Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.1.8 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #10 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 03:00:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #10 1. Re: What happened to USITT? by "Stephen E. Rees" 2. Re: repainting a muslin backdrop by Steve Larson 3. Re: repainting a muslin backdrop by "Joe Meils" 4. Re: repainting a muslin backdrop by Stephen Litterst 5. Re: Folding a drop by "Paul Guncheon" 6. Re: OSHA rules applied to non-employees by "Karl G. Ruling" 7. Re: Folding a drop by Steve Larson 8. Re: OSHA rules applied to non-employees by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 9. Small theatre in Cape Cod... by David Carrico 10. Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 11. Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... by 12. Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 13. Re: AutoCad 3D plotting by Michael Powers 14. Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels by "Jon Ares" 15. Re: AutoCad LT by "Booth, Dennis" 16. Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... by Rigger 17. Re: OSHA rules applied to non-employees by MissWisc [at] aol.com 18. Wal-Mart by Michael Powers 19. Re: Folding a drop by Kyle Dugger 20. Re: Low Light/IR Sensitive Camera and Illuminator by Stephen Litterst 21. Re: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels by Samuel Jones 22. Re: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels by Jeff Forbes 23. Re: Wal-Mart by "Tony Deeming" 24. Re: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels by "Tony Deeming" 25. Re: Folding a drop by "Tony Deeming" 26. Re: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels by "Jon Ares" 27. Re: Wal-Mart by Pat Kight 28. Re: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels by "Paul Schreiner" 29. Re: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels by Jeff Forbes 30. Re: Wal-Mart by Wood Chip-P26398 31. Re: Wal-Mart by "Tony Deeming" 32. Re: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels by "Tony Deeming" 33. Re: Wal-Mart by Simon Shuker 34. Re: Wal-Mart by IAEG [at] aol.com 35. Re: Wal-Mart by Charlie Richmond 36. Re: Wal-Mart by "Jason" 37. Re: Wal-Mart by Rigger 38. Re: Wal-Mart by Pat Kight 39. Re: Wal-Mart by Pat Kight 40. Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... by Herrick 41. Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... by IAEG [at] aol.com 42. Re: Wal-Mart by IAEG [at] aol.com 43. Re: Wal-Mart by "Storms, Randy" 44. Re: Wal-Mart by Rigger 45. Re: Wal-Mart by "Tony Deeming" 46. Re: Wal-Mart by Rigger 47. Re: Wal-Mart by IAEG [at] aol.com 48. Computer Clock Program by Eric Minton 49. Re: Wal-Mart by "Tony Deeming" 50. Re: Wal-Mart by Herrick 51. Re: Wal-Mart by "Joe Meils" 52. Parnel Barn Doors by "Chad Croteau" 53. Re: dance floor (long-ish) by "Michael Finney" 54. Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... by bernard [at] hartford.edu 55. Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... by Herrick 56. Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 57. Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... by Herrick 58. Re: OSHA and Students by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com 59. Re: Computer Clock Program by mike.stagelist [at] optusnet.com.au 60. Re: Wal-Mart by MissWisc [at] aol.com 61. Re: Wal-Mart by "Joe Meils" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <40A8B173.1000506 [at] fredonia.edu> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:34:59 -0400 From: "Stephen E. Rees" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 Subject: Re: What happened to USITT? References: Jerry, try just www.usitt.org in the url. That should get you to the homepage Steve Rees > We're running low on the "join USITT" postcards [snipped] ------------------------------ User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:19:12 -0400 Subject: Re: repainting a muslin backdrop From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Are some of you actually thinking that the drop would be rolled top to bottom or vice versa? Roll end to end. Duh! Steve on 5/16/04 1:06 PM, Joe Meils at bipolarber [at] cyberback.com wrote: > For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending > your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: > http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ > --------------------------------------------------- > > > The problem with transporting a drop like this, by simply rolling it up, > is the fact that she said it was 50 feet long. Now, unless they are going > from show to show with an 18 wheeler equipped with a very long trailer, they > are going to have to fold it in some way. > In fact, thinking about it, you'd have to fold it instead of rolling it > and then folding it over, because if you try to fold a rolled drop like > that, the bend would place so much stress on the outside curve, that it > would split the cloth! > Imagine the difference between folding a napkin, and rolling it and then > folding it in half. > > Wetting down the drop to help eliminate the wrinkles sounds like a good > plan.... how long do you think it would take to dry? > > Joe > Conway, Arkansas > > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001001c43c12$c962f4c0$b0ecbed0 [at] hppav> From: "Joe Meils" References: Subject: Re: repainting a muslin backdrop Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:28:04 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Steve, Good point. That means the drop will actually be only 18' to 25' long. Depending on their budget, they will still have to beg, borrow or steal a truck long enough to carry it. If they could fold it, then perhaps their show could be fit into a van. I know I'm probably dwelling on tiny details, but with gas up around $2.00 a gallon... and the rental prices of trucks... This all adds up to taking a hefty chunk of a show's budget. Joe Conway, Arkansas > Are some of you actually thinking that the drop > would be rolled top to bottom or vice versa? > Roll end to end. Duh! > > Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:53:08 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: repainting a muslin backdrop Message-id: <40A8C3C4.5C79B821 [at] ithaca.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) References:

Joe Meils wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > Wetting down the drop to help eliminate the wrinkles sounds like a good > plan.... how long do you think it would take to dry? Do a light spray with hot water from a hudson just before lunch. It will dry easily in that time frame and you should still be able to have time to do a second treatment if necessary. Depending on how wet you get it (and the humidity in your theatre) our drops usually dried within a 1/2 hour. Steve Litterst -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000901c43c17$50432ab0$0202a8c0 [at] MyLastPC> From: "Paul Guncheon" References: Subject: Re: Folding a drop Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 04:00:28 -1000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 I can't remember having seen a drop being shipped rolled on a tube. They usually arrive folded and stored/shipped either in a muslin bag or hamper. When hung they did usually have wrinkles but weighting them with a bottom pipe and, in extreme cases, spraying the back of the drop with water (drying time: overnight) took care of the worst of them. Proper lighting (front rather than side, up, or down) mostly made wrinkles a non issue. Even drops that had been stored folded for years looked fine when lit correctly. There were exceptions however. Drops that had been repainted many times and stored for long periods of time eventually developed hard creases with cracked paint and only looked good when lit dark. Laters, Paul "All that's left are the front and back," Tom said decidedly. ------------------------------ From: "Karl G. Ruling" Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:07:56 -0400 Subject: Re: OSHA rules applied to non-employees Message-ID: <40A88EFC.4663.33C2704E [at] localhost> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) > > I'll concur with this... at my school (a high school), all this stuff > has come up time and time again (see the archives re: personnel > lifts). Although the students are NOT employees (even the TAs), they > have to follow OSHA guidelines, but not deemed so by OSHA itself - but > rather because the District's insurance carriers have decided (because > it's easier) to mandate that ALL activities, functions, persons follow > OSHA and BOLI regulations. Our arguments defending our situation is > different than a meat-packing plant falls on deaf ears when it comes > to the insurance carriers. I think with good reason. OSHA rules are designed to protect workers doing what they do on the job from injury and death. For the most part, the rules work. If you have a situation in which people are doing the kind of work for which OSHA has rules, the rules are very likely to provide protection for them too, even if the people are not officially employees and even if the workers do not think of themselves as being part of the industry for which OSHA has specifically written rules. I often hear the argument that "the OSHA rules don't apply" when I go to trade shows and talk about standards, and when I do it strikes me as perverse thinking. Usually the person making the argument seems to have the view that running a shop or a theatre as some sort of game with obscure rules. If he can just find the right rule that says the other rules don't apply, he can have more fun playing the game and maybe win. (Bigger sets! Lower costs! Faster! Less work!) Alternatively, the view is that the OSHA rules are rules laid down by the Federal Father, and if one of the Federal Father's rules says the other ones don't have to be followed, then, if something goes wrong it's okay because the Federal Father allowed it. However, the OSHA rules aren't game rules, things to make things complicated and to determine who wins and who loses, and we're not children who can escape responsibility for the consequences of our actions. The purpose of all the rules is to ensure that no one gets hurt. In the final analysis, the important question is, "Was someone injured?" The question is not, "Did you follow the rules?" Normally, no one asks, "Did you follow the rules?" if the answer to the first question is, "No, no one was injured." The goal should be to run an operation so safely that no one ever asks that second question. To dismiss some rules that offer obvious guidance for a safer workplace because they only apply to employees or they only apply to the construction industry or whatever is just daft. ------------------------------ User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:10:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Folding a drop From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I suggested rolling the drop if it was stiff and might crack from folding. Ordinarily I would fold the drop. Of course, drops always go up first to allow them time to hang out. I don't used chains in the bottom, only pipe. The weight always seems to be enough to provide sufficient tension to hang out the wrinkles. Care in folding is important also. Steve on 5/17/04 10:00 AM, Paul Guncheon at paul.guncheon [at] verizon.net wrote: > For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending > your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: > http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ > --------------------------------------------------- > > > I can't remember having seen a drop being shipped rolled on a tube. They > usually arrive folded and stored/shipped either in a muslin bag or hamper. > When hung they did usually have wrinkles but weighting them with a bottom > pipe and, in extreme cases, spraying the back of the drop with water (drying > time: overnight) took care of the worst of them. Proper lighting (front > rather than side, up, or down) mostly made wrinkles a non issue. Even drops > that had been stored folded for years looked fine when lit correctly. > > There were exceptions however. Drops that had been repainted many times and > stored for long periods of time eventually developed hard creases with > cracked paint and only looked good when lit dark. > > Laters, > > Paul > > "All that's left are the front and back," Tom said decidedly. > > > ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1ac.24607f12.2dda390d [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:49:33 EDT Subject: Re: OSHA rules applied to non-employees X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 7 OK. My turn to clarify. When I mentioned that students were not covered by OSHA, I meant they weren't legally covered. Yes, when students are not students (work study, TA's etc.) then they are legally covered. But...where I come from, gravity doesn't know this distinction and continues to work 24/7 regardless of human classification. So just because a student isn't covered by some regulation doesn't mean that he or she is actually safe from harm I would expect...no...require is better...that everyone treat all workers, be they paid, volunteer, student, indentured, whatever..with the same respect for their health and safety. And the thing about the Fall Arrest regulations is that, as Karl mentioned, they really do work. If you use the gear that OSHA has identified as appropriate and you use it in the proscribed manner, you will not suffer a serious injury and you won't die. The two things rate high in my book. Back to work now. Bill S. Sapsis Rigging, Inc. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax We stand behind, and under, our work. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20040517155946.53005.qmail [at] web14610.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 08:59:46 -0700 (PDT) From: David Carrico Subject: Small theatre in Cape Cod... In-Reply-To: Fellas, I think I will be working in the smallest theatre on Cape Cod, Monomoy theatre in Chatham. We should all do a small Cape Cod theatre tour, and catch a Cape Cod league ballgame in each city (town? Are there actually "cities" on the Cape?). Left field of Veteran's Field is only 150' from the scene shop! Contact me off list! Dave Carrico Technical Director Monomoy Theatre __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1df.20b73216.2dda3c27 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:02:47 EDT Subject: Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 7 In a message dated 5/17/04 12:00:26 PM, davecarrico3000 [at] yahoo.com writes: << I think I will be working in the smallest theatre on Cape Cod, Monomoy theatre in Chatham. We should all do a small Cape Cod theatre tour, and catch a Cape Cod league ballgame in each city (town? Are there actually "cities" on the Cape?). Left field of Veteran's Field is only 150' from the scene shop! Contact me off list! >> ROAD TRIP! Sapsis Rigging, Inc. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax We stand behind, and under, our work. ------------------------------ X-Mailer: Openwave WebEngine, version 2.8.12 (webedge20-101-197-20030912) From: Subject: Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:19:45 -0400 Message-Id: <20040517161945.ZQMG1534.de-fe01.dejazzd.com [at] de-fe01> > ROAD TRIP! > > Sapsis Rigging, Inc. Your just looking for any excuse to get back on that bike. I thought you would have had enough for a while. Greg Bierly Hempfield HS ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1e4.207ef3c9.2dda44eb [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:40:11 EDT Subject: Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 7 In a message dated 5/17/04 12:20:33 PM, gbierly [at] dejazzd.com writes: << Your just looking for any excuse to get back on that bike. I thought you would have had enough for a while. >> ??????????????Enough?????????????? What is the meaning of this word enough???? <> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:51:46 -0400 From: Michael Powers Subject: Re: AutoCad 3D plotting Message-id: <1084812706.40a8eda2225ab [at] mail-www3.oit.umass.edu> User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2 "F. Randy deCelle" writes: << .... However, Michael was asking about plotting a 3D Rendering, which, I think implies shading, not just hiding lines. ..... >> Randy, you are correct. I can print the hidden lines removed version quite easily just in the plot window click on "HIDE". It is indeed the shading that I would like to print. << ..... the only way I have found is to render to a file and Insert Raster Image. ..... >> I must be missing something. I tried this and it created an empty file. When I look at the file I created in the show folder, it lists as 0 KB and of course when I try to open it there is only a blank screen. Any ideas where I'm taking the wrong turn?? Michael Michael Powers, Technical Director UMass Theatre Department 112 FAC West 151 Presidents Drive, Ofc.2 Amherst, Ma. 01003-9331 413-545-6821 voice 413-577-0025 fax mfpowers [at] theater.umass.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002c01c43c2f$b6e50b90$0201a8c0 [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" Subject: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:55:09 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 Greetings all... after visiting the archives, I thought I'd bring this subject back to the light... specifically asking for more war stories and impressions of ETC PARnels versus standard fresnel fixtures. (As this topic has come around before, most tales were from people who'd only played with them at a tradeshow, or were comparing them to S4 PARS.) I'd like to hear from folks who've been using them with, or in replacement of, fresnels. Barndooring was a question raised a few times - what's the verdict on that? (Clean cuts, or not?) Has the alleged 'dark spot' in the middle of the spot/flood range been dealt with? -- Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <659CC0547BC6D3118B9200508BC270EA035BB5A5 [at] mail.ncarts.edu> From: "Booth, Dennis" Subject: Re: AutoCad LT Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:51:18 -0400 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Chip, Welcome to North Carolina! We use the McGraw Hill AutoCAD 2004 Instructor text by James Leach here at NCSA. I'll look forward to meeting you! DGB Dennis Gill Booth, Technical Director North Carolina School of the Arts School of Design and Production 1553 South Main Street PO Box 12189 Winston-Salem, NC 27117-2189 * Voice: (336)770-3232 x127 * FAX: (336)770-3213 * Email: boothd [at] ncarts.edu * D&P URL: http://www.ncarts.edu/ncsaprod/designandproduction/ * Faculty URL: http://faculty.ncarts.edu/dandp/booth/ -----Original Message----- From: Chip Haas [mailto:chaas [at] bsu.edu] Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 4:42 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: AutoCad LT For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- Hey there everyone, it sure is great to have the list back. I will be moving this fall to join the faculty at the University of North Carolina Greensboro and I have a slight problem. They use AutoCad there and I've only used MacDraft and Vectorworks. So I'm now trying to learn AutoCad as a summer project. Anyway, they've shipped me an old computer (okay, not old, but spare) that has AutoCad on it. ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:04:36 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... (OFF-TOPIC ALERT! THOSE WITH TIGHT-ASSES DELETE NOW!) At 12:40 PM -0400 5/17/04, Bsapsis [at] aol.com wrote: >> Your just looking for any excuse to get back on that bike. >> I thought you would have had enough for a while. > > ??????????????Enough?????????????? What is the meaning > of this word enough???? I think it's a modifier that people mistakenly think also applies to motorcycling. (the fools...) FWIW, I spent yesterday swapping engines in my old GoldWing. Should be back on two wheels tomorrow, for the first time since the Old Girl's tranny grenaded last August. Oh, the DTs were fierce.... -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University Carpe Per Diem ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <149.297f843f.2dda4adf [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:05:35 EDT Subject: Re: OSHA rules applied to non-employees Cc: Bsapsis [at] aol.com X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 In a message dated 5/17/4 10:50:12 AM, Bsapsis [at] aol.com wrote: <> May I add from recent knowledge learned from this list, Uncle... AND if those working WITH you know how to rescue you once you're dangling mid-air. See earlier threads on this... and practice it in advance. If anyone wants more info on how-to and where to get the equipment/training needed, just ask and I'm certain the several list members who do this for a living (pun intended!!) will be happy to help! Does you no good to use the right things in the right way if those around you aren't able to help the process. Be safe out there! Kristi P.S. A special thanks to the fine folks in New Haven, Conn. who warmly welcomed my hubby Brian back to the road. :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:05:53 -0400 From: Michael Powers Subject: Wal-Mart Message-id: <1084813553.40a8f0f1eb16a [at] mail-www3.oit.umass.edu> User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2 I don't want to get into a long discussion on this. I'll say it once and shut-up. First, Wal-Mart IS one of my local venders and is very involved in the local community. Last year the store I frequent donated over $20,000 to local charities and raised or helped raise another $17,500. That's just this one store. All their stores are involved in their local communities in the same way. They give our theatre special discounts and in some cases have donated items to this and other theatres in the area. I visited the anti Wal-mart site someone posted here and was a bit shocked. My wife has worked for Wal-Mart for over 12 years in three different states, in markets from a small town to a mega city, and I can say from personal experience that everything on that website is patently untrue, out-of-context or facts skewed to present a false picture. Michael Michael Powers, Technical Director UMass Theatre Department 112 FAC West 151 Presidents Drive, Ofc.2 Amherst, Ma. 01003-9331 413-545-6821 voice 413-577-0025 fax mfpowers [at] theater.umass.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <18858003.1084817659203.JavaMail.root [at] bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:14:18 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Kyle Dugger Subject: Re: Folding a drop X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 in extreme cases, spraying the back of the drop with water (drying time: overnight) took care of the worst of them. Spraying a drop with water can be a dangerous move. especially if it has been treated with a flame retardant. I tried this once and ended up having to rent a drop to replace the one that was damaged by spraying it with water. It did remove the wrinkles but the flame retardant leached out onto the front of the paint giving the drop a nice white crusty appearance. kyle dugger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 14:18:51 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Low Light/IR Sensitive Camera and Illuminator Message-id: <40A9020B.35ED6685 [at] ithaca.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) References:

Steve Boone wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > Does anybody have any recommendations for a low light > sensitive camera and infrared flood? We're trying to move into the > late 20th century here, and I think we might have the money for one, > somewhere. We've been looking at the Panasonic WV-BP330. It's a black and white 1/3" CCD Camera that accepts 'C' or 'CS' mount lenses. We did a test run last spring and it picked up pretty well. I haven't had much luck with IR floods yet. Still looking for those. Let me know what you come up with. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:21:00 -0700 Subject: Re: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels From: Samuel Jones In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) I just did a comparison of Parnels with 6" Altman Fresnels and 6" Kliegl Fresnels that I own. I then went to a rental house and compared a random Parnel from their rental stock to 2 different Selecon Fresnel units. We then compared them to an 8" Altman 2K TV studio fixture. Lamped at 750w, 115v, the Parnels won every time, and won most of the time lamped at 575w. I didn't notice any dark spots. The Parnels have a good and comparable flood/spot focus range, but most of the Fresnels had the larger flood/spot range. This was not an extensive testing. Conspicuously missing were my 1K 6" Century Fresnels that I like a lot but are loaned out while our facility is being renovated. I didn't do any testing with barndoors. Taking into account the limits of my test, I put 88 Parnels on the equipment list for the new facility. HTH, Sam Samuel L. Jones Technical Director, Dance Program Dept. of World Arts and Cultures, UCLA (310) 825-5823 sjones [at] arts.ucla.edu ========================================================== On Monday, May 17, 2004, at 09:55 AM, Jon Ares wrote: > For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending > your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: > http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ > --------------------------------------------------- > > > Greetings all... after visiting the archives, I thought I'd bring this > subject back to the light... specifically asking for more war stories > and > impressions of ETC PARnels versus standard fresnel fixtures. (As this > topic > has come around before, most tales were from people who'd only played > with > them at a tradeshow, or were comparing them to S4 PARS.) > > I'd like to hear from folks who've been using them with, or in > replacement > of, fresnels. Barndooring was a question raised a few times - what's > the > verdict on that? (Clean cuts, or not?) Has the alleged 'dark spot' > in the > middle of the spot/flood range been dealt with? > > -- Jon Ares > www.hevanet.com/acreative > > ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:43:29 -0700 From: Jeff Forbes Subject: Re: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels >I'd like to hear from folks who've been using them with, or in replacement >of, fresnels. Barndooring was a question raised a few times - what's the >verdict on that? (Clean cuts, or not?) Has the alleged 'dark spot' in the >middle of the spot/flood range been dealt with? Jon, Portland Actors Conservatory replaced all their old gear with Source 4s, including 24 Parnels, so I've used them quite a bit in show situations. Have never noticed a dark spot, the field seems generally even all the way. Like the S4 PAR, they don't have quite as big a spread as their counterparts in the 6" fresnel world, which is a bit of a liability in a space like the Conservatory's where the grid is only 12' above the stage. But they're a lot brighter. -- Jeff A Forbes PMB 124 6820 SE Foster Rd Portland, OR 97206 (503) 888-5619 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <020601c43c3f$2c3d0820$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Wal-Mart Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 19:45:49 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Powers" > > I don't want to get into a long discussion on this. I'll say it > once and shut-up. > > First, Wal-Mart IS one of my local venders and is very involved in > the local community. Last year the store I frequent donated over > $20,000 to local charities and raised or helped raise another > $17,500. That's just this one store. All their stores are involved > in their local communities in the same way. They give our theatre > special discounts and in some cases have donated items to this and > other theatres in the area. > > I visited the anti Wal-mart site someone posted here and was a bit > shocked. My wife has worked for Wal-Mart for over 12 years in three > different states, in markets from a small town to a mega city, and I > can say from personal experience that everything on that website is > patently untrue, out-of-context or facts skewed to present a false > picture. > > Michael > And although Walmart have taken over the UK Asda chain, they also do a lot of charitable support work here. We always do our weekly shopping there, and are likely to continue, as I see no real reasons not to. End. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <01f601c43c3e$ec976440$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 19:44:02 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Ares" > > Greetings all... after visiting the archives, I thought I'd bring this > subject back to the light... specifically asking for more war stories and > impressions of ETC PARnels versus standard fresnel fixtures. (As this topic > has come around before, most tales were from people who'd only played with > them at a tradeshow, or were comparing them to S4 PARS.) > > I'd like to hear from folks who've been using them with, or in replacement > of, fresnels. Barndooring was a question raised a few times - what's the > verdict on that? (Clean cuts, or not?) Has the alleged 'dark spot' in the > middle of the spot/flood range been dealt with? > > -- Jon Ares Hi, Jon. We have 1 dozen in our (small-ish) in our stage inventory, soon to be 14, when they arrive. Compared to the old 223/743's that are on stage bar 2, the ParNels are excellent. The only thing that we find mildly irritating is the fact that the darker gels tend to age quicker, despite they're being only 750's. Once I get my hands on some extra gel frames, tho. I'll be putting a permanent heat shield in the first slot. Barn doors - can't comment as we have none at this stage, but I suspect they'd be a plus if we did! Can't say I've noticed any dark spots at all..... Ynot ------------------------------ Message-ID: <020e01c43c3f$724ad6d0$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Folding a drop Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 19:47:46 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kyle Dugger" > > in extreme cases, spraying the back of the drop with water (drying > time: overnight) took care of the worst of them. > > Spraying a drop with water can be a dangerous move. especially if it has been treated with a flame retardant. I tried this once and ended up having to rent a drop to replace the one that was damaged by spraying it with water. It did remove the wrinkles but the flame retardant leached out onto the front of the paint giving the drop a nice white crusty appearance. > > kyle dugger > I've had to ditch a set of blacks because they got wet when stored temporarily in a dressing room which suffered from a water leak from the floor above. Lovely dark patches where the water had washed away the dust (!) and as you say, nice grey-white edges. Cost only marginally more to have new tabs than it would to have them cleaned, and cleaning would have possibly ruined the FR. Ynot ------------------------------ Message-ID: <005d01c43c40$b0fed240$0201a8c0 [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:56:40 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 > Portland Actors Conservatory replaced all their old gear with Source > 4s, including 24 Parnels, so I've used them quite a bit in show Thanks Jeff. That's very helpful. Being familiar with that space, it gives me a good perspective of what to expect. I'm considering PARnels for both replacing aging 6" fresnels, as well as spec'ing them for a new 600-seater. The black box only has a grid of about 14-16', and of course the mainstage is higher, so any and all input from other users is welcome. Jeff, have you used barndoors with the Parnels at PAC? Does ART use any Parnels? -- Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <40A90E34.9050402 [at] peak.org> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:10:44 -0700 From: Pat Kight User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 Subject: Re: Wal-Mart References:

In-Reply-To: Tony Deeming wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Michael Powers" > > >>I don't want to get into a long discussion on this. I'll say it >>once and shut-up. >> >>First, Wal-Mart IS one of my local venders and is very involved in >>the local community. Last year the store I frequent donated over >>$20,000 to local charities and raised or helped raise another >>$17,500. That's just this one store. All their stores are involved >>in their local communities in the same way. They give our theatre >>special discounts and in some cases have donated items to this and >>other theatres in the area. >> >>I visited the anti Wal-mart site someone posted here and was a bit >>shocked. My wife has worked for Wal-Mart for over 12 years in three >>different states, in markets from a small town to a mega city, and I >>can say from personal experience that everything on that website is >>patently untrue, out-of-context or facts skewed to present a false >>picture. >> >>Michael >> >> >> >And although Walmart have taken over the UK Asda chain, they also do a lot >of charitable support work here. >We always do our weekly shopping there, and are likely to continue, as I see >no real reasons not to. > > I shop at Home Depot, too. But then, I don't have much choice. After they opened their big box store here, virtually all of the real hardware and lumber stores around in our area went out of business - including the one that was right across the street from our theater. I miss being able to run across the street during a construction party to ask guys with decades of hardware sales experience exactly which screw, nail or widget would work best for the application I had in mind. I miss being able to say, "I need something that looks like *this*, and can be bent like *that* - whaddya got?" and the sales guys being genuinely interested in what those crazy theater people were doing now. I miss having the kind of charge account where anyone on a set build could run over, grab a bag of drywall screws and just sign with the name of the show and whether the supplies were going to sets, props or "other." I miss being able to comparison shop among several area lumber yards to get a good best deal on wood for set construction, and knowing that some of them were willing to give our theater deep discounts because of its nonprofit status. Home Depot does stock one brand of most of the things I need. But finding someone who can point me to where that one thing is shelved - much less respond to my questions with anything more than a puzzled "huh?" - is an exercise in frustration. WalMart is seeking permission to build one of its superstores in our town. When that happens, I'll probably shop there, too - after they've run all the "competition" out of town. But that doesn't mean I have to like it - and I've already let my city council person know how I feel. -- Pat Kight Albany (Ore.) Civic Theater kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200405171912.i4HJCoWT024476 [at] tshield.longwood.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:12:50 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: > I'm considering PARnels for both replacing aging 6" fresnels, > as well as spec'ing them for a new 600-seater. The black box > only has a grid of about 14-16', and of course the mainstage > is higher, so any and all input from other users is welcome. I've noticed that full flood isn't nearly as wide as full flood on your standard 6" fresnel, but the output (even at 575) more than makes up for it. Never noticed any dark spots, either... FWIW, three of them at full flood will adequately light all the way across our stage (40' proscenium, 36' when you take into account legs positioned not-all-the-way-off) at a trim height of 18'. Four across would be better, but I don't have enough yet in my inventory to do that. Only complaint? I can't get my speed wrench on the yoke bolt when the instrument is pointed close to straight down. There's not enough clearance between the back of the lamp housing and the yoke, so I have to tilt it about 20 degrees in order to pan. Same holds for the PARs, of course... Paul Schreiner Technical Director, Longwood University Theatre 434.395.2250 ICQ# 2269284 ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:16:19 -0700 From: Jeff Forbes Subject: Re: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels >Jeff, have you used barndoors with the Parnels at PAC? Does ART use any >Parnels? No. haven't tried barn doors on them. ART just bought some of the new extra wide lenses for their S4 PARs, which actually do pretty well on their 15' grid. There's a loss of brightness, but in the show I'm doing right now, they never run above 65 per cent, so obviously they're still plenty bright. J -- Jeff A Forbes PMB 124 6820 SE Foster Rd Portland, OR 97206 (503) 888-5619 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <6728517EECE7D511981B00D0B78290310ACCF96E [at] az33exm27.corp.mot.com> From: Wood Chip-P26398 Subject: Re: Wal-Mart Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 12:29:37 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) My Dad and Mom owned and ran one of those "local" hardware stores where service and advice were as important as price. They got run out by a K-Mart and another big box down the street. They could not buy wholesale for what the boxes' retail prices were. Who lost out? The customers got lower prices, but who is getting individual help? Remember when "Service stations" actually gave service? -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Pat Kight I miss being able to run across the street during a construction party to ask guys with decades of hardware sales experience exactly which screw, nail or widget would work best for the application I had in mind. I miss being able to say, "I need something that looks like *this*, and can be bent like *that* - whaddya got?" and the sales guys being genuinely interested in what those crazy theater people were doing now. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <023201c43c45$67b2d640$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References:

Subject: Re: Wal-Mart Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:30:26 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Kight" > > I miss being able to run across the street during a construction party > to ask guys with decades of hardware sales experience exactly which > screw, nail or widget would work best for the application I had in mind. > I miss being able to say, "I need something that looks like *this*, and > can be bent like *that* - whaddya got?" and the sales guys being > genuinely interested in what those crazy theater people were doing now. > I miss having the kind of charge account where anyone on a set build > could run over, grab a bag of drywall screws and just sign with the name > of the show and whether the supplies were going to sets, props or > "other." I miss being able to comparison shop among several area lumber > yards to get a good best deal on wood for set construction, and knowing > that some of them were willing to give our theater deep discounts > because of its nonprofit status. > > Home Depot does stock one brand of most of the things I need. But > finding someone who can point me to where that one thing is shelved - > much less respond to my questions with anything more than a puzzled > "huh?" - is an exercise in frustration. > > WalMart is seeking permission to build one of its superstores in our > town. When that happens, I'll probably shop there, too - after they've > run all the "competition" out of town. But that doesn't mean I have to > like it - and I've already let my city council person know how I feel. > > -- > Pat Kight > Albany (Ore.) Civic Theater Ah, but I still have a couple of local guys like that, in addition to the big suppliers. Maybe a little more expensive, but if they've got it WHEN you need it, then that's worth a heck of a lot more!! Ynot ------------------------------ Message-ID: <022a01c43c45$23524260$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References:

Subject: Re: Revisiting Fresnels vs PARnels Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:28:31 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Ares" > > > Portland Actors Conservatory replaced all their old gear with Source > > 4s, including 24 Parnels, so I've used them quite a bit in show > > > Thanks Jeff. That's very helpful. Being familiar with that space, it gives > me a good perspective of what to expect. > > I'm considering PARnels for both replacing aging 6" fresnels, as well as > spec'ing them for a new 600-seater. The black box only has a grid of about > 14-16', and of course the mainstage is higher, so any and all input from > other users is welcome. > > Jeff, have you used barndoors with the Parnels at PAC? Does ART use any > Parnels? > > -- Jon Ares Our space is around 16-17 ft grid height, and we find them fine at that. Ynot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 23:38:52 +0400 From: Simon Shuker Subject: Re: Wal-Mart In-reply-to: Message-id: <0HXV00D7HIKSKP [at] apmail4.emirates.net.ae> X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Wood Chip-P26398 Remember when "Service stations" actually gave service? [Simon Shuker] They still do in the UAE - in fact self service is illegal ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <30.56d23b8c.2dda7001 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:44:01 EDT Subject: Re: Wal-Mart X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 36 In a message dated 5/17/04 12:39:55 PM, simonef [at] emirates.net.ae writes: << Remember when "Service stations" actually gave service? [Simon Shuker] They still do in the UAE - in fact self service is illegal >> as it still is in New Jersey and Oregon ( and possibly a few others? ) very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:45:42 +0100 (BST) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Wal-Mart In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: On Mon, 17 May 2004, Simon Shuker wrote: > [Simon Shuker] They still do in the UAE - in fact self service is illegal Same in Oregon (unless it changed recently...) Charlie ------------------------------ From: "Jason" References:

Subject: Re: Wal-Mart Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:15:00 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: I have found that the Ace Hardware around the corner is cheaper a lot of times than Home Depot and I have most of the time have a choice of what country the item is made in. Not much of a fan of "butter bolts". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Kight" > I shop at Home Depot, too. But then, I don't have much choice. After > they opened their big box store here, virtually all of the real hardware > and lumber stores around in our area went out of business - including > the one that was right across the street from our theater. > > I miss being able to run across the street during a construction party > to ask guys with decades of hardware sales experience exactly which > screw, nail or widget would work best for the application I had in mind. > I miss being able to say, "I need something that looks like *this*, and > can be bent like *that* - whaddya got?" and the sales guys being > genuinely interested in what those crazy theater people were doing now. > I miss having the kind of charge account where anyone on a set build > could run over, grab a bag of drywall screws and just sign with the name > of the show and whether the supplies were going to sets, props or > "other." I miss being able to comparison shop among several area lumber > yards to get a good best deal on wood for set construction, and knowing > that some of them were willing to give our theater deep discounts > because of its nonprofit status. > > Home Depot does stock one brand of most of the things I need. But > finding someone who can point me to where that one thing is shelved - > much less respond to my questions with anything more than a puzzled > "huh?" - is an exercise in frustration. > > WalMart is seeking permission to build one of its superstores in our > town. When that happens, I'll probably shop there, too - after they've > run all the "competition" out of town. But that doesn't mean I have to > like it - and I've already let my city council person know how I feel. > > -- > Pat Kight > Albany (Ore.) Civic Theater > kightp [at] peak.org > > > ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:14:54 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Wal-Mart At 12:10 PM -0700 5/17/04, Pat Kight wrote: > WalMart is seeking permission to build one of its superstores > in our town. When that happens, I'll probably shop there, too > - after they've run all the "competition" out of town. But that > doesn't mean I have to like it - and I've already let my city > council person know how I feel. HEAR-HEAR!!!! We've got exactly *one* real hardware store left in Lansing, and I rue the day when the currently-under-construction superWallyWorld thats' going up a half-mile form my house opens its doors. -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University Carpe Per Diem ------------------------------ Message-ID: <40A91E19.6080902 [at] peak.org> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:18:33 -0700 From: Pat Kight User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 Subject: Re: Wal-Mart References:

In-Reply-To: Charlie Richmond wrote: >On Mon, 17 May 2004, Simon Shuker wrote: > > > >>[Simon Shuker] They still do in the UAE - in fact self service is illegal >> >> > >Same in Oregon (unless it changed recently...) > Nope, we're still happily full-service and inclined (according to the polls) to keep it that way. -- Pat Kight Albany (Ore.) Civic Theater kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ Message-ID: <40A91E83.8090206 [at] peak.org> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:20:19 -0700 From: Pat Kight User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.3.1) Gecko/20030425 Subject: Re: Wal-Mart References:

In-Reply-To: Jason wrote: >I have found that the Ace Hardware around the corner is cheaper a lot of >times than Home Depot and I have most of the time have a choice of what >country the item is made in. Not much of a fan of "butter bolts". > Ace was among the victims of Home Depot here. They shut down within a year after the big box store opened. -- Pat Kight kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:31:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... From: Herrick In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <343BC39E-A841-11D8-BD62-0003934521EC [at] hglightingdesign.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Whenever you all want just come on out. I'll be there for 2 shows this summer. The beach is 1200' from the loading door! -h On Monday, May 17, 2004, at 13:04 America/New_York, Rigger wrote: > For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending > your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: > http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > (OFF-TOPIC ALERT! THOSE WITH TIGHT-ASSES DELETE NOW!) > > > At 12:40 PM -0400 5/17/04, Bsapsis [at] aol.com wrote: > >>> Your just looking for any excuse to get back on that bike. >>> I thought you would have had enough for a while. >> >> ??????????????Enough?????????????? What is the meaning >> of this word enough???? > > > I think it's a modifier that people mistakenly think also applies to > motorcycling. (the fools...) > > FWIW, I spent yesterday swapping engines in my old GoldWing. Should be > back on two wheels tomorrow, for the first time since the Old Girl's > tranny grenaded last August. Oh, the DTs were fierce.... > > -- > Dave Vick, IATSE #274 > Head Electrician, > The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University > > > Carpe Per Diem > > Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <3f.2bd9a8ca.2dda7c00 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:35:12 EDT Subject: Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 36 In a message dated 5/17/04 1:32:52 PM, Herrick [at] hglightingdesign.com writes: << Whenever you all want just come on out. I'll be there for 2 shows this summer. The beach is 1200' from the loading door! -h >> yes, , and what's the big deal about that ? ( say's I from Florida ) I once did a tour show in Belize, Central America where the stage was SO CLOSE to the beach , you couldn't use the stage door at high tide, , very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <19e.24575572.2dda7cc2 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:38:26 EDT Subject: Re: Wal-Mart X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 36 In a message dated 5/17/04 1:15:34 PM, rigger [at] tds.net writes: << HEAR-HEAR!!!! We've got exactly *one* real hardware store left in Lansing, and I rue the day when the currently-under-construction superWallyWorld thats' going up a half-mile form my house opens its doors. -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University >> what's nice about being in a port city like Tampa is you have all of these wonderful old hardware stores with marine hardware ( great stuff ) tools, , , rope and net suppliers, nut and bolt warehouses, rigging warehouses and suppliers, etc etc. Always fun to find the thing you need with a 20 ( sometimes 30 ) year old price tag on it ! very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida www.iaeginc.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Storms, Randy" Subject: Re: Wal-Mart Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 13:49:13 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) I was gonna stay out o' this, but seeing as it's a "thing" now... When the first supermarkets appeared, there was a great hue and cry: "But what about the mom-and-pop butcher shop, bakery, green grocer, fish market, (etc., etc.)-- they'll be driven under!!" They were right, of course, for all practical purposes those specialized businesses have been entirely replaced by supermarkets. The same thing was true of the big retail store chains like Wal-mart, K-Mart, or (in the Pacific Northwest) Fred Meyer. "Woe is us!" they cried, "My 900 sq. ft. shoe store can never compete!" They were right too, of course - they *couldn't* compete. It's a natural evolution -- If I can purchase the same product cheaper and more conveniently at a mass-merchandiser, I probably will. And - until you are willing to make a special trip downtown to the butcher shop every week for your weekly meat-related needs, you can probably hop off the anti-Wal Mart soap box. (Aisle 3!) As Meredith Wilson pointed out in The Music Man, "Who's gonna patronize a little bitty two-by-four kinda store anymore?" Ducking and Running, -- r. Randy Storms rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:51:16 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Wal-Mart At 4:38 PM -0400 5/17/04, IAEG [at] aol.com wrote: > what's nice about being in a port city like Tampa is you > have all of these wonderful old hardware stores with marine > hardware ( great stuff ) tools, , , Speaking of chandleries, I pass a West Marine on the way to work every day... It's a wonder I have any money left at all. -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University Carpe Per Diem ------------------------------ Message-ID: <02c301c43c51$06e6e7f0$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Wal-Mart Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 21:53:37 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Storms, Randy" > > I was gonna stay out o' this, but seeing as it's a "thing" now... > > When the first supermarkets appeared, there was a great hue and cry: > "But what about the mom-and-pop butcher shop, bakery, green grocer, fish > market, (etc., etc.)-- they'll be driven under!!" > > They were right, of course, for all practical purposes those specialized > businesses have been entirely replaced by supermarkets. > > The same thing was true of the big retail store chains like Wal-mart, > K-Mart, or (in the Pacific Northwest) Fred Meyer. "Woe is us!" they cried, > "My 900 sq. ft. shoe store can never compete!" They were right too, of > course - they *couldn't* compete. > > It's a natural evolution -- If I can purchase the same product cheaper and > more conveniently at a mass-merchandiser, I probably will. And - until you > are willing to make a special trip downtown to the butcher shop every week > for your weekly meat-related needs, you can probably hop off the anti-Wal > Mart soap box. (Aisle 3!) > > As Meredith Wilson pointed out in The Music Man, "Who's gonna patronize a > little bitty two-by-four kinda store anymore?" > > Ducking and Running, > -- r. > > Randy Storms I'd just ask WHO is responsible for the success (whatever) of these retail chains? With a cynically on-the-fence hat on, it HAS to be the consumers, of course. The big boys are only providing what the customers (in the general sense) want - the "pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap" syndrome. And to be honest, anyone who thinks that things will ever change is flying with the cuckoos in dry ice! ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:55:44 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Wal-Mart At 1:49 PM -0700 5/17/04, Storms, Randy wrote: > And - until you are willing to make a special trip downtown > to the butcher shop every week for your weekly meat-related > needs, you can probably hop off the anti-WalMart soap box. I gladly make those trips to the specialty shops, and will continue to do so, as it'll be a cold day in Hell before I step inside a Walmart. Firmly planted on this-here soapbox, Me -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University Carpe Per Diem ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1ec.20982c1a.2dda80d4 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:55:48 EDT Subject: Re: Wal-Mart X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 36 In a message dated 5/17/04 1:54:15 PM, deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes: << flying with the cuckoos in dry ice! >> now there is an expression I have never heard before,, is that something regional ? very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida www.iaeginc.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20040517105918.0251f4a8 [at] mail.ericminton.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.0.6 Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:05:49 -1000 From: Eric Minton Subject: Computer Clock Program Aloha Anyone have a recommendation for a computer program that has function that help a stage manager? Currently I use "Sidekick" but It doesn't run under XP. Ti Has a nice World Time zone display and other information I will miss So Intermission timers or more would be nice. Mahalo Eric ------------------------------ Message-ID: <02d101c43c52$e1778db0$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Wal-Mart Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:06:53 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 ----- Original Message ----- From: > > In a message dated 5/17/04 1:54:15 PM, deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes: > > << flying with the cuckoos in dry ice! >> > > > now there is an expression I have never heard before,, is that something > regional ? > > very best, > > Keith Arsenault Think of what dry ice could look like.... Clouds, perchance? Clouds, & cuckoos... Sound any more like a better known expression? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 18:24:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Wal-Mart From: Herrick In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) On Monday, May 17, 2004, at 16:53 America/New_York, Tony Deeming wrote: > Or perhaps > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Storms, Randy" wrote or who the heck knows wrote... but I'll write: What I find most depressing is that Times Sq. and 5th avenue only have stores that I can find in any mall anywhere. I've been trying to buy some very nice sunglasses for a week now and I can't find ones i like. Because 90% of the good quality sunglasses sold in NYC are sold at Sunglass Hut and they only carry a limited line. Gone are the days of finding unique products in nooks and crannies around town. > He says as he goes to work at Madame Tussauds on 42nd st. (Itself a mass market copy of a big museum somewhere else)(and surfs the web in Starbux) Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003c01c43c62$04128280$18ecbed0 [at] hppav> From: "Joe Meils" References:

Subject: Re: Wal-Mart Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 17:55:13 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 Reminds me of the old Monty Python sketch: Bruce #1: It's hot enough in here to boil a monkey's bum!" Bruce #2: That's a strange expression, Bruce! Bruce #1: I heard the Primeminister use it, "It's hot enough to boil a monkey's bum in here, Your Magesty!" And she smiled quietly to herself... > > > > << flying with the cuckoos in dry ice! >> > > > > > > now there is an expression I have never heard before,, is that something > > regional ? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <004601c43c61$e6905750$6501a8c0 [at] cz1lbfinkbrlun> From: "Chad Croteau" Subject: Parnel Barn Doors Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 18:54:24 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 Hi Jon. The university I attend just bought 18 Parnels for their new studio theatre. We've used them several times with the optional barn doors and couldn't be happier. The cuts are just the same as with an old-fashioned fresnel. Well worth the investment. Chad >I'd like to hear from folks who've been using them with, or in replacement >of, fresnels. Barndooring was a question raised a few times - what's the >verdict on that? (Clean cuts, or not?) Has the alleged 'dark spot' in the >middle of the spot/flood range been dealt with? ------------------------------ Subject: Re: dance floor (long-ish) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:58:01 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Michael Finney" Ohhhh, it's so nice to have the list back! Now could somebody get me a = day off to catch up? I've been in the middle of dealing with both short term and long term = dance floors for a couple of clients for the last couple of months, so I = feel pretty safe in sharing my favourite low cost solution. These are = currently laid in several studios in which my fianc=E9 teaches, so you = can imagine how careful I was to find something that was comfortable and = functional for her. All of her floors are laid over concrete. The subfloor consists of 2x4 stringers laid on foam or rubber high = density vibration isolation material. The foam/rubber is glued to the = 2x4's as 6" long pieces (full width of the board), spaced 2' on-center. = I prefer 3/4" to 1" sorbothane, but that's the more expensive option. = 1/2" to 3/4" 50A durometer silicone rubber block works fine, as does = 45A-55A durometer hi-grade neoprene. For limited life installations (2 = years or less), I've even doubled up "cushion-step" vinyl flooring or = used high density (commercial) carpet pad. The 2x4 and cushioning = blocks are laid 2' on-center, with the wide dimension horizontal, and = the foam on the concrete subfloor. NOTE: the stringers are *not* = fastened to the floor beneath. =20 I prefer to lay the stringers along the short dimension of the room, but = that's just my own quirk. I recommend joining the stringers end to end = with Scotch fasteners on the side to make them easier to deal with when = you deck the subfloor. Stagger any joints between adjacent stringers by = at least 4', and maintain a minimum of 1/2" around the perimeter of the = room to give the floor room to expand and contract with temperature and = humidity (cap the gap with the baseboard). Trust me on that...I have a = couple of funny stories about friends who had floors laid tight to the = walls. It's an easy fix...after the giant hump forms in the middle of = the room....and the facility maintenance boys freak out. After the subfloor is down (and it's really easy to get an "assembly = line" of people working on the whole "glue the pad to the wood" = process), it's a simple matter of decking it. This is the point at = which your budget will probably determine how you proceed. The simplest = and cheapest solution is frequently 3/4" AC *void free* plywood laid = with the A side up. (I recommend staggering your sheets and fastening = the ply to the stringers deck crews - be careful to *not* screw all the = way through the stringers!). Ideally you should fill any screw holes = and "butter" the seams with a solid patching compound. Bondo (mixed = fairly soft) works great. All you're really trying to do is minimize = the dimples in the dance floor that you lay over the plywood. My favourite deck was 3/4" tongue and groove AC ply laid over the = stringers, with 1/2" birch finish ply laid over that (screw holes and = seams filled). It was almost a shame to lay the dance floor over it! Other versions have included: 1) 3/4" chipboard (aligned fiber strand preferred) laid on the stringers = with 1/2" birch finish ply or 1/2" AC void free on top. Finished with = dance floor. 2) 3/4" chipboard (aligned fiber strand preferred) with 1/4" MDF on top. = Finished with dance floor (which we had to completely glue down, as it = slid around on the raw MDF). 3) 3/4" AC ply with wide plank Pergo laid on top. That one didn't hold = up to taps well, but the modern dancers *loved* it. We did a second = variation of this one with wide plank bamboo that was beautiful, but I = don't know how available that material is in the US. The key to this = was to buy the Pergo or bamboo *unfinished*, and then just hit it with a = "sanding sealer". We actually used water borne polyurethane cut 50/50. = Too much of a finish tends to make the floor a little slick. Again, I = have horror stories of people who got stuck with a "gym floor" finish. I think there are probably almost as many dance floor designs as there = are people who've ever laid one, but these have worked pretty well for = me...not as springy as a true "basket weave" sprung floor, but decent. = And (to be honest) they've frequently been a good compromise in = "springiness" between the ballet folks, the modern dancers, and = everybody else using the floor. Hope this rambling helps some...I may have CAD plans (at least concept = sketches, anyway) at the office if you want them. =20 Boy, it's *really* good to have the list to play with again! =20 Michael Finney Thinkwell Design & Production mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com =20 http://www.thinkwelldesign.com =20 ------------------------------ X-Mailer: EMUmail 5.1 From: bernard [at] hartford.edu Subject: Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:02:26 EST Message-Id: <01072910978584 [at] uhamailb.hartford.edu> On Mon, 17 May 2004 16:31:41 -0400 Herrick wrote: > > Whenever you all want just come on out. I'll be there for 2 shows this > summer. > > The beach is 1200' from the loading door! > Herrick: Which shows are you desiging there? I'm planning a trip to see friends/collegues and it would be great to be able to put a face on the name. Michael Bernard Technical Director The Hartt School The University of Hartford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:15:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... From: Herrick In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <2B9BDFF5-A871-11D8-BD62-0003934521EC [at] hglightingdesign.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) Well since you asked: Glass Menagerie opens june 17th so I'm there form about the 8th thru 17th Then Sideshow opens: July 21st so I'm there about the 10th thru the 21th or so. I can't offer room as I think I house with "staff" but I can offer brews and cape-codders. E-mail privately if any of you think you will be near the elbow. PS for all you "massholes" I heard a song performed last night at a concert I did called "Entering Marion" (http://www.johnforster.com/ENT_MAR.html) John Forster wrote it and he played piano with the incomparable William Michaels performing it. I had never heard it before and there it was in a "100 years of Broadway concert" (http://www.broadwayworld.com/viewcolumn.cfm?colid=873) Having lived in Mass most of my life this was the first time I heard it and it slayed me. :) -H On Monday, May 17, 2004, at 21:02 America/New_York, bernard [at] hartford.edu wrote: > For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending > your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: > http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ > --------------------------------------------------- > > > On Mon, 17 May 2004 16:31:41 -0400 Herrick wrote: >> >> Whenever you all want just come on out. I'll be there for 2 shows this >> summer. >> >> The beach is 1200' from the loading door! >> > > Herrick: > > Which shows are you desiging there? I'm planning a trip to see > friends/collegues > and it would be great to be able to put a face on the name. > > Michael Bernard > Technical Director > The Hartt School > The University of Hartford > > > > Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1ec.209dc74b.2ddacda2 [at] aol.com> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:23:30 EDT Subject: Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Mac sub 7 In a message dated 5/17/04 10:18:59 PM, Herrick [at] hglightingdesign.com writes: << PS for all you "massholes" I heard a song performed last night at a concert I did called "Entering Marion" >> What a great song. Heard it a long time ago. First time i drove anywhere near Marion I HAD to drive over past the sign. Then, some time later, while driving through PA, I came upon a town called Sharon..... Ah, the mind boggles at the possibilities. Be well Bill S. Sapsis Rigging, Inc. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax We stand behind, and under, our work. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:37:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Small theatre in Cape Cod... From: Herrick In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <4D898C72-A874-11D8-BD62-0003934521EC [at] hglightingdesign.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) For those of you technically minded (yeah right) you can find "Entering Marion" on Itunes. I love instant gratification! -H On Monday, May 17, 2004, at 22:23 America/New_York, Bsapsis [at] aol.com wrote: > > > What a great song. Heard it a long time ago. First time i drove > anywhere > near Marion I HAD to drive over past the sign. > Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:39:13 EDT Subject: Re: OSHA and Students X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5027 Jon Ares replied: >Who is BOLI? > >Bureau Of Labor & Industry (Industries?) Is this a state office in your area? I am aware that at the Federal level there is a Department of Labor. Are these entities issuing safety regulations in addition to OSHA? One of the issues we have already is the conflicting requirements of different agencies and different "laws" sometimes mandating diametrical opposites. A positive trend is where OSHA incorporates standards developed through ANSI and thus gives them the force of law. A good example is in the 29 Code of Federal Regulations PART 1926.453 AERIAL LIFTS which states in part: (a) General Requirements (1) aerial lifts shall conform with the applicable requirements of ANSI A92.2-1969. This ANSI standard was written by the Scaffold Industry Association and includes details for aerial lift use and training. As ESTA leads the way in writing ANSI standards specific to the Entertainment Industry, maybe we will eventually see OSHA adoption of those standards as well. Steve Vanciel Orlando, FL ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200405180302.i4I32PM19150 [at] mail017.syd.optusnet.com.au> X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.411 (Entity 5.404) From: mike.stagelist [at] optusnet.com.au Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:02:25 +1000 Subject: Re: Computer Clock Program Eric, are you just looking for a timer program ?, (ie, for intermission ?) This would be very simple to create. If it is, Ill see what i can do. Kind Regards Mike Marriott > Eric Minton wrote: > > For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending > your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: > http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ > --------------------------------------------------- > > > Aloha > > Anyone have a recommendation for a computer program that has function > that > help a stage manager? > Currently I use "Sidekick" but It doesn't run under XP. Ti Has a nice > World > Time zone display and other information I will miss So Intermission > timers > or more would be nice. > > Mahalo > Eric > ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <78.574a216a.2ddae546 [at] aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 00:04:22 EDT Subject: Re: Wal-Mart X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 I liked Wal-Mart until I saw what it did to the economy where my parents live. Not good. Not at all good. When you have no local choice of pharmacy and have to travel 60 miles one way to find a choice, it's not good for the people who live there. In the small town where I grew up there were two pharmacies. One night we were in store A when the owner of store B came over to borrow some of a specific prescription drug he'd run out of. The owner of store A told my dad it was good for both businesses for them to help each other out. Brewed Awakenings, a coffee shop owned by a 17 year old and her mom, is two doors down from Starbucks in Appleton, they borrow/lend things back and forth too. It's easy for me to support the "mom and pop" hardware places here. Northside True Value in Appleton, WI has every oddity you could imagine... and even stocks Rosco Flamex! :) Carsten's Ace Hardware in Kaukauna, WI has a special place in my heart. Not many stores will be a site for a field-trip for a dozen middle school students on a scavenger hunt. (What kinds of adhesive can you use to re attach the sole of a shoe... what do they cost? You're painting a 4x12 flat... which brand of white flat latex paint is cheapest? How many gallons would you need to paint 8 of those flats? Which kind of respirator should you use in a scene shop?) His kids are involved with my drama productions and he's been a VERY generous sponsor of materials. Yes, sometimes it costs a bit more, but if you do get the wrong thing, you can return it without a hassle PLUS the odds of getting the wrong thing are lesser because the staff have brains. They are worth their weight in gold for saving my time which in the long run saves me money. Wal-mart it is the epitomy of capitalism taken to the Nth degree. I recall learning about another monopolistic department store - "GUM" in Moscow - something about there being only one color of boot available (Henry Ford Model T black) and one style (mid-calf felt-lined rubber with a zipper),not in enough sizes to fit everyone, nor in enough quantity to cloth everyone, nor did they work very well at keeping feet warm. Something about no motivation for the manufacturer to improve quality. Something about competition making both competitors better. Something that taught me having at least TWO stores in town that sell the same/similar products is a VERY good thing for the consumer. And I'd seen that in action as a child in Bob's Walgreens and the Rexall across the street. When I became a consultant with Mary Kay, I became a small business owner and started to see things from a that perspective. You can buy cheaply produced cosmetics at Wally World and toss them out when they don't work for you OR you can come to me and for no extra charge, get the benefit of my years of experience. I'll show you how to use it, tell you when NOT to use it, let you know if you don't need it in the first place, and if it doesn't work the way you want, I back it up with my company's 100% satisfaction guarantee. I have things that work great for stage, film, or street... but not everything works equally well in all places. I know the field well enough that if you need something I don't carry, I'll tell you exactly how/where to get it and will show you how to use it at no cost. I'll even come to your school and clean out the makeup that should have been tossed in the Regan era, teach your students how to use makeup correctly (safely!) and make certain you have what you need for your show - no extra cost. It's that SERVICE along with a superior product that makes for a great business. Plus my products are made in Dallas, TX in a factory I've personally been in several times and can show you photos of. And the things I don't sell, usually get from companies based right here in Wisconsin. I prefer to shop where I know I'm helping others stay in business. Where I get the best VALUE for my dollar. That's not always the lowest price. Kristi Herrick - Try the local drug store for your sunglasses. I got my Polarized ones there. Motorcycle and boating shops have great ones too! ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001e01c43c9a$4385f860$40ecbed0 [at] hppav> From: "Joe Meils" References: Subject: Re: Wal-Mart Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 00:37:52 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 The squeezing out of all other competition is exactly my concern. When a giant retailer comes in, they shut out all other retailers. With their purchasing power, they can get price breaks in bulk that the "Mom & Pops" can't hope to get. Result? A limited stock of items, and no alternatives. Your comparison to the failed soviet system is apt. They had centralized manufacturing, and now we're heading toward doing the same in retailing. Oh, and I just heard earlier today on the local news from Little Rock, that Wal-Mart is opening a new, superstore right across the street from their old Wal-Mart store, which they will be closing down. Apparently, this is happening all over the country. The only problem is, no one needs an empty Wal-Mart building. So, they sit empty, become centers for drug deals and other crimes. A blight on the community. Joe > > Wal-mart it is the epitomy of capitalism taken to the Nth degree. I recall > learning about another monopolistic department store - "GUM" in Moscow - > something about there being only one color of boot available (Henry Ford Model T > black) and one style (mid-calf felt-lined rubber with a zipper),not in enough > sizes to fit everyone, nor in enough quantity to cloth everyone, nor did they work > very well at keeping feet warm. Something about no motivation for the > manufacturer to improve quality. Something about competition making both competitors > better. ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #10 ****************************