to suffer ear damage in a night club. An acquaintance who sells and installs club lighting and sound systems tends to pair clubs against each other by casually mentioning that he just upgraded club-x's sound system to 20K whereupon club-y decides to upgrade theirs to 22K, then he goes to club-x and tells them club-y has 22K... You get the drift. There's one club I occasionally go to that really commands hearing protection. When the "music" disappears into a sudden squealing noise in your ears there's got to be damage occurring. Because I "came out" late in life and as such didn't really experience the club side of things I had hearing that extended up to the point that I could hear the high pitched whistle of flyback transformers in video monitors. All it took was a few trips to a loud gay club and I instantly kissed goodbye to the upper end of my hearing spectrum. I simply couldn't hear the video monitors whistle any more. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Taiko Drums Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 18:48:59 -0400 Message-ID: <00d001c67d28$bff18c40$6501a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: =20 > You guys are worried about sound levels in a theatre? >=20 > You're more likely to suffer ear damage in a night club. Only if someone drugs me, ties me up, and drags me into one. Besides, the fact that the noise level in night clubs is worse doesn't = make excessive noise in a theatre good. We do what we can. By your logic, there's no point in enforcing airline safety regulations, because people = are more likely to be killed in an auto crash. ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 16:56:33 -0600 Message-ID: <032701c67d29$ced5ff60$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: Yes. They do, and they are supposed to be trained to assist in any emergency evacuation as well as handle crowds, but most, underpaid as most security personnel, and not trained, have received no direction as to what to do in these emergency cases. Run! Is not the best of professional training comments. Dr. doom Although I have had two law suits in point of fact in which that is the word given by the owner to his employees in case of some emergency. Run! -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jerry Durand Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 11:07 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- At 09:28 AM 5/21/2006, RD wrote: >In talking with investigators and interviewed people from the Station Fire >...entrance was blocked by bouncers. Of course, they perhaps tell me things >that they do not tell others, frequently. Dr. doom Since the bouncers are employees responsible for life and safety (supposedly, I know they're actually they're to make sure no one causes trouble or gets in free), then that would just add to the liability of the club. Ushers stand in doorways all the time. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 16:58:47 -0600 Message-ID: <032901c67d2a$1edfa6f0$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: And to add insult to injury: a bone fide theater equipment installation company ... when working on the job, took the sign off the stage left wall, the emergency sign for the curtain, and scrawled across it in paint: RUN. I have the sign which was given me by the management. $500,000. job. Not too professional. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jerry Durand Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 11:07 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- At 09:28 AM 5/21/2006, RD wrote: >In talking with investigators and interviewed people from the Station Fire >...entrance was blocked by bouncers. Of course, they perhaps tell me things >that they do not tell others, frequently. Dr. doom Since the bouncers are employees responsible for life and safety (supposedly, I know they're actually they're to make sure no one causes trouble or gets in free), then that would just add to the liability of the club. Ushers stand in doorways all the time. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 18:58:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Taiko Drums From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > You guys are worried about sound levels in a theatre? > > You're more likely to suffer ear damage in a night club. Indubitably. However we don't work there - we're concerned with controlling the places that we actually work! And don't worry, I wouldn't go *near* those clubs, or anywhere else that features high volumes. (Except those concerts that I get stuck with.) If I wanted to have someone screaming in my ear I'd go listen to my ex wife! ;-) Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 16:00:22 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Taiko Drums In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060521155926.01f0cb48 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 03:48 PM 5/21/2006, Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote: >Only if someone drugs me, ties me up, and drags me into one. Wandering around with queens, you wind up in clubs. Too bad I don't dance, I just wind up watching the coats. :( -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3eb8da960605211601q11b83c92ma73bbe70913e3de0 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 19:01:02 -0400 From: "Jason Cowperthwaite" Subject: Altman Lens identification Hey all, I have come across a rather large stack of Altman 360/360Q lens Assemblies that are *not* marked in any way as to whether they are x9's, x12's, x16's, etc.. is there a way to easily figure out what is what? thanks, Jason Cowperthwaite ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Taiko Drums Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 17:02:24 -0600 Message-ID: <032b01c67d2a$9fed5f30$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: And louder, true to form. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Clive Mitchell Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 4:38 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Taiko Drums For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- In message , Tom Heemskerk writes >I once took some SPL measurements during a few orchestra rehearsals and >an opera, and I got quite a surpise. From a distance of six feet or >more, a single trumpeter warming up was a constant 94db, Figaro singing >the start of Largo Factotum offstage was 98db, a big loud passage in a >Tchaikovsky symphony was a steady 102db, and a cymbal crash measured >118db (which I'd guess is probably not good, no matter how brief it may >be). No claims to great accuracy on these measurements, but an >orchestra is definitely in the "darn loud" ballpark at times. > You guys are worried about sound levels in a theatre? You're more likely to suffer ear damage in a night club. An acquaintance who sells and installs club lighting and sound systems tends to pair clubs against each other by casually mentioning that he just upgraded club-x's sound system to 20K whereupon club-y decides to upgrade theirs to 22K, then he goes to club-x and tells them club-y has 22K... You get the drift. There's one club I occasionally go to that really commands hearing protection. When the "music" disappears into a sudden squealing noise in your ears there's got to be damage occurring. Because I "came out" late in life and as such didn't really experience the club side of things I had hearing that extended up to the point that I could hear the high pitched whistle of flyback transformers in video monitors. All it took was a few trips to a loud gay club and I instantly kissed goodbye to the upper end of my hearing spectrum. I simply couldn't hear the video monitors whistle any more. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 17:03:26 -0600 Message-ID: <032f01c67d2a$c543a140$c083c447 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: That may be fine for you until one incident and court ....believe me, he said after 368 law suits I have been involved in. The Code is specific and not for those who pick and choose. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Mick Alderson Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 4:30 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Bill C. wrote: > The Life Safety Code recognizes this in requiring a trained crowd manager > when there is an assembly - 50 or more - both assigning specific duties and > personal responsibility. (That's right - you have a lecture class with 51 > or more people and you are required to have a crowd manager designated. > Think about that. Someone is suppose to be personally responsible for the > safety of the other people in the room. This is new and part of the > post-Station fire changes.) Isn't this a bit of overkill (so to speak)? I am all for sensible life safety regulations; they save lives. But IMHO this rule is an over-reaction to one incident, and responds to criminally stupid actions by one set of individuals at a single event by making criminals out of everybody! In the theatre we can probably follow this without much difficulty because we already have a staff in place which can accomodate the requirement with a little training. But a "trained crowd manager" in every assembly of 50? What does that mean? Most events DON'T have a built in staff whose sole purpose is to deal with the public. Our Theatre Department had a banquet a couple weeks ago, which probably had 70 people attending. Did we break the law? Suppose someone holds a wedding. Must they now hire a safety officer, or is the minister tagged? How about other church services? You can't just designate someone, after all. They have to be "trained". As to the lecture classs, well, I prefer lower teacher/student ratios myself, but I don't often have a choice. The problem with rules like this, IMHO, is that they cannot be effectively enforced and WILL be dismissed by most of the public as unreasonable. Worse, ALL life safety issues will be lumped together and similarly dismissed. And it's not like the Life Safety Code gets closely followed now! The result I fear will be MORE lost lives, not less. But you sure will be able to nail some poor schmuck even more firmly to the wall afterwards, 'cause they "didn't follow the Code". Look, there is no question that a trained crowd manager is always preferable to "automatic systems", but mandating that every group of 51 people include such a one is not realistic. -- Mick Alderson TD, Fredric March Theatre University of Wis. Oshkosh ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Tom Heemskerk" Subject: Re: Taiko Drums Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 17:11:42 -0700 > > Yep, no question there. But six feet? My measurements are always from >the centre of the house (Sound console position) which is 70 feet from the >edge of the apron. So, since that's where I measure the rock concerts, for >comparative purposes I'd have to measure the symphony from the same >distance >for it to have any real meaning. I'll have to do so next time - >unfortunately they aren't scheduled to be back 'till the fall. > Six feet, because I was measuring for my sake and that of the musicians. Of course it makes good sense to measure the auditorium SPL at the console location for purposes of enforcing a house limit. The audience at a symphony concert would naturally be at a much lower risk, thanks to the limited exposure time compared to us, and the inverse-square law. FWIW the so-called 'musicians' earplugs' are also quite suitable for audio engineers etc. Here's the site: http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme.aspx ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060521180733.00cf6c50 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 18:07:33 From: CB Subject: Sound Levels >As I'm writing this=20 >I have 16 Taiko drums and 4 sets of symbols on=20 >stage, and my Smaart rig is reading 106dB in the=20 >centre of the house. 106? A weighted? C weighted? For how long? Continuous or peaks? OSHA Specifies not only a level, but a duration. If you're just getting the occasional 106 reading, and you're reading it A weighted, you should be just fine. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "RICHARD FINKELSTEIN" Subject: Resource for those who collect books Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 22:09:55 -0400 I have recently discovered a wonderful online resource that some or many of you may find valuable. Others who wouldn't can just ignore this The resource is LIBRARYTHING available at you guessed it... http://www.librarything.com/ At its most basic and simple level, it is a resource for those who care, to index their personal collections of books, but the code is extremely well written and so there are all sorts of fascinating features that go beyond "mere" indexing. Here are a few of the things that I have enjoyed with the system as I have started to use it. A. Unlike my earlier feeble attempts to start a personal index on my own, this system is highly automated. One need just enter an ISBN or Library of Congress number, or even a part of the title and author and the system connects with up to 30 or so giant databases and voila, all the info from author to publisher is automatically imported. So it only literally takes a few seconds to enter a book. B. Most of my rare and foreign books have so far been a snap to enter too. For one photography book I have from Japan, I just used the Japan/Amazon database with the ISBN and voila it filled in the title, authors, etc....in Japanese! . Any book not in the databases, can easilly be added by hand. C. For many books indexed a thumbnail view of the cover is also fetched allowing for virtual bookshelves. D. The system has a mysiad of ways of displaying and allows as well retrieval back as a database/spreadsheet file. E. There are a host of fascinating social interraction features. For instance you can see which other users share one or more books with you. I can actually think of some uses for that feature. F. The system allows for key word entry which also allows for many types of links with other users of the system. G. Your own collection is very very searchable. I plan to be able to add names of shows as keywords as I do future research, then it would be a snap to generate automatically a bibliography of research for any show I work on. H. The system can recommend other books on topics or even by analysis of your holdings. I. One can make one's collection public or private and one obvious interesting feature is that you have access to your database from any computer worldwide (except China I guess ) And many many more features. I bet this kind of listing would be useful in insurance situations. So far I have indexed almost 500 of my books which I guess is about 37% of the total. There are at least a few small public libraries that are testing the system for use as their official catalog. The price for use is great. The system is free for something like the first 200 books (I forget the exact number) but then the real cost too is low. $10 per year or $25 for lifetime use. I went with the lifetime membership. And unlike so many such online things you hardly need to enter any info at all to sign up! You have to give out more info just to purchase something at the register of Radio Shack! So there's my plug. It would be nice to see a few more theatre folk on the resource. Richard Finkelstein http://www.rfdesigns.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 22:15:10 -0400 From: "Josh Ratty" Subject: OT: Boy Scouts Reply-to: Message-id: <000901c67d45$917c84b0$6d02a8c0 [at] Rattys> Apologies for bandwith use. I know many on this list have some experience with the Boy Scouts of America. If any of you have experience with your summer program and facilities could please contact me off list, I am looking for some information. Thank you. Josh Ratty ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 22:26:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Altman Lens identification In-reply-to: Message-id: <4084.24.58.7.223.1148264818.squirrel [at] webmail.ithaca.edu> References: > --------------------------------------------------- > I have come across a rather large stack of Altman 360/360Q lens > Assemblies that are *not* marked in any way as to whether they are > x9's, x12's, x16's, etc.. is there a way to easily figure out what is > what? Wait for a sunny day. Take the assemblies outside and hold them so they focus the sun's rays on the ground. The distance from the ground to the center of the assembly is the focal length. Steve L. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3eb8da960605211932y5e110ecare2624d77917bc26 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 22:32:19 -0400 From: "Jason Cowperthwaite" Subject: Re: Altman Lens identification In-Reply-To: References:

I had a feeling that was going to be what it entailed, but was seriously hoping that there would be another way that did not rely on having sunshine? Jason Cowperthwaite On 5/21/06, Stephen Litterst wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > I have come across a rather large stack of Altman 360/360Q lens > > Assemblies that are *not* marked in any way as to whether they are > > x9's, x12's, x16's, etc.. is there a way to easily figure out what is > > what? > > Wait for a sunny day. Take the assemblies outside and hold them so they > focus the sun's rays on the ground. The distance from the ground to the > center of the assembly is the focal length. > > > Steve L. > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Thomas Schraeder" Subject: RE: Altman Lens identification Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 22:56:41 -0400 Any small source of light at a reasonable distance (25') will allow for measuring the focal length of a PC lens. Measure from the lens to where it has focused - gathered light and created an image of the source. Thats the focal length. After you've done a couple of them, you'll recognize them by thickness. Good luck. Tom Schraeder Lighting Design Wayne State University Theatre 4841 Cass Ave., Suite 3225 Detroit, MI 48202 313-577-7908 - office 313-577-0935 - fax >From: "Jason Cowperthwaite" >Reply-To: "Stagecraft" >To: "Stagecraft" >Subject: Altman Lens identification >Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 19:01:02 -0400 > >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >Hey all, > >I have come across a rather large stack of Altman 360/360Q lens >Assemblies that are *not* marked in any way as to whether they are >x9's, x12's, x16's, etc.. is there a way to easily figure out what is >what? > >thanks, > >Jason Cowperthwaite ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002e01c67d51$4cd861b0$6401a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" References: Subject: Re: Altman Lens identification Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 21:39:15 -0600 from a carp/rigger: is there a weight difference? couple oz. difference between? thinking postal scale... weight of a known one? my 2� worth Rob't >After you've done a couple of them, you'll recognize them by > thickness. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Schraeder" > >From: "Jason Cowperthwaite" > >x9's, x12's, x16's, etc.. is there a way to easily figure out what is > >what? > > > >thanks, > > > >Jason Cowperthwaite > > ------------------------------ From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com Message-ID: <326.4a72bc4.31a28cfc [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 23:41:48 EDT Subject: Re: Help: Fire Curtain Rules & Exceptions alderson writes: quoting Bill C: >Someone is suppose to be personally responsible for the > safety of the other people in the room. This is new and part of the > post-Station fire changes.) Mick replied: >Isn't this a bit of overkill (so to speak)? and: >Must they now hire a safety officer, or is the minister tagged? >How about other church services? Consider this recent real life case at the church I attend here in Orlando. Background: Post Station Club the local Authority Having Jurisdiction came through to inspect the sanctuary and other places of public assembly. Numerous new requirements were spelled out, among them - 1) UPS on the amplifier rack and on sound booth systems to ensure that communication with the congregation can be maintained even if the power fails. 2) New, more and louder fire alarm enunciators installed with an _automatic_ voice announcement stating that the system had detected a problem, please evacuate the building. Incident: Not too long after all this (and more) was completed, the system activated on Sunday morning during the choir's anthem. They were singing at full voice to an accompaniment recording with full instrumentation. Initially, no one noticed the announcement nor the alarm sounding. It was weaker than the program content. Those of us in the booth did notice an off key (yet on tempo) noise and began to wonder if (a) we were picking up a stray RF signal, (b) there was a fault in the recording track and/or (c) maybe this was the new alarm system going off. Since the little blinky lights were flashing, (none are in our line-of-sight to the platform) we elected to stop the sound track. The choir noticed this and gradually quit singing. NOW everyone could clearly hear the shrill horns and the automatic announcer calmly instructing everyone to leave the building. However, this kind of thing had NEVER, ever, happened before in the 17 years this building has been there. There was an initial reluctance among the crowd to believe that this was for real. They looked to the _live_ leadership on the platform for guidance. (Who is that voice anyway?) The initial response of the pastor was to tell everyone to sit tight while the facility administrator went to investigate the alarm panel for some indication of what the _real_ problem was. Some others in the assembly dissented and suggested that it would be better to err on the side of caution and get out. (We have a number of public safety officers in attendance - sheriff, police, fire, etc.) A calm and orderly evacuation occurred. However, NOW we have 600 plus people milling around outside the building exits and in the parking lot when the fire department shows up in full force and regalia. Several individuals had elected to stay in the building on their own to "investigate" what was going on. One of the actions taken was to kill the main power feed to the building. No one was a designated point person to communicate to the fire chief so there were various reports being given by various persons to various fire personnel. None of these are exactly what a cohort of firemen in full protective gear and respirators really needed to deal with initially. Aftermath: Turns out a bearing had seized in an air conditioner motor which overheated and introduced some smoke into the ductwork. The sensors detected it and triggered the automatic alarm. While there was not any actual fire, (with the power shut off the motor quit overheating) there was the distinct odor of burnt insulation near the source. There is no problem now convincing the leadership that we do need a safety plan and training for specific, designated, persons every time the doors are open. Before this incident, the new requirements were just viewed as another nuisance to put up with. We also now have an experienced core of congregants who will be more likely to heed the alarm the next time it is set off. Steve Vanciel Orlando, FL ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1257.205.215.255.185.1148272655.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 21:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Taiko Drums From: "Bill Nelson" > Largo Factotum offstage was 98db, a big loud passage in a Tchaikovsky > symphony was a steady 102db, and a cymbal crash measured 118db (which I'd > guess is probably not good, no matter how brief it may be). No claims to > great accuracy on these measurements, but an orchestra is definitely in > the "darn loud" ballpark at times. If I recall correctly, the SPL of a short duration impulse waveform (like a cymbol crash) has to get up around 130 dB or more for it to do immediate damage. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1301.205.215.255.185.1148273910.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 21:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Taiko Drums From: "Bill Nelson" > Yep, no question there. But six feet? My measurements are always from > the centre of the house (Sound console position) which is 70 feet from the > edge of the apron. So, since that's where I measure the rock concerts, for > comparative purposes I'd have to measure the symphony from the same > distance for it to have any real meaning. I'll have to do so next time - > unfortunately they aren't scheduled to be back 'till the fall. Hm. It has been a while since I have done SPL calculations, but I seem to recall that the level increases by 3 dB when you halve the distance. If that is the case, the 100 dB at 100 feet would be 103 dB at 35 feet, 106 dB at 17.5 feet and 109 dB at about 8 feet. Bill ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #816 *****************************