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X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 38251116; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:59:18 -0800 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS, SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID autolearn=ham version=3.1.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.5 (2006-08-29) on localhost X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #1019 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:58:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #1019 1. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by CB 2. Re: "Art" by CB 3. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by Stephen Litterst 4. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by "Limbacher, Jon E." 5. Re: "Art" by CB 6. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by Jerry Durand 7. Re: art by CB 8. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by CB 9. Foam question by "tomhull [at] mac.com" 10. Re: "Art" by Pat Kight 11. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by Jim Hyslop 12. Re: Foam question by Stephen Rees 13. Re: art by CB 14. Dirty Dancing in London by "Michael Finney" 15. Smoking ban by CB 16. Re: Art by CB 17. theater seat pans by 18. Re: Statehouse Chandelier Falls Friday During Maintenance by CB 19. Re: "Art" by "Tony Deeming" 20. Re: Elevator doors. by "C. Dopher" 21. Re: Elevator Doors by CB 22. Re: "Art" by "Paul Schreiner" 23. Re: where can i get... by 24. Re: Foam question by Kevin Holly 25. Re: Iggy Pop Ride by Stuart Wheaton 26. Re: Statehouse Chandelier Falls Friday During Maintenance by Josh Ratty 27. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 28. Statehouse Chandelier Falls Friday During Maintenance Followup by 29. Re: Long Reach Long Rider news by Greg Williams 30. Re: "Art" by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 31. shameless but warranted plug by KEITH ARSENAULT 32. Re: "Art" by "Tony Deeming" 33. Membership Drive Question by Jo Vandver 34. Re: Membership Drive Question by KEITH ARSENAULT 35. Re: Membership Drive Question by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 36. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by Dale farmer 37. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by Dale farmer 38. Re: Iggy Pop Ride by Dale farmer 39. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by Mitch Hefter 40. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by "Occy" 41. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by "Occy" 42. Cotton scrim vs synthetic scrim by "Ben Thoron" 43. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by "Occy" 44. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by "Occy" 45. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by "Occy" 46. Re: Cotton scrim vs synthetic scrim by "Occy" 47. Re: art by Dorian Kelly 48. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by Jim Hyslop 49. Re: Cotton scrim vs synthetic scrim by "Frank E. Merrill" 50. Re: Iggy Pop Ride by Greg Williams 51. Re: theater seat pans by "Frank E. Merrill" 52. Large drop cloths... by "Steve Jones" 53. Re: Large drop cloths... by "Frank E. Merrill" 54. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 55. Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 56. Re: Large drop cloths... by "Delbert Hall" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061113123504.017f5538 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:35:04 From: CB Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs >There is Posi-loc power connectors >where you do follow the manufacture's way of connecting your Posi-loc cams. *Shudder* Yeah, those are cute. New resort ballroom had those installed here as part of build. First show in and we didnt' have the posi-lik ends, and they didn't have the adaptors. Still makes it silly for an install where folks will have visitors coming in. I've not seen any travelling distro with the posi-lok, no travelling cables wiht posi-lock ends, and everywhere (other than that one instance) I've seen the posi-lok installed, I've seen the adaptors hanging off the panel. Yes, plugged in. This seems to have accomplished nothing more than defeating the spring loaded covers on the panel and exposing the ends to every Tom, Dick, and banquets server in teh service hallway. The posi-loks are defeatable, BTW, if you really have to. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061113124121.017f5538 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:41:21 From: CB Subject: RE: "Art" >What is it that you believe that the creator of "Nails in Wood Stuck to >Wall" is trying to convey to me, the viewer? What is some guy (that I have never met) trying to evoke in you (who I have also never met) with a piece (that I have never seen in an environment I know nothing about) of work taken out of the context of the rest of his body of work (which I have even less of a clue about)? I can do that if you can tell me how many fingers I'm holding up right now. >Everyone who's affected with this need to classify modern art seems to be >neatly avoiding the question! The answer is: The perceived quality of the work is not the acid test for whether it is art or not. It isn't even the test of whther it is good or not. The simple test for whether it is art or not, is that it is an attempt at expression. *EVEN A FAILED ATTEMPT IS ART!* We've said that, Tony. A lot. Once you accept that it can be art and you can still not like it, and that the converse is also true, you'll get it. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4558D17A.3060404 [at] gmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:11:38 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Organization: University of Delaware Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs References:

In-Reply-To: Jerry Durand wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > Choosing a frequency was a tradeoff between visible flicker and > transmission losses. Maybe on this side of the Pond people were more > concerned with flicker and over there they were more concerned with > losses? I'm sure it's in Tesla's and Westinghouse's notes, someplace. This is mentioned in passing in the book "Empires of Light" about the struggle between Edison (DC) & Westinghouse (AC). Westinghouse favored a much higher frequency but Tesla's polyphase AC motor would only work at 60Hz. Since success of AC as a power source depended on a reliable motor, Westinghouse had to shift to Tesla's frequency when they installed the system at Niagara Falls. Steve L. -- Stephen Litterst Technical Operations Supervisor litterst [at] udel.edu Center for the Arts 302/831-0601 University of Delaware ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Limbacher, Jon E." Subject: RE: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:56:44 -0600 These are really popular with consultants. If only they would specify some converter cables so the newly opened house doesn't have to front the 700-1200 out of the maintenance budget to buy them. Jon -----Original Message----- From: CB [mailto:psyd [at] cox.net] Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 6:35 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- >There is Posi-loc power connectors >where you do follow the manufacture's way of connecting your Posi-loc cams. *Shudder* Yeah, those are cute. New resort ballroom had those installed here as part of build. First show in and we didnt' have the posi-lik ends, and they didn't have the adaptors. Still makes it silly for an install where folks will have visitors coming in. I've not seen any travelling distro with the posi-lok, no travelling cables wiht posi-lock ends, and everywhere (other than that one instance) I've seen the posi-lok installed, I've seen the adaptors hanging off the panel. Yes, plugged in. This seems to have accomplished nothing more than defeating the spring loaded covers on the panel and exposing the ends to every Tom, Dick, and banquets server in teh service hallway. The posi-loks are defeatable, BTW, if you really have to. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061113125901.017f5538 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:59:01 From: CB Subject: RE: "Art" >Can you not meet me half-way and agree that there are some items out there >that just shouldn't be labelled as art??? Absolutely! I have said that there are scam artists (although, I hate that term, they are scam 'craftsmen'...) that will prey on those with more money than brains. they, like the insects that do away with decaying corpses and clear the dung off of the Serengeti, have thier purpose. It is not to express, or communicate, but to balance the distribution of wealth based on sme other Darwinian equation. That is neither here nor there. There are som things that are not to be labeled art. With this, I agree. Our contention, Tony, is the qualities which you propose to use to decide what lable they get. You propose that if you think it is smachinly good, we can all agree with you and call it art. If it is simple and stupid, we chould call it rubbish. While I'm sure this would make you all soft and warm inside, I'm afraid that some of us would rather have art defined in the way that it works, not in the way that you think we think it should work. Call uys stubborn in that way, but having spent most of my life appreciuating, making and helping others to make art, I'm a bit upset that there are quite a few of you and yours that would like to pass judgement on my life's work. I'm gonna have to say 'no' to that, but thanks for playing. So, here is a handy, simple guide to 'Art I Like', Art I Don't Like, and 'Not Art' for Tony: 'Art You Like' It appeals to you and has you feeling emotions that make you happy and warm and a bit in awe of how he used the blue over there, and the wonderful way that the strings harmonized and counter-pointed in rapid succesion. Gives you a little jiggly feeling, like the night before Christmas when you were a kid. May bring a joyful tear to your eye. You are left with the impression that the creator has some sort of genius, and maybe was touched by God. 'Art You Don't Like' You aren't attracted to it, and wouldn't want it in your house. No, you wouldn't want it wandering the streeets of your neghborhood after dark. You would prefer it stayed down by Hyde park, or even better, up to Sheffield! You really don't like the way that he put black on everything, and the nails are jsut too much! The feeling in your stomach is quite like the one that you had when you were called to the headmaster as a child. May bring a shiver of fear, or anger. You are left with the impression that the creator was touched. 'Not Art' None of the above. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:21:16 -0800 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061113121418.01f6ea98 [at] interstellar.com> References: At 04:35 AM 11/13/2006, CB wrote: >Yes, plugged in. This seems >to have accomplished nothing more than defeating the spring loaded covers >on the panel and exposing the ends to every Tom, Dick, and banquets server >in teh service hallway. I was in a venue north of here during the fire marshal walk-through and he went right past the live breaker box with the cover wide open, cables hanging out, which was assessable to the general public! Glad my name wasn't on any paperwork there! -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com 219 Oak Wood Way, Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061113130309.017f5538 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:03:09 From: CB Subject: RE: art >But are you telling me that if I (or in fact anyone) went to the local >Homebase, purchased a tin of brilliant white gloss paint, went to the local >museum and stuck it onto a plinth then that would constitute a work of >art...???? >I don't think so. True. It's not art because it isn't an act of expression. But you're getting closer.... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061113130943.017f5538 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:09:43 From: CB Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs >>I consider running single pole conductors, AKA Feeder, as a "qualified >>personnel only" type job. > >Actually, Qualified Personnel is a Code requirement: There's three of us. Now if we can just get two-thousand, four-hundred and eighty-seven more to agree, we won't have the issue of G&N turned backwards anymore. Where are the necessary qualifications described, and how is it enforced? Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <0162F4DF-42BC-437A-8A21-7D5815DE0013 [at] mac.com> From: "tomhull [at] mac.com" Subject: Foam question Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:39:01 -0600 Guys and Dolls, I am fabricating crown and chair moulding out of EPS foam. I am familiar with the usual foam coating products, but can you tell me what foam coating products that you use? I am going to eventually paint this with some wood tone so a smooth finish would be desired. Thanks in advance, Tom Hull Collin College ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4558D912.9010109 [at] peak.org> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:44:02 -0800 From: Pat Kight Subject: Re: "Art" References: In-Reply-To: CB wrote: > If you allow yourself to say that another artist's work is not art because > it doesn't appeal to your aesthetic, then you must allow others to decide > whether your work is artistic or not, simply based on their tastes. I > can't understand an artist that would think in this manner. I think that > there are some on this list that have fallen prey to the popular notion > that the term 'art' equates to something good, and anything that is not > 'good' is not 'art'. This simply isn't true. Yes. That. Exactly. -- Pat Kight kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4558D928.1080001 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:44:24 -0500 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs References: In-Reply-To: CB wrote: > anymore. Where are the necessary qualifications described, and how is it > enforced? Natural attrition of the incompetent? -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:51:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Foam question From: Stephen Rees Message-ID: In-Reply-To: The first part of the trick is to be sure that the foam is fairly high density. You will get a much better surface the denser the stock is. You might not need to apply any finish other than primer and paint if your hot-wire technique is good enough. Higher density also sands better if you need to do that as well. A thinned elastomeric material like Jaxsan 600 or Behr's heavy texture paint might work well to coat this. Steve Rees, TD SUNY-Fredonia On 11/13/06 3:39 PM, "tomhull [at] mac.com" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Guys and Dolls, > I am fabricating crown and chair moulding out of EPS foam. I am > familiar with the usual foam coating products, but can you tell me > what foam coating products that you use? I am going to eventually > paint this with some wood tone so a smooth finish would be desired. > > Thanks in advance, > Tom Hull > Collin College ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061113132427.017f5538 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:24:27 From: CB Subject: Re: art ><< A house painter who uses that same paint to colour wash a room may also >be named an artist... ... it doesn't make the wall he paints >a work of art either! >> > Interior designers pick colors to evoke >emotion. >I used to live in a house where the ceiling was plastered by someone who was >truly a master at his art. The strokes were even and created a pattern of >uniform all-white rainbow shapes This is technically a description of craft. I cringe when the term 'craft' is used to describe something and 'good, but less than art' and the term 'art' is applied to 'really good craft'. The fact that your plasterer was a master craftsmen is laudable, but the lack of expression as a motivation makes him a master at his craft, not an artist. Same with the house painter. The interior decorator is usually a great craftsman, but occasionally an artist. The fact that the interior decorator uses color to evoke calm might simply be the result of research provided by the paint manufacturer, or labled such in a swatch-book. It doesn't mean that interior decorators cannot be artists, or artistic, but their work is craft in far more than 99% of applications. There is quite a bit of craft that is of a higher quality of most art, and far more art that is of a lesser quality than most craft, (bicycle built from wire and hung from the ceiling as aprt of a piece of bicycle art as opposed to a craftsman that builds biclycles, I know which I want to ride) and we as craftspeople *AND* artists should start the trend toward bringing great craft up to where it deserves. Great craft serves as important a purpose as great art, but for some reason has had to sit at the kid's table for centuries. Art, whether great or not, has been sitting at a place of honor, and it is considered a compliment to 'poor, slow cousin Craft' to call him art when he does well. Craft, being smarter than most people take him for, is quietly insulted. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Subject: Dirty Dancing in London Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:55:48 -0800 Message-ID: <44FC1DD5E9E93D4F9D4C289DF28F7C3F1F94E5 [at] thinkwellsbs.ThinkWell.corp> From: "Michael Finney" How's *that* for a subject line? One of my partners in crime just read a review of the production of "Dirty Dancing" at the Aldwych in London which had some nice praise for Stephen Brims-Lewis's set. According to the review (in Variety, I think), the set includes: "a double revolve plus hydraulics to lift doors, walkways, and floors up and down through the stage floor". Sounds like fun - anybody out there seen it? Worked on it? Got photos? Know who built it? Tried Google and the on-line trades, but no joy (other than reviews and lots of offers to sell tickets, of course - and info that The Grey Circle did video projection apparently). Any information about the set/mechanics would just amuse the office no end and would be greatly appreciated. Either on-line or off-line is fine.... Thanks - we now return you the argument about art...except for the people who had mental images of Frank dancing the Lambada in a kilt when they read the subject line...*them* we return to the bar for additional "therapy"...of the 12 year old single malt variety.... (Sorry Frank! My legs wouldn't hold up to scrutiny in a kilt anymore either...) =20 Michael Finney Thinkwell Design & Production mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com www.thinkwelldesign.com =20 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061113132840.017f5538 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:28:40 From: CB Subject: Smoking ban >Discretion is the better part of Valor; those smokers who ignore this >fact could easily find their 'pariah lounges', as mentioned below, >will begin to resemble jail cells sooner rather than later. I dunno, all the jail cells in my neighborhood are 'no smoking' areas... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061113133440.017f5538 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:34:40 From: CB Subject: Re: Art >He also put really small wheels on his Austin-Healey Sprite so >the speedometer would read 100 miles an hour while he was doing the >speed limit. Was he real Art? No, a real artist would have put in a smaller gear on the speedo cable and saved the gas... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20061113211023.67620.qmail [at] web82803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:10:23 -0800 (PST) From: Subject: theater seat pans I am looking for a source for Hussey's Concordia seat pans. These seats are discontinued and my local dealer thought they had found some for me but it turns out that the ones they found are too old and not compatible with the style I have. If anybody knows of a large or small seat dealer that tends to have the old stuff in stock please send me their contact info. My dealer is still looking but I am getting tired of waiting. Thanks Ken Zinkl Auditorium Manager Fort Zumwalt South High School 636-281-0732 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061113134729.017f5538 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:47:29 From: CB Subject: Re: Statehouse Chandelier Falls Friday During Maintenance >>Just saw this article and thought that some people on this list might >>be interested. "The maintenance was the result of an inspection effort undertaken after a smaller chandelier crashed to the floor of the Missouri Senate almost three years ago." Apparently, showing them isn't as effective as they'd like you to think... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ From: "Tony Deeming" Subject: RE: "Art" Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:17:35 -0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I said... > >Can you not meet me half-way and agree that there are some items > out there > >that just shouldn't be labelled as art??? > > Absolutely! I have said that there are scam artists (although, I > hate that > term, they are scam 'craftsmen'...) that will prey on those with > more money > than brains. they, like the insects that do away with decaying > corpses and > clear the dung off of the Serengeti, have their purpose. It is not to > express, or communicate, but to balance the distribution of > wealth based on > sme other Darwinian equation. Hey! I'm getting somewhere then...! 8-)) > That is neither here nor there. But I beg to differ.... Because... > There are som things that are not to be labeled art. With this, I agree. You're actually now agreeing with my original basic principle. ie - that there are some works out there that are peddled by people with little talent for creating something with skill that just don't qualify as art. > Our contention, Tony, is the qualities which you propose to use to decide > what lable they get. You propose that if you think it is smachinly good, > we can all agree with you and call it art. No, not quite - I think you've misinterpreted me in a ways. As I've already said, I would agree entirely that there is "Art I like" and "Art I don't like" - that's not in contention. I just feel (and yep - it IS my opinion) that there are far more works hanging on gallery walls that are just so much twaddle. I can accept that there may be some which I may just not understand, and if the creator of such works were to explain the background of their piece, I might just be persuaded to change my opinion. They can do this by verbal description, or maybe written - even it 'twere just a short explanation on a plaque. But I wouldn't necessarily accept someone else's take on that work - because yes, different people may feel differently from me, or indeed the artist. But to say that if you need it explaining then you're unable to appreciate it is, quite frankly, a bit of a cop-out. > If it is simple and stupid, we chould call it rubbish. Not necessarily - that can depend entirely on the circumstances of the piece, and the creator. My wife teaches a class of 8 yr olds, and I therefore see the efforts of her pupils (as I have with my own daughters). I've also seen the results of the school's (and others from the area) in our local gallery. And I'm regularly impressed by the choices made by these kids, as well as the obvious (and maybe not-so-obvious) ideas behind their work. But as children they have a caveat in that (on the whole) their talent is raw and unchannelled. That raw talent, however, can be seen in many of their pictures and sculptures - just waiting to be honed as they grow. I just can't help feeling that some of the adult artists creating something no different from the random splashes of a kindergarten kid have maybe not grown as they maybe could have. > While I'm sure this would make you all soft and > warm inside, I'm afraid that some of us would rather have art defined in > the way that it works, not in the way that you think we think it should > work. I don't expect art to make me necessarily feel 'soft & warm', but I do expect it to speak to more than just a comparative handful of the populace (many of whom, in my experience have no real appreciation, and are plain and simple sycophants to the 'art world'). > Call uys stubborn in that way, but having spent most of my life > appreciuating, making and helping others to make art, I'm a bit upset that > there are quite a few of you and yours that would like to pass > judgement on > my life's work. I'm gonna have to say 'no' to that, but thanks > for playing. > So, here is a handy, simple guide to 'Art I Like', Art I Don't Like, and > 'Not Art' for Tony: > 'Art You Like' > It appeals to you and has you feeling emotions that make you > happy and warm > and a bit in awe of how he used the blue over there, and the wonderful way > that the strings harmonized and counter-pointed in rapid succesion. Gives > you a little jiggly feeling, like the night before Christmas when you were > a kid. May bring a joyful tear to your eye. You are left with the > impression that the creator has some sort of genius, and maybe was touched > by God. OK - I can go with that, as far as it goes.... > 'Art You Don't Like' > You aren't attracted to it, and wouldn't want it in your house. No, you > wouldn't want it wandering the streeets of your neghborhood after dark. > You would prefer it stayed down by Hyde park, or even better, up to > Sheffield! And to a point I'll go with this.... > You really don't like the way that he put black on everything, > and the nails are jsut too much! The feeling in your stomach is > quite like > the one that you had when you were called to the headmaster as a child. > May bring a shiver of fear, or anger. You are left with the impression > that the creator was touched. But this is where we part ways. What I feel when I look at a simple black square, or the timber & nails isn't disgust, fear, pain, or anything like that. So what do I feel? Disappointment, really. A sense of being cheated out of any REAL emotion. You're right that art should challenge the senses, the emotions, everything like that. But if all it does is leave me thinking that I'd just wasted an hour of my life wandering round exhibit after exhibit, then what exactly was the point? When I lasted went round a modern exhibition, at the Tate St Ives in Cornwall this Summer, I went in with an open mind - as I try to do with all things in this life. But I came out feeling very little at all. And I could tell from those other patrons around me that the same was being felt by many of them. And if anyone tries to say that it's OUR fault that we didn't get anything from the works, then I'd have to take serious offence. Because I firmly believe that for art to BE art it must speak to the masses, not just the pretentious few that CLAIM to understand it. You may very well be able to visit that gallery and look at the random splodges, asymmetric squares of colour or the wood & nails and say "Hey - I DO see what this guy's at". And if you did, then well, all credit to you. BUT to me, it does absolutely nothing, and as such, much of it comes under the category you succinctly described above as "There are som things that are not to be labeled art." it is THAT area of the industry that I feel so strongly about. And I'm afraid that so far, no-one's actually come close to giving me any just reason to change that belief. There have been several who've expounded about how art is and should be a true expression of the artist, and I can find little to disagree with there. But whilst expounding these definitions and viewpoints, I also feel that sometimes we can become blinkered to reality - in that if someone SAYS it's art, then art it must be. That is not necessarily true. > 'Not Art' > None of the above. And again, as a finale, I'll point up-top in this post to your own agreement that "There are som things that are not to be labeled art." There ARE things paraded as art that do not deserve to be. Whether they're paraded as a rebellion against the idiocy of some 'collectors' or just out of a lack of talent, it matters not. TD ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <4D3480FF-D48D-4083-8542-2EEFBBA051B1 [at] dopher.com> From: "C. Dopher" Subject: Re: Elevator doors. Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:28:51 -0500 Loren Schreiber wrote: > But if you are serious about it, you will > use specially trained hamsters to do the work. Simply drill some > holes half-way through a board the width of your doors. Place an > equal amount of Acme Happy Hamster Feed (TM) in each hole. (The more > feed, the slower the doors will open.) Tie a door to your hamster and > then, at the appropriate moment (the DING!--(see Chris Babbie)) let > the sucker loose, dragging the door behind him. Reverse and repeat > for the opposite door. To close the doors, simply refill the holes in > the board. I know, I know--Richard, Delbert and probably everyone > else on this list would do it differently--but then would it be art? > I think not! I don't know, Loren. Seems to me the hamsters would very quickly unionize. Then your feed costs would go skyrocket and you would have to have twice as many hamsters on staff. And god forbid your bell cue come when its time for their break. Cris Dopher /back to work, tech beings in 90 minutes. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20061113140800.017f5538 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:08:00 From: CB Subject: Re: Elevator Doors >Ah, who needs to spend $40 when you can just do it the way they did >in... As I recall, the door sound on the original 'Enterprise' was a simple recording of a mic being dragged over some corduroys or some such... Herrick? I know that one of the sounds used in the present incarnation of the 'Enterprise' doors is a basketball court-styled shoe squeak. Oh, and put down your drinks and food, and move anything fragile away from the keyboard. Take a deep breath and make sure that your door is closed and click here: Herrick, you'll need O2 standing by. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Subject: RE: "Art" Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:42:21 -0500 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A06BB0BEE [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> In-Reply-To: From: "Paul Schreiner" > I can do that if you can tell me how many fingers I'm holding=20 > up right now. Oooh! I'll guess "one". I'll even take a gander at which one... :) ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001101c7076d$bd861820$0200a8c0 [at] lpt> From: References: Subject: Re: where can i get... Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:50:30 -0600 Organization: Minnesota Ballet If getting snow to fall over the audience is hard because of catwalk positions you could take a look at a confetti spreader: http://www.theatrefx.com/store/commerce.cgi?product=continuous_effects I wanted it to snow in the audience last year for our Nutty Nutcracker, but the cost of the spreader was too much. Also the price of a snow machine was too high, and I was sure I'd get yelled at for all the "mess" I made with any plastic snow anyways. In the end, I went with cheap bubble machines from the FOH position. No mess and it worked out great! Total price for full audience bubble effect = $40 Kenneth Pogin Production Manager Minnesota Ballet ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:29:57 -0600 From: Kevin Holly Subject: Re: Foam question I have had good success with First Coat, US Gypsum's Sheetrock product. It works very well as a primer. Comes in 5 gallon buckets and available at the Home Center for about $35 or so. Kevin Holly Technical Theatre Coordinator Libertyville High School >Guys and Dolls, >I am fabricating crown and chair moulding out of EPS foam. I am >familiar with the usual foam coating products, but can you tell me >what foam coating products that you use? I am going to eventually >paint this with some wood tone so a smooth finish would be desired. > >Thanks in advance, >Tom Hull >Collin College ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4558F580.5070905 [at] fuse.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:45:20 -0500 From: Stuart Wheaton Reply-To: sdwheaton [at] fuse.net Subject: Re: Iggy Pop Ride References: In-Reply-To: CB wrote: >>> If it takes humor to get it read, so be it. Remember the brown M&Ms? >> Ahem. Blue M&Ms, please!!! > > I'll take the green ones! Pervert! 8-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:49:51 -0500 From: Josh Ratty Subject: RE: Statehouse Chandelier Falls Friday During Maintenance In-reply-to: Reply-to: josh.ratty [at] verizon.net Message-id: <001c01c70776$07a86400$6401a8c0 [at] Rattys> Geez, good thing these folks weren't the ones working on the big dig.... Josh "won't drive through those tunnels anymore" Ratty -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of CB Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:47 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Statehouse Chandelier Falls Friday During Maintenance For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- >>Just saw this article and thought that some people on this list might >>be interested. "The maintenance was the result of an inspection effort undertaken after a smaller chandelier crashed to the floor of the Missouri Senate almost three years ago." Apparently, showing them isn't as effective as they'd like you to think... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <53e.b35d448.328a515e [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:53:18 EST Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs In a message dated 13/11/06 19:37:00 GMT Standard Time, jdurand [at] interstellar.com writes: > >For curiosity, why did the US go for 60Hz? I suppose that it carries on the > >cycle, from hours to minutes to seconds to 60Hz. But I should like to know. > > Not sure, but since we invented AC power, the question would be why > you guys went with 50Hz. Yes, it would have been nice to have > everyone agree, but that never seems to happen. Not sure about that, either. Look up Sebastian Ziani de Ferranti. There was a major war about domestic power supply, between the low voltage DC party, led by Edison, and the high voltage AC outfit, lef by Westinghouse and Ferranti. The latter lost, and his huge power station at Deptford was a white elephant. But, while they lost the battle, they won the war. > > Choosing a frequency was a tradeoff between visible flicker and > transmission losses. Maybe on this side of the Pond people were more > concerned with flicker and over there they were more concerned with > losses? I'm sure it's in Tesla's and Westinghouse's notes, someplace. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20061113225350.77880.qmail [at] web82815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:53:50 -0800 (PST) From: Subject: Statehouse Chandelier Falls Friday During Maintenance Followup In-Reply-To: a small photo of the chandelier http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=107438 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:53:37 -0500 From: Greg Williams Subject: Re: Long Reach Long Rider news In-reply-to: Message-id: References: On Nov 12, 2006, at 8:37 PM, dansldme [at] comcast.net wrote: > Now I want to buy a motorcycle. And? Whatcha waitin' for? Are you going to wait until you're young enough to enjoy it? Go for it. Join us. Answer that voice whispering in your head... no, no, not _those_ voices, the _other_ one, the one telling you it's _good_ to be a Long Rider. -=Greg Williams=- Production Manager Valborg Theatre, Appalachian State University www.LRLR.org - 2007 Ride - NY, Ottawa, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine July 29th - August 6th ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:06:28 EST Subject: Re: "Art" In a message dated 13/11/06 19:48:52 GMT Standard Time, psyd [at] cox.net writes: > If you allow yourself to say that another artist's work is not art because > it doesn't appeal to your aesthetic, then you must allow others to decide > whether your work is artistic or not, simply based on their tastes. Fair enough. Coming slightly back on topic, I have seen work by well-respected lighting tesigners to which I should not have subscribed my name. I thought it absolute crap. If the designer in question, or one of his admirers, wants to argue its merits, I shall listen, and respond. But I shall need a lot of convincing to change my view. Frank Wood ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <63BF3A94-E3D4-4E43-83DF-1381C8DFB820 [at] aol.com> From: KEITH ARSENAULT Subject: shameless but warranted plug Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:09:04 -0600 Stagecraft list friends, I just finished another "mini tour" of my show CIRCUS NEXUS, We played Jesse Auditorium at the U of MO, , an early 50's gymnasium in Hazard KY ( that was interesting ! ) Shryock Auditorium at Southern Illinois University and Braden Auditorium at Illinois State University. I have to say that the staffs and crews at all of those venues were uniformly wonderful. Everyone was as prepared as one could expect for our arrivals, Chris at the U of MO, Seth at SIU and Chuck at ISU did great jobs. Additionally the tech services contracted from Pro Video for the Hazard gig, , who knew they were bringing in a line array system for our "little" show ! Many thanks to all Also, special thanks for the services and good consul of Tracy Nunnally of Hall Associates Flying Effects, the gear they provided and the wonderful services of their flying director assigned to the production Bill Auld. ( that boy is funny ! ) Great work, It's nice to have a "public" forum like this to give out some "attaboys" hope that no one is offended by the band width, but I really felt I needed to thank some folks. Keith L Arsenault International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida www.iaeginc.com 813 831 3465 office 813 205 0893 cellular iaeg [at] aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Tony Deeming" Subject: RE: "Art" Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:11:51 -0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > > I can do that if you can tell me how many fingers I'm holding > > up right now. > > Oooh! I'll guess "one". > > I'll even take a gander at which one... :) > I was sorta thinking that myself....! 8-))) ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20061113232437.50196.qmail [at] web55215.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:24:37 -0800 (PST) From: Jo Vandver Subject: Membership Drive Question In-Reply-To: Hey, Do any of you have any ideas on fun ways or interesting ways to get new members/volunteers for our first annual Membership Drive? Thanks! Jo Vandver Liberty County Playhouse Cleveland Tx ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <1AC46C4E-8E7B-4E5A-8646-7297EBE45F7B [at] aol.com> From: KEITH ARSENAULT Subject: Re: Membership Drive Question Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:27:22 -0600 always refer to the manual of all manuals, , "SUBSCRIBE NOW! " BY DANNY NEWMAN, available on Amazon, , or theatre book stores online, ,etc,.,, On Nov 13, 2006, at 5:24 PM, Jo Vandver wrote: Hey, Do any of you have any ideas on fun ways or interesting ways to get new members/volunteers for our first annual Membership Drive? Thanks! Jo Vandver Liberty County Playhouse Cleveland Tx Keith L Arsenault International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida www.iaeginc.com 813 831 3465 office 813 205 0893 cellular iaeg [at] aol.com ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:33:47 GMT Subject: Re: Membership Drive Question Message-Id: <20061113.153436.15735.742943 [at] webmail30.lax.untd.com> I Concur. /s/ Richard ___________________ always refer to the manual of all manuals, , "SUBSCRIBE NOW! " BY DANNY NEWMAN, available on Amazon, , or theatre book stores online, ,etc,.,, ________________________________ Hey, Do any of you have any ideas on fun ways or interesting ways to get new members/volunteers for our first annual Membership Drive? Thanks! Jo Vandver Liberty County Playhouse Cleveland Tx ------------------------------ Message-ID: <455925DA.2090708 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:11:38 -0500 From: Dale farmer Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs References: In-Reply-To: Greg Persinger wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Occy, > > Kevin is correct from a NEC standpoint I believe he is dead wrong from a > practical working standpoint. > > Although after you make a ground connection you can connect the hot legs > before connecting the neutral, this is a good way to damage equipment. > > True you should never connect Camloks under load and ideally the feeder > shouldn't be energized, there are those times when it can't or isn't done > this way and a breaker or two has been missed and is on when the feeder is > connected. > > Because dimmer racks and distros have a common neutral bar if no neutral is > connected and the hot legs are connected and there are two breakers on > different phases turned on, the equipment connected to those breakers will > see roughly a 208 volt potential through the neutral bar. This can fry the > gear. > > You must have a neutral connected before you connect the hot legs to > eliminate the potential for damage. > > Granted this is an extreme case but it is the extreme cases that are the > ones that cause problems not the times you are working under ideal > conditions. > > Greg Persinger > This is called a floating neutral, and is a common cause for electrical fires in residences. In those cases, it is usually caused by corrosion finally eating through the ground rod after a less than top notch installation job forty or fifty years ago. A rather dangerous condition, as it will, depending on the moment to moment electrical load on each hot leg, cause wild voltage swings. Burns up motors, kills electronics, and starts fires. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45592845.5030708 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:21:57 -0500 From: Dale farmer Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs References: In-Reply-To: CB wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >> There is Posi-loc power connectors >> where you do follow the manufacture's way of connecting your Posi-loc cams. > > *Shudder* Yeah, those are cute. New resort ballroom had those installed > here as part of build. First show in and we didnt' have the posi-lik ends, > and they didn't have the adaptors. Still makes it silly for an install > where folks will have visitors coming in. I've not seen any travelling > distro with the posi-lok, no travelling cables wiht posi-lock ends, and > everywhere (other than that one instance) I've seen the posi-lok installed, > I've seen the adaptors hanging off the panel. Yes, plugged in. This seems > to have accomplished nothing more than defeating the spring loaded covers > on the panel and exposing the ends to every Tom, Dick, and banquets server > in teh service hallway. > The posi-loks are defeatable, BTW, if you really have to. > Chris "Chris" Babbie > Location Sound > MON AZ > > Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates > negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... > > > One of the hotels here in Boston has posiloks in it's ballrooms. (six sets of them, one for each subdividable portion. ) I was chatting with the hotel engineering guy about how they have been performing. He was not happy with them. They broke a lot, and the whole thing has to be replaced as repair parts are unobtanium. Expensive ongoing maintainance. Also problems with visiting AV and lighting companies taking the posilok to cam adapters away with them. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45592B99.5030300 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:36:09 -0500 From: Dale farmer Subject: Re: Iggy Pop Ride References:

In-Reply-To: Stuart Wheaton wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > CB wrote: > >>>> If it takes humor to get it read, so be it. Remember the brown M&Ms? >>> Ahem. Blue M&Ms, please!!! >> >> I'll take the green ones! > > > Pervert! > > 8-) > > > > > You know, you can go to the M&Ms web site and order up custom mixes, choosing from the twenty or so colors available. They also have different flavors available. With your own text printed on them. All, of course, at a suitably premium price. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20061113210142.02018d58 [at] mail.DesignRelief.com> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:23:46 -0600 From: Mitch Hefter Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs In-Reply-To: References: Ken Romaine wrote: >The voltages on the "wild leg" services that I've encountered are just >the reverse of what you mention. In my experience, the voltages are: >240V between any two hots >120V between hot "A" and neutral >120V between hot "B" and neutral >208V between hot "C" and neutral >My understanding is that this system, being 3-phase delta, is an >efficient way to provide power to a facility with large, 3-phase >motors, and still, with the center-tap neutral, provide 120V for other >uses in the facility. Ken - you have it correct. The A, B, and C designations are arbitrary. The example in the link below uses a different convention than above. The 2005 NEC states: ---- 110.15 High-Leg Marking On a 4-wire, delta-connected system where the midpoint of one phase winding is grounded, only the conductor or busbar having the higher phase voltage to ground shall be durably and permanently marked by an outer finish that is orange in color or by other effective means. Such identification shall be placed at each point on the system where a connection is made if the grounded conductor is also present. ---- Note - orange is the requirement. As for a reference drawing that Frank Wood noted I posted a while back, here is the URL again: http://tinyurl.com/y5dslc As for sequence of connections, Greg Persinger wrote: >Occy, > >Kevin is correct from a NEC standpoint I believe he is dead wrong from a >practical working standpoint. > >Although after you make a ground connection you can connect the hot legs >before connecting the neutral, this is a good way to damage equipment. Sorry Greg - you're not quite right on the NEC rule here. The 2002 and 2005 NEC state: ---- 520.53(K) Single-Pole Separable Connectors. Where single-pole portable cable connectors are used, they shall be listed and of the locking type. The use of single-pole separable connectors shall comply with at least one of the following conditions: (1) Connection and disconnection of connectors are only possible where the supply connectors are interlocked to the source and it is not possible to connect or disconnect connectors when the supply is energized. (2) Line connectors are of the listed sequential-interlocking type so that load connectors shall be connected in the following sequence: a. Equipment grounding conductor connection b. Grounded circuit conductor connection, if provided c. Ungrounded conductor connection, and that disconnection shall be in the reverse order (3) A caution notice shall be provided adjacent to the line connectors indicating that plug connection shall be in the following order: a. Equipment grounding conductor connectors b. Grounded circuit conductor connectors, if provided c. Ungrounded conductor connectors, and that disconnection shall be in the reverse order ---- Folks - please check your Code books - many if not most of the answers are there. . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------ Mitch Hefter Member NEC Panel 15 Office: Entertainment Technology, a Genlyte Company mhefter [at] genlytecontrols.com +1-214/ 647-7880 x 7967 http://www.etdimming.com :: http://www.vari-lite.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:06:00 -0800 Ken you nailed it, in what I have worked with, yes I have had to deal with wild legs, a few times one was a production plant that I was the electrician for and the first one I had ever dealt with. I the wild leg was on the old plant which retired but all the offices was on that service, yes I had to pay very close attention on where I pulled power for the new things, the 480 system or the wild leg system. I was told by very old and respected electrician [ if he was still with us he would make the 100 year mark ] the reason the for the wild leg system in the 50's and 60's, was 2 fold and for the most part used in restaurants and some industrial buildings; is that you had 3 phase for HVAC, hot water heaters, garbage disposals, dish washers, and any thing else that needed 3 phase in those days. The second advantage was for simple things that needed 208-240 single phase like toasters, freezers, refrigerators and general lighting, as it save you breaker/fuse space in your panel board; as it took only 1 slot in your panel board for 208-240 instead of 2 slots; and in those days you would just grabs the closes neutral to do the job. And with only one service the the venue. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Romaine" > --------------------------------------------------- > > Greg: > > The voltages on the "wild leg" services that I've encountered are just > the reverse of what you mention. In my experience, the voltages are: > 240V between any two hots > 120V between hot "A" and neutral > 120V between hot "B" and neutral > 208V between hot "C" and neutral > My understanding is that this system, being 3-phase delta, is an > efficient way to provide power to a facility with large, 3-phase > motors, and still, with the center-tap neutral, provide 120V for other > uses in the facility. > > Note to Frank: > Get over it. This is one of the ways it is on this side of the pond. > -- > Ken Romaine > Business Development Manager > Barco Media & Entertainment > The opinions expressed here are mine - all mine - no matter how > much I want to impose them on the rest of the world. > > On 11/13/06, Greg Persinger wrote: > > > > In the USA the wild leg is typically the middle phase and is marked > > orange > > on the wiring and will give you 240 Volts between orange and neutral, > > while > > you get 208 Volts between black and blue and 120 volts between black and > > neutral or blue and neutral. > < snip > > > Greg Persinger > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References: Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:14:50 -0800 Guys! WE can't even agree on a single color code system/chart for electrical cable lengths; yes that includes sound cables too as the carry electricity too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "CB" > --------------------------------------------------- > > >>I consider running single pole conductors, AKA Feeder, as a "qualified > >>personnel only" type job. > > > >Actually, Qualified Personnel is a Code requirement: > > There's three of us. Now if we can just get two-thousand, four-hundred > and > eighty-seven more to agree, we won't have the issue of G&N turned > backwards > anymore. Where are the necessary qualifications described, and how is it > enforced? > Chris "Chris" Babbie > Location Sound > MON AZ > > Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates > negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... > ------------------------------ Subject: Cotton scrim vs synthetic scrim Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:14:41 -0800 Message-ID: <88919A5358656649A9F6B8E5E8F7366164DC62 [at] globe-exchange.theglobetheatres.org> From: "Ben Thoron" Does anyone have any opinions or experience working with either of = Rosebrand's synthetic scrims? =20 Thanks- Ben =20 Ben Thoron | technical director | the old globe | 619-235-2260 | = 619-231-1037-fax | bthoron [at] theoldglobe.org=20 ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References: Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 23:34:39 -0800 One show, I had to deal with a Posi-loc system more once... After asking every rental and supplier in the area, no one had any, even to buy as I had budget to buy... I fix that problem my normal Cam-loc worked just fine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "CB" > --------------------------------------------------- > > >There is Posi-loc power connectors > >where you do follow the manufacture's way of connecting your Posi-loc > >cams. > > *Shudder* Yeah, those are cute. New resort ballroom had those installed > here as part of build. First show in and we didnt' have the posi-lik > ends, > and they didn't have the adaptors. Still makes it silly for an install > where folks will have visitors coming in. I've not seen any travelling > distro with the posi-lok, no travelling cables wiht posi-lock ends, and > everywhere (other than that one instance) I've seen the posi-lok > installed, > I've seen the adaptors hanging off the panel. Yes, plugged in. This > seems > to have accomplished nothing more than defeating the spring loaded covers > on the panel and exposing the ends to every Tom, Dick, and banquets server > in teh service hallway. > The posi-loks are defeatable, BTW, if you really have to. > Chris "Chris" Babbie > Location Sound > MON AZ > > Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates > negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References: Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:44:33 -0800 Richard, The only time that all the transformers/services are "balanced" in a venue is when we give the plans the plans checker and it's built and it is inspected. After that "I power here, I have power there". Only time I worry about balancing a transformer is when I start getting over 300 amps on a star/delta transformer in single phase. Most of the time not much can be done to bring it semi close. Nice thing about most of live entertainment it's only a few hours. But I have never lost any xmers ever except for being flooded. ----- Original Message ----- From: --------------------------------------------------- Normally, the phase imbalance occurs following the 34,500 to 4800 volt or the 4800 to 120/208 volt 3phase step-down transformers that have huge 240volt 1phase loads on them at places where the electrician or electrical engineer failed to use the right taps (120- 240) when hooking up the transformer in the parking lot or in the vault next to the building with the very heavy load. We apparently care more about balancing loads than our brethren in Manufacturing. /s/ Richard _____________________________ ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:56:13 -0800 I get tested at least once a week From Mike Holt, I even pass his Hospital power quizzes. But like Mitch says "check you code books", and you never had to deal with MSHA, another code book. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitch Hefter" > > Sorry Greg - you're not quite right on the NEC rule here. The 2002 and > 2005 NEC state: > ---- > 520.53(K) Single-Pole Separable Connectors. > Where single-pole portable cable connectors are used, they shall be listed > and of the locking type. The use of single-pole separable > connectors shall comply with at least one of the following conditions: > (1) Connection and disconnection of connectors are only possible where > the supply connectors are interlocked to the source and it is not possible > to connect or disconnect connectors when the supply is energized. > (2) Line connectors are of the listed sequential-interlocking type so > that load connectors shall be connected in the following sequence: > a. Equipment grounding conductor connection > b. Grounded circuit conductor connection, if provided > c. Ungrounded conductor connection, and that disconnection shall be > in the reverse order > (3) A caution notice shall be provided adjacent to the line connectors > indicating that plug connection shall be in the following order: > a. Equipment grounding conductor connectors > b. Grounded circuit conductor connectors, if provided > c. Ungrounded conductor connectors, and that disconnection shall be > in the reverse order > ---- > > Folks - please check your Code books - many if not most of the answers are > there. > > > . . . > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Mitch Hefter Member NEC Panel 15 > > Office: Entertainment Technology, a Genlyte Company > mhefter [at] genlytecontrols.com +1-214/ 647-7880 x 7967 > http://www.etdimming.com :: http://www.vari-lite.com > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References: Subject: Re: Cotton scrim vs synthetic scrim Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:15:07 -0800 They are very nice and crisp. But very very fragile. To keep extra charges down, give everyone gloves. Share that with your management. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Thoron" --------------------------------------------------- Does anyone have any opinions or experience working with either of Rosebrand's synthetic scrims? Thanks- Ben Ben Thoron | technical director | the old globe | 619-235-2260 | 619-231-1037-fax | bthoron [at] theoldglobe.org ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:56:20 +0000 From: Dorian Kelly Subject: Re: art >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >Let's try it again with this definition: > >"Art is something intentionally created with the purpose of causing an >emotional response." > >Kristi R-C > or maybe try this for size: "Arts is something that directly influences the way we think, feel or react without having to go through any kind of intellectual process.' Dorian ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4559B7E8.8020706 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 07:34:48 -0500 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs References:

In-Reply-To: Mitch Hefter wrote: > As for a reference drawing that Frank Wood noted I posted a while back, > here is the URL again: > http://tinyurl.com/y5dslc Ah, I've been struggling to figure out where the 208 volts came from - thanks for that. It makes sense now. (I'm not an electrician, I just like to understand these things). -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:33:41 -0500 From: "Frank E. Merrill" Reply-To: "Frank E. Merrill" Message-ID: <695474475.20061114093341 [at] tcon.net> Subject: Re: Cotton scrim vs synthetic scrim In-Reply-To: References: Howdy ! Tuesday, November 14, 2006, Ben Thoron wrote: > Does anyone have any opinions or experience working with either of > Rosebrand's synthetic scrims? I've worked with a lot of sharkstooth scrim from various finishers and as a matter of fact, I DO have opinions....imagine that! First, I prefer synthetic scrim over 100% cotton scrim because the synthetic doesn't get wrinkled in storage and shipment nearly as much as cotton, and since cutting and sewing ANY scrim is a very tedious task, anything that minimizes wrinkles is a definite plus. On the other hand, however, the flameproofing and sizing added to cotton scrim makes it a little more stiff than synthetic, and the stiffness makes the cutting a bit easier...but it is still very tedious. Gather around, little ones, and Grandpa Frank will tell you another story.... Raw scrim fabric is a knitted, not woven, fabric and as such is very "stretchy" which automatically makes it difficult to create a straight edge. The sharkstooth pattern creates li'l rectangular "boxes" about 1/16" x 1/8". I'm simple enough to believe that if you have the same number of those li'l "boxes" of fabric 'twixt top and bottom between the stage left and stage right edges of the scrim, the top and bottom edges will be parallel to each other. Um...You, back there in the third row: Wake up...you're missing some of the details here! Our solution is to cut the individual threads that separate one box from the next and it is a job that everybody around here loathes, but I'm at a loss to discover a more efficient way to get the needed accuracy. From=20what I get from some of the mills, I'm guessing they must cut the fabric from the bale by tying a rope around it, cinching it up tight, and whacking it off with a machete because what I get always has a jagged edge that must be squared up before use. Fortunately, the mills usually send a bit more fabric than I order and I've only rarely come up short. I know that If I were in the business of selling scrim only as raw goods it would be cheaper for me to give the customer extra yardage than to pay an employee for the hours it takes to cut the fabric carefully. Okay, children. Story time is over. Second, I suppose the inherent flameproof characteristics of synthetic scrim gives another check mark of approval over treated cotton. In practice, however, I believe flameproofing is not an issue because the fabric is so fragile and onstage accidents so frequent that the scrim will be destroyed before the flameproofing characteristics will fail. Finally, I don't think it matters much from whom you buy raw scrim fabric because, the last time I looked, there are only two looms on the planet that are large enough to create the fabric. One is in Canada and the other is in Switzerland, but I admit I haven't checked up on that for several years. That said, any scrim fabric you buy comes from one of them. The difference is in the processing and not in the fabric. Best regards, Frank E. Merrill MERRILL STAGE EQUIPMENT Indianapolis Established 1946 www.merrillstage.com=20 Running THE BAT! Natural e-mail system v.3.85.03 mailto:Lamplig= hter [at] tcon.net =20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:00:13 -0500 From: Greg Williams Subject: Re: Iggy Pop Ride In-reply-to: Message-id: <9285DBEC-29DE-4E3D-BA2B-46E9EC138AAD [at] appstate.edu> References:

On Nov 13, 2006, at 9:36 PM, Dale farmer wrote: > You know, you can go to the M&Ms web site and order up custom > mixes, choosing from the twenty or so colors available. They also > have different flavors available. With your own text printed on > them. All, of course, at a suitably premium price. > > --Dale Dale, Thanks for the great idea! -=Greg Williams=- Long Reach Long Riders Promo Item Wrangler ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:58:03 -0500 From: "Frank E. Merrill" Reply-To: "Frank E. Merrill" Message-ID: <346577216.20061114095803 [at] tcon.net> Subject: Re: theater seat pans In-Reply-To: References: Howdy ! Monday, November 13, 2006, Ken Zinkl wrote: > If anybody knows of a large or small seat dealer that tends to have > the old stuff in stock please send me their contact info. I called my friend Frank Sumner of Preferred Seating here in Indy and passed along Ken's query. Frank finds good success in refurbishing theatre seats for re-install or re-location, and is very likely to have a successful solution. Note to Ken: I passed your phone number to Frank. Expect to hear from him soon. Let me know if you don't, please. Best regards, Frank E. Merrill MERRILL STAGE EQUIPMENT Indianapolis Established 1946 www.merrillstage.com Running THE BAT! Natural e-mail system v.3.85.03 mailto:Lamplighter [at] tcon.net ------------------------------ From: "Steve Jones" Subject: Large drop cloths... Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:14:59 -0600 Message-ID: <004301c70810$6ab73900$6501a8c0 [at] plazadirector> In-Reply-To: I need to find a supplier of large drop cloths / single pieces of light/medium weight fabric for use in "scenic swagging". I would like at least 20'x20' - but bigger would be better - up to 60'x60' or so. Also exploring using clear poly drop cloths. Anyone done "artistic" swagging and lighting of such? Any suggestions where I should look for such a beastie? Thanks! Steve ************************************* Steve Jones, Director Plaza Theatre 115 E. Main Street Glasgow, KY 42141 Voice: (270) 361-2101 Fax: (270) 834-8147 http://www.glasgowplazatheatre.org DIAMOND RIO Nov. 16, 7PM -- $45, $35 & $30 THE RAT PACK Jan. 19, 7PM -- $30, $25 & $20 SAM BUSH Feb. 3, 7PM -- $25, $20, $15 CRAIG MORGAN Mar. 16, 7PM -- $40, $30 & $20 PRESERVATION HALL JAZZ BAND May 11, 7PM -- $30, $25 & $20 1964 THE TRIBUTE June 9, 7PM -- $30, $25 & $20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:48:33 -0500 From: "Frank E. Merrill" Reply-To: "Frank E. Merrill" Message-ID: <1917132225.20061114124833 [at] tcon.net> Subject: Re: Large drop cloths... In-Reply-To: References: Howdy ! Tuesday, November 14, 2006, Steve Jones wrote: > I need to find a supplier of large drop cloths / single pieces of > light/medium weight fabric for use in "scenic swagging". I would like at > least 20'x20' - but bigger would be better - up to 60'x60' or so. Scenery muslin is available up to something between 35 and 36 feet wide. It SAYS 36 feet wide in the catalogue but the stuff shrinks a bit in the processing... I don't carry it in stock. It isn't really FABRIC, but R-V stores sell the laminated plastic/mystery-fiber tarpaulins for covering Motor Homes. I've seen tarps 60 feet square. Best regards, Frank E. Merrill MERRILL STAGE EQUIPMENT Indianapolis Established 1946 www.merrillstage.com Running THE BAT! Natural e-mail system v.3.85.03 mailto:Lamplighter [at] tcon.net ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:21:31 EST Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs In a message dated 14/11/06 02:12:12 GMT Standard Time, dale [at] cybercom.net writes: > This is called a floating neutral, and is a common cause for > electrical fires in residences. In those cases, it is usually caused > by corrosion finally eating through the ground rod after a less than top > notch installation job forty or fifty years ago. A rather dangerous > condition, as it will, depending on the moment to moment electrical load > on each hot leg, cause wild voltage swings. Burns up motors, kills > electronics, and starts fires. Wait one! With the most usual star distribution, the neutral is connected to the centre point of the star, and grounded at the sub-station. You get four wires for three-phase, and two for single-phase. The ground rod is there purely to handle live-to-case faults, and a poor connection may well endanger your life. I remember making fish soup in a friend's house in France. Each time I added a fish to the pot on the cooker, it bit me. When I checked it out all the earths were neatly connected to the bus-bar. Except one: the earth rod wasn't there! This was fixed the following day. But it made no difference to the proper working of anything. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 13:49:52 EST Subject: Re: reversing ground and neutral in power cable runs In a message dated 14/11/06 08:45:11 GMT Standard Time, OneOccy [at] hotmail.com writes: > Normally, the phase imbalance occurs following the 34,500 to 4800 > volt or the 4800 to 120/208 volt 3phase step-down transformers that > have huge 240volt 1phase loads on them at places where the > electrician or electrical engineer failed to use the right taps (120- > 240) when hooking up the transformer in the parking lot or in the > vault next to the building with the very heavy load. We apparently > care more about balancing loads than our brethren in Manufacturing. Possibly because it is sometimes more difficult for us. At design time, the premises lighting and heating loads can be worked out, and reasonably balanced, but what can you do with a stage lighting load? You spread the dimmers over all three phases, OK. But we have an adaptable theatre. One show may want everything over the pros stage, and the next, nothing. When I wrote a program to pull the paperwork off the drawing, I added in a feature which would tell me the phase balance, and flag an alarm if one phase was in danger of overload. It only did it once, but it was worth the trouble. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 14:41:11 -0500 From: "Delbert Hall" Cc: Lamplighter [at] tcon.net (Frank E. Merrill) Subject: Re: Large drop cloths... In-Reply-To: References:

Steve, When I was in grad school at UNC-G we did a production of Hamlet where the scenic designer used black plactic sheeting (purchased in large rolls) to create draperies (legs and a cyc) for the show. These were behind the set and created an interesting effect. I do not think this would have worked as well by itself, but it fit well with the rest of the set. -Delbert -- Delbert L. Hall ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre 423-773-4255 ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #1019 ******************************