Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 31021952; Sat, 10 Jun 2006 03:01:21 -0700 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on localhost X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_RECEIVED, NO_RELAYS autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.3 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #840 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 03:00:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #840 1. Re: How to ground a moving sound system by Jerry Durand 2. New Tools by Shell Dalzell 3. Re: laser measure by Jerry Durand 4. Re: How to ground a moving sound system by Clive Mitchell 5. Re: Intelligent Falling by CB 6. Re: Asbestos Exposure by "Hall Associates Flying Effects" 7. Re: Dichroic Filters - WOW by Brendan Quigley 8. Re: 500 yards by CB 9. Re: How to ground a moving sound system by "Occy" 10. Re: 500 yards by Michael Sorensen 11. Re: New Tools by "Occy" 12. Re: 500 yards by "Michael Powers" 13. Re: 500 yards by "Alf Sauve" 14. ETC Effect help by Stuart Baulch 15. airplane by Judy 16. Mobil Generator Grounding by "Roger L. Lattin" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:01:34 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: How to ground a moving sound system In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060609165735.01f7f7e8 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 03:07 PM 6/9/2006, Clive Mitchell wrote: >In the case of a welding generator the actual welding supply is low >voltage at high current and the welders are often wearing heavy >gauntlets anyway, but that doesn't protect against the appliance power. My welder is 70+ volts open circuit, not exactly low (well, low as in power company terms of being less than 600V). Kneeling on damp ground can kill. >It's really common to see guys with generators in the back of their >truck and poorly maintained equipment. There's no point in even >trying to explain the danger. If they won't even take care of their >equipment then they aren't likely to bother with an earth rod or >plate. (Or RCD/GFI) So, how about someone with a well-maintained welder/generator used for both welding and power tools. Do you drive in a ground stake, work here, pull up the stake and move it 25 feet over there and hammer it back in, repeat all day? I'm looking for either the National code for this or a reasonable way to handle it. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <8C1EDB90-C7CA-48EB-9CF1-980A30B05AF2 [at] hawaii.rr.com> From: Shell Dalzell Subject: New Tools Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 14:08:45 -1000 Anybody purchase any new tools over the past year that they are really = happy with ?> =20 =20 Trey H=E4agen Arnold Hall Theatre I have bought the Rigid Brand Brad Nailer, Finish Nailer and Narrow Crown Staple Gun from Home Depot in the past year. I have used a combination of Senco, Porter Cable, Bostich and Hitachi for the last 25 years or so. The Rigid tools have the following features that I think are outstanding: Air exhaust is re-aimable instantly with no tools. You can dial in depth adjustment very easily. You can change from single shot to semi automatic in 2 seconds, no tools. The air hose connection swivels and has a sort of semi-universal joint feature. And my favorite feature: When you are out of bullets, the trigger locks. Don't know yet about service and/or life span, but so far so good. Aloha, Shell sdalzell [at] hawaii.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:11:55 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: laser measure In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060609170511.01f52378 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 03:33 PM 6/9/2006, Clive Mitchell wrote: >I'm not actually sure how it works. I can only make a wild guess >that it either uses a system like the human eyes to detect distance >or somehow measures the time it takes for the beam of light to >bounce back. I'm not sure you get light speed counters though. :) I haven't looked into the commercial units either, but you'd be surprised at what can be timed with modern chips. I designed a laser pulse shaper for one of the R&D laser companies. It generates a 0-6KV pulse which modulates the blob of light. The wave shape is entered free-form by simply drawing a graph on a PC. The entire pulse is a few tens of microseconds long and repeats at KHz rates. BTW, that is the only vacuum tube device I've ever designed (the output driver is a tube). The government is also really interested in what you want tubes like that for. :) -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 01:20:41 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: How to ground a moving sound system References:

In-Reply-To: In message , Jerry Durand writes >So, how about someone with a well-maintained welder/generator used for >both welding and power tools. Do you drive in a ground stake, work >here, pull up the stake and move it 25 feet over there and hammer it >back in, repeat all day? I guess an RCD/GFI on the appliance power is the easiest solution. Not sure what the code is in America. Not even 100% sure what it is in the UK for a combined welding and power generator on a truck. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060609174951.00c23c78 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 17:49:51 From: CB Subject: RE: Intelligent Falling >(BTW, is there an >easy way to rip those plastic containers built for the millennium?) Yeah, on your pocket tool...no... uhm, there is a lil scissor on your Swiss Army... uhm, no, there isn't. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Hall Associates Flying Effects" Subject: Re: Asbestos Exposure Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 19:53:42 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Steve My theatres at NIU were built in the late 50s/early 60s, so I have = asbestos in many different places as well. There are so many old buildings on = our campus that we actually have an "asbestos safety officer" that works in = the university's safety office. Based on my many conversations with her, I = feel that Clive is 100% correct. If your campus safety officer is coordinating the removal, I suggest consulting him with your concerns. If you have needs that conflict with = the removal (such as needing to keep your shop running during the time they = have scheduled the removal), just communicate your needs with the safety = officer and come to a compromise. In my case, our safety office and campus tradesmen have a clear understanding that they are here to support the activities of the = university (and our department), not hamper them, and they make every effort to accommodate us when we have a tight schedule. Likewise, we give them = the space they need when our schedules permit it. =20 In most cases, if you just let them know what you need, they are usually supportive. HTH Tracy=A0Nunnally Technical Director / Assistant Professor of Theatre Technology Northern Illinois University School of Theatre and Dance tnunnally [at] niu.edu Phone: 815-753-9342 Fax: 815-753-8415 www.niu.edu/theatre President - Hall Associates Flying Effects info [at] flyingfx.com Phone: 888-359-4255, Ext. 101 (888-FLY-HALL) Fax: 888-359-4255 www.flyingfx.com ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre and Arena " The asbestos on your pipe is probably the hard stuff where the = asbestos=20 itself is mixed in with a plaster. The dangerous asbestos is the uncontained blue asbestos that looks like=20 tumble dryer or vacuum cleaner fluff. It gets airborne very easily and=20 carries the highest risk of causing asbestosis. It can sometimes be=20 found inside the wall cavity of old cinemas between the projection booth = and auditorium. If the stuff round your pipes is being removed then I wouldn't get too=20 concerned about it. It's unlikely to have harmed anyone." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 20:57:40 -0400 From: Brendan Quigley Subject: Re: Dichroic Filters - WOW In-reply-to: Message-id: References: Bill Nelson tapped: > Try contacting GAM, Rosco and Lee directly and see what they have > to say. Might I also suggest In Light ... based in Dallas, made up of mostly ex-Vari*Lite employees. High quality stuff, and reasonably priced last time I checked. Their quality is the same as the old, ORIGINAL V*L products, and I can't recommend them highly enough. Scott Green used to be my contact ... I'd put contact info here, but I've got a cue coming up so I can't look them up on the internet ... damn skit keeps getting in the way ... Kind Regards, Brendan C. Quigley Head Electrician / Vari*Lite Technician WICKED - A New Broadway Musical ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060609180820.00c23c78 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 18:08:20 From: CB Subject: Re: 500 yards >Their accuracy at 500 yards is >questionable. Effective range on the M-16A2 (IIRC, the last time I qualified was quite a while ago) is 460 M. They should begin to suck at about 500 yards. That's what the M-60 is all about! Most stages of Marine Corp quali's on the range (the annual) are at 200yds, some at 300yds, and stage five is, in fact, prone, slow fire, 500yds. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: How to ground a moving sound system Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 18:34:15 -0700 Ok was looking in my old code books NEC and MSHA dated 1990 (I sure a few things have changed but normally not that much just clean up of the way it was stated). MSHA requires chassis bonding when a trailing cable is attached to the mobile equipment and using house power. NEC this for R/V's closes thing I could up for a parade floats. Inverters hand to be chassis bonded. Gennies all ground to panelboard, not bonded in panelboard and gennie or bonded to chassis. I am sure that changed by now. I should buy the new Nec code some day but I get most of the changes via email. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Durand" > My welder is 70+ volts open circuit, not exactly low (well, low as in > power company terms of being less than 600V). Kneeling on damp > ground can kill. > > >It's really common to see guys with generators in the back of their > >truck and poorly maintained equipment. There's no point in even > >trying to explain the danger. If they won't even take care of their > >equipment then they aren't likely to bother with an earth rod or > >plate. (Or RCD/GFI) > > So, how about someone with a well-maintained welder/generator used > for both welding and power tools. Do you drive in a ground stake, > work here, pull up the stake and move it 25 feet over there and > hammer it back in, repeat all day? > > I'm looking for either the National code for this or a reasonable way > to handle it. > > > -- > Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com > 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA > tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 > Skype: jerrydurand > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060610013737.62994.qmail [at] web50715.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 18:37:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Sorensen Subject: Re: 500 yards In-Reply-To: <wrote: >The fact that this >shooter was a sniper means he might have been using a Remington 700 - an >even more accurate weapon. >...and a scope. Very seldom will a sniper take the shot at 1500' without it. I'm gonna guess that he had it on the rifle, and I'm gonna have to see a 3" group at 1500' *without* a scope before I'm buying it. Pima Mine Road, Mike? Or is there someplace closer to your house? Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Sorry, should have been more specific. The weapon was a Remington 700 customized for him with scope (don't remember aperture?) and had that cool Russian stock. The grouping was shot on the Fort Campbell shooting range in Tennessee. I was invited on base with some friends who were taking the courses (having friends who are in the military is FUN!) and the instructors were doing demos. The day was pretty windy, which was why I confidently (and mistakenly) shot my mouth off and bet a case of scotch to to anyone who "could hit that target way down there in the middle ten times in two minutes," figuring it would take at least that long to calculate for windage, or at least wait for the gusts to settle down. One of the instructors, Mark Knapus (Knopus?) said "I'll take that bet," went to prone position and two minutes later I was on my way to the liquor store. He was gracious enough to share two of the bottles with us afterwards, and I was fortunate enough to fire off a SAW, M-60, and one of the .50 cal sniper rifles (didn't hit anything, I still jerk the trigger too often...gotta work on that). Automatic weapons are FUN!!! But he was hitting a man sized target in the chest at a mile and a half (3000 yards) with half a bottle of scotch in him, no less! He also shared a few stories about Latin America during the Reagan years that didn't make it into the papers... Maybe you all know better marksmen, but I was suitably impressed and very happy he's on our side. My second favorite bumper sticker of all time says, "Remember, at any time, at any place, our snipers can drop you." Oh, and why a Marine instructor on an Army base? One of the regular instructors broke his leg on a fast-roping drill out of a chopper so he called up an old friend...see, Army and Marines can play together! BTW Chris, the closest range to me is The Final Option, on Valencia. Haven't been there yet, but I could be persuaded to pop over one of these weekends. Michael Sorensen Proton Lighting and Video "We positively charge up your show!" Phone: 520-232-3540 Email: chaoscon666 [at] yahoo.com "It's all just a scam, isn't it? You get those actors to put on a show, just so you can have a good reason to play with your toys." --Christopher Stasheff, "A Slight Detour" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: New Tools Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 19:02:57 -0700 The trigger lock when empty. That will save a time and bad words. I like it! too bad I went Bostich a while ago. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shell Dalzell" > --------------------------------------------------- > > Anybody purchase any new tools over the past year that they are really = > happy with ?> =20 > =20 > Trey H=E4agen > Arnold Hall Theatre > > I have bought the Rigid Brand Brad Nailer, Finish Nailer and Narrow > Crown Staple Gun from Home Depot in the past year. I have used a > combination of Senco, Porter Cable, Bostich and Hitachi for the last > 25 years or so. > > The Rigid tools have the following features that I think are > outstanding: > > Air exhaust is re-aimable instantly with no tools. > > You can dial in depth adjustment very easily. > > You can change from single shot to semi automatic in 2 seconds, no > tools. > > The air hose connection swivels and has a sort of semi-universal > joint feature. > > And my favorite feature: When you are out of bullets, the trigger > locks. > > Don't know yet about service and/or life span, but so far so good. > > Aloha, Shell > sdalzell [at] hawaii.rr.com > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <58f67b0f0606091950s6e72c9e9obab3b7a182138fce [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 21:50:32 -0500 From: "Michael Powers" Subject: Re: Re: 500 yards Steve Larson writes: <> Steve, Well, first of all, even as a "not currently active" Marine, I can garen-damn-tee you that the Marines are a LOT different from the army, rifle qualifying or otherwise. I qualified expert marksman and like every Marine boot, it included firing prone from 500 yds. Although that was a couple of weeks ago ('66) I can't imagine the Corps backing off on that part of training, any recent or currently active duty Marines are welcome to correct me if I'm wrong. Though, for Nam and probably now, the value of the 500 yard training was(is) discipline, as 50 yds was possibly the most distant target I ever fired on and 20-30 yds was probably closer to the norm. According to the Marine Corps, the only questionable things about the M-16 weapon were 1. the marksman 2. his training, and as we found out, 3. the early versions had a real reliability problem when exposed to the elements. If you were a Marine, that took care problems 1 & 2. I understand later versions of the weapon took care problem 3. -- Michael Michael Powers Director of Operations Central Lighting & Equipment 1720 Fuller Rd. Suite 150 West Des Moines Iowa 50265 515-277-4190 877-977-4190 Fax 515-277-2295 515-557-0178 cell michael [at] clelights.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <05fd01c68c3a$268e7560$6501a8c0 [at] ALFOFFICE> Reply-To: "Alf Sauve" From: "Alf Sauve" References: Subject: Re: 500 yards Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 23:00:58 -0400 I'm missing something. Check my math. 1,500 ft at an angle of 0.5 degrees SIN(0.5)*1500ft*12in/ft = 157inches The Rule of Thumb I've used is 1/60of a degree works out to about 1" at 100yds. From: "CB" > > at fifteen hundred feet, a half a degree of deflection would be an inch > and > a half in either direction, making the group three inches wide, ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 23:19:38 -0400 Subject: ETC Effect help References: <1149909581.15F40DCA [at] dg12.dngr.org> From: Stuart Baulch Message-Id: <1149909583.24039708 [at] fb4.dngr.org> I'm just completely stuck on this one... We're using an ETC Expression III system with Emphasis. We're trying to have a flicker effect fade-out but still flicker while the levels diminish during the fade-out. What keeps happening is that the fade-out is grabbing the channels at whatever level they happen to be at then do a straight fade out from that point (if I'm explaining that clearly) Similar effects occur three times in the show and they're all simple ( 2 channels and between 5 and 7 steps per effect) I've tried it as an effect cue, an effect sub and a sub-on-sub (subroutine on submaster) with the same result. With the sub-on-sub I could manually get the desired result by pulling down the submaster. However, we're going to be using SFX showcontrol to run the desk so I'm looking to automate this. Any suggestions as to what I'm missing would be greatly appreciated as we have our first preview tomorrow night. Thanks, Stuart B ------------------------------ Message-ID: <448A76ED.5070800 [at] post.tau.ac.il> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 09:38:21 +0200 From: Judy Subject: airplane >On my last flight via Northwest (August 2006), they only offered >complimentary beverages (soda, water, tea, coffee) and made you pay >for a box of snacks. Hey what kind of plane was that? What year did you take off then? I wouldn't mind paying for the snacks if it meant I could go back in time. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <005301c68c5b$c26a0b40$c4917f18 [at] ia728e3ywia8a8> From: "Roger L. Lattin" References: Subject: Mobil Generator Grounding Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 00:01:51 -0700 The NEC (National Electrical Code) states that any plug and cord connected vehicle mounted generator 5kW or less need NOT be grounded (Earthed). The generator shall be bonded to the frame of the vehicle. Most new putt putts(generators 6kW or less) have GFCIs built in. One way that I would conect valuable audio equipment up to a small generator is to use several small computer battery type UPSs between the generator and the equipment. This keeps all of the weird power away from the audio equipment. A properly wired audio system will not hum and buzz. I would set-up everything several days ahead of time to test if you have hums and buzzes trouble shoot by the process of elimination. Where most system noise comes from is conecting pro, semi-pro and consumer gear together with improperly made interconecting cables. Out here in the Wild wild west (Hollywood) we use a lot of portable blimped generators. The AHJ (Authority Having Juristiction) specifically has us isolate all of our equipment from earth (NOT GROUNDED) since this has been in practice I have not heard of any accidents. The generator frame acts as the grounding plane. All of the equipment is bonded back to the generator through the green wire to allow the over-current devices to protect against short circuits and other problems. When we shoot inside of a building and the seperatly derived power systems may come in contact with each other we bond the generator(s) to the house or building's service entrance ground rod(s). Our local chapter of the IAEI (International Alliance of Electrical Inspectors) had a UL(Underwriters Laboratories) Sr. engineer come in and give us a talk about generator grounding and bonding. The basic premise of the talk was to isolate the system or bond it to a "house" system. The ESTA electrical power working group is currently collecting information from both camps and will do a reccommended practice for grounding or bonding seperatly derived power systems in the next several years. If you ask 10 electrical engineers how to ground or bond a system you will get 15+ different answers. I believe that each seperate system or use of a power system requires a qualified and knoledgeable person to set up the power system, with the ability to shut down the system with out retrobution from the producer. Currently there is too many opinions and not enough facts to adiquitly guage the grounding/bonding PORTABLE POWER SYSTEMS quagmire. Lots of research is needed before we can come up with a good set of guidelines for our industries. Untill that work is completed do what the AHJ asks; " Arguing with an electrical inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, after your second fall you relize the pig enjoys it!"- Roger L. Lattin / IATSE Local 728 Studio Set Lighting Technicians, Hollywood California ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #840 *****************************