Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 34708616; Mon, 11 Sep 2006 03:01:30 -0700 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS,TW_WH autolearn=ham version=3.1.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.5 (2006-08-29) on localhost X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #945 Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 03:00:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #945 1. Re: Handicapped access by "Bill Nelson" 2. Re: ADA and box office question by "Bill Nelson" 3. Re: ADA and box office question by Steve Larson 4. Re: Handicapped access by "tracy fitch" 5. Don't forget to remember by Herrick Goldman 6. Re: Soundmixer to follow cues by Jerry Durand 7. Rederworks 12 help! by "Jason Cowperthwaite" 8. Re: Herrick's Test by Frederick Frank 9. Re: Herrick's Test by Herrick Goldman 10. Re: Lighting question by Rigger 11. Re: Herrick's Test by Rigger 12. Re: Herrick's Test by Rigger 13. Re: Rederworks 12 help! by Kevin Lee Allen 14. Re: Rederworks 12 help! by "Jason Cowperthwaite" 15. Re: Herrick's Test by Clive Mitchell 16. Re: Lighting question by Clive Mitchell 17. Re: Herrick's Test by Rigger 18. Re: Rederworks 12 help! by "Kevin Linzey" 19. Re: Rederworks 12 help! by Kevin Lee Allen 20. Wheelchair incident. by Clive Mitchell 21. Cheerleader. by Clive Mitchell 22. Re: RE colour blind et seq.- a sharp remonstration by CB 23. Looking for Crown 311 mics by CB 24. Re: Wheelchair incident. by Rigger 25. Re: Wheelchair incident. by Jerry Durand 26. Re: Wheelchair incident. by Bruce Purdy 27. Re: disabled by CB 28. Re: RE colour blind et seq.- a sharp remonstration by Jerry Durand 29. Re: disabled by Rigger 30. Re: Wheelchair incident. by Rigger 31. Re: Hullo's Quotes by CB 32. Re: Lighting question by CB 33. Re: Hullo's Quotes by Rigger 34. Re: Cheerleader. by "Tony Deeming" 35. Re: Rederworks 12 help! by "Jason Cowperthwaite" 36. Re: disabled by "Michael Finney" 37. Re: disabled by "Jon Ares" 38. Re: Hullo's Quotes by megironda [at] att.net (Gerry G.) 39. Re: Herrick's Test by Herrick Goldman 40. Cheerleaders (was Herrick's Test) by "Michael Powers" 41. Re: Hullo's Quotes by Herrick Goldman *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <1247.205.215.254.180.1157901893.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 08:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Handicapped access From: "Bill Nelson" > I would say "well....the gear is very very heavy, and > if dropped might fall on someone and break them, or at > least ruin the backs of the 4 people that are going to > have to lift it, as I said it is very heavy, SO....why > don't you get down below where the gear will fall and > give us a hand, or say, unlock the elevator and save 4 > people from having to use it in the future because you > will not let them use it now." Hm. Thinking about it, there might be a better solution. Make up a rolling cart for the equipment that will fit into the elevator, then just use the elevator. If there is a complaint, inform the complainant that the gear is too heavy to safely carry - which is why it is on a cart. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1264.205.215.254.180.1157902884.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 08:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: ADA and box office question From: "Bill Nelson" > My question is this: how do other FOH staff (particularly box office) > utilize these, with reserve seating? It the two spaces where I do work, all tickets are reserved. Pat has already answered how ACT handles the seats. At CCT, we have an on-line ticket purchase system, as well as sales at the door. If the wheelchair seating is all sold out on-line, then none will be available for that performance for door sales. This is no different than for any of the other seating. If there are unsold seats, then they are available for door sales the evening of the performance. The ADA regulations, fortunately, do not require that we guarantee seating for all handicapped who would like to see a particular performance. By the way, I think someone stated they have 5 wheelchair accessible seats out of a total seating capacity of 500+. The requirement is at least 6 for 301 - 599 capacity. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 11:49:56 -0400 Subject: Re: ADA and box office question From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: We seat 244 in a flexible space. We use the ETix ticketing system for our shows. The front row is handled solely through our box office. You cannot purchase a front row seat on-line. It is sold at the discretion of the box office personnel. The seats are removable so a wheel chair can be placed there. If for some reason the front rows are all sold out by performance and someone comes to the door in a wheelchair, we try to reschedule them for a later performance. Had no problems thus far. Sold out is sold out, handicapped or not. By the way, ETix rocks. Steve > From: "Bill Nelson" > Reply-To: "Stagecraft" > Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 08:41:24 -0700 (PDT) > To: "Stagecraft" > Subject: Re: ADA and box office question > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >> My question is this: how do other FOH staff (particularly box office) >> utilize these, with reserve seating? > > It the two spaces where I do work, all tickets are reserved. Pat has > already answered how ACT handles the seats. > > At CCT, we have an on-line ticket purchase system, as well as sales at the > door. If the wheelchair seating is all sold out on-line, then none will be > available for that performance for door sales. This is no different than > for any of the other seating. If there are unsold seats, then they are > available for door sales the evening of the performance. > > The ADA regulations, fortunately, do not require that we guarantee seating > for all handicapped who would like to see a particular performance. > > By the way, I think someone stated they have 5 wheelchair accessible seats > out of a total seating capacity of 500+. The requirement is at least 6 for > 301 - 599 capacity. > > Bill > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <884366db0609100930k25daec2bgd52b48affaf3d3d1 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 12:30:10 -0400 From: "tracy fitch" Subject: Re: Handicapped access In-Reply-To: References:

On 9/10/06, Bill Nelson wrote: > Hm. Thinking about it, there might be a better solution. Make up a rolling > cart for the equipment that will fit into the elevator, then just use the > elevator. If there is a complaint, inform the complainant that the gear is > too heavy to safely carry - which is why it is on a cart. I've always been pretty sensitive to wheelchair accessiblity issues, having spent years helping a grandfather roll around before the ADA. I still use wheelchair lifts for moving equipment, I just try to make sure the weight is around a heavy person plus a wheelchair on each trip. I've only had to explain why I thought it appropriate twice. To each complainant I pointed out that my regular testing of the lift meant a problem would be found and corrected before there was a patron waiting to use it. No issues after that. --Tracy S. Fitch ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 12:43:40 -0400 Subject: Don't forget to remember From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: Hey folks. Sometime in the next 36 hours, walk by your local Police, Fire, EMS station and shake a hand and tell them "thank you". -Herrick -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 11:08:51 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Soundmixer to follow cues In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20060910110609.01f02b00 [at] interstellar.com> References:

At 08:14 AM 9/9/2006, Byron Lovelace wrote: >Film stock had gotten faster, they were using more, smaller lamps, >and having to use the same standing sets lit the same way day in and >day out. Maybe it put an electrician or two out of work, I don't >know - I know several of the older guys were angry or wary - but it >sure made sense and saved a lot work trying to match looks from >different days that had to cut together, and made it possible to >move more quickily through our shot list and get more done in a shorter day. We have a bunch of our 4201 controllers in TV studios, they like that they set the levels with a laptop and save it to memory. Without the laptop there's no knobs for people to fiddle with so the 10 o'clock news looks the same every night. There are also 4 of them in a studio doing blinky lights for game shows. I think the appeal there is cost in addition to the lights blinking the same way every day. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3eb8da960609101112p6ff2954dh98f09c01d4e03012 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:12:36 -0400 From: "Jason Cowperthwaite" Subject: Rederworks 12 help! Hey folks, Trying to use Renderworks and am running into trouble with gobo projection. I create a lighting instrument with an assigned gobo, and have set up the custom renderworks settings exactly as the manual asks for, but when I render with these settings, i get nothing. Rendering with "Renderworks w/ shadows" or any other Renderworks rendering mode gets me the light, but with no pattern, just the open beam. The lighting instrument, focus point and all scenery are all on the same layer. I am using vectorworks 12.0.1 on a windows XP machine. Can anyone help? Thanks, Jason ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 13:14:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Frederick Frank Subject: Re: Herrick's Test In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, Clive Mitchell wrote: > I've lost my place here... Is it the cheerleader that has had a shave before > heading over to Daves place? Yes, and Her name is Herrick... -- ---------------------- freelance technician (entertainment industry) boston, ma frederick [at] frederickfrank.com www.frederickfrank.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:40:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Herrick's Test From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Yeah but she's not me. I'm only available for Dave. On 9/10/06 2:14 PM, "Frederick Frank" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > On Fri, 8 Sep 2006, Clive Mitchell wrote: > >> I've lost my place here... Is it the cheerleader that has had a shave before >> heading over to Daves place? > -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:40:53 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Lighting question At 6:08 AM +0000 9/10/06, Benjamin Eastep wrote: >1)we didn't like the look of any of the conventional lighting effects we >tried first because they didn't look flickery enough, but then again, this >is likely related to the extremely slow response time of the DIMMERS we were >using... I was about to suggest this might be a perfect application for some of those high-zoot LED fixtures I keep hearing about... Whap; it's on! Whap; it's off! -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net Discipline is never an end in itself, only a means to an end. -- Robert Fripp ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:44:46 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Herrick's Test At 2:40 PM -0400 9/10/06, Herrick Goldman wrote: >>> I've lost my place here... Is it the cheerleader that has had >>> a shave before heading over to Daves place? > > Yeah but she's not me. I'm only available for Dave. And now, ladies, and gentlemen, you know why I own firearms. -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net "Surely we were all just ignorant, hairy monkeys until Google came into being." --Andrew Duthie ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:50:15 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Herrick's Test At 2:44 PM -0400 9/10/06, Rigger wrote: >>>> I've lost my place here... Is it the cheerleader that has had >>>> a shave before heading over to Daves place? >> >> Yeah but she's not me. I'm only available for Dave. > > And now, ladies, and gentlemen, you know why I own firearms. Stuart Wheaton: Does this explain the 2605-32X well enough for ya? -- -Dave Vick Just another guy on the edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 16:46:34 -0400 From: Kevin Lee Allen Subject: Re: Rederworks 12 help! In-reply-to: Message-id: <44BA6230-4F0F-4A47-B4DC-87392634A64F [at] klad.com> References: do you have a focus object assigned to the light? Is the light turned on? On Sep 10, 2006, at 2:12 PM, Jason Cowperthwaite wrote: > Trying to use Renderworks and am running into trouble with gobo > projection. > > I create a lighting instrument with an assigned gobo, and have set up > the custom renderworks settings exactly as the manual asks for, but > when I render with these settings, i get nothing. Rendering with > "Renderworks w/ shadows" or any other Renderworks rendering mode gets > me the light, but with no pattern, just the open beam. > > The lighting instrument, focus point and all scenery are all on the > same layer. I am using vectorworks 12.0.1 on a windows XP machine. ----- Kevin Lee Allen Architect of Dreams http://www.klad.com 973.744.6352.voice 201.280.3841.mobile klad [at] klad.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3eb8da960609101352o45c37c93tda48995dbc66db5a [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 16:52:54 -0400 From: "Jason Cowperthwaite" Subject: Re: Rederworks 12 help! In-Reply-To: References:

Yes and Yes. Thats what is so odd... usually this type of question should be a RTFM response... but I did and it dont work. Thanks! Jason On 9/10/06, Kevin Lee Allen wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > do you have a focus object assigned to the light? > > Is the light turned on? > > > On Sep 10, 2006, at 2:12 PM, Jason Cowperthwaite wrote: > > > Trying to use Renderworks and am running into trouble with gobo > > projection. > > > > I create a lighting instrument with an assigned gobo, and have set up > > the custom renderworks settings exactly as the manual asks for, but > > when I render with these settings, i get nothing. Rendering with > > "Renderworks w/ shadows" or any other Renderworks rendering mode gets > > me the light, but with no pattern, just the open beam. > > > > The lighting instrument, focus point and all scenery are all on the > > same layer. I am using vectorworks 12.0.1 on a windows XP machine. > > > ----- > Kevin Lee Allen > Architect of Dreams > http://www.klad.com > 973.744.6352.voice > 201.280.3841.mobile > klad [at] klad.com > > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 21:53:24 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: Herrick's Test References:

In-Reply-To: In message , Rigger writes >>>> I've lost my place here... Is it the cheerleader that has had >>>> a shave before heading over to Daves place? >> >> Yeah but she's not me. I'm only available for Dave. > > >And now, ladies, and gentlemen, you know why I own firearms. Is it so you can say:- "Get down on your knees and suck it or I'll blow your brains out son." Obviously implying that the silly little boy has dropped his ice cream on your new carpet and you wish him to get down and gobble it up before it makes the shag all sticky. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 21:55:31 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: Lighting question References:

In-Reply-To: In message , Rigger writes >>1)we didn't like the look of any of the conventional lighting effects we >>tried first because they didn't look flickery enough, but then again, this >>is likely related to the extremely slow response time of the DIMMERS we were >>using... > > >I was about to suggest this might be a perfect application for some of >those high-zoot LED fixtures I keep hearing about... > >Whap; it's on! Whap; it's off! What was going through my mind was the idea of writing a TV screen emulator for my little RGB FX controller so that it swaps back and forth between random colours to emulate changing scenes. Somehow I don't think there'd be enough demand to justify that program though. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 17:19:02 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Herrick's Test At 9:53 PM +0100 9/10/06, Clive Mitchell wrote: >>>>> I've lost my place here... Is it the cheerleader that has had >>>>> a shave before heading over to Daves place? >>> >>> Yeah but she's not me. I'm only available for Dave. >> >> And now, ladies, and gentlemen, you know why I own firearms. > > Is it so you can say:- "Get down on your knees and suck it or > I'll blow your brains out son." > Obviously implying that the silly little boy has dropped his > ice cream on your new carpet and you wish him to get down and > gobble it up before it makes the shag all sticky. Why, look at the time! Is this my coat? Right; I'll be going now... -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net The only good thing to come out of Religion was the music. ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Rederworks 12 help! Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 17:32:11 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Kevin Linzey" Jason, Try increasing the Recursion Level to something like 10. 2 is the minimum to make it work with a simple light. If there is other geometry it may take more then 2 bounces to get the light in the right direction. Also try Final Quality Renderworks. Kevin =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf=20 > Of Jason Cowperthwaite > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 2:13 PM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Rederworks 12 help! >=20 > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see=20 > > --------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Hey folks, >=20 > Trying to use Renderworks and am running into trouble with=20 > gobo projection. >=20 > I create a lighting instrument with an assigned gobo, and=20 > have set up the custom renderworks settings exactly as the=20 > manual asks for, but when I render with these settings, i get=20 > nothing. Rendering with "Renderworks w/ shadows" or any=20 > other Renderworks rendering mode gets me the light, but with=20 > no pattern, just the open beam. >=20 > The lighting instrument, focus point and all scenery are all=20 > on the same layer. I am using vectorworks 12.0.1 on a=20 > windows XP machine. >=20 > Can anyone help? >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Jason >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 17:45:25 -0400 From: Kevin Lee Allen Subject: Re: Rederworks 12 help! In-reply-to: Message-id: <83BB7407-917D-4C1C-A540-0F76AC92E8FB [at] klad.com> References:

I agree. Are there many other lights? What is the instrument symbol in question, I have found that some symbols do not render. On Sep 10, 2006, at 5:32 PM, Kevin Linzey wrote: > Also try Final Quality Renderworks. ----- Kevin Lee Allen Architect of Dreams http://www.klad.com 973.744.6352.voice 201.280.3841.mobile klad [at] klad.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:46:33 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Wheelchair incident. And just in case you though disabled means delicate.... http://my.break.com/Media/View.aspx?ContentID=111947 -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3FnYj$JwXIBFFwBv [at] ntlworld.com> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:38:56 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Cheerleader. Just in case anyone now things that cheerleader is some fancy name for a rent boy, here's an example of a real cheerleader in action. Obviously things didn't go quite to plan but....... http://www.break.com/index/cheerleader_accident_caught_live.html -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060910144630.00c49360 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:46:30 From: CB Subject: RE: RE colour blind et seq.- a sharp remonstration >At the risk of being branded a humourless and politically correct >person, I must say that there is a point at which we have to draw a >line and its been overstepped. A joke is a joke, and I do understand >that it might well have been intended as such, but in the UK jokes >of this kind are rightly considered a police- reportable hate crime. What Clive did was use dark humor to starkly contrast the PC liberal attitudes of today vis-a-vis: Making the world a better place for those less fortunate than us. It was, if you will, a piece of theatre. It si unfortunate that this kind of political/social satire is looked uposn as a "police-reportable hate crime" in the UK. Here, we refer to it as 'theatre', and sometimes 'freedom of speech'. If you wish to continue working in the arts, it is something that you may want to learn to tolerate. Freedom is a thing that is hardest to allow someone else to have when you disagree with them. If you find it difficult to allow those with differing opinions to espouse them, you may not have a proper grasp of the term. Clive is funny, not politically correct (by a wide margin), and there is a kernal of truth in what he says. Look for the kernals, and don't be distracted by the flash. Clive, never stop. If we can't at ourselves, the only possible solution is to eradicate the race. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060910145123.00c49360 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 14:51:23 From: CB Subject: Looking for Crown 311 mics > One of our upcoming shows specs these >and our audio guy can't find them anywhere Call the road guy. Either he has an acceptable substitute, a place that you can get them, or (more likely) a preference for a whle 'nuther mic since that rider was last updated. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 18:04:03 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Wheelchair incident. At 10:46 PM +0100 9/10/06, Clive Mitchell wrote: >And just in case you though disabled means delicate.... > >http://my.break.com/Media/View.aspx?ContentID=111947 If you though disabled means delicate, go rent "Murderball" when it comes out on DVD November 29th. -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net I almost don't feel the way I do, only more so. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 15:07:49 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Wheelchair incident. In-reply-to: Message-id: References: On Sep 10, 2006, at 2:46 PM, Clive Mitchell wrote: > And just in case you though disabled means delicate.... I have a friend who's a doctor and is out in her wheelchair every day racing up and down the streets, she gets more exercise than I do! She loves going cross-country, too. She has a special chair for that. ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <797F8614-1789-42A7-ACF9-B7E37CB1441C [at] rochester.rr.com> From: Bruce Purdy Subject: Re: Wheelchair incident. Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 18:17:36 -0400 On 10 Sep 2006, at 17:46, Clive Mitchell wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see stagecraft.theprices.net/> > --------------------------------------------------- > > And just in case you though disabled means delicate.... > > http://my.break.com/Media/View.aspx?ContentID=111947 Along that line, Check out the documentary film "Murderball" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0436613/ Bruce ____________________ Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060910150901.00c49360 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 15:09:01 From: CB Subject: Re: disabled >Here's where we part ways, though... That's not merely weak, it's a >*LOUSY* analogy, Chris. No one that I know of made a conscious >decision to become handicapped, and no one that I know of became >accidently drunk against their will. I'm afraid you'll have to do >better than that. You're suggesting that being a drunk is a choice, and not a disease. I know both kinds. Nature, nurture, bad genes or bad habits, if you'll stipulate, for the purposes of the analogy that alcoholism is a disease and no 'fault' of the victim, the analogy works. If you don't, then no, it doesn't work at all. I'm not sure which it is, and that's why you got the caveat, but play along just for this analogy, wouldja? I jsut got off a 36 hour dog emergency, either a stroke, 'idiomatic geriatric canine vestibular disease' (translated, means that your old dog has a bit of vertigo suddenly and we have no idea why...) or a middle ear infection. The symptoms were very shocking, and led to sleepless nights and many trips to vetrinary specialists. All while packing up for a show to the left coast. Tomorrow... I'll do better with more sleep. Lessee, the cast part has two actors and a rigger that are recovering alcoholics (THEATRE PEOPLE?!? Say it ain't so Unka Dave!) so there won't be any beer or wine. Same goes for the opening night party. Yeah, right... The whole thing comes down to levels of silliness. Shutting down an old theatre because the renovations (the old one was grandfathered) didn't include a ramp (For some reason, the one in the back off the alley will no longer qualify) because it would require the use of property owned by the city, or owned by another business, and their isn't $180,000 in the budget left after the renovations (although, the plans were approved before the work began...) is just silly. I'm talking about the single complainer that gets a place shut down so that no one can use it, just because it isn't compliant to their satisfaction. I've carried my share of wheelchairs. Lots of them. I get making the world an accessable place. I'm an advocate. I hate the self-loathing, world hating, 'this isn't fair so I'm gonna make everyone else as miserable as I am', small minded disabled individual that weilds their disability as a weapon, because they make the world a harder place for everyone but them. Especially harder for other disabled folk. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 15:29:36 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: RE colour blind et seq.- a sharp remonstration In-reply-to: Message-id: References: On Sep 10, 2006, at 2:46 PM, CB wrote: > the only possible solution is > to eradicate the race. Isn't that what government is for? To protect us from "THEM!"? (In the long run, "them" is always "us".) ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 18:31:03 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: disabled At 3:09 PM -0400 9/10/06, CB wrote: >You're suggesting that being a drunk is a choice, and not a disease. I >know both kinds. Nature, nurture, bad genes or bad habits, if you'll >stipulate, for the purposes of the analogy that alcoholism is a disease and >no 'fault' of the victim, the analogy works. If you don't, then no, it >doesn't work at all. Okay, I guess I tend to differentiate between "drunks" and "alcoholics." One's a lifestyle choice, t'other is a disease. That's where you lost me; in the terminology. -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net Not only do I not know what's going on; I wouldn't know what to do about it if I did. ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 18:31:59 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Wheelchair incident. At 6:17 PM -0400 9/10/06, Bruce Purdy wrote: >> And just in case you though disabled means delicate.... >> http://my.break.com/Media/View.aspx?ContentID=111947 > > Along that line, Check out the documentary film "Murderball" > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0436613/ GMTA -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net "Jumping is easy and falling is fun... Right up 'til you hit the sidewalk, shivering and stunned" --Ani DiFranco ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060910153121.00c49360 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 15:31:21 From: CB Subject: Re: Hullo's Quotes >If we want to discuss this further, may I suggest we take it off-list? Boy howdy! He has been away a while, hasn't he? Hey, Dave, we regularly discuss along the lines of the forbidden four. Along with the ongoing discussions about the best beer and barbecue, religion, sex, money and politics have been reviewed ad infinitum. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060910153515.00c49360 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 15:35:15 From: CB Subject: Re: Lighting question >I mean, come on...while is sure feels like it sometimes, you can't >possibly have worked 28 hrs in one day!! While working nights-for-day, I was the Production Sound Mixer, Best Boy Electrician, Weapons master, and various other ad hoc positions PRN. 'Seasy to get more than 28 hours in! Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 19:17:16 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Hullo's Quotes At 3:31 PM -0400 9/10/06, CB wrote: >>If we want to discuss this further, may I suggest we take it off-list? > >Boy howdy! He has been away a while, hasn't he? Hey, Dave, we regularly >discuss along the lines of the forbidden four. Along with the ongoing >discussions about the best beer and barbecue, religion, sex, money and >politics have been reviewed ad infinitum. Yeah, sex and politics are one thing, but if you want to talk about Freemasonry, I'm not going to do so on-list. -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net The reason they call it "The American Dream" is because you have to be asleep to believe in it. ------------------------------ From: "Tony Deeming" Subject: RE: Cheerleader. Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 01:03:50 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: JEEZ! I winced at that one!!! 8-((( > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Clive > Mitchell > Sent: 10 September 2006 22:39 > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Cheerleader. > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Just in case anyone now things that cheerleader is some fancy name for a > rent boy, here's an example of a real cheerleader in action. > > Obviously things didn't go quite to plan but....... > > http://www.break.com/index/cheerleader_accident_caught_live.html > > -- > Clive Mitchell > http://www.bigclive.com > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3eb8da960609101759k707f6347k86017b665149b34f [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 20:59:37 -0400 From: "Jason Cowperthwaite" Subject: Re: Rederworks 12 help! In-Reply-To: References:

Okay... so I will respond to both emails at once to save bandwidth... The instruments in question are a Altman 6x9 and a source4 50-degree. Both are, as far as I remember, the stock symbols provided with the program. There are 2 spotlight lighting instruments in the document, and approx. 5 light objects (no instrument) present. Tried it at recursion level 10, no dice. Tried final Quality renderworks, no dice. I need to be careful to not throw something. Jason On 9/10/06, Kevin Lee Allen wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I agree. Are there many other lights? > > What is the instrument symbol in question, I have found that some > symbols do not render. > > > On Sep 10, 2006, at 5:32 PM, Kevin Linzey wrote: > > > Also try Final Quality Renderworks. > > > ----- > Kevin Lee Allen > Architect of Dreams > http://www.klad.com > 973.744.6352.voice > 201.280.3841.mobile > klad [at] klad.com > > > > ------------------------------ Subject: RE: disabled Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 18:33:26 -0700 Message-ID: <44FC1DD5E9E93D4F9D4C289DF28F7C3F4870 [at] thinkwellsbs.ThinkWell.corp> From: "Michael Finney" Wow - looks like I set something off. Wish I could have seen everything in Digest 943 (apparently the server hates me - I seem to get miss about 1 out of every 5 digests...always the ones I want to see....I suspect my computer is conspiring with the server..). =20 Hopefully I'm not throwing fuel on something here (or needlessly repeating things others have said better), but this is a subject that I feel fairly strongly about. Keep in mind that I'm coming from both the perspective of somebody with close friends and family in chairs *and* from the perspective of somebody who's frequently involved in facility construction (both new and remodel). That's where these opinions come from.... First of all: Tony Deeming describes an outstanding record of making reasonable accommodation for their patrons. Seriously - that's an example that I wish more facilities followed, and I admire Tony and his organization for their efforts. That he has one patron who's *not* being reasonable about access to the facility is unfortunate. He also made very good points regarding what reasonable accommodation is, and how that can be (or is) addressed with local authorities responsible for code compliance. I'm *absolutely* understand that there are limits to what can be done in existing facilities - sometimes is just isn't possible to provide access within the restrictions of the existing facility. The key is *reasonable* accommodation, which Tony's organization exemplifies. Tony makes a valuable reference to the UK version of this type of code (Disability Discrimination Act in the UK/Americans with Disabilities Act in the US) - personal opinion here, but I've always felt that the UK statute was more clearly written with regards to it's actual intent than the US act (preventing discrimination versus providing total access). Philip Johnson posted a useful set of comments regarding the US code (along with the web site: http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/adaag.htm#purpose ). The problem I've frequently had is that the act was written with enough "wiggle room" that there is always room for interpretation by local building departments...that's one of the reasons that there are so many guides out there to help with interpreting ADA. For instance, I've gotten *totally* different reads regarding wheelchair access to catwalks from the Las Vegas city building department and the Clark County building department (the county in which Vegas is located - some hotel/casinos are under the city, some are under the county. now *that's* fun!). Again, it came down to the interpretation of "work space" and access for supervisory staff (is supervising the workers on the catwalk part of the TD's job? The PM? Could one of them be in a chair?) That has certainly not helped in a reasonable implementation of a well intentioned piece of legislation. Not well written....but well intentioned. The other part of that (from the point of view of new construction) is the extent to which an organization wants to pursue access issues. Some want the bare minimum - if not less. Some (for whatever reason - because it's the right thing or because of fear of lawsuits) are more aggressive. Speaking as somebody who frequently helps to set the architectural program for new buildings, I come down on the "more aggressive" side. In my personal opinion, there is *no excuse* for not providing access to almost *all* spaces - and that includes offices, rehearsal rooms, control rooms and shops (access to all the public spaces (theatres, restrooms, lobbies, etc) is a given). Catwalks? Well, *I* prefer it, but that's negotiable I guess. The good thing about having somebody with my background advocating access in the building program is that this also lets us design in good access for other equipment, using the same oversized doors/hallways, elevators, ramps, etc. (That somebody would choose to interpret an elevator as usable *only* by handicapped patrons is one of the best examples of idiot management that I've heard lately). My "issue" (to the extent that I have one) is the number of times I've encountered resistance to this accommodation - and I hate to say it, but too many times the resistance has come from people on our side of the business. And way too many times it's boiled down to "I'm not getting all the toys I want and it's because of those people in wheelchairs" (even when that's not actually the case). I understand fighting for all the cool toys - but when it comes to throwing a fit (that continued *after* the building was finished!) because you had to give up 50 square feet of shop space (a 2500 square foot shop) to accommodate the vestibule for the elevator (the same elevator that the same guy used every freakin' day to get to his 2nd floor office), then I gotta say somebody is making the wrong decision regarding priorities. And I'd hope that we were all more willing to come down on the side of more aggressively implementing access to our facilities (wherever possible). Just my opinions - YMMV.....=20 =20 Michael Finney Thinkwell Design & Production mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com www.thinkwelldesign.com=20 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001b01c6d544$98722e30$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: disabled Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 18:50:01 -0700 > (That somebody would choose to interpret an elevator as > usable *only* by handicapped patrons is one of the best examples of > idiot management that I've heard lately). Yeah... I don't know if there are actual 'codes' in place in the greater Portland, OR USA area regarding this issue, but every lift I've seen in every high school and college in the area says in big bold letters on riveted plaques "NOT FOR FREIGHT." But so many get used for that, as well as for people moving. In my own school's new theatres, there are 3 lifts - and each of them rate a capacity of 750 lbs, and say "NOT FOR FREIGHT" on them. But that big one that goes to the orch pit - well, you know that's going to move timpani and drum kits. Luckily it is not large enough to move a piano. I say 'luckily,' because it's almost always during freight use that the units break down (hence the "NOT FOR FREIGHT" signs). When they're being used for freight, they're frequently being subjected to heavy loads (perhaps not exceeding capacity) - and they are being cycled quite a bit. Try moving several carts of equipment, or road cases, or stacks of chairs, etc. This is a lot more wear and tear than the 'occasional' patron, where the equipment has time to rest between cycles. I have seen many many dead lifts at high schools and colleges in the area - and the reason is because it was overused - NOT by carrying people. And in the schools, they just sit there with a sign on it (maybe) and never gets repaired.... until someone threatens with legal action. There ARE codes and restrictions in this area, though, when it comes to Food Service (doesn't stop my school, though) - Food Service elevators and lifts cannot also be used for 'regular people.' - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ From: megironda [at] att.net (Gerry G.) Subject: Re: Hullo's Quotes Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 02:40:20 +0000 Message-Id: <091120060240.623.4504CC9400013EF50000026F21602807410E0B02019D07090A03 [at] att.net> Wasn't the "Secret Handshake" posted about 3 months ago? ;~> Gerry G. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Rigger > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Yeah, sex and politics are one thing, but if you want to talk about > Freemasonry, I'm not going to do so on-list. > > -- > Dave Vick > rigger [at] tds.net > > The reason they call it "The American Dream" is > because you have to be asleep to believe in it. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:58:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Herrick's Test From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: And the one step too far award goes to..... BIG Clive! On 9/10/06 4:53 PM, "Clive Mitchell" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In message , Rigger writes >>>>> I've lost my place here... Is it the cheerleader that has had >>>>> a shave before heading over to Daves place? >>> >>> Yeah but she's not me. I'm only available for Dave. >> >> >> And now, ladies, and gentlemen, you know why I own firearms. > > Is it so you can say:- "Get down on your knees and suck it or I'll blow > your brains out son." > > Obviously implying that the silly little boy has dropped his ice cream > on your new carpet and you wish him to get down and gobble it up before > it makes the shag all sticky. -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ Message-ID: <58f67b0f0609101951k10ce9bf0ia9de9e6125f75706 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 21:51:55 -0500 From: "Michael Powers" Subject: Cheerleaders (was Herrick's Test) Jerry Durand writes: >>Now Dave... you know I've never dated a cheerleader. ;) >I was just friends with all of them, hung out with them.........>> Reminds me of a time when I was (just a touch) younger, and I managed to get myself and 8 cheerleaders loaded into a two seat Austin Healey 100-6. It was cozy and I was in heaven! However, the young lady next to me insisted that she would shift gears. I'll leave it to your imagination as the juxtaposition of the gear shift and her anatomy given the crowded situation. :-) Michael Michael Powers Director of Operations Central Lighting & Equipment 1720 Fuller Rd. Suite 150 West Des Moines Iowa 50265 515-277-4190 877-977-4190 Fax 515-277-2295 515-557-0178 cell michael [at] clelights.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 23:14:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Hullo's Quotes From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: He might get a visit form guys in cloaks. With daggers. I'm surprised you even brought it up. On 9/10/06 7:17 PM, "Rigger" wrote: > > Yeah, sex and politics are one thing, but if you want to talk about > Freemasonry, I'm not going to do so on-list. -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #945 *****************************