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X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 35135077; Wed, 20 Sep 2006 03:01:58 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS autolearn=ham version=3.1.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.5 (2006-08-29) on localhost X-Spam-Level: X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #956 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 03:01:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #956 1. Re: PLASA 06. by "Tony Deeming" 2. Dallas Area by Bill Sapsis 3. Re: Spinning person / knife throwing bit by "Gerald George" 4. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes by 5. Spinning Person bit by "tomhull [at] mac.com" 6. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes by "Jared Clarkin" 7. Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan by Michael de Almeida 8. power of the list (was: RE: God of Hell Blue Flashes) by "Storms, Randy" 9. Re: Spinning Person bit by "Bill Nelson" 10. LED hats (was: Re: Flashlight Geekdom) by "Storms, Randy" 11. Re: PC on campus. . .swords. . . by "Alan Bryson" 12. Re: PLASA 06. by Clive Mitchell 13. wireless antenna repair by "Storms, Randy" 14. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes by Jerry Durand 15. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes by Philip Johnson 16. Re: [user_group] wireless antenna repair by "Jim at TheatreWireless.com" 17. Re: wireless antenna repair by Stephen Lee 18. Re: [user_group] wireless antenna repair by "Alf Sauve" 19. Re: LED hats (was: Re: Flashlight Geekdom) by Clive Mitchell 20. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes by Clive Mitchell 21. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes by Clive Mitchell 22. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes by Philip Johnson 23. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes by Philip Johnson 24. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes by Gion DeFrancesco 25. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes by "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" 26. Re: Switch Blades..... by "Storms, Randy" 27. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes by Clive Mitchell 28. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes by Charlie Richmond 29. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes by "Ken Romaine" 30. pay rates by CB 31. Re: disabled by CB 32. Re: The results are in...(long post) by CB 33. Re: Spinning person / knife throwing bit by "Paul Puppo" 34. OT but impressive - bridge collapse by Michael Heinicke 35. Close to home... by "Steve Jones" 36. Re: pay rates by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 37. Re: OT but impressive - bridge collapse by "Fred Schoening, Jr." 38. Re: disabled by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 39. Re: Close to home... by gregg hillmar 40. Re: The results are in...(long post) by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 41. Re: PC on campus. . .swords. . . by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 42. Re: Close to home... by Bill Sapsis 43. Re: Close to home... by Clive Mitchell 44. Re: disabled by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 45. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes by "Jon Ares" 46. Re: Close to home... by "Jon Ares" 47. Re: Close to home... by "Laura McMeley" 48. Re: Herrick, Pom Poms , Cheerleaders and Spandex.... by "Andy Leviss" 49. Re: Close to home... by Shelly A Ford 50. Re: Herrick, Pom Poms , Cheerleaders and Spandex.... by Herrick Goldman 51. Re: Close to home... by Stuart Wheaton 52. Re: Close to home... by Richard Wright 53. Re: Close to home... by Michael de Almeida 54. Re: OT but impressive - bridge collapse by MissWisc [at] aol.com 55. Re: Close to home... by MissWisc [at] aol.com 56. Re: Close to home... by "Steve Jones" 57. Re: Herrick, Pom Poms , Cheerleaders and Spandex.... by Charlie Richmond 58. Re: Close to home... by Charlie Richmond 59. Re: Close to home... by Stuart Wheaton 60. Re: Close to home... by "Mt. Angel Performing Arts Center" 61. Re: Close to home... by "Bill Nelson" 62. Re: Close to home... by "Bill Nelson" 63. Re: Close to home... by "Bill Nelson" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tony Deeming" Subject: RE: PLASA 06. Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:15:01 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Clive - looked for ya last week, but failed to find those craggy northern features amongst the sea of techies and wannabes!! I chat with Mark from Le maitre (who designed & opped the display) on the Blue Room, and he's quite a helpful chap. Apparently the Sunday show (the only one with the originally planned extra smoke carts) was a little OTT with smoke - hence the gaps!! Mark filmed the whole thing 3 or 4 times, then edited the thing to present a pretty decent video - anyone who missed it on the day, can see it here - http://www.pyromark.com/vid/plasa2006.wmv Doesn't do it full justice, but does show what can be done with a decent controller (and a LOT of spare time!!) Did you see Le Maitre's new faux flame effect? Pretty simple principle, but MAN was it effective! Fast dissipating fog juice fed to a series of small outlets on a 3 or 4 foot wide unit. behind them was a row of dichroic bubbles with a split red/amber coloured gel mount. http://www.lemaitre.co.uk/ProductDescription.asp?idxProduct=90&idxCategory=1 2 This is not something I'd expect to use very often, but as soon as I find a use, there'll be a request to the local hire co!! TD > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Clive > Mitchell > Sent: 15 September 2006 03:14 > To: Stagecraft > Subject: PLASA 06. > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Just back from PLASA 2006 (Professional Light And Sound Association) the > UK's main show for performance gear. A few observations. > > LeMaitre. Still going strong with a few effects in their range I hadn't > seen before. They did their pyro demonstration synched with a SMPTE > sound track and unlike outdoor fireworks shows, the close proximity of > the FX and audio source meant that the sounds and FX were absolutely > spot on. > I've never seen stage pyro synchronised to music in quite that style > before and it certainly took a trick with the large crowds that gathered > to see it and applauded loudly at the end. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 06:36:22 -0400 Subject: Dallas Area From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: 'ello. I can get around NYC OK but Texas is another story. If there is anyone on the list that is in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, especially north of there, please give me a shout off list. Thanks Bill S. Bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:54:25 -0400 From: "Gerald George" Subject: Re: Spinning person / knife throwing bit Actually, I *do* throw knives. But not at people...usually. J >>> steven [at] simplycircus.com 9/19/2006 12:00 AM >>> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- You could always just throw knives... http://www.harrymknives.com/knife_throwing_video.html http://tutorials.simplycircus.com/manipulation/knife_throwing.htm (yes, its a joke, don't even think about it, unless you are hiring a pro) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Steven Santos Director, Simply Circus, Inc. Email: Steven [at] SimplyCircus.com Mail: PO BOX 620753 Newton, MA 02462 Phone: 781-799-4938 eFax: 309-214-0899 Web: www.SimplyCircus.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Gerald > George > Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 11:04 AM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Spinning person / knife throwing bit > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Hi again folks, > > Here's an interesting one... > > For our second production this semester, the director is interested in > incorperating a carnival / circus knife throwing gag. This would > require a cast member to be attached to a large wheel, be spun, and then > having knives appear as if they had been thrown. I'm thinking along the > lines of a steel frame surfaced with wood, a good set of bearings, and > somehow spring loading a set of hinged "knives" and having them pop up > on cue. I'm not at all sure how the thing will stand up, or, for that > matter, how the wheel part attaches to the bearing surface and to the > frame unit... > > Has anyone done anything similar? > > Cheers, > Jerry > > G. D. George > Technical Director and Lighting Designer > Department of Communcation and Theatre Arts > Salisbury University > Salisbury, MD > 21801 > > gdgeorge(at)salisbury(dot)edu > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060919131155.60060.qmail [at] web51004.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 06:11:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes In-Reply-To: It seems to me that the Kmart groin special would be the easier of the two effects. I light-weight fabric backlit pant with an LED-encrusted jock strap. for the hand gag I envision the blue only coming from the finger tips. For this I might try LEDs (are they wonderful little things) taped to either the tips of or the pads of the fingers. Then slip a thin latex glove (or latex-free glove if needed) over the hand and paint it to match the actors skin. Have fun and let us know how it turns out! Jason Tollefson www.tollefsondesigns.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <8CCA02CF-4FA0-45FC-847D-6AEAA56AFB4D [at] mac.com> From: "tomhull [at] mac.com" Subject: Spinning Person bit Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:46:02 -0500 Has anyone done anything similar? George, Yes I have done something similar. My encounter with this trick was not a rotating (revolving) one however. I just did this gag with the person standing up right and the wooden back board stationary. The concept is easy enough. Paint a person in whatever position you choose on the plywood backboard. Cut slots no closer than 8-10 inches away from that silhouette (Actors move you know). Then design the mechanism for the knives to pop thru the backboard. I fabricated fake looking knifes and welded them to a piece of 3/4" square tubing...3/4" tubing sleeved inside a piece of 1" box very well. I used bungee cord for the force to push the knives forward. Trust me it will impress your director when they hear a BANG and a knife appears. The other half of the gag is equally important. That is the actor FAKING throwing the knives. This is very important. DO NOT GIVE THEM REAL KNIVES>>>> Rubber knives will work. They must work out a technique that looks good enough to throw and conceal them... I suggest a lighting shift so that the thrower is not the focus when a knife has been thrown. One good knife through the legs will satisfy any audience. Pop a balloon or two with ease. Email me if you need more suggestions. I would think that RF servos would be needed on a round moving rig. Plus you have to rotate a fat actor round and round.... That's not easy...Lots of force involved and counterweight on the base... Ugggg. Try to sell the standing version. If not ... good luck. Tom Hull Collin College Plano, Texas ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:01:48 -0400 From: "Jared Clarkin" Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes Jared Clarkin Production Manager The New School for Drama 212-229-5859 Ext. 2627 clarkinj [at] newschool.edu >>> wdavis [at] du.edu 9/18/2006 7:05 PM >>> We are doing the regional premier of Sam Shepard's God of Hell and I'm interested in suggestions for how to do the "blue flashes" that are an integral part of the script. I was the production manager for the original production and worked with the electrician to create the efect that we used, we expeiramented with a variety of ways to make the blue flash happen, LEDs vari lights, and pyrotechnic devices. What we found that worked best was a remote camera strobe hidden on the actors body. We used a wireless remote to trigger two 11/2" long camera flash tubes. The flash tubes were wired into a belt pack power supply with a wireless reciever. The flash tubes were tucked just under the actors sleeve, they extracted them just before the effect, and the SM would trigger the flash. It looked great on stage, even under stage light. ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <60ECE045-7A1E-4C39-934E-6FFAEA9D58B9 [at] comcast.net> From: Michael de Almeida Subject: Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:17:33 -0400 Check out the "Motor Carriers' Road Atlas" from Rand McNally or others like it. It give you a map of areas with truck routes, haz mat regs, bridge and tunnel clearences, etc. You should be able to find it at any truck stop or on the web. It's a great resource to have. Good luck. - Mike de Almeida ATD/ME/MA Theaterworks, Hartford ------------------------------ Subject: power of the list (was: RE: God of Hell Blue Flashes) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:27:23 -0700 Message-ID: <555928311F8B2943B65FC7197942C3B70538C2FF [at] es1.bsdnet.wednet.edu> From: "Storms, Randy" This exchange, right here, perfectly illustrates the power of this = listserv as a technical resource. An interesting technical challenge is = posted, and the very next day the PM from the original production pops = up to offer a proven solution. (along with half a dozen other = suggestions from the peanut gallery) I love this list! Randy Storms rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu _____________________________ Davy Davis said: >>We are doing the regional premier of Sam Shepard's God of Hell and = I'm >>interested in suggestions for how to and then Jared Clarkin replied: >I was the production manager for the original production and ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1602.205.215.253.158.1158679855.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:30:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Spinning Person bit From: "Bill Nelson" > the actor FAKING throwing the knives. This is very important. DO > NOT GIVE THEM REAL KNIVES>>>> Rubber knives will work. They must > work out a technique that looks good enough to throw and conceal > them... I suggest a lighting shift so that the thrower is not the > focus when a knife has been thrown. We used wooden knives, painted to look real. One was free and the others were all fastened together, but could be fanned out to show that there was more than one. The actor had his back to the audience when "throwing" and it was easy to make it look real, as well as hide the knives up his sleeve when done. > I would think that RF servos would be needed on a round moving rig. > Plus you have to rotate a fat actor round and round.... That's not > easy...Lots of force involved and counterweight on the base... > Ugggg. Try to sell the standing version. If not ... good luck. I previously mentioned how a rotating version can be accomplished. By having the pull pin trip cord release handles close to the center of the hub, it is easy for the operator to grab and pull the correct one on cue. You would not want the assembly rotating much faster than 2-3 rpm. The target person will need to be strapped in place, at least at the waist and at the ankles. Bill ------------------------------ Subject: LED hats (was: Re: Flashlight Geekdom) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:35:06 -0700 Message-ID: <555928311F8B2943B65FC7197942C3B70538C303 [at] es1.bsdnet.wednet.edu> From: "Storms, Randy" I missed the start of this thread, but Kenneth's post caught my eye. I = just bought an LED hat by Panther Vision (www.panthervision.com) for = ~$16.00 at Lowes. I haven't tried it out on a gig yet, but I think I'm = going to like it a lot. It should also prove handy for geocaching, = which frequently takes me out into the woods at night. Cheers, Randy Storms rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu --------------------------------------------------- >That's why I put my headlamp sewn into a baseball cap with the = Minnesota=20 >Ballet logo on it.=20 ------------------------------ Message-id: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:38:00 -0400 Subject: re: PC on campus. . .swords. . . From: "Alan Bryson" "No, I did not notice. Have you noticed that PC has been used as more = of a sword than a shield lately, particularly around college campuses? /s/ Richard" --every read Mamet's "Oleanna"? alan bryson Technical Director Furman University Theatre Arts Department ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:38:19 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: PLASA 06. References: In-Reply-To: In message , Tony Deeming writes >Clive - looked for ya last week, but failed to find those craggy >northern features amongst the sea of techies and wannabes!! > I took a rather random trajectory around the show and did bump into a few acquaintances, but promptly lost them again. > >Did you see Le Maitre's new faux flame effect? >Pretty simple principle, but MAN was it effective! Fast dissipating fog >juice fed to a series of small outlets on a 3 or 4 foot wide unit. >behind them was a row of dichroic bubbles with a split red/amber >coloured gel mount. It was a very good effect, particularly from a modest distance. The rising fog looked like smoke coming off the flame too. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Subject: wireless antenna repair Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 09:21:30 -0700 Message-ID: <555928311F8B2943B65FC7197942C3B70538C305 [at] es1.bsdnet.wednet.edu> From: "Storms, Randy" Hello all - my organization has a Sony UHF wireless system with 16 lavs. = The beltpacks have a stubby little flexible "whip" antenna which has = proven to be the weakest part of the system. The antennas have a = threaded end and simply screw into the beltpack chassis, but they are = constantly working loose, and worse, getting stripped to the point where = they must be replaced. Sony *gouges* us on replacement parts, so I'd = like to prevent future damage as much as possible. My question: Could some sort of Loctite or other adhesive be used to = secure the antennas so they could not work loose? Would this have an = adverse effect on the performance of the antenna? I would be grateful for any advice, =20 Randy Storms rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 09:39:00 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes In-reply-to: Message-id: References: On Sep 19, 2006, at 8:01 AM, Jared Clarkin wrote: > What we found that worked best was a remote > camera strobe hidden on the actors body. We used a wireless remote to > trigger two 11/2" long camera flash tubes. The flash tubes were wired > into a belt pack power supply with a wireless reciever. The flash > tubes were tucked just under the actors sleeve, they extracted them > just > before the effect, and the SM would trigger the flash. I'd be concerned about having lethal amounts of electricity on an actor, especially with sweat. Camera flash circuits are often used to fire large pyro displays, even with wet wires. They have a LOT of energy stored in them (typically a 330uF capacitor charged to 300V, will weld a screwdriver). Be REALLY careful and make sure all high voltage wires are covered well and sealed against sweat. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:47:26 -0500 Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes From: Philip Johnson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I remember and old solution from theatre history class. Thanks Frank Rutledge.. 1. Insulate the actor and put a flesh colored glove on him with a live dc current. 2. ground the objects so that when he touches them a spark emits and travels to the object 3. for the crotch effect have a double insulated costume and build a jacob's ladder like effect down his legs. It worked in the early 20th century with two actors and swords. Maybe we can improve it Whatcha think is old technology still applicable in this instance? -- Philip Johnson Professor of Theatre Texas A&M University-Corpus Christi ------------------------------ From: "Jim at TheatreWireless.com" Subject: RE: [user_group] wireless antenna repair Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:57:20 -0400 Message-ID: <001701c6dc0c$ac24d0d0$7f9bfea9 [at] p3m866> In-Reply-To: > My question: Could some sort of Loctite or other adhesive be > used to secure the antennas so they could not work loose? > Would this have an adverse effect on the performance of the antenna? In my opinion, a *very small* amount of Loctite 222 can be applied. Avoid getting any on the seat of the connector, where the top of the threaded post bottoms out inside the mating component. This precaution may not be necessary, but it will help ensure there is still electrical conductivity between the parts. You will probably only need to do this once, or at least quite rarely, since a residue is left behind. Jim RC4 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <451022E2.2000800 [at] fieldmousepro.com> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:03:30 -0500 From: Stephen Lee Subject: Re: wireless antenna repair References: In-Reply-To: Storms, Randy wrote: > > Hello all - my organization has a Sony UHF wireless system with 16 > lavs. The beltpacks have a stubby little flexible "whip" antenna > which has proven to be the weakest part of the system. The antennas > have a threaded end and simply screw into the beltpack chassis, but > they are constantly working loose, and worse, getting stripped to the > point where they must be replaced. Sony *gouges* us on replacement > parts, so I'd like to prevent future damage as much as possible. > > My question: Could some sort of Loctite or other adhesive be used to > secure the antennas so they could not work loose? Would this have an > adverse effect on the performance of the antenna? Randy, The antenna does need electrical continuity across the threads. Is there enough thread so that you could put a nut on, and tighten it against the pack? This would be kind of like using 2 nuts on a bolt, tightened against each other to prevent loosening. You could use loctite on -part- of the threads, but I imagine it would be very hard to keep it from coating the entire surface. Can you just solder them together? Or cut off the connector & solder on a piece of flexible wire? You can use any piece of wire for an antenna, just make sure it's cut to the same length as the original. -- Stephen Lee Fieldmouse Productions Today's location: Houston, TX ------------------------------ Subject: RE: [user_group] wireless antenna repair Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 13:12:11 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Alf Sauve" Threadlocker Green is specifically for electrical connections. In the MSDS it is also referred to as #290. http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=3D10&subid=3D48&= pli d=3D695 http://www.henkelcamsds.com/pdf/01-29000.pdf (MSDS)=20 Alf Mt Bethel UMC -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jim at TheatreWireless.com Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 12:57 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: [user_group] wireless antenna repair For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- > My question: Could some sort of Loctite or other adhesive be used to=20 > secure the antennas so they could not work loose? > Would this have an adverse effect on the performance of the antenna? In my opinion, a *very small* amount of Loctite 222 can be applied. Avoid getting any on the seat of the connector, where the top of the threaded post bottoms out inside the mating component. This precaution may not be necessary, but it will help ensure there is still electrical conductivity between the parts. You will probably only need to do this once, or at least quite rarely, since a residue is left behind. Jim RC4 =20 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1cAIVSF5eCEFFwpc [at] ntlworld.com> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:24:09 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: LED hats (was: Re: Flashlight Geekdom) References: In-Reply-To: In message , "Storms, Randy" writes >I missed the start of this thread, but Kenneth's post caught my eye. I >just bought an LED hat by Panther Vision (www.panthervision.com) for >~$16.00 at Lowes. I haven't tried it out on a gig yet, but I think I'm >going to like it a lot. It should also prove handy for geocaching, >which frequently takes me out into the woods at night. Note that it uses lithium button cells, so the light output may fall off quite rapidly. I've used the little LED keychain torches stuck on the skip of my baseball cap with insulation tape when I've ended up working in dark areas unexpectedly. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:16:15 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes References: In-Reply-To: In message , Jerry Durand writes >I'd be concerned about having lethal amounts of electricity on an >actor, especially with sweat. Camera flash circuits are often used to >fire large pyro displays, even with wet wires. They have a LOT of >energy stored in them (typically a 330uF capacitor charged to 300V, >will weld a screwdriver). Be REALLY careful and make sure all high >voltage wires are covered well and sealed against sweat. Even at low DC voltages you can cause injury through cellular electroporosis whereby if a low DC voltage is applied to bare skin it passes enough current to cause cell damage through electrolysis. Want proof? Lick your arm and hold a PP3 (small 9V) battery on it until you feel it sting. It will leave a red spot which may reveal a pit through the skin cells when examined up close. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:19:43 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes References: In-Reply-To: In message , Philip Johnson writes >I remember and old solution from theatre history class. Thanks Frank >Rutledge.. > >1. Insulate the actor and put a flesh colored glove on him with a live >dc current. > >2. ground the objects so that when he touches them a spark emits and >travels to the object > >3. for the crotch effect have a double insulated costume and build a >jacob's ladder like effect down his legs. > > >It worked in the early 20th century with two actors and swords. Maybe >we can improve it > >Whatcha think is old technology still applicable in this instance? Clashing swords with a battery or welder as a power supply is still done, but the other suggestions you made are not really practical. Particularly the one involving sticking a Jacobs ladder down someone's pants. :) -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:29:20 -0500 Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes From: Philip Johnson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Joke!!! Phil Johnson On 9/19/06 12:16 PM, "Clive Mitchell" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In message , Jerry Durand > writes >> I'd be concerned about having lethal amounts of electricity on an >> actor, especially with sweat. Camera flash circuits are often used to >> fire large pyro displays, even with wet wires. They have a LOT of >> energy stored in them (typically a 330uF capacitor charged to 300V, >> will weld a screwdriver). Be REALLY careful and make sure all high >> voltage wires are covered well and sealed against sweat. > > Even at low DC voltages you can cause injury through cellular > electroporosis whereby if a low DC voltage is applied to bare skin it > passes enough current to cause cell damage through electrolysis. > > Want proof? Lick your arm and hold a PP3 (small 9V) battery on it until > you feel it sting. It will leave a red spot which may reveal a pit > through the skin cells when examined up close. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:32:54 -0500 Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes From: Philip Johnson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Clive I would like to know where this is still done. I haven't heard of it being since olden times. Just trying to keep things lively, No way would I put a jacob's ladder anywhere near an actor, (even if they deserved it) I should have used the joke disclaimer when I posted it, sorry Phil Johnson On 9/19/06 12:19 PM, "Clive Mitchell" wrote: > Clashing swords with a battery or welder as a power supply is still > done, but the other suggestions you made are not really practical. > Particularly the one involving sticking a Jacobs ladder down someone's > pants. :) ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 13:36:40 -0400 From: Gion DeFrancesco Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes Contact Patrick Wallace at Shepherd University (in Shepherdstown WV). He did the effect for the Contemporary American Theatre Festival with flint wheels the summer before last, and it was quite effective - sparks from wrists and from crotch. >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > > > >Jared Clarkin >Production Manager >The New School for Drama >212-229-5859 Ext. 2627 >clarkinj [at] newschool.edu > >>>> wdavis [at] du.edu 9/18/2006 7:05 PM >>> > >We are doing the regional premier of Sam Shepard's God of Hell and I'm > >interested in suggestions for how to do the "blue flashes" that are an > >integral part of the script. > > >I was the production manager for the original production and worked >with the electrician to create the efect that we used, we expeiramented >with a variety of ways to make the blue flash happen, LEDs vari lights, >and pyrotechnic devices. What we found that worked best was a remote >camera strobe hidden on the actors body. We used a wireless remote to >trigger two 11/2" long camera flash tubes. The flash tubes were wired >into a belt pack power supply with a wireless reciever. The flash >tubes were tucked just under the actors sleeve, they extracted them just >before the effect, and the SM would trigger the flash. It looked great >on stage, even under stage light. -- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Gion DeFrancesco Associate Professor of Theatre/Scene Designer MUT Production Manager Miami University 247C Center for Performing Arts Oxford, OH 45056 513.529.8318 Portfolio on the web at http://www.users.muohio.edu/defranga ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "A cheese may disappoint. It may be dull, it may be naive, it may be oversophisticated. Yet it remains, cheese, milk's leap toward immortality." Clifton Fadiman ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002001c6dc16$66132600$6401a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" References: Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:06:58 -0600 > Particularly the one involving sticking a Jacobs ladder down someone's > pants. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clive Mitchell" Uh...Could we try this out on a lab rat first?" Rob't "I don't think I want electricity runnning between my legs," said Tom revoltingly. ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Switch Blades..... Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 13:34:50 -0700 Message-ID: <555928311F8B2943B65FC7197942C3B70538C30B [at] es1.bsdnet.wednet.edu> From: "Storms, Randy" "Weapons of Choice" (www.weaponsofchoicetheatrical.com) has combs = modified in exactly this way for $4.75/ea. They look good, but are = apparently not very sturdy. Cheers, -- r. Randy Storms rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu --------------------------------------------------- Switch blade combs was the route I've done in the past for West Side = Story (and others). 1) Buy the comb(s) 2) Pull the plastic comb teeth assembly out carefully (leaving the = grooved "spine" where the teeth were held in (pinched in) 3) Get a cheap, thin metal table knife / butter knife from Wal-Mart 4) Cut the blade off of the handle portion 5) Grind the blade on a grinder to more the shape of a switchblade blade (but still dull it) 6) Attach some adhesive (liquid nail, whatever) to the back of the knife blade and slide it into the groove where to teeth came out of the "switchblade" 7) Let dry Viola! Steve > Doing a production of Twelve Angry Men in the fall and trying to =20 > locate the two identical switchblades.........Any suggestions? =20 > Seems there are legal issues in some states, and certainly don't want=20 > to step into any national security issues as well...... ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:42:44 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes References: In-Reply-To: In message , Philip Johnson writes >I would like to know where this is still done. I haven't heard of it >being since olden times. > This effect has been mentioned on various lists and still gets used in films from time to time. Last time I saw a similar effect done was during the filming of Electric Blues, a short film made for the BBC. The lead character is seen arcing crocodile clips off each other to check that his power is OK. It was simply a welder used to supply a limited current. Ironically this production also used a groin light which consisted of a large array of 5mm blue LEDs which were controlled by a microcontroller to dim and arc in a realistic manner as the lead character energised his naughty bits with mains power for maximum love power. (Yeah!) The production also used Welly lights, a flexible white LED strip that went into each of the wellington boots to give the impression of arcing inside. It had the rather dubious butt crack light which was a strip of blue LEDs in a heatshrink sleeve that was slipped into the actors rectal cleavage. (Not a good effect... the blue didn't read well through the flesh. It also used a custom microcontroller based mouth light that went into the actors mouth and gave the effect of his teeth arcing. (It was hygienically sealed in a fresh mini zip-lock bag for each use) and amongst other effects had a large silicon manhood which I wired with 60 blue LEDs internally. It had animatronic stiffy functions and was built and controlled by the same guy that did the infamous ceiling-crawling baby on Trainspotting. It looked like this..... http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/blueknob.jpg And was HEAVILY censored in the final cut. (The necrophillia scene.) (I really do hang around with a bad crowd.) This has been aired on the BBC a few times now. >Just trying to keep things lively, No way would I put a jacob's ladder >anywhere near an actor, (even if they deserved it) If a Jacob's ladder is used with a dead mans handle controlled by a technician assigned solely to that task, then it's a safe effect. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:00:42 +0100 (BST) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: On Tue, 19 Sep 2006, Clive Mitchell wrote: > (I really do hang around with a bad crowd.) Jeez, Clive! We really must get together again under more ideal circum... um... stances than a fleeting wave-bye at PLASA!!! Charlie ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:01:39 -0400 From: "Ken Romaine" Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes In-Reply-To: References: Jeez - is this list great or what!!! Groin lights, Welly lights, butt crack lights, mouth lights and a... taa daa!! ...60 LED silicon manhood...complete with "animatronic stiffy functions". Hot damn! Halloween's coming, how much for the silicon manhood and it's (his?) controller? Hey - isn't Live Design always looking for new stuff to write about? I'm sure that David Johnson would want to know about this. BTW - Clive - if you've got a copy of the uncensored version, I'll pay for a duplicate. Sounds like too much fun. -- Ken Romaine Business Development Manager Barco Media & Entertainment The opinions expressed here are mine - all mine - no matter how much I want to impose them on the rest of the world. On 9/19/06, Clive Mitchell wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > This effect has been mentioned on various lists and still gets used in > films from time to time. Last time I saw a similar effect done was > during the filming of Electric Blues, a short film made for the BBC. > The lead character is seen arcing crocodile clips off each other to > check that his power is OK. It was simply a welder used to supply a > limited current. > > Ironically this production also used a groin light which consisted of a > large array of 5mm blue LEDs which were controlled by a microcontroller > to dim and arc in a realistic manner as the lead character energised his > naughty bits with mains power for maximum love power. (Yeah!) > > The production also used Welly lights, a flexible white LED strip that > went into each of the wellington boots to give the impression of arcing > inside. It had the rather dubious butt crack light which was a strip of > blue LEDs in a heatshrink sleeve that was slipped into the actors rectal > cleavage. (Not a good effect... the blue didn't read well through the > flesh. It also used a custom microcontroller based mouth light that > went into the actors mouth and gave the effect of his teeth arcing. (It > was hygienically sealed in a fresh mini zip-lock bag for each use) and > amongst other effects had a large silicon manhood which I wired with 60 > blue LEDs internally. It had animatronic stiffy functions and was built > and controlled by the same guy that did the infamous ceiling-crawling > baby on Trainspotting. > > It looked like this..... > > http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/blueknob.jpg > > And was HEAVILY censored in the final cut. (The necrophillia scene.) > > (I really do hang around with a bad crowd.) > > This has been aired on the BBC a few times now. > > > > >Just trying to keep things lively, No way would I put a jacob's ladder > >anywhere near an actor, (even if they deserved it) > > If a Jacob's ladder is used with a dead mans handle controlled by a > technician assigned solely to that task, then it's a safe effect. > > > -- > Clive Mitchell ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060906134511.00d0d238 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 13:45:11 From: CB Subject: pay rates >I've seen plenty of >shows (unfortunately) with lousy lighting and wonderful acting which >worked beautifully, and I've never ever seen the reverse. Can anybody >out there say differently? I cannot tell you how many shows that I have pored blood sweat and tears into just to see amateur hacks destroy it. I have cast my pearls before swine. Oh, and there are examples all over of shows that have pedestrian actors and great light and sound to the rescue. Or parades of animal puppets, canals with boats and chandeliers that move, a helicopter, you name it. Of those that I've seen, most of the actors seemed to be, at the very least, adequate, and some quite good. They were all upstaged by the crew, however. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060906144123.00d98a98 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 14:41:23 From: CB Subject: RE: disabled >Nor would they be offended if the reason were that they were "wheelchair >users," which is a less-offensive term and costs most of us nothing to use >instead. > >After all, "PC" *really* stands for "politely considerate." Uhm... yeah. I'm a wheelchair user. I use mine as a handtruck, a convenient cahir on the set, and audio cart, a camera dolly, and a portable shelf. I am not, however, buund to it. I've walked away from it on many an occasion. 'Wheelchair user' denotes that option, 'wheelchair bound' indicates that they may, infact, need assistance if wheels aren't gonna cut it. Putting a bow on it isn't going to make it any prettier, and ignoring the facts don't make them go away. I wonder what a truck will cost to rent once they need to make the ramps ADA compliant and they all need to come with hand controls, hearing assistance, colorblind assistance and seeing eye driving dogs. I ask that it be based in reality, just a little bit. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060906144225.00d98a98 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 14:42:25 From: CB Subject: Re: The results are in...(long post) >These are usually winch operated double doors, about 4" thich with a 2' space >between them. *sigh*... Yes Frank, every studio door in Hollywood is exactly this specification. And I should know, I just drove through there and checked. Every one. It is amazing that you know that... Of course, I was referring to the hinged doors that are quite ehavy but don't require a winch to operate, and have two sides of noise deadening with a healthy air gap between them, and air-filled gaskets on the seals that we only imagine populate many studios in the San Fernando Valley. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3998154b0609191456v56b509bkc2cafcf5f6b2154e [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:56:32 -0700 From: "Paul Puppo" Subject: Re: Spinning person / knife throwing bit In-Reply-To: References: On 9/18/06, Gerald George wrote: > Has anyone done anything similar? When I was in college, 1000 years ago, we did Carnival, with the "Spinning Wheel of Death", or whatever. I built the spring knives, wooden 1x frames, Spring loaded, steel "knives". Quite a satisfying "thunk". We had someone, not me, thank god, ride on the back, sitting on the "axle" of the "Wheel", and at the proper time pushed on the large paddles that were the triggers. I think there were drum rolls, so the timing was not difficult. The resultant dizziness though from following the triggers [at] round, and [at] round...... And once you strap someone on, you don't spin it nearly as fast as anyone though you would. Think helical projections. Oh, I'm remembering foot plates, to stand on, and hand "pegs" to "stand" on, and a waist belt, because the performer tends to sag in the middle at 9:15 and 3:45. Paul Puppo ILLUMINEERING http://www.Nifty-Gadgets.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060919222019.57787.qmail [at] web82204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:20:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Heinicke Subject: OT but impressive - bridge collapse I thought this was pretty impressive structurally, though I'm sorry people were hurt. Just think about the forces required to bend the I-beams on this bridge!! http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006609190445 Mike Heinicke ------------------------------ From: "Steve Jones" Subject: Close to home... Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:42:41 -0500 Message-ID: <000601c6dc3c$eae87850$6601a8c0 [at] plazadirector> In-Reply-To: Well, today was an interesting day. I got a call around 2:30 this afternoon on my cell phone from my wife. She is a physician and was calling me from the hospital emergency room. She said I needed to come to the hospital because our 17 year old daughter had been badly shocked by electricity at the high school theatre where she was working on the drama program. Once my heart began beating again, I found out that she is OK. But she does have some third degree burns on her hand - mainly index finger and thumb of left hand. She may need some graft work. It turns out that she (in her own words "being stupid") was removing a burnt out lamp from an instrument with it still plugged in and on. As she removed it, the glass envelope broke off (we've all been there) and then she (*shudder*) reached in and tried to remove the still seated, broken base. That's when she was shocked. She has worked with me a good deal in the theatre and KNOWS this was the wrong thing to do and wrong way to do it. In addition to the physical pain, she feels "really stupid" (again, her words) as she "knows better". I am going in tomorrow to look over the schools gear, as I want to see first hand what happened. Maybe someone can correct me - but a properly wired 110 system (and at this point I assume the system is 110 at the point she was at) shouldn't cause enough power to cause the muscles to contract (which did - she couldn't let go of the base and had to scream for 10-15 seconds until they killed the system) and cause 3rd degree burns. Maybe it's just that I've never grabbed a live 110 circuit and "held on". I've "knicked" myself on them at home before and got a nasty little "buzz" on my hand - but nothing that ever felt like a jolt she must have gotten. I want to see if the system is wired properly. I'm not interested in suing anyone - I just want to make sure the kids are safe (since no one else seems to have done it). Any pointers on what I should keep an I eye for as I look things over? I don't even know at this point the type of system, dimmers, instrument, wattage, or anything. Thank God / Allah / Buddha / Muhammad / Anyone Else that she was not hurt worse. Thanks! Steve ************************************* Steve Jones, Director Plaza Theatre 115 E. Main Street Glasgow, KY 42141 Voice: (270) 361-2101 Fax: (270) 834-8147 http://www.glasgowplazatheatre.org ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <3c3.7adc9900.3241d1ee [at] aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:06:22 EDT Subject: Re: pay rates In a message dated 19/09/06 22:12:48 GMT Daylight Time, psyd [at] cox.net writes: > I cannot tell you how many shows that I have pored blood sweat and tears > into just to see amateur hacks destroy it. I have cast my pearls before > swine. Oh, and there are examples all over of shows that have pedestrian > actors and great light and sound to the rescue. Or parades of animal > puppets, canals with boats and chandeliers that move, a helicopter, you > name it. Of those that I've seen, most of the actors seemed to be, at the > very least, adequate, and some quite good. They were all upstaged by the > crew, however. Most of the shows I see are opera, so there is a third component, the orchestra and conductor. There is, in general, a fourth as well, the director. You can survive one bad component, maybe two, but no more. Of them all, the director is the most likely to wreck a show irredeemably. They will have these confounded "concepts", which shift the settings out of their proper time and place. Sometimes this works, but not often. Take Peter Sellars' production of "The Macic Flute" at Glyndebourne some years ago. This was an unparalleled disaster. It was set on and under a Californian freeway; ALL the lighting was from the underneath, by Wolfgang Goebbel. The MD, one Lothar Zagrozek, elected to use very slow tempi. It was as well sung as the tempi would allow, which made it just bearable, but no more. The only good idea was that the serpent at the start was Tamino having a bad trip on LSD. On the other hand, Jonathan Miller's "Rigoletto", translated into mafia-ridden New York, with the Duke as a Don, worked well. I think that this was because of the similar social structures. Take a piece of theatre out of the social structure for which it was designed, and disaster is on the horizon. Neither "Figaro" nor "Don Giovanni" take this well. And yet a TV production of "Tosca", staged in the real locations in Rome, at the real times of day and with a good cast, was not a great success. I think the technical problems defeated them: the invisible orchestra. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <27114628.1158707588391.JavaMail.root [at] mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:13:08 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: "Fred Schoening, Jr." Reply-To: "Fred Schoening, Jr." Subject: Re: OT but impressive - bridge collapse I found the last line of the article pretty interesting: "...injuries and deaths in the construction industry are often related to human factors, such as taking shortcuts to speed up construction schedules, failing to maintain equipment and making mistakes as a result of fatigue." Good thing none of us do that!! "Big Fred" Schoening Technical Director, Dallas Theater Center Dallas, Texas, USA ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:21:19 EDT Subject: Re: disabled In a message dated 19/09/06 22:12:54 GMT Daylight Time, psyd [at] cox.net writes: > Putting a bow on it isn't going to make it any prettier, and ignoring the > facts don't make them go away. I wonder what a truck will cost to rent > once they need to make the ramps ADA compliant and they all need to come > with hand controls, hearing assistance, colorblind assistance and seeing > eye driving dogs. > I ask that it be based in reality, just a little bit. The PC teams don't know about reality. If my abilities are impaired, and at my age they're going that way, I accept that I cannot do what I could twenty years ago, and plan my life accordingly. Within my physical limitations, I do what I can. If I'm stuck in a wheelchair, I can't go down a flight of stairs without help, and, given the usual gradient of such, I shouldn't thank you for a ramp, either. Frank Wood ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <38CB1035-D132-4D93-9C47-5CBFD9F4023F [at] hillmardesign.com> From: gregg hillmar Subject: Re: Close to home... Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:25:59 -0400 a hundred years ago at a theatre far away... I was LD/TD at an outdoor theatre that had been in operation for years and years. At that point, the lighting equipment was hung on metal towers on either side of the stage. The equipment was old- asbestos leads on most of them. Electricians would climb up a ladder, and use a rope to "strap in" to the tower while focusing. One evening after an afternoon rain, we sent the M.E. up the tower to focus. He strapped in and we brought up the first light. He managed to touch the wet asbestos leads, which, since he was nicely grounded via metal towers to earth, caused him to yell, jump, stutter, and bounce on the tower until we could get the power turned off. I can tell you from personal experience that hair does stand straight up and sparks do fly from various parts of anatomy that are close to contact points... That he didn't die from the electrical shock was extremely fortunate. Nor did he fall before someone could get up the tower to rescue him. Two lessons- asbestos, regardless of its other nasty properties, is a FABRIC,and conducts electricity when wet. AND, yes, 110 will cause ALL of the symptoms that you describe. For my M.E., the fact that his muscles contracted and he could not let go likely saved his life from the fall- even "roped" in. Your daughter is lucky; indeed thank God / Allah / Buddha / Muhammad / Anyone Else that she was not hurt worse, but the shock she received would not be unusual in that kind of scenario. I've also never gotten that kind of shock, but I KNOW that it is possible. Please give your daughter all of our best wishes! g. _____________________ gregg hillmar scenic & lighting design portfolio & life as we know it: http://www.hillmardesign.com "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like no one's watching." Satchel Paige On Sep 19, 2006, at 6:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see stagecraft.theprices.net/> > --------------------------------------------------- > > Well, today was an interesting day. > > I got a call around 2:30 this afternoon on my cell phone from my > wife. She > is a physician and was calling me from the hospital emergency > room. She > said I needed to come to the hospital because our 17 year old > daughter had > been badly shocked by electricity at the high school theatre where > she was > working on the drama program. > > Once my heart began beating again, I found out that she is OK. But > she does > have some third degree burns on her hand - mainly index finger and > thumb of > left hand. She may need some graft work. It turns out that she > (in her own > words "being stupid") was removing a burnt out lamp from an > instrument with > it still plugged in and on. As she removed it, the glass envelope > broke off > (we've all been there) and then she (*shudder*) reached in and > tried to > remove the still seated, broken base. That's when she was > shocked. She has > worked with me a good deal in the theatre and KNOWS this was the > wrong thing > to do and wrong way to do it. In addition to the physical pain, > she feels > "really stupid" (again, her words) as she "knows better". > > I am going in tomorrow to look over the schools gear, as I want to > see first > hand what happened. Maybe someone can correct me - but a properly > wired 110 > system (and at this point I assume the system is 110 at the point > she was > at) shouldn't cause enough power to cause the muscles to contract > (which did > - she couldn't let go of the base and had to scream for 10-15 > seconds until > they killed the system) and cause 3rd degree burns. Maybe it's > just that > I've never grabbed a live 110 circuit and "held on". I've > "knicked" myself > on them at home before and got a nasty little "buzz" on my hand - but > nothing that ever felt like a jolt she must have gotten. I want to > see if > the system is wired properly. I'm not interested in suing anyone - > I just > want to make sure the kids are safe (since no one else seems to > have done > it). > > Any pointers on what I should keep an I eye for as I look things > over? I > don't even know at this point the type of system, dimmers, instrument, > wattage, or anything. > > Thank God / Allah / Buddha / Muhammad / Anyone Else that she was > not hurt > worse. > > Thanks! > > Steve > > > > ************************************* > Steve Jones, Director > Plaza Theatre > 115 E. Main Street > Glasgow, KY 42141 > Voice: (270) 361-2101 > Fax: (270) 834-8147 > http://www.glasgowplazatheatre.org > > ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <40f.2896d280.3241d6f7 [at] aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:27:51 EDT Subject: Re: The results are in...(long post) In a message dated 19/09/06 22:13:54 GMT Daylight Time, psyd [at] cox.net writes: > >These are usually winch operated double doors, about 4" thich with a 2' > space > >between them. > > *sigh*... Yes Frank, every studio door in Hollywood is exactly this > specification. And I should know, I just drove through there and checked. > Every one. It is amazing that you know that... I detect a sour note there. But I worked at Ealing Studios for several years, and those were the studio doors to the outside world. The people doors were much the same, but smaller, and hinged. It took a good shove to open them. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:42:05 GMT Subject: Re: PC on campus. . .swords. . . Message-Id: <20060919.164237.833.469185 [at] webmail34.lax.untd.com> YES. But I was talking about how PC is utilized to suppress freedom of = speech. Formally, you could know your enemy by his or her ethnic slurs = addressed to you. Now, they can use PC speech and you don't know that = they are out to do you harm until it is too late to escape their wrath. /s/Richard _____________ "No, I did not notice. Have you noticed that PC has been used as more = of a sword than a shield lately, particularly around college campuses? /s/ Richard" _____________ --every read Mamet's "Oleanna"? alan bryson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:48:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Close to home... From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Yes, he said speaking from experience, 110VAC is strong enough to lock up your muscles. In many cases it's what saves a life. Most accidents are caused by people 'being stupid'. People who know better but have that momentary lapse of focus. It's not that they're being stupid, it's just that they aren't thinking about what they are doing. They're wondering what's for dinner or how late the call is going to go. You can't completely combat this sort of thing. That's why there are fall arrest systems and first aid systems and such. So, pay attention as much as you possibly can, wear all the safety equipment you are supposed to and never, ever work alone. Steve, I'm glad she's OK. Bill S. ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile On 9/19/06 6:42 PM, "Steve Jones" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Well, today was an interesting day. > > I got a call around 2:30 this afternoon on my cell phone from my wife. She > is a physician and was calling me from the hospital emergency room. She > said I needed to come to the hospital because our 17 year old daughter had > been badly shocked by electricity at the high school theatre where she was > working on the drama program. > > Once my heart began beating again, I found out that she is OK. But she does > have some third degree burns on her hand - mainly index finger and thumb of > left hand. She may need some graft work. It turns out that she (in her own > words "being stupid") was removing a burnt out lamp from an instrument with > it still plugged in and on. As she removed it, the glass envelope broke off > (we've all been there) and then she (*shudder*) reached in and tried to > remove the still seated, broken base. That's when she was shocked. She has > worked with me a good deal in the theatre and KNOWS this was the wrong thing > to do and wrong way to do it. In addition to the physical pain, she feels > "really stupid" (again, her words) as she "knows better". > > I am going in tomorrow to look over the schools gear, as I want to see first > hand what happened. Maybe someone can correct me - but a properly wired 110 > system (and at this point I assume the system is 110 at the point she was > at) shouldn't cause enough power to cause the muscles to contract (which did > - she couldn't let go of the base and had to scream for 10-15 seconds until > they killed the system) and cause 3rd degree burns. Maybe it's just that > I've never grabbed a live 110 circuit and "held on". I've "knicked" myself > on them at home before and got a nasty little "buzz" on my hand - but > nothing that ever felt like a jolt she must have gotten. I want to see if > the system is wired properly. I'm not interested in suing anyone - I just > want to make sure the kids are safe (since no one else seems to have done > it). > > Any pointers on what I should keep an I eye for as I look things over? I > don't even know at this point the type of system, dimmers, instrument, > wattage, or anything. > > Thank God / Allah / Buddha / Muhammad / Anyone Else that she was not hurt > worse. > > Thanks! > > Steve > > > > ************************************* > Steve Jones, Director > Plaza Theatre > 115 E. Main Street > Glasgow, KY 42141 > Voice: (270) 361-2101 > Fax: (270) 834-8147 > http://www.glasgowplazatheatre.org > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 01:04:12 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: Close to home... References: In-Reply-To: In message , Steve Jones writes >I am going in tomorrow to look over the schools gear, as I want to see >first hand what happened. Maybe someone can correct me - but a >properly wired 110 system (and at this point I assume the system is 110 >at the point she was at) shouldn't cause enough power to cause the >muscles to contract (which did - she couldn't let go of the base and >had to scream for 10-15 seconds until they killed the system) and cause >3rd degree burns. Maybe it's just that I've never grabbed a live 110 >circuit and "held on". I've "knicked" myself on them at home before >and got a nasty little "buzz" on my hand - but nothing that ever felt >like a jolt she must have gotten. I want to see if the system is wired >properly. I'm not interested in suing anyone - I just want to make >sure the kids are safe (since no one else seems to have done it). It's the current that matters. It only takes 10mA upwards to lock your fingers onto a connection. To cause burns it would have been higher. The amount of current that flows on contact with any voltage depends on whether your hands are moist with sweat or water or whether your skin is weathered and tough or young and soft plus many other factors. Unfortunately your daughter is not the first to get a shock trying to remove a broken lamp from a base. Maybe it's just too obvious for people to even think of mentioning it. Like trying to remove a plug that the cover just fell off. In this instance the current was obviously confined to the hand. It could have been so much worse. On a plus side I doubt she's going to do it again. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: disabled Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:02:13 -0400 Message-ID: <002501c6dc50$68da7700$6501a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > Pathetically=20 > Childish..... Are you referring to those who are PC, or to those who have a desperate = need to reaffirm themselves by affecting a hostile attitude at the mere = thought that someone might expect them to accommodate the needs of those less fortunate than themselves? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000b01c6dc51$2e601bb0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:07:45 -0700 > BTW - Clive - if you've got a copy of the uncensored version, I'll pay > for a duplicate. Sounds like too much fun. Me too... this film sounds like a GREAT after-performance get-together. All the effects and theatrics sound very on-topic. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001b01c6dc52$6c1d5b10$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Close to home... Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:16:38 -0700 > Maybe someone can correct me - but a properly wired 110 > system (and at this point I assume the system is 110 at the point she was > at) shouldn't cause enough power to cause the muscles to contract (which > did > - she couldn't let go of the base and had to scream for 10-15 seconds > until > they killed the system) and cause 3rd degree burns. I had a similar incident happen to a student of mine 2 years ago - no burns, but his grip did contract enough to prevent him from getting out of dangers' way. He was testing Altman Fresnels (of various ages) and rating them on quality. He plugged in one, and was jolted pretty dramatically - I was only a few feet away, and he was screaming for help, as he was unable to drop the fixture. I was able to yank the cord from the rack's convenience outlet, but the shock 'shook' him up pretty badly. (And toasted his cell phone that was in his pocket.) The fault was in the fixture - short at the base - not any of the cabling. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Laura McMeley" Subject: RE: Close to home... Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 20:36:14 -0500 Message-ID: <00e901c6dc55$29910aa0$6600a8c0 [at] tdolighting01> In-Reply-To: Tell your daughter she's not stupid, just not careful enough. We all make mistakes. Thank goodness she wasn't hurt any worse than she was, and learn the lesson to remember her lessons in safety from now on. I hope she heals quickly. Laura LD, Dallas > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Steve > Jones > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:43 PM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Close to home... > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Well, today was an interesting day. > > I got a call around 2:30 this afternoon on my cell phone from my wife. > She > is a physician and was calling me from the hospital emergency room. She > said I needed to come to the hospital because our 17 year old daughter had > been badly shocked by electricity at the high school theatre where she was > working on the drama program. > > Once my heart began beating again, I found out that she is OK. But she > does > have some third degree burns on her hand - mainly index finger and thumb > of > left hand. She may need some graft work. It turns out that she (in her > own > words "being stupid") was removing a burnt out lamp from an instrument > with > it still plugged in and on. As she removed it, the glass envelope broke > off > (we've all been there) and then she (*shudder*) reached in and tried to > remove the still seated, broken base. That's when she was shocked. She > has > worked with me a good deal in the theatre and KNOWS this was the wrong > thing > to do and wrong way to do it. In addition to the physical pain, she feels > "really stupid" (again, her words) as she "knows better". > > I am going in tomorrow to look over the schools gear, as I want to see > first > hand what happened. Maybe someone can correct me - but a properly wired > 110 > system (and at this point I assume the system is 110 at the point she was > at) shouldn't cause enough power to cause the muscles to contract (which > did > - she couldn't let go of the base and had to scream for 10-15 seconds > until > they killed the system) and cause 3rd degree burns. Maybe it's just that > I've never grabbed a live 110 circuit and "held on". I've "knicked" > myself > on them at home before and got a nasty little "buzz" on my hand - but > nothing that ever felt like a jolt she must have gotten. I want to see if > the system is wired properly. I'm not interested in suing anyone - I just > want to make sure the kids are safe (since no one else seems to have done > it). > > Any pointers on what I should keep an I eye for as I look things over? I > don't even know at this point the type of system, dimmers, instrument, > wattage, or anything. > > Thank God / Allah / Buddha / Muhammad / Anyone Else that she was not hurt > worse. > > Thanks! > > Steve > > > > ************************************* > Steve Jones, Director > Plaza Theatre > 115 E. Main Street > Glasgow, KY 42141 > Voice: (270) 361-2101 > Fax: (270) 834-8147 > http://www.glasgowplazatheatre.org > ------------------------------ From: "Andy Leviss" Subject: Re: Herrick, Pom Poms , Cheerleaders and Spandex.... Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:38:24 -0400 Organization: Duck's Echo Sound Message-ID: <02ef01c6dc55$7763d500$8f14e748 [at] Andy> In-Reply-To: In response to my innuendo, and followup questions, Herrick clarified: > Nope Musical. > > I believe Klyph saw it. Andy designed the sound. Indeed, 'twas a musical. After knowing Herrick via the list for years, I finally had a chance to work with him and his wonderful associate Susan on a gig last week, and can now say firsthand that they indeed do some great work, on top of being what one would refer to as "good people". Even if Herrick did twist my arm into staying out way too late on a work night--man, one year off the road, and I turn into a wuss! (Okay, he didn't have to twist too hard, but still...) For the record, I was actually the associate designer/engineer, my good friend Danny Erdberg was the designer. --Andy, who's having a NYMFtastic September, and figures on finally getting some sleep around Columbus Day! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/450 - Release Date: 9/18/2006 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:13:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Shelly A Ford Subject: Re: Close to home... Message-id: <4694914.1158718383206.JavaMail.sford4 [at] aug.edu> About 15 years ago I was shocked by a 110 circuit when focusing an ungrounded light electrified when its wiring came loose. I was stuck with one hand on a pipe and the other on the hot instrument, so the current went across my chest. As others have described, I screamed and shook, and my hair stood on end, though I don't recall any sparks appearing. I was wearing shorts and kneeling on a steel grate catwalk floor - if the current had travelled vertically through my torso I'd have risked organ damaged. I was only able to let go when the power was turned off. Afterward I was exhausted from the fright and physical stress, and all the muscles in my arms and across my chest were sore. Other than that, I was unharmed. Go ahead and look around, in case there's some other details to the story and setting, but it sounds like what others have commented on - an accident, human error, and yes, it's good news that your daughter's okay. Clive Mitchell wrote: >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >In message , Steve Jones > writes >>I am going in tomorrow to look over the schools gear, as I want to see >>first hand what happened. Maybe someone can correct me - but a >>properly wired 110 system (and at this point I assume the system is 110 >>at the point she was at) shouldn't cause enough power to cause the >>muscles to contract (which did - she couldn't let go of the base and >>had to scream for 10-15 seconds until they killed the system) and cause >>3rd degree burns. Maybe it's just that I've never grabbed a live 110 >>circuit and "held on". I've "knicked" myself on them at home before >>and got a nasty little "buzz" on my hand - but nothing that ever felt >>like a jolt she must have gotten. I want to see if the system is wired >>properly. I'm not interested in suing anyone - I just want to make >>sure the kids are safe (since no one else seems to have done it). > >It's the current that matters. It only takes 10mA upwards to lock your >fingers onto a connection. To cause burns it would have been higher. > >The amount of current that flows on contact with any voltage depends on >whether your hands are moist with sweat or water or whether your skin is >weathered and tough or young and soft plus many other factors. > >Unfortunately your daughter is not the first to get a shock trying to >remove a broken lamp from a base. Maybe it's just too obvious for >people to even think of mentioning it. Like trying to remove a plug >that the cover just fell off. > >In this instance the current was obviously confined to the hand. It >could have been so much worse. On a plus side I doubt she's going to do >it again. > >-- >Clive Mitchell >http://www.bigclive.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:28:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Herrick, Pom Poms , Cheerleaders and Spandex.... From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <9855248.1158716464986.JavaMail.root [at] m41> Thanks Andy it was fun working with you. Sorry you could only drink girly drinks with us but I know you were tired. We just opened our 3rd festival show tonight with 2 more to go, whilst I am in Germany. Where apparently the Jaegermeister flows like water. The Invitation is open for anyone who wants to join me in the tents in Munich for Oktoberfest this weekend. -H On 9/19/06 9:38 PM, "Andy Leviss" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In response to my innuendo, and followup questions, Herrick clarified: >> Nope Musical. >> >> I believe Klyph saw it. Andy designed the sound. > > Indeed, 'twas a musical. After knowing Herrick via the list for years, I > finally had a chance to work with him and his wonderful associate Susan > on a gig last week, and can now say firsthand that they indeed do some > great work, on top of being what one would refer to as "good people". > Even if Herrick did twist my arm into staying out way too late on a work > night--man, one year off the road, and I turn into a wuss! (Okay, he > didn't have to twist too hard, but still...) > > For the record, I was actually the associate designer/engineer, my good > friend Danny Erdberg was the designer. > > --Andy, who's having a NYMFtastic September, and figures on finally > getting some sleep around Columbus Day! -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4510B030.7040904 [at] fuse.net> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:06:24 -0400 From: Stuart Wheaton Reply-To: sdwheaton [at] fuse.net Subject: Re: Close to home... References: In-Reply-To: Steve Jones wrote: > I am going in tomorrow to look over the schools gear, as I want to see first > hand what happened. Maybe someone can correct me - but a properly wired 110 > system (and at this point I assume the system is 110 at the point she was > at) shouldn't cause enough power to cause the muscles to contract (which did > - she couldn't let go of the base and had to scream for 10-15 seconds until > they killed the system) and cause 3rd degree burns. Maybe it's just that > I've never grabbed a live 110 circuit and "held on". I've "knicked" myself > on them at home before and got a nasty little "buzz" on my hand - but > nothing that ever felt like a jolt she must have gotten. I want to see if > the system is wired properly. I'm not interested in suing anyone - I just > want to make sure the kids are safe (since no one else seems to have done > it). A few months ago, I somehow got my wire strippers onto a hot conductor, (Still don't know how, I was stripping it to put on a male plug, and never found the voltage or could duplicate the effect after the fact. Heck, the jaws and the metal part of the handles on my strippers have no continuity either!) and I couldn't let go. Felt like being kicked by something about 6 times before I involuntarily jerked my arm away from the contact and tossed the strippers half way across the theatre. I didn't/couldn't yell until the contact broke, as far as I know...I think there is some time dilation effect in that situation. In your daughter's case the burns probably came from the glowing filament rather than the electricity itself. > Thank God / Allah / Buddha / Muhammad / Anyone Else that she was not hurt > worse. Amen to that, his noodly appendage reached out for sure! Stuart ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <3dfce9d71077a2452e8addd09288fb99 [at] goldrushbc.com> From: Richard Wright Subject: Re: Close to home... Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 20:32:52 -0700 I think I can win for the Darwin award. Many many years ago, when I was just a lad of about 18, working on a farm, we decided to put a sump pump in a dugout to pump water to a barn. So, we ran the line out to the pond. I don't remember the sequence of things but I know the line was live. I was in the dugout (ie standing knee deep in water!!!!) and we had to cut the wires. I figured if I cut one at a time I would be fine. That was before I took some electrical courses but after high school science. First wire was fine, but when I cut the second my hand and arm froze as I was electrocuted. I could not let go, but I did scream. Fortunately my buddy grabbed the line and snapped it like a whip, pulling the pliers/cutters from my hand. I crawled out exhausted but not burned. I am only alive because as we later found out we were so far from the barn and the receptacle that we had a lot of line loss. I am more careful now Glad your daughter is okay. Richard Newman & Wright Theatre Company > A few months ago, I somehow got my wire strippers onto a hot > conductor, (Still don't know how, I was stripping it to put on a male > plug, and never found the voltage or could duplicate the effect after > the fact. Heck, the jaws and the metal part of the handles on my > strippers have no continuity either!) and I couldn't let go. Felt > like being kicked by something about 6 times before I involuntarily > jerked my arm away from the contact and tossed the strippers half way > across the theatre. I didn't/couldn't yell until the contact broke, > as far as I know...I think there is some time dilation effect in that > situation. In your daughter's case the burns probably came from the > glowing filament rather than the electricity itself. > > >> Thank God / Allah / Buddha / Muhammad / Anyone Else that she was not >> hurt >> worse. > > Amen to that, his noodly appendage reached out for sure! > > Stuart > ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <11862D6D-C6E0-4D92-B7CE-1B8FB9402449 [at] comcast.net> From: Michael de Almeida Subject: Re: Close to home... Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 00:06:15 -0400 On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:32 PM, Richard Wright wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see stagecraft.theprices.net/> > --------------------------------------------------- > > I think I can win for the Darwin award. To win the Darwin Award, you have to die. I came close a few times. First was a laser power supply at around 10kV. Once was a flyback transformer from an old TV. I found out why they call it a flyback transformer. You fly back a few feet when it hits ya. The burn marks stayed for a month. It keeps you on your toes and safe when you get blasted at least once. Now I always carry an inductive sensor. It's good to hear that your daughter is ok. Just tell her it happens to the best of us. We all have times we let our guard down. - Mike de Almeida ATD/ME/MA Theaterworks, Hartford ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <31b.4af30380.32421a69 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 00:15:37 EDT Subject: Re: OT but impressive - bridge collapse mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net writes: _http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006609190445_ (http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006609190445) I've been over this bridge many times - my sister lives near it. The top photo is looking north on Hwy 51. Given that the other half of the bridge had already been taken down (the part over the northbound lanes of Hwy 51), the whole weight stress of what's in the picture was on the western supports so there was a kind of cantilever thing happening. I'm glad there weren't more injuries. The two who were hurt are in our prayers. Kristi ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 00:18:19 EDT Subject: Re: Close to home... Steve - So glad to hear she will be OK! Let us know what you find at the school. Perhaps a gift-wrapped copy of Dr. Doom's H.S. safety book would be good for the teacher? Kristi ------------------------------ From: "Steve Jones" Subject: RE: Close to home... Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:36:08 -0500 Message-ID: <000401c6dc6e$4f643b80$6501a8c0 [at] plazadirector> In-Reply-To: Some of the "mechanical" things I want to check on at the school tomorrow are: 1) Was the instrument grounded properly? 2) Is the connector in the circuit strip actually connected to a ground? 3) Is the voltage correct? 4) Why didn't a breaker flip if she was "shorting" for up to 30 seconds? The soft things are: 1) Who trains them on theatre safety / procedures? 2) Where was the teacher? 3) Why was she allowed to call her mom and not immediately sent in an ambulance (as she finally was)? 4) How often is maintenance / inspection performed on the theatre and who does it? In doing some research and listening to folks from the list, the "locked grip" at 110V seems possible - but the extent of her burns seems much more severe than 110V would cause. Anything else you can suggest to check? ************************************* Steve Jones, Director Plaza Theatre 115 E. Main Street Glasgow, KY 42141 Voice: (270) 361-2101 Fax: (270) 834-8147 http://www.glasgowplazatheatre.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 06:27:33 +0100 (BST) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Herrick, Pom Poms , Cheerleaders and Spandex.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: On Tue, 19 Sep 2006, Herrick Goldman wrote: > We just opened our 3rd festival show tonight with 2 more to go, whilst I am > in Germany. Where apparently the Jaegermeister flows like water. In Germany and Austria, you have to say that water flows like beer, when it happens.... > The Invitation is open for anyone who wants to join me in the tents in > Munich for Oktoberfest this weekend. And actually continues through October, amazingly enough! C ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 06:30:21 +0100 (BST) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Close to home... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: On Tue, 19 Sep 2006, Richard Wright wrote: > only alive because as we later found out we were so far from the barn and the > receptacle that we had a lot of line loss. Actually, that would not account for it. It's probably just because your buddy acted quickly enough... and you were lucky. Charlie ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4510D62B.1050203 [at] fuse.net> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 01:48:27 -0400 From: Stuart Wheaton Reply-To: sdwheaton [at] fuse.net Subject: Re: Close to home... References: In-Reply-To: Steve Jones wrote: > Some of the "mechanical" things I want to check on at the school tomorrow > are: > > 1) Was the instrument grounded properly? A good thing to check, but likely immaterial. > 2) Is the connector in the circuit strip actually connected to a ground? See #1 > 3) Is the voltage correct? If it isn't, lamps would only last minutes... > 4) Why didn't a breaker flip if she was "shorting" for up to 30 seconds? Because she was resistance, the voltage was passing through her not going directly to the neutral/ground. If there were GFCI's it might have tripped, but since she grabbed the lamp parts and the lamp parts are supposed to conduct between them, even that might not have tripped. > > The soft things are: > > 1) Who trains them on theatre safety / procedures? > 2) Where was the teacher? > 3) Why was she allowed to call her mom and not immediately sent in an > ambulance (as she finally was)? Very good questions. > 4) How often is maintenance / inspection performed on the theatre and who > does it? She was changing a lamp....That IS maintenance. > > In doing some research and listening to folks from the list, the "locked > grip" at 110V seems possible - but the extent of her burns seems much more > severe than 110V would cause. > She was grabbing an energised filament. The surface temperature of an operating QH lamp envelope is between 250C and 400C. That's just about right for melting lead. 10-15 seconds of that can burn you quite severely. Imagine grabbing the business end of a soldering iron for that long. > > Anything else you can suggest to check? Your daughter said it best... She screwed up. We all do it from time to time, she did it pretty badly. But she should recover from it and nobody else was hurt, so as life lessons go, it could have been far worse. I know you love her very much, but be careful looking for excuses or trying to place blame on others. No teacher or supervisor can be on top of every student in the class at all times. The better, smarter and saner ones probably get less attention so the teacher can focus on protecting the goofballs. I wish her a speedy recovery. Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 23:04:49 -0700 From: "Mt. Angel Performing Arts Center" Subject: Re: Close to home... In-reply-to: Message-id: <4510DA01.5090302 [at] mtangelperformingarts.com> References: Stuart Wheaton wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Steve Jones wrote: > >> Some of the "mechanical" things I want to check on at the school >> tomorrow >> are: >> >> 1) Was the instrument grounded properly? > > A good thing to check, but likely immaterial. > This may actually be one of the situations in which a properly grounded instrument may make a bad situation worse. If she were holding (steadying) the fixture with one hand whilst changing the lamp with the other, there is a very real possibility of having 120 VAC traveling from the (broken) lamp hand to the instrument hand and passing directly through the general area of her heart. That's easily enough to cause heart failure. We were taught early on to keep one hand in a pocket while the other was doing work on energized electrical equipment. Not always practical, but certainly safe from a shock hazard perspective. "Unplug the fixture when relamping" may be words to live by. Carla ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1153.205.215.255.236.1158737669.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 00:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Close to home... From: "Bill Nelson" > 1) Was the instrument grounded properly? It doesn't matter. Such protections are only good when the instrument is used and handled properly. In this case, a properly wired instrument could have made matters worse. > 2) Is the connector in the circuit strip actually connected to a ground? > 3) Is the voltage correct? Relatively immaterial. > 4) Why didn't a breaker flip if she was "shorting" for up to 30 seconds? Because it only takes something like 15 ma to cause a "death grip". A 15 amp circuit breaker will stand a 20 amp overload for minutes before tripping. > 1) Who trains them on theatre safety / procedures? Good question. Was she trained and simply ignored the training? > 2) Where was the teacher? A teacher cannot watch everyone at once, all of the time. > 3) Why was she allowed to call her mom and not immediately sent in an > ambulance (as she finally was)? Was the delay life threatening? > 4) How often is maintenance / inspection performed on the theatre and who > does it? Maintenance and inspection by others would not have kept this from happening. > In doing some research and listening to folks from the list, the "locked > grip" at 110V seems possible - but the extent of her burns seems much more > severe than 110V would cause. Most likely, the burn was from the hot lamp envelope. > Anything else you can suggest to check? Review proper safety procedures with her. There is a reason that the regulations state to deenergize a circuit before working on it. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1163.205.215.255.236.1158738300.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 00:45:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Close to home... From: "Bill Nelson" > way. He was testing Altman Fresnels (of various ages) and rating them on > quality. He plugged in one, and was jolted pretty dramatically - I was > only > a few feet away, and he was screaming for help, as he was unable to drop > the > fixture. I was able to yank the cord from the rack's convenience outlet, > but the shock 'shook' him up pretty badly. (And toasted his cell phone > that was in his pocket.) > > The fault was in the fixture - short at the base - not any of the cabling. Was it a two wire fixture? That would not have happened with a properly wired 3 wire. Either that, or your convenience outlet does not have a proper safety ground. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1180.205.215.255.236.1158739643.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 01:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Close to home... From: "Bill Nelson" I am glad to hear that she is all right and only suffered some burns on her hand, it could have been much worse. > I am going in tomorrow to look over the schools gear, as I want to see > first > hand what happened. Maybe someone can correct me - but a properly wired > 110 > system (and at this point I assume the system is 110 at the point she was > at) shouldn't cause enough power to cause the muscles to contract (which > did > - she couldn't let go of the base and had to scream for 10-15 seconds > until > they killed the system) and cause 3rd degree burns. Your daughter bypassed all the proper wiring and safety built into the fixture when she grabbed the filament or lamp base of the energized instrument. Yes, 110V can cause such muscle contractions, even if the person is not grounded. From your description, the burns were probably caused by the filament or remaining pieces of the broken lamp globe, not the current itself, which was probably quite low. > Any pointers on what I should keep an I eye for as I look things over? I > don't even know at this point the type of system, dimmers, instrument, > wattage, or anything. It is all pretty much immaterial. There is probably nothing to examine. Your daughter was not stupid or ignorant, she was just careless. Hopefully, she has learned a lesson that we all seem to experience at some time in our careers. I learned mine when I tangled with the high voltage transformer of a color television set. 45 years later, I still have the small scars on my middle and little finger of the right hand - at the two points where I bridged the voltage. Bill ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #956 *****************************