Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 40674711; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 03:01:15 -0800 X-List-Processed: mail.prxy.net X-ListMember: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 40674710; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 03:01:15 -0800 X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL,BAYES_50, MISSING_SUBJECT,NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS,OBSCURED_EMAIL,SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID, TO_CC_NONE autolearn=no version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on localhost X-Spam-Level: X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: List-Archive: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #1072 Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 03:00:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #1072 1. Re: OT: First-aid & liability by "Steven Santos" 2. Re: Altman 360Q by Steve Bailey 3. MD 288 Dimmers/Re-introduction of myself by Al Fitch 4. Re: Semi OT: New first aid stuff by Clive Mitchell 5. Re: OT: First-aid & liability by Clive Mitchell 6. Re: OT: First-aid & liability by Clive Mitchell 7. Re: Semi OT: New first aid stuff by Jerry Durand 8. Re: OT: First-aid & liability by Clive Mitchell 9. Re: OT: First-aid & liability by Mick Alderson 10. Re: OT: First-aid & liability by CB 11. Re: Semi OT: New first aid stuff by Dale farmer 12. first aid stuff by CB 13. Re: OT: First-aid & liability by CB 14. Re: Another job listing by CB 15. Re: OT: First-aid & liability by CB 16. new ideas for the stage tech olympics... by CB 17. Personal responsibility by Stephen Lee 18. St. Thomas: any members? by "Scott Parker" 19. Re: OT: First-aid & liability by Clive Mitchell 20. Cool Panorama by John Huntington 21. Re: OT: First-aid & liability by "RD" 22. Re: Old science books by "Steve Vanciel" 23. Re: Semi OT: New first aid stuff by "Occy" 24. Re: OT: First-aid & liability by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 25. Re: first aid stuff by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 26. Re: OT: First-aid & liability by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 27. Re: OT: First-aid & liability by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 28. Re: MD 288 Dimmers/Re-introduction of myself by Steve Bailey 29. Re: MD 288 Dimmers/Re-introduction of myself by Steve Bailey 30. OT Dinner in the Sky by MissWisc [at] aol.com 31. Re: Semi OT: New first aid stuff by "Bill Nelson" 32. Re: OT: First-aid & liability by "Bill Nelson" 33. Re: Altman 360Q by "Bill Nelson" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steven Santos" Subject: RE: OT: First-aid & liability Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:44:50 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > > Liability is low. SAED's and AED's are only used on dead people. > > That's a bit of an exaggeration. When a person goes into ventricular > fibrillation, they are not dead. But they will be in a very short time > unless a somewhat coordinated heartbeat is restored. Bill, Their are a number of definitions of dead used in the medical world, the two primary ones (but not the only ones) being 'clinically dead' and 'biologically dead'. Clinically dead is when any condition exists that causes the system to no longer be able to sustain itself. Clinical death will lead to biological death (the state you are referring to, where the biological systems have stopped functioning) if not corrected. The line between clinical and biological death is a very grey area, partly because medical tech is constantly changing where the line is. When a patient enters ventricular fibrillation, they are clinically dead. AED's are an intervention for trying to keep that clinical death from becoming biologically dead by sending a phased electrical pulse (single phase pulse, bi-phase pulse, biphasic shaped pulse, the newer tri phasic pulses, etc) through the heart in an attempt to get the heart to quiet itself long enough for the SI node (or one of the other pace maker nodes in the heart) to begin sending a pace maker pulse through the heart nodes, essentually restarting the heart (yes, this is not 100% accurate, but close enough for anyone without advanced SAED or MED training. If you want to go into further detail on how AED's work, I will be happy to do so off list). Again, this is one of the big reasons that liability is low with AED's, its being used on a dead person. Oh, here is another interesting little fact for you; roughly 18 percent of clinically dead patients later resuscitated will recall near-death experiences years after the event. >> Their are cases where people have been sued for having/using AED's >> (City of Boston vs John Hancock). > Could you provide the cite? A Google search in the phrase returns > nothing. Not everything is on google (yet). You will need to use Westlaw to get it, which I am sorry to say I no longer have (did the price on that ever go up...). Boston Globe did 3 or 4 stories on it when it went to hearing in the mid-1990's (1997?), though I don't remember if they sited the case name in the articles. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Steven Santos Director, Simply Circus, Inc. Email: Steven [at] SimplyCircus.com Mail: PO BOX 620753 Newton, MA 02462 Phone: 781-799-4938 eFax: 309-214-0899 Web: www.SimplyCircus.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <15134DE1EA20CF4BA1F473FADAC653AC5DAA71 [at] cassini.BrooklynCollege.local> From: Steve Bailey Subject: RE: Altman 360Q Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 11:26:04 -0500 _____ From: Danielle Maul [mailto:dmaulny [at] earthlink.net] Subject: Re: Altman 360Q >Does it help to say that when I started in 1977, in upstate New York, they were already prevalent in the business? (I'm PRETTY certain...) < I first encountered them in 1978-1979, but I know that Altman produced them earlier. A steel body 360Q version was in use at the Black Box Theater at SUNY Purchase at least as early as 1976-77 or so. These units were "approved equal" alternates to the Kliegl 1300 series ellipsoidals that had been spec'd. Nice units actually, lighter then the aluminum verions, though they got hot. I wonder of Purchase still has any around ?. One person who might know the actual release date (or close enough) is Tony Sklarew at Altman (I believe in rentals), who's been around there since the 70's Steve Bailey Brooklyn College begin 600 winmail.dat M>)\^(AP0`0:0"``$```````!``$``0>0! [at] `(````Y`0```````#H``$( [at] `<` M&````$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0 [at] 36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0F``0`A````-S4V-SA" M0T5%,49$-S,T-3E&0S5$1#4X0CA#,C8Y-C8`9``#!` M`0````D```!"04E,15E35``````#`!E``````!X`20`!````$````%)E.B!! M;'1M86X [at] ,S8P40!``$X``")QNO,LQP$"`5L``0```$$````````` [at] 2L?I+ZC M$!F=; [at] #=`0]4` [at] ````!$86YI96QL92!-875L`%--5%``9&UA=6QN>4!E87)T M:&QI;FLN;F5T`````!X`9 [at] `!````!0```%--5%``````' [at] !G``$````6```` M9&UA=6QN>4!E87)T:&QI;FLN;F5T````' [at] !:``$````.````1&%N:65L;&4 [at] M36%U;````!X`,D`!````% [at] ```&1M875L;GE`96%R=&AL:6YK+FYE=`````(! M7``!````&P```%--5%`Z1$U!54Q.64!%05)42$Q)3DLN3D54```#`!U````` M``(!7 [at] `!````00````````"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````$1A;FEE;&QE M($UA=6P`4TU44`!D;6%U;&YY0&5A`&D``0```!8```!D;6%U;&YY0&5A`%T``0````X```!$86YI96QL92!-875L````' [at] `S0`$````6````9&UA M=6QN>4!E87)T:&QI;FLN;F5T````` [at] %?``$````;````4TU44#I$34%53$Y9 M0$5!4E1(3$E.2RY.150```,`'D``````` [at] %Q``$````;`````<10"L MARW [at] 3^NF(6-L(GSL$``%2F<1`!X`=``!````"P```%-T86=E8W)A9G0```(! M"1`!````M`8``+`&``"[$ [at] ``3%I&=1"**!$#``H`$,8&-G`%`+"0%D,S818`NE-'( [at] $`(J7`ZR`9`.$#D`(#Q( M5$U,(&2(:7(](A!R/GTAT^<`(0,P(R%D;P# [at] (R$*L?Q<<1M [at] (R$0\`,P(X41 M8(TABS,A8"*`14%$(U`)(8PW-R)P5$E43(Y%)WTA4`[P4F4Z$7"7(A`# [at] B"Q M42>-.#4B<.XO*+\B( [at] KC("S/+=\.$`(V#O`\345402#'!:`",`GP=#TB!>`B MDP`V+C`P+C4W,X$R$#$Q(B!N80>``#U'14Y%4D%4_$]2)WTJ`2Q`)S\IT2\/ M!2(A-1% [at] /$)/1%E')WT [at] T39/9SDV(G!$0$E6(&ED/3J [at] 3PQ702HP"U!Y5&5X MV13 [at] -#4Z,"+O(```)(7_)2,DX25_.&\Y?SJ`/`\]'W,^*B&I-C1""CY?( [at] 0T M`C [at] B<$9/3E0 [at] 9I\`T#+P!Q,PT1L1/2,R`-5)$B``D'HR\#)!^Q [at] P_0,P8Q/P M`[(!T#X_(>8[T5\L0$>B(UDC9R8-."% [at] )C!N8G-P`H`C>"=A_P%`0]\B(0'` M(V<*HDY8"H#U(8PP)P$O.F%-KTZ_50__5A\_#T`?02]"/T-/(7T.(/\W [at] 3.1 M(W [at] *L0J!7K]:3UM;2$A2(`&126X!`'A8/2TQ2>P`4'$`X'$B: [at] Q [at] ;&1B`S!^ M(-Y?9U)G$20`"X!E4T-A?_]BCD1O17]&CT>9&B1)?TJ"?RP [at] 2S]/'3>07-MG M`7"G1FT#83ICC&`Q+W)*61D [at] 1D0`<`B0;&QE!=!A&6;0(%L`P`,0=&\ZAF0` MP&;0;GE`90K`)'1H9^%K+F [at] `=%W_7TTZ,6!L9^)H?W&/.!E/:'0=P20=T`' M0!X`863UH=!P' [at] !V!T`Q(:,BKG$X(&)U`)!H``00/R"`*$DG;2!04C" [at] O%19 M,-`$D`&0"X`NLG!^*:4?IB]V&IXO(A!063S_F+^-?Y?/JF^,E"PQEY&5/V^6 M3Y=>F>FBD&9<<**P(/L)\`6 [at] =3$!' [at] &N8K%PHS3V.&50HW`YHZ"PH`5`HI#X M:VYO!^"A\RIUKY`$<-\?8,%F>+%GX`20+K [at] ON3__ND^[7[QOO7^^CYG:,,"B ML)\)X`, [at] !N"O82KB('8$D/<`D`( [at] HC!AH.&CT1$PKP!+!4"P8D(+8&-KT'!O M/G [at] :$*$PI#$%P*(14U7Z3K' [at] 4`AP$/'/Y'1=Q$%(-2P.J#? M!T#=4:("$0"C$&()X:Q`\+ [at] .: [at] SM+/(7.CH'C [at] "&#SY9"N9&=OH1'H<.$OXC_? M41OH[^G_UPNBD'<"(`2!_]1P(^#2)Z*P`Q`#(-)AKP#?>("O``- [at] P1"C$#_% MC\:?O\>OR+_)S\K?R^^9RT]H`.^O [at] ,[QSS(:0"#FL.61PQ;_KO'DX^O/[-]1 M*AX`TN)W0.O?D*1!*`6Q8QL0S^$)\#WGPBDZD!H!`B"AT%-K_PM [at] ' [at] `'X,.8 ML4# [at] 8<5!SN!OHR(>``^PWZ$IHZ#Z42?_Y+# [at] <_#EKG&NX;#!Y$&P8OPW,`0` M\7_RC_.?]*_UO[?VS_??F=I3,1`"T4)WT?^ND`8_!T\(7PEO"G\+CPR?59G: M0O#P;P%`><000_M(L'_\3_U?M\\9#_\: M'R!/'#\=3QY?'V\ [at] ?R&/_R*?(Z\DOR7/)M^.KX^_,0^-*:(U1W&`T$]$62>M MAC+48(#`2%1-3)> [at] `GTXH!X`<``!````#````$%L=&UA;B`S-C!1`!X`1Q`! M````#P```&UE/Z]O M```#`/$_"00```,`_3_D!````P!V0/____\+`/(0`0```!X`\Q`!````% [at] `` M`%)%)3-!($%L=&UA;B`S-C!1+D5-3`````L`]A``````"P#T$``````+`/40 M``````(!1P`!````. [at] ```&,]55,[83T [at] .W`]0G)O;VML>6X [at] 0V]L;&5G93ML M/4-!4U-)3DDM,#0`````>`#A``0````D```!"04E,15E35``````" M`?L_`0```%,`````````W*=`R,!"$!JTN0 [at] `*R_A [at] [at] $`````````+T\]0E)/ M3TM,64X [at] 0T],3$5'12]/53U"0TY%5"]#3CU214-)4$E%3E13+T-./4)!24Q% M65-4```>`/H_`0````T```!3=&5V92!"86EL97D`````' [at] `Y0`$````)```` M0D%)3$594U0`````0``',+JY.WC`+<`!T.`0````P```!!;'1M86X [at] ,S8P40`>`#40`0```$<` M```\,34Q,S1$13%%03(P0T8T0D$Q1C0W,T9!1$%#-C4S04,U1$%!-S%`8V%S M`` [at] 0`0```&4```!& M4D]-.D1!3DE%3$Q%34%53$U!24Q43SI$34%53$Y90$5!4E1(3$E.2TY%5%-5 M0DI%0U0Z4D4Z04Q434%.,S8P441/15-)5$A%3%!43U-!651(05172$5.25-4 M05)4141)3C$Y``````(!?P`!````1P```#PQ-3$S-$1%,45!,C!#1C1"03%& M-# Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 08:31:47 -0800 (PST) From: Al Fitch Subject: MD 288 Dimmers/Re-introduction of myself In-Reply-To: Hello, I'm a former subscriber back again. I'm currently the TD for the Bendheim Performing Arts Center at the Jewish Community Center in Scarsdale, NY. I find myself having to do a lot of reserach on dimming systems because the current system is old and I have heard some stories about its operational quirks. We have the MD288 Dimmer system by I think Litetronics? So far I haven't experienced any failures but we do have a problem with houselights not going out 100%. Could this be caused simply by dirty dimmers? If so, my knowledge about cleaning dimmers is limited to what I recall doing once. We blew the dimmers off with compressed air at a low setting on a portable air compressor. is this accepted practice? How do these dimmers rate as far as overall serviceability and reliability in your experience? Happy New Year. Al Fitch Be Kind, Smile and Have Fun. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 16:50:56 +0000 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: Semi OT: New first aid stuff References:

In-Reply-To: In message , RD writes >In my tours of about 100 facilities this last year I saw AED's and >asked teachers and others if they knew what to do. 87% said that they >were? Going to be instructed as to what to do. Long way to go. Doom That's not so great, but at least the units are almost self explanatory in operation. At http://www.aedprofessionals.com/ they list a range of demonstrator units if you scroll down the page. Could this be one of those things where interested individuals end up looking the mysterious device up on the 'net and download it's manual themselves? -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <$lsGF1BEtTmFFwKM [at] ntlworld.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 16:48:04 +0000 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: OT: First-aid & liability References:

In-Reply-To: In message , Bill Nelson writes >That's a bit of an exaggeration. When a person goes into ventricular >fibrillation, they are not dead. But they will be in a very short time >unless a somewhat coordinated heartbeat is restored. The units don't just indiscriminately blast the heart. They will ONLY attempt defibrillation if it is needed and only at the most suitable moment in what's left of the heartbeat. Technically speaking they will only operate if the persons heart is not in a functional state, so that's probably as good as dead as you get. Even if the heart IS still working, they will provide useful information to the people administering first aid. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 16:45:12 +0000 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: OT: First-aid & liability References:

In-Reply-To: In message , Steven Santos writes >Oh, and we had a discussion on this list along the defib/first aid >liability lines back in March. Well worth reading, it had a LOT of >good info. But to sum it up in one sentence.... Defibrillator units are a cheap, easily available and simple to use device that should be available everywhere electrical work is carried out or crowds of people are present. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 09:00:52 -0800 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Semi OT: New first aid stuff In-reply-to: Message-id: References:

On Jan 1, 2007, at 8:50 AM, Clive Mitchell wrote: > Could this be one of those things where interested individuals end > up looking the mysterious device up on the 'net and download it's > manual themselves? Or it gets left on the wall untouched since they haven't been instructed otherwise? ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:11:15 +0000 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: OT: First-aid & liability References:

In-Reply-To: In message , Steven Santos writes >Oh, here is another interesting little fact for you; roughly 18 percent >of clinically dead patients later resuscitated will recall near-death >experiences years after the event. The question being whether this is just the brain going into an unstable state like an under-voltaged processor, or whether there may actually be more. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4599459F.4010408 [at] uwosh.edu> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 11:32:15 -0600 From: Mick Alderson Subject: Re: OT: First-aid & liability Dave Vick wrote: > Probably a sound idea, that, but I'm seeing (or I think I'm seeing, = > at any rate) people shying away from even having basic 1st-aid = > supplies on hand, for fear of litigation. > IANAL, but I hardly see handing someone a bandage (or the equivalent) = > to be "dispensing medication." > As was explained to me: When I got my present job (college TD and students over 18), the first aid kit was basically empty, so I bought a new one (a small industrial model). It had gauze and tape, but no band-aids. I could construct a bandage from parts, but I wasn't allowed band-aids? I asked why and was told that this is a "first" aid kit and band-aids are considered "final treatment". As a shop supervisor, I can render first aid but not decide on terminal treatment. (That sound ominous, doesn't it.) This struck me as silly, too, and even irresponsible in an active theatre, so I adopted the same approach that others here have. There is a big box of band-aids right next to the first aid kit, to which I refer students who request a band-aid. If they ask for an aspirin or a Tylenol or a TUMS, I direct them to the bottles in my desk drawer (there for MY use, of course. I AM a TD ;-) ). I do the same for the cold packs. They are in a file drawer if a student wants one. I figure if I can't apply a band-aid, then how can I prescribe an ice pack for soft tissue injuries? But I don't tell students to use any of these items. They have to ask. And if a student is beyond the ability to ask, then I hope we've called 911 already. And if I'd been at the call Kristi mentioned, she could have asked me. I carry a small first-aid kit in my "IA" work bag at every call I'm on. It contains band-aids, aspirin, and TUMS among other things. The same general restrictions apply to it's use. How that interacts with Workers Comp laws I don't want to think about. -- Mick Alderson TD, Fredric March Theatre Univ. of Wis. Oshkosh ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070101101017.00c7c778 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 10:10:17 From: CB Subject: Re: OT: First-aid & liability >but I'm seeing (or I think I'm seeing, >at any rate) people shying away from even having basic 1st-aid >supplies on hand, for fear of litigation. If there is any sort of justice, these people (and their lawyers) will die a slow and painful death in sight of an empty first aid cabinet that would normally have contained somthing that would have otherwise saved them. No one has ever gone broke underestimating the stupidity of an overly litigious society. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4599489F.7070206 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 12:45:03 -0500 From: Dale farmer Subject: Re: Semi OT: New first aid stuff References: In-Reply-To: RD wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In my tours of about 100 facilities this last year I saw AED's and asked > teachers and others if they knew what to do. 87% said that they were? Going > to be instructed as to what to do. Long way to go. Doom > AEDs are incredibly simple to use. Unless you are deaf and blind. Then you cannot hear or read the instructions, available in several languages. The ones I've seen here in the US default to english, with spanish alternate. Other languages are available. They were designed for untrained people to use them. The training that you get is mostly a CPR training class, with where to use the AED inserted, and a demonstration on using it on a manikin that has the AED simulation circuitry. If you can perform CPR reliably, then you have the brain power and muscular coordination required. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070101101958.00c7c778 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 10:19:58 From: CB Subject: first aid stuff >My gut reaction is if you need to clot your blood to >stop bleeding, that has to be one hell of a cut. From >my own experience I know I clot fairly quickly, and I >may use a band aid, but only to keep the cut clean. I >also understand that a little bleeding is not a bad >thing, it helps to clean the cut. While all of this is true, if you are working on white fabric, or something similar, let the cut bleed a bit and then clot it so you can get back to work. Blood clots will keep the thing clean far better than a band-aid, and the idea is one of convenience, not necessarily a remedy for a medical 'need' for a clotting agent. If you need to close a large rent in the flesh, that's what cyanoacrylates are for. This stuff is a replacement for a band-aid type bandage in places where an adhesive bandage might not want to co-operate, or where you may be immersing your hands shortly after an injury (like eating tataki with lemon with a papercut on your fingers, ouch!) or when you just feel like getting it over with instead of maintaining a bandage. If a band-aid wouldn't do any good, you probably should consider more than this lil' strip anyways. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070101102547.00c7c778 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 10:25:47 From: CB Subject: Re: OT: First-aid & liability >I am unaware of any published case where someone was held >liable for using a AED in the manner that the manufacturer intended. Now, when a lawyer says it, it really sounds like, "but I am aware of someone who was held liable because they applied it in a manner that the manufacturer hadn't intended." Which brings to mind the manufacturer's label that reads: "Not for indoor or outdoor use". It's not that you can't use an AED in a lawyer, it's that it's hard to find someone that wants to, as opposed to watching them writhe and jink there on the carpet. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070101103551.00c7c778 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 10:35:51 From: CB Subject: Re: Another job listing >Isn't Miss Pelling one of the "ladies" I know? :) Along with Barbara Seville, Amanda Bury, and Lucinda Holiday? (Miss Gay Arizona for '00, '06, and '94respectively...) Yeh, could be... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070101104900.00c7c778 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 10:49:00 From: CB Subject: RE: OT: First-aid & liability >Even then, while I >have had classes on performing an emergency tracheotomy, I am not >comfortable with the skill, and I can't imagine ever trying it. An emergency trach gag is pretty easy. The trickiest part is kowing where to cut, and the rest is a near cakewalk. So, by the way, is relieving a subdural hemotoma. When my pop was in with a bit of one, I explained that if I were to have access to the anesthesias, I could dio the gig with a sharp razor knife and my cordless drill, and that the biggest worry was the risk of infection. The Neurologist basically backed me up, and we talked about DeWalts for a coupla minutes. My folks were so proud. So far, I've sutured four of my own injuries closed. One of Tucsons' premiere Thoracic surgeons admired my sutures and suggested that they were almost as good as his. Getting over the 'icky' factor , and fear of liability are the biggest difficulties in most medical procedures that don't involve internal organs. The rest of the skills required are skills that quite a few of us use every day! Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070101105954.00c7c778 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 10:59:54 From: CB Subject: new ideas for the stage tech olympics... >(p.s. I used tinyurl just for you, CB, and I am a squint!) Nice site, and thanks, the link worked really well! Oh, and you can get over the squint thing, it just takes a lot of studying. ; > ...but it's not a new idea. There ahve been saw races, vacuum cleaner exploding contests, circ saw and belt sander races (with human jockeys) in the gripalympics for years. This is just another chapter in the things we do when we get bored. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45996978.9020909 [at] fieldmousepro.com> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 14:05:12 -0600 From: Stephen Lee Subject: Personal responsibility References:

In-Reply-To: > Frank wrote: > > It's the personal responsibility again. If I do something daft, I > accept the responsibility myself. If I get my fingers in the saw, I > did it. No blame attaches to the workshop manager. Great point. I think it's interesting how most of the "responsibility" debate (in general) these days concentrates on the responsibilities of the person/company/manufacturer who supplies something. It seems that the responsibility of the person receiving or using something is being ignored. If I'm injured & accept help from someone, I'm an active participant and am *accepting* or *refusing* that help. While the person who gives help/advice is responsible for the quality of that help, no one is holding a gun to my head to take it. I can say, "Sure, go ahead", or "Stay away from me, you're an idiot". :) -- Stephen Lee Fieldmouse Productions Nashville, TN Today's location: Nashville, TN ------------------------------ Message-ID: <90d9c9980701011211y3a10b528xe9385baf4bfbb93e [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 15:11:50 -0500 From: "Scott Parker" Subject: St. Thomas: any members? Hello All, Just curious if anyone is in St. Thomas... -- Thanks and take care, Scott Scott C. Parker Professor/Technical Director Dept. of Performing Arts Dyson College of Arts and Sciences [at] Pace University Office/shipping: 41 Park Row, 1205F Mailing: 1 Pace Plaza New York, NY 10038 212-346-1423 Fax: 914-989-8425 ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 21:11:10 +0000 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: OT: First-aid & liability References: In-Reply-To: In message , CB writes >It's not that you can't use an AED in a lawyer, it's that it's hard to >find someone that wants to, as opposed to watching them writhe and jink >there on >the carpet. Followed by the inevitable round of applause when the show's over. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45997D83.2010008 [at] fastmail.net> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 16:30:43 -0500 From: John Huntington Subject: Cool Panorama You need QT to view this, but it's a very cool shot and interesting for us entertainment technology geeks as well: http://www.panoramas.dk/new-year-2007/new-years-eve-2006.html John ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" Subject: RE: OT: First-aid & liability Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 14:47:04 -0700 Message-ID: <014901c72dee$63c96d80$6501a8c0 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: I do recall, so vividly, when the ambulance brought my mother to the hospital in Mobile, after having been crushed by a semi truck and a Mustang car from one direction, Dead on Arrival. And they resuscitated here ....I do remember that moment. Dr. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Steven Santos Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 8:45 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: OT: First-aid & liability For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- > > Liability is low. SAED's and AED's are only used on dead people. > > That's a bit of an exaggeration. When a person goes into ventricular > fibrillation, they are not dead. But they will be in a very short time > unless a somewhat coordinated heartbeat is restored. Bill, Their are a number of definitions of dead used in the medical world, the two primary ones (but not the only ones) being 'clinically dead' and 'biologically dead'. Clinically dead is when any condition exists that causes the system to no longer be able to sustain itself. Clinical death will lead to biological death (the state you are referring to, where the biological systems have stopped functioning) if not corrected. The line between clinical and biological death is a very grey area, partly because medical tech is constantly changing where the line is. When a patient enters ventricular fibrillation, they are clinically dead. AED's are an intervention for trying to keep that clinical death from becoming biologically dead by sending a phased electrical pulse (single phase pulse, bi-phase pulse, biphasic shaped pulse, the newer tri phasic pulses, etc) through the heart in an attempt to get the heart to quiet itself long enough for the SI node (or one of the other pace maker nodes in the heart) to begin sending a pace maker pulse through the heart nodes, essentually restarting the heart (yes, this is not 100% accurate, but close enough for anyone without advanced SAED or MED training. If you want to go into further detail on how AED's work, I will be happy to do so off list). Again, this is one of the big reasons that liability is low with AED's, its being used on a dead person. Oh, here is another interesting little fact for you; roughly 18 percent of clinically dead patients later resuscitated will recall near-death experiences years after the event. >> Their are cases where people have been sued for having/using AED's >> (City of Boston vs John Hancock). > Could you provide the cite? A Google search in the phrase returns > nothing. Not everything is on google (yet). You will need to use Westlaw to get it, which I am sorry to say I no longer have (did the price on that ever go up...). Boston Globe did 3 or 4 stories on it when it went to hearing in the mid-1990's (1997?), though I don't remember if they sited the case name in the articles. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Steven Santos Director, Simply Circus, Inc. Email: Steven [at] SimplyCircus.com Mail: PO BOX 620753 Newton, MA 02462 Phone: 781-799-4938 eFax: 309-214-0899 Web: www.SimplyCircus.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <65ee040701011356p6b2aa43aucdc4c194083d67ef [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 16:56:25 -0500 From: "Steve Vanciel" Subject: Re: Old science books In-Reply-To: References: Looks interesting but the couple of links I tried did not produce anything but a blank window. SteveV Orlando, FL On 12/31/06, Jerry Durand wrote: > > > From another list, old science books in pdf format, no restrictions > on download. > > http://www.sciencemadness.org/library/index.html ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: Semi OT: New first aid stuff Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 13:56:40 -0800 Well I was really surprised at the cost of AED's. Now just to get people to know what they are and not to be afraid of them. That's going to be hard part. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Durand" > > On Jan 1, 2007, at 8:50 AM, Clive Mitchell wrote: > > > Could this be one of those things where interested individuals end > > up looking the mysterious device up on the 'net and download it's > > manual themselves? > > Or it gets left on the wall untouched since they haven't been > instructed otherwise? > > ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 18:35:09 EST Subject: Re: OT: First-aid & liability In a message dated 01/01/07 01:41:27 GMT Standard Time, ladesigners [at] juno.com writes: > Dear Frank, > Yes, it solves most problems; especially the one about suing yourself. > /s/ Richard I didn't say I applied it only to myself. My wife is sometimes a little careless with kitchen knives, especially when I have just sharpened them. It is also a sovereign remedy for boils. If any guest were to acquire a minor bleeding injury, I should use it, too, until the prothrombin had kicked in and stopped the bleeding. When I was actively sailing, the boat carried a more comprehensive kit, including remedies for upset stomachs, strong painkillers, antiseptics, and bandages. And I do have a First-Aid certificate, although it must be time-expired by now. First aid means just what it says: the first steps to saving life or limb. I can do mouth-to-mouth resuscitation and external closed heart massage, both of which need done fast if they are to be any use. You have a maximum of four minutes to save the brain from oxygen starvation. After that, you're a cabbage. When you have a living, breathing patient, THEN you send for the ambulance and the experts. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 19:09:07 EST Subject: Re: first aid stuff In a message dated 01/01/07 02:45:20 GMT Standard Time, catlett.lizardsdream [at] gmail.com writes: > Stupidity is not a shelter for the owner or manager of a shop, > especially if it can be proved that improper or insufficient training > was instituted, improper or insufficient safeguards were in place (or > proper ones missing), or (in the case of working with students) > insufficient supervision was provided. I can't really agree. If I go into the workshop when it is unused, having received no formal training, and take my thumb off in the table saw, who can I sue? I have used all sorts of machine tool, metalworking as well as woodworking, with little or no training and no supervision or protective clothing, and still have two eyes and a full complement of fingers and thumbs. Why? Because I understand the machines, respect them and their power, plan the work, and attend to what I am doing. Supervision cannot be constantly exercised, even by the most Argus-eyed supervisor. Half a second's inattention on the part of the tool user, and you're looking at a bleeding stump where your forefinger was. In my official trade of electronics engineer, the most likely proplems were stabbing yourself with a slipping screwdriver, and burning yourself on a soldering iron. Sticking plaster provides a remedy for the one, and a Freon spray for the other. > > I will say however that I agree with you that discussing the legality > of providing bandages is a monumentally ridiculous discussion. The > existence of a well-equipped first aid kit is not only necessary but > required in many legal structures and the application of first-aid to > a person who needs it should always trump any legal concerns. Being > aware of those legalities is discussed in any well designed first aid > course as is the appropriate application of them. Thank you. I thought that common sense had deserted this list. As a certificated first aider, I know that time is of great importance in some cases. If the brain is deprived of oxygen for more than four minutes, you're a cabbage. When you have a living, breathing patient, you send for the experts. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 19:33:12 EST Subject: Re: OT: First-aid & liability In a message dated 01/01/07 17:16:26 GMT Standard Time, bigclive1 [at] ntlworld.com writes: > The question being whether this is just the brain going into an unstable > state like an under-voltaged processor, or whether there > may actually be more. The brain requires a reliable supply of oxygen to function. This is supplied by the lungs and the heart. Hence mouth-to mouth resuscition and closed heart massage. The first keeps the oxygen supply going, and the second restores the blood circulation, which conveys the oxygen. After four minutes, you have a cabbage on your hands. The brain has died. The body is more resilient, but to what purpose? Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <52d.f051f7c.32cb041a [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 19:40:58 EST Subject: Re: OT: First-aid & liability In a message dated 01/01/07 17:37:58 GMT Standard Time, psyd [at] cox.net writes: > If there is any sort of justice, these people (and their lawyers) will die > a slow and painful death in sight of an empty first aid cabinet that would > normally have contained somthing that would have otherwise saved them. > No one has ever gone broke underestimating the stupidity of an overly > litigious society. Total agreement. And that must be a first. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <15134DE1EA20CF4BA1F473FADAC653AC5DAA72 [at] cassini.BrooklynCollege.local> From: Steve Bailey Subject: RE: MD 288 Dimmers/Re-introduction of myself Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 20:31:36 -0500 Al, "We have the MD288 Dimmer system by I think Litetronics? " - "How do these dimmers rate as far as overall serviceability and reliability in your experience? " A Google of MD288 (which sounded familiar in any case) says that your dimmers were most likely from a company called Teatronics. Here's a web link: http://www.teatronics.com/ In any event, they are no longer manufactured, but were a good solid design for the era - 20 years ago ?. "So far I haven't experienced any failures but we do have a problem with houselights not going out 100%. Could this be caused simply by dirty dimmers? If so, my knowledge about cleaning dimmers is limited to what I recall doing once. We blew the dimmers off with compressed air at a low setting on a portable air compressor. is this accepted practice? " Cleaning the dimmers is a very good practice as it helps prevent heat buildup (make sure you kill FEED power first), which can kill components. Dust, however, is probably not the cause of house lights not going out all the way. It sounds like there's another control issue which is either designed to do what you see (some systems are designed to not let the lamps go below 5% or so - it's called pre-heat - possibly your "pre-heat" setting is out of adjustment), or has partially failed. Note that the dimmer "packs" ea. have an internal control card that receives the data from the console(s) and it turn, varies the voltage to the lighting fixtures. Thus you could either have a problem with the control modules in the pack(s) or with the console(s). Without further data and info. about the rest of the system, it's hard to recommend anything specific My recommendation is to contact Steve Short at Litetrol Service Co., in Hicksville, LI., a very well known theatrical lighting system service company. They can pretty much fix anything, from any manufacturer and are in the NYC area. I believe they service SUNY Purchase as well as Scarsdale High School, as example (as well as my space). Be prepared to fully describe the entire system - I.E. all controllers - theatrical controller (Is there a Producer or Producer II console ?) if any, architectural controllers, if any (preset button stations ?), number of dimmer PACKS, number of breakers in a pack, size in amperage of breakers, location and size of the feed breakers, other controlling issues, etc... FWIW, being that Teatronics is out of business, there is no warranty in this case. In the event that you are not in the market for a new system, it can pay you to have your current system professionally maintained. In all likelihood and given the good quality of the gear you have, it would probably pay off in the long run to simply have it serviced. Steve Bailey Brooklyn College begin 600 winmail.dat M>)\^( [at] (!`0:0"``$```````!``$``0>0! [at] `(````Y`0```````#H``$( [at] `<` M&````$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0 [at] 36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0F``0`A````-4-!1#-! 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Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 01:12:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Semi OT: New first aid stuff From: "Bill Nelson" >>In my tours of about 100 facilities this last year I saw AED's and >>asked teachers and others if they knew what to do. 87% said that they >>were? Going to be instructed as to what to do. Long way to go. Doom > > That's not so great, but at least the units are almost self explanatory > in operation. At http://www.aedprofessionals.com/ they list a range of > demonstrator units if you scroll down the page. I understand that these are so simple to operate that an average 10-12 year old kid can do so - without any prior instruction. The hardest part is applying the paddles in the right positions - and the location is not critical. The machine makes the decision on whether a shock should be applied - and does not let it occur at the wrong time. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3130.205.215.253.166.1167729437.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 01:17:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: OT: First-aid & liability From: "Bill Nelson" > In message , Bill Nelson writes >>That's a bit of an exaggeration. When a person goes into ventricular >>fibrillation, they are not dead. But they will be in a very short time >>unless a somewhat coordinated heartbeat is restored. > > The units don't just indiscriminately blast the heart. They will ONLY > attempt defibrillation if it is needed and only at the most suitable > moment in what's left of the heartbeat. I never stated otherwise. > Technically speaking they will > only operate if the persons heart is not in a functional state, so > that's probably as good as dead as you get. I guess it comes down to the definition of "dead". Are the people with artificial hearts "dead"? Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3137.205.215.253.166.1167729732.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 01:22:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Altman 360Q From: "Bill Nelson" > A steel body 360Q version was in use at the Black Box Theater at SUNY > Purchase at least as early as 1976-77 or so. These units were "approved > equal" alternates to the Kliegl 1300 series ellipsoidals that had been > spec'd. Nice units actually, lighter then the aluminum verions, though > they got hot. I wonder of Purchase still has any around ?. And the model 360 preceeded the 360Q. Bill ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #1072 ******************************