Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 41079706; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:02:04 -0800 X-List-Processed: mail.prxy.net X-ListMember: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 41079703; Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:02:04 -0800 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS,SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID autolearn=ham version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on localhost X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: List-Archive: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #1084 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:01:34 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #1084 1. Re: Steven E. Hawkins v. The Waynesburg College by "Tim Catlett" 2. Re: stress skin planks and tile roofs by Dale Farmer 3. Re: Steven E. Hawkins v. The Waynesburg College by Stuart Wheaton 4. Re: New questions by Dale Farmer 5. Re: Big Apple Circus info by "Jon Ares" 6. Re: New questions by "Jon Ares" 7. Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident by "Jon Ares" 8. Re: stacking truss by Samuel Jones 9. Re: Steven E. Hawkins v. The Waynesburg College by Michael Heinicke 10. Re: stacking truss by "Bill Nelson" 11. Re: New questions by "Bill Nelson" 12. Re: Sales/Install Question by "Bill Nelson" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:06:09 -0600 From: "Tim Catlett" Subject: Re: Steven E. Hawkins v. The Waynesburg College In-Reply-To: References:

I agree, but even in that situation, there is a very clearly defined area in which the blade will do its work. Proper tool usage BEGINS with proper respect for the tool. Norm Abrams, whatever else you might think about his work, has always shown respect for his tools and what they are capable of. Here are the salient points that I ponder when this creeps into my brain. 1. If his sleeve was "caught in the blade" then he was wearing the improper clothing or the proper clothing improperly. Long sleeves certainly can be worn in a shop but they must be properly bloused to prevent exactly this kind of accident. 2. The blade will try to cut anything that comes into its path whether its a hot dog, a 2x4, or a Volvo. The blade does not care or concern itself with proper cutting procedure. That is why it is up to the operator to be cognizant of where the blade is going to be and stay well away from that path. On a stationary power tool that is as "safe" to operate as this one is, the "danger zone" is quite obvious. It is nowhere near as dangerous to operate due to operational mysteries as is the Radial Arm Saw. 3. If the saw was known to be inadequately maintained then the operator can certainly make the choice not to use it until the maintenance has been performed and is satisfied of its safety. This falls into the operators responsibility to him or her self as a carpenter to respect the tools, ALL tools, for what they are and in what situation they present themselves. 4. Why is the school being sued but the professor was "not named in the suit"? I understand that deep pockets are easier and more attractive to attack, however, if "inadequate supervision" was provided then shouldn't the professor be named? It would be that persons responsibility to supervise personally or establish supervision from other sources. 5. It is stated that the college failed to provide training, supervision, operator's manuals or warnings of the "inherent dangers of operating miter saws." I'm terribly sorry to point this out so bluntly but the 10" spinning blade is a rather sufficient warning of inherent danger. Also, if the operator's manuals were provided then is Mr. Hawkins stating that he would have read the operator's manuals prior to turning the saw on and attempting to use it? If training was not provided then is it not Mr. Hawkins' duty to avoid use of equipment for which he has received no training? If the warnings had been posted and the injury still happened then is he content to walk away, knowing that this happened due to operator error? 6. It is also stated that the saw pulled his left shirt sleeve into the saw "suddenly and without warning" yet he pressed the button to activate the saw. Possibly I'm assuming too much here but activation of a tool seems to provide warning that the tool is now dangerous and should be respected as such. As far as "suddenly" is concerned, I'm sure that it was sudden in light of the fact that the blade is turning REALLY FAST, a feature that allows it to do the work that it does. As many of you have I'm sure surmised, I am highly skeptical of this claim and I have essentially made up my armchair juror's mind about it. Maybe that isn't fair to Mr. Hawkins but until I hear further details about HOW this actually happened and, quite importantly, in what environmental conditions, I remain skeptical. Flame away. -- Tim Catlett Asst. Technical Director - Shorewood High School Drama Technical Director - Milwaukee Shakespeare Director of Outreach/Membership - ISETSA (International Secondary Education Theatre Health & Safety Association) Cell: 414.975.4424 EMAIL: catlett.lizardsdream [at] gmail.com On 1/10/07, Bill Nelson wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Maybe he was emulating Norm Abrams in his early television days. He used > to use a compound miter saw by holding the work with his left hand and > operating the saw with his right. As you might guess, he was severely > chastised for such foolishness. > > Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45A5B7CB.4070005 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:06:35 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: stress skin planks and tile roofs References:

In-Reply-To: Jon Ares wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >> For the tile roof, it might also be worth looking into cardboard tube >> from >> carpets or concrete form, split and cut to length then laid up like the >> traditional tile roofs. Not as fast but probably available locally >> and you >> can choose your tile radius. Might be cheaper depending on how much >> your >> labor costs. You will lose the appearance of thickness to the tiles >> unless >> it's very thick cardboard tube. > > > I did some tile roof like this once - looked good, but weighed a ton! > (Using a thick cardboard tubing.) We experimented with trying to > 'fake' up the thickness by using wimpier tubing and soft foams, or > cheesecloth and gack, but nothing beat the thick tube approach. > (Except for the weight issue.) > > - Jon Ares > www.hevanet.com/acreative > > > I did a gazebo roof with simulated terracotta tile made from 1.5 inch PVC pipe cut in half lengthwise and then painted. What an incredible time sink it turned into. If your labor supply is large and inexpensive, feel free to use this method. Couple of hours to make up a frame, then days and days of labor cutting up and sanding the PVC. (cause otherwise the paint would flake and scrape off if looked at funny), then painting and drilling holes for the screws, and screwing it to the frame. This was a six sided gazebo, so lots and lots of funky angle cuts on the seams. Oi! Used for three weeks, then it went home with one of the crew, who wanted it for his backyard, rather than have us pitch it into the dumpster. (My suggestion, involving gasoline, low explosives and a match, was vetoed. Too close to the White House, and the SS would get irate. ) --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45A5BB88.2070704 [at] fuse.net> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:22:32 -0500 From: Stuart Wheaton Reply-To: sdwheaton [at] fuse.net Subject: Re: Steven E. Hawkins v. The Waynesburg College References:

In-Reply-To: Bill Nelson wrote: > Maybe he was emulating Norm Abrams in his early television days. He used > to use a compound miter saw by holding the work with his left hand and > operating the saw with his right. As you might guess, he was severely > chastised for such foolishness. Perhaps there's a typo in your post? If I place a 2x4 on the saw, running off the left side, set my angle(s), hold the 2x4 against the fence with my left hand, to the left of the blade, 6 or more inches from the cut line, without sleeves, gloves, cuffs or other fiber to catch the blade, then operate the saw with my right hand on the handle, how am I being foolish? This seems to be the only proper way to operate the saw. Stuart ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45A5C0C8.8000907 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:44:56 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: New questions References:

In-Reply-To: Jon Ares wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > >> What is wrong with the good old fashioned "flash the lights" method? >> There >> is no additional cost and every lobby I have seen has light switches >> - at >> least for most of the lights. >> > > > My new lobby doesn't have light switches. Can't control the lights > there at all, unless it's after 11 or midnight, then there's a switch > to bring them full on. (I actually like the look of the lobby when it > goes into the 'overnight' mode - still plenty of light, but overhead > pendants drop in intensity by killing 3 of the 4 CFLs in them. Wish I > could switch them to this mode once the show has started.) > > Anywho, for our lobby signaling, we use a wireless doorbell, with the > low-frequency metal clapper-bar-thingy removed, so it goes 'ding,' > with no 'dong.' (I've written about this before - it originally was > used onstage as the sound effect used in conjunction with elevator > doors.) > > - Jon Ares > www.hevanet.com/acreative > > > Then it sounds like the lobby area was either specified poorly in your bid documents, or the contractor failed to comply with your specifications. If the first, then it's time to investigate hacking into the architectural lighting controller. Wouldn't be surprised if it is speaking DMX under the hood either. In the second case, then it better get put onto your punch list ASAP, before the school signs off on the building. IF they have already signed off, see the previous answer. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002901c7353f$6ebb02f0$0400000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Big Apple Circus info Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:14:55 -0800 > Sounds like an ad: "The Stagecraft Mailing List - I use it, and so > should you!" > "Stagecraft Mailing List: Apply directly to the forehead!" "Stagecraft Mailing List: Apply directly to the forehead!" "Stagecraft Mailing List: Apply directly to the forehead!" - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <005d01c73540$f718b880$0400000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: New questions Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:25:53 -0800 > Why can't you change the programming, so the lobby goes to 'overnight' at > about 6 pm on show nights? Then one of the HM or SM tasks would be to turn > on the override before the public was admitted. Bill, Bill, Bill.... stop talking sense. You think *I*, a lowly non-administrative-type has such power or control? Heck, I just had to swap a couple of beers to encourage the head engineer to 'find' a way to get the centrally-controlled heat turned on for the upcoming -3 day (sub-freezing) weekend (where typically the heat/air circ turns off at 6pm daily, except weekends, where it doesn't turn on at all!). *The head engineer knows how to crack the online system, where the District Operations Center controls all HVAC and electrical, not him. They don't let any facility engineers have access to the actual settings - all they can see are alarms and error logs. (Such is the hassle of being a LEED certified school.) - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <007f01c73541$c17dec30$0400000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:31:33 -0800 > be expected I suppose). As I said in another thread, I have tried, to > no avail, to reconstruct a situation with the compound miter saw in > which the injuries described could have been received through NO FAULT > of the operator. I just can't do it. Yeah, I've discussed this case with a few students as well, and, even with props, we can't figure out how the plaintiff could have done it, without dipping into Darwin's gene pool. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:00:02 -0800 Subject: Re: stacking truss From: Samuel Jones Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I think the original poster was concerned as a venue that would have a traveling show come in with the span sets having ridden in the truck on stacked truss. He wanted to know if there was anything he could do about it, because he didn't want to have an unsafe rig in his house. If I'm wrong about that it's still a reasonable question. Sam Samuel L. Jones Dance Program, Theater Production Supervisor Dept. of World Arts and Cultures, UCLA sjones [at] arts.ucla.edu (310) 825-5823(w) (310) 993-4172(c) (310) 207-0392(h) =================================================== > From: Rob Riddle > Reply-To: Stagecraft > > most of the time, really, most of the time, the spansets I used for > truss on my last tour were not in the same spot day after day. > Little to the left, little to the right, little off center etc. I > didn't like the fact they were dragging on the ground, shackles > dangling, etc. > they started coming off every strike by the third show. Them lighting > dudes just kept theirs on their trusses and moved them every day > anyway. > Mine were in the rigging box and took about the same amount of time to > place as removing and adjusting that the lighting dudes did. > > Rob't > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:36:20 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Heinicke Subject: Re: Steven E. Hawkins v. The Waynesburg College Cc: sdwheaton [at] fuse.net In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82527.47364.qm [at] web82205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Stuart Wheaton wrote: > Perhaps there's a typo in your post? If I place a > 2x4 on the saw, > running off the left side, set my angle(s), hold the > 2x4 against the > fence with my left hand, to the left of the blade, 6 > or more inches from > the cut line, without sleeves, gloves, cuffs or > other fiber to catch the > blade, then operate the saw with my right hand on > the handle, how am I > being foolish? This seems to be the only proper way > to operate the saw. I haven't seen any video of Norm operating a saw like this, but I can make a guess from my own experience. As you pointed out if the 2x4 is on the left of the saw, using your left hand to hold it would be appropriate in most cases. What I have seen people do though is to put the 2x4 on the right side of the saw and still hold it with their left hand. This causes the left arm to cross in front of the saw. It is possible to do this without being hurt, but it means being VERY careful and I wouldn't recommend it. I have seen several of the students I work with do this over the years. Of course I stop them immediately and point out the problem. They have always recognized the problem when it is mentioned, but then usually have a response to the effect of "I didn't even notice that!" This at a school that is known for high academic standards! Just shows that book smarts don't always equal common sense. Mike Heinicke ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3457.205.215.253.194.1168498972.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:02:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: stacking truss From: "Bill Nelson" > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I think the original poster was concerned as a venue that would have a > traveling show come in with the span sets having ridden in the truck on > stacked truss. He wanted to know if there was anything he could do about > it, because he didn't want to have an unsafe rig in his house. If I'm > wrong about that it's still a reasonable question. I doubt if there is anything that can be done, short of forbidding the loadin unless they get new span sets. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3477.205.215.253.194.1168500934.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:35:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: New questions From: "Bill Nelson" > You think *I*, a lowly non-administrative-type has such power or control? > Heck, I just had to swap a couple of beers to encourage the head engineer > to 'find' a way to get the centrally-controlled heat turned on for the > upcoming -3 day (sub-freezing) weekend (where typically the heat/air circ > turns off at 6pm daily, except weekends, where it doesn't turn on at all!). Hm. It makes a person wonder how the administrators expect anyone to be able to make use of the facility for evening audiences. Or is that nice new theatre just supposed to be a decorative bump on the campus? There is a possibility, assuming that you have control of the dimmer access and that your administrative types have no idea what the standard programming should be. It would require a DMX combiner to feed the affected dimmers. You then program your light board with an inhibit submaster and set the combiner to HTP. Then, when you run the submaster to full, the lights go out. I use the technique frequently, without the combiner, since our light boards do not have the capability of grabbing a channel level with a slider and dragging it down. It is a pain to use the encoder wheel or keypad. Another possibility would be to find a friendly staff electrician to install light switches in the feeders to those lights. Low voltage remotely controlled relays would work great here - especially with CFLs. Or, a dmx relay could be used on the dimmers, where the light board takes control when desired. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4259.205.215.253.194.1168509179.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 01:52:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Sales/Install Question From: "Bill Nelson" > from way back', you get what you deserve. Find all the gear that you want. > Find the MSRP on that gear. Make a list that has the make, model and type > of kit that you want and it's quantity, and the associated MSRP multiplied > by that quantity. If you don't think that you can afford at least one more > of everything that you need, buy one similar to one your neighbor has. > Preferably a neighbor that will lend you thiers when you bust yours, at > least until your new one shows up or some techs can patch toghether the > one you busted. I agree with Chris on this. The only time you do not want to specify exactly the product you want is when you are venturing into an area that you don't know. At that point, you should ask for opinions from the members of this mailing list. There probably are a few people whom are well familiar with just about any product you are considering. If there is no clear consensus, it might then be wise to engage one of the experts from this list as a consultant - with the understanding that their business will not be allowed to bid. Once you have your final list, let your chosen suppliers bid on the contract. Be sure the contract includes any applicable performance and support guarantees. Bill ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #1084 ******************************