Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 41156259; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:37:25 -0800 X-List-Processed: mail.prxy.net X-ListMember: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 41156252; Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:37:15 -0800 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on localhost X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS,SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.7 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: List-Archive: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #1087 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 21:36:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #1087 1. Re: stacking truss on spansets by Bill Sapsis 2. Re: Steven E. Hawkins v. The Waynesburg College by "Bill Nelson" 3. Re: Sales/Install Question by "Bill Nelson" 4. Re: students and miter saws by gregg hillmar 5. Re: Safety Signage by Stephen Litterst 6. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by "Delbert Hall" 7. Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident by Tony Tambasco 8. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by SS 9. Re: classes on resumes by "Paul Schreiner" 10. Re: [BULK] Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident by "Paul Schreiner" 11. Re: New questions by "Jon Ares" 12. Re: Chopsaw and safety by "paul.guncheon [at] hawaiiantel.net" 13. Re: Chopsaw and safety by "Jon Ares" 14. Re: Chopsaw and safety by "Paul Schreiner" 15. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by "Delbert Hall" 16. Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident by "RD" 17. Re: Chopsaw and safety by "Chris Rovers" 18. Re: Chopsaw and safety by "Michael Diederich" 19. Re: stacking truss on spansets by "Tony Miller" 20. Re: New questions by Clive Mitchell 21. MDF flooring by "Ben Hain" 22. Re: stacking truss on spansets by Bill Sapsis 23. Re: Steven E. Hawkins v. The Waynesburg College by CB 24. Re: Sales/Install Question by CB 25. Converting 70v Paging System by CB 26. Re: realistic dock planking by "Storms, Randy" 27. Re: Sales/Install Question by CB 28. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by CB 29. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by Rigger 30. Re: Steven E. Hawkins v. The Waynesburg College by Rigger 31. Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident by CB 32. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by Charlie Richmond 33. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by Jerry Durand 34. Faculty positions available at NC School of the Arts by "Booth, Dennis" 35. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by Simon 36. Job Posting - Wybron by "Miles Dudgeon" 37. Job Fair-SoCal by "Joe Golden" 38. New questions by Paul Marsland 39. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by KEITH ARSENAULT 40. Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident by 41. Re: stacking truss on spansets by "Brian Munroe" 42. Re: stacking truss on spansets by "Occy" 43. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by Pat Kight 44. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by "Delbert Hall" 45. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by Pat Kight 46. Re: stacking truss on spansets by "Brian Munroe" 47. Re: stacking truss on spansets by "Brian Munroe" 48. Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident by "Tim Catlett" 49. Posting Ed by CB 50. Re: stacking truss on spansets by Bill Sapsis 51. Re: Posting Ed by Myself 52. Re: stacking truss on spansets by Bill Sapsis 53. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by "Michael Finney" 54. Stephens by "Wyatt, Elizabeth" 55. Re: MDF flooring by "Jon Lagerquist" 56. Stephens by "Wyatt, Elizabeth" 57. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by David Duffy 58. Re: stacking/truss most spansets with by "Don Taco" 59. Re: Chopsaw and safety by Al Fitch 60. Re: students and miter saws by Al Fitch 61. Re: stacking truss on spansets by "Tony Miller" 62. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by "Jon Ares" 63. Re: stacking truss on spansets by "Brian Munroe" 64. Re: stacking truss on spansets by "Brian Munroe" 65. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by "Brian Munroe" 66. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by Charlie Richmond 67. Re: Posting Ed by "Paul Schreiner" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 06:22:10 -0500 Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Bruce. My bad. I wasn't being clear. The rigger did his job by pointing out the problem. The venue should have stepped in at that point and solved it. They're the ones that should have the emergency stock or the backup vendor. To expect the rigger to have that gear is wrong and for the venue to not have anything is, IMO darn near criminal. Bill S. ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre ETCP Council Member www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile On 1/12/07 2:35 AM, "Bruce Purdy" wrote: > Except that the OP was not from the venue, but rather an IA rigger > hired for the gig. He was asking what HE should do. Does he own and > carry his own personal collection of slings etc.? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1979.205.215.253.194.1168601374.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 03:29:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Steven E. Hawkins v. The Waynesburg College From: "Bill Nelson" > Now if you mean 'crossing over' arms, using the left to operate the saw > and > the right to operate the blade, with your arms crossing, placing the right > forearm in the path of the blade...... Yep, that is what I meant, using the left hand to hold the work against the fence to the right side of the blade. Sorry for the poor description. But it puts the left arm in danger, not the right. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <2102.205.215.253.194.1168603934.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 04:12:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Sales/Install Question From: "Bill Nelson" >>The only time you do not want to specify >>exactly the product you want is when you are venturing into an area that >>you don't know. > > Ehm, I'd like to respectfully suggest that if you are venturing into an > area that you don't know, that you either, learn enough to spec what you > need; hire someone to represent your needs that *does* know*;get the hell > out of the way. In either case, allowing someone who's primary goal is to > get your money to decide the best way for him to get it isn't in your best > interest in all cases. I believe that I stated that you should obtain expert help if you don't have the knowledge yourself. So we are in total agreement on this. > You do go on to suggest that one educate themselves with the suggestions > from this list, so I'm guesing that we are actually in agreement in > principle, but disagree on semantics. Or possibly I was just not too clear in what I wrote. It wouldn't be the first time. Bill ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: From: gregg hillmar Subject: Re: students and miter saws Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:16:05 -0500 Yeah, I'd agree that crazy is a little strong too. My Intro class is about introducing students to ALL aspects of theatrical productions, which includes, as an option, some amount of time working in the shop. They are put on a team with a trained student supervisor to accomplish tasks, but they do participate and are trained on proper safety and tool etiquette. But I think it is an important part of their introduction to the collaborative nature of theatre, and as such BELONGS in an intro class. g. ____________________ gregg hillmar associate professor Randolph-Macon College scenic & lighting design http://faculty.rmc.edu/ghillmar/ http://www.hillmardesign.com "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like no one's watching." Satchel Paige On Jan 12, 2007, at 5:29 AM, Bill Nelson wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see stagecraft.theprices.net/> > --------------------------------------------------- > >> If the requirement for an Introduction to Theater student to work >> in the >> shop is some kind of departmental policy, then the school SHOULD >> be sued. >> I'm sorry, but that's just plain CRAZY. > > Why is it "crazy"? Are students less capable of learning to use power > equipment safely now than they were 40 years ago? > > I to two years of shop classes in high school. The first was my > freshman > year. I used all the equipment you find in the usual theatre shop and > more, such as planers and jointers. > > So I was 4 years younger than a freshman in college, yet managed > fine. And > I was doing much more precise work than you find in normal set > construction. > > Bill > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45A79629.808 [at] gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:07:37 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Organization: University of Delaware Subject: Re: Safety Signage References:

In-Reply-To: Bill Nelson wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- I would suggest, if there is room, that you purchase a panel saw. They are > much safer than a table saw for cutting large sheets of wood. As they can > be set up along a wall, they do not occupy a lot of floor space. But wall space is usually more precious than floor space. And a panel saw requires at least 16' of wall, ideally 24'. That a lot of wall space. Steve L. -- Stephen Litterst Technical Operations Supervisor litterst [at] udel.edu Center for the Arts 302/831-0601 University of Delaware ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:16:33 -0500 From: "Delbert Hall" Cc: doomster [at] worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates In-Reply-To: References:

> Del: my inspection of the stadium did not reveal all the wonder you found, > but who knew? doom Randy - Are you talking about the Stephen C. O'Connell Center at UF? My wife and I regually atteded women's gymnastic meets in the "O Dome" in 1884-86. As a spectator, I always found it to be a wonderful space to watch sporting event. and My graduation was also held there, and it worked well for that too. Everyone at UF seemed to love and take a lot of pride it this building. -Delbert -- Delbert L. Hall ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre 423-773-4255 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20070112141739.4455.qmail [at] web50707.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 06:17:39 -0800 (PST) From: Tony Tambasco Subject: Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident They are raised with a mentality that they have to do what a teacher says and there is no room for discussion. If we think of all the times our students, during their high school careers are faced with the "because I said so" response to their questions, it becomes apparent how this kind of situation could occur. When they come to college they think this still applies to how they are to do things. Perhaps the student didn't know he could say no when it comes to safety. It is for this exact reason that we need some kind of an empowerment statement on our safety checkouts, "the student has the right to refuse to do a task if they feel it is unsafe, they are unfamiliar with the procedures or they need more training". I couldn't agree more with Philip. I consider myself very lucky to have had every ME and/or TD tell me that I was always in a position to let them know if I didn't feel comfortable doing what they asked me to do back when I was starting out. Now that I'm finding myself playing the guy in charge more often, making the point that "it's okay to say no" is the first thing I do after introductions. I think we'd all agree that the time to find out someone is not comfortable using the table saw is *before* they lose their fingers, but some students might not know that. Tony Tambasco email: tambascot [at] yahoo.com cell: 716-450-8148 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <8231e7ea0701120702m5230e906qb1325029c0dce1af [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:02:57 -0500 From: SS Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates In-Reply-To: References:

>My wife and I regually atteded women's gymnastic meets in the "O Dome" in 1884-86. < Damn Delbert, I didn't realize you were that old!! I bet most of us on this list hadn't either. What's your secret? :) >>As a spectator, I always found it to be a wonderful space to watch sporting event. and My graduation was also held there, and it worked well for that too. Everyone at UF seemed to love and take a lot of pride it this building.<< Having attended many a function in that facility back in the day, when I was living near Gainesville, I'll second that. A large portion of the campus always had that vibe (and the town too). Anywho, your secret!? :)- -SS TTS-EKU "I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didn't work that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness" ------------------------------ Subject: RE: classes on resumes Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:13:25 -0500 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A071BEC70 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> In-Reply-To: From: "Paul Schreiner" Cc: sdwheaton [at] fuse.net > A related pet peeve of mine...Did anyone ever get a resume=20 > from a recent graduate that listed all their classes by=20 > number only. (THEA 287, Oh yeah, that tells me a bunch...) I've had a few in my day. Only slightly more informative is when it does list the title, but it's so broad (i.e., "Introduction to Theatre") as to be useless. Falls into the pet peeve category of mine where you have a recent or soon-to-be grad who pads the resume with elebenty-seben names of instructors they've had for "Training", none of whom nobody's ever heard of cuz they include their first ballet instructor when they were six years old or something like that...and the "Training" section is larger than the roles played or jobs completed. ------------------------------ Subject: RE: [BULK] Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:17:04 -0500 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A071BEC76 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> In-Reply-To: From: "Paul Schreiner" > Now that I'm finding myself playing the guy in=20 > charge more often, making the point that "it's okay to say=20 > no" is the first thing I do after introductions. I think we'd=20 > all agree that the time to find out someone is not=20 > comfortable using the table saw is *before* they lose their=20 > fingers, but some students might not know that. That's the first thing I mention on Day One in the shop. The second thing is that I tell them they need to be aware of their own mental/physical condition each time they plan to turn the tools on...cuz all the training in the world isn't gonna help if they're sick or preoccupied or rushed or hung over. The third thing I make my students keep me informed of is any side effects of whatever medications they may be taking. I don't ask what it's for, and I don't ask what it is, but it's mandatory that they be aware of the side effects and inform me if, for example, they're taking something (even OTC) that can cause drowsiness or dizziness. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000d01c73660$5a6ea730$0400000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: New questions Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 07:43:06 -0800 > That wouldn't work in Jon's case, where the heating is not even turned on > during weekends or after about 6pm on weekdays. I assume the same is true > of air conditioning in the summer. Yep. But let's remember, we need A/C around here in Sept, Oct, and performance nights in Nov/Dec. Oh, and April, May and June are pretty warm around here, too. (It's not like you can just open a window in the theatres.) :) - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <32120078.1168617181784.JavaMail.? [at] fh125.dia.he.tucows.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:53:01 +0000 (UTC) From: "paul.guncheon [at] hawaiiantel.net" Reply-To: "paul.guncheon [at] hawaiiantel.net" Subject: Re: Chopsaw and safety << ...we need some kind of an empowerment statement on our safety checkouts, "the student has the right to refuse to do a task if they feel it is unsafe, they are unfamiliar with the procedures or they need more training". >> How does one know that one does not know? While I agree with the intention of the above, it seems to put the onus even more squarely on the shoulders of the student to be reponsible for their own safety. While they should be responsibly so I think the main safety resource remains the instructor, I put it quite simply when I spoke with my students. After explaining the uses and dangers of a particular tool and asking for questions (almost always "none"), I would always remind them that if they were scared of the tool or the job... even a little bit, "Don't do it." Respect is good... fear is not. Laters, Paul No Swifty today... my back hurts. Hell, my back hurts every day. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000301c73664$7817e590$0400000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" Cc: paul.guncheon [at] hawaiiantel.net References: Subject: Re: Chopsaw and safety Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:12:33 -0800 > Paul > > No Swifty today... my back hurts. > > Hell, my back hurts every day. > "My back is stiff," Tom said rigidly. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Chopsaw and safety Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:26:18 -0500 Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A071BECE0 [at] exchange.rmwc.edu> In-Reply-To: From: "Paul Schreiner" Cc: paul.guncheon [at] hawaiiantel.net > Respect is good... fear is not. Not sure I *completely* agree with this... First off, fear doesn't always give way to respect, nor are they mutually exclusive. Sometimes the only way to overcome one's fear is to give it a try; there's always a natural fear of the unknown, but the tool can't be "known" til it's used. You can be comfortable with a tool and still have a bit of fear...hell, the first time I turned on the table saw after our accident last fall, *I* was a bit uneasy about it, and I've been doing this for nearly 20 years now. It's a balance thing. When the fear outweighs the respect or the comfort, *then* I'd agree with you. But I think the goal of instruction on a tool involves giving the student enough knowledge and information to develop enough comfort and understanding to overcome that initial fear and try it out. Show them how to operate it safely, and they (hopefully) will be able to rationally develop enough of a comfort zone through imitation. But there's too much involved to expect that to develop without actual hands-on exposure. Unless, of course, you meant that they don't try flying solo until the fear is checked...? ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:31:38 -0500 From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates In-Reply-To: References:

1884-86 were good years in Gainesville. ;-) The secret is always wear fall protect (and your seat belt) and always agree with your wife. -Delbert On 1/12/07, SS wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > >My wife and I regually atteded women's gymnastic meets in the "O > Dome" in 1884-86. < > > Damn Delbert, I didn't realize you were that old!! I bet most of us on > this list hadn't either. What's your secret? > :) > > > >>As a spectator, I always found it to be a wonderful space to watch > sporting event. and My graduation was also held there, and it worked > well for that too. Everyone at UF seemed to love and take a lot of > pride it this building.<< > > Having attended many a function in that facility back in the day, when > I was living near Gainesville, I'll second that. A large portion of > the campus always had that vibe (and the town too). > > Anywho, your secret!? > :)- > > > -SS > TTS-EKU > "I once prayed to god for a bike, but quickly found out he didn't work > that way...so I stole a bike and prayed for his forgiveness" > -- Delbert L. Hall ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre 423-773-4255 ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" References:

Subject: RE: Student sues college over injuries in accident Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:35:35 -0700 Message-ID: <00fc01c73667$b13413a0$6501a8c0 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: Perhaps what is needed today is "uncommon sense" meaning reality, reasonableness, et al, because common sense seems to have left the American Scene long time ago. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Tim Catlett Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:39 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- I would argue that, no matter what is said, the prosecution will argue. Also, I understand the designation of student and the connotations that are assumed with that moniker. However, that is for the courts to sort out. It does nothing in the way of fostering a safety culture wherein every individual is expected to be responsible for others AND for self. "Common sense" - right, I forgot the critical and most important facet of that terminology. Thanks for reminding me. I guess if it weren't for the ubiquitous lack of common sense then Jay Leno wouldn't be able to do "Headlines" on Monday nights. Also, I completely agree about the training videos. I already keep records on my students and also on my employees at Shakes but many people don't because it is hard to come up with a convenient system. I'm working on this as one of my projects for ISETSA. Hopefully I will have it available soon. Thanks Kristi, -- Tim Catlett Asst. Technical Director - Shorewood High School Drama Technical Director - Milwaukee Shakespeare Director of Outreach/Membership - ISETSA (International Secondary Education Theatre Health & Safety Association) Cell: 414.975.4424 EMAIL: catlett.lizardsdream [at] gmail.com On 1/11/07, MissWisc [at] aol.com wrote: > The prosecution will argue that because Mr. Hawkins is a STUDENT (regardless > of being a legal adult) he wouldn't have known of the dangers. "Common > sense" is a learned skill. > > My mind thinks of the times I've worked wardrobe on touring shows and the > road person says "Don't iron over the velcro, it will melt." My brain thinks > "DUH!" but had it not happened in some city, she wouldn't have felt the need > to reiterate it. > > The folks who are teaching safety (training videos are a great idea!) AND > more importantly testing the students to insure they have learned the safety > techniques, plus keeping those tests on file as proof of same - they are doing > it right. > > Kristi ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:46:46 -0500 From: "Chris Rovers" Subject: Re: Chopsaw and safety In-Reply-To: References:

On 1/12/07, Paul Schreiner wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > Respect is good... fear is not. > > Not sure I *completely* agree with this... > > First off, fear doesn't always give way to respect, nor are they > mutually exclusive. Sometimes the only way to overcome one's fear is to > give it a try; there's always a natural fear of the unknown, but the > tool can't be "known" til it's used. I agree with this, Paul. As part of my role as build dude on a number of productions at our all volunteer community theatre, I've given many people their first chance to use power tools - even things as simple as a cordless drill can be scary to someone who has never used them before. I explain things, reassure, give all the safety tips I can, but if the bar was 'unafraid', there are many people that would never ever pick up that cordless drill - there's a wide range of people who just have zero experience at all and many of them, mostly women, are scared of them. On the other hand, once they DO get that first experience, it makes all the difference in the world. They are thrilled to get to do things. They do things safely because that's what I stress and demonstrate, but they needed to get over the fear and the only way to do that was to do it the first time. Three notes : I say mostly women above because that's my experience. It just seems that more guys then girls got to play with power tools as kids and that unfamiliarity seems to translate into fear. I'm glad I get the opportunity to turn that fear into respect and to give them that experience, it has been really rewarding. Second, I call myself a build dude - my typical position is somewhere between set designer and master carpenter, but to be frank, I don't think I deserve the term 'master' anything for my theatre skills :) My latest play I'm more formally doing proper set design (as opposed to improve set design on tech weekend) as well as retaining the carpentry role. Shop foreman, maybe. Third, I'm nervous doing this leadership role, but fortunately the theatre does carry liability insurance for its directors and agents (I'm both). No injuries beyond splinters thus far, but I still worry. I guess all I can do is be careful, but I think I'd be doing people a disservice by insisting they get their experience elsewhere before I'll let them do things - the whole point of our theatre group is to allow people to do new things, it is intended as an entry point into theatre, though some of us stick around quite a bit beyond that... -cdr ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Chopsaw and safety Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:39:29 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References:

From: "Michael Diederich" >>>> Respect is good... fear is not.<<<< The problem is when the fear is not of the tool, but of the supervisor or repercussions of a task not getting done on time. I worked on a show with a company a few years back (no names...). I got a little cut that I wanted to get taken care of. I had to cross the street and go to another building to find a first aid kit. (I started carrying my own kit within 15 minutes of leaving the office I went to for a bandage.) When my "contracted" time was up I left the company. They had a table top table saw in their possession which I refused to use. It wasn't properly maintained, looked like it was donated many years ago, and there was no great place to set it up for easy/safe usage. A few days after I left I got a phone call asking if I would come back due to the person who stepped up into my position had almost cut completely through his thumb using that saw. His problem, as I saw it while working with him the weeks prior, that he was trying to rush things for fear of the Managing Director there. He would cut corners and "know what he was doing because he had done it before" too many times.=20 Fear of the repercussions of using a tool improperly and respect for the damage it can cause should be the issue; not the fear of getting yelled at by someone because they will try and screw you out of a check.=20 Michael Diederich Theater Techncial Asst. Mohawk Valley Community College 1101 Sherman Dr. Utica, NY 13501 (315) 731-5757 ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:52:12 +0000 From: "Tony Miller" Subject: Re: Re: stacking truss on spansets In-Reply-To: References:

One thing that has not been mentioned in this thread is the use of steel safeties. Is it not common practice to safety off any hanging pieces with steels? I understand that most of the strain will be placed when flying a piece in or out but I'm surprised there has been no mention at all of safeties on a static load. Just wondering why Tony Miller. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:55:31 +0000 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: New questions References:

In-Reply-To: In message , Jon Ares writes >> They all started wandering away, however, when we started picking >> up blister-packs and shaking them, lookig for just the right dong. > > >Clive, I believe this is your cue... I thought they were shopping in Ann Summers. (A UK sexy lingerie chain) -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:21:02 -0600 From: "Ben Hain" Subject: MDF flooring Hi everyone, Need your advice. I spent yesterday groveling for money to replace the old masonite on my stage floor and today am told that the powers that be would give me enough for MDF; which I wanted in the first place but it didn't sound like they would give me $5000.00. My question to the list is this: my actual stage floor is kinda rough with all the joints at traps and orchestra pit line. I've tried to level it as best as possible, but how much give will the MDF have at these places; will it crack? Would I really be better off sticking with masonite or other brand of tempered hardboard? Would I be a fool to turn down money for MDF? Any advice appreciated! Thanks- Ben Benjamin Hain Technical Director Hill Theater Rochester Community and Technical College Rochester Minnesota 507-285-7201 Ben.Hain [at] roch.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:23:05 -0500 Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Not in the US, Tony. Now, before everyone else gets all crazy on me, Tony is talking (Tony, correct me if I'm wrong) about hanging a second point from the roof steel for a static load. It's a very common, and required, practice in many places but not here in the USA. What is used to back up the spanset is a steel sling aound the truss and the hoist hook. This is done here in the US but most of the time done incorrectly. Which is why LiftAll developed the SteelFlex Roundsling. Polyester shell and steel wire rope core. Bill S. ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre ETCP Council Member www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile On 1/12/07 12:52 PM, "Tony Miller" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > One thing that has not been mentioned in this thread is the use of > steel safeties. Is it not common practice to safety off any hanging > pieces with steels? I understand that most of the strain will be > placed when flying a piece in or out but I'm surprised there has been > no mention at all of safeties on a static load. > > Just wondering why > > Tony Miller. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070112110351.00c83840 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:03:51 From: CB Subject: RE: Steven E. Hawkins v. The Waynesburg College >what if the sleeve was contacting the blade *when* the >power was turned on? and the kid just left it there while the motor worked up the speed to tear parts off his arm? If that's the case, then I'm sorry that it didn't finish the job and chlorify the gene pool. Reflexes that slow (without the aid of mind-altering substances) are criminally dangerous. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070112110701.00c83840 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:07:01 From: CB Subject: RE: Sales/Install Question >There are companies and people from whom I'd definitely solicit >recommendations on gear if I wasn't familiar with certain brands/models. >Ironically, one of them has the initials CB, but isn't our Mr. Babbie Those folk are your friends. The fact that they also sell audio kit is mostly a coincidence, and we are bound to make friends with decent people (if and when we can find them) in this business we call 'show'. This is, of course, the exception. Ironically, Mr. Babbie is my dad. ; > I don't get the title till he passes. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070112111213.00c83840 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:12:13 From: CB Subject: Converting 70v Paging System >Is there a way to take a signal from a 70v feed and >put it into a mixer/amplifier to feed higher powered >speakers? >I'm sure there is a way but I don't remember. Thanks >in advance. The best way is to take the signmale feeding the 70 V amp (the 'amp feeding signal') and feed that same signal (or a neighborly similar one) to the amp that you want to drive the other speakers. The easiest way (but not the best, of course) is to take and other 70V amp to convert it to a speaker signal and them get a large pad to take it down to a line level signal of your choice. There are a few DI's out there that'll take a speaker output and convert it to a line input, regardless of what Frank W will tell you. I'd suggest using the signal that's already feeding the 70V system, though. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Subject: RE: realistic dock planking Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:47:17 -0800 Message-ID: <555928311F8B2943B65FC7197942C3B70B49AF41 [at] es1.bsdnet.wednet.edu> From: "Storms, Randy" Paul, You're a squint! With that out of the way, *this* is why I post = things to the list - sometimes it takes a fresh set of eyes to point out = the obvious. It simply never occurred to me to glue up the planks first = and THEN cut them to size. D'Oh! Randy Storms rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu -----Original Message----- >Call me a squint, but why would you build 100 of these >when you could build 13 [at] 4' x 8' and slice them to >the proper width? =20 >Paul ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070112112429.00c83840 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:24:29 From: CB Subject: Re: Sales/Install Question >> In either case, allowing someone who's primary goal is to >> get your money to decide the best way for him to get it isn't in your best >> interest in all cases. > >Or in any case! Sheesh, this just seems like so much common sense... Yah! The problem is, Chuckie, that common sense just ain't that common anymore. I think I may have to include "Don't do it like Frank W does" in my sig. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070112112922.00c83840 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:29:22 From: CB Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates >The brand new U of PHX Stadium where the best 3 bowls were just held >also has a retractable roof, but despite perfect AZ winter weather, >remained closed for all of them !???? Why did I have to pay for the >retractable part? Rich folk didn't want the air conditioning to get out. AZ resorts are the only place I've ever gigged where I was in danger of frostbite. At one show, my lips were blue and cyanotic, and my fingertips were white and numb. It was August, and the temp outside was 109 F. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:08:34 -0500 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates At 11:29 AM -0500 1/12/07, CB wrote: > At one show, my lips were blue and cyanotic, and my > fingertips were white and numb. It was August, and > the temp outside was 109 F. Sounds like my kind of venue! -- Dave Vick 20/20 Design rigger [at] tds.net That ain't blood, sir, that's antifreeze ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:06:35 -0500 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Steven E. Hawkins v. The Waynesburg College At 11:03 AM -0500 1/12/07, CB wrote: > Reflexes that slow (without the aid of mind-altering > substances) are criminally dangerous. Erm... Reflexes that slow *WITH* the aid of mind-altering substances are criminally dangerous, too. JMHO. -- Dave Vick 20/20 Design rigger [at] tds.net Yet another ho-hum day, here in the Fantasy Factory ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070112115237.00c83840 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:52:37 From: CB Subject: Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident > "Don't iron over the velcro, it will melt." My brain thinks >"DUH!" but had it not happened in some city, she wouldn't have felt the need >to reiterate it. Yeah, I look at all 'Anti-Darwinist' labeling as the result of it happening, not only oince, but multiple times. Usually when I'm dealt such 'advice', I indicate that it is something that I'm aware of, but I also tell the advisor, "...but never stop telling me". I don't mind being reminded of the common sense items. I mind much more when I forget one or ignore one and have to own up to it. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:19:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

An update on the roof at BC Place Stadium: The 'experts' doing the on site investigation found that the problem was caused by a previously weakened and damaged roof section causing one of the loudspeaker clusters to drop slightly. This caused one maintenance person to turn on an additional support fan - but at the same time some other maintenance person turned on 8 more fans..... the extra pressure then caused the roof to burst. A computer controlled system may have helped here... ;-) C ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:25:31 -0800 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates In-reply-to: Message-id: <7.0.1.0.0.20070112112322.01f3e3c8 [at] interstellar.com> References: At 03:29 AM 1/12/2007, CB wrote: >Rich folk didn't want the air conditioning to get out. AZ resorts are the >only place I've ever gigged where I was in danger of frostbite. At one >show, my lips were blue and cyanotic, and my fingertips were white and >numb. It was August, and the temp outside was 109 F. Several of us went to Boston for a couple of weeks playing with lasers. It was 17F outside and over 85F inside. We insisted they turn down the heat, us California people were melting. Actually, none of us knew to bring summer clothes, or it might have been ok. Oh, and they were always complaining about their heating bills. -- Jerry Durand, Durand Interstellar, Inc. www.interstellar.com tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 Skype: jerrydurand ------------------------------ Subject: Faculty positions available at NC School of the Arts Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:28:15 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Booth, Dennis" Thanks to all who responded to my message last month concerning our need = to hire casual labor. We are in good shape at the moment. We also have two faculty positions open in the School of Design and = Production; a Sound Design Faculty and a Digital Graphics Faculty (CAD, = etc). If you're interested, you might check out the following link: http://www.ncarts.edu/humanresources/jobopportunities.htm Thanks again, Dennis Dennis Gill Booth Assistant Dean=A0=A0 =A0 North Carolina School of the Arts=20 =A0 School of Design and Production=20 =A0 1553 South Main Street=20 =A0 PO Box 12189=20 =A0 Winston-Salem, NC=A0=A0 27117-2189 =20 *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Voice:=A0 (336)770-3232 x109 *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 FAX:=A0=A0 (336)770-3213=20 *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Email: boothd [at] ncarts.edu=20 *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 D&P URL: = http://www.ncarts.edu/ncsaprod/designandproduction/=20 *=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Faculty=A0URL: = http://faculty.ncarts.edu/dandp/booth/ Long Reach Long Rider Day Tripper -"Out of the Wings and Into the Wind" http://www.lrlr.org/ ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45A7E45C.3060903 [at] ef-ae.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:41:16 +0400 From: Simon Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates References:

In-Reply-To: Jerry Durand wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > At 03:29 AM 1/12/2007, CB wrote: >> Rich folk didn't want the air conditioning to get out. AZ resorts >> are the >> only place I've ever gigged where I was in danger of frostbite. At one >> show, my lips were blue and cyanotic, and my fingertips were white and >> numb. It was August, and the temp outside was 109 F. > Yoy obviously dont get venues like the Dubai world trade centre then > where they only turn the air con on the day before a show / event, so > a 4 day build will have 3 days of no aircon , lovely in August. At the moment night time temp is 12c so we are all looking for heaters ------------------------------ Message-ID: <6947c8d40701121225q4ef8aa50scb3780510955e4af [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:25:45 -0500 From: "Miles Dudgeon" Subject: Job Posting - Wybron Seeking a personable, enthusiastic and capable individual to fill a Regional Sales Manager position within our Sales Organization. An opportunity exists in the Northeast region of the United States (preferably based near New York City). Qualifications Minimum of 2 to 5 years experience with sales within the lighting industry Must possess strong technical aptitude and presentation skills College degree preferred Duties Assist in attaining sales quota assigned to the region Promote all products to the distribution channel Increase sales and market share on an annual basis within assigned region Influence and increase product specifications by developing, maintaining and deepening relationships with lighting designers, consultants, specifiers, engineers and end-users Maintain and improve relationships with direct clients within the territory Be knowledgeable and fluent with product line in order to communicate key selling points, features and benefits Be willing to assist with sales and marketing activities within territories such as open houses, seminars, tradeshows, etc. Travel throughout the assigned region as needed Provide monthly sales outlook, marketing feedback and territory overview If you are interested please email your resume to Larry Turner larry [at] wybron.com. This was my job at Wybron, but my position has been changed and I'm moving out to the factory, feel free to email me off list if you have questions about the job. Regards, Miles ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Joe Golden" Subject: Job Fair-SoCal Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:16:08 -0800 Organization: Stage-Tech Message-ID: I am posting this for a friend... Southern California Section USITT JOB FAIR Portfolio review Job Expo When: Saturday January 20, 2007 Where: Center Stage Theatre Paseo Nuevo Center 751 Paseo Neuvo Santa Barbara CA 93101 At the Intersection of Chapala and De la Guerra Streets Time table of Events: 10am-11:30am Panel Discussion Design and Production Careers in Theatre Portfolio review sign-up 12pm-2:45pm 12pm-3pm stage Expo Companies in Attendance Angstrom Stage Lighting Debbies Book Disneyland Electronic Theatre Control Field Template Great American Market H and H Specialties Inc. Hollywood Sound Systems Knotts Berry Farm Martin Norman Russell Design RoseBrand Rosco Colleges Recruiting Cal Arts Cal State Northridge PCPA Pomona College Santa Barbara City College UC Santa Barbara USC 3pm-6pm Portfolio review Reviewers are Professional Designers from our Region Who is this for? Students Designers Professionals Please RSVP to: Sue Brandt chair [at] socalusitt.org Watch for other events coming up at: http://www.socalusitt.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:30:33 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Marsland Subject: New questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <245428.19801.qm [at] web52206.mail.yahoo.com> I had similar thoughts, but my fixes involved a small propane torch and a CO2 fire extinguisher! Paul > well, if you need to fool the sensors, shining a > light just below the > thermostat to get more cool in the hot weather, and > rigging a small fan > with a damp cloth to get more heat in the cold > weather work. > > --Dale ____________________________________________________________________________________ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: <49C27FE4-4DF8-4297-A20B-7377616B9441 [at] aol.com> From: KEITH ARSENAULT Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:13:08 -0500 The Sun Dome here in Tampa on the campus of U of South Florida is architecturally the little brother of the O'Connell Center, with the O"Connell Center being definitely the bigger budget version of pretty much the same basic building, The Sun Dome got a solid roof about three years ago now, , no more deflations there, On Jan 12, 2007, at 9:16 AM, Delbert Hall wrote: Randy - Are you talking about the Stephen C. O'Connell Center at UF? My wife and I regually atteded women's gymnastic meets in the "O Dome" in 1884-86. As a spectator, I always found it to be a wonderful space to watch sporting event. and My graduation was also held there, and it worked well for that too. Everyone at UF seemed to love and take a lot of pride it this building. Keith L Arsenault International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida www.iaeginc.com 813 831 3465 office 813 205 0893 cellular iaeg [at] aol.com ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <9C6A2BAF-784A-469E-B290-318BAE4D730A [at] dopher.com> Subject: Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:27:49 -0500 From: I don't think anybody has yet mentioned the possibility that the saw was not in good working order. Despite the obvious dangers of a miter saw, there are non-obvious ones as well. (By the way, was this a miter saw, a chop saw, or a mitering chop saw?) For instance, if the springs and adjustments that return the blade to an up and guarded position are not working right, the head of the machine can drop suddenly in an unexpected way. If the student has never used the saw before, this could take him very much by surprise and lead to an accident, especially if he's seen someone else use the saw who, knowing about the defect, exhibits control and ease of use - the student would not suspect the saw to be difficult to control. Did this saw have a guard? Does it open and close at the right time? Was the miter lock actually locked down; did the saw swing side to side unexpectedly? I have not seen anything yet where the school claims the saw itself was in perfect operational order. A tool in good shape is a lot safer to use, even for a novice, than one with defects. Cris Dopher ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:41:20 -0500 From: "Brian Munroe" Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets In-Reply-To: References:

On 1/12/07, Bill Sapsis wrote: > What is used to back up the spanset is a steel sling aound the truss and the > hoist hook. This is done here in the US but most of the time done > incorrectly. Which is why LiftAll developed the SteelFlex Roundsling. > Polyester shell and steel wire rope core. What would be the correct way to use a steel sling as a safety to a spanset? Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References: Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:47:14 -0800 Ok unless you where there you don't KNOW nor do I been/done the arena/Broadway tour system. Most of the time the spansets that are left on the truss, if they leave them on the truss are for sub structure stuff, ones left on the truss are protected most of the time by the cabling being piled on the truss. How many rigging/lighting companies use spacers between each row of truss? More than I can count or care to remember. I asked a VP at a large rigging company that I work for a few times a year why are we using gunny sacks and carpet strips to? As soon as the cable take the load it will eat right through the fabric. Oh it's an electrical insulator. If you ever tell anyone that again I will have to someone hurt you, as if the The real electricians/squeeks, find that out all the chains, will have to be bonds to the structure. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Bell" > --------------------------------------------------- > > I think the original poster was concerned as a venue > that would have a > traveling show come in with the span sets having > ridden in the truck on > stacked truss. He wanted to know if there was > anything he could do > about > it, because he didn't want to have an unsafe rig in > his house. > > Actually I'm the I.A. rigger who doesn't want to be > held responsible for hanging equipment that I would > deem unsafe. Remembering Dooms level 1 course, > liability is always on my mind as much as safety. I > brought this to the list because I'm tired of hearing > "no one else has had a problem with it" and I find it > hard to believe that other riggers are just hanging > these shows. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45A81078.4060901 [at] peak.org> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:49:28 -0800 From: Pat Kight Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates References:

In-Reply-To: KEITH ARSENAULT wrote: > Randy - Are you talking about the Stephen C. O'Connell Center at UF? > My wife and I regually atteded women's gymnastic meets in the "O Dome" > in 1884-86. Whoa. Keith's even older than I am. -- Pat Kight kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:52:04 -0500 From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates In-Reply-To: References:

Actually I (Delbert) wrote that, but Keith is the same age as me. -Delbert On 1/12/07, Pat Kight wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > KEITH ARSENAULT wrote: > > > Randy - Are you talking about the Stephen C. O'Connell Center at UF? > > My wife and I regually atteded women's gymnastic meets in the "O Dome" > > in 1884-86. > > Whoa. Keith's even older than I am. > > -- > Pat Kight > kightp [at] peak.org > -- Delbert L. Hall ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre 423-773-4255 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45A81220.5020605 [at] peak.org> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:56:32 -0800 From: Pat Kight Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates References:

In-Reply-To: Delbert Hall wrote: So, how was the gymnastics team in 1884? (-; -- Pat Kight > Actually I (Delbert) wrote that, but Keith is the same age as me. > > -Delbert > > On 1/12/07, Pat Kight wrote: >> KEITH ARSENAULT wrote: >> >> > Randy - Are you talking about the Stephen C. O'Connell Center at UF? >> > My wife and I regually atteded women's gymnastic meets in the "O Dome" >> > in 1884-86. >> >> Whoa. Keith's even older than I am. >> >> -- >> Pat Kight >> kightp [at] peak.org >> > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:05:31 -0500 From: "Brian Munroe" Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets In-Reply-To: References:

On 1/12/07, Bill Sapsis wrote: > Bruce. My bad. I wasn't being clear. The rigger did his job by pointing > out the problem. The venue should have stepped in at that point and solved > it. They're the ones that should have the emergency stock or the backup > vendor. To expect the rigger to have that gear is wrong and for the venue > to not have anything is, IMO darn near criminal. What happens when the rigger points out the problem to the venue and they do not address the problem? What should the rigger do next? And I have to disagree about the venue having to have rigging supplies for the incoming production to use. You would not expect the venue to have replacement moving lights, or microphones or keyboards for someone to use, why should they have spansets/steel/etc? I can see the venue having some stuff on hand that they would normally use for replacement/maintenance of their own equipment, but not necessarily enough spansets to replace a complete set on trusses. Having a vendor nearby would be great, but what about when the show plays Cow Town, Kansas? No offense meant to any Kansans. And realistically, does every show out there check their spansets daily before use? Bill, you mentioned not being greedy with the rental price. I have played houses where the try to sell/rent me stuff that I left beyond the last time I played there. A pet peeve of mine- How many shows have you done where the rigging on the scenery was "adequate", but the scenery itself was ready to fall apart? Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:09:59 -0500 From: "Brian Munroe" Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets In-Reply-To: References:

On 1/12/07, Occy wrote: > Ok unless you where there you don't KNOW nor do I been/done the > arena/Broadway tour system. Most of the time the spansets that are left on > the truss, if they leave them on the truss are for sub structure stuff, ones > left on the truss are protected most of the time by the cabling being piled > on the truss. How many rigging/lighting companies use spacers between each > row of truss? More than I can count or care to remember. > > I asked a VP at a large rigging company that I work for a few times a year > why are we using gunny sacks and carpet strips to? As soon as the cable take > the load it will eat right through the fabric. Oh it's an electrical > insulator. If you ever tell anyone that again I will have to someone hurt > you, as if the The real electricians/squeeks, find that out all the chains, > will have to be bonds to the structure. Ok, I read that six times and I still have no idea what you are trying to say. But at least now I know what talking with marbles in your mouth looks like in print. Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:37:45 -0600 From: "Tim Catlett" Subject: Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident In-Reply-To: References:

The school has not made any claims at all in any public manner or forum. In the lawsuit documentation it does state that the school was negligent in "failing to adequately inspect the miter saws for evidence of mishandling, misuse and/or abuse by students who were allowed and/or required to use the miter saws." Unfortunately this does nothing to answer the questions about the condition of the equipment, the condition of the environment, the specific training/supervision/warning measures in place at the time of the accident, etc. Basically we are left with three different press accounts with varying details, all of which do nothing to describe WHAT actually happened. They all discuss Mr. Hawkins (and his attorney's) point of view exclusively. If the saw was not in good working order then it is basically case closed from my perspective, and yours as well I presume. None of this is discussed anywhere however. As an example of what should be done, if I may be permitted to toot my own horn, recently the Radial Arm Saw in the scene shop of the High School where I work started to fail in holding alignment and was difficult to adjust and tighten when needed. Rather than trying to do endless band-aid repairs, we scrapped it and promptly went out to buy a 12" Compound Miter Saw with laser guides. The reason we went with the miter saw is because of its safety relative to almost any other tool in the shop. The Radial Arm Saw is just too dangerous a tool to have High School students using and the guy I work with and I were always very careful about who used it, how much training they had, PPE, etc. Malfunctioning tools are bad tools, plain and simple, and agreed. Please see my other email coming soon, where I make a request of all of you regarding the tools in a shop. -- Tim Catlett Asst. Technical Director - Shorewood High School Drama Technical Director - Milwaukee Shakespeare Director of Outreach/Membership - ISETSA (International Secondary Education Theatre Health & Safety Association) Cell: 414.975.4424 EMAIL: catlett.lizardsdream [at] gmail.com On 1/12/07, brooklyn [at] dopher.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I don't think anybody has yet mentioned the possibility that the saw > was not in good working order. Despite the obvious dangers of a > miter saw, there are non-obvious ones as well. (By the way, was this > a miter saw, a chop saw, or a mitering chop saw?) For instance, if > the springs and adjustments that return the blade to an up and > guarded position are not working right, the head of the machine can > drop suddenly in an unexpected way. If the student has never used > the saw before, this could take him very much by surprise and lead to > an accident, especially if he's seen someone else use the saw who, > knowing about the defect, exhibits control and ease of use - the > student would not suspect the saw to be difficult to control. Did > this saw have a guard? Does it open and close at the right time? > Was the miter lock actually locked down; did the saw swing side to > side unexpectedly? I have not seen anything yet where the school > claims the saw itself was in perfect operational order. A tool in > good shape is a lot safer to use, even for a novice, than one with > defects. > > Cris Dopher > ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070112164823.00c77528 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:48:23 From: CB Subject: Posting Ed While it was written for a gamers forum, it is so, so applicable here: Frank, you have to sit throught the entire thing just like I did. It isn't that long. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:16:21 -0500 Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: On 1/12/07 5:41 PM, "Brian Munroe" wrote: > What would be the correct way to use a steel sling as a safety to a spanset? Wrap through a shackle comoing out of the chain hoist hook and around the entire truss. The trick is to make sure the sling is tight to the truss. Most times the sling has 2-3 feet of slop in it. If a roundsling fails and the truss can fall 2 -3 feet, it'll blow right through the steel sling. Zat help? Bill S. ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre ETCP Council Member www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile ------------------------------ Message-ID: <7b8450b90701121629q6f8279ddr764148d935782898 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:29:35 -0800 From: Myself Subject: Re: Posting Ed In-Reply-To: References: CB, Stickies are not why all the kids laugh at you. Sorry. Mark-O On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:48:23, CB wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > While it was written for a gamers forum, it is so, so applicable here: > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 19:33:40 -0500 Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: On 1/12/07 6:05 PM, "Brian Munroe" wrote: > What happens when the rigger points out the problem to the venue and > they do not address the problem? What should the rigger do next? I don't know about other folks, but when a bad situation arises, like the one I described the other day, I evaluate the situation and act in what I feel would be the best possible way to achieve whatever I think is required. In other words, there is no pat answer. Not only does the situation change from day to day and theatre to theatre, but it also depends on the various personalities involved. > > And I have to disagree about the venue having to have rigging supplies > for the incoming production to use. You would not expect the venue to > have replacement moving lights, or microphones or keyboards for > someone to use, why should they have spansets/steel/etc? I can see > the venue having some stuff on hand that they would normally use for > replacement/maintenance of their own equipment, but not necessarily > enough spansets to replace a complete set on trusses. That's cool. I respect your right to disagree. But, to use your comparison, when a mover or a microphone doesn't work it seldom means a potentially lethal accident. I maintain that a venue has to take responsibility for it's customers, technicians and performers well being. To put people at risk because the venue didn't have a half dozen 6' roundslings (what...about $12 each?) in stock is, IMHO, negligent bordering on criminal. > > Having a vendor nearby would be great, but what about when the show > plays Cow Town, Kansas? No offense meant to any Kansans. What, there are no vendors in Kansas? I think you might want to check out one of multitudinous and ever present directories that are out there. (I love that word multitudinous. It just kinda rolls of the tongue, doesn't it?) > And realistically, does every show out there check their spansets > daily before use? I don't know about other folks, but we do. Granted, we don't do a lot of touring. We do mostly one offs. The slings get checked when they go out of the shop, they get looked at in the field and they get checked when they come back. It's common sense and it's the law. Just because it's not enforced doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. > > Bill, you mentioned not being greedy with the rental price. I have > played houses where the try to sell/rent me stuff that I left beyond > the last time I played there. Yeah, I know. Mark your gear and when it shows up the following year take it back and thank them for keeping it safe for you. Someone has to start taking the high road. > > A pet peeve of mine- How many shows have you done where the rigging on > the scenery was "adequate", but the scenery itself was ready to fall > apart? Then it does not get hung. Bill S. ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre ETCP Council Member www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:25:39 -0800 Message-ID: <44FC1DD5E9E93D4F9D4C289DF28F7C3F2E0294 [at] thinkwellsbs.ThinkWell.corp> From: "Michael Finney" Chip Wood wrote: <> If it's like most of the televised late afternoon games I've worked in stadiums with retractable roofs, it came down to consistent and predictable lighting across the entire field for the broadcast cameras. For instance, there was discussion of leaving the roof open in Houston for the Superbowl a couple of years ago, but the decision was made two or three days before game day to not take the chance. Just think of all those afternoon games you've seen broadcast where part of the field was too dark to see and the rest was too bright...nobody wants that on a game that's supposed to pull in a big audience..... But jeeeeez the mechanism on the Phoenix stadium is sweet...that's one I'd be willing to take the chance on using just before game time as part of the pre-game show! Michael Finney Thinkwell Design & Production mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com www.thinkwelldesign.com=20 ------------------------------ Subject: Stephens Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:38:35 -0800 Message-ID: <1A87029E308B1B45BAED2E635A2C9D4A015D6B61 [at] mail.CSD509J.NET> In-Reply-To: From: "Wyatt, Elizabeth" Cc: kl.latham [at] gmail.com Brian: I too am an alum of Stephens ('86) and speaking as one of the more ...ummm butch student body.... didn't we date? Elizabeth Wyatt Manager of District Theaters Corvallis School District 509J Direct: 541-750-7990 Fax: 541-750-7989 www.corvallistheaters.com "if you can't be a good example, at least be a horrible warning...." Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:05:35 -0800 (PST) From: b Ricie Subject: Stephens College (eek a man) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <321192.66194.qm [at] web50610.mail.yahoo.com> >>Just curious, but how is it that you're an alum of an all-womens'=20 college, Brian?<< I added an "A" to the end of my first name, shaved my legs and put curlers in my hair for a few years. I was not pretty, but I did fit in well with the more....umm...butch student body....=20 Brian Rice 508-685-0716 b_ricie [at] yahoo.com "Blessed are the cracked: For it is they who let in the ------------------------------ From: "Jon Lagerquist" Cc: Ben.Hain [at] roch.edu (Ben Hain) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:42:04 -0800 Subject: Re: MDF flooring Reply-to: jon [at] lagerquist.com Message-ID: <45A7C86C.13502.C2A94F2 [at] jon.lagerquist.com> In-reply-to: References: Well in my section of the world 1/4" MDF is less expensive per sheet than 1/4" double (fully, two side) tempered hardboard (masonite). My long term floors are masonite, but the MDF floors we do for shows generally seem to hold up well. Neither is what I would call a structural material to really deal with level differences. Both will adapt to a gentle roll and eventually crack at a level change. MDF seems to be a bit more resistant to moisture related shape changes, but we do not tend to have issues with that here. If there are issues with the sub floor you are best to spend your time and resources to fix that first. Or it will come back to haunt you. If you fix it you will get more life out of less expensive materials. Jon > My question to the list is this: my actual stage floor is kinda rough > with all the joints at traps and orchestra pit line. I've tried to level > it as best as possible, but how much give will the MDF have at these > places; will it crack? Would I really be better off sticking with > masonite or other brand of tempered hardboard? Jon Lagerquist Technical Director [at] South Coast Repertory Costa Mesa, CA ------------------------------ Subject: Stephens Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 17:48:59 -0800 Message-ID: <1A87029E308B1B45BAED2E635A2C9D4A015D6B62 [at] mail.CSD509J.NET> In-Reply-To: From: "Wyatt, Elizabeth" Cc: kl.latham [at] gmail.com And, FYI, Stephens has been consistently ranked in the top 5 theater schools by the URTA for years. I personally teched Sarah Vaughn, Alvin Ailey, and Twyla Tharp in the road house and did countless other plays in four years at the proscenium, black box theater and summer camps as a young college gal. Can't say enough about the school, program, or the teachers.... Definitely great prep for the real world. Just a note - the boys were busy! As busy say as perhaps the more um... "butch" women at an all girl's college.... I will say no more..... =20 =20 Elizabeth Wyatt Manager of District Theaters Corvallis School District 509J Direct: 541-750-7990 Fax: 541-750-7989 www.corvallistheaters.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45A83D81.60001 [at] audiovisualdevices.com.au> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:01:37 +1000 From: David Duffy Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates References: In-Reply-To: Michael Finney wrote: > Chip Wood wrote: > > < also has a retractable roof, but despite perfect AZ winter weather, > remained closed for all of them !???? Why did I have to pay for the > retractable part?>> > > If it's like most of the televised late afternoon games I've worked in > stadiums with retractable roofs, it came down to consistent and > predictable lighting across the entire field for the broadcast cameras. > For instance, there was discussion of leaving the roof open in Houston > for the Superbowl a couple of years ago, but the decision was made two > or three days before game day to not take the chance. Just think of all > those afternoon games you've seen broadcast where part of the field was > too dark to see and the rest was too bright...nobody wants that on a > game that's supposed to pull in a big audience..... > Is the light level really that much of a problem. In Australia the major cricket grounds are all open and use lighting towers when the natural light drops. The TV broadcasts always look perfectly fine to me. David.... -- ___________________________________________ David Duffy Audio Visual Devices P/L Unit 8, 10 Hook St, Capalaba 4157 Australia Ph: +61 7 38235717 Fax: +61 7 38234717 New Web: www.audiovisualdevices.com.au ___________________________________________ ------------------------------ Message-ID: <01a601c736b7$ede3e8c0$e28aaa43 [at] DonTaco> From: "Don Taco" References:

Subject: Re: stacking/truss most spansets with Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:09:55 -0800 From: "Occy" > > Ok unless you where there you don't KNOW nor do I been/done the > arena/Broadway tour system. Most of the time the spansets that are left on > the truss, if they leave them on the truss are for sub structure stuff, > ones > left on the truss are protected most of the time by the cabling being > piled > on the truss. How many rigging/lighting companies use spacers between each > row of truss? More than I can count or care to remember. > > I asked a VP at a large rigging company that I work for a few times a year > why are we using gunny sacks and carpet strips to? As soon as the cable > take > the load it will eat right through the fabric. Oh it's an electrical > insulator. If you ever tell anyone that again I will have to someone hurt > you, as if the The real electricians/squeeks, find that out all the > chains, > will have to be bonds to the structure. > Subject Verb Object. It's not just a good idea. Give it a try. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:22:58 -0800 (PST) From: Al Fitch Subject: Re: Chopsaw and safety In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <285343.27372.qm [at] web84014.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > > > Respect is good... fear is not. > > What i am learning in my education classwork is that a little fear is good. The adrenaline from the fear of the unknown keeps the student's attention for fear of missing important information. > > Three notes : I say mostly women above because > that's my experience. > It just seems that more guys then girls got to play > with power tools > as kids and that unfamiliarity seems to translate > into fear. My experience is that kids *18* are not particularly interested in anything that has the word "work" in it. My former life as Shop TEchnician found many a boy not willing to touch a powertool for fear of not being able to handle it. I was able to talk to most of the female students and determine that they would be interested if taught properly and after the training they got into using power tools (cordless drills and radial arm saw mostly). I found the boys were not so open to the idea. Be Kind, Smile and Have Fun. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:28:37 -0800 (PST) From: Al Fitch Subject: Re: students and miter saws In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <332108.96916.qm [at] web84013.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Why is it "crazy"? Are students less capable of learning to use power > equipment safely now than they were 40 years ago? I believe they are less interested. Al Fitch Be Kind, Smile and Have Fun. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 02:35:00 +0000 From: "Tony Miller" Subject: Re: Re: stacking truss on spansets In-Reply-To: References:

As always you are right Bill, that is common practice here in Europe. Although I have never found it written down anywhere it is common practice for any static load to be supported by a second point from the roof by a steel. This is always understood to be because in the event of a fire a spanset can possibly melt causing a catastrophic failure. As a non-rigger who makes part of his living from working as a Health and Safety Consultant it does seem to make make perfect sense to add that extra element of safety and I wonder why you don't go down that road. Tony Miller. On 12/01/07, Bill Sapsis wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Not in the US, Tony. Now, before everyone else gets all crazy on me, Tony > is talking (Tony, correct me if I'm wrong) about hanging a second point from > the roof steel for a static load. It's a very common, and required, > practice in many places but not here in the USA. > > What is used to back up the spanset is a steel sling aound the truss and the > hoist hook. This is done here in the US but most of the time done > incorrectly. Which is why LiftAll developed the SteelFlex Roundsling. > Polyester shell and steel wire rope core. > > Bill S. > ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre > ETCP Council Member > www.sapsis-rigging.com > 800.727.7471 > 267.278.4561 mobile > > > > > > > On 1/12/07 12:52 PM, "Tony Miller" wrote: > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > One thing that has not been mentioned in this thread is the use of > > steel safeties. Is it not common practice to safety off any hanging > > pieces with steels? I understand that most of the strain will be > > placed when flying a piece in or out but I'm surprised there has been > > no mention at all of safeties on a static load. > > > > Just wondering why > > > > Tony Miller. > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001d01c736be$c47a8b40$0400000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:58:56 -0800 > AZ resorts are the > only place I've ever gigged where I was in danger of frostbite. At one > show, my lips were blue and cyanotic, and my fingertips were white and > numb. It was August, and the temp outside was 109 F. Same in the South. I designed a couple of gigs in Mississippi (in the summer), and those folk love their AC. It was 90+ degrees, with 90+ percent humidity outside, but inside was a balmy 65 Farenheit. Us "foreigners" needed to go outside to get color back in our skin. We'd wear parkas inside, and as I'd step outside, my sunglasses and my script would immediately fog up. (Well, the vinyl 3-ring binder holding my script would.) - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:08:16 -0500 From: "Brian Munroe" Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets In-Reply-To: References:

On 1/12/07, Tony Miller wrote: > As always you are right Bill, that is common practice here in Europe. > Although I have never found it written down anywhere it is common > practice for any static load to be supported by a second point from > the roof by a steel. This is always understood to be because in the > event of a fire a spanset can possibly melt causing a catastrophic > failure. > > As a non-rigger who makes part of his living from working as a Health > and Safety Consultant it does seem to make make perfect sense to add > that extra element of safety and I wonder why you don't go down that > road. Time and Money. Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:19:39 -0500 From: "Brian Munroe" Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets In-Reply-To: References:

On 1/12/07, Bill Sapsis wrote: > Wrap through a shackle comoing out of the chain hoist hook and around the > entire truss. The trick is to make sure the sling is tight to the truss. > Most times the sling has 2-3 feet of slop in it. If a roundsling fails and > the truss can fall 2 -3 feet, it'll blow right through the steel sling. That is what I usually do, except the shackle closing the sling is outside the hook and I clip the steel safety into the hook. You are right that it is tough to get a tight sling around the truss. Not so easy to take an extra wrap with a steel sling to loose 6". I much prefer the GAC Flex/Steel Flex slings on trusses. Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:23:14 -0500 From: "Brian Munroe" Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates In-Reply-To: References:

On 1/12/07, Jon Ares wrote: > Same in the South. I designed a couple of gigs in Mississippi (in the > summer), and those folk love their AC. It was 90+ degrees, with 90+ percent > humidity outside, but inside was a balmy 65 Farenheit. Us "foreigners" > needed to go outside to get color back in our skin. We'd wear parkas > inside, and as I'd step outside, my sunglasses and my script would > immediately fog up. (Well, the vinyl 3-ring binder holding my script > would.) Runnng Automation on "Curtains" at the Ahmanson Theatre in LA this past summer. Us North Easterners had to build a tent on stage to deflect the AC away from console land and we still had to wear sweat jackets. Brrr. Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 03:51:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007, Brian Munroe wrote: > Runnng Automation on "Curtains" at the Ahmanson Theatre in LA this Using the generic term 'automation' with the assumption that everyone 'automatically' knows it refers to the programming of automated rigging systems really bugs me... why? hmmmmm... well, if you aren't aware of it, automation can be found in all sorts of other areas ;-) > past summer. Us North Easterners had to build a tent on stage to > deflect the AC away from console land and we still had to wear sweat > jackets. Brrr. That said, it is a common practice in venues where the HVAC systems are extremely noisy to precool (or heat) facilities before the show starts and then switch it off so the audience can hear it then hope it remains comfortable at least till the interval... Charlie ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 00:09:39 -0500 From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: Posting Ed In-Reply-To: References:

> Stickies are not why all the kids laugh at you. Sorry. S'why they all laughed at me...but I showed them. Didn't I? Oooh. Sorry. I didn't mean to say that out loud. Wrong stickies, anyway. Didn't mean to say that out loud, either. Damn. ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #1087 ******************************