Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 36544676; Tue, 17 Oct 2006 03:01:16 -0700 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,EMPTY_MESSAGE, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS,URI_NO_WWW_ANY_CGI autolearn=no version=3.1.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.5 (2006-08-29) on localhost X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #985 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 03:00:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #985 1. Pinocchio Nose by "Eccleston, Mark" 2. Re: SFX by "Jason Salvatori" 3. Re: Pinocchio Nose by "Maurice Moe Conn" 4. Re: Magical flowers by Greg Williams 5. Re: Magical flowers by Ford Sellers 6. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by Jason Tollefson 7. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 8. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 9. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 10. dry ice fog redux by Andrew Vance 11. Re: dry ice fog redux by "Dirk Van Pernis" 12. Re: dry ice fog redux by Jerry Durand 13. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by CB 14. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 15. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 16. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 17. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by "deziner [at] theatreinthepark.com" 18. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 19. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 20. Re: ..that just ain't so by "deziner [at] theatreinthepark.com" 21. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 22. Sound in BIG houses (was Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre) by "Michael Powers" 23. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by Stephen Rees 24. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 25. Re: Magical flowers by "Shelley Seifert" 26. Re: Mini-Mag Tailcap Switch by "Bill Nelson" 27. Re: dry ice fog redux by Bruce Purdy 28. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by "Matt Pumplin" 29. Re: dry ice fog redux by Jerry Durand 30. Re: dry ice fog redux by Andrew Vance 31. Re: dry ice fog redux by Bruce Purdy 32. Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: From: "Eccleston, Mark" Subject: Pinocchio Nose Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 07:15:38 -0500 We are doing Pinocchio next year and are trying to find different ways to make Pinocchio's nose grow during the show. Any suggestions? Thanks! Mark S. Eccleston Fantasy Playhouse Children's Theatre Huntsville, Alabama 256-694-8575 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1caebf780610160604r6bdd2d9tbfb9442242fa22d [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 09:04:12 -0400 From: "Jason Salvatori" Subject: Re: SFX In-Reply-To: References: One that is not as feature rich, but comparable in its intended use (any 1/8th the cost) is Sound Cue System http://www.soundcuesystem.com/ Jason Salvatori Technical Director Vaughan City Playhouse On 10/15/06, Christoher Thielking wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Hello everyone, > > I am a BFA Lighting student at SUNY-Fredonia, and am currently taking Sound > Design I. I was assigned a project to find out anything and everything I > can about the digital software package SFX, as well as any other comparable > program. I was hoping that someone could explain how SFX actually works, > how it controls the board and the rack and what not, as well as inform me of > any comparable products that you have worked with or otherwise know of. > > Thank you > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Maurice Moe Conn" Subject: RE: Pinocchio Nose Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:32:34 +0000 Make him Lie.... The Door was open I had to walk through... Moe Help support Long Reach Long Riders 2007 Charity Ride. For Donation and/or Rider information, Check out: www.lrlr.org >From: "Eccleston, Mark" >Reply-To: "Stagecraft" >To: "Stagecraft" >Subject: Pinocchio Nose >Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 07:15:38 -0500 > >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >We are doing Pinocchio next year and are trying to find different ways to >make Pinocchio's nose grow during the show. Any suggestions? > >Thanks! >Mark S. Eccleston >Fantasy Playhouse Children's Theatre >Huntsville, Alabama >256-694-8575 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 09:28:34 -0400 From: Greg Williams Subject: Re: Magical flowers In-reply-to: Message-id: <533AE73D-9107-4A5C-9023-263EF732E5D4 [at] appstate.edu> References: Hi Shelley! Remember the trick I set up for the "Godspell" character a year or so ago? The appearing bouquet would work for your vase as well, you'll just need to rig the vase to hold the spring-loaded gizmo and also to allow a way for the spring to be sprung. I still have a 2nd set of those if you need them. -=Greg=- On Oct 15, 2006, at 11:46 PM, Shelley Seifert wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see stagecraft.theprices.net/> > --------------------------------------------------- > > I'm sure a number of you all have produced "Cinderella". Our > Props Master is having difficulty with the flowers popping out of > the vase. If anyone has used certain methods or have any ideas on > this and would care to share I would be very grateful. Thank you > for your time. > > Sincerely, > > Shellene Seifert -=Greg Williams=- Production Manager Valborg Theatre, Appalachian State University www.LRLR.org - 2007 Ride - NY, Ottawa, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine - c'mon and ride with us! ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.5.6.2.20061016105803.02f73ca0 [at] cornell.edu> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:01:30 -0400 From: Ford Sellers Subject: Re: Magical flowers In-Reply-To: References: Shellene, When I worked on a Giant Show in Las Vegas, we=20 had trees that bloomed. This was accomplished=20 with a pneumatic cylinder. If the vase is hand=20 held, you could incorperate a small air tank into=20 the vase, and have an actor manipulate a valve.=20 If it's stationary it could be hooked to an=20 air-hose running to a tank backstage. -Ford At 11:46 PM 10/15/2006, you wrote: >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > > I'm sure a number of you all have produced=20 > "Cinderella". Our Props Master is having=20 > difficulty with the flowers popping out of the=20 > vase. If anyone has used certain methods or=20 > have any ideas on this and would care to share=20 > I would be very grateful. Thank you for your time. > >Sincerely, > >Shellene Seifert > >_________________________________________________________________ >The next generation of Search=97say hello! >http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=3Den-us&FORM= =3DWLMTAG ************************ Ford H Sellers Master Electrician Cornell University Schwartz Center for the Performing Arts 430 College Avenue Ithaca NY, 14850 (607) 254-2736 office (607) 254-2733 fax=20 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20061016162555.6959.qmail [at] web90410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 09:25:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Tollefson Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre >Good sound cost money. Lemme say that again=0A>for those of you who think= that we can make it on=0A>a boom box and some CD'sthat you found at the=0A= >flea market. Good sound costs money.=0A=0A>Good sound can transport you a= udience in time=0A>and place far cheaper than your set or lights can do=0A= =0AChris,=0A=0AFirst of all that I agree with you on the importance of soun= d design. I cherish those shows I've gotten to work on that have had the b= enifit of a real, top-notch sound designer. That being said don't the two = statments above seem add odds to you. I've seen first hand just how expens= ive good sound can be and I'd often question the validity of your second st= atement.=0A=0AJason Tollefson=0Awww.tollefsondesigns.com ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <549.965821f.326518d6 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:18:14 EDT Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre In a message dated 16/10/06 00:41:57 GMT Daylight Time, stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com writes: > > The original productions of > > Broadway > > musicals used no such artificial aids. > > They were also orchestrated in such a way as to not mask the vocal frequency > range. Modern musicals are not so orchestrated. I don't think that this is right, about the orchestration. Modern musicals expect, indeed demand amplification of both the singers and the orchestra, to such an extent that the SD is probably more important than the conductor. What the older Broadaway jobs had was a cast which could sing. Thankfully, this is still true for opera. Imagine what James Levine or William Christie would say if there were a sound man who could overrule their balance. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <53a.292bf76c.32651b8e [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:29:50 EDT Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre In a message dated 16/10/06 01:17:14 GMT Daylight Time, bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com writes: > The answers are complex, some justified and some not. Partly - as > Jeff pointed out, modern musicals are scored differently. Last summer > we did Pirates of Penzance, and everyone had to be miked to compete > with the orchestra. I finally realised after re-listening to a couple > LPs of older productions of "Pirates", the difference in > orchestration. It used to be primarily strings in the orchestra - > fairly easy to sing over, but the "New version" features a pit full > of electronic keyboards, drums and even some brass! How do you sing > over that? This brings back a memory. When last I saw "Pirates", at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane, it was done largely without amplification. But, for the fanfare which leads to the entry of the Police, two stand microphones rose up in the orchestra, and two trumpeters approached the bells of their instruments to within a foot of them and played double forte. It nearly blew my head off! Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:40:41 EDT Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre In a message dated 16/10/06 03:20:21 GMT Daylight Time, jacki14fr [at] yahoo.com writes: > Sullivan is orchestrated for a full orchestra, > including 2 trumpets (or cornets) and 2 (or > 3)trombones, with timpani/percussion, full > strings and full winds. Thanks for the information. While I have sung in the chorus of some of the operettas, I have never seen a full score, but only a piano rendition. Wagner is also very heavily orchestrated, as are Berlioz and Bizet, not to mention Verdi. Wagner solved the problem at Beyrouth by burying most of the orchestra under the stage, but most opera houses make them work without this aid. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-Id: From: Andrew Vance Subject: dry ice fog redux Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:55:58 -0400 I'm looking at alternatives for dry ice to create low lying fog for our upcoming holiday ghost story. Dry ice is ideally what we want, but we're exploring other, more permanent [and, in the long term, less expensive] options as well. What are y'all's thoughts on the following? I've been looking at the Le Maitre's Low Smoke Generators and Low Smoke Converters. How effective are they? How much CO2 do they consume? [We're looking at about 7-10 minutes of fog.] What other devices are out there that cool fogger fog to create low lying fog? We've researched several DIY solutions, but I'm hesitant to put all my faith in one of these for the run of our shows. Has anyone built these? How do they look? Do they create a reasonable facsimile of dry ice? How long does it last? Couple of things I'm sure y'all will ask about. We're looking for about 7-10 minutes of fog, covering about a 20'-0" by 20'-0" playing area. As it will [most likely] spill off into the audience, something that would either dissipate quickly or not bring fits of coughing from the front row. And, lastly, something that's AEA compliant/acceptable is a must. Any thoughts? -- Sincerely, Andrew Vance Lighting Designer atvanceld [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Subject: RE: dry ice fog redux Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 14:14:23 -0400 Message-ID: <071168C3EF37C34580207EB53478A0F752691B [at] stage.OTC.local> In-Reply-To: From: "Dirk Van Pernis" We own 2 LeMaitre LSX units, and with our G300 foggers using Molecular fluid we have covered a 30'x30' space. On the plus side the LSX units are a closed system, so no CO2. The downside is that they are loud and that as you pump the foggers harder the less effective the LSX becomes. Seven minutes is what we have found to be the ragged edge of maximum output with the fog staying down. Hope this helps, Dirk Van Pernis - OTC ME --------------------------------------------------- I'm looking at alternatives for dry ice to create low lying fog for our upcoming holiday ghost story. Dry ice is ideally what we want, but we're exploring other, more permanent [and, in the long term, less expensive] options as well. What are y'all's thoughts on the following? I've been looking at the Le Maitre's Low Smoke Generators and Low Smoke Converters. How effective are they? How much CO2 do they consume? [We're looking at about 7-10 minutes of fog.] What other devices are out there that cool fogger fog to create low lying fog? We've researched several DIY solutions, but I'm hesitant to put all my faith in one of these for the run of our shows. Has anyone built these? How do they look? Do they create a reasonable facsimile of dry ice? How long does it last? Couple of things I'm sure y'all will ask about. We're looking for about 7-10 minutes of fog, covering about a 20'-0" by 20'-0" playing area. As it will [most likely] spill off into the audience, something that would either dissipate quickly or not bring fits of coughing from the front row. And, lastly, something that's AEA compliant/acceptable is a must. Any thoughts? -- Sincerely, Andrew Vance Lighting Designer atvanceld [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:04:55 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: dry ice fog redux In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061016110202.01f95148 [at] interstellar.com> References: At 10:55 AM 10/16/2006, Andrew Vance wrote: >We've researched several DIY solutions, but I'm hesitant to put all >my faith in one of these for the run of our shows. Has anyone built >these? How do they look? Do they create a reasonable facsimile of >dry ice? How long does it last? For a small stage, we put ice and water in an ice chest, pumped that through a surplus heat exchanger (think car radiator, only smaller industrial version), and used a fan and dryer hose to blow the smoke from a standard fog machine through the radiator. It stayed on stage all the way into the first couple of rows of the house. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061016112717.00c512e8 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 11:27:17 From: CB Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre >For major concerts, the expectations of the audience have a part. They expect >it all to be miked to hell and gone, with a sound field to match. In straight >theatre, I feel this to be wrong. The original productions of Broadway >musicals used no such artificial aids. They just used singers who could do their >jobs. When did we lose this? Just recently. Right about the time you stopped doing sound and sound started to be recognized by the theatre as something they wanted, sort of. I'm guessing the start of things was right about 'JC Superstar', with Andy wanting a rock-y, jazz-y feel, and the godfather of sound design, Abe Jacob, giving it to him. Just my opinion, but things seem to have gotten more amplified from there on. You're right, it is a combination of the audience changing their expectations and the actors leaning on the technical crutch. Audiences are far louder than they used to be, too. Used to be that they'd sit quietly and pay attention. That's gone. Used to be that you had to have a voice, and know how to use it, before you could be considered a professional actor. That, too, has gone by the wayside. It's real easy to point the blame at the sound department, but we're just making do with what we've been given. Quite a few of us would be very happy to send the actors out naked, and have the orchestra just play, but the lack of talent onthe stage and the size of the newer venues (and lack of appropriate acoustic design) makes our job an absolute necessity. Shoot, we used to use fire for illumination. Things are changing constantly, Frank. Adapt or die... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:10:24 -0400 Message-ID: <012201c6f15f$1e868f80$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > > They were also orchestrated in such a way as to not mask the vocal > frequency > > range. Modern musicals are not so orchestrated. > > I don't think that this is right, about the orchestration. That's OK, Frank; we're accustomed to your not believing things that are widely known and amply documented. ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:09:20 GMT Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre Message-Id: <20061016.131021.8266.662206 [at] webmail37.lax.untd.com> Wait a minute! By Wagner placing the orchestra in an acoustically = engineered cornucopia that reaches under the stage, he has assured = that all audience members sitting from under the Rhine (front row) to = Valhalla (last row) receive the maximum decibels of Wagner's personal = blend of orchestral sound. The strings need more help, and get it; the = brass and percussion need less help and are seated off-axis in the = elongated conic orchestra seating area. It is intended to gather and = project sound just as an ellipsoidal reflector spotlight does. It is = NOT intended to, nor does it, mute the sound from the orchestra or = allow opera singers hired at Bayreuth any relief from full projection. 'The Ring' is the ACID TEST for any Opera Company and nobody wants the = standards to be lowered from when the the operas were originally = staged. It is demanded that the singers will be up to the challenge. /s/ Richard _____________ Wagner is also very heavily orchestrated, as are Berlioz and Bizet, = not to mention Verdi. Wagner solved the problem at Beyrouth by burying = most of the orchestra under the stage, but most opera houses make them = work without this aid. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:15:14 -0400 Message-ID: <012301c6f15f$cb362bf0$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: The number of instruments in the orchestration is only one aspect; older musicals are orchestrated in such a way that the instruments are largely playing in ranges that are above or below that of the human voice. ================================= Jeffrey E. Salzberg, Lighting Designer http://www.jeffsalzberg.com 201/379-3138 (Home) 917/238-7430 (Cell) jeffsalzberg (Skype) weblog: http://www.jeffsalzberg.com/blog.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:21:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre From: "deziner [at] theatreinthepark.com" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Wagner orchestrated for 88 musicians. If you haven't visited the opera house in Bayreuth, you'd get a huge charge out of that visit. Unbelievable acoustics. Saw The Flying Dutchman there years ago. Steve > From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" > Reply-To: "Stagecraft" > Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:15:14 -0400 > To: "Stagecraft" > Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > The number of instruments in the orchestration is only one aspect; older > musicals are orchestrated in such a way that the instruments are largely > playing in ranges that are above or below that of the human voice. > ================================= > Jeffrey E. Salzberg, > Lighting Designer > http://www.jeffsalzberg.com > > 201/379-3138 (Home) > 917/238-7430 (Cell) > jeffsalzberg (Skype) > weblog: http://www.jeffsalzberg.com/blog.htm > ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <27a.106a54f1.326558c7 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:51:03 EDT Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre In a message dated 16/10/06 21:11:06 GMT Daylight Time, stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com writes: > > > They were also orchestrated in such a way as to not mask the vocal > > frequency > > > range. Modern musicals are not so orchestrated. > > > > I don't think that this is right, about the orchestration. > > That's OK, Frank; we're accustomed to your not believing things that are > widely known and amply documented. So, point me at the documentation. As for 'widely known', I quote a proverb:"It ain't the things we don't know that get us in trouble, it's the things we know that ain't so". "I come from Missouri" (I don't, but I share the attitude of mind attributed to its denizend). Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <58b.3a2ccf5.32655b19 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:00:57 EDT Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre In a message dated 16/10/06 21:12:38 GMT Daylight Time, ladesigners [at] juno.com writes: > > Wait a minute! By Wagner placing the orchestra in an acoustically > engineered cornucopia that reaches under the stage, he has assured > that all audience members sitting from under the Rhine (front row) to > Valhalla (last row) receive the maximum decibels of Wagner's personal > blend of orchestral sound. The strings need more help, and get it; the > brass and percussion need less help and are seated off-axis in the > elongated conic orchestra seating area. It is intended to gather and > project sound just as an ellipsoidal reflector spotlight does. It is > NOT intended to, nor does it, mute the sound from the orchestra or > allow opera singers hired at Bayreuth any relief from full projection. > 'The Ring' is the ACID TEST for any Opera Company and nobody wants the > standards to be lowered from when the the operas were originally > staged. It is demanded that the singers will be up to the challenge. BLEND is the operative word. I have attended Wagner's operas in theatres from Bayreuth to the Roman theatre at Orange. Bayreuth, Wagner's own theatre, is best. The homogeneity of the sound is much better than that is theatres with more conventional orchestra pits. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:10:23 -0400 Subject: RE: ..that just ain't so From: "deziner [at] theatreinthepark.com" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Close! "It ain't so much the things we don't know that get us into trouble. It's the things we do know that just ain't so." - Artemus Ward, pseudonum of Charles Farrar Browne. Born, 1834, Waterford, Maine, US Die, 1867, Southampton, Hampshire, England. > From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com > Reply-To: "Stagecraft" > Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:51:03 EDT > To: "Stagecraft" > Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 16/10/06 21:11:06 GMT Daylight Time, > stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com writes: > >>>> They were also orchestrated in such a way as to not mask the vocal >>> frequency >>>> range. Modern musicals are not so orchestrated. >>> >>> I don't think that this is right, about the orchestration. >> >> That's OK, Frank; we're accustomed to your not believing things that are >> widely known and amply documented. > > So, point me at the documentation. As for 'widely known', I quote a > proverb:"It ain't the things we don't know that get us in trouble, it's the > things we > know that ain't so". > > "I come from Missouri" (I don't, but I share the attitude of mind attributed > to its denizend). > > > Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:12:40 EDT Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre In a message dated 16/10/06 21:23:48 GMT Daylight Time, deziner [at] theatreinthepark.com writes: > Wagner orchestrated for 88 musicians. If you haven't visited > the opera house in Bayreuth, you'd get a huge charge out > of that visit. Unbelievable acoustics. Saw The Flying > Dutchman there years ago. First, catch your tickets. This will take you seven years, unless you sign up as a friend. This costs, but ensures a ticket every two or three years. They don't take credit cards or cheques: bank transfers are the only way to pay. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <58f67b0f0610161544p7af41f5bxb67406c2dbcb74c1 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:44:39 -0500 From: "Michael Powers" Subject: Sound in BIG houses (was Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre) Chip Wood wrote: <<............. the ability to build LARGE houses, even the best "projectors" may not be able to do it anymore. >> Large, by itself, is not the issue. Acoustics have a lot to do with it. The Theatre at (pardon my spelling) Epidarus in Greece seats 14,000 + - and you can easily hear every word, if it is spoken from the acting area. Location was everything. The orchestra that accompanied the production I saw was only about 10 yards off left and they had to be amplified to hear anything other than the brass. Michael Michael Powers Director of Operations Central Lighting & Equipment 1720 Fuller Rd. Suite 150 West Des Moines Iowa 50265 515-277-4190 877-977-4190 Fax 515-277-2295 515-557-0178 cell michael [at] clelights.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:00:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre From: Stephen Rees Message-ID: In-Reply-To: The comp tix I got for a preview of Meistersinger in 1998 provided one of the highlights of my life. Was incredibly fortunate to be in the right place at the right time. I was in awe. Steve Rees On 10/16/06 6:12 PM, "FrankWood95 [at] aol.com" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 16/10/06 21:23:48 GMT Daylight Time, > deziner [at] theatreinthepark.com writes: > >> Wagner orchestrated for 88 musicians. If you haven't visited >> the opera house in Bayreuth, you'd get a huge charge out >> of that visit. Unbelievable acoustics. Saw The Flying >> Dutchman there years ago. > > First, catch your tickets. This will take you seven years, unless you sign up > as a friend. This costs, but ensures a ticket every two or three years. They > don't take credit cards or cheques: bank transfers are the only way to pay. > > > Frank Wood ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:21:28 -0400 Message-ID: <001301c6f18a$925c9640$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > I quote a > proverb:"It ain't the things we don't know that get us in > trouble, it's the things we > know that ain't so". Uh...Frank...your quoting that proverb is irony of immense proportions. ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Shelley Seifert" Subject: Re: Magical flowers Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:48:53 -0400 Greg! I actually mentioned that idea to Matt, he said no. Better those flowers than no flowers. Is there a chance you could bring them with you, or send them with Alice? I appreciate it, miss you guys. *Shelley >From: Greg Williams >Reply-To: "Stagecraft" >To: "Stagecraft" >Subject: Re: Magical flowers >Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 09:28:34 -0400 > >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >Hi Shelley! > Remember the trick I set up for the "Godspell" character a year or so >ago? The appearing bouquet would work for your vase as well, you'll just >need to rig the vase to hold the spring-loaded gizmo and also to allow a >way for the spring to be sprung. I still have a 2nd set of those if you >need them. > >-=Greg=- > _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1278.64.28.53.93.1161052726.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 19:38:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Mini-Mag Tailcap Switch From: "Bill Nelson" > In other words, with this switch, if the light is on, half-pressing the > tailcap will flash the light off until you release the switch. On the > others, half-pressing the switch while the light is off will flash the > light on until you release it, which I find more useful. Thanks for the clarification. I don't see the momentary off feature being of much use. I cannot think of any time where I would want to use it. It is nice that there are a number of choices for replacement end caps. All we have to do now is find the one that is the most reliable, while still fitting easily into the standard holster. Bill ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Bruce Purdy Subject: Re: dry ice fog redux Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:42:27 -0400 On 16 Oct 2006, at 13:55, Andrew Vance wrote: > We've researched several DIY solutions, but I'm hesitant to put all > my faith in one of these for the run of our shows. Has anyone > built these? How do they look? Do they create a reasonable > facsimile of dry ice? How long does it last? A few years ago I built myself a fog chiller out of an ice chest, from the plans here: http://gotfog.com/fog_machine_chiller.html The fog does tend to hug the ground more than without the chiller, but it's NOT the same as dry ice! Even chilled, the fog has a desire to rise, it's just not in as much of a hurry. Air currents from the HVAC, people walking through it etc. stirs the fog up and it does rise fairly quickly. It will NOT roll off the front of the stage and into the pit like dry ice fog would do! Dry Ice fog is heavier than air - Fog machine fog is lighter than air. Chilling it does not change that fact, it just slows the ascent. Bruce ____________________ Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3e3c173c0610162001o40285895r8e6e147ebe552c71 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:01:10 -0500 From: "Matt Pumplin" Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre Bruce said: >>The dinner theatre being discussed might not "carry the sound" so well. Jeff replied: >The building used to be a winery. Acoustics are shoddy at best. We >have a right angle created by the kitchen walls near the middle of >house right that bounces a large amount of sound back at the stage. This sounds just like the dinner theatre I started out in, except we were in the round, so things were even more wacky. What I remember is that the sound op did his checks about an hour before the show, with audience already in and dining. That time was variable, because sometimes he'd be waitserving, too. Anyway, battery up, quick check to make sure everything turns on, and that's about it. It was understood that run crew would be called on to switch belt packs if needed, and in fact sometimes that was built into the show, when there weren't enough mics to go around. Mostly the chorus was relied upon to sing loudly. There was also decent control over the 5-person (or so) "pit" (actually in a room above and to one side of the stage, with an open window for the conductor to see the action). I think it's a testement to everyone involved how well it worked; the audience was told during the pre-show about the live orchestra, and we still got compliments on the quality of our taped music. -Matt Pumplin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 20:15:04 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: dry ice fog redux In-reply-to: Message-id: <8D0CF005-FC23-47E7-9EB1-3AC1E44CC5B7 [at] interstellar.com> References:

On Oct 16, 2006, at 7:42 PM, Bruce Purdy wrote: > The fog does tend to hug the ground more than without the chiller, > but it's NOT the same as dry ice! Even chilled, the fog has a > desire to rise, it's just not in as much of a hurry. Air currents > from the HVAC, people walking through it etc. stirs the fog up and > it does rise fairly quickly. It will NOT roll off the front of the > stage and into the pit like dry ice fog would do! Yep, that's why I mentioned we got away with it on a SMALL stage. On a larger stage it would have never made it to the edge. It also entered from USC, so it was moving fairly fast towards the house. ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: <72956882-9C53-4F1F-ACC0-C11819C20306 [at] gmail.com> From: Andrew Vance Subject: Re: dry ice fog redux Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 23:31:35 -0400 On 16 Oct, 2006, at 22:42 , Bruce Purdy wrote: > A few years ago I built myself a fog chiller out of an ice chest, > from the plans here: > http://gotfog.com/fog_machine_chiller.html That's actually the exact same plans my crew stumbled upon and built quickly last week. > The fog does tend to hug the ground more than without the chiller, > but it's NOT the same as dry ice! Even chilled, the fog has a > desire to rise, it's just not in as much of a hurry. Air currents > from the HVAC, people walking through it etc. stirs the fog up and > it does rise fairly quickly. It will NOT roll off the front of the > stage and into the pit like dry ice fog would do! That's kind of what I thought. We're doing a demo with the DIY cooler & fogger tomorrow to see how it looks. We're also trying a few different options with dry ice to see what results we can get with them. > Dry Ice fog is heavier than air - Fog machine fog is lighter than > air. Chilling it does not change that fact, it just slows the ascent. I know all this, and hopefully it won't be an issue. With the length of run of our holiday favorite, plus the number of shows per week, using large amounts of dry ice per show becomes cost prohibitive. I'm just trying to see what else is out there, what works, and what can be more cost effective in the long term. You'll have to let me know how "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie" worked in your space. I'm actually dying to know. -- Sincerely, Andrew Vance Lighting Designer atvanceld [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: <019180AD-4736-46CE-BD54-ADF924020D74 [at] rochester.rr.com> From: Bruce Purdy Subject: Re: dry ice fog redux Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 00:32:03 -0400 On 16 Oct 2006, at 23:31, Andrew Vance wrote: > You'll have to let me know how "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie" > worked in your space. I'm actually dying to know. > I'll do that! In the mean time, please do share the results of your fog experiments. Bruce ____________________ Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 04:31:14 GMT Subject: Re: Sound Checks in Dinner Theatre Message-Id: <20061016.213213.833.610151 [at] webmail34.lax.untd.com> BLEND of instrumental voices is the key, as you pointed out. It is = more important than the visual effect of synchronized bowing of all = the the 1st and 2nd violins during the opening notes of Act Two of = Die Walkure when Brunnhilde the Valkyr is about to sing Hoyotoho! etc. /s/ Richard _________________________ > = > Wait a minute! By Wagner placing the orchestra in an acoustically = engineered cornucopia that reaches under the stage, he has assured = that all audience members sitting from under the Rhine (front row) to = Valhalla (last row) receive the maximum decibels of Wagner's personal = blend of orchestral sound. The strings need more help, and get it; = the brass and percussion need less help and are seated off-axis in = the elongated conic orchestra seating area. It is intended to gather = and project sound just as an ellipsoidal reflector spotlight does. It = is NOT intended to, nor does it, mute the sound from the orchestra or = allow opera singers hired at Bayreuth any relief from full = projection. 'The Ring' is the ACID TEST for any Opera Company and = nobody wants the standards to be lowered from when the the operas = were originally staged. It is demanded that the singers will be up to = the challenge. __________________________ = BLEND is the operative word. I have attended Wagner's operas in = theatres from Bayreuth to the Roman theatre at Orange. Bayreuth, = Wagner's own theatre, is best. The homogeneity of the sound is much = better than that is theatres with more conventional orchestra pits. Frank Wood ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #985 *****************************