Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.1.8 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #22 Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 03:00:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #22 1. Re: Moving light consoles? by "Jeff Mabray" 2. Resistance Dimmers by LITETROL [at] aol.com 3. Re: budgets by Kevin Lee Allen 4. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by Kevin Lee Allen 5. Re: Resistance Dimmers by IAEG [at] aol.com 6. Re: Looking Backwards by "Paul Guncheon" 7. Re: Moving light consoles? by "Scott C. Parker" 8. food for thought by b Ricie 9. Re: Resistance Dimmers by "Scott C. Parker" 10. Even attempted maintenance pays by "Scott C. Parker" 11. Discount for BLMC & BSMC via USITTNY by "Scott C. Parker" 12. by Michael Powers 13. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. by Michael Powers 14. Automation Grenade ... careful ... by Brendan Quigley 15. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by CB 16. Re: Moving light Consoles by CB 17. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by CB 18. Microvision disks? by Herrick 19. Re: Microvision disks? by seanrmc [at] earthlink.net 20. Re: Microvision disks? by "Michael Eddy" 21. Counterweight Rigging by "Delbert Hall" 22. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by "Music Ministry" 23. Re: Prepare for an aneurism... by "Jack E. Wilkinson" 24. Re: Microvision disks? by "Sarah Clausen" 25. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by "Joe Meils" 26. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by Steeve Vajk 27. Re: Counterweight Rigging by Rigger 28. Re: Counterweight Rigging by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 29. Re: Counterweight Rigging by Michael Heinicke 30. Re: Counterweight Rigging by "Delbert Hall" 31. Re: Counterweight Rigging by Rigger 32. Re: Counterweight Rigging by Rigger 33. Re: Counterweight Rigging by Rigger 34. Re: Counterweight Rigging by Rigger 35. Re: Counterweight Rigging by "Jason" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff Mabray" Subject: Re: Moving light consoles? Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 06:10:27 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Something that I haven't heard anyone mention is to try to upgrade your existing express to Emphasis. I believe that it might be in your price range. Jeff Mabray -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Scott C. Parker Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:21 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Moving light consoles? For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- Greetings. I've just come into about 4 grand and am looking for a basic moving light console. We own 3 technobeams iris units and 4 ellipscan moving mirror heads. I'm assuming we'll get more lights in the future. Our current board is the Express 48/96 and we've been able to do basic programing so far. Any recommendations would be much appreciated. Thanks, Scott Scott C. Parker Production Designer/Technical Director High School Tech Production Web Site hstech~AT~hstech.org High Schoolers: come visit the HS Tech Web Site... http://www.hstech.org Our Mission: To assist High School Technical Theater students in their desire to learn about, create, and execute theatrical productions. ------------------------------ From: LITETROL [at] aol.com Message-ID: <15.2a335820.2de9d9f5 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 08:20:05 EDT Subject: Resistance Dimmers This past week, we were asked to look at a 1937 "Frank Adams" dimmer board, with Ward Leonard resistance plates. Indeed, it was in remarkably good shape, and the client called because a small fan, installed in the mid-1950's, had begun to have bearing noise. The rest of the rack worked perfectly, just a failure of a non-factory fan. Amazing....... steve short steve [at] litetrol.com 1 800 548 3876 (LITETRO) fax 516 681 7288 lite-trol service company, inc. 485 w. john street Hicksville NY 11801 ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Kevin Lee Allen Subject: Re: budgets Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 08:50:04 -0400 With a zero budget, if you need a bowl you're happy to have any bowl. With a sizable budget, that bowl now has to be the absolutely RIGHT=20 bowl. On May 28, 2004, at 10:32 PM, StevevETTrn [at] aol.com wrote: > I'm convinced that there is NO perfect venue nor production scenario. > But, that very fact is what engenders creativity: finding a way to = make > theatre happen with what ever the given resources may be. > > ----- Kevin Lee Allen Production Designer http://www.klad.com 973.744.6352.voice 201.280.3841.cell klad [at] klad.com =F0 ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: <6A0FA3CB-B16F-11D8-A32C-003065D2C502 [at] klad.com> From: Kevin Lee Allen Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 08:55:08 -0400 thanks, I was trying to figure out how to respond to that. On a similar note, I do what I do to make a living and it can (from=20 time to time), arguably be called art. In my (too infrequent) spare=20 time, I paint. The paintings can (arguably) be called art. I sell what I can of both. Like a theatre company sneaking in a Shakespeare now and again when the=20= audience really likes Simon. On May 28, 2004, at 10:41 PM, Rigger wrote: > At 10:31 PM -0400 5/28/04, StevevETTrn [at] aol.com wrote: > >> At what point do we become concerned about behavioral >> mutations that result from overexposure? > > You sound like my parents, the day I bought my first Guess Who 45 in=20= > 3rd grade... > > That, BTW, is not a good thing to sound like. ----- Kevin Lee Allen Production Designer http://www.klad.com 973.744.6352.voice 201.280.3841.cell klad [at] klad.com =F0 ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1cc.2227c775.2de9e8a7 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 09:22:47 EDT Subject: Re: Resistance Dimmers In a message dated 5/29/04 5:24:58 AM, LITETROL [at] aol.com writes: << This past week, we were asked to look at a 1937 "Frank Adams" dimmer board, with Ward Leonard resistance plates. Indeed, it was in remarkably good shape, and the client called because a small fan, installed in the mid-1950's, had begun to have bearing noise. The rest of the rack worked perfectly, just a failure of a non-factory fan. Amazing....... >> ahhhh, , , a situation where the phrase " they sure don't make them the way they used to " could not be more correct very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002b01c44581$bf370bd0$2a02a8c0 [at] laptop> From: "Paul Guncheon" References: Subject: Re: Looking Backwards Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 03:35:02 -1000 <> So true. Spoken as one who went through the Epcot Center/Magic Kingdom rides looking backwards with a flashlight. Got stuck in the "Pirates of the Caribean" "Town" section of the ride for about 20 minutes. However that pales in comparison to the 45 minutes in "It's a Small World" puppet land when I was a youth. I go to Wal-mart when I need to get a wal. Laters, Paul "I like listening to records at night," said Tom disconsolately. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.2.20040529100616.03ac0080 [at] mail.hstech.org> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:11:22 -0400 From: "Scott C. Parker" Subject: Re: Moving light consoles? In-Reply-To: References:

I took a look at the Emphasis at USITT Long Beach and it did peak my interest. Pricing I received was just under 4K for the 2D version and just under 6K for the 3D version. Both come with WYSIWYG. Has anyone on the list done this upgrade? Comments? Thanks, Scott At 07:10 AM 5/29/2004, you wrote: >Something that I haven't heard anyone mention is to try to upgrade your >existing express to Emphasis. I believe that it might be in your price >range. > >Jeff Mabray Scott C. Parker Production Designer/Technical Director High School Tech Production Web Site hstech~AT~hstech.org High Schoolers: come visit the HS Tech Web Site... http://www.hstech.org Our Mission: To assist High School Technical Theater students in their desire to learn about, create, and execute theatrical productions. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20040529141523.7321.qmail [at] web50607.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 07:15:23 -0700 (PDT) From: b Ricie Subject: food for thought In-Reply-To: Then Joe wrote: > Vote with your money... it's the only voice anyone >listens to >anymore. >Exactly the point. Take the "Vote" one step further. CALL the company and tell them why you will not be spending your hard earned dollars in their store. Hitting them in the pocket will always hurt, Being vocal about it will make sure they notice it. If enough people call then the giant will understand the drop in sales is due to their business practices rather than a turn in the economy. ===== Brian Rice b_ricie [at] yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.2.20040529101704.03cfaec0 [at] mail.hstech.org> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:18:28 -0400 From: "Scott C. Parker" Subject: Re: Resistance Dimmers In-Reply-To: References: Hey Steve, Any possibility of getting a few pictures? I'd like to start an equipment history page of some sort on my High School Production site. www.hstech.org. Thanks, Scott At 08:20 AM 5/29/2004, you wrote: >1937 "Frank Adams" dimmer board, with Ward Leonard resistance plates. Scott C. Parker Production Designer/Technical Director High School Tech Production Web Site hstech~AT~hstech.org High Schoolers: come visit the HS Tech Web Site... http://www.hstech.org Our Mission: To assist High School Technical Theater students in their desire to learn about, create, and execute theatrical productions. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.2.20040529101927.02243ec0 [at] mail.hstech.org> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:35:10 -0400 From: "Scott C. Parker" Subject: Even attempted maintenance pays In-Reply-To: References:

Just wanted to share. I'm on the panel to distribute equipment via a grant from AOL and the Dave Matthews band to refurbish performing arts facilities for the Dept. of Ed. here in NY. During our site visits, we've seen all sorts of interesting solutions to the severe lack of funding for the arts. One of our criteria for granting requests (we received 140 applications for around 25 grants) is: will the school be able to maintain the equipment? One school in particular was requesting replacement drapes. They had drapes that were 40-50 years old. Yes, some were ripped. Most had fallen bottom hems. Not one safety pin to be seen and no evidence of any sewing needle used. Another school has very old Century strip lights. The school couldn't find the long neck par lamps needed. The only lamps they found to fit were, are you ready? Music stand light bulbs! They fit because they are long and thin. Yes, they found a solution. But here's the kicker. One of the faculty had suggested to the custodian that they get socket extenders and then use regular flood lamps. This would have worked perfectly to solve the problem. The custodian ignored the suggestion. Now, who was listed as the person who would maintain the new equipment? Yup, the custodian. So many people say they simply "can't" work with what they have and it all needs to be replaced. During my visits, I hope to make up a list of innovative solutions thought up by civilians. If anyone has stories, I'd like to here them... Scott >. Scott C. Parker Production Designer/Technical Director High School Tech Production Web Site hstech~AT~hstech.org High Schoolers: come visit the HS Tech Web Site... http://www.hstech.org Our Mission: To assist High School Technical Theater students in their desire to learn about, create, and execute theatrical productions. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.2.20040529103713.03732ec0 [at] mail.hstech.org> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 10:41:41 -0400 From: "Scott C. Parker" Subject: Discount for BLMC & BSMC via USITTNY In-Reply-To: References:

The NY Area Section of USITT has arranged a discount for its members to the Broadway Lighting & Sound Master Classes. If you're interesting in finding out more, or joining the NY Area Section, please contact me at scott [at] usittny.org. For more info about the classes, visit www.blmc.net. Scott Scott C. Parker Vice Chair, NYC/Metro Section of The United States Institute of Theatre Technology www.usittny.org 718-757-6661 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 11:57:12 -0400 From: Michael Powers Message-id: <1085846232.40b8b2d8287ae [at] mail-www3.oit.umass.edu> "Jason McDaniel" wrote: << ..... My thesis topic is the evaluation of trap lift systems. This includes all the mechanization, the elevator/lift and trap covering methods. .... >> Jason, I've done a number of elevator units over the years. Some have been mounted in the trap room and some have been incorporated into set units above the stage. I prefer the drop and slide type of trap lid (perfected IMHO by Loren Schriber) displayed in the tech expo at Pittsburgh in 1997 or '99, I forget which. By chance alone all the units I have designed demanded precise control of the speed from rather slow to fairly fast, unlike Loren's which needed a very high speed for the Young Joe to Old Joe transformation in Damn Yankees. As a result I have used inverter controlled motors and roller chain drives rather than fluid power for the elevator unit, but pneumatics for the trap controls. I used Lorens design for the PLC controls and general design. The main difference in engineering was to switch to a straight in-line actuator, instead of a 90 degree swing type, to raise and lower the trap door frame. I have some photos stored at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stagerats/ click on Photos and then on Little Shop .... where we had the dentists chair rise up through the stage floor for that scene and then drop down with the dentist's body so the next scene could start immediately. I have used basicly the same design for Christmas past in Christmas Carol, and Frankinferter's (spelling??) first entrance in Rocky horror. I used the same PLC control and drop and slide trap for the tombstone in Christmas Carol. However we used a motor driven cable drive to telescope a 7'-0" tombstone 21' above the trap floor to 9' above the stage level. For another version of Little Shop at the Arkansas Rep in 1966, I designed a lift unit that had an 8x8 section of the stage floor hinge up and back so that the underside of the trap became the back wall of the dentist's ofice and an 8x8 floor section with the chair rose to fill the hole. If this is the type of thing you're looking for, let me know and I'll be happy to give you whatever information I can. Michael Michael Powers, Technical Director UMass Theatre Department 112 FAC West 151 Presidents Drive, Ofc.2 Amherst, Ma. 01003-9331 413-545-6821 voice 413-577-0025 fax mfpowers [at] theater.umass.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 12:00:05 -0400 From: Michael Powers Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. Message-id: <1085846405.40b8b38526cb5 [at] mail-www3.oit.umass.edu> Rigger writes: << .... Sorry, Michael Powers... I don't care what you and your lovely wife or anyone else think. WalMart is Evil and must die.>> Dave, Don't get me wrong, I don't think Wal-Mart is the champion of "Truth, Justice and the American Way", I leave that up to the guy in the red and blue suit. On the other hand I don't think it is "The Great Satin" either. The real point of my posts is, if one wants to point out and discuss the bad points of an entity, whether it is Wal-Mart, MicroSoft or Frank Woods, do it with accurate, verifiable facts and the truth. Not hearsay, rumor or knee jerk reaction to inflammatory statements. And Yes, Lane change, new subject, I do miss Frank's posts. I hope he finds his way back. Michael Michael Powers, Technical Director UMass Theatre Department 112 FAC West 151 Presidents Drive, Ofc.2 Amherst, Ma. 01003-9331 413-545-6821 voice 413-577-0025 fax mfpowers [at] theater.umass.edu ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <72719639-B18A-11D8-8FA5-003065555B26 [at] earthlink.net> From: Brendan Quigley Subject: Automation Grenade ... careful ... Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 11:08:39 -0500 mornin' all ... so here's a grenade for the collective wisdom of the list. And FWIW, I'm only a simple country Vari*Lite guy working on a small skit here in the big city ... so don't hold any of this against me!! In fact, an automation carpenter (the lovely and talented Brook Carlson) sent this to me ... I'm sure others have seen it, but I'm interested in what discussions will come from this. http://www.iatselocalone.org/safety/essay.html If you need me, I'll be working on my tunnel out of the Gershwin ... we're going out under Barrack 7 ... Kind Regards, Brendan C. Quigley Vari*Lite Technician/Electrician WICKED - A New Broadway Musical ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20040529121932.01687ff8 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 12:19:32 -0600 From: CB Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) >When are musicians going to become artists and say to >Wal-Mart and others, "this is my art, I won't change it to >suit you, Prolly as soon as Clear Channel and Mall-Wart start playing and seling art instead just selling what the winner of some contest or group of Chosen TV Faces puts together. There is a reason that there are so many track acts around nowadays, Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20040529124423.01687ff8 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 12:44:23 -0600 From: CB Subject: Re: Moving light Consoles >where a locked down sound computer >developed problems during the preshow check OK, this one goes out to all of you guys that are missing Frank so much right now: The problem with the above situation isn't related to the words "locked down" its related to the words "sound computer". Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20040529125642.01687ff8 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 12:56:42 -0600 From: CB Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) >That's not censorship, It's my right to dictate the image of my store. I'm >not preventing anyone from recording the stuff. If there is a market for it, >let someone else sell it. When its politically motivated, it starts to become Censorship. When you begin to drive the competition (or 'alteranative views') away, and leave your choices as the only choices, then it becomes censorship. When you get to make the choice for a very large group of people, and you don't give them alternatives other than "like it or leave it", then you have committed a censorship. Mall-wart comes pretty close in quite a few places, Clear Channel doesn't even try to hide it anymore. Clear Channel is buying up promotional rights in my neighborhood, and that directly applies to Stagecraft. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:47:13 -0400 Subject: Microvision disks? From: Herrick In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <99BD8BF5-B1A0-11D8-BE39-0003934521EC [at] hglightingdesign.com> So I have 2 Microvision questions: 1) do they use HD 1.44 disks or the old (and scarce) 800k disks? I know the Vision consoles use the 800k's 2) the Micro I have apparently dumps the show when we turn it off. (thus I need to save to disk all the more often) I assume this is an issue with the internal drive. Something like a PRAM issue. Is there an easy fix for this? I can live with it but if it's a simple thing I'd like to know. TIA, _Herrick Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ Message-ID: <18134804.1085864507458.JavaMail.root [at] thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 17:01:47 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: seanrmc [at] earthlink.net Subject: Re: Microvision disks? Herrick... Sorry to say, but they do use the DD 3.5" disks. Last time I had to get them (5+ years ago) I lucked out at Radio Shack. You might have luck doing the "puch the hole and fake out the computer trick" (I had a friend to ended up having to do that), but I'm sure ETC won't swear by that. As for the PRAM, I have no idea. Best of luck! --Sean Sean R. McCarthy seanrmc [at] earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: Herrick So I have 2 Microvision questions: 1) do they use HD 1.44 disks or the old (and scarce) 800k disks? I know the Vision consoles use the 800k's 2) the Micro I have apparently dumps the show when we turn it off. (thus I need to save to disk all the more often) I assume this is an issue with the internal drive. Something like a PRAM issue. Is there an easy fix for this? I can live with it but if it's a simple thing I'd like to know. ------------------------------ From: "Michael Eddy" Subject: Re: Microvision disks? Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 17:09:28 -0400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is it the MicroVision or the MicroVision FX? The FX had the slick nail = head buttons, the regular MV had he square plastic buttons and is the older version. They both should take regular floppy disks. (You are correct = about the Vision and floppies AFAIR.) You can also store up to five shows on a floppy with the MV consoles. = FYI The console should keep its memory just fine when it is switched off. = The unit used non-volatile RAM and had a capacitor that backed up the = memory, not a battery. The unit may not work anymore, since we all know that the console is not new. If in doubt, there are still some techs inside ETC that know MicroVisons inside and out. One of whom is David North. Also, Sarah Clausen would = know or at least where to get the answer. The MicroVision was one of my favorite consoles, a lot for its size and = I and others lobbied hard for an Express with the same form factor. It fit into a std 19" rack for one thing as well as most Off and Off Off Bway theatres' booths. HTH, Michael S. Eddy Lighting&Sound America =A0 michael [at] plasa.org www.lightingandsoundamerica.com Herrick asked: So I have 2 Microvision questions: 1) do they use HD 1.44 disks or the old (and scarce) 800k disks? I know=20 the Vision consoles use the 800k's 2) the Micro I have apparently dumps the show when we turn it off.=20 (thus I need to save to disk all the more often) I assume this is an=20 issue with the internal drive. Something like a PRAM issue. Is there an easy fix for this? I can live with it but if it's a simple=20 thing I'd like to know. ------------------------------ From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Counterweight Rigging Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 17:28:30 -0400 Organization: ETSU Message-ID: <000001c445c3$e967a6c0$6400a8c0 [at] delbert> In-Reply-To: Hi folks, Not too long ago I was in a theatre that had had its counterweight system recently inspected by a "rigging consultant." Below are three of the things that I wondered if they had been "approved" by the consultant. When I asked if the consultant had flagged any of these as "problems," I was told "no." I am wondering what Bill and others on the list think about these. 1) Some of the lift lines were tied in clove hitches around the batten and then terminated with two cable clips. (Since a clove hitch weakens the cable by 40%, I would consider this unacceptable). 2) Some of the cable terminations (around thimbles) only had two cable clips. (I think at least three cable clips is required for terminations on 1/4" cable). 3) All of the trim chains used unrated "dog clips" to adjust the trim. These trim chains did have a "safety bolt" (grade 5 bolt with regular nut, no washers). So, is it OK to use the cheap "dog clips" if you use a "safety bolt?" Do you need a safety bolt if you use a rated shackle? I am curious to hear other opinions. -Delbert ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1e1901c445c5$5b8e9000$65011dc7 [at] USER012> From: "Music Ministry" References: Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 16:38:31 -0500 well said, Bruce. Kyle McAllen, TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Purdy" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:13 PM Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) > For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending > your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: > http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ > --------------------------------------------------- > > > Kristi asked: > > > Should Wal-Mart have the right to dictate what is acceptable in the music > > biz? > > Wal*Mart is not dictating what is acceptable in the music biz. They are > deciding what they wish to carry in their own stores. Their size and clout > in the marketplace is problematic, but that falls into what many of us have > been saying already. > > The entire topic of "Censorship" is an emotionally loaded one. I only > buy music that I personally like to listen to. Since I don't buy Rap, Hip > Hop or Heavy metal does that mean that I'm censoring them? A local radio > station plays a country music format - are they censoring what their > listeners can listen to? > > When I worked as a portrait photographer, I would shoot a lot of film, > then edit and show about a quarter of what I had shot. Careful editing was > an important part of my professional duty. Only show the best shots from > which the customer can make their selections. I had a couple of customers > over the years accuse me of "Censoring" them - that they had a "Right" to > see every frame I shot. > > I am deeply offended by some of the lyrics in what passes for "Music" in > some circles. If I owned a music store I would refuse to carry such garbage. > That's not censorship, It's my right to dictate the image of my store. I'm > not preventing anyone from recording the stuff. If there is a market for it, > let someone else sell it. > > That is where an independent entrepreneur has an edge over the giants > like Wal*Mart - Niche market items. Products that are not main stream and > don't have a huge market probably won't face as much competition from the > Big Boxes. > > Bruce > -- > Bruce Purdy > Technical Director > Smith Opera House > > ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Prepare for an aneurism... From: "Jack E. Wilkinson" In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <1085867515.3233.4.camel [at] scarpia.drbear.com> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 16:51:55 -0500 c'mon people. what kind of souls have you! frank has irked me as much as the many other of you, but this behavior of yours is just downright childish and disgusting. how would YOU feel if you happened to subscribe to issue #21 and see some of the comments that were in it made about you? i bet you wouldn't like it too much. in short, show some compassion to your fellow man. -- Jack E. Wilkinson ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Microvision disks? Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 17:34:46 -0500 Message-ID: <0B70E9798A3B4E4080E46327FA359F21051FE9 [at] MIDL-MAILV.etclink.net> From: "Sarah Clausen" Hi Herrick - The last time I used a Microvision FX (which was about a month ago), I = had great success with DD disks, and less success with a HD disk = (however, I believe that the disk itself was bad - I remember not having = trouble with HD disks on another Microvision FX). The memory problem was accurately described by Michael Eddy - the = capacitor is not holding a charge anymore, so show data is lost on power = down. This can be fixed by the Repairs department at ETC (I'm pretty = sure this is true). Until it's fixed, you'll have to reload the show, or = not turn off the console. Hope that helps - Sarah Sarah Clausen Product Manager Electronic Theatre Controls, Inc. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000701c445d5$4d1b4580$85ecbed0 [at] hppav> From: "Joe Meils" References:

Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 18:33:08 -0500 I think Tommy Smothers (of The Smothers Brothers fame) said it best: "The only valid form of censorship is the right of the people not to listen." In a perfect world, retailers wouldn't be dictating to artists what the content of their work will be. But, since they have a line on so many people's pocketbooks, they think they are suddenly able make decisions of taste for everyone. Frankly, I find it insulting! They are saying that I can't make decisions on what I enjoy, for myself. Somehow, because they are very powerful in terms of their ability to sell, they should be dictating what I'm buying. (Not to mention how the artists must feel, having their creative choices second guessed. Usually by some middle management type for a K-Mart on steroids, which treats their workers like indentured servants.) I don't buy music from Wal Mart, or any of the other chains. If I hear that a "name" store is only offering edited versions of a CD, or a video, or a DVD, then I simply start patronizing other stores, ones with integrity. Joe > > The entire topic of "Censorship" is an emotionally loaded one. I only > > buy music that I personally like to listen to. Since I don't buy Rap, Hip > > Hop or Heavy metal does that mean that I'm censoring them? A local radio > > station plays a country music format - are they censoring what their > > listeners can listen to? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20040530000058.93414.qmail [at] web41602.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 17:00:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Steeve Vajk Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) In-Reply-To: In discussing Wal-Mart's music sales practices, I think we need to be very careful about the use of the term Censorship. Censorship is limited to "Offical" suppression of content; ie there are LEGAL consequences to violation. There is a HUGE difference between outlawing content and a private enterprise chosing not to sell a product. Just because Wal-Mart doesn't sell it doesn't mean the independent seller will go to jail for selling it. THAT would be censorship. I have no problem at all with Wal-Mart selling "edited" versions, as the artists ultimately have a free choice as to what they want; to sell more records, or to claim artistic value to saying F&%#. I don't really like the fact that they don't label it as edited, but ultimately that's that artists problem. If they don't want their record sold unlabeled. they don't HAVE to sign the contract. It's a free market, which means you are NOT ENTITLED to make money doing anything. No matter what you do, it has no intrinsic monetary value. Value only comes from the market. There are times when this sucks and there are times when this is great. But it sure beats any other system out there. Ever been to a grocery store in a Communist nation? As free as you are to produce content that some would define as offensive, you MUST acknowledge Wal-Mart's right to be just as free to not sell what they don't want to. The essence of a free society is that you are free to criticize Wal-Mart's practices JUST as much as Wal-Mart is free to practice them. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 22:46:23 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging At 5:28 PM -0400 5/29/04, Delbert Hall wrote: >1) Some of the lift lines were tied in clove hitches around the batten >and then terminated with two cable clips. AFAIC, the only acceptable wire-to-pipe connection method is either trim chain or batten clamp, with trim chains getting my personal nod. >2) Some of the cable terminations (around thimbles) only had two cable >clips. (I think at least three cable clips is required for terminations >on 1/4" cable). I can't remember right off if it's two or three for 1/4". I *think* as long as you have the torque of the nuts set correctly, at least two clips, and the correct distance between 1st clip and tail of the dead end & etc., the number may or may not be critical. Personally, I'd Nicopress the thimble in and be done with clips. >So, is it OK to use the cheap "dog clips" if you use >a "safety bolt?" Do you need a safety bolt if you use a rated shackle? In order: No, and Yes. Dog clips are for clipping dogs to their leashes. Bill? Your turn. -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University Carpe Per Diem ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: <103.47063770.2deaa920 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 23:04:00 EDT Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging My turn? I don't want a turn. I just flew in from Helsinki via Stockholm and boy are my arms tired.... Anyway Cloves hitches do reduce wire rope ratings but I have never been able to break a piece of 1/4" wire rope at the hitch. It has always broken above the hitch. Always. But, the wire rope guys say don't tie knots in wire rope and who am I to argue? So I don't. Two clips are required for sizes up to and including 3/8". 7/16" and higher get three. Except in California where by law all sizes get three. (stupid politicians....good salesperson) Oval swage fittings, be they Nicopress or Loos are indeed preferred. BTW, wire rope clips and manually swaged fittings are both illegal, and i do mean illegal, in Finland and many other European countries. There are no rules for trim chains, or for that matter, most other theatre lifting equipment. What we do have are industry standards (not to be confused with the ESTA Standards) and common practices. Both frown on the use of non-load rated equipment in an overhead condition. Both prefer a rated screw pin anchor shackle (with pin safety) and a back up safety bolt. And that's what gets my vote also. Time to get some sleep. If I didn't make any sense in this post...tough noogies. Bill In a message dated 5/29/04 10:49:00 PM, rigger [at] tds.net writes: << >1) Some of the lift lines were tied in clove hitches around the batten >and then terminated with two cable clips. AFAIC, the only acceptable wire-to-pipe connection method is either trim chain or batten clamp, with trim chains getting my personal nod. >2) Some of the cable terminations (around thimbles) only had two cable >clips. (I think at least three cable clips is required for terminations >on 1/4" cable). I can't remember right off if it's two or three for 1/4". I *think* as long as you have the torque of the nuts set correctly, at least two clips, and the correct distance between 1st clip and tail of the dead end & etc., the number may or may not be critical. Personally, I'd Nicopress the thimble in and be done with clips. >So, is it OK to use the cheap "dog clips" if you use >a "safety bolt?" Do you need a safety bolt if you use a rated shackle? In order: No, and Yes. Dog clips are for clipping dogs to their leashes. Bill? Your turn >> ------------------------------ Message-ID: <40B952FE.3050300 [at] primary.net> Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 22:20:30 -0500 From: Michael Heinicke Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging References: In-Reply-To: /> BTW, wire rope clips and manually swaged fittings are both illegal, and i do > mean illegal, in Finland and many other European countries. So what is the legal method of terminating a cable? Mike H ------------------------------ From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 23:18:34 -0400 Organization: ETSU Message-ID: <000401c445f4$cf7b7d50$6400a8c0 [at] delbert> In-Reply-To: Dave, Your response is exactly what I have always said. The only exception is I ALWAYS heard that you should use three clips on 1/4" cable. After a little research, here is what I found on this subject: According to Musson Theatrical's web site: First know that in California you'll always be installing at least three wire rope clips per termination. In other states the number required will be specified by the wire rope clips' manufacturer. Place the first clip's saddle on the live rope, and the U-bolt around the dead horse. Position this clip about one saddle width above the thimble. Space the second and third clips about 5 times the cable diameter apart (1/4" x 5 = 1-1/4") . However, JR Clancy (http://www.jrclancy.com/Downloads/No6.pdf) says two clips are fine for 1/4" cable, with a 4-3/4" turnback and 15 foot lbs of torque. I am at home and don't have my Crosby info handy. -Delbert -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Rigger Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 10:46 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- At 5:28 PM -0400 5/29/04, Delbert Hall wrote: >1) Some of the lift lines were tied in clove hitches around the batten >and then terminated with two cable clips. AFAIC, the only acceptable wire-to-pipe connection method is either trim chain or batten clamp, with trim chains getting my personal nod. >2) Some of the cable terminations (around thimbles) only had two cable >clips. (I think at least three cable clips is required for terminations >on 1/4" cable). I can't remember right off if it's two or three for 1/4". I *think* as long as you have the torque of the nuts set correctly, at least two clips, and the correct distance between 1st clip and tail of the dead end & etc., the number may or may not be critical. Personally, I'd Nicopress the thimble in and be done with clips. >So, is it OK to use the cheap "dog clips" if you use >a "safety bolt?" Do you need a safety bolt if you use a rated shackle? In order: No, and Yes. Dog clips are for clipping dogs to their leashes. Bill? Your turn. -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University Carpe Per Diem ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 00:31:41 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging At 11:04 PM -0400 5/29/04, Bsapsis [at] aol.com wrote: > BTW, wire rope clips and manually swaged fittings are > both illegal, and i do mean illegal, in Finland and > many other European countries. But OTOH they drink paint thinner, so how sensible can they be? -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University Carpe Per Diem ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 00:33:40 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging At 10:20 PM -0500 5/29/04, Michael Heinicke wrote: >> BTW, wire rope clips and manually swaged fittings are both illegal, and i do >> mean illegal, in Finland and many other European countries. > > So what is the legal method of terminating a cable? Machine-swaged fittings, I'll wager. -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University Carpe Per Diem ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 00:39:31 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging At 11:18 PM -0400 5/29/04, Delbert Hall wrote: > I am at home and don't have my Crosby info handy. I've got mine at home... Crosby says two for 1/4". -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University Carpe Per Diem ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 00:42:17 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging At 11:04 PM -0400 5/29/04, Bsapsis [at] aol.com wrote: > Time to get some sleep. If I didn't make any sense in this post... ...We'd know you were back to normal. (p.s. please stop agreeing with me. it makes me nervous) -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University Carpe Per Diem ------------------------------ From: "Jason" References: Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 01:15:04 -0700 Message-ID: 1.My questions are why did they need too? Added line set? No swaging tool? 2.I personally don't like trim chains. Especially when using a truss batten, Turn buckles are needed. 3.It must be a single pipe counter weight system. 4.There are "dog clips" that are rated ( just sent a national tour with "dog clips" on the 14 of 15 video screens they are using on stage ) 5. Bolts or nuts are to put two (2) flat side surfaces to mate.With chain use a shackle. Use bolts and nuts on your towing RV safety chain I use a shackle. 6. As for a clove hitch on anything of weight I take a rap then the clove then another rap then terminated. Not that much stress on the steel. Foy him self taught me allot Delbert back in the 70's ----- Original Message ----- From: "Delbert Hall" > Hi folks, > > Not too long ago I was in a theatre that had had its counterweight > system recently inspected by a "rigging consultant." Below are three of > the things that I wondered if they had been "approved" by the > consultant. When I asked if the consultant had flagged any of these as > "problems," I was told "no." I am wondering what Bill and others on the > list think about these. > > 1) Some of the lift lines were tied in clove hitches around the batten > and then terminated with two cable clips. (Since a clove hitch weakens > the cable by 40%, I would consider this unacceptable). > > 2) Some of the cable terminations (around thimbles) only had two cable > clips. (I think at least three cable clips is required for terminations > on 1/4" cable). > > 3) All of the trim chains used unrated "dog clips" to adjust the trim. > These trim chains did have a "safety bolt" (grade 5 bolt with regular > nut, no washers). So, is it OK to use the cheap "dog clips" if you use > a "safety bolt?" Do you need a safety bolt if you use a rated shackle? > > > I am curious to hear other opinions. > > -Delbert > > > > ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #22 ****************************