Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 35431110; Tue, 26 Sep 2006 03:03:14 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS,SARE_ADULT2 autolearn=no version=3.1.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.5 (2006-08-29) on localhost X-Spam-Level: X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #963 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 03:01:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #963 1. Re: Jay O. Glerum LDI rigging Seminar by Stephen Rees 2. Re: Jaxan substitute? by Stephen Rees 3. Re: Faux Tires [Was: Jaxan substitute?] by "Alf Sauve" 4. Re: October and our heritage. by Rigger 5. Re: Jaxan substitute? by "Tyler Smith" 6. Re: Jaxan substitute? by "Jon Ares" 7. Re: Jaxan substitute? by "Jon Ares" 8. Re: Jaxan substitute? by Rigger 9. Re: Teacher Curriculum by "Paul Guncheon" 10. mini mag re-fit by b Ricie 11. Re: Close to home... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 12. Re: Close to home... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 13. Re: Faux Tires [Was: Jaxan substitute?] by "Phil Blackwood" 14. Re: Cue lights/ mini-mag re fit by "Paul Puppo" 15. Re: Close to home... by jonares [at] hevanet.com 16. Re: Close to home... by "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" 17. FEL lamps available for trade by Mike Voytko 18. rigging from the grid... by "Jason Cowperthwaite" 19. Re: Close to home... by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 20. Re: Close to home... by "Occy" 21. Re: mini mag re-fit by "Occy" 22. OT "Hey! Watch this!!" was Close to home... by 23. Re: Close to home... by "Occy" 24. Re: Jaxan substitute? by "Occy" 25. Re: rigging from the grid... by "Paul Schreiner" 26. Re: rigging from the grid... by Christopher Haas CEHAAS 27. Re: rigging from the grid... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 28. Re: rigging from the grid... by "Jason Cowperthwaite" 29. Re: rigging from the grid... by "Jason Cowperthwaite" 30. Re: rigging from the grid... by "Jason Cowperthwaite" 31. Re: rigging from the grid... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 32. Re: rigging from the grid... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 33. Re: Close to home... by Clive Mitchell 34. Re: Close to home... by CB 35. Re: rigging from the grid... by "Brian Munroe" 36. Re: rigging from the grid... by Stephen Litterst 37. Just totally gay dude! by Clive Mitchell 38. Re: rigging from the grid... by Rigger 39. Re: rigging from the grid... by "Paul Schreiner" 40. Re: rigging from the grid... by "Paul Schreiner" 41. Re: rigging from the grid... by Rigger 42. Re: rigging from the grid... by "Occy" 43. Re: rigging from the grid... by "Jason Cowperthwaite" 44. Re: rigging from the grid... by "Occy" 45. Re: rigging from the grid... by "Occy" 46. Re: rigging from the grid... by "Occy" 47. pine-sol by "Occy" 48. Re: Close to home... by "Bill Nelson" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:26:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Jay O. Glerum LDI rigging Seminar From: Stephen Rees Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Dear God, was it that long ago! Was a great set of sessions. Especially liked the materials testing lab on campus. Most informative along with everything else. Steve On 9/24/06 12:47 AM, "Rick Malone" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I attended the first USITT Rigging Master Class at > Duke in 91 with Jay, Dr. Doom and other notables. It > has helped me more than any other like class. > > Highly Recommended. > > Rick Malone > in San Antonio ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:33:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Jaxan substitute? From: Stephen Rees Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Behr makes a texture paint that performs about like Jaxson. It is in the Home Despot paint section. It is a tad pricey. Steve Rees On 9/24/06 1:32 PM, "Jon Ares" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Howdy all... > > I'm looking for something to coat foam (but cheaper than Fome-Coat) - and no > one around here carries Jaxan 600, and I don't want to pay freight for a > 5-gallon bucket. Does someone know of something else that is available at a > Home Despot or bLowes? I haven't done an exhaustive search at those places, > but I've only found roof-type coatings and they are solvent-based ones. What > else could I use, or what should I look for? I'd like to find something > locally.... > > - Jon Ares > www.hevanet.com/acreative > ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Faux Tires [Was: Jaxan substitute?] Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 08:50:54 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Alf Sauve" =20 Uh, why, out of curiosity? Why not use real tires? Where they oversized? Undersized? Easier to paint? (some color other than black) Seems faux tires might not be as forgiving if someone steps on them. Alf -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Phil Blackwood Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 9:54 PM I did some foam tires for _Good News_ once. As I put on the elastomeric, I also stretched bias-cut muslin around them. I was very pleased with the result, as they were usded in the show for "agility drills" at football practice. They didn't get trashed at all. ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:03:51 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: October and our heritage. At 12:15 AM -0400 9/25/06, RICHARD FINKELSTEIN wrote: >OCTOBER 2006 Marks the...... > >137th Anniversary of the birth of Henri Matisse >52nd Anniversary of the death of Henri Matisse Uh, no.... Matisse was born on Dec. 31st and died on Nov. 3rd. (that said, i've also gotta say that richard's lists were one of the things i missed most while i was away.) -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net Since 1983, more than 30 people have been killed in Post Offices. Ya wanna know why? Because the price of postage keeps changing. ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Jaxan substitute? Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:08:09 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Tyler Smith" Hi Jon, Depending on how tough you would like this to be I have a few ideas for you... Tough - White Glue and Cheese cloth - Time consuming and messy but easy to contain. The cheese cloth takes time to apply, this is a great way to keep a few hundred students occupied for a few days. Medium Tough - White Glue and Joint Compound. Can be applied with a hopper gun ($70 thru grainger) very fast and very messy. Add sawdust for extra texture if needed. Give yourself 24 hours for dry time. Mix for a Frosty like consistency. Not walkable, but strong enough to be moved around. Bill Sapsis Tough - Sprayable concrete - Can be applied with a hopper gun to foam, shaped aluminum window screen and other meshy surfaces. Build yourself a spray room for coating each piece, you don't want to try to do this in place. Makes foam surfaces walkable and VERY durable. Do a google for spraycrete or grancrete.=20 The sprayable concrete is kind of expensive, but if you need a walkable organic surface it's the way to go. I did a few medium coats over a few days to get a nice tough surface. For light weight / low durability I second the elastomeric roof coating suggestion, stuff works great. Tyler Smith Technical Director Studio Arena Theatre ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001301c6e0ac$4e2c9860$0400000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Jaxan substitute? Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 07:10:07 -0700 > Benjamin Moore carries an elastomeric in brush-grade, and in knife > grade. Home depot here in Tucson has elastomeric, can't remember the > brand. I guess depending on the part of the country you are in it may > be less common. I'm keeping my eyes open for the elastomerics, but all the ones I find are solvent-based. I'll keep looking.... - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001701c6e0ac$8ab82b00$0400000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Jaxan substitute? Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 07:11:49 -0700 > How strong does it have to be? Would one of the drywall fillers or wall > patching materials work? It's not so much for strength (though I don't want it to chip or flake) - it's mostly for flame retardancy, to hide the expanded poly bead look, and for a certain amount of ding resistance. (And as a good paint surface, unlike raw styro.) - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:16:43 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Jaxan substitute? At 10:08 AM -0400 9/25/06, Tyler Smith wrote: >Tough - White Glue and Cheese cloth > >Medium Tough - White Glue and Joint Compound > >Bill Sapsis Tough - Jell-O pudding. (g,d,r&l) -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net I don't really think we gave barbarism a fair try. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003201c6e0c3$9e92e770$0202a8c0 [at] HUNKACRAP> From: "Paul Guncheon" References: Subject: Re: Teacher Curriculum Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:56:59 -1000 Forwarded on behalf of MJ: On the subject of Teacher Curriculum, I just have to weigh in. Here at Kaimuki High school we have a Learning Center for the performing Arts. In Hawaii there are 4 high schools with this in place. As a teacher I get to teach 6 out of 7 classes, five of which are theatre. Technical theatre (2 sections) Beginning acting Advanced acting Dance (4 levels in one period) and just so I don't get bored, the principal gives me a career and life guidance class. ( I used to get the wood shop class as well) My training BA, MFA, are in technical theatre and design, and my certification is in fine arts. The learning Center gets an allocation from the state that allows me to hire some of the part time teachers. This is so I can hire professionals to teach the acting and dance classes, and I supervise them. Along with the teaching load goes all the designing, building (along side my students) teching all the shows for our program, and a lot of the other shows for the school. Coordinator for our new academy that's integrating music, video, graphics, theatre and art. And various and numerous meetings. The biggest kicker is the building management part of the job that isn't in the job description. Which means I have to be chief babysitter and bottle washer for all the rentals that happen in the hall, on top of building maintenance issues. I don't have to clean the place, we do have an excellent custodian who takes care of that. ( today is a body building show, and it's Sunday). If didn't take on the house management stuff, the renters would be given free reign on the space with no supervision. The custodian on duty would literally open the door and leave. Would not turn on the lights, show them what they could or could not do, answer any questions, or monitor the renters for safety violations. At end of the show he would come in and clean up and leave. You wouldn't believe some of the horror stories I heard of, or seen some of the huge messes I found on stage and in the dressing rooms the next day. I had a hard time convincing the admin that their liability was in serious danger. Finally after one renter had a fire dance on stage, the admin allowe d me to make arrangements to be the house manager for the shows outside of the rental contract. There is not a job description for house manager so the DOE won't recognize what I do here. I am the unofficial technical director for 50' pro, 690 seat, full fly system house. As an workload it could be a lot worse, I could be teaching 6 period of English. (pity the poor child if this were the case) Teachers in every discipline are underpaid, and under appreciated. Its a good thing we love (most of us) teaching. MJ ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060925165740.46943.qmail [at] web50612.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:57:40 -0700 (PDT) From: b Ricie Subject: mini mag re-fit In-Reply-To: >> OK, thanks to the recommendations like this one on the list, I finally bought the retro-fit kit at Lowes yesterday. (I'm keeping the original parts just in case). The LED part is good and bright - I don't know if I'll get used to the inability to focus it, but I'll give it a fair try.<< KEEP the end cap. My experience was the button cap only lasted a short while. It took a lil while to get used to no focus, but I think the ability to just turn the light on won out. No need to turn the light on and then focus it, just on and off. One less step is one less step. While we are talking flash lights....I just bought a no name thing for 4 bucks. It has 9 LED's and runs off 3 AAA batteries. So far it has worked fine, I call it my lil bundle of daylight. If I can find any more about it I will pass the info along. (Hello...my name is Brian...and I am addicted to flashlights...my last purchase was last week yet I keep looking...) Brian Rice 508-685-0716 b_ricie [at] yahoo.com "Blessed are the cracked: For it is they who let in the light." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <335.1533a980.32496c90 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:32:00 EDT Subject: Re: Close to home... In a message dated 25/09/06 00:23:29 GMT Daylight Time, bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com writes: > I understand the value of this, but I have to say I'm not wild about > it. It overly complicates what is essentially a simple design. So > long as basic common sense procedures are followed (Unplug the unit > before opening it) all this would do is introduce something else (the > switch) that could potentially malfunction. > > Any such attempts to "Idiot-proof" the design leads to more > careless workers down the line! It also seems to me like part of the > "Carpet the world" philosophy we've been discussing on another thread. While I agree with you in general about "idiot-proofing", if it can be done without undue difficulty it is worth it. Two examples come to mind. The old Revox tape recorders disconnected the power when the chassis was lifted from the case, using a two-part plug. One range of Strand lanterns took its power through a high-temperature IEC connector. Unless this was removed, it was not possible to open the lamp tray, as it obstructed the hinge. High voltage equipment has to be comprehensively interlocked, and is often surrounded by complicated procedures. Permits to work, locking open the isolators, complicated switches which need special keys to close them, and so on. The keys can only be removed when the circuit is dead, and the same key unlocks the doors of the equipment cabinet. All of these are commonplace, and it seems a good idea to extend the principle down the line as far as is reasonably practicable. Apart from the electrical hazard, the interior of a stage lantern can get very hot. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <365.f445560.32496db2 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:36:50 EDT Subject: Re: Close to home... In a message dated 25/09/06 05:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, billn [at] peak.org writes: > You will also find that some people will bypass the lockout switches, > especially when one fails. This is criminally stupid. All I hope is that the guy who does it gets bitten or burned themselves. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <9cbafac70609251041s638c5f1by8b4935360a130ac8 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:41:32 -0700 From: "Phil Blackwood" Subject: Re: Faux Tires [Was: Jaxan substitute?] In-Reply-To: References: > Uh, why, out of curiosity? Why not use real tires? Where they > oversized? Undersized? Easier to paint? (some color other than black) > Seems faux tires might not be as forgiving if someone steps on them. > They were supposed to be Model T tires, so oversized by today's standards. Real tires also tend to be heavy (and dirty), and these had to be brought onstage quickly by the actors. Phillip Blackwood Technical Director School of Theater Arts University of Arizona (520)621-1104 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3998154b0609251153v5cff2c8bo7f55175c0715407 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:53:43 -0700 From: "Paul Puppo" Cc: jon [at] lagerquist.com Subject: Re: Cue lights/ mini-mag re fit In-Reply-To: References:

I found the Kroll tail cap, because of Andy's review, at The Sandwich Shoppe, I think the name refers to the "sandwich" of parts to make a custom flashlight. He's got other cool stuff... Paul Puppo ILLUMINEERING http://www.Nifty-Gadgets.com On 9/24/06, Jon Lagerquist wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > If I remember correctly this kit has "RAM" tail cap which is not know > for it's robustnes. A "Kroll " tail cap has a better reputation but > is hard to find unless you take one off a Streamlight Luxen Jr. But > then you already have the Luxen Jr so why are you ... > > Most of the holsters I have which are designed for a tail cap switch > light have a small ring at the bottom that prevents the switch from > being activated.A piece of PVC would do the job. > > > The tail cap is interesting, I'll reserve judgement on that as well. I > > was concerned that it might be a bit larger in diameter and prevent the > > flashlight from fitting into my holster - but that doesn't appear to be > > he case. The holster does have a closed bottom > > > Jon Lagerquist > Technical Director [at] South Coast Repertory > Costa Mesa, CA > > ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200609251944.k8PJiin01750 [at] broadway.hevanet.com> From: jonares [at] hevanet.com Subject: Re: Close to home... Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:44:44 GMT > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 25/09/06 05:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, billn [at] peak.org writes: > > > You will also find that some people will bypass the lockout switches, > > especially when one fails. > > This is criminally stupid. All I hope is that the guy who does it gets bitten > or burned themselves. Next someone will tell me people take the guards of table saws, and wire up the safetys on their nailers/staplers. Oh, and stand on that "This is not a step" step on ladders. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001501c6e0dd$6d4aca10$6401a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" References: Subject: Re: Close to home... Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 14:01:44 -0600 Ahhh, that safty crap is fer stoopid peeple. Yoos jus gotta pay tention and no un gets hert. Roburt :-) > > In a message dated 25/09/06 05:19:47 GMT Daylight Time, billn [at] peak.org > writes: > > > > > You will also find that some people will bypass the lockout switches, > > > especially when one fails. > > > > This is criminally stupid. All I hope is that the guy who does it gets > bitten > > or burned themselves. > > > Next someone will tell me people take the guards of table saws, and wire > up the safetys on their nailers/staplers. Oh, and stand on that "This > is not a step" step on ladders. > > - Jon Ares > www.hevanet.com/acreative > > ------------------------------ Message-Id: <399ab3bf9b702926a5ede076285a6111 [at] nyu.edu> From: Mike Voytko Subject: FEL lamps available for trade Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:01:12 -0400 I have a stock of (24) new FEL 1000w lamps, in sealed cartons. If anyone is interested in a trade, please contact me off-list. Thanks, Mike V. -- Mike Voytko Lighting & Sound Supervisor TSOA Theatrical Production New York University ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3eb8da960609251305l65a1e0b5y86a007af6999aab8 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:05:27 -0400 From: "Jason Cowperthwaite" Subject: rigging from the grid... Quick question for the list... this one *should* be easy. We need to rig a light ladder in an area of the stage that pipes dont reach. What are the best ways to go about rigging from the gridiron? So you know, the grid is made of C channel steel, 60' from deck to bottom of grid, The ladder is about 40ish lbs, and will be hanging 4 Source 4's plus cable. My thought was wrapping proof chain around the steel and shackling a couple of aircraft cable picks down to the ladder. The TD was unsure about this because of questions of how much wrapping the chain would reduce its Safe working limit. Thanks for your help in advance! Jason Cowperthwaite ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Close to home... Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:06:12 -0400 Message-ID: <003301c6e0de$122d5480$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > Ahhh, that safty crap is fer stoopid peeple. > Yoos jus gotta pay tention and no un gets hert. The most common last words in America: "Hey! Watch this!!" ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: Close to home... Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:13:51 -0700 Yep! Replaced 3 during light check, 2 during focus. The 1 that failed at 1 hour before got jumped A: we ran out replacement switches B: it was a key light C: we will never have to worry about that stupid switch again during this tour D: tour over all back in the shop never got fixed E: next tour some other electrician was thanking you as s/he knew it was only a lamp that died and didn't have to take a roll away tool box with up to the truss fix the no light out put problem up to the truss 60 in the air. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Nelson" > --------------------------------------------------- > > You will also find that some people will bypass the lockout switches, > especially when one fails. > > Bill > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References: Subject: Re: mini mag re-fit Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:19:05 -0700 Yeah what can I say I bought one they claim that the space shuttle can just yesterday, so I can into the grids, but it is rechargeable!! Hi my name is .... ----- Original Message ----- From: "b Ricie" > --------------------------------------------------- > > > (Hello...my name is Brian...and I am addicted to > flashlights...my last purchase was last week yet I > keep looking...) > > > > Brian Rice > 508-685-0716 > b_ricie [at] yahoo.com > "Blessed are the cracked: For it is they who let in the > light." > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20060925202235.48685.qmail [at] web82803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:22:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: OT "Hey! Watch this!!" was Close to home... Cc: stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com In-Reply-To: Some good "Hey! Watch this! stories can be found at http://www.cartalk.com/content/features/watchthis/letters.html --- "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" wrote: > The most common last words in America: > > "Hey! Watch this!!" ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References: Subject: Re: Close to home... Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:28:10 -0700 Yup it is but if they put another stupid label on the instrument that says: For use by professionally trained professionals only. Sorry high school, college and other students but some idiots before your time screwed up some things and now things this way instead of the simple way like it used to be done. ----- Original Message ----- From: > --------------------------------------------------- > > > This is criminally stupid. All I hope is that the guy who does it gets > bitten > or burned themselves. > > Frank Wood > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References: Subject: Re: Jaxan substitute? Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:37:27 -0700 Ya yes shotcrete never tried it for theatre scenic use, but in theme parks its every where you look. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Smith" --------------------------------------------------- Hi Jon, Depending on how tough you would like this to be I have a few ideas for you... Tough - White Glue and Cheese cloth - Time consuming and messy but easy to contain. The cheese cloth takes time to apply, this is a great way to keep a few hundred students occupied for a few days. Medium Tough - White Glue and Joint Compound. Can be applied with a hopper gun ($70 thru grainger) very fast and very messy. Add sawdust for extra texture if needed. Give yourself 24 hours for dry time. Mix for a Frosty like consistency. Not walkable, but strong enough to be moved around. Bill Sapsis Tough - Sprayable concrete - Can be applied with a hopper gun to foam, shaped aluminum window screen and other meshy surfaces. Build yourself a spray room for coating each piece, you don't want to try to do this in place. Makes foam surfaces walkable and VERY durable. Do a google for spraycrete or grancrete. The sprayable concrete is kind of expensive, but if you need a walkable organic surface it's the way to go. I did a few medium coats over a few days to get a nice tough surface. For light weight / low durability I second the elastomeric roof coating suggestion, stuff works great. Tyler Smith Technical Director Studio Arena Theatre ------------------------------ Subject: RE: rigging from the grid... Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:41:10 -0400 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A064F0B7A [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> In-Reply-To: From: "Paul Schreiner" > My thought was wrapping proof chain around the steel and=20 > shackling a couple of aircraft cable picks down to the=20 > ladder. The TD was unsure about this because of questions of=20 > how much wrapping the chain would reduce its Safe working limit. Don't wanna go side-loading the chain links. Go with roundslings instead. Remember that you'll need at least four lines, so that you can keep the ladder from tilting too much outta whack once you load the instruments on it. Something rigid'd be better, for that reason alone. But hanging via slings (rather than chain) should work, though there'll be some futzing come focus time! ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... Message-ID: From: Christopher Haas CEHAAS Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:04:46 -0400 If your TD is worried about wrapping the chain around the grid, drag a couple pieces of 1-1/2 sched 40 up there, span across the gaps between the C-channel and wrap the chain around the pipe. Keeps the chain around a round object and should eliminate concerns. HTH Chip Haas Technical Director Department of Theatre The University of North Carolina at Greensboro 336-334-3891 ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:55:47 EDT Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... In a message dated 25/09/06 21:06:16 GMT Daylight Time, jasonclights [at] gmail.com writes: > My thought was wrapping proof chain around the steel and shackling a > couple of aircraft cable picks down to the ladder. The TD was unsure > about this because of questions of how much wrapping the chain would > reduce its Safe working limit. I have to agree with your TD. Wrapping chain stresses it in a way for which it is not rated. Depending on the exact way it comes out in the wrap, individual links may be subject to bending or crushing stresses. I believe that there are many fittings designed for this purpose, including those designed for suspending the main bars. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3eb8da960609251457pacfcd27y1a28c3794c1be96 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:57:03 -0400 From: "Jason Cowperthwaite" Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... In-Reply-To: References:

Are you talking Gakflex (sp?) slings or aircraft cable? thought aircraft cable around a corner like that was a nono? And four points... 2 sets of points at a V? Thanks! Jason On 9/25/06, Paul Schreiner wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > My thought was wrapping proof chain around the steel and > > shackling a couple of aircraft cable picks down to the > > ladder. The TD was unsure about this because of questions of > > how much wrapping the chain would reduce its Safe working limit. > > Don't wanna go side-loading the chain links. Go with roundslings > instead. Remember that you'll need at least four lines, so that you can > keep the ladder from tilting too much outta whack once you load the > instruments on it. > > Something rigid'd be better, for that reason alone. But hanging via > slings (rather than chain) should work, though there'll be some futzing > come focus time! > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3eb8da960609251458y1be89e45o6179741ea41bd83d [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:58:20 -0400 From: "Jason Cowperthwaite" Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... In-Reply-To: References:

would there be any issue w/ the pipe somehow being knocked sideways and falling through the grid while focusing? Or does the weight of the rig keep it pretty stationary? Thanks! jason On 9/25/06, Christopher Haas CEHAAS wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > If your TD is worried about wrapping the chain around the grid, drag a > couple pieces of 1-1/2 sched 40 up there, span across the gaps between the > C-channel and wrap the chain around the pipe. Keeps the chain around a > round object and should eliminate concerns. > > HTH > > Chip Haas > Technical Director > Department of Theatre > The University of North Carolina at Greensboro > > 336-334-3891 > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3eb8da960609251502x37e64328j1103596dc5b410f0 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:02:57 -0400 From: "Jason Cowperthwaite" Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... In-Reply-To: References: I too had concerns, Just didnt know the math to decide whether they are theoretical or real concerns. we thought of using loft blocks too, but if it doesnt need to move, other than to take it to trim, we wanted to avoid having to run it all the way across stage to the pin rail. So it sounds like chain is definitely out though.. Thanks! jason On 9/25/06, FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 25/09/06 21:06:16 GMT Daylight Time, > jasonclights [at] gmail.com writes: > > > My thought was wrapping proof chain around the steel and shackling a > > couple of aircraft cable picks down to the ladder. The TD was unsure > > about this because of questions of how much wrapping the chain would > > reduce its Safe working limit. > > I have to agree with your TD. Wrapping chain stresses it in a way for which > it is not rated. Depending on the exact way it comes out in the wrap, > individual links may be subject to bending or crushing stresses. > > I believe that there are many fittings designed for this purpose, including > those designed for suspending the main bars. > > > Frank Wood > ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:07:55 EDT Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... In a message dated 25/09/06 22:59:12 GMT Daylight Time, jasonclights [at] gmail.com writes: > would there be any issue w/ the pipe somehow being knocked sideways > and falling through the grid while focusing? Or does the weight of > the rig keep it pretty stationary? There are clamps for this purpose. Failing that, an old-fashioned rope lashing , properly executed, is pretty secure. Back in the twenties and thirties, my father and his Scouts used to build quite tall and substantial wooden towers using no other fastenings. I have doen this myself to locate scaffold poles, not to take the loads, of course, and it has worked well. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <2e3.d90a6fd.3249ae0c [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:11:24 EDT Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... In a message dated 25/09/06 23:03:29 GMT Daylight Time, jasonclights [at] gmail.com writes: > I too had concerns, Just didnt know the math to decide whether they > are theoretical or real concerns. > > we thought of using loft blocks too, but if it doesnt need to move, > other than to take it to trim, we wanted to avoid having to run it all > the way across stage to the pin rail. Just use cable clamps to form an eye round the sheave. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <7Lh7AeF0TFGFFwoe [at] ntlworld.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:15:16 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: Close to home... References: In-Reply-To: In message , FrankWood95 [at] aol.com writes >> You will also find that some people will bypass the lockout switches, >> especially when one fails. > >This is criminally stupid. All I hope is that the guy who does it gets >bitten or burned themselves. If an accident does occur then the person who bypassed the switch will find themselves in very deep shit. Even if it wasn't a significant contribution to the accident, the very principle of bypassing a safety device gets health and safety officialdom very excited indeed. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20060925154030.00bbb248 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 15:40:30 From: CB Subject: Re: Close to home... >I just saw an article that says Santa Clara County (were I live and >work) SHOOT! I just left Barefoot Coffee Roasters, I wish I had done that math in my head before I rolled in. Ah well, stop by anyways, they're buying coffees for everyone and anyone for the time being... OTOH, the practice of having janitors be the technical people for the school theatre is as sensible as having the old guys at the school crossings near the elementary schools in the bedroom communities be the security folk at the highschool in the 'bad' part of town. Sure, they're both safety related, but it's a whole different skillset. It might be better not to have anyone do it in some cases. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:05:14 -0400 From: "Brian Munroe" Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... In-Reply-To: References:

> Are you talking Gakflex (sp?) slings or aircraft cable? thought > aircraft cable around a corner like that was a nono? > > > And four points... 2 sets of points at a V? Gacflex (G_alvanized A_ircraft C_able) is fine. Nylon spansets are probably not OK because of the melting temp of the sling in a fire. A steel stinger basket is also ok if around a large enough grid pipe. I would use 1/4" AC cable as a dead hang with a "soft eye" at the top. This is a loop large enough to fit comfortably over a 3" grid pipe and swaged or cable clipped back to itself. One piece of cable, no extra steel, spansets, chain, shackles, etc needed. Pull the soft eye up and stick a grid pipe thru it, running perpendicular to the channels, then lash the grid pipe to the channels/wells with sash cord. Or you can run the cable over a loft block and secure it to the channel irons or junior beams with a turnbuckle at the grid end. Makes for easy trimming from the grid. Still has the problem of what to use to attach the end at the grid. I admit I often use chain wrapped around the beam or well. 2 Points with a V work if one leg of the V is adjustable to plumb the ladder. 3 Points also work (2 on, 1 off at Center of the ladder, or similar). IF wrapping chain around objects is a no-no, and wrapping cable around objects is a no-no, what is the preferred method for attaching things that need to grab beams/channels/etc. And how about trim chain on pipe? Or Load chain on flatbed trucks? Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <451874A7.2090801 [at] gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:30:31 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Organization: University of Delaware Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... References:

In-Reply-To: Jason Cowperthwaite wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > would there be any issue w/ the pipe somehow being knocked sideways > and falling through the grid while focusing? Or does the weight of > the rig keep it pretty stationary? The pipe will need ears of some sort to lock it in place on the grid, and safeties to keep it from falling to the deck during rigging/strike. Steve L. -- Stephen Litterst Technical Operations Supervisor litterst [at] udel.edu Center for the Arts 302/831-0601 University of Delaware ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 02:50:42 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Just totally gay dude! To quote:- JERRY SPRINGER THE OPERA, SUNG BY ALISON JIEAR, THIS CLIP WAS PUT TOGETHER TO HAVE ON A SCREEN BEHIND HER AT GAY PRIDE... THIS SONG IS HUGE IN THE GAY CLUBS. And here it is..... If you like your musicals then click the bottom right hand icon in the video for a larger version and turn up the volume. It gains tempo as it goes on. Caution! It does contain the "F" word but in the nicest possible sense. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q32_G215bb0 And yes, it is huge in the gay clubs. It's a fantastic video. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:53:21 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... At 5:58 PM -0400 9/25/06, Jason Cowperthwaite wrote: >would there be any issue w/ the pipe somehow being knocked sideways >and falling through the grid while focusing? Not if you take some strong tieline up with you and mouse the pipes off to the grid. -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net "Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he machine-gunned the survivors ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:56:49 -0400 From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... In-Reply-To: References:

> Are you talking Gakflex (sp?) slings or aircraft cable? thought > aircraft cable around a corner like that was a nono? Aircraft cable or chain around a hard corner is, IMO, a no-no. Chain around a pipe whose radius is about as long as a chain link is...reasonable. See trim chain. But something strikes me as wrong about this, and I can't quite put my finger on it at 11:00 at night. If you're thinking AC, then go with something beefy and round off those corners on the steel, even if it's just with a bit of 2x2 or something to fill in the gap in the channel/angle iron. FWIW, I was thinking something along the lines of a Tuflex roundsling choked off on the grid. > And four points... 2 sets of points at a V? I was figuring two verticals to support the ladder legs plus two others coming off the front close to the bottom of the ladder; I expect that the lens barrel side of the ladder will be heavier than the back end, so you'd want to be able to tension those (w/ forged turnbuckles) to keep them plumb. Theoretically one would work, but if you have any sort of uneven weight distribution, your ladder will want to twist with only 3 support lines. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 22:59:16 -0400 From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... In-Reply-To: References:

> Not if you take some strong tieline up with you and mouse the pipes > off to the grid. One of my work-study students (with whom I'm sharing some fairly quality time onstage--yes!--in our fall production) is nicknamed Mouse. Rumor has it that when I mention "mousing" shackles and the like that it has something to do with her... ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:11:25 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... At 10:59 PM -0400 9/25/06, Paul Schreiner wrote: >> Not if you take some strong tieline up with you and mouse the pipes >> off to the grid. > > One of my work-study students (with whom I'm sharing some fairly > quality time onstage--yes!--in our fall production) is nicknamed > Mouse. Rumor has it that when I mention "mousing" shackles and the > like that it has something to do with her... Wouldn't that be "shackling mouse," and not "mousing a shackle?" (walking away, whistling) -DVick ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:40:35 -0700 Or a few nails depending how old the place is ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rigger" > --------------------------------------------------- > > At 5:58 PM -0400 9/25/06, Jason Cowperthwaite wrote: > > >would there be any issue w/ the pipe somehow being knocked sideways > >and falling through the grid while focusing? > > > Not if you take some strong tieline up with you and mouse the pipes > off to the grid. > > -- > Dave Vick > rigger [at] tds.net > > "Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he machine-gunned the survivors > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3eb8da960609252044t350f126fr9578b215502afbda [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:44:29 -0400 From: "Jason Cowperthwaite" Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... In-Reply-To: References:

I would like to thank everyone for the ideas. I think the situation has been clarified to the point where I feel much safer actually executing this need. You all get gold stars for the day! ;) Best, Jason On 9/25/06, Paul Schreiner wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > Are you talking Gakflex (sp?) slings or aircraft cable? thought > > aircraft cable around a corner like that was a nono? > > Aircraft cable or chain around a hard corner is, IMO, a no-no. > > Chain around a pipe whose radius is about as long as a chain link > is...reasonable. See trim chain. But something strikes me as wrong > about this, and I can't quite put my finger on it at 11:00 at night. > > If you're thinking AC, then go with something beefy and round off > those corners on the steel, even if it's just with a bit of 2x2 or > something to fill in the gap in the channel/angle iron. > > FWIW, I was thinking something along the lines of a Tuflex roundsling > choked off on the grid. > > > And four points... 2 sets of points at a V? > > I was figuring two verticals to support the ladder legs plus two > others coming off the front close to the bottom of the ladder; I > expect that the lens barrel side of the ladder will be heavier than > the back end, so you'd want to be able to tension those (w/ forged > turnbuckles) to keep them plumb. Theoretically one would work, but if > you have any sort of uneven weight distribution, your ladder will want > to twist with only 3 support lines. > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:59:44 -0700 For what they are hanging some #10 jack chain will work, just don't forget your tire chain pliers for the field fit. For what it amounts too, since they have the blocks, its only take 4 blocks for the ladder or 6 depending on cable needs and its all done 30 mins of work ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Schreiner" > --------------------------------------------------- > Aircraft cable or chain around a hard corner is, IMO, a no-no. > > Chain around a pipe whose radius is about as long as a chain link > is...reasonable. See trim chain. But something strikes me as wrong > about this, and I can't quite put my finger on it at 11:00 at night. > > If you're thinking AC, then go with something beefy and round off > those corners on the steel, even if it's just with a bit of 2x2 or > something to fill in the gap in the channel/angle iron. > > FWIW, I was thinking something along the lines of a Tuflex roundsling > choked off on the grid. > > > I was figuring two verticals to support the ladder legs plus two > others coming off the front close to the bottom of the ladder; I > expect that the lens barrel side of the ladder will be heavier than > the back end, so you'd want to be able to tension those (w/ forged > turnbuckles) to keep them plumb. Theoretically one would work, but if > you have any sort of uneven weight distribution, your ladder will want > to twist with only 3 support lines. > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:30:45 -0700 Since we are talking about rigging, ladders and electrics. This a good one for a permanent install, the wording was right but wrong equipment for the wording. http://ecmweb.com/nec/whats_wrong_092506/ One of the reason why I am not taking the ETCP test for electricians, being reared in the SW of the USA. AS the film, TV, theater and theme park, capital of the world and the grandfather of them all too. We have terms for everything over here. I did a shoot with one gaffer an old timer too that would call the same piece of equipment during the same scene 3 different names, One DP while holding some thing called it 4 different names not even realizing it what he was doing at the time while my crew was chuckling, and yes we where all IA too. And I can go on but not going to, waste the bandwidth. ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:48:48 -0700 Ok I pushed it I don't think SW USA is theater capital of the USA, But go to any the PAC around here and they are according to them or is that Jim? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Occy" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:30 PM Subject: Re: rigging from the grid... > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Since we are talking about rigging, ladders and electrics. This a good one > for a permanent install, the wording was right but wrong equipment for the > wording. > > http://ecmweb.com/nec/whats_wrong_092506/ > > > > One of the reason why I am not taking the ETCP test for electricians, > being > reared in the SW of the USA. AS the film, TV, theater and theme park, > capital of the world and the grandfather of them all too. We have terms > for > everything over here. I did a shoot with one gaffer an old timer too that > would call the same piece of equipment during the same scene 3 different > names, One DP while holding some thing called it 4 different names not > even > realizing it what he was doing at the time while my crew was chuckling, > and > yes we where all IA too. And I can go on but not going to, waste the > bandwidth. > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" Subject: pine-sol Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:33:13 -0700 Who ever said that soaking old paint brushes in Pine-Sol to clean them after they are as hard as a rock, Believe them, as they were right. I had a few rock hard ones one paint brush was new worth $3 the other was $11. I was going to throw them in the dumpster. So for $2 I would try it it worked! Even broke down the high gloss latex one the brushes had it. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1235.205.215.253.191.1159257460.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 00:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Close to home... From: "Bill Nelson" >>> You will also find that some people will bypass the lockout switches, >>> especially when one fails. >> >>This is criminally stupid. All I hope is that the guy who does it gets >>bitten or burned themselves. I would not hope/wish that on anyone, even the idiot do bypassed the safeties. But I hope that people will never trust interlocks - and unplug the instrument before working on it. Microswitches can, and do, fail closed. > If an accident does occur then the person who bypassed the switch will > find themselves in very deep shit. Even if it wasn't a significant > contribution to the accident, the very principle of bypassing a safety > device gets health and safety officialdom very excited indeed. I agree, but it will happen. It is human nature, especially when the person is on a tight budget, in a rush, or has a failure just before a performance and no spare parts are available. Bill ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #963 *****************************