Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 35619389; Sat, 30 Sep 2006 03:00:53 -0700 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,EMPTY_MESSAGE, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS autolearn=no version=3.1.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.5 (2006-08-29) on localhost X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #967 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 03:00:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #967 1. Re: TTI Dimmer issue.. by "Bill Nelson" 2. Re: Outdoor Sound Systems by Sunil Rajan 3. Re: TTI Dimmer issue.. by Clive Mitchell 4. Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears by "Lon Butcher" 5. Re: TTI Dimmer issue.. by "Bill Nelson" 6. Re: The quest for safe snow by Bob Frame 7. Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears by "Bill Nelson" 8. Re: The quest for safe snow by "LES LIND" 9. Re: The quest for safe snow by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 10. Re: The quest for safe snow by Pat Kight 11. Re: TTI Dimmer issue.. by "Nigel Worsley" 12. Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears by "Delbert Hall" 13. Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears by "Bill Nelson" 14. Re: The quest for safe snow by jonares [at] hevanet.com 15. Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears by "Delbert Hall" 16. Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears by "Occy" 17. Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears by Stephen Rees 18. Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears by "Delbert Hall" 19. Re: Outdoor Sound Systems by "Gregg Carville" 20. Re: The quest for safe snow by "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" 21. Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears by "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" 22. Rental drape aggrement by Bill Schaffell 23. Re: The quest for safe snow by "Jonathan Zitelman" 24. Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears by "Occy" 25. Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears by "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" 26. Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears by "Bill Nelson" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <1424.208.51.52.56.1159531127.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 04:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: TTI Dimmer issue.. From: "Bill Nelson" > At 01:27 PM 9/28/2006, Clive Mitchell wrote: >According to the USITT standard it's possible to have a MTBF (Mark >Time Between Frames) of up to one second. That means if you sent a >packet of 512 frames with a full one second MTBF then it could >theoretically take over eight minutes to send a single packet of >data and still be compliant with the standard. Hm. I must be misremembering the standard. I though a frame consisted of up to 512 segments, one for each DMX channel configured. If that is the case, then 1 second MTBF would mean that an update would be sent to the dimmers roughly once/second - not once every 8 minutes. Bill ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <675A873A-4FBF-11DB-BB31-000A95BD64AC [at] earthlink.net> From: Sunil Rajan Subject: Re: Outdoor Sound Systems Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:35:42 -0400 On Sep 29, 2006, at 6:01 AM, Stagecraft wrote: > From: "Gregg Carville" > Cc: THEATRE-SOUND [at] listserv.aol.com (Discussion list for people working > in sound for live theatre.) > Subject: Outdoor Sound Systems > > I am working with my department in maintaining a football stadium. > Currently they have Peavey Impulse 200 Speakers in a 70v set-up. > > The speakers are dying a slow death. I am looking into replacements. > Currently I am not particularly impressed with these speakers. > > Anyone want to reccommend speakers to look at. They will be outside > 24/7 365 and we do live in Maine, so lots of bad weather. > Problem #1: Peavey speakers Problem #2: 70v system Is this a distributed system for dressing rooms/lobby paging? Or are these the main PA for the venue?! I would steer away from many of the Renkus-Heinz all-weather models. They're waterproof, windproof, weather proof, and guess what? SOUND proof! ick. IMHO, I dig the Technomad series of speakers. They're basically Military grade speakers (remember their cool demo video, showing them being thrown into a creek, being shot at with a shotgun, flamethrowered, etc.?). Unfortunately, they also sound pretty mediocre. I spec'd them for an outdoor show I did a few years back, and never had an issue with them in 90% humidity, blistering heat, and a few torrential downpours. Granted, they DId take a fair amount of eq to make them sound decent, but for sheer bulletproofness (is that a word?), they rocked. No idea how they would fair in Maine though, especially with snow/ice and such, but the cabinets themselves are mil-spec. Good luck! Sunil Rajan Freelance Audio Mercenary currently: Production Sound, On Golden Pond national tour ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:32:26 +0100 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: TTI Dimmer issue.. References:

In-Reply-To: In message , Bill Nelson writes >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >> At 01:27 PM 9/28/2006, Clive Mitchell wrote: >>According to the USITT standard it's possible to have a MTBF (Mark >>Time Between Frames) of up to one second. That means if you sent a >>packet of 512 frames with a full one second MTBF then it could >>theoretically take over eight minutes to send a single packet of >>data and still be compliant with the standard. > >Hm. I must be misremembering the standard. I though a frame consisted of >up to 512 segments, one for each DMX channel configured. > >If that is the case, then 1 second MTBF would mean that an update would be >sent to the dimmers roughly once/second - not once every 8 minutes. > 512 data frames in a packet? (Excluding the start code.) http://www.dmx512-online.com/packt.html -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:40:07 -0700 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Lon Butcher" >Subject: RE: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears >Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:05:12 -0700 >How about making that CNC file available to the list, Loren? >Randy Storms >rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu _________________________________ >>The design and cutting of the Rabbit Ear cam is what makes the=3D20=20 >>device more complex. But now that I have a CNC router, I can = knock=3D20=20 >>out the cam by the dozens.=3D20 ------------------------------ >Mabe we should build the steel version of the rabbit ears and compare the >three devices? Let's talk. >-Delbert > Maybe a brief article for Sightlines comparing the two is in order. > What do y'all think? I'll second, third... or fourth the motion for more info about the rabbit ears. Like Randy, I have access to a CNC. Along with the testing of Plywood vs. Steel, how would an Aluminum version fare? Lon Butcher Performance Technician College of Fine and Performing Arts Western Washington University (360) 650-7926 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <2687.208.51.52.56.1159548718.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:51:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: TTI Dimmer issue.. From: "Bill Nelson" > 512 data frames in a packet? (Excluding the start code.) Yeah. I was remembering the "up to 1 second" allowed between packets. Thanks for pointing it out. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <2FDDC3C2F5B5F4499C096779EF5493B902CE4B0D [at] exchange-nt.cayuga-cc.edu> From: Bob Frame Subject: Re: The quest for safe snow Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:00:42 -0400 When I "snow" on my stage I use a "shifting gutter system". Fairly easy/cheap to construct. I've used confetti and plastic snow for different f/x. The beauty of this unit is that it rigs to one pipe or could be dead hung if you have a way to access the gutter to refill it. The snow falls in about a 2' deep pattern when dropped from an 17' trim. Obviously air currents will vary that dispersion. I've had light flurries to practically blizzard conditions. Contact me off list if you want instructions (or if enough people desire I will post to the list) Operation is as simple as pulling a single Rope- even my 10 year old daughter could do it. Bob Robert M. Frame, Coordinator of Theatre Operations Cayuga Community College 197 Franklin St. Auburn, NY 13021-3099 (Voice): 315-255-1743 ext. 2340 (Fax): 315-255-2117 (E-mail): Framer [at] Cayuga-cc.edu If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague. -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of = Jonathan Zitelman Subject: The quest for safe snow been trying to think up a shifting gutter system, kind of like a sift, filled with iridescent confetti or possibly expanded polystyrene beads ------------------------------ Message-ID: <2691.208.51.52.56.1159549006.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 09:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears From: "Bill Nelson" > Along with the testing of Plywood vs. Steel, how would an Aluminum > version fare? An aluminum version should be somewhere between plywood and steel in just about all areas. I think steel might be overdoing it a bit - and would be rather heavy unless using hollow tubing for the "ears". Bill ------------------------------ Message-Id: <451D1BB202000029000013E0 [at] mailhost.nesd.k12.pa.us> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:12:18 -0400 From: "LES LIND" Subject: Re: The quest for safe snow References: In-Reply-To: Post it please. Les Lind Northeastern High School Manchester, PA >>> Bob Frame 9/29/06 1:00:42 PM >>> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- When I "snow" on my stage I use a "shifting gutter system". Fairly=20 easy/cheap to construct. I've used confetti and plastic snow for different f/x. The beauty of this unit is that it rigs to one pipe or could be dead hung if you have a way to access the gutter to refill=20 it. The snow falls in about a 2' deep pattern when dropped from an 17'=20 trim. Obviously air currents will vary that dispersion. I've had=20 light flurries to practically blizzard conditions. Contact me off list=20 if you want instructions (or if enough people desire I will post to the list)=20 Operation is as simple as pulling a single Rope- even my 10 year old=20 daughter could do it. Bob Robert M. Frame, Coordinator of Theatre Operations Cayuga Community College 197 Franklin St. Auburn, NY 13021-3099 (Voice): 315-255-1743 ext. 2340 (Fax): 315-255-2117 (E-mail): Framer [at] Cayuga-cc.edu =20 If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague. -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of =3D Jonathan Zitelman Subject: The quest for safe snow been trying to think up a shifting gutter system, kind of like a sift, filled with iridescent confetti or possibly expanded polystyrene beads ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:23:34 GMT Subject: Re: The quest for safe snow Message-Id: <20060929.102414.18186.578985 [at] webmail36.lax.untd.com> Please post it. /s/ Richard _______________________________ Post it please. Les Lind Northeastern High School Manchester, PA (or if enough people desire I will post to the list) = Operation is as simple as pulling a single Rope- even my 10 year old = daughter could do it. Bob ------------------------------ Message-ID: <451D58FC.7050906 [at] peak.org> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:33:48 -0700 From: Pat Kight Subject: Re: The quest for safe snow References: In-Reply-To: Thirded. I'm looking to build a simple mechanical snow device outside a single window on an interior set, and this sounds like a promising variation on the old snow cradle theme. I'm considering building it into the window unit and caging the whole thing in with window screen so the snow will be contained and fall into a removable drawer. Seems like that would make it easier to cleanup and re-use, since there's no need in this case for snow all over the stage. -- Pat Kight kightp [at] peak.org ladesigners [at] juno.com wrote: > Please post it. > /s/ Richard > _______________________________ > > Post it please. > > Les Lind > Northeastern High School > Manchester, PA > > (or if enough people desire I will post to the > list) > Operation is as simple as pulling a single Rope- even my 10 year old > daughter could do it. > > Bob > > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <009c01c6e3ef$62087c50$0e00a8c0 [at] Nogle> From: "Nigel Worsley" References:

Subject: Re: TTI Dimmer issue.. Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:47:46 +0100 Bill Nelson wrote: >> At 01:27 PM 9/28/2006, Clive Mitchell wrote: >>According to the USITT standard it's possible to have a MTBF (Mark >>Time Between Frames) of up to one second. That means if you sent a >>packet of 512 frames with a full one second MTBF then it could >>theoretically take over eight minutes to send a single packet of >>data and still be compliant with the standard. > > Hm. I must be misremembering the standard. I though a frame consisted of > up to 512 segments, one for each DMX channel configured. Terminology problems. The DMX standard ( well, the latest version I have anyway ) doesn't refer to frames nor segments. It uses the term packet, which is composed of 512 slots ( preceded by a break and the start code, of course ).. The 'Mark between slots' requirement is indeed one second or less, but I would consider any equipment that came anywhere near this figure to be seriously faulty. Nigel Worsley ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 13:54:41 -0400 From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears In-Reply-To: References:

The steel version of the rabbit ears are actually a completly different design than the wooden ones. I would not have even called them "rabbit ears" because they do not have "ears" at all. They use other means to hold the rope, which cannot exceed 5/8" in dia. (they are intended to be used with synthetic ropes). The big advantages I see with the steel rabbit ears is that they are more compact that the plywood rabbit ears, and they hold up better to the abuses of touring. I am really overwhelmed with work right now, but as soon as I get I chance, I will draw them up and send the design to someone with a good steel shop and the time to build a few for testing. -Delbert On 9/29/06, Bill Nelson wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > Along with the testing of Plywood vs. Steel, how would an Aluminum > > version fare? > > An aluminum version should be somewhere between plywood and steel in just > about all areas. > > I think steel might be overdoing it a bit - and would be rather heavy > unless using hollow tubing for the "ears". > > Bill > > -- Delbert L. Hall ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre 423-773-4255 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <2825.208.51.52.56.1159553198.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears From: "Bill Nelson" > The steel version of the rabbit ears are actually a completly > different design than the wooden ones. I would not have even called > them "rabbit ears" because they do not have "ears" at all. They use > other means to hold the rope, which cannot exceed 5/8" in dia. I assume they are on the order of the cam cleats that are used in sailing. They are available in all sorts of materials. There is even a version that allows a person to release heavily loaded lines under complete control. One version is called a "trigger cleat". Bill ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200609291819.k8TIJk208085 [at] broadway.hevanet.com> From: jonares [at] hevanet.com Subject: Re: The quest for safe snow Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 18:19:46 GMT > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Post it please. > > Les Lind I too would like to see/know more about the gutter system. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:39:03 -0400 From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears In-Reply-To: References:

Correct Bill. After going through the cam cleat the rope is tied off to a deck cleat on the top of the device. -Delbert On 9/29/06, Bill Nelson wrote: > I assume they are on the order of the cam cleats that are used in sailing. > They are available in all sorts of materials. > > There is even a version that allows a person to release heavily loaded > lines under complete control. One version is called a "trigger cleat". > > Bill > > -- Delbert L. Hall ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre 423-773-4255 ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 12:21:00 -0700 Aluminum student proof, steel people proof? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Nelson" > --------------------------------------------------- > An aluminum version should be somewhere between plywood and steel in just > about all areas. > > I think steel might be overdoing it a bit - and would be rather heavy > unless using hollow tubing for the "ears". > > Bill > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:10:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears From: Stephen Rees Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I have used Harken cam cleats for managing and tensioning lines on the stage deck for horizontal use but not for vertical applications. Would there be concerns about the line slipping out sideways in that circumstance? Steve Rees On 9/29/06 2:06 PM, "Bill Nelson" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >> The steel version of the rabbit ears are actually a completly >> different design than the wooden ones. I would not have even called >> them "rabbit ears" because they do not have "ears" at all. They use >> other means to hold the rope, which cannot exceed 5/8" in dia. > > I assume they are on the order of the cam cleats that are used in sailing. > They are available in all sorts of materials. > > There is even a version that allows a person to release heavily loaded > lines under complete control. One version is called a "trigger cleat". > > Bill > ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:23:45 -0400 From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears In-Reply-To: References:

Stephen, No, the rope passes up though a short piece the tubing, goes through the cam cleat that is mounted 45 degrees from vertical and ties to the deck cleat that is on the top. -Delbert On 9/29/06, Stephen Rees wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I have used Harken cam cleats for managing and tensioning lines on the stage > deck for horizontal use but not for vertical applications. Would there be > concerns about the line slipping out sideways in that circumstance? > Steve Rees > > > On 9/29/06 2:06 PM, "Bill Nelson" wrote: > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > >> The steel version of the rabbit ears are actually a completly > >> different design than the wooden ones. I would not have even called > >> them "rabbit ears" because they do not have "ears" at all. They use > >> other means to hold the rope, which cannot exceed 5/8" in dia. > > > > I assume they are on the order of the cam cleats that are used in sailing. > > They are available in all sorts of materials. > > > > There is even a version that allows a person to release heavily loaded > > lines under complete control. One version is called a "trigger cleat". > > > > Bill > > > > -- Delbert L. Hall ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre 423-773-4255 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <2c0e15160609291450q10898d50x6063baa0e42a166c [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:50:21 -0400 From: "Gregg Carville" Subject: Re: Outdoor Sound Systems In-Reply-To: References:

Thanks for the inputs and I will check out the Community line of gear as well as the Technomad. A couple of specs 2,000 people "home" side, 1,000 "away" It is a municipal stadium, no money for modelers. the away side is backed by a 4 lane highway. bids go to the lowest bidder - very frustrating. Yes the current installation is 70v - the speakers are on 100w taps. Yes it is Peavey and I don't think it is the best choice. They are Impulse 200's. And all the speakers are mounted behind the spectators, not a location I would think is ideal, but what was/is easy. My problem is to fix the problem without major expense. And to sell it to people who don't understand why the system doesn't work like it used to. (of the 10 speakers up, today I found 6 with major holes in the woofers, gee wonder why it doesn't sound so good.) Thanks for the advice, I will do my best to try and sort out this mess. -Gregg ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000801c6e416$a23036c0$6401a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" References: Subject: Re: The quest for safe snow Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:28:48 -0600 This guy desires. Not that I will ever use it, but I might. This is why I read this list. Aside from all the banter that makes it light, and the touching of headinesss that makes it enlightened, I love reading this as much as I do the old Stagecraft Magazine. Actually more. It is more immediate and diverse in a couple ways. Rob't ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Frame" > > When I "snow" on my stage I use a "shifting gutter system". Fairly > easy/cheap to construct. I've used confetti and plastic snow for > different f/x. The beauty of this unit is that it rigs to one pipe > or could be dead hung if you have a way to access the gutter to refill > it. The snow falls in about a 2' deep pattern when dropped from an 17' > trim. Obviously air currents will vary that dispersion. I've had > light flurries to practically blizzard conditions. Contact me off list > if you want instructions (or if enough people desire I will post to the > list) > Operation is as simple as pulling a single Rope- even my 10 year old > daughter could do it. > > Bob > Robert M. Frame, Coordinator of Theatre Operations > Cayuga Community College > 197 Franklin St. Auburn, NY 13021-3099 > (Voice): 315-255-1743 ext. 2340 (Fax): 315-255-2117 > (E-mail): Framer [at] Cayuga-cc.edu > > Jonathan Zitelman > Subject: The quest for safe snow > > > been trying to think up a shifting gutter system, kind of like a sift, > filled with iridescent confetti or possibly expanded polystyrene beads ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000d01c6e417$174b0110$6401a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" References:

Subject: Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:32:04 -0600 I would agree with you Bill. Hauling any steel to the grid is heavy business. /G/runt) Rob't ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Nelson" > > > Along with the testing of Plywood vs. Steel, how would an Aluminum > > version fare? > > An aluminum version should be somewhere between plywood and steel in just > about all areas. > > I think steel might be overdoing it a bit - and would be rather heavy > unless using hollow tubing for the "ears". > > Bill > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <451DA047.3000108 [at] earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:37:59 -0700 From: Bill Schaffell Subject: Rental drape aggrement We don't usually rent out drape stock without our crew for the install but I have rental going out of 40' tall sheers and I want to cover myself from client stupidity. Do any of you have a straight forward agreement sighting things such as use and misuse ( no cutting, pinning, stapling etc...) that I could utilize? Contact me off list. Thanks, Bill Schaffell WJS Studios info [at] wjsstudios. com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:36:22 -0500 From: "Jonathan Zitelman" Subject: Re: The quest for safe snow In-Reply-To: References: Bob, That sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. Since it sounds like several on the list would like more details, please post! Thanks, Jonathan > When I "snow" on my stage I use a "shifting gutter system". Fairly > easy/cheap to construct. I've used confetti and plastic snow for > different f/x. The beauty of this unit is that it rigs to one pipe > or could be dead hung if you have a way to access the gutter to refill > it. ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 22:34:04 -0700 That's why we have ground crews, slap a sheave on high steel, add line, funny looking thing shows up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" > --------------------------------------------------- > > I would agree with you Bill. Hauling any steel to the grid is heavy > business. > /G/runt) > Rob't > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Nelson" > > > > > Along with the testing of Plywood vs. Steel, how would an Aluminum > > > version fare? > > > > An aluminum version should be somewhere between plywood and steel in > just > > about all areas. > > > > I think steel might be overdoing it a bit - and would be rather > heavy > > unless using hollow tubing for the "ears". > > > > Bill > > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000f01c6e45a$95601750$6401a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" References:

Subject: Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 00:35:12 -0600 > funny looking thing shows up. Rabbit ears? You're not talking about one of the ground crew are you? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > That's why we have ground crews, slap a sheave on high steel, add line, > > funny looking thing shows up. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Idaho Scenic & Rigging" > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > I would agree with you Bill. Hauling any steel to the grid is heavy > > business. > > /G/runt) > > Rob't > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1086.64.28.53.113.1159603404.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 01:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Gridbits and Rabbit Ears From: "Bill Nelson" >> I have used Harken cam cleats for managing and tensioning lines on the >> stage >> deck for horizontal use but not for vertical applications. Would there be >> concerns about the line slipping out sideways in that circumstance? I have used such cleats on large sailboats, including halyards, where the cleat was mounted vertically. I have never seen a line slip out of the cams. And those lines had pulls far in excess if what you would want to try to handle on stage without a 10:1 or better winch. There are even larger cleats, but the largest sailboat I ever taught on was a 53 foot steel hulled ketch. As with anything else, the equipment must be rated for the load. Bill ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #967 *****************************