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For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Stagecraft Digest, Issue #957

 1. vectorworks/lightwright question
    by "ROBERT E. GRAHAM" <Graham [at] lycoming.edu>
 2. Re: Close to home...
    by "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
 3. Re: vectorworks/lightwright question
    by Ian Schmidt <ischmidt [at] gmu.edu>
 4. Re: Close to home...
    by "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>
 5. Re: vectorworks/lightwright question
    by John McKernon <stagecraft2006 [at] mckernon.com>
 6. Re: Close to home...
    by "Gerald George" <gdgeorge [at] salisbury.edu>
 7. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes
    by "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>
 8. Close to home - followup
    by "Steve Jones" <steve.jones [at] glasgowplazatheatre.org>
 9. Re: Close to home - followup
    by "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>
10. Re: Close to home - followup
    by "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>
11. Re: Close to home - followup
    by "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>
12. Re: Close to home - followup
    by "Steve Jones" <steve.jones [at] glasgowplazatheatre.org>
13. Re: Close to home - followup
    by "Steve Jones" <steve.jones [at] glasgowplazatheatre.org>
14. Re: Close to home - followup
    by "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>
15. Re: Close to home - followup
    by "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>
16. Sound board for a theatre
    by "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>
17. Re: Close to home...
    by Stephen Rees <stephen.rees [at] fredonia.edu>
18. Re: Sound board for a theatre
    by "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>
19. Re: Close to home - followup
    by "Delbert Hall" <delbert.hall [at] gmail.com>
20. Re: Close to home - followup
    by <macarrillo [at] uisd.net>
21. Re: Sound board for a theatre
    by "John Penisten" <john.penisten [at] gmail.com>
22. Re: Spinning Person bit
    by "Michael Powers" <mptecdir [at] gmail.com>
23. Re: Close to home - followup
    by Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
24. Re: vectorworks/lightwright question
    by Samuel Jones <sjones [at] ucla.edu>
25. Re: disabled
    by Clive Mitchell <bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com>
26. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes
    by Clive Mitchell <bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com>
27. Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes
    by Clive Mitchell <bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com>
28. Re: Close to home...
    by Clive Mitchell <bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com>
29. Re: Close to home...
    by Clive Mitchell <bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com>
30. Re: Close to home...
    by Clive Mitchell <bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com>
31. Re: Close to home...
    by Clive Mitchell <bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com>
32. Re: Sound board for a theatre
    by "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>
33. Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan
    by Ron Cargile <rcargile [at] uci.edu>
34. Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
35. Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan
    by "Peter Scheu" <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
36. Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan
    by "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>
37. Re: disabled
    by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
38. Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan
    by Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
39. Hello out there
    by MartySrq [at] aol.com
40. Re: Hello out there
    by Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
41. Re: Close to home...
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
42. Re: Close to home...
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
43. Re: Close to home...
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
44. Re: Close to home...
    by "Steve Jones" <steve.jones [at] glasgowplazatheatre.org>
45. Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan
    by "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>
46. Re: Hello out there
    by KEITH ARSENAULT <iaeg [at] aol.com>
47. Re: Close to home...
    by Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
48. Re: Close to home...
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
49. Re: Close to home...
    by "Gerald George" <gdgeorge [at] salisbury.edu>
50. Re: Close to home...
    by Jeff Grams <jdgrams [at] saintmarys.edu>
51. Re: Hello out there
    by "Alf Sauve" <Alf.Sauve [at] mtbethel.org>
52. Color Coding Fixtures
    by "Rob Carovillano" <rcarovil [at] sju.edu>
53. Re: Color Coding Fixtures
    by "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>
54. Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
55. Re: Color Coding Fixtures
    by "Paul Puppo" <ppuppo [at] gmail.com>
56. Re: Color Coding Fixtures
    by Kenneth Zinkl <kzinkl [at] sbcglobal.net>
57. Re: Sound board for a theatre
    by Brian James <brianedwardjames [at] gmail.com>
58. Re: Close to home...
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
59. Re: Color Coding Fixtures
    by "Alf Sauve" <alf.sauve [at] mindspring.com>
60. Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan
    by Charlie Richmond <charlier [at] RichmondSoundDesign.com>
61. Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan
    by "Shawn King" <skingld [at] gmail.com>
62. Re: Close to home...
    by Dale farmer <dale [at] cybercom.net>
63. Re: Close to home - followup
    by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com
64. Station Club Fire -- update
    by Theatre Safety Programs <theatresafe [at] jgorrell.com>
65. Re: Close to home - followup
    by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com
66. Re: Color Coding Fixtures
    by Jeffrey Cebula <jmcebula [at] yahoo.com>

*** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject
*** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to
*** one message subject in each reply.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <4510FA99.F2D6.0036.0 [at] lycoming.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:21:17 -0400
From: "ROBERT E. GRAHAM" <Graham [at] lycoming.edu>
Subject: vectorworks/lightwright question


Hello Stagecraft readers.

I've been trying to decipher this conundrum on my own, and can't seem
to, so I thought I'd ask here.

I'm running Vectorworks 11.5.1 and the latest Lightwight version here
at work, and I have a peculiar problem.

When trying to update plot information, Vectorworks doesn't seem to be
exporting information to Lightwright correctly.

If the instruments were in the 'initial' import into vectorworks,
there's not a problem.  However, if its something I add AFTER I've moved
data over once, I can't seem to get the new information to come into LW.
 I use the 'merge data' function after I've created the initial LW
worksheets.  I can add the information in manually, but then when I make
changes, I get orphans because the LW file doesn't contain the unique
vectorworks instrument ID's for each symbol.

I've done everything VW instructs about data exchange, but something's
not jiving, and I'm clueless.  Can anyone help me out?

Thanks,

Robert Graham
Lycoming College Theatre Department

"99% of the people in the world are complete idiots.  The rest of us
are in grave danger of contamination."



Lycoming College Theatre Department
Lighting Designer/Technical Director
Academic Center  C-109
570-321-4133
graham [at] lycoming.edu

------------------------------

Message-ID: <001501c6dcb2$97c901a0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS>
From: "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
References: <list-35113112 [at] prxy.net> <list-35119095 [at] prxy.net> <list-35130399 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: Close to home...
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 05:45:03 -0700

> Was it a two wire fixture? That would not have happened with a properly
> wired 3 wire. Either that, or your convenience outlet does not have a
> proper safety ground.


3-wire.  One wire inside (at the socket) came free.  The convenience outlet 
was fairly new, and was installed by an electrician on the outside of the 
dimmer rack - wired to a non-dim module in the rack (CD-80).

     - Jon Ares
www.hevanet.com/acreative 


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:18:19 -0400
From: Ian Schmidt <ischmidt [at] gmu.edu>
Subject: Re: vectorworks/lightwright question
In-reply-to: <list-35140492 [at] prxy.net>
Message-id: <45113F9B.90604 [at] gmu.edu>
Organization: George Mason University
References: <list-35140492 [at] prxy.net>

ROBERT E. GRAHAM wrote:
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Hello Stagecraft readers.
>
> I've been trying to decipher this conundrum on my own, and can't seem
> to, so I thought I'd ask here.
>
> I'm running Vectorworks 11.5.1 and the latest Lightwight version here
> at work, and I have a peculiar problem.
>
> When trying to update plot information, Vectorworks doesn't seem to be
> exporting information to Lightwright correctly.
>
> If the instruments were in the 'initial' import into vectorworks,
> there's not a problem.  However, if its something I add AFTER I've moved
> data over once, I can't seem to get the new information to come into LW.
>  I use the 'merge data' function after I've created the initial LW
> worksheets.  I can add the information in manually, but then when I make
> changes, I get orphans because the LW file doesn't contain the unique
> vectorworks instrument ID's for each symbol.
>
> I've done everything VW instructs about data exchange, but something's
> not jiving, and I'm clueless.  Can anyone help me out?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robert Graham
> Lycoming College Theatre Department
>
> "99% of the people in the world are complete idiots.  The rest of us
> are in grave danger of contamination."
>
>
>
> Lycoming College Theatre Department
> Lighting Designer/Technical Director
> Academic Center  C-109
> 570-321-4133
> graham [at] lycoming.edu
>   
Are you having Lightwright add a line for each new instrument that is 
brought in?  Or just merging.  Another way around this is to create a 
new LW each time that you export from VW and then merge a blank show 
file with dimming system info and such afterward.

Ian

-- 
Ian Schmidt
Master Electrician
Center for the Arts
George Mason University


------------------------------

Subject: RE: Close to home...
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:27:12 -0400
Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A064380BF [at] exchange.rmwc.edu>
In-Reply-To: <list-35116109 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>

First things first...good to hear she's okay.  Also good to hear that
she understood where she went wrong and 'fessed up.

But it is another reason to push manufacturers to follow Selecon's lead
and install microswitches that cut mains power to the socket when the
lamp base is removed...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:35:16 -0400
Subject: Re: vectorworks/lightwright question
From: John McKernon <stagecraft2006 [at] mckernon.com>
Message-ID: <C136BBD4.107FD%stagecraft2006 [at] mckernon.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-35140492 [at] prxy.net>

> I use the 'merge data' function after I've created the initial LW
> worksheets.  I can add the information in manually, but then when I make
> changes, I get orphans because the LW file doesn't contain the unique
> vectorworks instrument ID's for each symbol.

Make sure when you export out of VW that the VW instrument ID's are
exported. When you import and/or merge into Lightwright, put the VW ID's
into LW's "External ID" field, and when you send your data back to VW, be
sure the External ID field data goes into VW's instrument ID field.

If you're using Spotlight, then you should upgrade to VW 12, as it
understands LW4's accessories field (VW 11.5 doesn't).

Contact me off list if you need further help, or contact Sam Jones
(AutoPlot), as he's the master of all such things.

- John



------------------------------

Message-Id: <s5110daf.065 [at] mail2.salisbury.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:45:10 -0400
From: "Gerald George" <gdgeorge [at] salisbury.edu>
Subject: Re: Close to home...

Good heavens!  I too am glad she's alright. If it's alright with Steve,
I'm going to post a copy of his post, with the names removed, in a
prominant place in the shop here.  It's so often the more experienced
students that do the really frightening things.  I think that things
like this are good to pass on.

Cheers.  And best wishes to your daughter!

Jerry

G. D. George
Technical Director and Lighting Designer
Department of Communcation and Theatre Arts
Salisbury University
Salisbury, MD  
21801

gdgeorge(at)salisbury(dot)edu


>>> steve.jones [at] glasgowplazatheatre.org 9/19/2006 6:42:41 PM >>>
For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see
<http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Well, today was an interesting day.

I got a call around 2:30 this afternoon on my cell phone from my wife. 
She
is a physician and was calling me from the hospital emergency room. 
She
said I needed to come to the hospital because our 17 year old daughter
had
been badly shocked by electricity at the high school theatre where she
was
working on the drama program.

Once my heart began beating again, I found out that she is OK.  But she
does
have some third degree burns on her hand - mainly index finger and
thumb of
left hand.  She may need some graft work.  It turns out that she (in
her own
words "being stupid") was removing a burnt out lamp from an instrument
with
it still plugged in and on.  As she removed it, the glass envelope
broke off
(we've all been there) and then she (*shudder*) reached in and tried
to
remove the still seated, broken base.  That's when she was shocked. 
She has
worked with me a good deal in the theatre and KNOWS this was the wrong
thing
to do and wrong way to do it.  In addition to the physical pain, she
feels
"really stupid" (again, her words) as she "knows better".

I am going in tomorrow to look over the schools gear, as I want to see
first
hand what happened.  Maybe someone can correct me - but a properly
wired 110
system (and at this point I assume the system is 110 at the point she
was
at) shouldn't cause enough power to cause the muscles to contract
(which did
- she couldn't let go of the base and had to scream for 10-15 seconds
until
they killed the system) and cause 3rd degree burns.  Maybe it's just
that
I've never grabbed a live 110 circuit and "held on".  I've "knicked"
myself
on them at home before and got a nasty little "buzz" on my hand - but
nothing that ever felt like a jolt she must have gotten.  I want to see
if
the system is wired properly.  I'm not interested in suing anyone - I
just
want to make sure the kids are safe (since no one else seems to have
done
it).

Any pointers on what I should keep an I eye for as I look things over? 
I
don't even know at this point the type of system, dimmers, instrument,
wattage, or anything.

Thank God / Allah / Buddha / Muhammad / Anyone Else that she was not
hurt
worse.

Thanks!

Steve



*************************************
Steve Jones, Director
Plaza Theatre
115 E. Main Street
Glasgow, KY  42141
Voice: (270) 361-2101
Fax: (270) 834-8147
http://www.glasgowplazatheatre.org 



------------------------------

Message-ID: <1390.205.215.255.236.1158760673.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org>
In-Reply-To: <list-35109133 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35098992 [at] prxy.net> <list-35099286 [at] prxy.net> 
    <list-35108333 [at] prxy.net> <list-35109133 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 06:57:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes
From: "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>

>> Just trying to keep things lively,  No way would I put a jacob's ladder
>> anywhere near an actor, (even if they deserved it)
>
> If a Jacob's ladder is used with a dead mans handle controlled by a
> technician assigned solely to that task, then it's a safe effect.

Not necessarily, they produce both ozone and NO2. NO2 is not an oxide of
nitrogen that you want to breath at all and more than very low
concentrations of ozone are also harmful.

Bill


------------------------------

From: "Steve Jones" <steve.jones [at] glasgowplazatheatre.org>
Subject: Close to home - followup
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:10:53 -0500
Message-ID: <000001c6dcbe$95847260$6601a8c0 [at] plazadirector>
In-Reply-To: <list-35130969 [at] prxy.net>

Spent an hour or so at the school and here is what I found.

Instrument and system were fine.  OK voltage and all grounded correctly.
Fairly new equipment in good condition.  No scarring on the base or socket
from any previous problems - just normal heat discoloration.

The quartz envelope and filament were completely gone (broken off) BEFORE
she attempted to remove the bipost base.  She recalls there being no exposed
filament when she grabbed the base.  The lamp had been burnt out for a
while, so it was cool to the touch in terms of temperature, so there were no
burns from a hot envelope or filament.  The fact that it had been burnt out
for a while out when she approached it may have led her to assume the power
was off to it, as the lamp didn't burn out while she was working.  She was
also in the catwalk, where it is appreciably warmer - so she probably had
fairly sweaty hands.

Upon closer inspection of the instrument base and the reaming lamp base, I
can "guesstimate" what happened.  There was about a 1/4" long wire sticking
up inside the remaining lamp base from one of the post connections.  I am
guessing the only remnant of the filament.  It was sticking straight up.
The base was also pinched shut.  The scenario seems to be this:

1) Upon trying to remove the lamp, both envelope and filament were yanked
out in one quick motion.  All signs of an insulator in the base were gone
too.  (The school didn't have the envelope and filament for me to examine -
I don't know where they ended up).
2) There was one 1/4" wire that was left exposed inside the base - but it
was sticking straight up from one post and not touching the walls of the
base - so no completed circuit.
3) When she attempted to pull out the base, she pinched the base's long
sides between her curled index finger and thumb and squeezed hard so she
could get a good grip to pull.
4) As she squeezed the base, since it is a fairly soft metal, and there was
no longer any envelope or other material to help hold the base in shape, she
pinched the opening in the base closed.  As she did, the sides of the base
came in contact with the 1/4" wire that was still live, causing the circuit
to complete.  This would be consistent with the burn marks location on her
hand.  In addition to electrical flow, I am sure the base itself heated up
and added to the burn as she was "attached" between 15-30 seconds.  And
since she was already squeezing hard on the base to pull it out (hard enough
to collapse the base) the current didn't have to lock up her muscles that
much - she was already squeezing pretty hard upon contact.  The current just
made her hold an already strong grip.

In regards the "blame" issue:
I did not go to the school to blame anyone.  My daughter stuck her fingers
into a live socket.  It is simple as that.  She knew better but had a lapse
of judgment.  But as both a father and a theatre technician, I would be
remiss in not investigating the details of what happened.  She was so
stunned, she wasn't sure what happened after the fact.  The other kids
working with her were nearly hysterical, so not much help there.  The school
officials didn't have the knowledge of how theatre systems work to get a
grip on the situation. (Ex: In talking with the principal, at one point I
mentioned looking at the filament for a possible source of burns as well,
and he asked "What is a filament?"  He also said that their "in house"
electrician said you can't really remove those bi-post lamps - you just
"hafta grab 'em w/ pliers and pull 'em out and they break 'em off most of
the time and then dig out the base").  I wanted to be sure there wasn't a
situation where my daughter or other kids could get hurt because of faulty
wiring, poor equipment, etc.  Or that this was a sign of bigger and more
dangerous problems.  I also wanted to be sure that there wasn't an
administrative knee-jerk reaction of banning the theatre kids from working
in the tech side.

As to the teacher, I wasn't looking to blame her.  But I think it is fairly
valid to ask if she was in the auditorium working with the kids or was she
in the classroom or an office leaving them on their own?  I agree a teacher
can't watch all the kids all the time - but that isn't the same thing as
total lack of supervision or presence while students are working on the
theatre lighting system.

Steve


*************************************
Steve Jones, Director
Plaza Theatre
115 E. Main Street
Glasgow, KY  42141
Voice: (270) 361-2101
Fax: (270) 834-8147
http://www.glasgowplazatheatre.org 



------------------------------

Message-ID: <1415.205.215.255.236.1158761891.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org>
In-Reply-To: <list-35144672 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35130969 [at] prxy.net> <list-35144672 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:18:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Close to home - followup
From: "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>

> and he asked "What is a filament?"  He also said that their "in house"
> electrician said you can't really remove those bi-post lamps - you just
> "hafta grab 'em w/ pliers and pull 'em out and they break 'em off most of
> the time and then dig out the base").

If the electrician really said that, then he/she is an idiot and should be
replaced immediately.

Bill


------------------------------

Subject: RE: Close to home - followup
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:20:04 -0400
Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0643811E [at] exchange.rmwc.edu>
In-Reply-To: <list-35145018 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>

> > and he asked "What is a filament?"  He also said that their=20
> "in house"
> > electrician said you can't really remove those bi-post lamps - you=20
> > just "hafta grab 'em w/ pliers and pull 'em out and they=20
> break 'em off=20
> > most of the time and then dig out the base").
>=20
> If the electrician really said that, then he/she is an idiot=20
> and should be replaced immediately.

...preferably with a really big pair of pliers, working them back and
forth and pulling as hard as you can.

------------------------------

Message-ID: <1426.205.215.255.236.1158762379.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org>
In-Reply-To: <list-35145207 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35145018 [at] prxy.net> <list-35145207 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:26:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Close to home - followup
From: "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>

>> If the electrician really said that, then he/she is an idiot
>> and should be replaced immediately.
>
> ...preferably with a really big pair of pliers, working them back and
> forth and pulling as hard as you can.

The only time I have ever encountered a bipost that needed pliers to
remove was when a lamp socket was badly burned and the lamp pins had arc
welded to the socket.

So if lamps are routinely sticking like that, then the sockets need
replacement.

Bill



------------------------------

From: "Steve Jones" <steve.jones [at] glasgowplazatheatre.org>
Subject: RE: Close to home - followup
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:35:07 -0500
Message-ID: <000101c6dcc1$f9449ca0$6601a8c0 [at] plazadirector>
In-Reply-To: <list-35145018 [at] prxy.net>

Keep in mind that this is probably some general maintenance guy who has no
experience with any kind of "bulb" other than a standard screw in or a
fluorescent tube.  I don't think it was a licensed electrician.

Steve



*************************************
Steve Jones, Director
Plaza Theatre
115 E. Main Street
Glasgow, KY  42141
Voice: (270) 361-2101
Fax: (270) 834-8147
http://www.glasgowplazatheatre.org 
-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Nelson
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:18 AM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Re: Close to home - followup

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

> and he asked "What is a filament?"  He also said that their "in house"
> electrician said you can't really remove those bi-post lamps - you 
> just "hafta grab 'em w/ pliers and pull 'em out and they break 'em off 
> most of the time and then dig out the base").

If the electrician really said that, then he/she is an idiot and should be
replaced immediately.

Bill





------------------------------

From: "Steve Jones" <steve.jones [at] glasgowplazatheatre.org>
Subject: RE: Close to home - followup
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:36:17 -0500
Message-ID: <000201c6dcc2$224aee60$6601a8c0 [at] plazadirector>
In-Reply-To: <list-35145515 [at] prxy.net>

From what I saw, their bases are fine and not arcing at all.  So not sure
why he's needing pliers.  It may be the kids only ask him for help on the
ones that do arc and they can't get out.

Steve 



*************************************
Steve Jones, Director
Plaza Theatre
115 E. Main Street
Glasgow, KY  42141
Voice: (270) 361-2101
Fax: (270) 834-8147
http://www.glasgowplazatheatre.org 
-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Nelson
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:26 AM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Re: Close to home - followup

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

>> If the electrician really said that, then he/she is an idiot and 
>> should be replaced immediately.
>
> ...preferably with a really big pair of pliers, working them back and 
> forth and pulling as hard as you can.

The only time I have ever encountered a bipost that needed pliers to remove
was when a lamp socket was badly burned and the lamp pins had arc welded to
the socket.

So if lamps are routinely sticking like that, then the sockets need
replacement.

Bill






------------------------------

Message-ID: <1440.205.215.255.236.1158763101.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org>
In-Reply-To: <list-35145888 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35145018 [at] prxy.net> <list-35145888 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:38:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Close to home - followup
From: "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>

> Keep in mind that this is probably some general maintenance guy who has no
> experience with any kind of "bulb" other than a standard screw in or a
> fluorescent tube.  I don't think it was a licensed electrician.

It doesn't matter. That person does not belong anywhere around theatre
lighting instruments - much less advising staff and students on how to
maintain/repair them.

Bill


------------------------------

Subject: RE: Close to home - followup
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:44:58 -0400
Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0643815D [at] exchange.rmwc.edu>
In-Reply-To: <list-35145963 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>

> From what I saw, their bases are fine and not arcing at all. =20
> So not sure why he's needing pliers.  It may be the kids only=20
> ask him for help on the ones that do arc and they can't get out.

It's also possible that it's just a lack of understanding on his part
about how the bases are *supposed* to work.  I know that it's tempting
to just yank on the envelope because most often there's precious little
of the base to grab on a standard EHG or similar bipost lamp; if that's
how he started doing it without training, he's had no reason to alter
that behavior.  And, in a weird sense, his logic is kinda sound, in that
the lamp is already blown to begin with, there's no "need" to keep it
intact in removal.

Not that this is the sort of procedure I'd recommend, of course, but at
least it's somewhat understandable (if not unjustifiable).

------------------------------

Message-ID: <1446.205.215.255.236.1158763550.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org>
In-Reply-To: <list-35145963 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35145515 [at] prxy.net> <list-35145963 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:45:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Sound board for a theatre
From: "Bill Nelson" <billn [at] peak.org>

What would be a good mixer for a theatre that produces mostly plays but
occasionally has dance performances? An occasional play will have live
music. We sometimes have musicals where the director insists on miking the
singers, even though this is only a 300 seat house with good acoustics.
For a play coming up this next spring, there will be at least 16 wireless
mikes.

The budget, as usual for community theatre, is very tight - so top of the
line equipment is out of the question. An analog board is acceptable.

Bill


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:41:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Close to home...
From: Stephen Rees <stephen.rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Message-ID: <C136BD63.1BED%stephen.rees [at] fredonia.edu>
In-Reply-To: <list-35119722 [at] prxy.net>

I once did EXACTLY the same thing when a college freshman.  I did it while
atop a 16 ft. ladder and I have never forgotten the lesson learned.  Am not
sure which was worse - the shocking experience or the fall. I'm glad she was
not injured more seriously and I wish her a speedy recovery.
Steve Rees
SUNY-Fredonia


On 9/19/06 9:36 PM, "Laura McMeley" <lmcmeley [at] msn.com> wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Tell your daughter she's not stupid, just not careful enough. We all make
> mistakes. Thank goodness she wasn't hurt any worse than she was, and learn
> the lesson to remember her lessons in safety from now on. I hope she heals
> quickly.
> 
> Laura
> LD, Dallas
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Steve
>> Jones
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:43 PM
>> To: Stagecraft
>> Subject: Close to home...
>> 
>> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Well, today was an interesting day.
>> 
>> I got a call around 2:30 this afternoon on my cell phone from my wife.
>> She
>> is a physician and was calling me from the hospital emergency room.  She
>> said I needed to come to the hospital because our 17 year old daughter had
>> been badly shocked by electricity at the high school theatre where she was
>> working on the drama program.
>> 
>> Once my heart began beating again, I found out that she is OK.  But she
>> does
>> have some third degree burns on her hand - mainly index finger and thumb
>> of
>> left hand.  She may need some graft work.  It turns out that she (in her
>> own
>> words "being stupid") was removing a burnt out lamp from an instrument
>> with
>> it still plugged in and on.  As she removed it, the glass envelope broke
>> off
>> (we've all been there) and then she (*shudder*) reached in and tried to
>> remove the still seated, broken base.  That's when she was shocked.  She
>> has
>> worked with me a good deal in the theatre and KNOWS this was the wrong
>> thing
>> to do and wrong way to do it.  In addition to the physical pain, she feels
>> "really stupid" (again, her words) as she "knows better".
>> 
>> I am going in tomorrow to look over the schools gear, as I want to see
>> first
>> hand what happened.  Maybe someone can correct me - but a properly wired
>> 110
>> system (and at this point I assume the system is 110 at the point she was
>> at) shouldn't cause enough power to cause the muscles to contract (which
>> did
>> - she couldn't let go of the base and had to scream for 10-15 seconds
>> until
>> they killed the system) and cause 3rd degree burns.  Maybe it's just that
>> I've never grabbed a live 110 circuit and "held on".  I've "knicked"
>> myself
>> on them at home before and got a nasty little "buzz" on my hand - but
>> nothing that ever felt like a jolt she must have gotten.  I want to see if
>> the system is wired properly.  I'm not interested in suing anyone - I just
>> want to make sure the kids are safe (since no one else seems to have done
>> it).
>> 
>> Any pointers on what I should keep an I eye for as I look things over?  I
>> don't even know at this point the type of system, dimmers, instrument,
>> wattage, or anything.
>> 
>> Thank God / Allah / Buddha / Muhammad / Anyone Else that she was not hurt
>> worse.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *************************************
>> Steve Jones, Director
>> Plaza Theatre
>> 115 E. Main Street
>> Glasgow, KY  42141
>> Voice: (270) 361-2101
>> Fax: (270) 834-8147
>> http://www.glasgowplazatheatre.org
>> 
> 
> 


------------------------------

Subject: RE: Sound board for a theatre
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:06:15 -0400
Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A06438190 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu>
In-Reply-To: <list-35146358 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>

Sounds like you need a 24-channel input minimum, though 32 would be
better.  Assuming a decent number of monitors and other feeds, you're
probably looking at something similar to a Soundcraft SeriesTWO 32x8.
Slightly more expensive than others, but for comparable quality you
could look at the Allen and Heath line.  Those two companies will, IMO,
get you the best bang for the buck before you cross the line into
durability/crosstalk hell (i.e., a certain brand that sounds almost, but
not quite, like "hackie").

IIRC the Soundcraft 24x8 is somewhere in the $2600-3200 range, but I
could be just pulling numbers outta my arse here.

------------------------------

Message-ID: <b7318c480609200824v78016abaiede31ea708459c0c [at] mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:24:57 -0400
From: "Delbert Hall" <delbert.hall [at] gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Close to home - followup
In-Reply-To: <list-35145515 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35145018 [at] prxy.net> <list-35145207 [at] prxy.net>
	 <list-35145515 [at] prxy.net>

I think that if you try to *unscrew*  a bipost lamp from a socket
(instead of pulling it straight out), big pliers are probably
necessary. ;-)

I am glad to hear that Steve's daughter was not more seriously injured
and that Steve's investigation of the accident was done in a very
professional and responsable manner.

-Delbert

On 9/20/06, Bill Nelson <billn [at] peak.org> wrote:
> The only time I have ever encountered a bipost that needed pliers to
> remove was when a lamp socket was badly burned and the lamp pins had arc
> welded to the socket.
>
> So if lamps are routinely sticking like that, then the sockets need
> replacement.
>
> Bill
>
>
>


-- 
Delbert L. Hall
423-773-4255
ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre

------------------------------

From: <macarrillo [at] uisd.net>
Subject: Re: Close to home - followup
Message-Id: <20060920101807.CFQ14781 [at] mail.uisd.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:18:07 -0500 (CDT)

> > and he asked "What is a filament?"  He also said that their 
> "in house"
> > electrician said you can't really remove those bi-post lamps - you 
> > just "hafta grab 'em w/ pliers and pull 'em out and they 
> break 'em off 
> > most of the time and then dig out the base").


Then Maybe the in house electrician should "grab 'em w/ pliers and pull 'em out and then break 'em off most of the time and then dig out the base" preferably while the principal is watching...lets throw some live current in the equation. :O

-Michael 

------------------------------

Message-ID: <87e6786e0609200837u6d81d7f9sf6298e9976f76bf5 [at] mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:37:43 -0500
From: "John Penisten" <john.penisten [at] gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Sound board for a theatre
In-Reply-To: <list-35147694 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35146358 [at] prxy.net> <list-35147694 [at] prxy.net>

The list on the SERIES-TWO-24 is $5995.  I would also look at the
Midas Venice, which has the same list price for a 32 channel or the
Allen & Heath GL2800-832, also at the same list price.  The Spirit
board that is closer to that $3000 range is the LX7II which has a list
of $2199 for the 24ch and $2659 for the 32ch, or the Soundcraft GB2-24
or 32 which list for $2899 and $3629 respectively.

Please feel free to contact me off list for more specifics.

Thanks,
John

On 9/20/06, Paul Schreiner <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu> wrote:
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Sounds like you need a 24-channel input minimum, though 32 would be
> better.  Assuming a decent number of monitors and other feeds, you're
> probably looking at something similar to a Soundcraft SeriesTWO 32x8.
> Slightly more expensive than others, but for comparable quality you
> could look at the Allen and Heath line.  Those two companies will, IMO,
> get you the best bang for the buck before you cross the line into
> durability/crosstalk hell (i.e., a certain brand that sounds almost, but
> not quite, like "hackie").
>
> IIRC the Soundcraft 24x8 is somewhere in the $2600-3200 range, but I
> could be just pulling numbers outta my arse here.
>

------------------------------

Message-ID: <58f67b0f0609200837o70eb17fawe5d0c6376b90b7e5 [at] mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:37:52 -0500
From: "Michael Powers" <mptecdir [at] gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Spinning Person bit

A few years back I was asked to do the knife bit for "A Little Night
Music".  It's a very easy effect as there is only one knife.  Oh, and
by the way, the director wants to start with the knife stuck in a
table top.  The thrower pulls it out, cuts an apple apart and suddenly
throws the knife into the dressing screen next to the other character.
 The thrower then walks over, pulls the knife out and further
intimidates the other character while cutting the apple in two and
finally stabs it back into the table top, leaving it there
quivering........all on the front part of a 3/4 thrust stage.  Well
the knife appearance was simple.  The mechanism was pneumatic with a
12v relay operating a 12v solenoid valve.  The dressing screen was
carried on and set in place au vista in the middle of the room so we
used battery for the power source, a garage door opener for the remote
to trigger the relay and a small 2.5" x 10" (63mm x 254mm) air tank so
the unit was totally self contained.  The knife was held in a spring
steel pincher, kind of like tongs or a steel clothes pin, that
squeezed together very tightly.  The actuator was a 1/2" bore 8"
stroke (12mm x 200mm - roughly) cylinder.  The first test in the shop
was a big surprise.  The knife popped out just great! Faster than the
eye could see.......faster than the eye could see 50' across the shop!
 If I slowed the cylinder down enough for the spring clip to hold the
knife, the action was clearly visible.  I  drilled an identical, 1/8"
(3mm) hole near the tip of each knife blade and also through the
spring clip.  I then mounted a small cylinder 5/16" bore by 3/4"
stroke (8mm x 19mm) perpendicular to the knife blade. A small steel
rod was inserted through the hole in the blade and the spring clip and
pulled out by the small second cylinder.  I used a clippard delay
valve to actuate the second cylinder about 1/2 second after the first
one.  I did have to sand down the rod a touch to get a "loose" fit so
the pin would come out every time reliably.  The screen was decorated
with an intricate brocade pattern.  To ease the reset every day, we
silk screened the pattern onto 6" wide (152mm) Lycra fabric and then
"wall papered" the strips onto the dressing screen with about 1/8"
(3mm) overlap.  The hole for the knife was centered on one of the
seams.  The haft of the knife was rounded and pushed through the loose
seam with ease and the Lycra then closed cleanly around the blade
without leaving any tell-tale paper rips or such to show.  Because
both knifes has to have real blades and be at least sharp enough to
cut the apple, the actor went through a lot of training with the fight
choreographer to make the throwing technique seamless and safe.  The
way the choreographer had him do it, he actually concealed the knife
on the back swing and there was no knife in his hand by the time his
arm moved forward.  The actor did such a good job, audience members
swore they saw the knife fly through the air.  The action of then
pulling the knife out convinced them the gag was real.  We did gimmick
the table top with a urethane foam insert.  Try stabbing an oak table
top sometime and you'll see why!

Michael

Michael Powers
Director of Operations
Central Lighting & Equipment
1720 Fuller Rd. Suite 150
West Des Moines Iowa 50265
515-277-4190   877-977-4190
Fax  515-277-2295
515-557-0178  cell
michael [at] clelights.com

------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-35144672 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35144672 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <DCE2D527-F61A-4C2F-967B-0C8257EA511C [at] rochester.rr.com>
From: Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Close to home - followup
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:46:51 -0400


On 20 Sep 2006, at 10:10, Steve Jones wrote:

>  I also wanted to be sure that there wasn't an
> administrative knee-jerk reaction of banning the theatre kids from  
> working
> in the tech side.

	Reading  this thread this morning, I was just about to mention this  
very concern. Glad I waited 'till I finished reading all the posts,  
and found that you had the same thought.

	As others have said, she had a great "Learning experience", and is  
not likely to make that same mistake again! Chances are, neither will  
her classmates. I believe it was Nietzsche that said "What doesn't  
kill us makes is stronger".

	 I'm certainly glad that she wasn't hurt worse, and I wish her a  
speedy recovery.

Bruce
____________________
Bruce Purdy
Technical Director
Smith Opera House




------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-35143231 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35143231 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <97bd664bf64db95cbb582cf00523f0a9 [at] ucla.edu>
From: Samuel Jones <sjones [at] ucla.edu>
Subject: Re: vectorworks/lightwright question
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:31:30 -0700

Ian got it right with his first sentence.  There is a button on the 
merge/import dialog in LW that specifies that you want to add a line 
for each new light; make sure this is checked.  I missed it, and for 
the longest time I couldn't figure out what was wrong.  John took about 
5 seconds to straighten me out.  Many of us have missed that button and 
had this problem.  I can't figure out a way for John to make the dialog 
box any clearer.  If that turns out not to be the source of your 
problem, let me know.

Samuel L. Jones
AutoPlotVW and AutoPlot Tools for SpotLight Developer
sjones [at] arts.ucla.edu
(310) 207-0392(h)
(310) 825-5823(w)
(310) 993-4172(c)

==========================================================

On Sep 20, 2006, at 6:18 AM, Ian Schmidt wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> ROBERT E. GRAHAM wrote:
>> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
>> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Hello Stagecraft readers.
>>
>> I've been trying to decipher this conundrum on my own, and can't seem
>> to, so I thought I'd ask here.
>>
>> I'm running Vectorworks 11.5.1 and the latest Lightwight version here
>> at work, and I have a peculiar problem.
>>
>> When trying to update plot information, Vectorworks doesn't seem to be
>> exporting information to Lightwright correctly.
>>
>> If the instruments were in the 'initial' import into vectorworks,
>> there's not a problem.  However, if its something I add AFTER I've 
>> moved
>> data over once, I can't seem to get the new information to come into 
>> LW.
>>  I use the 'merge data' function after I've created the initial LW
>> worksheets.  I can add the information in manually, but then when I 
>> make
>> changes, I get orphans because the LW file doesn't contain the unique
>> vectorworks instrument ID's for each symbol.
>>
>> I've done everything VW instructs about data exchange, but something's
>> not jiving, and I'm clueless.  Can anyone help me out?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Robert Graham
>> Lycoming College Theatre Department
>>
>> "99% of the people in the world are complete idiots.  The rest of us
>> are in grave danger of contamination."
>>
>>
>>
>> Lycoming College Theatre Department
>> Lighting Designer/Technical Director
>> Academic Center  C-109
>> 570-321-4133
>> graham [at] lycoming.edu
>>
> Are you having Lightwright add a line for each new instrument that is 
> brought in?  Or just merging.  Another way around this is to create a 
> new LW each time that you export from VW and then merge a blank show 
> file with dimming system info and such afterward.
>
> Ian
>
> -- 
> Ian Schmidt
> Master Electrician
> Center for the Arts
> George Mason University
>


------------------------------

Message-ID: <Gp3UoHDnIWEFFwtc [at] ntlworld.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:45:43 +0100
From: Clive Mitchell <bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: disabled
References: <list-35040993 [at] prxy.net> <list-35118663 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-35118663 [at] prxy.net>

In message <list-35118663 [at] prxy.net>, Jeffrey E. Salzberg 
<stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com> writes
>> Pathetically
>> Childish.....
>
>Are you referring to those who are PC, or to those who have a desperate 
>need to reaffirm themselves by affecting a hostile attitude at the mere 
>thought that someone might expect them to accommodate the needs of 
>those less fortunate than themselves?

I'm talking about the whimpering do-gooders who don't have a job that 
contributes in any worthwhile way to society, and take it upon 
themselves to make life difficult for all the honest hard working men 
and women of the world by relentlessly campaigning to make everything 
fit the lowest common denominator.

-- 
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

------------------------------

Message-ID: <OZ5WEsDcKWEFFwvK [at] ntlworld.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:47:40 +0100
From: Clive Mitchell <bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes
References: <list-35098992 [at] prxy.net> <list-35099286 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-35108333 [at] prxy.net> <list-35109133 [at] prxy.net> <list-35144109 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-35144109 [at] prxy.net>

In message <list-35144109 [at] prxy.net>, Bill Nelson <billn [at] peak.org> writes
>>> Just trying to keep things lively,  No way would I put a jacob's ladder
>>> anywhere near an actor, (even if they deserved it)
>>
>> If a Jacob's ladder is used with a dead mans handle controlled by a
>> technician assigned solely to that task, then it's a safe effect.
>
>Not necessarily, they produce both ozone and NO2. NO2 is not an oxide 
>of nitrogen that you want to breath at all and more than very low 
>concentrations of ozone are also harmful.

You forgot the UV emissions.  In short bursts as an effect the ozone 
products will not be significant.

-- 
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

------------------------------

Message-ID: <04bIscEWMWEFFwrt [at] ntlworld.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:49:42 +0100
From: Clive Mitchell <bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: God of Hell Blue Flashes
References: <list-35098992 [at] prxy.net> <list-35099286 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-35108333 [at] prxy.net> <list-35109133 [at] prxy.net> <list-35118801 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-35118801 [at] prxy.net>

In message <list-35118801 [at] prxy.net>, Jon Ares <jonares [at] hevanet.com> 
writes
>> BTW - Clive - if you've got a copy of the uncensored version, I'll pay
>> for a duplicate.  Sounds like too much fun.
>
>
>Me too... this film sounds like a GREAT after-performance get-together. 
>All the effects and theatrics sound very on-topic.

I think it's most likely that the censoring was done at the editing 
stage.  I'm not sure if a full-on uncut version is available.

-- 
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

------------------------------

Message-ID: <+49KM9EOOWEFFwrQ [at] ntlworld.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:51:42 +0100
From: Clive Mitchell <bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Close to home...
References: <list-35113112 [at] prxy.net> <list-35119095 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-35119095 [at] prxy.net>

In message <list-35119095 [at] prxy.net>, Jon Ares <jonares [at] hevanet.com> 
writes
>I had a similar incident happen to a student of mine 2 years ago - no 
>burns, but his grip did contract enough to prevent him from getting out 
>of dangers' way.  He was testing Altman Fresnels (of various ages) and 
>rating them on quality.  He plugged in one, and was jolted pretty 
>dramatically - I was only a few feet away, and he was screaming for 
>help, as he was unable to drop the fixture.  I was able to yank the 
>cord from the rack's convenience outlet, but the shock 'shook' him up 
>pretty badly. (And toasted his cell phone that was in his pocket.)
>
>The fault was in the fixture - short at the base - not any of the cabling.

And no earth continuity presumably.

Not sure how this would fry a mobile phone.

-- 
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

------------------------------

Message-ID: <3YgIUqF4SWEFFwo2 [at] ntlworld.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:56:40 +0100
From: Clive Mitchell <bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Close to home...
References: <list-35113112 [at] prxy.net> <list-35121982 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-35121982 [at] prxy.net>

In message <list-35121982 [at] prxy.net>, Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton [at] fuse.net> 
writes
>A few months ago, I somehow got my wire strippers onto a hot conductor, 
>(Still don't know how, I was stripping it to put on a male plug, and 
>never found the voltage or could duplicate the effect after the fact

Don't assume the wire was hot.  It may have been a source to ground and 
something else you were in contact with might have been live (Even the 
whole area!).

You guys just be glad you only have 110V to contend with.  240 is 
somewhat more forceful in these circumstances.

-- 
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

------------------------------

Message-ID: <roiP4+HzrWEFFwIl [at] ntlworld.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:23:15 +0100
From: Clive Mitchell <bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Close to home...
References: <list-35113112 [at] prxy.net> <list-35124876 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-35124876 [at] prxy.net>

In message <list-35124876 [at] prxy.net>, Steve Jones 
<steve.jones [at] glasgowplazatheatre.org> writes
>Some of the "mechanical" things I want to check on at the school 
>tomorrow are:
>
>1) Was the instrument grounded properly?

If it wasn't then that fact may have saved her life if she was holding 
the fitting.  That would have changed a shock across the hand to a shock 
across the chest.

>2) Is the connector in the circuit strip actually connected to a 
>ground?

See above.

>3) Is the voltage correct?

Irrelevant.

>4) Why didn't a breaker flip if she was "shorting" for up to 30 
>seconds?

Because it saw a load and it's pretty hard to pass enough current to 
trip a breaker.
>
>The soft things are:
>
>1) Who trains them on theatre safety / procedures?
>2) Where was the teacher?
>3) Why was she allowed to call her mom and not immediately sent in an 
>ambulance (as she finally was)?

Because they were probably scared due to the litigation culture of 
America.

>4) How often is maintenance / inspection performed on the theatre and 
>who does it?
>
>In doing some research and listening to folks from the list, the 
>"locked grip" at 110V seems possible - but the extent of her burns 
>seems much more severe than 110V would cause.

You don't have toasters And cookers running on 110v?

>
>
>Anything else you can suggest to check?

Sorry to sound mean, but I can understand your gut reaction for 
vengeance being the parent.  It's no good screaming and pointing 
fingers.  Your daughter was doing something that many kids would love to 
do...  Getting real hands on experience with theatrical equipment.  She 
did the wrong thing and knows it.  Why was she attempting to change a 
lamp with the power on?  Was she sent to change the lamp or did she 
decide to do it of her own accord.

EXACTLY the same thing could have happened in your house with a table 
lamp.

Don't start taking it out on the teachers or school.  All that will 
happen is you deprive other kids of a good experience in theatre.

And definitely don't contact a lawyer.  They exist purely for profit. 
Not justice in any way.

-- 
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

------------------------------

Message-ID: <LYuH0JGAWWEFFwv2 [at] ntlworld.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:00:00 +0100
From: Clive Mitchell <bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Close to home...
References: <list-35113112 [at] prxy.net> <list-35121982 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-35122985 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-35122985 [at] prxy.net>

In message <list-35122985 [at] prxy.net>, Richard Wright 
<rtwright [at] goldrushbc.com> writes
> Fortunately my buddy grabbed the line and snapped it like a whip, 
>pulling the pliers/cutters from my hand. I crawled out exhausted but 
>not burned.  I am only alive because as we later found out we were so 
>far from the barn and the receptacle that we had a lot of line loss.

Nope.  It was nothing to do with line loss.  Your lucky to be alive 
because there was sufficient resistance somewhere in the circuit.  Maybe 
it was cracked insulation on the cutters (if they were insulated) or 
maybe it was just skin resistance or the modest insulation of boots.

Those circumstances probably had a 95% risk of death associated with 
them.  So you are lucky to be alive.

-- 
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

------------------------------

Subject: RE: Sound board for a theatre
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:38:37 -0400
Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A06438227 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu>
In-Reply-To: <list-35149003 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>

> The list on the SERIES-TWO-24 is $5995. =20

Doh!  Man, was I off.  If I'd have been thinking, I'd have known that,
having shelled out about $6K for a SeriesTWO 32x8 a few years back...

Thanks for the correction! :)

------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.3.4.2.20060920093642.01d7c228 [at] pop.uci.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:39:31 -0700
From: Ron Cargile <rcargile [at] uci.edu>
Subject: Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan

The first time I was *ever* in Manhattan, I was driving a 24ft box 
truck, in the rain, at 4pm.
Had a pickup at JC Hansen.  That was quite the "welcome to 
NYC".  That was pre 9/11 so I didn't have as many restrictions as today.
Just remember that patience is a virtue, but it's still easier to 
drive a truck than a car on that island.  Folks are more apt to get 
out of the trucks way.

....Ron
----
Ron Cargile
ME, Univ of Calif, Irvine


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:56:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <C136EB0D.121AC%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-35151420 [at] prxy.net>

Speaking as someone that drives in the city on a very regular basis I just
gotta say...You're Kidding, right?  Cars get out of the way?  For trucks?
Not a chance.  Cars do not stop for anyone at any time.

But that's OK.  At least you know what you are up against.  I actually enjoy
driving in NY.  I know for a fact that if there's a tiny open spot in front
of me someone will fill it within 5 seconds.  I know for a fact that if
there is someone on the east side of 8th avenue trying to hail a cab that
said cab will come all the way from the west side (4 or 5 lanes over) of the
street to pick up said passenger.

You have to have guts and determination.  If you hesitate, they'll push you
into the Hudson River.  But if you stick to it and survive, it's a rewarding
experience.

And on a motorcycle it's even more fun.

Bill S.
ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
267.278.4561 mobile



On 9/20/06 12:39 PM, "Ron Cargile" <rcargile [at] uci.edu> wrote:

> The first time I was *ever* in Manhattan, I was driving a 24ft box
> truck, in the rain, at 4pm.
> Had a pickup at JC Hansen.  That was quite the "welcome to
> NYC".  That was pre 9/11 so I didn't have as many restrictions as today.
> Just remember that patience is a virtue, but it's still easier to
> drive a truck than a car on that island.  Folks are more apt to get
> out of the trucks way.



------------------------------

Reply-To: <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
From: "Peter Scheu" <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
Subject: RE: Driving a truck in Manhattan
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:06:02 -0400
Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
Message-ID: <002d01c6dcd7$0d768bb0$c9fea8c0 [at] ROXY>
In-reply-to: <list-35152044 [at] prxy.net>

Bill Sapsis wrote:

>if you hesitate, they'll push you into the Hudson River.=20

Like the definition of a "New York Minute": The amount of time between =
when
the light turns green and the cabbie behind you lays on his horn.

I actually drove a cab (actually a "livery service") in and out of =
Manhattan
during summers in college. You learn to perfect both defensive and =
offensive
driving skills very quickly.

Bill's right. It's a gas if you do it right.

Peter Scheu
=20
Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
Syracuse, NY
www.scheuconsulting.com


------------------------------

Subject: RE: Driving a truck in Manhattan
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:13:26 -0400
Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0643824A [at] exchange.rmwc.edu>
In-Reply-To: <list-35152044 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>

I've driven through NYC in both cars and box trucks, but the best
experience I ever had was the first time I ever rode in a cab there.
Took one from the Staten Island Ferry to MoMA while I had a free
afternoon on a touring stop.

As ludicrous as it sounds, I've never felt safer with anyone (who wasn't
a family member) driving than I did that day.  Perfect balance of
timing, defensive driving, and assertiveness (for lack of a better
word).

------------------------------

From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:13:19 GMT
Subject: Re: disabled
Message-Id: <20060920.101327.833.473265 [at] webmail34.lax.untd.com>

Just remember the "No Child Left Behind" means that the rest of the =

class gets deprived of much educational growth, does less challenging =

material, and has less hours of education dealing with more difficult =

material while they are waiting for one student to catch up, which =

creates a less educated electorate. We can do better than this. =

You can analogize this to some of the discussions in this thread.
/s/ Richard
_________________________
Jeffrey E. Salzberg <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com> writes
>> Pathetically
>> Childish.....
>
>Are you referring to those who are PC, or to those who have a =

desperate need to reaffirm themselves by affecting a hostile attitude =

at the mere thought that someone might expect them to accommodate the =

needs of those less fortunate than themselves?

I'm talking about the whimpering do-gooders who don't have a job that =

contributes in any worthwhile way to society, and take it upon =

themselves to make life difficult for all the honest hard working men =

and women of the world by relentlessly campaigning to make everything =

fit the lowest common denominator.

-- =

Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com
 


------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-35152044 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35152044 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <FAD08817-585B-4305-8280-5620046AF850 [at] rochester.rr.com>
From: Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:24:58 -0400

	The only time I drove into Manhattan was years ago when I was  
working as a photographer. I drove a van which was my personal  
vehicle, but since it had no back seats, and no side windows, NY DMV  
classified it as a commercial vehicle, so I had "Commercial" plates  
on it. I was ticketed, because apparently all commercial vehicles in  
NYC are required to have a sign on the side with the owner's name and  
phone number. Fine for a business I suppose, but my own name and home  
phone number??

	The cop wouldn't accept that it could possibly be a privately owned  
vehicle since it had commercial plates, nor would he believe that  
this sign law didn't exist outside of NYC.

	At one time I came out of the place I was shooting to add coins to  
the meter, and found someone's legs sticking out of my passenger door  
- someone was going through my glove box! (No cop in sight of  
course). I just asked the thief "Can I help you?" and he mumbled  
something about thinking it was his van and ran off. In typical  
retrospect, I wished I had just walked up and slammed the door closed  
on his legs!

	That was the first time - and also the LAST time I ever tried to  
drive into Manhattan.

Bruce
____________________
Bruce Purdy
Technical Director
Smith Opera House




------------------------------

From: MartySrq [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <c07.4cbfe78.3242d3b6 [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:26:14 EDT
Subject: Hello out there

Well good news and bad news. Now that I'm no longer at Van Wezel I can  write 
to the list again. As I'm now unemployed I have lots of time to do  that.
 
Marty

------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-35153116 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35153116 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <C0D3B7B7-B5C0-4709-863F-348175A1F21C [at] rochester.rr.com>
From: Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Hello out there
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:30:52 -0400


On 20 Sep 2006, at 13:26, MartySrq [at] aol.com wrote:

> Now that I'm no longer at Van Wezel I can  write
> to the list again.

????????

Why couldn't you write before?

Bruce
____________________
Bruce Purdy
Technical Director
Smith Opera House




------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <57b.548f944.3242db39 [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:58:17 EDT
Subject: Re: Close to home...

In a message dated 20/09/06 00:27:02 GMT Daylight Time, 
gregg [at] hillmardesign.com writes:

> AND, yes, 110 will cause ALL of the symptoms that you describe. For  
>  my M.E., the fact that his muscles contracted and he could not let go  
>  likely saved his life from the fall- even "roped" in.

You surprise me. I'm sure we have all done stupid things like this, though. I 
certainly have. I had a lantern not working, so I went out on the catwalks to 
check. I didn't like the look of the extension cable which fed it, so I 
pulled it out, opened it up, and put the wires back where they should have been, 
and plugged it in again. No joy, so I went to the other end of the cable. I 
liked that no more, so I unplugged the lantern and opened up the socket. When I 
took hold of that, I got 230V thumb to finger. I dropped it very quickly, and 
spoke a few profane words. Then I walked back to the plug, and pulled it out 
before completing the repair.

Physical damage, nil: ego damage, considerable.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <c20.4ccf08e.3242dc87 [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:03:51 EDT
Subject: Re: Close to home...

In a message dated 20/09/06 01:06:44 GMT Daylight Time, 
bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com writes:

> Unfortunately your daughter is not the first to get a shock trying to 
>  remove a broken lamp from a base.  Maybe it's just too obvious for 
>  people to even think of mentioning it.  Like trying to remove a plug 
>  that the cover just fell off.

Most modern Europen lanterns are so designed that accessing the lamp breaks 
the connections. Indeed, I think it has been mandatory for some years. But 
there are many old ones around.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <c17.506c533.3242de90 [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:12:32 EDT
Subject: Re: Close to home...

In a message dated 20/09/06 03:18:34 GMT Daylight Time, sford4 [at] aug.edu writes:

> About 15 years ago I was shocked by a 110 circuit when focusing an 
>  ungrounded light electrified when its wiring came loose.  I was stuck 
>  with one hand on a pipe and the other on the hot instrument, so the 
>  current went across my chest. As others have described, I screamed and 
>  shook, and my hair stood on end, though I don't recall any sparks 
>  appearing. I was wearing shorts and kneeling on a steel grate catwalk 
>  floor - if the current had travelled vertically through my torso I'd 
>  have risked organ damaged. I was only able to let go when the power was 
>  turned off. Afterward I was exhausted from the fright and physical 
>  stress, and all the muscles in my arms and across my chest were sore. 
>  Other than that, I was unharmed. 

Many years ago, a good friend of mine picked up an electric kettle, turned 
on, and went to add water. When he took hold of the tap, he got it, and locked 
on. Fortunately, he was a scientist, and managed to touch the kettle to the 
tap, which blew the fuse. Then he went to bed for the rest of the day.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: "Steve Jones" <steve.jones [at] glasgowplazatheatre.org>
Subject: RE: Close to home...
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:21:00 -0500
Message-ID: <000301c6dce1$867f9ba0$6601a8c0 [at] plazadirector>
In-Reply-To: <list-35151302 [at] prxy.net>

GEEZ people!  I am not seeking vengeance or suing the school or anything
like that!  I went to the school to find out what happened.  That was IT!  I
have repeatedly said the fault was HERS!

Nowhere did I say I wanted to point a finger.  I DID want to find out where
the supervisor(s) were and why they did what they did.  And I don't think
there's a damn thing wrong with that as EITHER a responsible parent or a
responsible theatre professional.

Two questions are asked in the below response.  Please tell me how I am
supposed to find those answers if I don't talk to that teacher, my daughter,
and others at the school?

Do people not actually READ what is posted here and just jump to their own
interpretation, no matter how twisted?

Aaarrgghhhh!


*************************************
Steve Jones, Director
Plaza Theatre
115 E. Main Street
Glasgow, KY  42141
Voice: (270) 361-2101
Fax: (270) 834-8147
http://www.glasgowplazatheatre.org 



Sorry to sound mean, but I can understand your gut reaction for vengeance
being the parent.  It's no good screaming and pointing fingers.  Your
daughter was doing something that many kids would love to do...  Getting
real hands on experience with theatrical equipment.  She did the wrong thing
and knows it.  Why was she attempting to change a lamp with the power on?
Was she sent to change the lamp or did she decide to do it of her own
accord.

EXACTLY the same thing could have happened in your house with a table lamp.

Don't start taking it out on the teachers or school.  All that will happen
is you deprive other kids of a good experience in theatre.

And definitely don't contact a lawyer.  They exist purely for profit. 
Not justice in any way.





------------------------------

Subject: RE: Driving a truck in Manhattan
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:45:34 -0400
Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A064382C2 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu>
In-Reply-To: <list-35153061 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>

> 	The only time I drove into Manhattan was years ago when=20
> I was working as a photographer. I drove a van which was my=20
> personal vehicle, but since it had no back seats, and no side=20
> windows, NY DMV classified it as a commercial vehicle, so I=20
> had "Commercial" plates on it. I was ticketed, because=20
> apparently all commercial vehicles in NYC are required to=20
> have a sign on the side with the owner's name and phone=20
> number. Fine for a business I suppose, but my own name and=20
> home phone number??
>=20
> 	The cop wouldn't accept that it could possibly be a=20
> privately owned vehicle since it had commercial plates, nor=20
> would he believe that this sign law didn't exist outside of NYC.

WTF??  That cop was, to put it mildly, and idiot.

At least up until '96 (when this particular vehicle of mine died), even
little baby pickup trucks had to have commercial plates in NYS.  And I
*know* I used to drive all the time in the "commercial vehicles
prohibited" lanes without issue.  And so did the umpteen gazillion other
pickup truck owners everywhere I went.  And none of us had our info
printed on the outside...

------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-35153116 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35153116 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <0028E190-A76F-4072-81E7-E2C043DE8F3B [at] aol.com>
From: KEITH ARSENAULT <iaeg [at] aol.com>
Subject: Re: Hello out there
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:19:57 -0400

indeed sorry to hear that you are no longer at "the purple people  
seater"

but glad to hear that you are back participating in this wonderful  
confab....



On Sep 20, 2006, at 1:26 PM, MartySrq [at] aol.com wrote:

Well good news and bad news. Now that I'm no longer at Van Wezel I  
can  write
to the list again. As I'm now unemployed I have lots of time to do   
that.

Marty

Keith L Arsenault
Tampa, Florida

813 831 3465  office
813 205 0893  cellular
iaeg [at] aol.com




------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-35155685 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35155685 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <F2768770-6E15-4FB8-8F55-814D8BA49FD3 [at] rochester.rr.com>
From: Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Close to home...
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:28:10 -0400

> GEEZ people!  I am not seeking vengeance or suing the school or  
> anything
> like that!  I went to the school to find out what happened.  That  
> was IT!  I
> have repeatedly said the fault was HERS!

	Your response was calm, rational, professional ant totally appropriate.

> Do people not actually READ what is posted here and just jump to  
> their own
> interpretation, no matter how twisted?

	No - from reading many threads here for some time now,  I can safely  
say that some do NOT really read the original post, or take the time  
to really pay attention to what is being asked or said. That having  
been said, your original post "Could" have been misinterpreted, if  
your followup posts had not been read.

Bruce
____________________
Bruce Purdy
Technical Director
Smith Opera House




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:34:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Close to home...
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <C1371010.121E6%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-35155685 [at] prxy.net>

We're supposed to read this stuff????  Gee whiz.  You should have told me
sooner.  <<VBG>>

I feel your pain Steve.



On 9/20/06 2:21 PM, "Steve Jones" <steve.jones [at] glasgowplazatheatre.org>
wrote:

> Do people not actually READ what is posted here and just jump to their own
> interpretation, no matter how twisted?



------------------------------

Message-Id: <s51160a5.075 [at] mail2.salisbury.edu>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:39:10 -0400
From: "Gerald George" <gdgeorge [at] salisbury.edu>
Subject: Re: Close to home...

<grin>  Well, some people read things closer than others...  And then
some read _after_ rehearsal.  

Anyway, FWIW, I didn't get that you were trying to nail somebody, but
rather were trying to avoid the same thing in the future.  I'd like to
think that I'd do the same thing, and with the same attitude.  Accidents
do happen, and the way to avoid them in the future is to address them at
the occurance.

Cheers,
Jerry


>>> steve.jones [at] glasgowplazatheatre.org 9/20/2006 2:21 PM >>>
For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see
<http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

GEEZ people!  I am not seeking vengeance or suing the school or
anything
like that!  I went to the school to find out what happened.  That was
IT!  I
have repeatedly said the fault was HERS!

Nowhere did I say I wanted to point a finger.  I DID want to find out
where
the supervisor(s) were and why they did what they did.  And I don't
think
there's a damn thing wrong with that as EITHER a responsible parent or
a
responsible theatre professional.

Two questions are asked in the below response.  Please tell me how I
am
supposed to find those answers if I don't talk to that teacher, my
daughter,
and others at the school?

Do people not actually READ what is posted here and just jump to their
own
interpretation, no matter how twisted?

Aaarrgghhhh!


*************************************
Steve Jones, Director
Plaza Theatre
115 E. Main Street
Glasgow, KY  42141
Voice: (270) 361-2101
Fax: (270) 834-8147
http://www.glasgowplazatheatre.org 



Sorry to sound mean, but I can understand your gut reaction for
vengeance
being the parent.  It's no good screaming and pointing fingers.  Your
daughter was doing something that many kids would love to do... 
Getting
real hands on experience with theatrical equipment.  She did the wrong
thing
and knows it.  Why was she attempting to change a lamp with the power
on?
Was she sent to change the lamp or did she decide to do it of her own
accord.

EXACTLY the same thing could have happened in your house with a table
lamp.

Don't start taking it out on the teachers or school.  All that will
happen
is you deprive other kids of a good experience in theatre.

And definitely don't contact a lawyer.  They exist purely for profit. 
Not justice in any way.





------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:42:53 -0500
From: Jeff Grams <jdgrams [at] saintmarys.edu>
Subject: Re: Close to home...
In-reply-to: <list-35155685 [at] prxy.net>
Message-id: <a06230901c1375722a9f2 [at] [147.53.65.165]>
References: <list-35155685 [at] prxy.net>

>GEEZ people!  I am not seeking vengeance or suing the school or anything
>like that!
>
>just jump to their own interpretation, no matter how twisted?
>
>Aaarrgghhhh!

Jumping and skipping along...

  Steve Jones High School

Has a nice ring to it. But what would the Mascot look like?

------------------------------

Subject: RE: Hello out there
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:48:30 -0400
Message-ID: <B3D6924DCCF99C45A449AA92E8184D615AE015 [at] mailserver.mtbethel.local>
From: "Alf Sauve" <Alf.Sauve [at] mtbethel.org>

And being from Sarasota, but pre-dating the purple cow, what happened?
Cutbacks?  =20

The only connection I have anymore is that my father is a member of the
Showfolks.  But he's not on the board or anything.  I understand the
Sailor Circus is moving, maybe they have the budget for a full time
staff member.=20

Alf
770 900 2920=20


-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of
MartySrq [at] aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 1:26 PM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Hello out there

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Well good news and bad news. Now that I'm no longer at Van Wezel I can
write to the list again. As I'm now unemployed I have lots of time to do
that.
=20
Marty

------------------------------

Message-Id: <200609202004.k8KK3v5m003804 [at] mailgate.sju.edu>
Reply-To: <rcarovil [at] sju.edu>
From: "Rob Carovillano" <rcarovil [at] sju.edu>
Subject: Color Coding Fixtures
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:03:55 -0400
Organization: Saint Joseph's University

I=92ve asked this before, but lost the answer and can=92t search the =
archives.

Is there a standard to use when color coding S4 barrels?

Rob Carovillano
Technical Director - Bluett Theatre
Saint Joseph's University
rcarovil [at] sju.edu
=A0



------------------------------

Subject: RE: Color Coding Fixtures
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:10:17 -0400
Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0643833B [at] exchange.rmwc.edu>
In-Reply-To: <list-35160304 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>
Cc: rcarovil [at] sju.edu

> Is there a standard to use when color coding S4 barrels?

Short answer...no.

Most helpful response...if you do any rental of equipment, find out if
the renters you usually deal with have a system in place.  If not, do
whatever makes the most sense to you and your in-house crew.  Otherwise,
streamline things and go with what those near you are doing to minimize
confusion.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:11:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <C137189C.121F5%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-35157244 [at] prxy.net>

It's true.  Commercial vehicles in NYC must have their name address and
phone number on the side of the cab.  And they have strict rules as to the
type of letters and size, etc.  magnetic signs are not permitted.  The rules
have been around for some time but they've been enforcing them more since
9/11.  And no, they do not care where you come from.  If you come into the
city you need the signage.

They have their reasons for this kind of stuff.  Think about the number of
trucks coming into NYC every day.  Now think about the big bull's eye that
NYC represents.  

Bill S.
ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
267.278.4561 mobile



On 9/20/06 2:45 PM, "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu> wrote:

>> The only time I drove into Manhattan was years ago when
>> I was working as a photographer. I drove a van which was my
>> personal vehicle, but since it had no back seats, and no side
>> windows, NY DMV classified it as a commercial vehicle, so I
>> had "Commercial" plates on it. I was ticketed, because
>> apparently all commercial vehicles in NYC are required to
>> have a sign on the side with the owner's name and phone
>> number. Fine for a business I suppose, but my own name and
>> home phone number??
>> 
>> The cop wouldn't accept that it could possibly be a
>> privately owned vehicle since it had commercial plates, nor
>> would he believe that this sign law didn't exist outside of NYC.



------------------------------

Message-ID: <3998154b0609201403g1d4e3c0apd100a1f03380f306 [at] mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:03:35 -0700
From: "Paul Puppo" <ppuppo [at] gmail.com>
Cc: rcarovil [at] sju.edu
Subject: Re: Color Coding Fixtures
In-Reply-To: <list-35160304 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35160304 [at] prxy.net>

I'd recommend against using blue AND green.  They are hard to tell
apart in the dark, 20' over your head...

In a theatre where I work they use paint pens and write the degrees on
the barrels.  26* (degrees) in red (or whatever), saves visitors and
occasional workers always having to ask "Are 26's red or green?"  It
might help color blind folks too.

Then for the rep plot placement (no, I don't want to open that thread
again), they have mailing address stickers with all the information on
them, circuit, channel, etc., and the type of instrument printed in
the color of the barrel marking, placed on the battens.


Paul Puppo
ILLUMINEERING
http://www.Nifty-Gadgets.com



On 9/20/06, Rob Carovillano <rcarovil [at] sju.edu> wrote:

> Is there a standard to use when color coding S4 barrels?

------------------------------

Message-ID: <4511B498.6020607 [at] sbcglobal.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:37:28 -0500
From: Kenneth Zinkl <kzinkl [at] sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Color Coding Fixtures
References: <list-35160304 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-35160304 [at] prxy.net>

One place I worked colored the tubes with the same color as ETC uses to 
ID the lenses. I think the color code can be found in the owners manual 
or on ETCs web site.

Ken Zinkl

Rob Carovillano wrote:

>For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>I’ve asked this before, but lost the answer and can’t search the archives.
>
>Is there a standard to use when color coding S4 barrels?
>
>Rob Carovillano
>Technical Director - Bluett Theatre
>Saint Joseph's University
>rcarovil [at] sju.edu
> 
>
>
>
>  
>

------------------------------

Message-ID: <4511B6E9.3010806 [at] gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:47:21 -0400
From: Brian James <brianedwardjames [at] gmail.com>
Reply-To:  brianedwardjames [at] gmail.com
Subject: Re: Sound board for a theatre
References: <list-35145515 [at] prxy.net> <list-35145963 [at] prxy.net> <list-35146358 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-35146358 [at] prxy.net>

Check out the Allen and Heath GL series
http://www.glseries.com/

We have one that has been a work horse for us..............
Bill Nelson wrote:
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> What would be a good mixer for a theatre that produces mostly plays but
> occasionally has dance performances? An occasional play will have live
> music. We sometimes have musicals where the director insists on miking the
> singers, even though this is only a 300 seat house with good acoustics.
> For a play coming up this next spring, there will be at least 16 wireless
> mikes.
>
> The budget, as usual for community theatre, is very tight - so top of the
> line equipment is out of the question. An analog board is acceptable.
>
> Bill
>
>
>   


------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <362.c554b51.3243137c [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:58:20 EDT
Subject: Re: Close to home...

In a message dated 20/09/06 20:02:34 GMT Daylight Time, 
steve.jones [at] glasgowplazatheatre.org writes:

> Do people not actually READ what is posted here and just jump to their own
>  interpretation, no matter how twisted?

Personally, yes. And I agree with your daughter. She did something stupid, 
and it bit her. She knows that, and as she grows older, she will learn to be 
more careful of her own well-being.

For those who think that you plan to sue, I have much contempt. That you 
should want to check that there was no equipment fault is reasonable, particularly 
as you know about these things. But how far back do you go?

I have met equipment which, due to faulty design, has caused two riggers to 
come down 18' ladders rather quicker than they wanted to. Neither came by any 
harm, but the lanterns were badly designed from the electrical safety point of 
view, by modern standards. By modern standards. When they were designed, they 
were perfectly acceptable.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

Message-ID: <011701c6dd00$91fc7e20$0300a8c0 [at] ALFOFFICE>
Reply-To: "Alf Sauve" <alf.sauve [at] mindspring.com>
From: "Alf Sauve" <alf.sauve [at] mindspring.com>
References: <list-35160304 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: Color Coding Fixtures
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:55:46 -0400

I color coded extension cords (multi outlet cords) for orchestra lights with 
this scheme.  Something similar might be adaptable to lights.

Red - Stop Short  (a short cord)
Green - Go Long ( a long cord)
Yellow - Caution neither long nor short

So,

Red is a short/narrow angle - 19
Green is a long/wide angle - 36
Yellow is in-between - 26

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Carovillano" <rcarovil [at] sju.edu>
To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:03 PM
Subject: Color Coding Fixtures


For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

I've asked this before, but lost the answer and can't search the archives.

Is there a standard to use when color coding S4 barrels?

Rob Carovillano
Technical Director - Bluett Theatre
Saint Joseph's University
rcarovil [at] sju.edu






------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 00:31:10 +0100 (BST)
From: Charlie Richmond <charlier [at] RichmondSoundDesign.com>
Subject: Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan
In-Reply-To: <list-35153061 [at] prxy.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0609210030180.18602 [at] viscount.richmondsounddesign.com>
References: <list-35152044 [at] prxy.net> <list-35153061 [at] prxy.net>

On Wed, 20 Sep 2006, Bruce Purdy wrote:

> 	That was the first time - and also the LAST time I ever tried to 
> drive into Manhattan.

I've never been brave enough to even try it once!

Charlie

------------------------------

Message-ID: <84c790f30609201714y4b2c9155j7483f3608d200a93 [at] mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:14:39 -0400
From: "Shawn King" <skingld [at] gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Driving a truck in Manhattan
In-Reply-To: <list-35064658 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-35064658 [at] prxy.net>

I didn't see anyone else post it, but commercial traffic is not
allowed on the parkways in NY or NJ, so steer clear of those.

And in my experience, aim for the yellow taxis; believe it or not,
they will move out of the way of a box truck.  They don't move out of
the way in my Turbo Volvo though...

On 9/18/06, Stephen Lee <mouse [at] fieldmousepro.com> wrote:

> For those of you privy to the quirks of Manhattan regulations, a question:
> I'll be driving a 16' straight-truck from Philly to the Chelsea Piers
> area.  Where are the "no go" areas for box trucks?
> So far, I've got:
>
> - West Side Hwy
> - FDR drive
> - All of the tunnels
> - Some of the bridges (I think)...
>
> Anything I missed?

------------------------------

Message-ID: <4511E96F.1010702 [at] cybercom.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 21:22:55 -0400
From: Dale farmer <dale [at] cybercom.net>
Subject: Re: Close to home...
References: <list-35142927 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-35142927 [at] prxy.net>

Paul Schreiner wrote:
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> First things first...good to hear she's okay.  Also good to hear that
> she understood where she went wrong and 'fessed up.
> 
> But it is another reason to push manufacturers to follow Selecon's lead
> and install microswitches that cut mains power to the socket when the
> lamp base is removed...
> 
> 
> 
   Nice idea.  I wish Selecon had implemented it a little better.  Those 
damn switches account for a lot of 'bad' bulbs being changed in them. 
The switches move around a bit and then don't close reliably.

   --Dale



------------------------------

From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <514.77e1bdf.3243443c [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 21:26:20 EDT
Subject: Re: Close to home - followup

, steve.jones writes:
>Keep in mind that this is probably some  general maintenance guy who has no
>experience with any kind of "bulb"  other than a standard screw in or a
>fluorescent tube.  I don't think  it was a licensed electrician.
 
I worked at a college once upon a time where the campus "licensed"  
electrician 
informed me that the only way to get the "bulbs" out of the auditorium  stage 
lights was to pry out the retaining ring first.
 
He had no clue about the design and function of medium prefocus  lamps.
 
Steve Vanciel
Orlando, FL
 

------------------------------

Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20060920184217.022ad250 [at] earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:43:44 -0700
From: Theatre Safety Programs <theatresafe [at] jgorrell.com>
Subject: Station Club Fire -- update

This story was just posted:

Pleas From Owners of Club in Deadly Fire

The Station nightclub owners, Michael, left, and Jeffrey Derderian, 
right, are seen during a hearing at the Superior Court in Providence, 
R.I., in this Oct. CHITOSE SUZUKIBy ERIC TUCKER (Associated Press Writer)
 From Associated Press
September 20, 2006 8:03 PM EDT
PROVIDENCE, R.I. - The owners of a nightclub where a 2003 fire killed 
100 people will plead no contest to involuntary manslaughter charges, 
and only one will have to serve prison time, their lawyer said 
Wednesday. Victims' relatives were outraged.

Kathleen Hagerty said brothers Jeffrey and Michael Derderian will 
enter the pleas more than 3 1/2 years after pyrotechnics ignited foam 
soundproofing as a 1980s heavy metal band started playing at The 
Station nightclub.

Hagerty confirmed that Michael Derderian will serve 4 years in a 
minimum security prison, with eligibility for a work release program, 
and that Jeffrey Derderian will receive a suspended 10-year sentence.

Relatives of those killed were furious about what they considered to 
be light punishments for the brothers' role in the fourth-deadliest 
fire in U.S. history, a tragedy that touched untold thousands of 
people in the nation's smallest state.

"I can't believe the attorney general is just going to stand by and 
say OK to this," said Diane Mattera, whose 29-year-old daughter, 
Tammy Mattera-Housa, died in the fire.

Hagerty confirmed the pleas after WJAR-TV and The Providence Journal 
reported on a letter Attorney General Patrick Lynch wrote to families 
of those killed to announce the plea deal. A spokesman for Lynch did 
not immediately return phone messages seeking comment; media reported 
that Lynch was making calls to family members Wednesday night.

Lynch says in the letter that he objects to the sentences that 
Superior Court Judge Francis Darigan has said he will give the Derderians.

"Most significantly, I strongly disagree with the Court's intention 
to sentence Jeffrey Derderian to less than jail," he wrote. He added, 
however, that the plea deals mean the brothers are accepting criminal 
responsibility "despite months of denials."

The Derderians will change their pleas on Sept. 29 and could be 
sentenced that day, according to the letter.

Many relatives of victims, including Robert Bruyere, whose 
stepdaughter, Bonnie Hamelin, died in the fire, said they learned 
about the plea from news reports.

Lynch "better hope I don't see him in person, because I'll be in 
jail," Bruyere said in a telephone interview as his wife, Claire, 
sobbed in the background.

The plea comes as jury selection was under way for Michael 
Derderian's criminal trial; his brother's trial was to have followed.

"All I can say is that Jeffrey and Michael Derderian are looking to 
put a resolution to this and to avoid any further pain to any of the 
victims' families or survivors of the tragedy," Hagerty said.

She said Michael Derderian is to receive a tougher sentence than his 
brother because he is the one who bought the foam.

The fire on Feb. 20, 2003, at the West Warwick nightclub began when 
pyrotechnics used by the band Great White ignited flammable 
soundproofing foam placed around the stage.

The flames quickly spread to foam that lined the walls and ceiling, 
enveloping the one-story wooden building in moments and trapping 
concertgoers. A guitarist for the band was among those killed, and 
more than 200 people were injured.

Images and sounds of people scrambling to get out as dark smoke 
spread through the club were broadcast around the world. The footage 
was taken by a television cameraman at the club for a story on safety 
in public places being reported by Jeffrey Derderian, who then worked 
for a Providence TV station.

In May, former Great White tour manager Daniel Biechele was sentenced 
to four years in prison for igniting the pyrotechnics without the 
required permit. He pleaded guilty in February to 100 counts of 
involuntary manslaughter.

The Derderians have each pleaded not guilty to 200 counts of 
involuntary manslaughter - two counts for each person killed under 
separate legal theories. A count of involuntary manslaughter in Rhode 
Island carries up to 30 years in prison.

Hagerty said her clients will plead no contest to charges stemming 
from a legal theory that accuses them of committing a misdemeanor - 
installing flammable foam in violation of the state fire code - that 
led to the victims' deaths.

Aside from the prison time, Michael Derderian will receive an 11-year 
suspended sentence and three years' probation, while Jeffrey 
Derderian will get three years' probation and 500 hours of community 
service along with his suspended sentence, Hagerty said.

Prosecutors say the Derderians showed a pattern of poor management 
and dangerous decisions, including installing the highly flammable 
polyurethane foam in violation of the state fire code and allowing 
bands to use pyrotechnics as part of their acts. They also say the 
Derderians did several things that made it harder to evacuate the club.

The Derderians have said the band never had permission for the 
pyrotechnics, but band members contend they did. The brothers' 
lawyers have also said they were never told the foam violated the fire code.

The Derderians and dozens of other defendants have been sued in 
federal court by fire survivors and relatives of those killed. The 
brothers, who have filed for bankruptcy, also have been fined $1.07 
million for failing to carry the required workers' compensation 
insurance - a penalty they are appealing.

Many victims' family members have angrily criticized how Lynch, who 
is running for re-election in November, has handled the case.

Chris Fontaine, whose son, Mark, died in the fire, said she was 
particularly upset because she and other victims' relatives learned 
of the deal from reporters. She said the same thing happened when 
Biechele's plea deal was announced, but Lynch had assured her that 
would not happen again.

"It's unconscionable," Fontaine said. "There's been absolutely no 
thought or consideration for the people that have been left behind, 
and there are a lot of us."

Jerry Gorrell



------------------------------

From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <37a.5bfd0780.324352f6 [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:29:10 EDT
Subject: Re: Close to home - followup

steve.jones writes:
>There was one 1/4" wire that was left exposed inside the base - but  it
>was sticking straight up from one post and not touching the walls of  the
>base - so no completed circuit.
and 
>As she squeezed the  base, ....  
>As she did, the sides of the base came in contact with the 1/4" wire 
>that was still live, causing the circuit to complete.  
and
>This would be consistent with the burn marks location on  her
>hand.  In addition to electrical flow, I am sure the base itself  heated up
>and added to the burn as she was "attached" between 15-30  seconds.
 
Steve,
 
Your follow-up report is excellent.  Thank you for providing the  details.
 
However, in your comments I snipped above, I think you have drawn an  
incorrect conclusion.
It would not be necessary for the base to contact the wire piece and if it  
had there would have been an arc flash (hot to ground) that might have tripped  
the breaker.
 
Rather, her hand provided the circuit path between the hot lead and  ground.  
Wet skin can have a resistance on the order of 1000 Ohms.   Applying Ohms 
Law: 120V / 1000 Ohms = 120 mA of current flowing.  While  that may not sound 
like very much it is sufficient to cause extreme pain, severe  muscular 
contractions, and respiratory arrest.  Death is possible.
 
The duration of the exposure likely lead to the burns.  Current  flowing 
through a resistance creates heat.  The heating (and initial skin  damage) would 
lead to decreasing resistance and hence an increase in current  flow which 
would increase the heating effects.  Vicious cycle but never  reaching sufficient 
current flow to trip a 20A breaker (typical on dimmer  circuits).
 
Even if she was touching other metal components, the path through her hand  
between the base and the wire would have been the path of least resistance and  
as such, most of the current would flow in that path.
 
Since the entry and exit points would have been very close together, it is  
possible that the current might not have affected the rest of her body.   But 
by all means, don't take a chance.  Have her completed checked by a  medical 
professional WHO HAS EXPERIENCE with electrical shock  injury.   Often the 
internal damage is not obvious and can later lead  to serious consequences.
 
A coworker was bitten last year by a power cord to an amp rack he was  
testing.  It did not seem like much at the time.  He went to the  emergency room 
(company policy) and they said he was fine.  But, for days  he was feeling weak 
and had stomach pains.  He returned to the ER several  times and each time they 
said it was nothing.  Until the time he was there  and a doctor "happened" by 
who had experience with electrical injuries.  He  immediately recognized the 
problem and put my friend into surgery to repair  intestinal bleeding. It is a 
miracle that he did not die from blood loss  earlier.
 
Steve Vanciel
Orlando, FL
 
P.S.  For a fuller explanation of electrical hazards and shock, I  would 
invite all to attend the Electrical Power class several of us are  presenting at 
LDI next month.  Also, refer to NFPA 70E and OSHA 29 CFR  1910.

------------------------------

Message-ID: <20060921025024.34030.qmail [at] web32408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 19:50:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeffrey Cebula <jmcebula [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Color Coding Fixtures
In-Reply-To: <list-35164015 [at] prxy.net>

 > One place I worked colored the tubes with the same
> color as ETC uses to ID the lenses <


I'm pretty sure it's 

19: Red
26:Blue
36: White
50: Yellow

but I could be wrong.

Also, the place where I used to work put the color
markings under the gel clip on the front of the
barrel.  Never understood how that was useful once the
instrument was in the air...

...at least I couldn't see the color from 20 feet
below the unit.

Jeff

Jeffrey M. Cebula
Scenic and Lighting Design
610-620-4125
jeffreymcebula.com



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------------------------------

End of Stagecraft Digest #957
*****************************