Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 41747294; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 03:02:57 -0800 X-List-Processed: mail.prxy.net X-ListMember: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 41747292; Sun, 28 Jan 2007 03:02:57 -0800 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on localhost X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.4 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL,BIZ_TLD, NO_RECEIVED,NO_RELAYS,PRXY_USER_BODY_AMBIEN,PRXY_USER_BODY_CIALIS, PRXY_USER_BODY_LEVITRA,SARE_BAYES_5x8,SARE_BAYES_6x8,SARE_BAYES_7x8, SARE_MILLIONSOF,SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID autolearn=no version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Level: *** X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: List-Archive: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #1114 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 03:02:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #1114 1. Re: Flying people by "Brian Munroe" 2. Re: How old ARE you people anyway? by "Paul Schreiner" 3. Re: Flying people by "Eric Rouse" 4. Re: Flying people by "Eric Rouse" 5. Re: Flying people by Bill Sapsis 6. Re: Traveling to URTA by Rigger 7. Re: Flying people by Rigger 8. Re: Flying people by Rigger 9. Re: Powered Speakers by "Joel Harari" 10. Re: Flying people by Bruce Purdy 11. Re: What To Do With Leftover Bungee Cord by Richard Bakos 12. Re: Flying people by "Eric Rouse" 13. Re: What To Do With Leftover Bungee Cord by Rigger 14. Re: All the Montclair students by 15. Re: Flying people by "RD" 16. Re: Flying people by Jim Hyslop 17. Re: **JUNK** Re: Pre-Show Announcement Have I missed anything? by Jim Hyslop 18. Re: What To Do With Leftover Bungee Cord by Bill Sapsis 19. Re: All the Montclair students by Herrick Goldman 20. Re: How old ARE you people anyway? by MissWisc [at] aol.com 21. Re: Flying people by "Brian Munroe" 22. Re: Flying people by MissWisc [at] aol.com 23. Re: Flying people by Rigger 24. Re: Flying people by "Brian Munroe" 25. Re: Introductions by Chip Wood 26. Re: Flying people by "Eric Rouse" 27. Re: Flying people by "Brian Munroe" 28. Re: Full Monty Sign by Chip Wood 29. Re: Flying people by Bill Sapsis 30. Re: All the Montclair students by Kevin Lee Allen 31. Re: Flying people by Bill Sapsis 32. Re: electricity to revolving stage by Clive Mitchell 33. Re: electricity to revolving stage by Clive Mitchell 34. Re: Flying people by Rigger 35. Re: Flying people by "Brian Munroe" 36. Re: Flying people by "Brian Munroe" 37. Re: How old ARE you people anyway? by Pat Kight 38. Re: Flying people by Stuart Wheaton 39. Re: Traveling to URTA by Mick Alderson 40. Re: How old ARE you people anyway? by "Rob Riddle" 41. Re: Flying people by "Jon Ares" 42. Re: Flying people by "Delbert Hall" 43. how old by "Michael Powers" 44. Re: Power to revolve by "John D. Palmer" 45. Crescent wrenches by "John D. Palmer" 46. Re: how old?? by Andy Ciddor 47. Re: How old ARE you people anyway? by "Paul Schreiner" 48. Re: how old?? by "Paul Schreiner" 49. Re: Flying people by "Jon Ares" 50. Re: Full Monty Sign by "Jon Ares" 51. Re: Flying people by "Jon Ares" 52. Line-set compensator diagram/picture? by Stephen Lee 53. Re: Flying people by "Occy" 54. Re: How old ARE you people anyway? by "Occy" 55. Fight Choreography (Strangulation) by "Timothy Nielsen" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:51:16 -0500 From: "Brian Munroe" Subject: Re: Flying people In-Reply-To: References:

On 1/27/07, Delbert Hall wrote: > 3) All cable terminations are swaged (no cable clips). > > 4) Ask the rigger the size of the cable that is supporting the > performers. It should be 3/32" or 1/8" I am not sure I understand the objections to cable clips (Eric had similar objections). Delbert, are you saying that all cable terminations in a system that flies people needs to be swaged? I certainly agree that the cable supporting the performing should be swaged, but what about cables that are supporting the flying system? For instance, a tracked system where the track is attached to a lineset. That lineset is probably using cable clips and not swages to terminating the system cables at the pipe and/or arbor. Is there an objection there to the clips? I met Peter Foy once, when I was in college. The tour of "Jerome Robbins' On Broadway" was teching at the PAC on campus prior to the tour. I was on the crew when we were installing the Foy rig. Very impressive stuff for a college kid. I later operated a Foy rig on tour and I hate to say that I was disappointed with the quality of the equipment. This was in '01 and I don't know how involved Peter was at that point. The flying harness was a quick release two point, and the release mechanism was held closed by little rubber bands. The performer was raised and lowered by a motor, which I operated. When I asked the Foy tech who first installed the rig what to do when the power failed or the motor broke with the performer in the air , there was no real answer on how to rescue the performer. If the motor (which we had to replace on the 2nd stop of the tour) failed with the performer in the air, the only way to get him down was to fly in the pipe holding the track. That pipe, of course, was tied off at the grid and the arbor was chained off. Not exactly a quick rescue should there be a power failure. Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:13:54 -0500 From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: How old ARE you people anyway? In-Reply-To: References:

> >> How old am I? Okay, we've had hex, octal, binary, Roman...gotta dig deep. So if 6 x 9 = 42, that'd make me 2A. Yeah, in this bunch I feel like I snap at adolescent whippers sometimes. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41f080680701271421w5f7e8b7aq515edd37192be4c5 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:21:03 -0500 From: "Eric Rouse" Cc: sdwheaton [at] fuse.net Subject: Re: Flying people In-Reply-To: References:

> Second...What is the big thing about Foy here anyhow, as far as I know, > no person who is actively involved in Foy company operations is an > active contributor to this list. Delbert Hall, and Tracy Nunnally are > both contributors to this list, and both professionals at flying people, > let's keep it local. > > Stuart Stuart, that has to be one of the most ridiculous and small-minded things I have read on this list to date and one of the reasons I don't contribute as much as I would like to. We all value Delbert and Tracy's contributions to the list, but they are not the end all and be all when it comes to flying or anything else for that matter. I don't mean to offend with that statement, I just mean that no one knows everything. Randy Doom has a long history with Foy and was merely passing on advice to a person that requested it. -- Eric Rouse TD-Penn State University State College, PA ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41f080680701271441s66fbe87du91acd0529392e459 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:41:57 -0500 From: "Eric Rouse" Subject: Re: Flying people In-Reply-To: References:

On 1/27/07, Brian Munroe wrote: > Delbert, are you saying that all cable terminations in a system that > flies people needs to be swaged? I certainly agree that the cable > supporting the performing should be swaged, but what about cables that > are supporting the flying system? > > For instance, a tracked system where the track is attached to a > lineset. That lineset is probably using cable clips and not swages to > terminating the system cables at the pipe and/or arbor. Is there an > objection there to the clips? The amount of load that each clip is seeing at each cable along the batten is not that big a deal when you are flying a person on a track. However, in the flying system there may be several points of single point failure that need to have as high a rating as possible. That's why the clips are frowned upon. How many times do you see someone install the clips with a torque wrench to the proper torque rating? > I met Peter Foy once, when I was in college. The tour of "Jerome > Robbins' On Broadway" was teching at the PAC on campus prior to the > tour. I was on the crew when we were installing the Foy rig. Very > impressive stuff for a college kid. > I later operated a Foy rig on tour and I hate to say that I was > disappointed with the quality of the equipment. You can look at any company, even those on this list, and find gigs that they have not done so great on. It happens in the real world. However, I have never known Foy (sorry Stuart) or any other flying company to send out gear that they thought would put performers in danger. The need for rescue scenarios has been around forever, but the designing of them has not really happened until the last 10 years or so. Being that it was a tour makes it even more difficult, as rescue is usually very site-specific. I am only speaking from my personal experience when I was in Vegas with Foy (sorry Stuart) and a couple other companies on the strip. I am sure we will hear from my buddy Bill S. (an approved list member, Stuart) if I am too far wrong on that one. I apologize for the small bits of sarcasm, but something has rubbed me the wrong way........ -- Eric Rouse TD-Penn State University State College, PA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:48:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Flying people From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I've never been a fan of bad mouthing anyone either here or in the real world. When someone asks me about a competitor the normal answer is that I do not discuss my competitors capabilities or lack thereof. I suspect there have been occasions over the years where I've strayed from that, but it's been rare. I prefer to discuss my own companies' capabilities rather than someone else's deficiencies. That being said, I would like to warn y'all that if this thread turns into a Foy bashing you will have me to deal with. Rational or not, that's how I feel about it. Just thought you should know. Thanks Bill S. ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre ETCP Council Member www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:49:15 -0500 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Traveling to URTA At 3:12 PM -0600 1/27/07, Kelly Smith wrote: >>Can you imagine the reaction to that dagger >>today???!!!!??? > >Speaking of objects you can't get away with taking on planes now, >about 2 years ago I was flying to New York to work on a show and had >forgotten to move my crescent wrench from my shoulder bag to my >suitcase. They discovered it at the security checkpoint and took it >away from me. It was so sad! What did they think I would do with it? The summer of '95 I flew from JFK to Kimpo in Seoul with a duffle bag full of caribiners, shackles, and Spansets. I shudder to think what they'd do to me for that today. -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net The reason they call it "The American Dream" is because you have to be asleep to believe in it. ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:46:41 -0500 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Flying people At 3:57 PM -0500 1/27/07, Stuart Wheaton wrote: > Second...What is the big thing about Foy here anyhow, as far > as I know, no person who is actively involved in Foy company > operations is an active contributor to this list. Delbert > Hall, and Tracy Nunnally are both contributors to this list, > and both professionals at flying people, let's keep it local. "Foy," I suspect, has become a generic word for "professional people-levitator" in our tiny circle, much like "Kleenex" has become a generic name for facial tissue and "Pyrodex" a generic name for black powder. That's my thought, anyway. YMMV, of course. -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net "No comment" is a comment. ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:53:48 -0500 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Flying people At 5:48 PM -0500 1/27/07, Bill Sapsis wrote: >That being said, I would like to warn y'all that if this thread turns into a >Foy bashing you will have me to deal with. ...And if that isn't enough, I'll pick up where Bill leaves off. And we sure don't want *that*, now do we? -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net Discipline is never an end in itself, only a means to an end. -- Robert Fripp ------------------------------ From: "Joel Harari" References: Subject: RE: Powered Speakers Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 15:13:02 -0800 Message-ID: <000301c74268$b266c4e0$7be3544b [at] Tigger> In-Reply-To: Look at Sound Projections, they make some nice stand alone systems and can run on internal batteries. I have never used them as monitors, but they will meet you first criteria very well. Joel Harari -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Gregg Carville Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 6:32 AM To: Stagecraft Cc: Discussion list for people working in sound for live theatre. Subject: Powered Speakers For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Hi All, We are looking at getting some powered speakers that will act as multifunction units. We are going to ask them to: act as PA speakers for small events (say less than 200 people) act as Monitors on our stage. (mainly for graduations and lecture type events) go outside for site specific events (again less than 200 people) So I was wondering if any of you all have a set of powered speakers that you would recommend. I am inclined towards powered for flexibility and ease of setup. Thank you, Gregg -- Gregg Carville Merrill Auditorium Portland, Maine ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: <1749DC26-289C-4A20-8029-7D713DC88A95 [at] rochester.rr.com> From: Bruce Purdy Subject: Re: Flying people Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:17:28 -0500 On 27 Jan 2007, at 17:21, Eric Rouse wrote: > Stuart, that has to be one of the most ridiculous and small-minded > things I have read on this list to date and one of the reasons I don't > contribute as much as I would like to. With all due respect, ????????? Are you saying that ridiculous and small minded comments by others actually dissuades you from contributing? I would humbly submit that that is all the more reason to contribute - to help raise the level of discourse. Bruce ____________________ Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45BBDFDD.3020608 [at] StudioOneSB.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:27:25 -0500 From: Richard Bakos Organization: Studio One Inc. Subject: Re: What To Do With Leftover Bungee Cord References:

In-Reply-To: I don't know I thought that was Bill driving the 4 wheeler. Todd Dupree wrote: >A friend sent me this link to a video clip - funny I don't seem to see any >of our ESTA certified riggers around this project? :) > >http://www.metacafe.com/w/386181/ > > -- Richard Bakos President Studio One Inc. 25833 State Road 2 South Bend, In 46619-4736 VOICE 574-232-9084 FAX 574-232-2220 Rick [at] StudioOneSB.com www.StudioOnesb.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41f080680701271540s273c9b7r747150efc67fbd62 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:40:45 -0500 From: "Eric Rouse" Subject: Re: Flying people In-Reply-To: References:

With all due respect, ????????? > Are you saying that ridiculous and small minded comments by others > actually dissuades you from contributing? I would humbly submit that > that is all the more reason to contribute - to help raise the level > of discourse. > > Bruce OUCH! You got me on that one. Point taken and noted! -- Eric Rouse TD-Penn State University State College, PA ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:40:53 -0500 From: Rigger Subject: Re: What To Do With Leftover Bungee Cord Todd Dupree wrote: >http://www.metacafe.com/w/386181/ Looks like fun to me... -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net Vikings? There ain't no Vikings here; just us honest farmers... The town was burning & the villagers were dead when we got here. They didn't need those sheep anyway. That's our story and we're sticking to it. ------------------------------ From: Subject: Re: Re: All the Montclair students Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 0:03:02 +0000 Message-Id: <20070128000302.RTDF26699.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [at] smtp.ntlworld.com> > > From: Kathleen McDonough > Date: 2007/01/26 Fri PM 09:36:16 GMT > To: "Stagecraft" > Subject: Re: All the Montclair students > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see Living a mere 15 minutes from the greatest city in the > world, I have my choice of world class performances at many wonderful > venues. National and local pride is no bad thing. But an element of realism is needed. As a Londoner, I have to confess that I don't know where Montclair is. I don't even know what country it is in. Frank Wood ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" References:

Subject: RE: Flying people Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:03:15 -0700 Message-ID: <005401c7426f$c832bd40$6501a8c0 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: Thank you Bill and good friends. doom -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Sapsis Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 2:08 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Flying people For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- On 1/27/07 3:57 PM, "Stuart Wheaton" wrote: > Second...What is the big thing about Foy here anyhow, as far as I know, > no person who is actively involved in Foy company operations is an > active contributor to this list. Delbert Hall, and Tracy Nunnally are > both contributors to this list, and both professionals at flying people, > let's keep it local. And that, IMHO would be a classic example of cutting your nose off to spite your face. I have no issues with Delbert or Tracy. To my knowledge they both do fine work. But you cannot dismiss a company, and by inference, a man, simply because they aren't represented here. I suspect that Randy refers to Foy because of the very long and deep relationship that he had with Peter and Peter's family. Am I right Randy? My relationship with Peter should also be well known. While I will always advocate for purchasing/dealing with the list-members first and foremost, I have not and will not advocate ignoring others simply because they do not participate here. Thanks Bill S. ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre ETCP Council Member www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile Kristi. Not a word! ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45BBE944.4060203 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:07:32 -0500 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: Flying people References:

In-Reply-To: Eric Rouse wrote: >> Second...What is the big thing about Foy here anyhow, as far as I know, >> no person who is actively involved in Foy company operations is an >> active contributor to this list. Delbert Hall, and Tracy Nunnally are >> both contributors to this list, and both professionals at flying people, >> let's keep it local. >> >> Stuart > > > We all value Delbert and > Tracy's contributions to the list, but they are not the end all and be > all when it comes to flying or anything else for that matter. I don't > mean to offend with that statement, I just mean that no one knows > everything. > > Randy Doom has a long history with Foy and was merely passing on > advice to a person that requested it. If you strip away the emotional aspects of Stuart's message, I think at the root of it is a good question. I, for one, am not a rigger, and therefore not acquainted with who is good and who is not. While Doom's (and others') recommendation of Foy would be good enough for me, I think it is reasonable to assume that Lauren is new to the list, and therefore may not know how much weight Doom, Richard, Delbert, Bill and others who've contributed carry in this regard. If I were in Lauren's position, I think it would be reasonable to ask "what makes them so good?" Also, please keep in mind the context of the original post. This is a community theatre we're talking about. My bet would be that Foy's fees would double or even triple the entire budget for the show, if not for the whole season. Foy may be the best, but not everyone can afford the best. Surely there must be other competent riggers around? -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45BBEA16.1090203 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:11:02 -0500 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: **JUNK** Re: Pre-Show Announcement Have I missed anything? References:

In-Reply-To: RD wrote: > Always a good idea ....get the drop on everyone else. doom GRROOOOOAAAAN. -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:22:34 -0500 Subject: Re: What To Do With Leftover Bungee Cord From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: On 1/27/07 6:27 PM, "Richard Bakos" wrote: > A friend sent me this link to a video clip - funny I don't seem to see any > of our ESTA certified riggers around this project? :) That's because the ETCP has a disciplinary committee for occasions like this. I know that committee and I hate to think where they would put that bungee if they found me messing with it. <> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:26:28 -0500 Subject: Re: All the Montclair students From: Herrick Goldman Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <11794677.1169942638327.JavaMail.root [at] m41> Well Frank we don't know where Londoner is either. On 1/27/07 7:03 PM, "frank.wood95 [at] ntlworld.com" wrote: > > National and local pride is no bad thing. But an element of realism is needed. > As a Londoner, I have to confess that I don't know where Montclair is. I don't > even know what country it is in. > > > Frank Wood -- Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com 917-797-3624 "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:28:31 EST Subject: Re: How old ARE you people anyway? A "lady" never reveals her age... let me just say I'm young enough to get carded yet just barely old enough to be the mom of the bouncer. Kristi ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:29:42 -0500 From: "Brian Munroe" Subject: Re: Flying people In-Reply-To: References:

On 1/27/07, Eric Rouse wrote: > How many times do you see someone > install the clips with a torque wrench to the proper torque rating? Almost never for 1/4" and smaller cable. I have recently checked some 1/4" cable clips and found most to be torqued to at least 15 ft pounds, some a little less, but none under 13 ft pounds. I always torque cables clips larger than 1/4". > You can look at any company, even those on this list, and find gigs > that they have not done so great on. It happens in the real world. > However, I have never known Foy (sorry Stuart) or any other flying > company to send out gear that they thought would put performers in > danger. I certainly never felt that our performer was in any danger or I would not have flown him. I was surprised at the rubber band method of locking the release pin, but that was fine once tension was on the cable. > > The need for rescue scenarios has been around forever, but the > designing of them has not really happened until the last 10 years or > so. Being that it was a tour makes it even more difficult, as rescue > is usually very site-specific. I am only speaking from my personal > experience when I was in Vegas with Foy (sorry Stuart) and a couple > other companies on the strip. This was my first experience flying people with motors. I had previously used motorized winches where it was possible to turn the drum by a handcrank without the motor attached. I was surprised that there was no provision in the foy system to deal with a failure. > I apologize for the small bits of sarcasm, but something has rubbed me > the wrong way........ I hope that wasn't me. Nothing but respect for Peter Foy, the man. It was an honor to meet him. Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:35:06 EST Subject: Re: Flying people Lauren - because you are asking these questions, I'm confident you have the ability to be able to do the job pulling the ropes IF you feel you can. Flying people is best left to folks who specialize in that specific thing. As I'm writing this, I'm sitting at a tabl with 8 stagehands, two of which do rigging exclusively. They ALL say "bring in Foy or someone who does this all the time." Your director may say he doesn't have the money to hire someone like that, but I guarantee that IF someone were to be injured, your director wouldn't want to try to come up with the millions of dollars he'd lose in the lawsuit. There are things that Joe-local rock climber can do. Flying people isn't one of them. Kristi ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:47:20 -0500 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Flying people At 7:35 PM -0500 1/27/07, MissWisc [at] aol.com wrote: >Your director may say he doesn't have the money to hire someone like that, >but I guarantee that IF someone were to be injured, your director wouldn't >want to try to come up with the millions of dollars he'd lose in the lawsuit. Isn't it amazing how many people say they don't have the budget to bring in a professional to fly people, and yet they don't think for a nanosecond how many orders of magnitude more it'll cost them if they try the stunt anyway and something goes tango-uniform? -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net Anytime you hear businessmen debating "which policy is better for America", don't bend over. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:48:21 -0500 From: "Brian Munroe" Subject: Re: Flying people In-Reply-To: References:

On 1/27/07, Jim Hyslop wrote: > Also, please keep in mind the context of the original post. This is a > community theatre we're talking about. My bet would be that Foy's fees > would double or even triple the entire budget for the show, if not for > the whole season. Foy may be the best, but not everyone can afford the > best. Surely there must be other competent riggers around? I think we need a term to distinguish riggers from "flying perfomer riggers" Echoing what Dave Vick said, I am a ETCP certified theatrical rigger, and I would not fly someone unless the system was designed/installed by someone who specializes in flying people. There is just too much at stake to take a chance on missing something. Both the performers safety and my personal liability. Leave the flying to the people that do it for a living. If you can not afford to hire a real flying company, you should not be flying people. The cost of someone getting hurt is just too high. Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45BBF326.2010401 [at] gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:49:42 -0700 From: Chip Wood Subject: Re: Introductions References:

In-Reply-To: Bill Nelson wrote: >> Oh, and you might warn them that the absolute certainty with which some >> members state their beliefs is sometimes inversely proportional to their >> accuracy.... > > Are you absolutely certain about that? ;-} > You can always look it up on Wikepedia. :>) Chip ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41f080680701271653w75e8539aw47cbf2e896abc565 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:53:43 -0500 From: "Eric Rouse" Subject: Re: Flying people In-Reply-To: References:

> If you strip away the emotional aspects of Stuart's message, I think at > the root of it is a good question. I, for one, am not a rigger, and > therefore not acquainted with who is good and who is not. While Doom's > (and others') recommendation of Foy would be good enough for me, I think > it is reasonable to assume that Lauren is new to the list, and therefore > may not know how much weight Doom, Richard, Delbert, Bill and others > who've contributed carry in this regard. If I were in Lauren's position, > I think it would be reasonable to ask "what makes them so good?" > Jim Hyslop If that had been the case I would have had absolutely no problem with his comment. However, I am afraid that was not his intended target when he wrote what he did. What he was telling a young lister, who I am sure is keeping track of this juicy thread ;-), is that she should only listen to those that are active on this list and that those not affiliated or continuously active have nothing useful to add. Pulling a tall frosty out of the fridge and done for the day. -- Eric Rouse TD-Penn State University State College, PA ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:02:14 -0500 From: "Brian Munroe" Subject: Re: Flying people In-Reply-To: References:

On 1/27/07, Rigger wrote: > Isn't it amazing how many people say they don't have the budget to > bring in a professional to fly people, and yet they don't think for > a nanosecond how many orders of magnitude more it'll cost them if > they try the stunt anyway and something goes tango-uniform? Don't buy a Cadillac if you can't afford the leather seats. The financial decisions that happen in this business never ceases to amaze me. Producers will spend oodles of dollars on the stupidiest things, but claim poverty when it comes to paying the people that make their shows happen. Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45BBFB24.5050709 [at] gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:23:48 -0700 From: Chip Wood Subject: Re: Full Monty Sign References:

In-Reply-To: Gregg Carville wrote: > The audience blinding is the key part here. So directing the light at > the audience is going to make the effect. - > May not work for you, but I did the drag race in "Rebel w/o a Cause" with 2-12V sealed beam headlights lashed to respective shopping carts. They faced directly DS and hid the two actors behind pushing the carts from US to DS. The car batteries were in the carts. I had a small pyro set in the pit. Black out! Nobody in the audience ever saw the pushers. Chip ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:35:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Flying people From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: On 1/27/07 7:29 PM, "Brian Munroe" wrote: > This was my first experience flying people with motors. I had > previously used motorized winches where it was possible to turn the > drum by a handcrank without the motor attached. I was surprised that > there was no provision in the foy system to deal with a failure. There is a manual brake release on the winch motor. The tech did not tell you about it because a) He didn't know about it or B) he didn't want anyone messing with it. Bill S. ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre ETCP Council Member www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:43:56 -0500 From: Kevin Lee Allen Subject: Re: All the Montclair students In-reply-to: Message-id: <49362010-AA3B-4522-B105-E165FAE76FFA [at] klad.com> References: <11794677.1169942638327.JavaMail.root [at] m41> Is it near Londinium? On Jan 27, 2007, at 7:26 PM, Herrick Goldman wrote: > Well Frank we don't know where Londoner is either. ----- Kevin Lee Allen Architect of Dreams http://www.klad.com 973.744.6352.voice 201.280.3841.mobile klad [at] klad.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:56:11 -0500 Subject: Re: Flying people From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Another thought. If the motor is not attached when you are hand turning the drum, then that means that the motor and gearbox are not direct drive...meaning that there is either a coupling or a drive chain between the two. For the most part that style of winch is no longer used although you may see a coupler or a drive chain on some curtain machines. Using a machine that had a shaft coupling or drive chain when flying people is not a good idea. Why? The more parts you have in a moving system the more things there are to go wrong. If a coupling or drive chain fail during operation it usually means the drum is now able to freewheel. Not a good thing when there's something attached to the lift line(s) of that drum. If a gearbox fails it is extremely unlikely that it will freewheel. A busted gearbox means busted gears on the inside. When that happens they tend to moosh together and stop the unit from turning altogether. A coupling or drive chain cannot withstand a shock load as well as a direct drive unit can. And, even in the best of circumstances, when flying people, there's always elebenty seven little tiny shock loads happening all the time. Yet another reason why you always hire a professional. It's a lot more complicated...even the easy straight lift moves...than it looks. Getting the engineering right takes time and experience. Bill S ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre ETCP Council Member www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 267.278.4561 mobile On 1/27/07 8:35 PM, "Bill Sapsis" wrote: > This was my first experience flying people with motors. I had > previously used motorized winches where it was possible to turn the > drum by a handcrank without the motor attached. I was surprised that > there was no provision in the foy system to deal with a failure. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 01:55:38 +0000 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: electricity to revolving stage References:

In-Reply-To: In message , Jerry Durand writes >At 01:08 PM 1/26/2007, Matt Gard wrote: >>01001101 01100001 01110100 01110100 00100000 01000111 01100001 >>01110010 01100100 > >"\x63\x75\x74\x65\x21\r\n" 01000111 01100101 01110100 00100000 01100001 00100000 01101100 01101001 01100110 01100101 00101110 :) -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <61xHRWOUQAvFFwTF [at] ntlworld.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 02:01:56 +0000 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: electricity to revolving stage References:

In-Reply-To: In message , Jim Hyslop writes >>> 01001101 01100001 01110100 01110100 00100000 01000111 01100001 >>> 01110010 01100100 >> >> >> "\x63\x75\x74\x65\x21\r\n" > >.. ..-. -.-- --- ..- .. -. ... .. ... - Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:12:37 -0500 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Flying people At 8:02 PM -0500 1/27/07, Brian Munroe wrote: > Producers will spend oodles of dollars on the stupidiest > things, but claim poverty when it comes to paying the people > that make their shows happen. Yeah, well... That's true of so many aspects of life. Look at the payscales of nurses and teachers, f'rinstance. -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net "There comes a time when one should quit drinking and gracefully pass out." --Jack Tollett ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:43:09 -0500 From: "Brian Munroe" Subject: Re: Flying people In-Reply-To: References:

On 1/27/07, Bill Sapsis wrote: > Another thought. If the motor is not attached when you are hand turning the > drum, then that means that the motor and gearbox are not direct > drive...meaning that there is either a coupling or a drive chain between the > two. For the most part that style of winch is no longer used although you > may see a coupler or a drive chain on some curtain machines. Using a > machine that had a shaft coupling or drive chain when flying people is not a > good idea. I'm a Broadway guy, and most of the winches that I have seen and used are chain driven. Yes, the winches that I have seen used to fly people were direct drive, but most other winches (deck tracks, counterweight assist fly winches, etc) that I have used were chain driven. Different sized chain, depending upon the winch size. Winches that fly scenery that people are on (as opposed to directly flying the performer) have secondary brakes attached to the drum shaft. >There is a manual brake release on the winch motor. The tech did not tell you about it because a) He didn't know about it or B) he didn't want anyone messing with it. A lot of times the brake release handle is not attached to the brake, but rather stored on the motor housing. If you need to use the brake release, first you have to locate the handle and attach it. Anyway, using the brake release without something besides the gearbox to hold the performer doesn't seem like a good idea to me. One of the reasons I am not really comfortable with flying performers on motors only. Sure, Cirque and stunt people do it, but they are specially trained and can handle getting themselves out of a jam. Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:46:33 -0500 From: "Brian Munroe" Subject: Re: Flying people In-Reply-To: References:

On 1/27/07, Bill Sapsis wrote: > Yet another reason why you always hire a professional. It's a lot more > complicated...even the easy straight lift moves...than it looks. Getting > the engineering right takes time and experience. Amen to that! Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45BC12C1.3060100 [at] peak.org> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 19:04:33 -0800 From: Pat Kight Subject: Re: How old ARE you people anyway? References: In-Reply-To: ladesigners [at] juno.com wrote: > Lets just say that I have throw away MANY invitations to join AARP I forward them to my sister, who's eight years younger than me and still qualifies. It drives her crazy. We may be geezers, but we're still brats. -- Pat Kight kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45BC19DA.9020504 [at] fuse.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:34:50 -0500 From: Stuart Wheaton Reply-To: sdwheaton [at] fuse.net Subject: Re: Flying people References:

In-Reply-To: Stuart Wheaton wrote: > OK, how did Foy become Foy? By following the sort of guidelines that > Eric suggested Lauren should look for. Even if Foy rigged the gig, it > would be wise for Lauren to watch for this stuff. If somebody else does > it with similar care and quality gear, and there is liability protection > in place, why not. If Foy were to try to start up today Doom would seem > to be the first in line to close them down for not being Foy. > > Second...What is the big thing about Foy here anyhow, as far as I know, > no person who is actively involved in Foy company operations is an > active contributor to this list. Delbert Hall, and Tracy Nunnally are > both contributors to this list, and both professionals at flying people, > let's keep it local. > > Stuart > Did everybody take a double dose of touchy pills tonite? Maybe you guys are reading this in a way that I am not, but as the poster, I never intended to imply there is anything wrong whatsoever with the work of Foy. I have worked with Foy crews, I have met Gary Foy, though never had the privelege of meeting Peter. I find Foy's stuff and people to be top drawer in every respect. My only contention was that they are NOT the only people in the biz who are qualified to do a Peter Pan show. A few of the first posts hinted at others, I named one, one who is a valued contributor to this list. There are other rigging suppliers in this world, but I will choose Sapsis first because they also give their time here to help people that they might never make a buck off, in the interest of making better, safer theatre. A few short weeks ago we had a thread about hanging scenery from C-clamps, I mentioned that proper I-beam hangers could be obtained from McMaster, and it was Mr.Sapsis who pointed out to me that they were also available from a list member. I didn't jump down his throat...I believe I apologised... Having other People flying companies is a good thing, it increases the pool of qualified, experienced riggers, it brings down costs, and it stimulates creativity. My only intent was to suggest that there was more than one option on this gig and to ask how come quality gear and quality installations by knowledgeable folks were not considered sufficient? We are not doing the thread from 5 years ago where they wanted to levitate the Into the Woods witch with lighting safeties. I have re-read my post and I am stung by the virulence of the replies. Perhaps the people who got nasty could try re-reading it and see if I really said what they read into it as well. Stuart ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45BC1D00.8030208 [at] uwosh.edu> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:48:16 -0600 From: Mick Alderson Subject: Re: Traveling to URTA Kelly Smith wrote: > Speaking of objects you can't get away with taking on planes now, > about 2 years ago I was flying to New York to work on a show and had > forgotten to move my crescent wrench from my shoulder bag to my > suitcase. They discovered it at the security checkpoint and took it > away from me. It was so sad! What did they think I would do with it? > Bang someone on the head or something? I had a similar experience a few years back. I have for many years carried a 4" C-wrench in my pocket, even when I am also carrying a larger one. (The 4" c-wrench is *just* big enough to hang an instrument or tighten a 9/16" nut, and has saved me a lot of steps.) Anyway, I didn't think to put it in checked baggage and the security screener caught it. Fortunately for me he thought it was amusing and let me keep it, with an admonishment not to do it again! (I haven't.) -- Mick Alderson TD, Fredric March Theatre Univ. of Wis. Oshkosh ------------------------------ Message-ID: <067701c74293$4d4e6ec0$6701a8c0 [at] amd2200> From: "Rob Riddle" References: Subject: Re: How old ARE you people anyway? Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:18:01 -0500 Kristi, not knowing you (although we may have met) I will ignore the bait of the first part of your reply. You MAY BE a lady. One would hope. As for the second part.... elegant. Rob't ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: How old ARE you people anyway? > > A "lady" never reveals her age... let me just say I'm young enough to get > carded yet just barely old enough to be the mom of the bouncer. > > Kristi > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002501c74293$f08c70f0$0400000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Flying people Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:22:36 -0800 > When in doubt, either call the REAL pros or walk away. > Which is why I have gracefully declined* two productions of "Peter Pan" in the last 5 years. - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative *Ok, one I walked away, after I was assured the flying would be by either Foyfolk or ZFX, only to discover it would be Uncle Chuck and his truckload of rope and pulleys. One production was set and lights for me, the other just lights. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:35:06 -0500 From: "Delbert Hall" Cc: sdwheaton [at] fuse.net Subject: Re: Flying people In-Reply-To: References:

Wow! I have been out-of town all day and and this thread has really run amuck. First, I am not offended by Eric's statement. Eric is a good friend and I understand what is was trying to say. I knew and respected Peter Foy, and I know people who currently work for this company. I know almost everyone at ZFX and Hall Associates (my old company which Tracy now owns). All of these companies do a good job. OK, the reason to not use cable clips on a performer flying system is that they only have an 80% efficiency rating, whereas swaging sleeves have a 100% efficiency rating. When you are using as small a cable as possible, you really what the highest efficiency rating as possible. If you use cable clips on a performer flying system, you don't know what you are doing (as Eric said). Last, most competent riggers should be able to rig a simple performer flying effect. This reason for hiring a professional flying director is that this person can choreograhy interesting flying effects, and train your operators and performers to do it. There are a lot of tricks to flying and most riggers just do not know them. They do not understand how to keep a performer from spinning on a single wire, or how to cancel a swing so that the performers lands on the the fireplace instead of crashing into the wall, just to name two. As Peter Foy told me many times, flying performers is an art. He used to say just because you put Dorothy Hamill's ice skakes does not make you able to skate like Dorthory Hamill. The equipment is only a small part of flying effects. OK, it has been a long day and I am tied. More tomorrow when I am rested. -Delbert -- Delbert L. Hall ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre 423-773-4255 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <58f67b0f0701272107i408195feka07d78a1a08f264a [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:07:23 -0600 From: "Michael Powers" Subject: how old "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" writes: <> Isn't that 7 in base ten? As for me I'm 0011011000110001. -- Michael Michael Powers Director of Operations Central Lighting & Equipment 1720 Fuller Rd. Suite 150 West Des Moines Iowa 50265 515-277-4190 877-977-4190 Fax 515-277-2295 515-557-0178 cell michael [at] clelights.com ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "John D. Palmer" Subject: Re: Power to revolve Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:36:38 -0800 Organization: Palmer & Co. Design & Prod. Message-ID: Sorry, I am getting to this late, but... Can you provide the power down to the center of the revolve from above? I did this for a production of Rigoletto a few years ago. The benefit is that the longer distance allows the cable to not twist too tightly. At the end of the night, just work the revolve back the number of revolutions to reset the cable. Thanks, John John D. Palmer Palmer & Company Design & Production (213) 453-1547 ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "John D. Palmer" Subject: Crescent wrenches Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 21:45:58 -0800 Organization: Palmer & Co. Design & Prod. Message-ID: /geek mode on My C wrench is off/off/on/off/on/off/off/off/off years old. /geek mode off You have to be a really trusted friend to borrow that wrench. It is the first one I bought when I started doing lighting in high school. I almost had it taken away at the Toronto airport about 18 years ago. Have a good day, John John D. Palmer Palmer & Company Design & Production (213) 453-1547 ------------------------------ Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.2.20070128163135.036c0de8 [at] kilowatt.com.au> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:54:15 +1100 From: Andy Ciddor Subject: Re: how old?? In-Reply-To: References: At 16:07 28.01.2007, Michael Powers wrote: >As for me I'm 0011011000110001. That literally makes Michael older than Adam. 13,873 years ago is about 8,000 years before the Judeo-Christian date for the Creation. Binary 0011011000110001 is actually decimal 13,873 He may have mistaken a binary number for BCD translation of 61 which is actually written as 00110110 00110001 "6" "1" (note the space) not the number 61 which is binary 111101 Andy ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 00:57:04 -0500 From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: How old ARE you people anyway? In-Reply-To: References: > A "lady" never reveals her age... With all due respect...and with much consideration of the fact that you are a pretty unique individual... I've never known any "ladies" who worked backstage. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 01:11:03 -0500 From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: how old?? In-Reply-To: References:

> At 16:07 28.01.2007, Michael Powers wrote: > >As for me I'm 0011011000110001. > > That literally makes Michael older than Adam. > 13,873 years ago is about 8,000 years before the Judeo-Christian date > for the Creation. Or, he's 38 and was counting the days... ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002b01c742a3$8171f4a0$0400000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Flying people Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:14:01 -0800 > Isn't it amazing how many people say they don't have the budget to bring > in a professional to fly people, and yet they don't think for a > nanosecond how many orders of magnitude more it'll cost them if they try > the stunt anyway and something goes tango-uniform? Or, in the case of a particular school district, who has hired me in another capacity, who wouldn't hire (me, or any other highly-qualified) Facility Manager to run their new PAC, when... only a month or so after opening the building, some young'un (who trespassed) had fallen into an open orchestra pit, and who's parents have subsequently sued the school district for umpteen millions of dollars.... taken into account how many YEARS that same amount would have paid for a Facility Manager???? ...... I wasn't going to bring this to the light of this list, for fear that my friend Randy would be at my door, asking for details.... ;) - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003d01c742a4$057f5850$0400000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Full Monty Sign Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:17:43 -0800 > May not work for you, but I did the drag race in "Rebel w/o a Cause" with > 2-12V sealed beam headlights lashed to respective shopping carts. They > faced directly DS and hid the two actors behind pushing the carts from US > to DS. The car batteries were in the carts. I had a small pyro set in > the pit. Black out! Nobody in the audience ever saw the pushers. That is so kewl. Newbies on the list: this is an excellent example of great gems of wisdom and gadgetry one can take away from this list!! Even for pseudo-aulde-phartes like me. Filing this gag away in my kit.... - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <004b01c742a4$88ac9530$0400000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Flying people Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:21:23 -0800 >> Producers will spend oodles of dollars on the stupidiest >> things, but claim poverty when it comes to paying the people >> that make their shows happen. > > > Yeah, well... That's true of so many aspects of life. > Look at the payscales of nurses and teachers, f'rinstance. I'll vouch for that. I'll even offer to be a material witness, with Kristi. (Well, not the nursing part. Not Kristi either, maybe... but maybe she has additional insights to the underpayment of prostitutes... not that I'm suggesting anything, but she does know the Wikipedia entries....) ;) - Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45BC42D9.6050502 [at] fieldmousepro.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 00:29:45 -0600 From: Stephen Lee Subject: Line-set compensator diagram/picture? Hey all, Can anyone point me to a diagram or picture of a line-set compensator? I'm familiar with the concept of weight transfer as an arbor travels up & down. Being a featherweight, it's pulled me off the deck before, much to the entertainment of my coworkers. I've heard compensators mentioned, but haven't seen one before, and am curious as to their design & operation. Thanks in advance! -- Stephen Lee Fieldmouse Productions Nashville, TN ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References: Subject: Re: Flying people Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:32:11 -0800 Like its amazing that producer or director doesn't have the money to do right the first time either, but has the money to do 3 times to get it right, since they didn't listen the first time. Yes, I have been seeing a lot of rock climbers again, (note: I have nothing against rock climbers as I have known in my younger day to climb rocks) doing/attempting rigging again. Just hope we are not getting back the adage "I have harness, I have rope, I am rigger" or "pull rope get banana" again. ----- Original Message ----- From: > --------------------------------------------------- > > Lauren - because you are asking these questions, I'm confident you have > the > ability to be able to do the job pulling the ropes IF you feel you can. > > Flying people is best left to folks who specialize in that specific > thing. > As I'm writing this, I'm sitting at a tabl with 8 stagehands, two of > which do > rigging exclusively. They ALL say "bring in Foy or someone who does this > all > the time." > > Your director may say he doesn't have the money to hire someone like > that, > but I guarantee that IF someone were to be injured, your director > wouldn't > want to try to come up with the millions of dollars he'd lose in the > lawsuit. > > There are things that Joe-local rock climber can do. Flying people isn't > one > of them. > > Kristi > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: How old ARE you people anyway? Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:41:13 -0800 I like the one that AARP sent me at a place that I haven't lived or used as an address for 29 years. I have family that still lives there so they packaged the notice up and sent it to me, it went to the same place as all the rest of notices that AARP sent me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Kight" > --------------------------------------------------- > > ladesigners [at] juno.com wrote: > > > > Lets just say that I have throw away MANY invitations to join AARP > > I forward them to my sister, who's eight years younger than me and still > qualifies. It drives her crazy. > > We may be geezers, but we're still brats. > > -- > Pat Kight > kightp [at] peak.org > ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 02:55:42 -0500 From: "Timothy Nielsen" Subject: Fight Choreography (Strangulation) Hey all, I'm the fight choreographer for a production of True West. One of the characters is called upon to strangle the other with a telephone cord, and I've been researching safe ways to do this. My research, however, has not been the most productive in detailed explanations as to how to perform this in the safest manner. Having the cord around the actor's neck concerns me, and I was wondering if you might be able to either lead me to some useful books on the subject, or share some of your own personal knowledge with me. The playing space is only 16 feet by 24 feet, with the audience very close to the edge of the space, which makes it a bit more difficult. Thanks in advance, Tim Nielsen PS> Sorry if this does in fact get posted twice, the first time it got bounced back to me. ------------------------------ You are subscribed as stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net End of Stagecraft Digest #1114 ******************************