Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 41199547; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 03:02:45 -0800 X-List-Processed: mail.prxy.net X-ListMember: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 41199546; Sun, 14 Jan 2007 03:02:45 -0800 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS,SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on localhost X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: List-Archive: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #1089 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 03:01:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #1089 1. Re: stacking truss on spansets by Bill Sapsis 2. Re: stacking truss on spansets by Bill Sapsis 3. Re: Osram EHG lamps vs. Altman 360Q sockets by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 4. Purple and Green spansets (was stacking truss) by Samuel Jones 5. Stephens by b Ricie 6. Stephens by b Ricie 7. Edible Berries by Jamie LeBlanc 8. Re: Stephens by Herrick Goldman 9. Re: Edible Berries by Pat Kight 10. OT from RE: Sales/Install Question by Mick Alderson 11. Re: Motivating students to use power tools by Mick Alderson 12. Re: Chopsaw and safety by CB 13. Re: Chopsaw and safety by Rigger 14. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by CB 15. Re: Steven E. Hawkins v. The Waynesburg College by CB 16. Re: Purple and Green spansets (was stacking truss) by Bill Sapsis 17. Re: Motivating students to use power tools by "Scott Parker" 18. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by CB 19. Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident by CB 20. Converting 70v Paging System by CB 21. Re: Purple and Green spansets (was stacking truss) by Rigger 22. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by "RD" 23. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by "RD" 24. Re: Chopsaw and safety by "RD" 25. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by "RD" 26. Re: Chopsaw and safety by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 27. Re: Roscolux 119 by MartySrq [at] aol.com 28. Re: Purple and Green spansets (was stacking truss) by "Joel Harari" 29. Re: stacking truss on spansets by "Occy" 30. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by "Occy" 31. Re: New questions by "Occy" 32. Re: stacking truss on spansets by "Occy" 33. Re: Osram EHG lamps vs. Altman 360Q socket by Brian Aldous 34. Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates by "Occy" 35. Re: stacking truss on spansets by "Occy" 36. Re: Chopsaw and safety by Andy Ciddor 37. Re: New questions by Bruce Purdy 38. Re: Edible Berries by Dale Farmer 39. Stadium Lighting (was Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates) by "Michael Finney" 40. Re: New questions by "Bill Nelson" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 07:53:57 -0500 Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I stand corrected. (Oh well. Why would I know the catalog price? When I need one I go back and take one. <>) Thanks for the update. Bill S ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre ETCP Council Member www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile On 1/13/07 12:14 AM, "Samuel Jones" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > On Jan 12, 2007, at 4:33 PM, Bill Sapsis wrote: > >> To put people at risk because the venue didn't have a half dozen 6' >> roundslings (what...about $12 each?) in stock is, IMHO, negligent >> bordering >> on criminal. > > According to the Sapsis Rigging catalog $16.70. > > Sam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 08:05:09 -0500 Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Actually, after checking my own website, the price for an EN60 (green) roundsling, with or without a black cover, is $20.70. The price Sam quoted is for a purple 6'. Common practice in the USA is to use a green rated sling for a chain hoist load up to and including 1-ton. The purple ones don't get used with hoists. At least I never see them used that way. But even at $20.70 that's awfully cheap insurance. Just my $.02 worth. (or is that $20.70???) YMMV Bill S. ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre ETCP Council Member www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile On 1/13/07 12:14 AM, "Samuel Jones" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > On Jan 12, 2007, at 4:33 PM, Bill Sapsis wrote: > >> To put people at risk because the venue didn't have a half dozen 6' >> roundslings (what...about $12 each?) in stock is, IMHO, negligent >> bordering >> on criminal. > > According to the Sapsis Rigging catalog $16.70. > > Sam ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Osram EHG lamps vs. Altman 360Q sockets Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 09:12:40 -0500 Message-ID: <000201c7371c$e2d28d50$6501a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > Any suggestions that don't include > removing the sheet metal that covers the top of the socket? "Boss, our old, obsolete fixtures won't accept the lamps we can get nowadays, We need to totally replace our inventory with Source 4s." ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <8467CE51-89C0-4B5C-BCB2-2DDED1752BD6 [at] ucla.edu> From: Samuel Jones Subject: Purple and Green spansets (was stacking truss) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 08:23:32 -0800 I realize that my reply lost its tongue in cheek attitude in print. Sorry about that. I do have a question about your comment below. I have 18 pairs of 1/2-ton hoists in my facility hoisting 18 sticks of 12" truss. They are attached with a cast fitting and not spansets. Would there be anything wrong with using purple slings with 1/2-ton motors? Their WLL is 2100 lbs with a choker attachment (which I would not use) and 5200 lbs using a basket attachment. I don't know what the design factors are with the spansets, and I don't want to know, but it would seem that there would be a motor failure before a sling failure. I understand that stronger is better, but once you get passed the safety threshold, you get to consider other factors. Do purple slings not get passed the safety threshold with 1/2-ton motors? While writing this, I remember that the vast majority of spansets that I've seen in field have been yellow which have a 6700 - 16000 lb capacity depending on attachment method, but that has been a casual observation of a few rigs that I wasn't setting up. Sam Samuel L. Jones Technical Director, Dance Program, Dept. of World Arts and Cultures, UCLA. sjones [at] arts.ucla.edu (310) 207-0392 (home) (310) 825-5823 (office) (310) 993-4172 (cell) On Jan 13, 2007, at 5:05 AM, Bill Sapsis wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see stagecraft.theprices.net/> > --------------------------------------------------- > > Actually, after checking my own website, the price for an EN60 (green) > roundsling, with or without a black cover, is $20.70. The price > Sam quoted > is for a purple 6'. Common practice in the USA is to use a green > rated > sling for a chain hoist load up to and including 1-ton. The purple > ones > don't get used with hoists. At least I never see them used that way. > > But even at $20.70 that's awfully cheap insurance. > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 08:24:40 -0800 (PST) From: b Ricie Subject: Stephens In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <182105.4915.qm [at] web50604.mail.yahoo.com> >>Brian: I too am an alum of Stephens ('86) and speaking as one of the more ...ummm butch student body.... didn't we date?<< Why Yes! Yes we did. Don't you remember? It was total bliss until you found out my secret. I will never forget that awkward moment, you were coming up from the cafe and caught me leaving the men's room... I hope you did not take offense to my "butch" comment. Some of the "more butch" ladies were some of my best friends while at Stephens. Brian Rice 508-685-0716 b_ricie [at] yahoo.com "Blessed are the cracked: For it is they who let in the light." ____________________________________________________________________________________ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 08:33:31 -0800 (PST) From: b Ricie Subject: Stephens In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <510753.45127.qm [at] web50607.mail.yahoo.com> >>Just a note - the boys were busy! As busy say as perhaps the more um... "butch" women at an all girl's college.... I will say no more.....<<< Yes we were. course load, required shop hours, weekend work, homework and on top of it all part/full time jobs (needed that money thing). There was a reason we referred to ourselves as the Stephen's College Slaves. One of the best experiences of my life. Brian Rice 508-685-0716 b_ricie [at] yahoo.com "Blessed are the cracked: For it is they who let in the light." ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 09:01:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jamie LeBlanc Reply-To: plainsimplegarak [at] yahoo.com Subject: Edible Berries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4180.77774.qm [at] web36813.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Anyone have any good tips on making edible berries for stage use? I'm working on a production of Dancing at Lughnasa, and one of the characters has to eat handfuls of ripe bilberries (which look similar to blueberries) and wipe them on her costume, but in Vermont blueberries are unseasonably expensive. And of course the actress doesn't want anything that would stick up her mouth or prevent her from speaking. anyone done anyting like this before? -Either you're lost...or desperatly searching for a good tailor.... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:03:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Stephens From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <17580360.1168706144715.JavaMail.root [at] m41> And then there was the co-ed jello wrestling team. Yeah we know Brian...we know. On 1/13/07 11:33 AM, "b Ricie" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Yes we were. course load, required shop hours, weekend > work, homework and on top of it all part/full time > jobs (needed that money thing). There was a reason we > referred to ourselves as the Stephen's College Slaves. > One of the best experiences of my life. -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45A91449.2040307 [at] peak.org> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 09:18:01 -0800 From: Pat Kight Subject: Re: Edible Berries References: In-Reply-To: Jamie LeBlanc wrote: > Anyone have any good tips on making edible berries for > stage use? > > I'm working on a production of Dancing at Lughnasa, > and one of the characters has to eat handfuls of ripe > bilberries (which look similar to blueberries) and > wipe them on her costume, but in Vermont blueberries > are unseasonably expensive. Even frozen ones? > > And of course the actress doesn't want anything that > would stick up her mouth or prevent her from speaking. > anyone done anyting like this before? I've simulated a variety of small foodstuffs with Jell-O, mixed up according to the directions for "wigglers" (those finger-food gelatin cubes made with less water than the usual stuff); actors usually find it palatable if not tasty, and they go down easily. I'd imagine you could chop the gelatin into very small cubes and heap them in a bowl or cup to similate berries - assuming you could color them a dark enough blue-purple. Costume - and mouth - stains would be a concern, though. -- Pat Kight kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45A91F88.9000709 [at] uwosh.edu> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:06:00 -0600 From: Mick Alderson Subject: OT from RE: Sales/Install Question Chris Babbie wrote: > Ironically, Mr. Babbie is my dad. ; > I don't get the title till he > passes. > Chris "Chris" Babbie So you are "Master" Babbie? I thought you were older than that! ;-) -- Mick Alderson TD, Fredric March Theatre Univ. of Wis. Oshkosh ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45A9253F.6080207 [at] uwosh.edu> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:30:23 -0600 From: Mick Alderson Subject: Re: Motivating students to use power tools Loren "Grits" Schreiber wrote: > I have employed the following to get disinterested students to learn > how to use power tools. The project is a simple 2' x 3' muslin > covered flat, accurate to 1/16th of an inch. They are given *4* hours > to complete the task. Those who *emote* fear of the power > tools (and I DO mean *emote* from the mostly actor types) are > instructed how to use hand saws and hand staple guns. After awhile, > they usually sidle over and ask to be shown how to use the power > tools. No longer disinterested, most become surprisingly adept at > power tool use. It works for me :-) . That's been my experience, too, although my Stagecraft "power tool" project is to make a little board 2 3/4" x 14" with a 45 degree angle on one end, a notch in the side, and a hole bored in the center. It usually involves using a tape measure, a table saw, a miter saw, a band saw, and a drill press, i.e. all the major stationary tools in the shop. I tell the students they can use the hand tools if they really don't want to use the power tools. I've had ONE student in ten years who did it that way. They also build a 2' x 3' flat as well, but that is the NEXT project. -- Mick Alderson TD, Fredric March Theatre Univ. of Wis. Oshkosh ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070113115625.00c880d0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 11:56:25 From: CB Subject: Re: Chopsaw and safety >How does one know that one does not know? What're ya, new? If one has experience and training with a subject, one knows it. One knows what one knows, all else falls into the category of ignorance. Ignorance is simply a state of not being educated in a subject, and is a state not to be confused with stupidity. There are a great many things of which I am ignorant. To practice in these things, or to converse in thes subjects with an air of experience or knowledge, is stupid. Ignorance is curable if caught early. Stupidity is going to be fatal for someone Stick that in your syllibus and see who salutes. Or, as I used to tell my apprentices; "If you don't know what you're doing, please ask. If you're pretty sure you know what you're doing, ask anyways. If you're absolutely, positively, one-hundred percent sure that you know what you're doing, drop everything and don't touch anything until you ask." Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 14:30:39 -0500 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Chopsaw and safety At 11:56 AM -0500 1/13/07, CB wrote: >Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 So much for the 2016 elections... -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net "No comment" is a comment. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070113120606.00c84a50 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:06:06 From: CB Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates >> At one show, my lips were blue and cyanotic, and my >> fingertips were white and numb. It was August, and >> the temp outside was 109 F. >Sounds like my kind of venue! It were your neighbors, sir! Really, though, I did start to lose feeling in my fingers. If they weren't on the console, they were in my pockets or under my arms. I stepped out into the heat and sunshine on every break to warm up. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070113120810.00c84a50 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:08:10 From: CB Subject: Re: Steven E. Hawkins v. The Waynesburg College >Erm... Reflexes that slow *WITH* the aid of mind-altering substances >are criminally dangerous, too. Yeah, but they're curable. As long as the reflexes get back up to speed before any work is required, I have no problem with what you do on your own time. That case wouldn't require a Darwin DNA Cleansing. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 14:43:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Purple and Green spansets (was stacking truss) From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: OK. Sling ratings. Everyone that cares about this sort of thing should go to click on Tuflex & KeyFlex Roundslings and then click on Tuflex Endless Roundslings button and also hit the button for Steelflex and Polyester Stage Slings. To quickly (I'm not getting paid for this, ya know.) answer your question...purple (EN30) has an acceptable load rating but no one that I know of would use one with a hoist. The common practice for all hoist rigs up to an including 1-ton is to use a green one (EN60). Way overkill, yes, but that's the way it has been for a long time and, frankly, I have more important battles to fight. Yellow slings are normally used for 2 ton loads and the red ones are usually seen holding up a big outdoor concert roof. I should point out that all of these slings, purple through red, are on the low end of the spectrum in the lifting industry. Liftall actually makes a Black synthetic sling that has a pull to pull rating of 90,000 pounds! And, once more with feeling, the manufacturer has already determined the "safety threshold" (ie: Design Factor). Your job is to simply not exceed the printed Working Load Limit (WLL)....ever. Hope that helps. Bill S. ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre ETCP Council Member www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile On 1/13/07 11:23 AM, "Samuel Jones" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I realize that my reply lost its tongue in cheek attitude in print. > Sorry about that. I do have a question about your comment below. I > have 18 pairs of 1/2-ton hoists in my facility hoisting 18 sticks of > 12" truss. They are attached with a cast fitting and not spansets. > Would there be anything wrong with using purple slings with 1/2-ton > motors? Their WLL is 2100 lbs with a choker attachment (which I > would not use) and 5200 lbs using a basket attachment. I don't know > what the design factors are with the spansets, and I don't want to > know, but it would seem that there would be a motor failure before a > sling failure. I understand that stronger is better, but once you > get passed the safety threshold, you get to consider other factors. > Do purple slings not get passed the safety threshold with 1/2-ton > motors? While writing this, I remember that the vast majority of > spansets that I've seen in field have been yellow which have a 6700 - > 16000 lb capacity depending on attachment method, but that has been a > casual observation of a few rigs that I wasn't setting up. > > Sam > > Samuel L. Jones > Technical Director, > Dance Program, Dept. of World Arts and Cultures, UCLA. > sjones [at] arts.ucla.edu > (310) 207-0392 (home) > (310) 825-5823 (office) > (310) 993-4172 (cell) > > > > > On Jan 13, 2007, at 5:05 AM, Bill Sapsis wrote: > >> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > stagecraft.theprices.net/> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> Actually, after checking my own website, the price for an EN60 (green) >> roundsling, with or without a black cover, is $20.70. The price >> Sam quoted >> is for a purple 6'. Common practice in the USA is to use a green >> rated >> sling for a chain hoist load up to and including 1-ton. The purple >> ones >> don't get used with hoists. At least I never see them used that way. >> >> But even at $20.70 that's awfully cheap insurance. >> > > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <90d9c9980701131153i2a50860dw1c148e7001acc6c6 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 14:53:42 -0500 From: "Scott Parker" Subject: Re: Motivating students to use power tools In-Reply-To: References: I like that! hand tools vs. power that is. I find that several students would prefer to use cordless tools. I send them to the hand tool cabinet as well. Scott > Loren "Grits" Schreiber wrote: > hand saws and hand staple guns. After awhile, > > they usually sidle over and ask to be shown how to use the power > > tools. No longer disinterested, most become surprisingly adept at > > power tool use. It works for me :-) . > -- Thanks and take care, Scott Scott C. Parker Professor/Technical Director Dept. of Performing Arts Dyson College of Arts and Sciences [at] Pace University Office/shipping: 41 Park Row, 1205F Mailing: 1 Pace Plaza New York, NY 10038 212-346-1423 Fax: 914-989-8425 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070113122908.00ccee18 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:29:08 From: CB Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates >Using the generic term 'automation' with the assumption that everyone >'automatically' knows it refers to the programming of automated rigging systems >really bugs me... why? hmmmmm... well, if you aren't aware of it, automation >can be found in all sorts of other areas ;-) Well, one of my first gigs at ATC was to build a box for the sound operator to stand on. It was carpentry, but sound did it. Carpenters do a lot of things the end up in the lighting dept, as well. 'Automation' is just the shorthand term for "the guys that make the stuff on the deck move automatically using motors and cables and other cool computerey stuff" which would take too long. Look, first start off by getting them to stop calling me an electrician, then we'll come up with a new industry-wide accepted term for 'automation carpenter'./ Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070113122914.00c84a50 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:29:14 From: CB Subject: Re: Student sues college over injuries in accident >I don't think anybody has yet mentioned the possibility that the saw >was not in good working order. None of the answers to your questions were ever released, and questions brought to bear went unanswered. This is kind of being the point. The attorneys in the case have been very forthcoming in the issues they want to have addressed monetarily, and have ben rather reticent to supply the 'why'. We're all a bit uncomfortable (and biased toward the school, at this point) by them asking for all of the damages without discussing fault or cause at *all*. Great questions, all, and we may change our tune when the info comes out, but their present course leaves me pointing blame their way. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20070113122919.00c880d0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 12:29:19 From: CB Subject: Converting 70v Paging System >The best way is to take the signmale feeding the 70 V amp I don't know what a 'signmale' is. I meant to write 'signal'. I have no idea how it got that convoluted, nor how I missed it before sending. Insert 'signal' in the little twisted part of the brain that was trying to follow me. My bad. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 14:58:00 -0500 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Purple and Green spansets (was stacking truss) At 2:43 PM -0500 1/13/07, Bill Sapsis wrote: >To quickly (I'm not getting paid for this, ya know.) answer your >question...purple (EN30) has an acceptable load rating but no one that I >know of would use one with a hoist. I'd put a ShopStar hoist on one, and have many times in the past. OTOH a ShopStar can only lift 500lbs. -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net Anytime you hear businessmen debating "which policy is better for America", don't bend over. ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" References: Subject: RE: Inflated stadium roof deflates Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:03:51 -0700 Message-ID: <011d01c7374d$f2505970$6501a8c0 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: And so I know, how a former actress (yes we were introduced in the 70") in The Outlaw, Jane Russell, slept or made love to Billy the Kid, to keep him warm when he had pneumonia, how heat works. Gosh, is that old. Well, maybe too racy for the stagecraft group. Oops. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of CB Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 12:06 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- >> At one show, my lips were blue and cyanotic, and my >> fingertips were white and numb. It was August, and >> the temp outside was 109 F. >Sounds like my kind of venue! It were your neighbors, sir! Really, though, I did start to lose feeling in my fingers. If they weren't on the console, they were in my pockets or under my arms. I stepped out into the heat and sunshine on every break to warm up. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" References: Subject: RE: Inflated stadium roof deflates Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:03:51 -0700 Message-ID: <011e01c7374d$f29ca4b0$6501a8c0 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: O.k. I found it. The article from the NYTimes in the Science section. January 9th, probably at your local library, maybe, ?? Page D7: Surviving the Cold, or Even the Not So Cold. Excellent article, I recommend it (oops, perhaps I had better not say that, some will not look it up just because I said it would be good), oh well. It is good, and having lived in the 49 states, not Alaska yet, cold is as cold is. Please, at least read it and I believe you may find some vital info there. Dr. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of CB Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 12:06 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- >> At one show, my lips were blue and cyanotic, and my >> fingertips were white and numb. It was August, and >> the temp outside was 109 F. >Sounds like my kind of venue! It were your neighbors, sir! Really, though, I did start to lose feeling in my fingers. If they weren't on the console, they were in my pockets or under my arms. I stepped out into the heat and sunshine on every break to warm up. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" References: Subject: RE: Chopsaw and safety Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:03:51 -0700 Message-ID: <012401c7374d$f3d01ba0$6501a8c0 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: The absolutely best comment you have made in years and years. Thanks. Dr. Doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of CB Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 11:56 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Chopsaw and safety For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- >How does one know that one does not know? What're ya, new? If one has experience and training with a subject, one knows it. One knows what one knows, all else falls into the category of ignorance. Ignorance is simply a state of not being educated in a subject, and is a state not to be confused with stupidity. There are a great many things of which I am ignorant. To practice in these things, or to converse in thes subjects with an air of experience or knowledge, is stupid. Ignorance is curable if caught early. Stupidity is going to be fatal for someone Stick that in your syllibus and see who salutes. Or, as I used to tell my apprentices; "If you don't know what you're doing, please ask. If you're pretty sure you know what you're doing, ask anyways. If you're absolutely, positively, one-hundred percent sure that you know what you're doing, drop everything and don't touch anything until you ask." Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" References: Subject: RE: Inflated stadium roof deflates Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:03:51 -0700 Message-ID: <012501c7374d$f4e4bff0$6501a8c0 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: Check the Science Section of the NYTimes in the last two months, regarding just this topic, and I trust you will be duly shocked. Please try and find this topic, and I will too. Very informative and a tad scary. Dr. Doom What cold does, and note the ages and degrees they speak about. -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of CB Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 12:06 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- >> At one show, my lips were blue and cyanotic, and my >> fingertips were white and numb. It was August, and >> the temp outside was 109 F. >Sounds like my kind of venue! It were your neighbors, sir! Really, though, I did start to lose feeling in my fingers. If they weren't on the console, they were in my pockets or under my arms. I stepped out into the heat and sunshine on every break to warm up. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... Nehemiah Scudder for President in 2012 ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 20:12:09 GMT Subject: Re: Chopsaw and safety Message-Id: <20070113.121224.8266.1085583 [at] webmail37.lax.untd.com> Dear Randy, I concur with your assessment. /s/ Richard _________________________________ The absolutely best comment you have made in years and years. Thanks. = Dr. Doom = ____________________________ >How does one know that one does not know? What're ya, new? If one has experience and training with a subject, = one knows it. One knows what one knows, all else falls into the = category of ignorance. Ignorance is simply a state of not being = educated in a subject, and is a state not to be confused with = stupidity. There are a great many things of which I am ignorant. To = practice in these things, or to converse in thes subjects with an air = of experience or knowledge, is stupid. Ignorance is curable if caught = early. Stupidity is going to be fatal for someone Stick that in your = syllibus and see who salutes. Or, as I used to tell my apprentices; "If you don't know what you're doing, please ask. If you're pretty = sure you know what you're doing, ask anyways. If you're absolutely, = positively, one-hundred percent sure that you know what you're doing, = drop everything and don't touch anything until you ask." Chris "Chris" Babbie ------------------------------ From: MartySrq [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 15:47:34 EST Subject: Re: Roscolux 119 Am I nuts or is the current R119 not the same as it used to be? Seems less diffuse and closer to R132 than it was. I ended up doubling it up on a recent production to fuzz out cut lines and managed to find old stock that appeared different than the latest stuff shipped. Anyone else who used it recently notice this? Marty ------------------------------ From: "Joel Harari" References:

Subject: RE: Purple and Green spansets (was stacking truss) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 15:15:22 -0800 Message-ID: <000301c73768$b326f630$c007ae4c [at] Tigger> In-Reply-To: While color is an easy and helpful tool to help identify spansets I encourage everyone to double check the tags. At one of my jobs we have our spansets custom made with different color jackets for aesthetic reasons. This almost cause a big problem one night. Joel Harari -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Sapsis Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 11:44 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Purple and Green spansets (was stacking truss) For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- OK. Sling ratings. Everyone that cares about this sort of thing should go to click on Tuflex & KeyFlex Roundslings and then click on Tuflex Endless Roundslings button and also hit the button for Steelflex and Polyester Stage Slings. To quickly (I'm not getting paid for this, ya know.) answer your question...purple (EN30) has an acceptable load rating but no one that I know of would use one with a hoist. The common practice for all hoist rigs up to an including 1-ton is to use a green one (EN60). Way overkill, yes, but that's the way it has been for a long time and, frankly, I have more important battles to fight. Yellow slings are normally used for 2 ton loads and the red ones are usually seen holding up a big outdoor concert roof. I should point out that all of these slings, purple through red, are on the low end of the spectrum in the lifting industry. Liftall actually makes a Black synthetic sling that has a pull to pull rating of 90,000 pounds! And, once more with feeling, the manufacturer has already determined the "safety threshold" (ie: Design Factor). Your job is to simply not exceed the printed Working Load Limit (WLL)....ever. Hope that helps. Bill S. ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre ETCP Council Member www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile On 1/13/07 11:23 AM, "Samuel Jones" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I realize that my reply lost its tongue in cheek attitude in print. > Sorry about that. I do have a question about your comment below. I > have 18 pairs of 1/2-ton hoists in my facility hoisting 18 sticks of > 12" truss. They are attached with a cast fitting and not spansets. > Would there be anything wrong with using purple slings with 1/2-ton > motors? Their WLL is 2100 lbs with a choker attachment (which I > would not use) and 5200 lbs using a basket attachment. I don't know > what the design factors are with the spansets, and I don't want to > know, but it would seem that there would be a motor failure before a > sling failure. I understand that stronger is better, but once you > get passed the safety threshold, you get to consider other factors. > Do purple slings not get passed the safety threshold with 1/2-ton > motors? While writing this, I remember that the vast majority of > spansets that I've seen in field have been yellow which have a 6700 - > 16000 lb capacity depending on attachment method, but that has been a > casual observation of a few rigs that I wasn't setting up. > > Sam > > Samuel L. Jones > Technical Director, > Dance Program, Dept. of World Arts and Cultures, UCLA. > sjones [at] arts.ucla.edu > (310) 207-0392 (home) > (310) 825-5823 (office) > (310) 993-4172 (cell) > > > > > On Jan 13, 2007, at 5:05 AM, Bill Sapsis wrote: > >> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > stagecraft.theprices.net/> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> Actually, after checking my own website, the price for an EN60 (green) >> roundsling, with or without a black cover, is $20.70. The price >> Sam quoted >> is for a purple 6'. Common practice in the USA is to use a green >> rated >> sling for a chain hoist load up to and including 1-ton. The purple >> ones >> don't get used with hoists. At least I never see them used that way. >> >> But even at $20.70 that's awfully cheap insurance. >> > > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References: Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:45:00 -0800 Not if you work for a West Coast Rigging company that backs up all the way from the hang point to the truss with steel. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Sapsis" > --------------------------------------------------- > > Not in the US, Tony. Now, before everyone else gets all crazy on me, Tony > is talking (Tony, correct me if I'm wrong) about hanging a second point > from > the roof steel for a static load. It's a very common, and required, > practice in many places but not here in the USA. > > What is used to back up the spanset is a steel sling aound the truss and > the > hoist hook. This is done here in the US but most of the time done > incorrectly. Which is why LiftAll developed the SteelFlex Roundsling. > Polyester shell and steel wire rope core. > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:17:52 -0800 Oh yes we do in So Cali... No patrons no HVAC... And that's even if it is in the rental contract of the building.. so you freeze in the winter and sweat heavily in the summer as there is no air flow either. Then on another install in a new theme park where we had a 12X12 hole cut in the wall to the get a lift in the building in the summer time and it 40 degrees in building and looking out the hole was 104 degrees, had to wear sweatshirts and jackets inside the building. Well this one was doing a live sat feed/show in an attraction with the guy that drove the pathfinder on mars, at 3-8am and everyone had to go out side to warm up and no the driver didn't have that much light on him to keep him warm, I still feel sorry for him even to this day. WE will never ever even get in to rain shows!~!~!~! ----- Original Message ----- > Yoy obviously dont get venues like the Dubai world trade centre then > > where they only turn the air con on the day before a show / event, so > > a 4 day build will have 3 days of no aircon , lovely in August. > At the moment night time temp is 12c so we are all looking for heaters > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References: Subject: Re: New questions Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:24:49 -0800 That might of worked in the old days... these days all the sensors are in the HVAC return ducts, for last 20 years, and very hard to find. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Marsland" > --------------------------------------------------- > > I had similar thoughts, but my fixes involved a small > propane torch and a CO2 fire extinguisher! > > Paul > > > well, if you need to fool the sensors, shining a > > light just below the > > thermostat to get more cool in the hot weather, and > > rigging a small fan > > with a damp cloth to get more heat in the cold > > weather work. > > > > --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:32:05 -0800 My rule has always been "Bring everything and some times the air too" if you don't bring it you don't have it and don't expect to find it even in so cali. Yes Brian, I love it when people try to rent or sell me stuff that I threw away. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Munroe" > --------------------------------------------------- > > On 1/12/07, Bill Sapsis wrote: > > > Bruce. My bad. I wasn't being clear. The rigger did his job by > > pointing > > out the problem. The venue should have stepped in at that point and > > solved > > it. They're the ones that should have the emergency stock or the backup > > vendor. To expect the rigger to have that gear is wrong and for the > > venue > > to not have anything is, IMO darn near criminal. > > What happens when the rigger points out the problem to the venue and > they do not address the problem? What should the rigger do next? > > And I have to disagree about the venue having to have rigging supplies > for the incoming production to use. You would not expect the venue to > have replacement moving lights, or microphones or keyboards for > someone to use, why should they have spansets/steel/etc? I can see > the venue having some stuff on hand that they would normally use for > replacement/maintenance of their own equipment, but not necessarily > enough spansets to replace a complete set on trusses. > > Having a vendor nearby would be great, but what about when the show > plays Cow Town, Kansas? No offense meant to any Kansans. > > And realistically, does every show out there check their spansets > daily before use? > > Bill, you mentioned not being greedy with the rental price. I have > played houses where the try to sell/rent me stuff that I left beyond > the last time I played there. > > A pet peeve of mine- How many shows have you done where the rigging on > the scenery was "adequate", but the scenery itself was ready to fall > apart? > > Brian Munroe > bpmunroe [at] gmail.com > ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <78387CC8-02EA-40D5-B6C7-C53BB552109D [at] tany.com> From: Brian Aldous Subject: Re: Osram EHG lamps vs. Altman 360Q socket Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:47:35 -0500 you are correct. Maybe someone needs to complain to Osram? BA Brian Aldous Lighting Design brian [at] tany.com On Jan 13, 2007, at 6:00 AM, Stagecraft wrote: > Subject: Re: Osram EHG lamps vs. Altman 360Q sockets > From: "Bill Nelson" > >> We have noticed with a recent batch of Osram EHG (750w) lamps that >> they >> don't fit into the bases of our old Altman 360Q fixtures. It seems >> like >> the lamp bases are now formed with sharper corners, as opposed to the >> rounded off corners they used to have. >> >> Anyone else notice this? Any suggestions that don't include >> removing the >> sheet metal that covers the top of the socket? Could I sand the >> corners >> down a smidge? > > Sanding might be a bit slow, but you might be able to file a bit off. > > I seem to recall that there is a similar problem with the 575W > Osram lamps > for the S4 instruments. The ceramic base is apparently slightly larger > than the original metal heatsink base. > > Is my memory correct or am I hallucinating from lack of sleep? > > Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 18:58:13 -0800 I was there with Disney's AIDA, One time I didn't freeze in an PAC. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Munroe" > > Runnng Automation on "Curtains" at the Ahmanson Theatre in LA this > past summer. Us North Easterners had to build a tent on stage to > deflect the AC away from console land and we still had to wear sweat > jackets. Brrr. > > Brian Munroe > bpmunroe [at] gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References: Subject: Re: stacking truss on spansets Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 19:11:14 -0800 Hey Bill, Here is one for you I inherited rig with pink span sets at one in stall I got made at the pink and painted them the side that faced the house with cheap flat black...I had one rigger get upset the propmaster and the house rigger thank me. I might have been wrong but the next year I replaced them and they got used for cable picks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Sapsis" > --------------------------------------------------- > > Actually, after checking my own website, the price for an EN60 (green) > roundsling, with or without a black cover, is $20.70. The price Sam > quoted > is for a purple 6'. Common practice in the USA is to use a green rated > sling for a chain hoist load up to and including 1-ton. The purple ones > don't get used with hoists. At least I never see them used that way. > > But even at $20.70 that's awfully cheap insurance. > > Just my $.02 worth. (or is that $20.70???) > YMMV > > Bill S. > ------------------------------ Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070114152548.06a25fe8 [at] kilowatt.com.au> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:29:05 +1100 From: Andy Ciddor Subject: Re: Chopsaw and safety In-Reply-To: References: At 22:56 13.01.2007, CB wrote: >Ignorance is simply a state of not being educated in a subject, >and is a state not to be confused with stupidity. For many years now my motto has been: "I'm ignorant not stupid" This is often accompanied by the observation that ignorance is curable. Andy ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: From: Bruce Purdy Subject: Re: New questions Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 23:53:22 -0500 On 13 Jan 2007, at 21:24, Occy wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see stagecraft.theprices.net/> > --------------------------------------------------- > > That might of worked in the old days... these days all the sensors > are in > the HVAC return ducts, for last 20 years, and very hard to find. Some are, yes, but not all. In my venue, there are sensors in the intake duct measuring outside air coming in, in the return duct, on the wall of the auditorium down by the stage, on the wall at the back of the balcony, and out doors to measure the outside ambient temp. Then there is a computerised system to sort it all out. Pretty high tech. Trouble is the only manual I've ever been able to come up with is a huge looseleaf binder that covers installation of the system and you have to have a degree in HVAC to understand any of it. To change any settings you need to punch in an access code, and no one has any idea what that code is! (Over the years and changes in personnel no one ever passed the information along or wrote it down.) All I can do is turn the system ON or OFF, and program the timer to do the same. Bruce ____________________ Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45A9CA8B.2010000 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 01:15:39 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: Edible Berries References: In-Reply-To: Jamie LeBlanc wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > Anyone have any good tips on making edible berries for > stage use? > > I'm working on a production of Dancing at Lughnasa, > and one of the characters has to eat handfuls of ripe > bilberries (which look similar to blueberries) and > wipe them on her costume, but in Vermont blueberries > are unseasonably expensive. > > And of course the actress doesn't want anything that > would stick up her mouth or prevent her from speaking. > anyone done anyting like this before? > > -Either you're lost...or desperatly searching for a good tailor.... > Minimarshmallows and food dye. Make up a color and carefully spritz it on. Warning, check the food dye with your wardrobe folks to ensure it is washable from the costume. --Dale ------------------------------ Subject: Stadium Lighting (was Re: Inflated stadium roof deflates) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 22:46:35 -0800 Message-ID: <44FC1DD5E9E93D4F9D4C289DF28F7C3F2E02D9 [at] thinkwellsbs.ThinkWell.corp> From: "Michael Finney" David Duffy wrote <> Hey David: I probably explained that badly (or didn't explain it at all). The problem with the retractable roof stadiums tends to be the roof opening is relatively small (in relationship to the overall stadium) and creates something of a restricted aperture for the natural light to enter. As a result, you can end up with a variation of up to 40fc across the the field (or more) - and that isn't an even "fade", it often has a sharp "line" between the direct light area and the shadow or indirect light area. That's what really causes the problem - the uneven field. Note that it's not restricted to retractable roofs by any stretch of the imagination (a lot of stadium with high surrounding seating areas have the same sort of "shadowed field" problem), it's just that it's easier to fix in a retractable roof stadium by closing the roof and relying strictly on the artificial light. My admittedly limited experience with cricket grounds has been that they're pretty open and not as likely to experience the same sort of cast shadow from the stands. =20 =20 Michael Finney Thinkwell Design & Production mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com www.thinkwelldesign.com=20 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1053.205.215.253.16.1168765475.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 01:04:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: New questions From: "Bill Nelson" > Pretty high tech. Trouble is the only manual I've ever been able to > come up with is a huge looseleaf binder that covers installation of > the system and you have to have a degree in HVAC to understand any of > it. To change any settings you need to punch in an access code, and > no one has any idea what that code is! (Over the years and changes in > personnel no one ever passed the information along or wrote it down.) There should be some way to reset the access code to a default value. If you cannot find it in the manual, contact the manufacturer. At worst, they would have to send a technician to do the resetting. Bill ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #1089 ******************************