Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.1.8 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #9 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 03:01:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #9 1. Re: Neccesities by Bruce Purdy 2. Re: Neccesities by "Tony Deeming" 3. Re: What happened to USITT? by Mitch Hefter 4. Re: repainting a muslin backdrop by "Joe Meils" 5. repainting a muslin drop by "neesa" 6. Re: Les Mis/ Opera spots by "Hofmann, Christopher" 7. Re: repainting a muslin backdrop by "jhwenger" 8. Re: repainting a muslin backdrop by Richard Niederberg 9. Undeliverable mail: Re: Stagecraft Digest #8 by Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com 10. Update announcement by Jerry Durand 11. Re: OSHA knowing about wire rope ladders by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com 12. Re: OSHA and Students by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com 13. Re: OSHA and Students by "Jon Ares" 14. Re: Stagehand falls to his death by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 15. Re: respect and reality Re: Stagehand killed in fall by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 16. Re: repainting a muslin backdrop by Jeff Forbes 17. Re: OSHA and Students by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 18. Re: OSHA and Students by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 19. Re: osha and students by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 20. Re: osha and students by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 21. Re: osha and students by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.6 Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:04:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Neccesities From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > To be honest, I believe that most people that consciously decide that they > absolutely MUST leave their phone on in a theatre, come what may, are > labouring under the misapprehension that they're important enough to warrant > it! This reminds me of the biggest laugh I got at a Magician's convention I attended last Fall. The MC said in his opening remarks: "Please turn your cell phones and pagers off during the show. You're not that important, and we're not that impressed!" Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000c01c43b5d$aa858190$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Neccesities Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:51:35 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Purdy" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 3:04 PM Subject: Re: Neccesities > For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending > your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: > http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > To be honest, I believe that most people that consciously decide that they > > absolutely MUST leave their phone on in a theatre, come what may, are > > labouring under the misapprehension that they're important enough to warrant > > it! > > This reminds me of the biggest laugh I got at a Magician's convention I > attended last Fall. The MC said in his opening remarks: > > "Please turn your cell phones and pagers off during the show. You're not > that important, and we're not that impressed!" > > Bruce > -- Exactly!!! 8-)) ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20040516113831.026bd480 [at] mail.DesignRelief.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.0.6 Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 11:46:09 -0500 From: Mitch Hefter Subject: Re: What happened to USITT? In-Reply-To: References: ON 5/15/2004, Jerry Durand wrote: >We're running low on the "join USITT" postcards so I sent a request in for >more (using the e-mail address on the cards), but it bounced. This isn't >good if the address on all the cards we give out doesn't work. USITT is certainly there. They changed the office info address to info [at] office.usitt.org a while back. Don't know why the old address doesn't work )a;though they may have turned it off due to spam). Occasionally, the server at Calgary has been down for a bit, and USITT is about to launch a new website, so those could be contributing factors. I am letting the VP Communications no about your problem so she can address it. Meanwhile, use the address above or call 800-93USITT (800-938 7488). > >A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its > >recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: > > >---------- >Jerry Durand >Durand Interstellar, Inc. >219 Oak Wood Way >Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA >tel: +1 408 356-3886 >fax: +1 408 356-4659 >web: www.interstellar.com . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mitch Hefter mitch.hefter [at] DesignRelief.com USITT Engineering Vice-Commissioner Office: Entertainment Technology / a Division of Genlyte Thomas mhefter [at] genlyte.com +1-214/ 647-7880 x 7967 (Direct Line 214/ 647-7967) +1-214/ 647-4738 Fax http://www.etdimming.com http://www.lolcontrols.com http://www.vari-lite.com http://www.genlyte.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002101c43b68$1ae57760$a6ecbed0 [at] hppav> From: "Joe Meils" References: Subject: Re: repainting a muslin backdrop Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 12:06:17 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 The problem with transporting a drop like this, by simply rolling it up, is the fact that she said it was 50 feet long. Now, unless they are going from show to show with an 18 wheeler equipped with a very long trailer, they are going to have to fold it in some way. In fact, thinking about it, you'd have to fold it instead of rolling it and then folding it over, because if you try to fold a rolled drop like that, the bend would place so much stress on the outside curve, that it would split the cloth! Imagine the difference between folding a napkin, and rolling it and then folding it in half. Wetting down the drop to help eliminate the wrinkles sounds like a good plan.... how long do you think it would take to dry? Joe Conway, Arkansas ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200405161746.i4GHkmm24826 [at] mail-relay.genericdns.com> From: "neesa" Subject: repainting a muslin drop Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:46:44 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: Thanks, everyone, for the advice. I think we've decided that in the long run, it's worth the extra expense to work with the supersaturated paint. In answer to Joe's question: >>>How will you be painting these? Lay them out on the floor, and then paint them according to a grid? Or, will you somehow mount them on a batten and paint them as they are moved incrementally upward?<<<< We're doing the latter. It's not a terribly complicated design -- It's an African landscape with animals and savannah silhouetted in black at the bottom against an orange and yellow sky -- so I'm confident that, for now, we're not biting off more than we can chew. I wouldn't want to try something like the NYC skyline the first time out of the gate! Neesa Hart ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Les Mis/ Opera spots Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 15:25:40 -0400 Message-ID: <56439B09A4ADDC46876BDFF2BBD35DF001C173BF [at] ex1.capecod.edu> From: "Hofmann, Christopher" On Friday, Herrick Goldman wrote "Yeah we (the scrappy little theater on Cape Cod)..." And I thought I had THE scrappy little theater on Cape Cod! Which one are you at? Christopher Hofmann Technical Director =20 Tilden Arts Center Cape Cod Community College 2240 Iyanough Road West Barnstable, MA 02668 =20 Office 508.362.2131 x4356 Fax 508.375.4113 Box Office 508.375.4044 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <14d201c43b84$39107c00$6501a8c0 [at] jon> From: "jhwenger" References: Subject: Re: repainting a muslin backdrop Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:27:33 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 We use five inch diameter aluminum irrigation pipe. Light weight, strong and available in 20' lengths. Jon Wenger Saratoga Drama Group > I have rolled it around pvc (of course, size of drop and > length of pvc can be a problem) and in the old days you > could buy long lengths of stovepipe. Roll drops roll > around a tube. Where do these tubes come from? > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 14:19:17 -0700 Subject: Re: repainting a muslin backdrop Message-ID: <20040516.143725.2224.2.ladesigners [at] juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 From: Richard Niederberg But standard rental trailers are 53', as are the majority of newer cargo containers that ride on 'skeleton' trailers, so the rolled drop WILL fit. If the show doesn't require a trailer of that size, you can use a different fold point each time you fold the drop, to minimize stress on the muslin and paint. /s/ Richard > Now, unless they are going from show to show with > an 18 wheeler equipped with a very long trailer, they > are going to have to fold it in some way. > Joe ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Subject: Undeliverable mail: Re: Stagecraft Digest #8 Message-ID: From: Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:51:38 -0400 Failed to deliver to 'stagecraft [at] theatrical.net' LIST module(list stagecraft [at] theatrical.net) reports: You should not reply on digest messages without changing the Subject field Reporting-MTA: dns; prxy.net Original-Recipient: rfc822; Final-Recipient: LIST; Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 Received: from internet.sarasotagov.com ([63.148.206.3] verified) by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 3427711 for stagecraft [at] theatrical.net; Sun, 16 May 2004 14:34:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Stagecraft Digest #8 To: "Stagecraft" X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.11 July 24, 2002 Message-ID: From: Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:34:58 -0400 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on IMAIL/SARACITY(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 05/16/2004 05:38:39 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20040516170219.00b1e548 [at] localhost> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.0.6 Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:06:54 -0700 Cc: Show-Control [at] yahoogroups.com From: Jerry Durand Subject: Update announcement I just sent this out to our customer list and got a lot of bounces, so hopefully people using our boxes read this list (and also let me know when their contact information changes). We have updated the firmware for our Model 4201 RS-232/USB to DMX Converter. An Increment/Decrement feature has been added to make it easier for architectural lighting systems (such as Crestron and others) to fade lights. The new feature may also be useful to people using a PLC or microcontroller to generate the commands. This update also fixes a minor bug when you save a null script. We have also added a new USB/HID demo program (with source code) for Windows. A Windows control program with many useful features is now being tested at a live theater, and will be available soon. The firmware update, new manual, and the USB/HID demo can be downloaded free of charge from our web page: http://interstellar.com/support.html As always, comments/suggestions always welcome. ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com Message-ID: <7d.4e30dace.2dd962f0 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:36:00 EDT Subject: Re: OSHA knowing about wire rope ladders X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5027 Good work Karl. Keep it up. Steve Vanciel Orlando, FL ------------------------------ From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com Message-ID: <59.bf64619.2dd9632f [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 20:37:03 EDT Subject: Re: OSHA and Students X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5027 Jon Ares wrote: >ALL activities, functions, persons follow OSHA and BOLI regulations. OSHA I know. Who is BOLI? Steve Vanciel Orlando, FL ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002f01c43bad$bc35f410$0201a8c0 [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: OSHA and Students Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 18:24:43 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 > OSHA I know. Who is BOLI? > Bureau Of Labor & Industry (Industries?) -- Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: Re: Stagehand falls to his death Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 21:01:47 -0700 Message-ID: <018f01c43bc3$adf06190$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3311 In-Reply-To: Mike Marriott: I know you know that all I do is work for the safety of all people in the entertainment industry. That is not surprising to those who know me, who agree or disagree to me. There are a few of us who have been working at all facets of safety for those in the industry ...and we continue, be it ladders or harnesses, or any other facets of the industry. There are regulations. What is required, and has not occurred, is the taking to heart the care for all those who work in the industry. The greed, the bottom line, the fast track, get it in, up, down and onto the next gig drives the industry and it takes in its wake so many with it. Safety, if indeed it existed, has taken a back seat ... This death is tragic, and it will not be the last, sad to say. Implementing regulations, attitudes, training, care and concern is not easy, and in spite of individuals and groups and companies who work toward safety, we are just at the beginning. Just like the Station fire, the rules are there, have been there, and though there are hanger on people who push their agendas, the rules have been there and need to be implemented. Changing attitudes is the most difficult, and it is only done one person by one person, at a time. There are no easy answers, and I have been at this longer than others, some sixty years. One day at a time, learn the rules, find them out, develop the mind set for compliance from reason and from concern. One person at a time. Seek accurate and truthful information, and involve others in the pursuit of safety and health. It can occur and all of us must work together. Respectfully, Dr. Randall Davidson .. a.k. a. Dr. Doom ==================================================== THE FIRST NATIONAL CONGRESS ON HEALTH AND SAFETY FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS IN THE SECONDARY SCHOOLS - Sponsored by ISETSA June 25, 26, 27, 2004 at Cardinal Stritch University, Milwaukee, Wisconsin ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Mike Marriott Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 7:10 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Stagehand falls to his death For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- Hello All, Just wondering if regulations in place would allow any person climbing a ladder not to have to ware a harness ? The reason I ask, is I went to a circus today; at the begginging a child was not more than about 3m (9ft 10in), and he was waring a fall arrest device, yet when performers were around 9m (29ft 6in) of the ground they could walk and climb freely around the rig. I though of this question as soon as I saw them climb the wire rope ladder. NB: they did have a net installed below, but it would not have caught them if the fell from the ladder. Kind Regards Mike Marriott -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Delbert Hall Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:30 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Stagehand falls to his death From USA Today "A stagehand working on a David Bowie concert in Miami died after a fall on Thursday. Wally Thomas, 44, was climbing a ladder at the James L. Knight Center when he lost his grip and fell 50 feet to his death. Emergency personnel tried to revive him, but he was pronounced dead after being taken to the hospital. The concert was canceled and will not be rescheduled." Anyone know any more about this accident? -Delbert ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: Re: respect and reality Re: Stagehand killed in fall Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 23:18:21 -0700 Message-ID: <01ba01c43bd6$c367dae0$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3311 In-Reply-To: OSHA does know about standards in our industry. Information has been sent to all of the regional offices on a regular basis, but that does not mean that every single OSHA compliance officer gets it or reads it. I have been meeting with OSHA national officers and directors, compliance personnel since OSHA began in 1970 .... different offices, etc. Four of the national committees I serve on have OSHA personnel on them, and they have directives from the national office to participate actively. 34 years of active involvement with many administrations. We meet with them five times a year and keep communication open with them, so that they know what we do in our industry. We have involved them over the years in our seminars, workshops, and USITT sessions. We continue this activity with them, and provide them with what we believe are industry guidelines, health, safety, fireworks, pyro, rigging, etc. We shall continue to do this. Also, we will continue to meet with U.S. Representatives and those who have committees dealing with health and safety. The USITT Health and Safety Commission and its members are involved in liaison with OSHA and its offices, and a few of them are trained and certified in OSHA workshops. Paul Sullivan has conducted over 100 workshops in OSHA guidelines. The USITT Health and Safety Commission will have as a regular session at USITT conventions OSHA training. Respectfully, Dr. Randall Davidson, Health and Safety Commissioner Emeritus, USITT ==================================================== THE FIRST NATIONAL CONGRESS ON HEALTH AND SAFETY FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS IN THE SECONDARY SCHOOLS - Sponsored by ISETSA June 25, 26, 27, 2004 at Cardinal Stritch University, Milwaukee, Wisconsin ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of kim.hartshorn [at] plattsburgh.edu Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 7:49 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: respect and reality Re: Stagehand killed in fall For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- This quoted remark is in incredibly poor taste and indicates a lack of understanding on the various conditions that could have affected this tragic situation. My technical director and I have already speculated on dozens of situations we have witnessed personally that could have contributed to this accident...none of them excusable...all of them perfectly plausible starting with someone forgetting to drop pull-lines for the hooks before they flew the truss. The newspaper article in the Miami Hearald titled 'Harness is Focus in Fatal Fall' is extremely illuminating especially the remark by the local OSHA inspector stating that he had never seen this type of ladder before. It was apparently a standard issue steel rope ladder most of us have used many many times. Does OSHA really know anything at all about our industry? or does it seem to anyone else that we are constantly trying to adapt our practices to OSHA guidelines created for different industries. What about our equipment suppliers? Does Genie have to work with OSHA guidelines for man-lifts that assume that the primary use is going to be replacing lightbulbs in airport terminals? Would specific 'theatre industry' guidelines result in a different solution to man-lifts that was both safe and convenenient? I wonder, and I feel for the friends and family of Wally Thomas. In Solidarity Kim Hartshorn IA local 749 > For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending > your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: > http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ > --------------------------------------------------- > > > Uhh Darwin? > > ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 23:28:24 -0700 From: Jeff Forbes Subject: Re: repainting a muslin backdrop >We use five inch diameter aluminum irrigation pipe. Light weight, strong and >available in 20' lengths. > >Jon Wenger >Saratoga Drama Group Also available in longer lengths. I've used 40' lengths for a roll drop. Getting it into the theatre was a trick. The stage is one floor below street level, with a freight elevator that goes down to reach the stage. We had to by-pass the safeties on the doors, so the elevator could be on the 3rd level and we opened the doors on the second and first levels and passed the pipe through the shaft. -- Jeff A Forbes PMB 124 6820 SE Foster Rd Portland, OR 97206 (503) 888-5619 ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: Re: OSHA and Students Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 23:36:26 -0700 Message-ID: <01f201c43bd9$47eb1ff0$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3311 In-Reply-To: From Dr. Doom: absolutely correct Ron. This has been an ongoing argument, discussion, and explanation for as long as I can recall ..... and your words are accurate and correct. Dr. D ==================================================== THE FIRST NATIONAL CONGRESS ON HEALTH AND SAFETY FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS IN THE SECONDARY SCHOOLS - Sponsored by ISETSA June 25, 26, 27, 2004 at Cardinal Stritch University, Milwaukee, Wisconsin ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Ron Cargile Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 9:59 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: OSHA and Students For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- In a recent post, Unka Bill said "It's not an opinion. Gravity works everywhere. The OSHA regs cover every worker be they brain surgeons or stagehands. Students are not covered as they are not employees. This holds for theatre students and med students alike." I would like to point out that his statement, while not wrong, can be misleading. A student ceases to be a "student" if they are a TA, work study, or have been asked to help out for pay. Here at UCI, all of the grad students that I work with are considered employees becauses they are all Teaching Assistants. If the student works in the library, he's still an employee if he is helping out in the theatre. Also, schools, especially state schools, are held to tighter scrutiny than most other places, as we are supposed to be working in the public interest. At least that's been my experience here. YMMV Better to hold to the regs and be safe than find out you should have been the hard way. ....Ron __________ Ron Cargile Electrics & Audio Supervisor Claire Trevor School of the Arts University of California, Irvine ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: Re: OSHA and Students Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 23:42:18 -0700 Message-ID: <01f501c43bda$19ec1c70$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3311 In-Reply-To: Interesting comments. Because we deal with hundreds of school districts across the country, we find a good deal of what you say is correct, with the exception that insurance carriers have deaf ears. My work with many more than sixty insurance carriers and ten international insurance brokers (as well as the largest insurance carrier for entertainment in the world) seems to be different than yours. The Loss Control Personnel and Risk Managers of these companies have been concerned and accept our input and apply it in the districts within which they work. L.A. city, Burbank, Pasadena, Huntington Beach, Fountain Valley, and hundreds of others have been very receptive .. in the East, and in the Southern United States. Often then need educating, but that is one task that we fulfill for them. Dr. doom ==================================================== THE FIRST NATIONAL CONGRESS ON HEALTH AND SAFETY FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS IN THE SECONDARY SCHOOLS - Sponsored by ISETSA June 25, 26, 27, 2004 at Cardinal Stritch University, Milwaukee, Wisconsin ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jon Ares Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 10:25 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: OSHA and Students For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron Cargile" > Also, schools, especially state schools, are held to tighter scrutiny than > most other places, as we are supposed to be working in the public interest. I'll concur with this... at my school (a high school), all this stuff has come up time and time again (see the archives re: personnel lifts). Although the students are NOT employees (even the TAs), they have to follow OSHA guidelines, but not deemed so by OSHA itself - but rather because the District's insurance carriers have decided (because it's easier) to mandate that ALL activities, functions, persons follow OSHA and BOLI regulations. Our arguments defending our situation is different than a meat-packing plant falls on deaf ears when it comes to the insurance carriers. -- Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: Re: osha and students Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 23:47:00 -0700 Message-ID: <01fc01c43bda$c1b7e420$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3311 In-Reply-To: Good comment. There are more regulations and Standards of Care that we must apply to our conduct in our work, and students indeed take our example .. as the years seem to tell us. Doomster ==================================================== THE FIRST NATIONAL CONGRESS ON HEALTH AND SAFETY FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS IN THE SECONDARY SCHOOLS - Sponsored by ISETSA June 25, 26, 27, 2004 at Cardinal Stritch University, Milwaukee, Wisconsin ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Chuck Mitchell Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:32 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: osha and students For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- Students (non-employee students) are not covered by OSHA, but lets remember that we are teaching habits to these students. Keeping the OSHA standards as our standards will (hopefully) make safety their standard operating procedure when they leave school. Chuck Chuck Mitchell Scene Studio Supervisor University Theatre - University of Wisconsin-Madison 608-263-3330 FAX 608-265-4075 ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: Re: osha and students Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 23:49:11 -0700 Message-ID: <01fd01c43bdb$102c45b0$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3311 In-Reply-To: No one will argue that training is paramount, and that doing it before they go out in the real world is an excellent item to keep in mind at all times. I concur, and although I know the conditions of so many secondary schools, I think it is even more important ... to emphasize more and more strict training and testing. Dr. Doom ==================================================== THE FIRST NATIONAL CONGRESS ON HEALTH AND SAFETY FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS IN THE SECONDARY SCHOOLS - Sponsored by ISETSA June 25, 26, 27, 2004 at Cardinal Stritch University, Milwaukee, Wisconsin ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jon Ares Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:49 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: osha and students For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- > Students (non-employee students) are not covered by OSHA, but lets remember > that we are teaching habits to these students. Keeping the OSHA standards > as our standards will (hopefully) make safety their standard operating > procedure when they leave school. Promoting safety by example is all fine and good, but where things get to be inhibiting is such things as not being able to train a student to use a personnel lift. (I don't have my documentation with me - this may be more of a BOLI issue, and not OSHA.) I'd rather teach students to safely and properly use lifts before they go out in the 'real world' and find gonzos using them without outriggers (if they're designed to operate with them in place) or doing other stupid things up in a bucket. -- Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: Re: osha and students Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 23:50:52 -0700 Message-ID: <01fe01c43bdb$4d127b70$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3311 In-Reply-To: WE have organized a number of workshops around lifts ... and indeed it is an excellent idea to have the Lift company come in an spend time instructing the students .... and the instructor. And the instructor. Doom ==================================================== THE FIRST NATIONAL CONGRESS ON HEALTH AND SAFETY FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS IN THE SECONDARY SCHOOLS - Sponsored by ISETSA June 25, 26, 27, 2004 at Cardinal Stritch University, Milwaukee, Wisconsin ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bsapsis [at] aol.com Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:57 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: osha and students For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 5/14/04 3:51:59 PM, jonares [at] hevanet.com writes: << I'd rather teach students to safely and properly use lifts before they go out in the 'real world' and find gonzos using them without outriggers (if they're designed to operate with them in place) or doing other stupid things up in a bucket. >> The best way to do this is to bring in the local lift rep and have them teach the class. It's usually about 4 hours long and...in theory...they're more familiar with the gear than anyone else. there's also the issue of shared liability. If you teach the class you don't get to share with anybody. Be well Bill S. Sapsis Rigging, Inc. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax We stand behind, and under, our work. Check out the Long Beach Long Riders cross country fund raiser for BC/EFA at http://sapsis-rigging.com/LBLR.html ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #9 ***************************