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X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 36480745; Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:01:28 -0700 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.5 (2006-08-29) on localhost X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,EMPTY_MESSAGE, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS autolearn=no version=3.1.5 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #984 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 03:00:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #984 1. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by "Duane" 2. Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by b Ricie 3. Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by b Ricie 4. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 5. Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by CB 6. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by "Jeffrey Mulvey" 7. SFX by Christoher Thielking 8. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 9. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 10. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 11. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by Bruce Purdy 12. Re: SFX by "Scott Parker" 13. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 14. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by "Jeffrey Mulvey" 15. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by Chip Wood 16. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by Jacqueline Haney Kidwell 17. Re: SFX by Randy Levine 18. Magical flowers by "Shelley Seifert" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <0d7701c6f053$a34381e0$0201a8c0 [at] kc.rr.com> From: "Duane" References: Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 07:15:43 -0500 System is checked before house opens: Mic packs get fresh batteries and moisture barrier and is sound checked by tech, left on. Actors put them on when they dress. Checked by switching into Green Room speaker only and out of house feed. SM has spare(s) if mic sweats out or battery goes dead anyway. Tech lifts volume of closest actor to help voice project and actors stand a little closer to help until the next time actor is offstage. If actor never leaves stage, spare pack is in a costume "accessory" actor puts on if mic goes out if necessary. During a musical with 36 mics it can get quite busy. Duane ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20061015160726.26613.qmail [at] web50614.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 09:07:26 -0700 (PDT) From: b Ricie Subject: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre In-Reply-To: Not sure what kinda show you have,(comedy, drama, mystery, musical) but I was wondering if you could incorporate the sound check as part of the show or pre show. Perhaps someone could come up with some kind of comical bit ( bungling custodian or waiter). If you encourage the musicians that arrive early to play for tips, why not see if one of your actors would be willing to create some kind of interesting improve. I would guess the best way to get around the problem is to include the audience and entertain them while doing your sound check. Best of luck. Brian Rice 508-685-0716 b_ricie [at] yahoo.com "Blessed are the cracked: For it is they who let in the light." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20061015161438.10954.qmail [at] web50603.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 09:14:38 -0700 (PDT) From: b Ricie Subject: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre In-Reply-To: WAIT! Coffee finally took effect and I was able to heed what I read. Did you say you have Musicians that show up EARLY? If that can be done, then anything can be done. Brian Rice 508-685-0716 b_ricie [at] yahoo.com "Blessed are the cracked: For it is they who let in the light." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:54:47 EDT Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre In a message dated 15/10/06 17:08:11 GMT Daylight Time, b_ricie [at] yahoo.com writes: > Not sure what kinda show you have,(comedy, drama, > mystery, musical) but I was wondering if you could > incorporate the sound check as part of the show or pre > show. This ties in with a couple of questions that I was going to ask. How big is the space, and what sort of show is it? Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061015112544.00c4a918 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 11:25:44 From: CB Subject: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre >So I turn to the list and it's wisdom...any other dinner theatres out >there with the same problem? Solutions? You've already come up with a solution. Sound check. I tell all my clients, "We *ARE* going to do a sound check. If you want to wait 'til the audience is in the room, that's your perogative. I prefer to make mistakes and repairs whil we are the only ones here." Find the time to get the actors and orchestra in to do the check, or accept that there will be times where the sound is really gonna suck. There are't really any two ways about it. Good sound cost money. Lemme say that again for those of you who think that we can make it on a boom box and some CD's that you found at the flea market. Good sound costs money. Good sound can transport you audience in time and place far cheaper than your set or lights can do, too. Crappy sound can take them out of it just as fast, no matter how good the set and lights are. Accept, or correct. S'real easy. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 12:13:48 -0700 From: "Jeffrey Mulvey" Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre In-Reply-To: References: > How big is > the space, and what sort of show is it? 200 seat dinner theatre. Thurst stage, so seating is wide but not very deep. The bandstand is off to the left of the stage. Currently showing Oklahoma, next show is a christmas review. We do mostly musicals with a few random comedies. >Did you say you have Musicians that show up EARLY? It's very, VERY rare, but occasionally it does happen. Thank you all. Keep 'em coming! Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:28:08 -0400 Subject: SFX Message-ID: From: Christoher Thielking Hello everyone, I am a BFA Lighting student at SUNY-Fredonia, and am currently taking Sound Design I. I was assigned a project to find out anything and everything I can about the digital software package SFX, as well as any other comparable program. I was hoping that someone could explain how SFX actually works, how it controls the board and the rack and what not, as well as inform me of any comparable products that you have worked with or otherwise know of. Thank you ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:23:26 EDT Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre In a message dated 15/10/06 19:57:13 GMT Daylight Time, psyd [at] cox.net writes: > Good sound costs money. Good sound can > transport you audience in time and place far cheaper than your set or > lights can do, too. Crappy sound can take them out of it just as fast, no > matter how good the set and lights are. > Accept, or correct. S'real easy. I accept, in principle, what you say. But, I ask why you need radio microphones to the n-th degree. In forty years, I have once worked on a show where they could be justified. This was a kids production of "The Wizard of Oz". Children's voices have insufficient power to sustain the vocals. For major concerts, the expectations of the audience have a part. They expect it all to be miked to hell and gone, with a sound field to match. In straight theatre, I feel this to be wrong. The original productions of Broadway musicals used no such artificial aids. They just used singers who could do their jobs. When did we lose this? Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <599.4cea36a6.32641dc0 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:26:56 EDT Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre In a message dated 15/10/06 20:14:38 GMT Daylight Time, mulvey.tech [at] gmail.com writes: > > How big is > > the space, and what sort of show is it? > > 200 seat dinner theatre. Thurst stage, so seating is wide but not > very deep. The bandstand is off to the left of the stage. > > Currently showing Oklahoma, next show is a christmas review. We do > mostly musicals with a few random comedies. So, why the mikes? Either on the actors or on the band? Frank Wood ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:41:35 -0400 Message-ID: <00a401c6f0b3$7402a360$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > The original productions of=20 > Broadway=20 > musicals used no such artificial aids. They were also orchestrated in such a way as to not mask the vocal = frequency range. Modern musicals are not so orchestrated. ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <4FC06575-8BE3-4ABE-9BB3-65C68CF1EC7F [at] rochester.rr.com> From: Bruce Purdy Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 20:16:21 -0400 On 15 Oct 2006, at 19:23, FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > I ask why you need radio > microphones to the n-th degree. In forty years, I have once worked > on a show where they > could be justified. This was a kids production of "The Wizard of Oz". > Children's voices have insufficient power to sustain the vocals. > The original productions of Broadway > musicals used no such artificial aids. They just used singers who > could do their > jobs. When did we lose this? Frank, you have just hit on one of my own pet peeves! Especially in my venue - an opera house with superb acoustics - why does everyone need to be miked? How did we all survive for so many years without them? The answers are complex, some justified and some not. Partly - as Jeff pointed out, modern musicals are scored differently. Last summer we did Pirates of Penzance, and everyone had to be miked to compete with the orchestra. I finally realised after re-listening to a couple LPs of older productions of "Pirates", the difference in orchestration. It used to be primarily strings in the orchestra - fairly easy to sing over, but the "New version" features a pit full of electronic keyboards, drums and even some brass! How do you sing over that? Beyond that however, is a lack of vocal training. It becomes a "Chicken or the egg" kind of vicious circle where a] You can't hear the voices so you have to mike them. b] They have me wearing a mike, so why should I bother trying to project? They'll hear me just fine! c] (See " a] " above) Why mike the band? I believe a lot of it comes from aesthetic balance. Yesterday I had a comedian who also played an acoustic guitar and sang a couple of songs. His guitar sounded crisp and clear throughout the hall, but I had to use his pickup and run it through the system because he was singing with a mike. The acoustic music straight from the instrument didn't blend well with the amplified voice coming from the speakers. It just didn't sound right. I suppose the same concept might come into play with pit orchestras in musicals. Another thing to consider is that whilst I am fortunate enough to be in an acoustic treasure, many modern places are not so well designed from that standpoint. The dinner theatre being discussed might not "carry the sound" so well. It was revealed that it is wide and shallow. When you sing facing towards Stage Left, the audience on the Stage Right side won't hear you. Sing straight to the back of the hall, and folks on either side won't hear you. Amplified sound evens all that out. As I said, it's a complicated issue, but in principle I feel as you do. Despite the other problems, actors NEED to learn to project, and many these days never learn that. Bruce ____________________ Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <90d9c9980610151723t63c2c2eqd2bac310a9b82ef6 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 20:23:28 -0400 From: "Scott Parker" Subject: Re: SFX In-Reply-To: References: Hello Christoher, you're best bet would be to download the demo of SFX and play with it. It also should come with documentation. Go to: http://www.stageresearch.com/ hth, Scott On 10/15/06, Christoher Thielking wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Hello everyone, > > I am a BFA Lighting student at SUNY-Fredonia, and am currently taking Sound > Design I. I was assigned a project to find out anything and everything I > can about the digital software package SFX, as well as any other comparable > program. I was hoping that someone could explain how SFX actually works, > how it controls the board and the rack and what not, as well as inform me of > any comparable products that you have worked with or otherwise know of. > > Thank you > > > -- Thanks and take care, Scott Scott C. Parker Professor/Technical Director Dept. of Performing Arts Dyson College of Arts and Sciences [at] Pace University Office/shipping: 41 Park Row, 1205F Mailing: 1 Pace Plaza New York, NY 10038 212-346-1423 Fax: 914-989-8425 ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 01:10:45 GMT Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre Message-Id: <20061015.181137.15672.592185 [at] webmail31.lax.untd.com> There were also fewer musicians required under AFM Broadway contracts. /s/ Richard ____________________________ > The original productions of Broadway musicals used no such = artificial aids. ______________________ They were also orchestrated in such a way as to not mask the vocal = frequency range. Modern musicals are not so orchestrated. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:26:19 -0700 From: "Jeffrey Mulvey" Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre In-Reply-To: References:

>The dinner theatre being discussed might not > "carry the sound" so well. It was revealed that it is wide and > shallow. When you sing facing towards Stage Left, the audience on the > Stage Right side won't hear you. Sing straight to the back of the > hall, and folks on either side won't hear you. Amplified sound evens > all that out. > Bruce The building used to be a winery. Acoustics are shoddy at best. We have a right angle created by the kitchen walls near the middle of house right that bounces a large amount of sound back at the stage. Far from ideal. Acoustic panels are in the budget for next year. And you're right, projection is a lost art and many actors just don't see the need to project while wearing a mic, which doesn't help gain before feedback. Anyway....would love more creative suggestions on a "sound check". Thank you one and all. Jeff Mulvey ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4532E1B1.20405 [at] gmail.com> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:34:41 -0700 From: Chip Wood Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre References:

In-Reply-To: Bruce Purdy wrote: > On 15 Oct 2006, at 19:23, FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > >> I ask why you need radio microphones to the n-th degree. > >> The original productions of Broadway musicals used no such artificial aids. They just used singers who >> could do their jobs. When did we lose this? > > Frank, you have just hit on one of my own pet peeves! Especially in > my venue - an opera house with superb acoustics - why does everyone need > to be miked? How did we all survive for so many years without them? > Bruce > Does anybody(Abe, Jim, ??)know if the most famous belter and hall filler of all time, Ethel Merman, was miked when she did "Annie get your Gun" at Lincoln Center in '66? In that huge hall I would be surprised if she wasn't. It sounded that way to me. I also saw her in a summer revival of "Call Me Madame" at the outdoor Starlight Theatre in Kansas City in '72(?). I know she was miked there. Given the economies of putting butts in the seats and the ability to build LARGE houses, even the best "projectors" may not be able to do it anymore. Chip ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20061016021947.86114.qmail [at] web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:19:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jacqueline Haney Kidwell Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre In-Reply-To: Sullivan is orchestrated for a full orchestra, including 2 trumpets (or cornets) and 2 (or 3)trombones, with timpani/percussion, full strings and full winds. --- Bruce Purdy wrote: > The answers are complex, some justified and > some not. Partly - as > Jeff pointed out, modern musicals are scored > differently. Last summer > we did Pirates of Penzance, and everyone had to > be miked to compete > with the orchestra. I finally realised after > re-listening to a couple > LPs of older productions of "Pirates", the > difference in > orchestration. It used to be primarily strings > in the orchestra - > fairly easy to sing over, but the "New version" > features a pit full > of electronic keyboards, drums and even some > brass! How do you sing over that? > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Randy Levine Subject: Re: SFX Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:43:26 -0700 Also Check out QLab from: http://figure53.com/ for those of us that use the Mac platform. Although this isn't an exhaustive list, there's more info about Mac software here: http://www.theatremac.com/sound.html#playback Randy On Oct 15, 2006, at 3:28 PM, Christoher Thielking wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see stagecraft.theprices.net/> > --------------------------------------------------- > > Hello everyone, > > I am a BFA Lighting student at SUNY-Fredonia, and am currently > taking Sound > Design I. I was assigned a project to find out anything and > everything I > can about the digital software package SFX, as well as any other > comparable > program. I was hoping that someone could explain how SFX actually > works, > how it controls the board and the rack and what not, as well as > inform me of > any comparable products that you have worked with or otherwise know > of. > > Thank you > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Shelley Seifert" Subject: Magical flowers Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 23:46:15 -0400 I'm sure a number of you all have produced "Cinderella". Our Props Master is having difficulty with the flowers popping out of the vase. If anyone has used certain methods or have any ideas on this and would care to share I would be very grateful. Thank you for your time. Sincerely, Shellene Seifert _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of Search�say hello! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #984 *****************************