Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.1.8 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #23 Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 03:00:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #23 1. Re: Counterweight Rigging by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 2. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com 3. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com 4. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com 5. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by Bruce Purdy 6. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by Bruce Purdy 7. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by Bruce Purdy 8. Re: Censorship, good taste, and integrity. ;) by "Joe Meils" 9. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by Jerry Durand 10. Re: Prepare for an aneurism... by Chris Davis 11. Drapes in High Schools by "William Knapp" 12. Re: Counterweight Rigging by 13. Re: Counterweight Rigging by Michael Powers 14. overhead, over there by "William Knapp" 15. Re: Automation Grenade ... careful ... by "Big Fred Schoening" 16. Re: Drapes in High Schools by "Big Fred Schoening" 17. Re: Drapes in High Schools by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 18. Re: Drapes in High Schools by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 19. Re: Automation Grenade ... careful ... by Jerry Durand 20. Re: Drapes in High Schools by "Jeremiah Minh Greenblatt" 21. Re: Drapes in High Schools by Kyle Dugger 22. Re: Automation Grenade ... careful ... by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 23. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by Rigger 24. Re: Counterweight Rigging by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 25. Re: Automation Grenade ... careful ... by "Delbert Hall" 26. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 27. Re: Prepare for an aneurism... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 28. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by Jerry Durand 29. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 30. Re: overhead, over there by Tony Miller 31. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com 32. Re: Microvision disks? by Stephen Litterst 33. Re: Counterweight Rigging by Stephen Litterst 34. Re: Prepare for an aneurism... by CB 35. Re: Automation Grenade ... careful ... by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 36. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by Richard Niederberg 37. Re: overhead, over there by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 38. Re: Automation Grenade ... careful ... by Howie 39. Re: overhead, over there by 40. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com 41. Re: Microvision disks? by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com 42. Re: Microvision disks? by Rigger 43. Re: Microvision disks? by Robert Spier *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: <14.2ad7ac14.2deb163b [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 06:49:31 EDT Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging Machine swaged fittings and a wonderful array of wedge sockets. In a message dated 5/30/04 12:36:09 AM, rigger [at] tds.net writes: << > So what is the legal method of terminating a cable? Machine-swaged fittings, I'll wager. >> ------------------------------ From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1d9.22a13d59.2deb4164 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 09:53:40 EDT Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) Bruce Purdy writes: >It's my right to dictate the image of my store. I'm not preventing anyone from recording >the stuff. If there is a market for it, let someone else sell it. Unfortunately, it appears that the only selection criteria many retailers (and producers) follow is that of the dollars to be made. I see a kind of parallel to the fast food and junk food businesses in America. For approximately the past fifty years the market has grown explosively as the consumer voted with their dollars. It is now becoming clear that there are serious health consequences that result when these choices become normative behavior. And who accepts responsibility....the consumer? No, the supplier is taken to court! When the "angry voice of protest" and the conviction that "anything is permissible" become normative social behavior, I fear that serious consequences will befall the body politic. I can only hope that since the nature of theatre and art is to be contrarian, it will soon have to adopt the opposite of the present antisocial climate in order to fulfill its nature. Steve Vanciel Orlando, FL ------------------------------ From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com Message-ID: <12b.42c8c831.2deb4191 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 09:54:25 EDT Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) Dave Vick writes: >You sound like my parents, the day I bought my first Guess Who 45 in 3rd grade... Must be a byproduct of being the parent of two teen boys. >That, BTW, is not a good thing to sound like. Funny, that's what my boys think. Seriously though, many things that might be palatable in small doses can become toxic at larger doses. Steve Vanciel Orlando, FL ------------------------------ From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com Message-ID: <7e.4fa2981f.2deb41a8 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 09:54:48 EDT Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) Dave Vick writes: >As long as they don't play it at 120dB outside my front porch, >I couldn't care less what anyone calls it. So, 115dB is OK? Steve Vanciel Orlando, FL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > When its politically motivated, it starts to become Censorship. When you > begin to drive the competition (or 'alteranative views') away, and leave > your choices as the only choices, then it becomes censorship. When you get > to make the choice for a very large group of people, and you don't give > them alternatives other than "like it or leave it", then you have committed > a censorship Sorry Chris, but I have to disagree with you. If the government passes laws that say something can't be made or sold, that is censorship. If a store chooses not to carry the product, it is not. Wal*Mart is too big and dominant in the market place, but they are not and never will be the *Only* place to buy things. Even if they did run every other store in town out of business, there is always the internet. I recently needed a heavy duty piano hinge for an outdoor display case. Lowes, Home Despot and even those remaining hardware stores only carried the flimsy lightweight piano hinges which would not work for me. I found what I needed at the McMaster-Carr website. Now, since Lowes didn't carry *every* type of hinge made, are they guilty of censoring hinges? I admit I don't really understand what you mean by "Politically motivated" when it comes to music. Do you mean "Taste motivated"? Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:38:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > But, since they have a line on so many > people's pocketbooks, they think they are suddenly able make decisions of > taste for everyone. Frankly, I find it insulting! They are saying that I > can't make decisions on what I enjoy, for myself. No Joe, they are saying you can't buy certain things *At their store*, not that you can't enjoy it. You simply have to buy it somewhere else. They have "a line on the pocketbooks" only of people who shop in their store. The fact that they squeeze out competition is a separate discussion, but there are always alternatives. Do you find it insulting that they don't carry certain brands of clothing that you might happen to like? Are they preventing you from making decisions on what you enjoy in that area as well? >I don't buy music from Wal Mart, or any of the other chains. Now THAT makes sense. You see?, they aren't dictating what you can buy, only what you can buy at THEIR store. If you aren't happy with what they sell, shop elsewhere. If more people did that, they wouldn't be as big and powerful as they are. Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:42:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > In discussing Wal-Mart's music sales practices, I think we need to be > very careful about the use of the term Censorship Excellent post, Steeve! It's good to know I'm the only sensible one here. : ) Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000f01c44659$bc46b280$5cecbed0 [at] hppav> From: "Joe Meils" References: Subject: Re: Censorship, good taste, and integrity. ;) Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 10:21:08 -0500 Bruce, I agree with you! A good example of this would be the big dust up in FL a few years back over the "2 Live Crew" album, "Nasty As They Wanna Be." Lot's of retailers passed on the album, saying it wasn't the kind of product they wanted on their shelves. But then a neighborhood watchdog group there convinced a judge to rule that the songs violated local obscenity laws. In doing so, it became illegal to sell it anywhere in the state of FL. THAT was censorship. This sort of thing is something that my department is greatly aware of. There are plays out there that we will probably NEVER do, simply because we are a University located in a small town in the Bible Belt. Just this last season, we featured "One Flea Spare" (murder, bondage, adulterous sex) "Blood Poetry" (gay themes, an onstage oral sex encounter, prostitution) among several others which centered around abortion, euthenasia, and masturbation. There were times we were sweating bullets over how the outside community might react to some of these productions. Still, the shows went on. It seems we always have to temper our desire to present thoughtful, intelligent works, with the desire to not offend the community at large. What a great world it would be, if we didn't have to. Joe > > Sorry Chris, but I have to disagree with you. > If the government passes laws that say something can't be made or sold, that > is censorship. If a store chooses not to carry the product, it is not. > ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20040530082137.02ff15f8 [at] localhost> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 08:27:11 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) In-Reply-To: References: At 07:42 AM 5/30/2004, you wrote: > > In discussing Wal-Mart's music sales practices, I think we need to be > > very careful about the use of the term Censorship > > Excellent post, Steeve! It's good to know I'm the only sensible one >here. : ) I haven't been in a Wal-Mart in many years, but I gather the music they sell IS censored but isn't labeled as being any different than what I could buy from other stores. THAT I have a problem with. Well, also, weren't they caught a bunch of times importing things from Asia with "Made in USA" stickers on them? I used to buy from an electronics distributor that put big American flag stickers on all their boxes saying "Thanks for buying American" when the only thing American about the shipment was the cardboard box and the postage. I told them I didn't like this, doubt it was noted. ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 11:29:47 -0400 From: Chris Davis Subject: Re: Prepare for an aneurism... In-reply-to: Message-id: <5.1.0.14.0.20040530112712.009fa980 [at] mail-hub.optonline.net> References: At 04:51 PM 5/29/2004 -0500, "Jack E. Wilkinson" wrote: >frank has irked me as much as the many other of you, but this behavior >of yours is just downright childish and disgusting. Honestly, I don't think anyone has said anything about Frank that could be construed as "childish and disgusting". I for one don't think Frank would have a problem with it. And if you do Frank, let me apologize ahead of time... Chris D. __________________________________ Chris Davis jstraw20 [at] yahoo.com Asst. Lighting Supervisor Queens Theater In The Park ------------------------------ From: "William Knapp" Subject: Drapes in High Schools Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:10:19 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Scott, Not in reply to your post. But when you're replacing drapes please, PLEASE don't let anyone replace their masking with drapes with fullness. It's amazing how many schools were sold masking that is ocher with fullness. But it's even more amazing to me how many have black masking with fullness, many college and even professional theaters have fullness in their black masking. When I have a coniption about it TDs often say "I like how the fullness looks. it's BLACK, it's MASKING, by every rule and convention of the theater it's not supposed to be seen! you're just working against that when you spend more money to put fullness in the masking. I was talking to someone at I. Wiess recently and they said "we just give them what they ask for". Which I translate as "we don't care how wrong it is if we can squeeze another dime out of them". Although flat masking is the only way to go it's just a lot cheaper. I'm so often appalled at the way in which new spaces have been outfitted by "consultants". Have these people every spent any time working in a theater, are they paid by a percentage of the amount they spend? Anyway it sounds like a great project, I hope you can encourage practical solutions like with the PARs. I mean it's really smart thinking, not big spending that makes good theater. Will Knapp Production Manager Merce Cunningham Dance Company 55 Bethune St. New York, NY 10014 +1 212 255 8140 X20 mailto:will [at] thebase.com ------------------------------ From: Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:15:33 -0400 Message-Id: <20040530161533.TTXS1360.de-fe02.dejazzd.com [at] de-fe02> > > So what is the legal method of terminating a cable? > > > Machine-swaged fittings, I'll wager. That is my personal choice since I can't get those darn sleeves to compress anywhere near "passing" on the go-no-go gauge with my fingers (and they are a little hard on my teeth) ;) Greg Bierly Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:46:51 -0400 From: Michael Powers Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging Message-id: <1085935611.40ba0ffb5f48a [at] mail-www3.oit.umass.edu> Bsapsis [at] aol.com writes: << .... BTW, wire rope clips and manually swaged fittings are both illegal, and i do mean illegal, in Finland and many other European countries. ..... >> Bill, After your arms are rested up, I'd be interested in your thoughts on the above mentioned regulations. In your opinion, what is the rationale behind the regulation and is it good, bad or overkill? Also how does it affect individual productions such as university shows or shows produced by small venues such as whatever happens to be their equivalent of regional and/or community theatres? Do you think this is a harbriger of things to come here in the US? Along that same line, I have heard (rumor only, not verified in any way) that manual counterweight systems were going to be outlawed in many European countries because of the repetitive motion injuries possible from loading the counterweights. Do you have any further info on this? If it's true, I'd ask the same questions again. Michael Michael Powers, Technical Director UMass Theatre Department 112 FAC West 151 Presidents Drive, Ofc.2 Amherst, Ma. 01003-9331 413-545-6821 voice 413-577-0025 fax mfpowers [at] theater.umass.edu ------------------------------ From: "William Knapp" Subject: overhead, over there Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:00:37 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: We went into the Barbican once with a piece that had 9 battens of full width tail-down pipes (to hang dimmable flourescents below the borders). We had made, at a good expense, about 70 10' long 3/8" cables with a hand swage on either end to accomplish this, and had performed the piece in a number of cities including at the Paris Opera. Well the English would only accept cable terminations that were rated by a certified engineer of some sort. The guy refused to even test our cables, he had to remake them himself on some kind of machine. They were VERY expensive, but man are those swages beautiful and the cables are all EXACTLY the same length. I did a show somewhere in Germany once and we brought with us air craft cable with black plastic sheathing for some kind of tail down trick. They didn't let us use it because you couldn't inspect the cable. I don't remember them having an issue with the terminations however. Will Knapp Production Manager Merce Cunningham Dance Company 55 Bethune St. New York, NY 10014 +1 212 255 8240 X20 mailto:will [at] thebase.com ------------------------------ From: "Big Fred Schoening" Subject: Re: Automation Grenade ... careful ... Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 14:05:22 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c44679$124bef50$270110ac [at] PRODIGALBRAIN> In-Reply-To: Sounds like this guy has made a bunch of sweeping generalizations about the safety of automation in general without having any facts or figures to back it up. It reads to me like propaganda. "Big Fred" Schoening Technical Director Dallas Theater Center Dallas, Texas, USA "...a root word of technology, techne, originally meant 'art.' The ancient Greeks never separated art from manufacture in their minds, and so never developed separate words for them." - Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance -----Original Message----- mornin' all ... so here's a grenade for the collective wisdom of the list. And FWIW, I'm only a simple country Vari*Lite guy working on a small skit here in the big city ... so don't hold any of this against me!! In fact, an automation carpenter (the lovely and talented Brook Carlson) sent this to me ... I'm sure others have seen it, but I'm interested in what discussions will come from this. http://www.iatselocalone.org/safety/essay.html ------------------------------ From: "Big Fred Schoening" Subject: Re: Drapes in High Schools Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 14:05:22 -0500 Message-ID: <001201c44679$156cb750$270110ac [at] PRODIGALBRAIN> In-Reply-To: Will Knapp wrote: 'it's BLACK, it's MASKING, by every rule and convention of the theater it's not supposed to be seen!" Uh, actually, it IS seen. Otherwise, why would you have it at all? Masking hides *other things* from being seen. Therefore, it's not unreasonable to want your masking to look nice. I'll agree that you don't want light splashing all over it - ideally, the audience should get the impression that there's just a big black hole or shadow up there. But it is visible to a certain extent. "I was talking to someone at I. Wiess recently and they said 'we just give them what they ask for'. Which I translate as 'we don't care how wrong it is if we can squeeze another dime out of them'. Although flat masking is the only way to go it's just a lot cheaper." That's putting some awfully harsh words in their mouths. Sounds to me like they're saying that they aren't going to presume to tell the customer what would/wouldn't look good in their space. I agree that flat masking is less expensive and often more practical. If you want fullness for a specific application, you can just bunch it up on the pipe. But honestly, IMHO there are bigger battles to fight than worrying about masking that's TOO nice. ; ) Fred "Big Fred" Schoening Technical Director Dallas Theater Center Dallas, Texas, USA "...a root word of technology, techne, originally meant 'art.' The ancient Greeks never separated art from manufacture in their minds, and so never developed separate words for them." - Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:15:13 -0400 From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Subject: Re: Drapes in High Schools Message-ID: <16443284.2759F755.0016695D [at] aol.com> If they are looking at the masking, then the show is in trouble. Bill S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:18:25 -0400 From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Subject: Re: Drapes in High Schools Message-ID: <2F1A9B64.4B5DDEB5.0016695D [at] aol.com> Masking with fullness will better break up any light bounce you may get than masking without. Masking with 50% fullness will also hide the vertical seams of the good because the pleats are sewn at the seams. IMHO, masking with fullness is better looking and does a better job of masking that is hung flat. Of course, you can always create fullness by bunching the drapes on the pipe. But you will have to make sure the flat drape is wide enough to cover the intended area when it is hung with fullness. Bill S. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20040530122717.02fee340 [at] localhost> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:29:35 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Automation Grenade ... careful ... In-Reply-To: References: At 12:05 PM 5/30/2004, you wrote: >Sounds like this guy has made a bunch of sweeping generalizations about >the safety of automation in general without having any facts or figures >to back it up. It reads to me like propaganda. Isn't there a big concern about repetitive stress injuries in manually operated shows? Seems like the writer should be concerned about balancing the health of the workers with getting a paycheck. To continue his point, we should ban forklifts and even wheelbarrows, we'd employ more people without them. ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ From: "Jeremiah Minh Greenblatt" Subject: Re: Drapes in High Schools Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:42:25 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c4467e$3c6a7590$0300a8c0 [at] Roadbox> In-Reply-To: I find it useful to remember, in a school environment, just how many non-theatrical uses a theater may be required to serve. In an auditorium situation (i.e. full house-lights, very general stage lighting) the masking may be much more visible than we would expect in a production scenario. For such a multi-use facility I would often recommend a degree of fullness in the drapery that I would not consider for a strictly performance oriented venue. All things being equal, you wouldn't want to have to bring in scenery or hang new soft-goods for morning assembly or graduation - in fact this would likely cost much more over the years than the additional expense of some fullness in the masking. Just my thoughts. Jeremiah Minh Greenblatt NYC ------------------------------ Message-ID: <40BA3D58.3000904 [at] earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:00:24 -0500 From: Kyle Dugger Subject: Re: Drapes in High Schools References: There are times for both. When the item upstage of the masking has fullnes such as a traveler then is looks better to have masking with fullness because it gives you a more seamless transition between the traveler and the masking. When you are masking the top of a drop then a flat piece of masking material looks better because you get a nice clean line across the top rather than a wavy one. kyle dugger >For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending >your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: > http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ >--------------------------------------------------- > > >I find it useful to remember, in a school environment, just how many >non-theatrical uses a theater may be required to serve. In an auditorium >situation (i.e. full house-lights, very general stage lighting) the >masking may be much more visible than we would expect in a production >scenario. For such a multi-use facility I would often recommend a degree >of fullness in the drapery that I would not consider for a strictly >performance oriented venue. All things being equal, you wouldn't want to >have to bring in scenery or hang new soft-goods for morning assembly or >graduation - in fact this would likely cost much more over the years >than the additional expense of some fullness in the masking. > >Just my thoughts. > >Jeremiah Minh Greenblatt >NYC > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: <55.58c5056c.2deba221 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 16:46:25 EDT Subject: Re: Automation Grenade ... careful ... First the disclaimer. John Diaz is the guy who hires me to conduct rigging=20 seminars for Local 1. OK. That being said and in spite of the fact that he hires me, he is a good= =20 guy who knows his stuff. When reading that article I would ask that you tak= e=20 several things into consideration. He is the VP of IA Local # 1. He does n= ot=20 work for a rigging company or an automation company. His responsibilities=20 include answering to the rank and file and protecting their needs. Another thing to consider is that he's right. Automated equipment does not=20 get inspected or maintained. The number of winches I've seen that have had=20= no=20 one even look at them in 20 years is astounding. I've been in theaters wher= e=20 no one...and I do mean no one...even knew the equipment was there! Yes, the= =20 lights flew up and down when they pushed a button, but they had no &$#&&% id= ea=20 what the gear that accomplished this miracle was or where it might be hidden= . The only company that I have seen that *consistently* inspects, maintains an= d=20 repairs their equipment is Cirque du Soleil. And then it's usually only on=20 their non touring shows. John's comments about grids is also right on. I inspected an unnamed TV=20 studio grid in NYC that was so close to failure I refused to walk on the pip= es. =20 This was not some side street rehearsal. This was a broadcast studio that y= ou=20 have all seen on TV at one time or another. Some of you waaaay too often bu= t=20 that's a different matter. And finally, his comments about stagehands being better than machines is a=20 bit biased, but can you blame him? He wants his people to be working. Thos= e of=20 you out there who have employees want your people working also, don't you? While John's presentation is one sided, his ideas are accurate. There aren'= t=20 too many people in this world who see as much theatre and deal with as much=20 stage equipment...in all it's permutations...as an NYC stagehand. I learned= my=20 craft from, in my opinion, some of the best people to ever walk across the=20 stage, and a lot of them were from New York. It seems to me that we all could stand to take a step back, take a deep=20 breath and consider how we draw conclusions these days. The Internet has gi= ven us=20 the opportunity to review tons of material in a very short time. Maybe we=20 should take a minute to read these things a couple of times before we offer=20 comments. I know I'm guilty of jumping to conclusions more often that I car= e to=20 admit. Just my =E2=82=AC2 worth. Be well Bill S. Sapsis Rigging, Inc. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile We stand behind, our work. and under,=20 << mornin' all ... so here's a grenade for the collective wisdom of the=20 list. And FWIW, I'm only a simple country Vari*Lite guy working on a=20 small skit here in the big city ... so don't hold any of this against=20 me!! In fact, an automation carpenter (the lovely and talented Brook=20 Carlson) sent this to me ... I'm sure others have seen it, but I'm=20 interested in what discussions will come from this. >> ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 17:47:25 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) At 9:54 AM -0400 5/30/04, StevevETTrn [at] aol.com wrote: >>As long as they don't play it at 120dB outside my front porch, >>I couldn't care less what anyone calls it. > >So, 115dB is OK? My shooting muffs can handle 115dB. -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University Carpe Per Diem ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1ca.224a3426.2debb567 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:08:39 EDT Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging Michael. I just realized that we've had this very same conversation...on this list...exactly four years ago. (The last time I went to Finland). What goes 'round comes 'round, eh? My opinions? Gee. Do I have any opinions? You should know better than to open that gate. But you did so here ya are. First off, I think it a bit presumptuous of me to critique another country's regulations. Unless I understand their culture well enough to understand the nuances of their collective consciousness, who am I to second guess them? So, yeah. Sure. I've got opinions. <> First off, I think they're right. With so many types of fasteners on the market, why should we use the ones that are the least safest and most easiest to screw up? Because they're cheap, that's why. The Europeans understand this and simply won't allow it. And yes, this goes for all theaters on all levels. I'm sure there are some miscreants somewhere who are breaking the rules, but you should hear the reaction from the crowd when I throw a picture of a cable clip up on the screen. There is that audible gasp as though I just showed a picture of a naked lady or something. Which sort of happened to a guy from Denmark who was discussing truss one day during the seminars. ( the theatre had invited some commercial companies in to do a show and tell) He forgot to disable the default screen saver on his lap top and at one point, when he hadn't changed an image for about 3 minutes, the screen went to this photo of a young woman's butt. A very nice butt it was too. It took him a minute to figure out what all the tittering in the audience was about. This is exactly why the screen saver I have on my laptop is one of my three kids playing poker...in pirate costumes. Anyway, back to the topic at hand....Rememeber that we're pretty much on our own when it comes to designing that left handed widget we need for a production. There are very few rules out there. Much less than you realize. (many of the so-called rules are actually only recommendations and are not legally mandated...but that is a whole 'nuther story) So what happens is we tend to look for something we can afford, not necessarily something that is right. If that were the case we would never have started using wire rope clips in the first place. Wedge sockets and/or fist grips make much more sense. They just cost a lot. As for counterweight being on the way out.....IMHO...Yup! (with a capitol Y) The Dutch and the Belgians, while not specifically ruling out counterweight systems, have made it illegal to do certain repetitive motions with weights in hand. So, maybe they didn't come right out and say you can't load weights on a loading bridge into a counterweight arbor, but that's the effect. And because this comes down from the Health offices of these two countries, there won't be much argument. Anytime a recognized problem can be solved, and this certainly fits that category, and the end result is that the citizenry are healthier and safer AND the government is saving some money, you can be sure it isn't going away. It is only a matter of time before these concepts are adopted by other the other EU nations (hey, they do talk to each other, ya know). Even the UK will eventually fall in line. EU or no EU. And that means, my friends, that we will be last in line, but we will sign on at some point. Now, there is a gentlemen from Clancy who I believe reads this list and he has his finger on this pulse better than I do. I'm wondering if I could coerce him into a comment or two. Not to worry, I'm not giving out names or anything. Let's face it folks, we live in a litigious country and we work in an industry that is finally growing up as far as safety is concerned. For the first 85 years of the last century we adopted a devil may care attitude. And, for the most part, we got away with it. Then we got a little smarter and started questioning some of the unsafe practices. once you get that ball rolling you cannot and will not and should not stop it. we are beginning to understand that what we do really is a bona fide business and not our hobby and that, much as we hate to admit it, we will have to follow the rules and the regs, the common sense standards and policies that exist out there in the real world. Working with counterweights can be dangerous. It is by far the leading cause of death and serious injury in this industry. (you may not hear about the accidents in high schools and colleges, but they are out there just the same.) I asked a gentleman in Helsinki (who is decidedly in a position to know) if he thought the rules that started in Holland and Belgium would come to Finland and he said...."I hope not, but I believe it is inevitable." And I would have to agree with him. OK. That's enough for one day. Be well Bill S. Sapsis Rigging, Inc. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile We stand behind, our work. and under, In a message dated 5/30/04 12:53:10 PM, mfpowers [at] theater.umass.edu writes: << After your arms are rested up, I'd be interested in your thoughts on the above mentioned regulations. In your opinion, what is the rationale behind the regulation and is it good, bad or overkill? Also how does it affect individual productions such as university shows or shows produced by small venues such as whatever happens to be their equivalent of regional and/or community theatres? Do you think this is a harbriger of things to come here in the US? Along that same line, I have heard (rumor only, not verified in any way) that manual counterweight systems were going to be outlawed in many European countries because of the repetitive motion injuries possible from loading the counterweights. Do you have any further info on this? If it's true, I'd ask the same questions again. Michael Michael Powers, Technical Director UMass Theatre Department 112 FAC West 151 Presidents Drive, Ofc.2 Amherst, Ma. 01003-9331 >> ------------------------------ From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Automation Grenade ... careful ... Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:13:33 -0400 Organization: ETSU Message-ID: <000401c44693$599d89d0$6400a8c0 [at] delbert> In-Reply-To: Preset light consoles and electronic dimmer were first introduced in 1932 and were widely used by the 1960's. The BIG exception was in Broadway theatres. As I hear it, Local 1 kept them out because it would only have required one or two operators to run the lights for a show, instead of eight or ten guys running piano boards. The first electronic dimmers were used on Broadway in 1974 (with a computerized console). Can the same logic that Mr. Diaz applied to automation also be applied to lighting (except for the safety part)? I think so. Would Diaz recommend that Broadway theatres go back to piano boards so that more union members will have jobs? Maybe, but I do not think it is lightly that automation is any more in danger than computerized lighting consoles. I assume that most Broadway theatre's electrical systems have been upgraded through the years to accommodate the additional power needed for contemporary lighting. Have the structural aspects of the many theatres also been upgraded to handle the additional loads? I don't know, but I would imagine that many have been. Automation has taken away many jobs many industries (not just theatre), but it has created many more jobs for system designers, winch manufacturers, computer programmers, electrical engineers, and hopefully inspectors. Where would the automobile industry be without automation? Bill S. said, "The number of winches I've seen that have had no one even look at them in 20 years is astounding." I am sure this is true, but if a theatre does not inspect and maintain its winches, then I would not expect then to inspect and maintain their manually operated systems any more often. A lack of maintenance on any system, manual or automated, creates a dangerous situation. Just some of my thoughts on this. -Delbert ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <9e.bdac747.2debb7fb [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:19:39 EDT Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) In a message dated 29/05/04 03:17:33 GMT Daylight Time, bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com writes: > The entire topic of "Censorship" is an emotionally loaded one True, but it often goes beyond that. It depnds a lot on who is setting the standards, and why. If it is the state for political reasons, it is almost invariably wrong. The whole plot of Verdi's "Ballo in Maschero" had to be transferred to the USA, because it dealt with the assassaination of a King. This, at the time, was not acceptable to the authorities. So, in the UK, until the fifties. The Lord Chancellor (and an official of the Queen's Household, not the country's finacial manager), had the power to require cuts or changes in any book or play. If they were not made, he had the power to ban the publication or production, totally, for 'the protection of public morals', or some such phrase. This lasted until the famous case of Penguin's publication of D.H.Lawrence's novel "Lady Chatterly's Lover". At that, it took a lot of expensive litigation. Personally, having read it as a consequence of the case, I found it to be tedious twaddle. But, here is where it starts getting really difficult. Those weasel words 'the protection of public morals'. Who is to decide what 'public morals' are, or should be? The Church; well, pick which one you like the flavour of. The community as a whole is more difficult. Things change. These days, child pornography is universally condemned. Even having such images on your computer will get you seven years in prison, in the UK. But, go back a way. It was not unusual to the Greeks, and Socrates' brightest student, Phaedo, served his time in a 'boy brothel'. Were I a parent, which I am not, there would be films and pictures that I should prefer that they did not see: books and stories that they did not read. But I should not presume to tell them so. I should hope to have educated them that their tastes did not lie in that direction. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:56:34 EDT Subject: Re: Prepare for an aneurism... In a message dated 30/05/04 16:31:14 GMT Daylight Time, cdavis309 [at] optonline.net writes: > I for one don't think Frank would have a problem with it. And if you do > Frank, let me apologize ahead of time... I don't, but thank you for the thought There is a North Country proverb which runs, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me". Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.0.20040530155612.0386db88 [at] localhost> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:58:22 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) In-Reply-To: References: Welcome back Frank! I know it's been a long time since we talked off the list (or on, for that matter) but we have occasionally agreed on things. Looking forward to unique views from you and others. ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <48.2c78ff75.2debc53d [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 19:16:13 EDT Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) In a message dated 31/05/04 00:06:08 GMT Daylight Time, jdurand [at] interstellar.com writes: > Welcome back Frank! I know it's been a long time since we talked off the > list (or on, for that matter) but we have occasionally agreed on > things. Looking forward to unique views from you and others. Thanks, Jerry. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 01:09:15 +0100 Subject: Re: overhead, over there From: Tony Miller Message-ID: I'm sorry to say this, but It seems to me that the quality of your Production Management was pretty poor. Anyone who undertakes a foreign tour and doesn=B9t check the laws and Health and Safety rules of the countries the= y are going to visit are not quite up to scratch. This may involve samples sent to each venue in advance but please don't assume that because somethin= g is accepted in one state in America it is going to be allowed all over the world. Even in the UK it could be that one local council (which is the licensing authority) will accept something that another will reject. Every one needs to be contacted and their standards checked. It's a pain in the bum but it still needs to be done. Tony Miller. Will Knapp wrote > We went into the Barbican once with a piece that had 9 battens of full wi= dth > tail-down pipes (to hang dimmable flourescents below the borders). >=20 > We had made, at a good expense, about 70 10' long 3/8" cables with a hand > swage on either end to accomplish this, and had performed the piece in a > number of cities including at the Paris Opera. >=20 > Well the English would only accept cable terminations that were rated by = a > certified engineer of some sort. The guy refused to even test our cables,= he > had to remake them himself on some kind of machine. They were VERY > expensive, but man are those swages beautiful and the cables are all EXAC= TLY > the same length. >=20 > I did a show somewhere in Germany once and we brought with us air craft > cable with black plastic sheathing for some kind of tail down trick. They > didn't let us use it because you couldn't inspect the cable. I don't > remember them having an issue with the terminations however. ------------------------------ From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com Message-ID: <8d.c3c99a5.2debd7ac [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 20:34:52 EDT Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) Kevin writes: >Like a theatre company sneaking in a Shakespeare now and again when the >audience really likes Simon. a) Wasn't Shakespeare a "popular" writer in his own time? Not a "classical unities" highbrow fellow. b) It is hard to imagine that much of the contemporary drama catalog will be relevant in 30 years let alone 300. There is simply too little in the way of great universal themes and too great a dearth of intelligent language to survive. As Steeve Vajk astutely observed: >It's a free market, which means you are NOT ENTITLED to make money doing anything. No matter >what you do, it has no intrinsic monetary value. Value only comes from the market. We are free in the USA to attempt almost anything we wish. But I'm afraid that the "Lottery" mentality of our society has permeated the artistic community (music, movies, video, theatre) to the point where many are expecting a jackpot or a cash cow. The best way to cash in is to pander to the lowest common denominator in the marketplace. Where is the art of today that ennobles and lifts and inspires? Steve Vanciel Orlando, FL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:14:09 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Microvision disks? Message-id: <25e46261fa.261fa25e46 [at] ithaca.edu> ----- Original Message ----- From: Herrick Date: Saturday, May 29, 2004 2:47 pm Subject: Microvision disks? > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > So I have 2 Microvision questions: > > 1) do they use HD 1.44 disks or the old (and scarce) 800k disks? I > know > the Vision consoles use the 800k's I have a box of Double Density disks I bought for our Expression before it flaked out on us. I'll pack a few in with the Beam Projector. > 2) the Micro I have apparently dumps the show when we turn it off. > (thus I need to save to disk all the more often) I assume this is > an > issue with the internal drive. Something like a PRAM issue. > Is there an easy fix for this? I can live with it but if it's a > simple > thing I'd like to know. You turn your light board off? What an amazing concept. :) Steve Litterst ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:24:00 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging Message-id: <2d8172b2e1.2b2e12d817 [at] ithaca.edu> ----- Original Message ----- From: Delbert Hall Subject: Counterweight Rigging > 1) Some of the lift lines were tied in clove hitches around the batten > and then terminated with two cable clips. (Since a clove hitch > weakensthe cable by 40%, I would consider this unacceptable). Ick. The only appropriate attachment to the pipe is trim chain or a batten clamp. Trim chain usually has a higher rating. > 2) Some of the cable terminations (around thimbles) only had two cable > clips. (I think at least three cable clips is required for > terminationson 1/4" cable). I'll have to look this up when I get to the office on Tuesday. Our lines only have two clips and Bill didn't throw up any red flags when he inspected us in October. > 3) All of the trim chains used unrated "dog clips" to adjust the trim. > These trim chains did have a "safety bolt" (grade 5 bolt with regular > nut, no washers). So, is it OK to use the cheap "dog clips" if > you use > a "safety bolt?" Do you need a safety bolt if you use a rated > shackle? It's never ok to use "unrated" anything. It's rare I make a sweeping generalization on the list anymore, but I feel pretty comfortable in that one. During our inspection, Bill and I disagreed on whether a piece of hardware was rated. He stopped and called the manufacturer to find out for sure before going on with the inspection. Steve Litterst ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20040530175902.0154cfe0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 17:59:02 From: CB Subject: Re: Prepare for an aneurism... >how would YOU feel if you happened to subscribe to issue #21 and see >some of the comments that were in it made about you? i bet you wouldn't >like it too much. Somehow, I think that Frank might read these comments with a bit of a self satisfied grin. He seemed to enjoy 'stirring it up' a bit. At least, he never backed down form an opportunity... As much as he ticked me off sometimes, I do miss his contributions. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: <112.333838bd.2debeb1f [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:57:51 EDT Subject: Re: Automation Grenade ... careful ... In a message dated 5/30/04 6:19:35 PM, halld [at] etsu.edu writes: << Preset light consoles and electronic dimmer were first introduced in 1932 and were widely used by the 1960's. The BIG exception was in Broadway theatres. As I hear it, Local 1 kept them out because it would only have required one or two operators to run the lights for a show, instead of eight or ten guys running piano boards. The first electronic dimmers were used on Broadway in 1974 (with a computerized console). Can the same logic that Mr. Diaz applied to automation also be applied to lighting (except for the safety part)? I think so. Would Diaz recommend that Broadway theatres go back to piano boards so that more union members will have jobs? Maybe, but I do not think it is lightly that automation is any more in danger than computerized lighting consoles. >> So you are saying that a 3,000 pound scenic piece that is careening around the stage because a cable broke is the same as a blown lighting cue? And please advise where you got the information on the lighting equipment and who told you that local 1 kept the electronic dimmers off Broadway. I was working on Broadway at that time (you are alluding to Chorus Line, which I helped build) I would tend to disagree with that comment. << I assume that most Broadway theatre's electrical systems have been upgraded through the years to accommodate the additional power needed for contemporary lighting. Have the structural aspects of the many theatres also been upgraded to handle the additional loads? I don't know, but I would imagine that many have been. >> Based on what information or evidence? I have personally been involved in the renovation of two Broadway theatres and the construction of another. Structural work is done on an as-needed basis. << Automation has taken away many jobs many industries (not just theatre), but it has created many more jobs for system designers, winch manufacturers, computer programmers, electrical engineers, and hopefully inspectors. Where would the automobile industry be without automation? >> You have missed the point. No one is saying automation should go away. What John, and I are saying is that most producers and production companies do not take care of their equipment properly and that presents a serious safety hazard to everyone, especially stagehands working the show. << Bill S. said, "The number of winches I've seen that have had no one even look at them in 20 years is astounding." I am sure this is true, but if a theatre does not inspect and maintain its winches, then I would not expect then to inspect and maintain their manually operated systems any more often. A lack of maintenance on any system, manual or automated, creates a dangerous situation. >> Having installed several hundred manual counterweight systems over the years, I can say with a degree of certainty that an equipment failure due to lack of maintenance would be hugely more dangerous in a motorized system. First off, manual counterweight systems require almost no maintenance. The things that screw up a manual system are people's abuse of the system. Motorized systems, when they fail, tend to drop large heavy things onto the stage. It doesn't take human intervention to cause a system failure in a motorized system. When they lower the chandelier in Phantom at the 300 fpm or whatever that speed is, just what do you think would happen if a cable broke, or the limit switch failed or a pillow block froze up? You wouldn't even be able to do that stunt with a manual system. Too much weight involved. Bill S. Sapsis Rigging, Inc. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile We stand behind, our work. and under, ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:50:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) Message-ID: <20040530.185640.2616.0.ladesigners [at] juno.com> From: Richard Niederberg What is wrong with that, in our Economic Democracy? /s/ Richard > For approximately the past fifty years the market has > grown explosively as the consumer voted with their dollars. > Steve Vanciel ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:00:33 EDT Subject: Re: overhead, over there In a message dated 5/30/04 8:14:56 PM, tony.miller10 [at] btopenworld.com writes: << I'm sorry to say this, but It seems to me that the quality of your Production Management was pretty poor. Anyone who undertakes a foreign tour and doesn1t check the laws and Health and Safety rules of the countries they are going to visit are not quite up to scratch. This may involve samples sent to each venue in advance but please don't assume that because something is accepted in one state in America it is going to be allowed all over the world. Even in the UK it could be that one local council (which is the licensing authority) will accept something that another will reject. Every one needs to be contacted and their standards checked. It's a pain in the bum but it still needs to be done. >> The arrogance of American production companies is only rivaled by that of American tourists. Bill S. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <40BA9392.9080903 [at] hillinteractive.net> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:08:18 -0400 From: Howie Organization: Hill Interactive Subject: Re: Automation Grenade ... careful ... References: In-Reply-To: Delbert Hall wrote: > > Preset light consoles and electronic dimmer were first introduced in > 1932 and were widely used by the 1960's. The BIG exception was in > Broadway theatres. As I hear it, Local 1 kept them out because it would > only have required one or two operators to run the lights for a show, > instead of eight or ten guys running piano boards. The first electronic > dimmers were used on Broadway in 1974 (with a computerized console). > Can the same logic that Mr. Diaz applied to automation also be applied > to lighting (except for the safety part)? I think so. Would Diaz > recommend that Broadway theatres go back to piano boards so that more > union members will have jobs? Maybe, but I do not think it is lightly > that automation is any more in danger than computerized lighting > consoles. I remember those computer lighting boards in the 1970's. When they crashed (frequently) all the lights would go to full. Imagine hooking one of those up to a dozen 5hp motors dragging scenery around the stage. Local 1 didn't prevent shows from using autotransformer dimmers and preset boards in the 60's and earlier, the DC power supplies of the Broadway houses did. I was the automation carpenter on the revival of Cabaret in 1987. It was one of the first big musicals to troop with computer automated deck winches. I remember in production scenery wagons knocking down actors like bowling pins when the board crashed until we got the bugs straightened out. I remember being yelled at by Hal Prince that the scene change that took 15 seconds with two guys hand cranking winches in 1957 took 45 seconds with 14 motors and a computer in 1987. We eventually got the bugs worked out and ran for two years on Broadway but I have to believe that the designer sold the producers a "bill of goods" with that set. I don't think the computerized version was better than the original. Of course computerized lighting and winches are here to stay. John Diaz knows that. There's too much money in them for the rental & construction shops, too much money to be made setting them up, maintaining them, repairing them, depreciating them. Yeah, it took 6 guys to run a set of piano boards but you couldn't have 400 units of moving lights hooked up to that. Which do YOU think is cheaper for the producers in the long run? It's probably a wash. Does anybody really think that automation has improved theater or made it cheaper or better or anything other than more complicated? ------------------howie ------------------------------ From: Subject: Re: overhead, over there Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:30:55 -0400 Message-Id: <20040531023055.CBY1534.de-fe01.dejazzd.com [at] de-fe01> > please don't assume that because something > is accepted in one state in America it is going to be allowed all over the > world. Or from state to state or even venue to venue within the US. Greg Bierly Hempfield HS ------------------------------ From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com Message-ID: <158.364b0538.2debfab9 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 23:04:25 EDT Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) >What is wrong with that, in our Economic Democracy? >/s/ Richard > For approximately the past fifty years the market has > grown explosively as the consumer voted with their dollars. > Steve Vanciel If money is the only (or the superior) value, nothing is wrong with the model. The rub comes when the consequences of choices freely made are more onerous than expected. Steve Vanciel ------------------------------ From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com Message-ID: <4c.2cc1bca0.2dec01b6 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 23:34:14 EDT Subject: Re: Microvision disks? >Microvision questions... Speaking of old ETC boards --- any ideas out there for the problem of dead VGA monitors? It seems that newer, even multi-sync, monitors cannot cope with the older VGA signal. So, otherwise functional boards around here get disposed of due the lack of monitor displays. Steve Vanciel Orlando, FL ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 00:34:21 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Microvision disks? At 11:34 PM -0400 5/30/04, StevevETTrn [at] aol.com wrote: >Speaking of old ETC boards --- any ideas out there for the problem of dead >VGA monitors? >It seems that newer, even multi-sync, monitors cannot cope with the older VGA >signal. >So, otherwise functional boards around here get disposed of due the lack of >monitor displays. Dunno 'bout where you're at, but around here the second-hand stores are brimming with old VGA screens. -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University Carpe Per Diem ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 23:22:28 -0700 Message-ID: From: Robert Spier Subject: Re: Microvision disks? In-Reply-To: References: > >Microvision questions... > Speaking of old ETC boards --- any ideas out there for the problem > of dead VGA monitors? It seems that newer, even multi-sync, monitors > cannot cope with the older VGA Weren't the old ETC boards generally *EGA* monitors? -R ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #23 ****************************