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X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 42853190; Mon, 26 Feb 2007 03:03:32 -0800 X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.2 required=5.0 tests=ADVANCE_FEE_1,AWL,NO_RECEIVED, NO_RELAYS,PRXY_USER_BODY_AMBIEN,PRXY_USER_BODY_CIALIS,PRXY_USER_DROP_SINO, SUBJ_HAS_UNIQ_ID autolearn=no version=3.1.7 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7 (2006-10-05) on localhost X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: List-Archive: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #1158 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 03:02:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #1158 1. Re: "Techie" by "Tony Deeming" 2. Re: First Gig by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 3. Re: "Techie" by Bruce Purdy 4. Re: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site by "Bill Nelson" 5. Re: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site by John McKernon 6. Re: "Techie" by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 7. Re: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 8. Metamorphoses Pool by "Jonathan S. Deull" 9. Re: First Gig by "Paul Guncheon" 10. Re: "Techie" by Bruce Purdy 11. Re: "Techie" by "Paul Guncheon" 12. Re: "Techie" by "Paul Schreiner" 13. Re: First Gig. by "Paul Schreiner" 14. Re: First Gig by Mick Alderson 15. Re: Hedda Techie? by SS 16. Re: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site by Steve Shelley 17. Re: Production Company by Jim Hyslop 18. Re: First Gig by MartySrq [at] aol.com 19. Re: "Techie" by Jim Hyslop 20. Re: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site by John McKernon 21. Swearing on the Job (was Re: First Gig.) by "Michael Powers" 22. Re: First Gig. by Clive Mitchell 23. Re: First Gig by joreth [at] techie.com 24. Re: First Gig. by "RD" 25. Re: "Techie" by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 26. Re: "Techie" by Rigger 27. Re: First Gig. by Rigger 28. Props question by "Alicia Bailey" 29. Re: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 30. Re: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 31. Re: Props question by "Matthew Breton" 32. Plyron by "Jason Salvatori" 33. Re: Plyron by "Patrick Immel" 34. Re: Props question by "Paul Schreiner" 35. Re: Props question by Al Fitch 36. Re: Plyron by Bruce Purdy 37. Re: Bell Cord or Aircraft Cable for traveler? by "Mt. Angel Performing Arts Center" 38. Re: First Gig by "Bill Nelson" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tony Deeming" Subject: RE: "Techie" Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:01:49 -0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: OK, I've been watching this old chestnut thread with a little interest for a while now, and haven't contributed much as yet, but think it's maybe about time. "What's in a word?" CB, I think, has pretty much hit the nails on the head with "Words have the power that you give them". I think my only contribution so far was in reply to that first outing. This subject isn't about racism, though derogatory terms for another race can be seen as part of the genre, in the way the 'nigga' was used as an example. It's about, in some ways, discrimination at it's roots, but familiarity in much of it's roots. We, as 'techies' do ourselves (in general) refer to other departments within the tech community as noise boys, squeaks, lampies, deck grunts, fly-boys, to name but a few. In some ways, I might have found any one of those to be more likely to insulting than the generic term 'techie'. We also refer to the performing groups likewise - musos, 'the talent', luvvies, et etc. Do we intend any slight to those individuals per se, when using those terms either on this forum, or amongst ourselves in venues, or even when speaking to those involved? I really seriously doubt it. For the most part, anyway. Going back to CB's statement and what some others have also said, it is mostly obvious whether one person using a term is using it as a compliment, or a derogation, or just simply to describe someone they need to refer to but may not know them by name, or even what department they are in. If a performer says, for example "I was asked to move out of the way by that techie during a scene change" that shows that he/she recognises the fact that the person was indeed a technician, though they may not have known what dept they worked for. Technician is perhaps too formal in some situations, techie in common parlance is just an abbreviation. Personally, in almost 30 years of theatre work, have been called a wide variety of things - mostly in good humour, but I cannot actually recall once when I was referred to by any name in the theatre that offended me! Ever. Whilst the referral to the nigga example perhaps demonstrates how some folks may take offence (and quite rightly so) when used by some sectors of society, but maybe not from others - eg their own close group of friends - I don't really feel the use of 'techie' is anywhere close to being in the same league. So, come on, guys. Let's put this one to bed - it's a word. And not IMHO a bad word. And one that should really be taken for the value that it IS just a word with no sinister undertones. If a user has derogatory intent, that'll be most likely evident, and that user would probably have the same intent WHATEVER word they used, so suck it up and let's just get on with the show, huh?? Nuff said. Tony ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: First Gig Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 07:07:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01c758d5$83e24170$6601a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > Funny, I've worked for the past 17 years for the biggest=20 > names in the business, in some of the biggest venues in some=20 > of the largest cities in the country. I've never even been=20 > to a county fair, let alone worked at one. Cussing hasn't=20 > seemed to hurt my career at all. With all due respect, then, perhaps the site should be titled, "First = Gig in Some of the Biggest Venues in Some=20 of the Largest Cities in the Country," or perhaps, "Things I Needed to = Know on My First Gig". ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 10:00:38 -0500 Subject: Re: "Techie" From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > At least one person I know who uses the word frequently feels compelled to > compliment me on the set...even though she knows I'm the lighting designer. > To her, it's all just "tech". It would appear that she is lumping all the technical theatre people together. She might not have any real idea what a 'Lighting designer' is or does. She may have no knowledge or experience in technical theatre - an 'outsider' - and see us as one big happy family that works together towards a common goal. I don't see any reason to think that it was a derogatory comment. She realises that you are "a Tech" - not "Just a tech". How you respond is what matters. Rather than feeling insulted, you could simply say, "Thanks, I'll pass that along to the folks that designed and built the set." Or you could use the opportunity to educate her by saying "Thanks, but I had nothing to do with the set, I designed the lighting. You see that guy over there? He's the one that designed the set, you should compliment him." We technical theatre folks are a class unto ourselves. Hence our common involvement on this forum. An actor or other 'outsider' without the knowledge or experience in what we do might well lump us together. They may in fact not be interested in learning the difference. Personally I think of auto mechanics as a class oh people, and don't think in terms of 'brake specialists' or 'transmission mechanics' or whatever. So it is with non theatre tech people. Unless you think that as a designer you are better than the rest of us (I'm not implying that you do), don't worry about ignorant outsiders lumping us together. Such attitudes are not demeaning and are only insulting if you choose to let them be. The term 'techie' isn't the problem, it's a euphemism only for 'technical theatre person'. It's entirely possible that the person you referred to is impressed by the whole 'look' of the set and lights - the whole packaged image, and just wanted to express a compliment. Take it as that and move on. You'll be happier for it. Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director The Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1369.205.215.253.33.1172417074.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 07:24:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site From: "Bill Nelson" > its educational value). What's a svoboda, and which other fixtures would > you recommend? It is a low voltage high intensity light batten. I think it was originally used to create a light curtain. Bill -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 10:32:05 -0500 Subject: Re: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site From: John McKernon Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > It is a low voltage high intensity light batten. I think it was originally > used to > create a light curtain. Yes, hence the name, its inventor. - John ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: "Techie" Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 10:35:13 -0500 Message-ID: <000a01c758f2$8b0ccbb0$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > > At least one person I know who uses the word frequently feels > > compelled to compliment me on the set...even though she > knows I'm the > > lighting designer. To her, it's all just "tech". > > It would appear that she is lumping all the technical > theatre people together. Exactly. > I don't see any reason to think that > it was a derogatory comment. I don't believe I ever said there was deliberate malicious intent. It's a matter of ignorance born of the belief that learning about such things is unimportant -- not worth the effort. ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 10:35:50 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c758f2$a0d7b6d0$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > > its educational value). What's a svoboda, and which other fixtures > > would you recommend? > > It is a low voltage high intensity light batten. I think it > was originally used to create a light curtain. Judy sent me a link. I've added it. ------------------------------ From: "Jonathan S. Deull" Subject: Metamorphoses Pool Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 10:44:09 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c758f3$caa840f0$4200000a [at] M60> In-Reply-To: Delbert: The pool (originally fabricated for Andrew Wheeler's production in Providence, RI) has a 4'-0" deep end which can be filled to 18" deep or so. Then it has a 6"-0" "rake" which goes from 18" to about four inches at the shallow end. This did not provide as much deep end as I had originally hoped for, but it turned out to be very workable. Jonathan * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Jonathan S. Deull Performing Arts Department Edmund Burke School email: jdeull [at] clarktransfer.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <80b44ce00702250831o2f77101fxec5445c8f77353f3 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 06:31:32 -1000 From: "Paul Guncheon" Subject: Re: First Gig <> On the other hand, consider the idea that one may not have to train everyone on one's crew in every aspect of what they are doing. They may already know... in fact, they may know a better way to do it. I had an experience with "head carpenter" installing his show from Omaha. We had t shim a platform to get it flush with another... not the most uncommon f events. I got some shim stock (1/8", 3/16", 1/2". and 3/4" x 6" squares on plywood, lay misc. pieces of them along the seams at the leg positions to see how many would be needed to make the levelness, and put them under the legs of the low platform. Before I could move the other platform in place, the head declared what I had done was incorrect and wondered why I hadn't used shimming shingles and a hammer, which he demanded I get. He also stated that I had put way too many shims under the legs. (How he determined that was a mystery to we but hey...) I retrieved the aforementioned shims and hammer and proceeded to stand by and learn. The head carpenter proceeded to whack several shims in place without measuring or using any other method to determine how much shimming he needed. He pronounced it "good" and we dropped the other platform in place. As it was now only 1/2" higher than the one he shimmed, he declared it good. Our TD looked at it quizzically and we had one of those "knowing" conversations deciding that we would fix it later. I later learned the "head carpenter" was actually the guy brought along to run video for the show. The actual head carpenter had snagged him to run the install of the deck rather than have him standing around. For whatever reason, he felt the need to "fix" a correct solution to a rather basic problem by using probably the only technique he knew. One that wasn't as good and that he couldn't use correctly or efficiently. Plus he had the added advantage of insulting and mildly pissing off a stage carpenter who not only knew a lot more about techniques, but also had all the tools. To make matters even better, later on, while I was gone getting parts, he gave my impact driver to someone to work under the stage... without asking. I come back, he's gone and there's new guy using my gun under the deck. Ummmm... bad. I put two and two together and realized that this guy simply didn't know any better. besides I had gotten a good story out of him. Once he stoped me from doing what I was doing and insisted an doing the job his way, the results was going to be acceptable even totally wrong. Laters, Paul By unpopular demand: "I can no longer hear anything," said Tom deftly. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:18:58 -0500 Subject: Re: "Techie" From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: >> I don't see any reason to think that >> it was a derogatory comment. > > I don't believe I ever said there was deliberate malicious intent. I'm glad that we agree on this point. >It's a > matter of ignorance born of the belief that learning about such things is > unimportant -- not worth the effort. OK, so that seems to be the problem. The fact is that although to us insiders, the specific rolls within technical theatre are important, to an outsider, they are not. It may in fact NOT be 'worth the effort' to learn all this to someone that does not participate. A Gastroenterologist, a Cardiac surgeon and a GP are all just "Doctors" to me. I don't know, or frankly care to learn, what all the different kinds of "Doctors" do. Is this demeaning? I don't think so - it's just that it's not an important part of my life, and 'worth the effort' to learn. Now I realise that the person you referred to may be an actor or other 'Theatre person', and therefore would be well served to learn more about her profession. If so, try to gently educate and inform her. On the other hand, if she is acting in a community theatre production or is a student that is not planning on a career in theatre, then she might have other priorities. As Tony said in his excellent post; >So, come on, guys. >Let's put this one to bed - it's a word. And not IMHO a bad word. And one >that should really be taken for the value that it IS just a word with no >sinister undertones. If a user has derogatory intent, that'll be most likely >evident, and that user would probably have the same intent WHATEVER word >they used, so suck it up and let's just get on with the show, huh?? and in the voice of Forrest Gump I say; "That's all I have to say about 'Techie' " Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director The Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <80b44ce00702250841g3edc3bf4t465f0da30ceba34f [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 06:41:50 -1000 From: "Paul Guncheon" Subject: Re: "Techie" << It is only a euphemism for that in your own ears and mind - not necessarily in the minds of the speaker>> Okay... when I am addressed as a "techie" I calmly correct the speaker by saying something like "I do not appreciate be referred to as a 'techie' as I find it demeaning... I prefer the term 'technician'". Now the speaker knows how I feel about the word. If he uses it again, I figure he has forgotten and I remind him... again, calmly. If he uses the term a third time, I figure he is now doing it on purpose (because he probably is) and I remind him yet again, but this time in a way that makes my feelings on the matter inordinately clear... again calmly. Laters, Paul "Is your name Frank Lee?" Tom asked frankly. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 13:27:01 -0500 From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: "Techie" In-Reply-To: References:

> The same people would never dream of referring to "acties" or "singies". So would "techers" be better? ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 13:33:04 -0500 From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: First Gig. In-Reply-To: References:

> > No, haggis is yummy. The other stuff you eat, however... > > It is, though oddly enough, it tastes better with turnips... Only time I've had the opportunity to try haggis it was an amateur version done over here rather than "home-grown" (so to speak). It was pretty good...but when chased with some single-malt, it was great! :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 12:42:25 -0600 From: Mick Alderson Subject: Re: First Gig Message-id: <2E106707-40AF-4E15-8D41-1733243EC32C [at] uwosh.edu> Bill wrote: > I treat everyone with whom I work as people AND with respect. I am > quite willing to > train a person. Matter of fact, it is sometimes the most enjoyable > part of an > otherwise straightforward in/out. I also expect that there will be > someone willing > to train me, in situations where I am lacking in knowledge and/or > experience. > > But if the person is not willing to use their heads to constantly > think about (and > double check) what they are doing, they are a hazard - and not only > to themselves. > Those are the people that I do not want on my crews. > My apologies if I implied otherwise. The phrase: "I do not want them on my crew" happens to be a hot button issue for me. I've heard it too many times in 35 years, and very rarely has it been justified. So I thought I heard echos of something that wasn't there. I'll agree there are sometimes willful idiots on a call. They should be sent home. Mick Alderson ------------------------------ Message-ID: <8231e7ea0702251112w2dc1d084ta63705588743d6be [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:12:21 -0500 From: SS Subject: Re: Hedda Techie? In-Reply-To: References: >>> If a person says she wants to give you a smack, and you decide that she has decided to assault you physically, but her intentions were to assault you, er... romantically, do you still punch her in the face?<<< No. That costs extra! Perhaps at least dinner and a movie. :)- -- -SS TTS-EKU "Every day is an opportunity disguised as a challenge" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:58:39 -0500 Subject: Re: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site From: Steve Shelley Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Hello jeffrey; Your post invites a two-part response. Right now i'm a bit under the gun to finish a couple of projects so I'm only going to muse about the usage of PC's, or more globally, one's perception of equipment use. Lighting equipment is lighting equipment. How it is used is completely up to the individual lighting designer. And sometimes, as you point out, where and how that designer has been trained, and where and how that designer works can impact how the equipment is utilized. For example, the unstated north american technique of assigning ellipsoidals to system or special usage because of it's framing ability has been in place for years. This is often illustrated, for example, with ellipsoidals assigned to front of house positions in many road proscenium venues. While ellipsoidals are often one basic system "building block" in non-north american FOH lighting postiions, there is often a plethora of other types of fixtures in a myriad of lighting positions. PC's, fresnels, and PARs hung in cove, balcony rail, high box boom and low box boom, or proscenium boom; the list of alternate fixtures and positions can be extensive. While "typical" north american techniques are used to construct straight front light, area light, or mccandless light systems, it has been demonstrated to me numerous times over the years that this is not the only way to (front) light a stage. Likewise, just because the instrumentation and hanging locations used in europe, africa, south america, and asia seem "foreign" that doesn't necessarily mean they're not just as applicable or successful. (I didn't mention australia because I've not yet had the chance to work there.) When I first worked overseas and encountered these situations I was horrified, and couldn't understand how anyone could work under these conditions. After experiencing how different types of instruments can be used to create different types of washes using different types of fixtures, I now see that there are ways that using the mish-mosh of instrumentation can actually make a focus go faster and the final product look better. and there have been many times that, when I provide my plan (utilizing the local gear) to the local electricians, it's obvious (by younger electrician's reactions) that I'm doing something different with the equipment than what has been done by other designers in the past. On the other hand, I've been charged to interpret numerous light plots from non-north american companies, and in many cases, have had to substitute north american lighting fixtures for 220v instruments. Initially I shook my head wondering what these folks were up to, wanting to hang this type of instrument in that location, when the obvious choice was (in my opinion) much different. Time after time I would see the final product and realize that I had no place judging other designer's choices; 9 times out of 10 their final work successfully emulated the artistic vision of the piece. My choices (based in ignorance of the piece or the vision) would have been counter-productive. Gear is gear. How it is used, and where it is used, is a case by case basis. Often those choices are constrained by inventory, time, and money. How I choose to use gear outside of north america may appear just as goofy as how a non-north american chooses to use lighting equipment at the spoleto festival in charleston. In either case, the bottom line is the success of the final product. If you can provide as many options to different types of lighting fixtures without judgment on your web site, you stand to increase the potential audience of visitors. And if you include other instrumentation not found in north america, you not only provide an informational service for the rest of the industry, you'll also provide alternative information to young local designers in your area. Hth, shelley On 2/25/07 4:16 AM, "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > ================================= > Jeffrey E. Salzberg, > Lighting Designer > http://www.jeffsalzberg.com > > 201/379-3138 (Home) > 917/238-7430 (Cell) > jeffsalzberg (Skype) > weblog: http://www.jeffsalzberg.com/blog.htm > >> Since then there have since been many times that >> I wished the north american fresnel system could be a little >> sharper-edged. > > I can see using them instead of Fresnels, but my impression is that the > Europeans use them in situations in which we would use ellipsoidals, and > that's what I don't understand. The variable field size is an advantage, I > suppose, but one that's negated simply by calculating the photometrics and > using the appropriate focal length ERS or, as I'm sure Frank will say, using > a zoom. > > The lower cost is another advantage, but I'd suspect that's countered by the > need to use more fixtures due to lower efficiency, yes? > > >> I would >> recommend adding PC's, svobadas, and several other fixtures > > I've already added the PC (just because I don't agree with it doesn't negate > its educational value). What's a svoboda, and which other fixtures would > you recommend? > >> Hth, > > It does, thanks. > -- Steve Shelley SoftSymbols Designer MrTemplate [at] Earthlink.net www.fieldtemplate.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45E1EA8B.1030706 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:59:07 -0500 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: Production Company References:

In-Reply-To: Brian Munroe wrote: > How many dead theatres have you incorporated? I'm SOOOO glad I swallowed my coffee before reading this. -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ From: MartySrq [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 15:59:06 EST Subject: Re: First Gig Regarding the current profanity thread Clive wrote: "That's relative. Here in Glasgow Scotland we are notorious for using the "F" word grammatically." Many of us have worked in countries all over the planet and I can only say in my experience 'swear' words were one of the first things I learned. I don't remember a lot of Spanish, Italian, French, Hebrew, Russian or German but the naughty words have stayed with me over the years. If you're wondering - not all those words were directed at me though many were well earned indeed. I'm not sure what this proves except that if you working backstage anywhere one of the first things you will learn about the local language is that kind of language, seems to come with the territory. IIRC the Italians had the most imaginative and descriptive vocabulary. Marty

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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45E1FAFD.8080107 [at] dreampossible.ca> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 16:09:17 -0500 From: Jim Hyslop Organization: Dreampossible Inc. Subject: Re: "Techie" References:

In-Reply-To: Paul Schreiner wrote: > So would "techers" be better? Oh, no - we're not going to remake that whole "trekkie/trekker" thing, are we? I never could figure out which one I was supposed to be. -- Jim Hyslop ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 16:57:59 -0500 Subject: Re: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site From: John McKernon Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Jeffrey, Steve Shelley posted a wonderful note to the stagecraft list earlier today, describing how differently designers around the world work, yet all manage to produce great results. I think his email would make a great addition to your web site, you should ask him for permission to post it "as is" or with whatever revisions he'd like. Of course, he may also say "buy the book"...;) Thanks for making a cool new resource! - John ------------------------------ Message-ID: <58f67b0f0702251403k4299b27fqc09eb71541137523 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 16:03:19 -0600 From: "Michael Powers" Subject: Swearing on the Job (was Re: First Gig.) From: joreth [at] techie.com <<.............. Swearing is............ a normal part of the backstage vocabularly ... and that goes from coast to coast in all venues ...................>> Sorry, but you are incorrect. While people in the entertainment industry are very creative and can use profanity in many diverse, unusual and imaginative ways, they are also intelligent enough to realise that inappropriate or indiscriminate use can be very detrimental to their own or their company's reputation and hire-ability. I've been in this industry for over 40 years and worked in many different areas and venues from NYC to LA and across the Pacific on USO tours. I've never experienced a gig where profanity was the "norm". Don't get me wrong, I do swear. While in the Marine Corps I learned more ways to swear than most people will experience in a life time. I also learned that swearing lost it's effect and meaning if it was used as a normal part of speech. I very rarely swear now and the crews that work under me know that. If I swear on a call, they jump! They know I'm injured or REALLY mad (or I want them to think I am). One thing I have noticed over the years, in venues where talent or admin are absent, swearing has decreased as women have become more and more a part of the workforce. Whether this is because of a general civilizing effect that gender has on mine (problematic) or misguided chauvinism (quite possible) I won't try to guess. When I say misguided, trust me guys, if you haven't already found out, when a woman REALLY WANTS to swear, she can turn your ears blue and teach you a new language. -- Michael Michael Powers Director of Operations Central Lighting & Equipment 1720 Fuller Rd. Suite 150 West Des Moines Iowa 50265 515-277-4190 877-977-4190 Fax 515-277-2295 515-557-0178 cell michael [at] clelights.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:13:57 +0000 From: Clive Mitchell Subject: Re: First Gig. References:

In-Reply-To: In message , Rigger writes >No, haggis is yummy. The other stuff you eat, however... I bet you wear a kilt and drink "scotch" when you eat it. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ From: joreth [at] techie.com Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 19:29:48 -0500 Subject: Re: First Gig Message-Id: <20070226002948.B74AC1024E [at] ws1-3.us4.outblaze.com> > But what and how much is considered OK > varies HUGELY from space to space. You will be That's why I said to observe your leads and co-workers first! How many tim= es do I have to repeat "when in doubt, ask" before everyone stops mentionin= g how in *their* venue, it's different? I've already put it in red type al= l over the page to make it easier to see. Swearing is more common in this = industry than, say, office work, and people coming into this business need = to be aware of that. We can't have newbies come in tsk tsking every time s= omeone cusses. But I said in several places to be respectful of your co-wo= rkers, watch those around you, and ASK ASK ASK ASK ASK. I am not, have not= , nor ever will, advocate that anyone SHOULD start cussing. I am WARNING n= ew people not to be offended when they HEAR cussing, and I am ALSO warning = them to match their behaviour with those around them before the more colorf= ul among them says something offensive.=20=20 > really only seen the "anything goes" kind of behavior > you describe as the universal norm in bar and concert > type environments, sometimes a big arena or stadium > event. But it may be more normal than I know, because, > you know, I haven't been everywhere . . . Having all my experience be in large venues only or with large clients only= like Microsoft and Disney (among others), I can't speak for the bar scene,= but I'd imagine it's even worse there, at least, according to my buddies w= ho *do* work the bars and clubs. Since the concert arena and stadium type = of gigs supply crews of several dozen to hundreds of stagehands, many of th= em newbies with no experience at all, this page is written with them in min= d (although not exclusively). It's a little more difficult to get the good= corporate gigs or high-end theatre gigs with absolutely no experience and/= or no schooling. People don't tend to "fall" into those jobs very often. = But many of the arena gigs are filled with guys who knew a guy whose neighb= or said "come make an easy $100 bucks". The ones who have the contacts for= the better gigs will also be more likely to have exposure to "what they sh= ould know" before they get there, however they can also benefit from some o= f the tips I offer. Although it has been my personal experience that the s= ame kind of swearing goes on in theatre (even backstage at children's shows= ) and corporate gigs, just at a lower volume. The point is, I still believ= e it is fair and reasonable to warn newbies not to be offended when they he= ar swearing ... because they *will* hear swearing. And I remind everyone t= hat I say, over and over again, to be respectful of their fellow stagehands= and to observe and/or ask before doing anything they're unsure of ... incl= uding obnoxious swearing. And my statement about working in "all venues" was not to imply that I've w= orked in every single venue, but that I've worked the entire spectrum of gi= gs, large and small, and across the spectrum, it applies ... any exceptions= are just that - exceptions. Since someone felt the need to imply that I w= ould/could only find work in small county fairs, I felt the need to correct= that impression. =3D Prudential Hallmark Realty Search for Central Coast real estate listings with Prudential Hallmark Real= ty. Backed by knowledgeable and reliable agents available to assist you tod= ay. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=3D00135d44caa50a64d32e9= 1ef50aa2b1f ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "RD" References:

Subject: RE: First Gig. Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 17:43:59 -0700 Message-ID: <00a301c7593f$35d3e780$6501a8c0 [at] doom1> In-Reply-To: I always wear my kilt, as is noticeable if one looks for Dr. doom on the internet. Regimental too. Doom Davidson -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Clive Mitchell Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 4:14 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: First Gig. For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- In message , Rigger writes >No, haggis is yummy. The other stuff you eat, however... I bet you wear a kilt and drink "scotch" when you eat it. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: "Techie" Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 20:05:28 -0500 Message-ID: <000501c75942$343dfde0$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > OK, so that seems to be the problem. The fact is that=20 > although to us insiders, the specific rolls within technical=20 > theatre are important, to an outsider, they are not. It may=20 > in fact NOT be 'worth the effort' to learn all this to=20 > someone that does not participate. Which is why, if my bus driver used the word, I wouldn't care; unless he = was also an Equity actor. ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 20:37:59 -0500 From: Rigger Subject: Re: "Techie" At 1:27 PM -0500 2/25/07, Paul Schreiner wrote: >> The same people would never dream of referring to "acties" or "singies". > > So would "techers" be better? How'bout "stagehand." Nothing wrong with that, is there? -- Dave Vick rigger [at] tds.net "Jumping is easy and falling is fun... Right up 'til you hit the sidewalk, shivering and stunned" --Ani DiFranco ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 20:41:26 -0500 From: Rigger Subject: Re: First Gig. At 11:13 PM +0000 2/25/07, Clive Mitchell wrote: >> No, haggis is yummy. The other stuff you eat, however... > >I bet you wear a kilt and drink "scotch" when you eat it. The kilt occasionally. McEwans ale, exclusively. -DV ------------------------------ Message-ID: <8fc6d6800702251803i4800876p41579f96c252239b [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:03:24 -0500 From: "Alicia Bailey" Subject: Props question Greetings all! I am the props master for a production of Big Love. There is a trick during a wedding scene where the three sisters grab three goblets. The tops come off and there are blades/spikes embedded in the stems with which they stab their would be husbands. We originally planned to use retractable blades, but they were too large and looked silly. The girls actually stab the boys, so it needs to be something safe - any suggestions from out there in the list? Thanks all! Alicia Bailey 1st year MFA Technology Indiana University ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:05:13 -0500 Message-ID: <000501c7594a$92e9b430$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: That is a GREAT idea! ================================= Jeffrey E. Salzberg, Lighting Designer http://www.jeffsalzberg.com 201/379-3138 (Home) 917/238-7430 (Cell) jeffsalzberg (Skype) weblog: http://www.jeffsalzberg.com/blog.htm > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf > Of John McKernon > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 4:58 PM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Re: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > Jeffrey, > > Steve Shelley posted a wonderful note to the stagecraft list > earlier today, describing how differently designers around > the world work, yet all manage to produce great results. I > think his email would make a great addition to your web site, > you should ask him for permission to post it "as is" or with > whatever revisions he'd like. > > Of course, he may also say "buy the book"...;) > > Thanks for making a cool new resource! > > - John > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/700 - Release > Date: 2/24/2007 8:14 PM > > ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: "Stage Lighting for Students" web site Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:13:37 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c7594b$b97b3ff0$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > If you can provide as many options to different types of=20 > lighting fixtures without judgment on your web site, That's the goal. We're making no judgments. I just asked the question = here because I was curious. Judy and I agree that we need to make the site non-American-centric. The site currently has PC spots and svobodas. What else should we add? Mind you, I won't be doing much work on the site until I open the two = shows I have opening on March 9.... ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Matthew Breton" Subject: RE: Props question Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:44:49 -0500 >We originally planned >to use retractable blades, but they were too large and looked silly. >The girls actually stab the boys, so it needs to be something safe - >any suggestions from out there in the list? Thanks all! I wouldn't use retractable blades: too dangerous, oftentimes more so than regular blades. How about disposable wine glasses -- you know, the kind with removable bases? You could do something to dress them up so they look more lethal. The actresses should hold them so the stem of the glass is safely held in their hands; basically, they hit the actors with the meaty part of their fists while holding the glass. Actors' faces sell the actual deaths. _________________________________________________________________ With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few simple tips. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1caebf780702251906m697096cy67f3782f1c7cb2a6 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:06:58 -0500 From: "Jason Salvatori" Subject: Plyron Some time ago there was a discussion on this list about Plyron as a stage surface. This is what we used for our new floor (installed 1 week ago) and it semms to be great... All the dance companies have been thrilled. However, it currently has 2 coats of Rosco toughprime on it, but after 1 week of use it is already very scratched up - enough that the plyron surface is showing through the paint. Does anyone else who has a plyron stage have any suggestions? Thanks Jason Salvatori Technical Director Vaughan City Playhouse ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:30:37 -0600 From: "Patrick Immel" Subject: Re: Plyron In-Reply-To: References: On 2/25/07, Jason Salvatori wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- . Does > anyone else who has a plyron stage have any suggestions? I put in a Plyron floor about 4 years ago...when I originally installed it, I put a two part floor primer down (I think from Sherwin Williams) and we have not had any problems. If the floor paint did scratch in the beginning, it just showed through to the grey primer. We paint our floor for every show then repaint with a hardware store black (ok, dark grey!). Now there is so much paint on the floor that scratches don't really show anyway! On the whole, I am pleased as punch with the floor. You can drop a bomb on that sucka and it comes back for more! Hope this helps! Pat -- Patrick Immel Lighting and Scenic Designer Northwest Missouri State University patrickimmel.com VW Designer V12.5 1GB Ram Dual-Core notebook Win XP sp2 ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:55:30 -0500 From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: Props question In-Reply-To: References:

> I wouldn't use retractable blades: too dangerous, oftentimes more so than > regular blades. Thank you! Thank you! Someone who agrees with me on this point (pun intended)! Woot! ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20070226035700.62677.qmail [at] web84002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 19:57:00 -0800 (PST) From: Al Fitch Subject: Re: Props question In-Reply-To: > Greetings all! > > I am the props master for a production of Big Love. > There is a trick > during a wedding scene where the three sisters grab > three goblets. > The tops come off and there are blades/spikes > embedded in the stems > with which they stab their would be husbands. We > originally planned > to use retractable blades, but they were too large > and looked silly. > The girls actually stab the boys, so it needs to be > something safe - > any suggestions from out there in the list? Thanks > all! > > Alicia Bailey > 1st year MFA Technology > Indiana University > Could the effect be made by "breaking" the gobblet and using the stem as the weapon? I picture breaking the top from the stem then palming the stem like brass knuckes. Al Be Kind, Smile and Have Fun. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:00:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Plyron From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > it currently has 2 coats of Rosco toughprime > on it, but after 1 week of use it is already very scratched up - > enough that the plyron surface is showing through the paint. Does > anyone else who has a plyron stage have any suggestions? Did you sand the floor before painting it? It's been a while since we laid our Plyron floor, but it seems to me we gave it a light sanding to scuff up the surface, Without doing so, it has a smooth surface that may not have enough tooth to hold the paint. Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director The Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:58:24 -0800 From: "Mt. Angel Performing Arts Center" Subject: Re: Bell Cord or Aircraft Cable for traveler? In-reply-to: Message-id: <45E27700.4090607 [at] mtangelperformingarts.com> References:

Clive Mitchell wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In message , Mt. Angel Performing Arts Center > writes >> we need to replace the rope on a motorized traveler. The existing >> bell cord's jacket has frayed to the point that it will no longer >> pass through the carriers. >> >> This is motorized only - never hand pulled. > > Be careful about setting the limits properly whether they be on the > winch itself or on the track. Failure to do so could have quite > awesome results. Some exciting possibilities are:- > > Winch torn clean off wall. > Winch drum snaps off. > Motor burns out. > Bent metalwork. > Fuses popped. > Tabs torn clean off drapes. > > All things I've come across in the past due to the use of powerful > winches with little or no protection against stalling. Even when > protection has been fitted it usually just takes one service by > someone less capable and any protection is defeated. > > Take for instance the system where the end limits arm had detached > form the switch. The motor would stall and ultimately blow the fuse. > The fix was apparently to buy lots of fuses and show everyone how to > put them into the control panel (shudder!). Then someone decided they > could fix it permanently with a much bigger fuse. And it did! (Cost > a fortune for the new winch.) > > Then there was the one where the phase rotation had obviously been > reversed during a refit and the motor was running in the wrong > direction for the buttons and limits. So instead of swapping two > phases they swapped the open/close button wiring on just one of the > two control points. Then the motor stalled on the (now wrong) limits > so they started to try and swap them but a wire came out and they lost > the drawing so they stuffed the random wire up the back of the > terminals and called us in...... That took a bit of head scratching > and reverse engineering to fix! > All excellent suggestions and I thank the contributors. The limit switches on our system gave up the ghost years ago.We modified the winch (1935 vintage, newly installed when the theatre was built) by adding a shop-built spring loaded leather disk clutch to the output sprocket of the worm drive and use low voltage momentary contact push buttons to run and reverse the motor through a couple of relays. Works great and completely idiot-proof for over 20 years so far - really! The plan is now modified to just replace the old bell cord instead of installing aircraft cable.. Anyone on the list recommend a good source for about 250' of 1/4" bell cord that we can get shipped to rural Oregon by Thursday or Friday? Thanks all for the advice - Carla ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1113.205.215.253.21.1172475159.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:32:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: First Gig From: "Bill Nelson" >> But if the person is not willing to use their heads to constantly >> think about (and >> double check) what they are doing, they are a hazard - and not only >> to themselves. >> Those are the people that I do not want on my crews. >> > > My apologies if I implied otherwise. No apology needed. As you may have noted from some of my previous posts, I am sometimes not explicit enough in what I write. Bill -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #1158 ******************************