Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.1.8 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #30 Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 03:00:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #30 1. Guys.. by "Paul Guncheon" 2. Re: Guys.. by Herrick 3. Re: Third Rail Myth (sort of) by "C. Andrew Dunning" 4. plea about format!!!! by Judy 5. Re: plea about format!!!! by "Booth, Dennis" 6. Re: Question about header by "Paul Schreiner" 7. Re: Third Rail Myth (sort of) by Shawn Palmer 8. salt water dimmers by "Karl G. Ruling" 9. Re: salt water dimmers by Stephen Litterst 10. Re: A new perception of box stores by Jerry Durand 11. Re: plea about format!!!! by Noah Price 12. Re: plea about format!!!! by "Booth, Dennis" 13. Re: Third Rail Myth by Bruce Purdy 14. Re: plea about format!!!! by Rigger 15. Re: Third Rail Myth by "Nigel Worsley" 16. Re: Third Rail Myth by Richard Niederberg 17. Re: Counterweight Rigging - terminations by Bruce Purdy 18. Re: Automation Grenade by "Michael Finney" 19. Re: Just don't face upwind! by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 20. Re: Just don't face upwind! by tommy [at] etainternet.com 21. Re: Counterweight systems by Jeff Grande 22. Re: Automation Grenade by "Delbert Hall" 23. Re: Counterweight Rigging by CB 24. Re: Question about header by CB 25. Re: Third Rail Myth by CB 26. Re: Third Rail Myth by CB 27. I'm cranky tonight by Rigger 28. Re: A perception of "bugs" by "Alf Sauve" 29. Re: I'm cranky tonight by "Andy Leviss" 30. Re: I'm cranky tonight by "Sam Fisher" 31. Re: I'm cranky tonight by Rigger 32. Re: I'm cranky tonight by Stuart Wheaton *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <005701c44a24$61a94da0$2a02a8c0 [at] laptop> From: "Paul Guncheon" References: Subject: Guys.. Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 01:09:18 -1000 <> "Because we can."? ("The Stepford Wives" - 1975) Well... they can. Laters, Paul "3.14159" Tom enumerated piously. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 07:42:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Guys.. From: Herrick In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <38E79080-B61C-11D8-995B-0003934521EC [at] hglightingdesign.com> On Friday, Jun 4, 2004, at 07:09 America/New_York, Paul Guncheon wrote: > "3.14159" Tom enumerated piously. AAAAaaaaaaaRRRrggghHHHH!! :) > Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ From: "C. Andrew Dunning" Subject: Re: Third Rail Myth (sort of) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 07:54:23 -0500 Organization: Landru Design In-Reply-To: Message-Id: >I know David quite well (obviously.) I've also seen your >Living Tree the past few Decembers. You ought to stop by and say "hi" next time. We could do a "nickel tour" and a little show-and-tell. Thee might be something of interest hanging up there... >David told quite an amusing story (although he didn't find >quite the same humor as I) involving you, him, a lighting >console and a can of soda. I'm surprised that he'd telling that story. NOT one of our more glorious moments! Thoroughly UNamused was my vendor. (Sorry, Fritz) He was very cool about it but gave me the much-deserved lecture. - Andy ------------------------------ Message-ID: <40C08127.6050607 [at] post.tau.ac.il> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 16:03:19 +0200 From: Judy Subject: plea about format!!!! PLEASE, PLEASE, would it be possible to put the number of the message before the message? The digest form of the list used to be that way. Then, if out of 47 messages when you were in a hurry and you only wanted to read number 35, you didn't have to wade through 34 others till you found it!! Judy ------------------------------ Subject: Re: plea about format!!!! Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 09:09:26 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Booth, Dennis" I agree... there's got to be a better way to sort this list. While I enjoy (sort of) the playful banter and esoteric ramblings, I don't have the time to wade through it all to get the point of the threads. Some of us have to work for a living (sort of)! =20 Well, ok, ok... I don't actually work, just pretend to, really... DGB Dennis Gill Booth, Technical Director North Carolina School of the Arts=20 School of Design and Production=20 1553 South Main Street=20 PO Box 12189=20 Winston-Salem, NC 27117-2189=20 * Voice: (336)770-3232 x127=20 * FAX: (336)770-3213=20 * Email: boothd [at] ncarts.edu=20 * D&P URL: http://www.ncarts.edu/ncsaprod/designandproduction/=20 * Faculty URL: http://faculty.ncarts.edu/dandp/booth/ -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Judy Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 10:03 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: plea about format!!!! For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- PLEASE, PLEASE, would it be possible to put the number of the message=20 before the message? The digest form of the list used to be that way.=20 Then, if out of 47 messages when you were in a hurry and you only wanted to read number 35, you didn't have to wade through 34 others till you=20 found it!! Judy ----------------------------------------------=20 This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content and is believed to be clean. ---------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200406041313.i54DDmVs012883 [at] tshield.longwood.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: Question about header Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 09:13:51 -0400 In-Reply-To: > >"Preview pain" - must be an Outlook user. > > And now every spam writer knows when he previews their > wonderful offers to sell him stuff. :) Not any more... I just had a semi-forced switch to the new Outlook (we're losing our current intradepartmental scheduling software and they want us to use the Outlook calendar feature instead), and there's some setting somewhere (actually a default) that prevents automatic loading of any images unless you indicate that the sender is "safe". Paul Schreiner Technical Director, Longwood University Theatre 434.395.2250 ICQ# 2269284 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <40C075E4.8040406 [at] northnet.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 08:15:16 -0500 From: Shawn Palmer Subject: Re: Third Rail Myth (sort of) References: In-Reply-To: > You ought to stop by and say "hi" next time. We could do a "nickel tour" > and a little show-and-tell. Thee might be something of interest hanging up > there... > >>David told quite an amusing story (although he didn't find >>quite the same humor as I) involving you, him, a lighting >>console and a can of soda. > > > I'm surprised that he'd telling that story. NOT one of our more glorious > moments! Thoroughly UNamused was my vendor. (Sorry, Fritz) He was very > cool about it but gave me the much-deserved lecture. > > - Andy I'll stop by next time... only six months away now! Shawn ------------------------------ From: "Karl G. Ruling" Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 10:40:52 -0400 Subject: salt water dimmers Message-ID: <40C051B4.16578.53A74E5 [at] localhost> In-reply-to: > On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Steeve Vajk wrote: > > > upright, giving you several feet of arc. But in a house old enough > > to use salt water dimmers, odds are pretty good that it's also DC, > > which arcs much easier. Of course, if the tanks are at a > > "convenient" height, > > A couple of things here - salt water dimmers were used in some > theatres through the 1950s and I think they would work better in the > long run with AC than with DC since DC would cause migration of > electrode material in only one direction, which means they would > deteriorate faster than with AC. Also, in order for DC to arc, a > current has to be flowing before it is broken and in order for current > to start flowing when gaps between droplets are consistently present, > the voltage has to be high enough to bridge the gaps, which probably > means thousands of volts. All pretty hypothetical but it could be > researched ;-) Any shock potential would also be dependent on the voltage potential above ground, which might be quite low, virtually zero. The NEC allows resistance dimmers to be installed in the neutral side of a circuit. If this is done with the moving plate of a salt water dimmer connected to the neutral and the bottom plate connected to the load, the electrolyte above the moving plate will always be at the same potential as the neutral, which is ground potential plus whatever minimal voltage drop is in the neutral line. As long as the moving plate is submerged, theoretically you could stick one hand in the top of a salt water dimmer and grab a solid ground with the other and not feel a thing. Salt water dimmers are way cool. They're silent. No EMI, too! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 11:07:41 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: salt water dimmers Message-id: <40C0903D.FF472F37 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: "Karl G. Ruling" wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > Any shock potential would also be dependent on the voltage potential > above ground, which might be quite low, virtually zero. The NEC > allows resistance dimmers to be installed in the neutral side of a > circuit. If this is done with the moving plate of a salt water dimmer > connected to the neutral and the bottom plate connected to the load, > the electrolyte above the moving plate will always be at the same > potential as the neutral, which is ground potential plus whatever > minimal voltage drop is in the neutral line. As long as the moving > plate is submerged, theoretically you could stick one hand in the top > of a salt water dimmer and grab a solid ground with the other and not > feel a thing. I understand the theory and it makes sense to me... but you first, ok? -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.0.20040604082401.02745880 [at] localhost> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 08:25:39 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: A new perception of box stores In-Reply-To: References:

At 02:48 AM 6/4/2004, you wrote: >On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Jerry Durand wrote: > > > A bug is actually a specific type of insect. > >Except when it's in software ;-) > >Charlie Software bugs were named after that moth that was stuck in a relay and then taped in the log book as part of the explanation as to why the computer died. I don't remember the year or the computer...but it was relay logic. some museum has the log book. So, a software bug is really some species of moth. The also eat holes in your code. :) ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <50176655-B644-11D8-B1D3-000A958ABBF8 [at] theprices.net> From: Noah Price Subject: Re: plea about format!!!! Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 09:29:12 -0700 On Jun 4, 2004, at 7:03 AM, Judy wrote: > PLEASE, PLEASE, would it be possible to put the number of the message > before the message? I agree, and I'm working with the server software vendor to see how/when that can be possible. At this point, I have no control over digest message format. I might be able to put the message-ID in the index, so if you're able to copy/find/paste it might be as good. I'm also looking at some changes to the formatting of the digest index, in response to requests I've been sent directly. I want to be sure to see these administrative requests, and I can't always read every message on the list -- Please send me requests, complaints, etc at stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net Thanks, Noah -- | Noah Price | http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ | | Stagecraft Mailing List | Web issues: stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net | | Web site administrator | Personal: noah [at] theprices.net | ------------------------------ Subject: Re: plea about format!!!! Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 12:37:43 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Booth, Dennis" No complaints, really, Noah. Just suggestions! Thanks for all you do, brother. DGB Dennis Gill Booth, Technical Director North Carolina School of the Arts=20 School of Design and Production=20 1553 South Main Street=20 PO Box 12189=20 Winston-Salem, NC 27117-2189=20 * Voice: (336)770-3232 x127=20 * FAX: (336)770-3213=20 * Email: boothd [at] ncarts.edu=20 * D&P URL: http://www.ncarts.edu/ncsaprod/designandproduction/=20 * Faculty URL: http://faculty.ncarts.edu/dandp/booth/ -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Noah Price Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 12:29 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: plea about format!!!! For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ --------------------------------------------------- On Jun 4, 2004, at 7:03 AM, Judy wrote: > PLEASE, PLEASE, would it be possible to put the number of the message=20 > before the message? I agree, and I'm working with the server software vendor to see=20 how/when that can be possible. At this point, I have no control over=20 digest message format. I might be able to put the message-ID in the=20 index, so if you're able to copy/find/paste it might be as good. I'm=20 also looking at some changes to the formatting of the digest index, in=20 response to requests I've been sent directly. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:42:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Third Rail Myth From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > Urinating on a Van de Graf generator is much more fun than on a Jacob's > ladder while both are working. The fun isn't even limited to males! > /s/ Richard Is this the voice of experience?? I know we all come from varied background and experiences, but I have to wonder ..... How do people KNOW these things?? Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 12:43:50 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: plea about format!!!! At 9:29 AM -0700 6/4/04, Noah Price wrote: > Please send me requests, complaints, etc > at stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net Well, okay.... But my complaints have nothing to do with the List. -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University Carpe Per Diem ------------------------------ Message-ID: <5d6a01c44a53$5fc7b100$0200a8c0 [at] Nigellaptop> From: "Nigel Worsley" References: Subject: Re: Third Rail Myth Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:45:41 +0100 FrankWood95 [at] aol.comwrote: > In a message dated 03/06/04 14:49:50 GMT Daylight Time, rcarovil [at] sju.edu > writes: > > > The myth about urinating on the third rail was featured on the show > > mythbusters. From what they determined it is pretty hard for you to get > any > > kind of shock/electrocution from it. They had to have the test dummy > > touching the rail with both hands and urinate on it from several inches > away > > in order to acheive their desired outcome. > > Well, the third rail is 600V above ground, or so, and urine is a fair > conductor. But it all depends on your ground connection. Heavy rubber soled boots or > shoes, no problem. Barefoot on the ballast, I like it less. Time to put your shoes on then! In the UK the third rail is actually at 750V normally. The London Underground ( which uses a fourth middle rail for the return instead of the running rails ) uses 660V, which causes a few issues when sharing track with the 750V trains. The 'ground' rail is actually running at 90V, to ensure that both types of train see the correct voltage ( or so I have been told by someone who works on the underground ). In the past 630V, 650V and 1200V have also been used, but I believe that these have all now been withdrawn and replaced with 750V or are no longer 3rd rail. Wonderful things, standards! Nigel Worsley ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 10:12:49 -0700 Subject: Re: Third Rail Myth Message-ID: <20040604.101407.3728.0.ladesigners [at] juno.com> From: Richard Niederberg I caught two female high school students giggling while 'vandalizing' the aforementioned equipment in the aforementioned manner. The equipment was on the floor of a storage room and they somehow found an extension cord and plugged them in. I made them thoroughly clean up their mess, as well as the rest of the storage room, but did not inform the campus police of their transgression. We need all the ADA that we can get! /s/ Richard > > Urinating on a Van de Graf generator is much more fun > > than on a Jacob's ladder while both are working. The fun > > isn't even limited to males! > > /s/ Richard > Is this the voice of experience?? > I know we all come from varied background and experiences, > but I have to wonder ..... How do people KNOW these things?? > Bruce ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 13:18:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging - terminations From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: >> Do others use chain or baton clamps for hanging scenery as well? > > We terminate the wire rope into a thimble, and use chain around the > batten. If the attachment will be in sight (in our arena theatre) > I'll use a batten clamp. Thanks to all of you who responded to my question. I guess 18" pieces of rated chain will be added to my shopping list. I'm always willing to learn. I already switched from tape to ribbons for spiking my Fly lines. This Stagecraft list is great! Thank you all! Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Automation Grenade Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 10:22:42 -0700 Message-ID: From: "Michael Finney" On 3 Jun 2004, FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: <> <> Welcome back, Frank! (BTW: I fully intend to steal your comment from the other day: "...cast iron (is) unreliable in tension" - a *great* turn of phrase!)(and I think I'll add "timbers are sometimes erratic in their response to side loads")(my father (the *serious* structural engineer) *loved* your whole description of bridges). BUT, I'm going to disagree with you a bit about equipment cost related to automation in theatre. Please bear in mind that I spend a huge amount of my time in a world (design of themed attractions) where automation isn't just a good idea, it's pretty much a necessity - because getting human beings to move the size weights we work with repeatedly over 12-14 hour operating days without breaks and with short reset times (under 1 minute typically) just isn't practical. I can't speak to European air traffic control systems, but I can say that the American system consists of a truly stupid collection of legacy systems, obsolete systems, and badly repurposed systems...many of them installed in facilities that were never intended to handle this much electronic equipment. Wiring, power supplies, facility shielding, etc. *all* tend to be sub-standard (for contemporary installations). The amount of code that has been hacked together to get the system working is amazing...if not necessarily very elegant or robust. Many of the "fixes" that were implemented were implemented by people within the system - not necessarily people with "state of the art" knowledge. All the usual reasons apply - bad budgets, slow response times by bureaucracies, different managers with "control issues", etc. The whole system is *supposed* to be replaced, but the specs that are circulating for the replacement systems reflect equipment that is *already* obsolete (and has been for years). Welcome to the joys of working with any large organization....with the possible exception of DARPA (and a couple of other "special purpose" procurement organizations within the military and emergency response community), governments tend to *not* respond quickly to newly available technology in the general marketplace. Ironically enough, our size in the entertainment industry works *for* us in this case. The number of truly user-friendly motor controllers and sensor systems available "off the shelf" give us access to equipment that can be used to design robust and life-safety compliant automated/motorized systems that would *not* have been economically feasible 10 years ago. In many cases, as a small organization we can react more quickly and procure both the equipment and the expertise (say, for instance, a good EE/Industrial Automation student), where a large governmental agency would take *years* to respond to the same challenge. Heck, as an individual, I could run out to one of my local suppliers (say, Grainger) and put all the components for a simple motorized/automated system on my credit card (I'm cheating a bit - I *do* already know what bits to buy...). I'm oversimplifying here in the interest of trying to make it clear that this is not "rocket science" equipment - but automation equipment has fairly thoroughly penetrated the general industrial market. My only comment on motorized/automated system design is that the key is that it must be a *complete* system, with position sensing, load sensing (even if it's just a case of the motor controller sensing an "over-amp" condition when the load increases beyond a set limit and shutting the system down appropriately), properly designed (and installed and maintained) hard and soft limits, properly engineered mechanical and structural systems, properly engineered and implemented operator safety equipment and protocols, etc. etc. Just slapping a hoist motor onto a load is *not* a good example of an automated system...'cause it isn't really an "automated system" - it's just replacing a bunch of human beings with a motor. An *automated* system is a whole other critter. And we *can* afford that equipment and expertise, in many cases. =20 Personally, I doubt that automated stage systems are going to disappear - and I certainly sympathize with the sentiments expressed in the article that started this string. *But* I'd also say that Local 1 has one hell of a track record in retraining their people to respond to this sort of challenge. And I'd hope that (rather than just railing against the onslaught of automation) that they'd start pushing the producers for increased engineering standards, safety/operating standards, etc. I think ESTA is a great resource to keep that moving forward - but I think we can bring it to the attention of producers/owners even *before* it's an official "standard" (we're already implementing that in our Requests for Proposals to machinery vendors). Just my 2 Dirham..... Michael Finney Thinkwell Design & Production mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com =20 http://www.thinkwelldesign.com =20 ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <4f.3f174fe8.2df20c46 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 13:32:54 EDT Subject: Re: Just don't face upwind! In a message dated 04/06/04 06:23:36 GMT Daylight Time, steeve_vajk [at] yahoo.com writes: > But in a house old enough to > use salt water dimmers, odds are pretty good that it's also DC, which > arcs much easier. Does anyone still use them? I remember them from my schooldays. I also remember a mad chief electrician. Ours were rather prone to drop the plate off the winch wire. WITHOUT SWITCHING OFF, he would fish in the pot, and hang it back on. He survived, and went on to take a First Class honours degree in Physics at the University of Manchester, and a Ph.D. What would we say about such a course of conduct these days? Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <61060.206.116.74.9.1086370849.squirrel [at] etainternet.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 10:40:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Just don't face upwind! From: tommy [at] etainternet.com > For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending > your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: > http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ > --------------------------------------------------- > What would we say about such a course of conduct > these days? > "Resistance is futile!" said Tom ominously. Tom ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: Jeff Grande Subject: Re: Counterweight systems Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 11:04:14 -0700 I have always thought that some "middle ground" might be appropriate for the retrofit of existing counterweight systems. There could be several versions depending on the available budget. The basic idea would be to place a loop of roller chain around the back of the arbor similar to the way the hand line works around the front. That is, the chain would loop from the bottom of the arbor down through a "Floor Block Gizmo (FBG)", up the back of the guide track/cables over a head block to the top of the arbor. The options would be the "FBG". The basic assumption is that the roller chain would be sized so that the maximum load could be carried by the chain and that the "FBG" was sufficiently anchored to the floor/lock rail structure to resist the load as well. The most basic "Option" for the "FBG" would be a speed limiter device that would prevent "runaways" in either direction. The next option for the "FBG" could be the addition of a two speed gearbox and low power motor that could safely facilitate the loading process. In "low speed/setup" mode the motor could lift a fully loaded batten in a controlled fashion to allow the weight to be added/adjusted at ground level. Once the lineset was balanced the gearbox could be switched to "High Speed/Run" mode for "Normal Operation". Because the loads are intended to be basically balanced the motor could be torque limited to stop in an out of balance condition. The simplest control would be to place single speed up/down contacts on the "hand line". Additional options would be variable speed manual all the way up the show control ladder. Of course all of the limit and e-stop and other safety devices would need to be included. The advantages are that all of the existing infrastructure are being re-used, and the system is still operation in an inherently "balanced" fashion. The "FBG"'s would all be at stage level therefore allowing easy access for inspection and maintenance. The investment in total weights would remain the same and overall safety could be improved. Your wise thoughts and critique are welcome! Jeff Grande TD and General Manager Junior University Family Theater ------------------------------ From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Automation Grenade Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 14:09:15 -0400 Organization: ETSU Message-ID: <000301c44a5f$0fc2a6e0$6400a8c0 [at] delbert> In-Reply-To: Well said Michael. -Delbert -----Original Message----- Ironically enough, our size in the entertainment industry works *for* us in this case. The number of truly user-friendly motor controllers and sensor systems available "off the shelf" give us access to equipment that can be used to design robust and life-safety compliant automated/motorized systems that would *not* have been economically feasible 10 years ago. In many cases, as a small organization we can react more quickly and procure both the equipment and the expertise (say, for instance, a good EE/Industrial Automation student), where a large governmental agency would take *years* to respond to the same challenge. Heck, as an individual, I could run out to one of my local suppliers (say, Grainger) and put all the components for a simple motorized/automated system on my credit card (I'm cheating a bit - I *do* already know what bits to buy...). I'm oversimplifying here in the interest of trying to make it clear that this is not "rocket science" equipment - but automation equipment has fairly thoroughly penetrated the general industrial market. My only comment on motorized/automated system design is that the key is that it must be a *complete* system, with position sensing, load sensing (even if it's just a case of the motor controller sensing an "over-amp" condition when the load increases beyond a set limit and shutting the system down appropriately), properly designed (and installed and maintained) hard and soft limits, properly engineered mechanical and structural systems, properly engineered and implemented operator safety equipment and protocols, etc. etc. Just slapping a hoist motor onto a load is *not* a good example of an automated system...'cause it isn't really an "automated system" - it's just replacing a bunch of human beings with a motor. An *automated* system is a whole other critter. And we *can* afford that equipment and expertise, in many cases. Personally, I doubt that automated stage systems are going to disappear - and I certainly sympathize with the sentiments expressed in the article that started this string. *But* I'd also say that Local 1 has one hell of a track record in retraining their people to respond to this sort of challenge. And I'd hope that (rather than just railing against the onslaught of automation) that they'd start pushing the producers for increased engineering standards, safety/operating standards, etc. I think ESTA is a great resource to keep that moving forward - but I think we can bring it to the attention of producers/owners even *before* it's an official "standard" (we're already implementing that in our Requests for Proposals to machinery vendors). Just my 2 Dirham..... Michael Finney Thinkwell Design & Production mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com http://www.thinkwelldesign.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20040604145430.0168cb58 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 14:54:30 From: CB Subject: Re: Counterweight Rigging >Xylophone went to music heaven. It'd have been the first... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20040604150318.0168cb58 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 15:03:18 From: CB Subject: Re: Question about header >Yes it does - for those of us who use preview pain the only thing we ever >see is the message and never the subject line Well, some of us digest users have been asking some of the single post users to trim their posts for the last two years, and there seems to be little concern in that area to make our lives run easier. People in glass houses... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20040604145844.0168cb58 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 14:58:44 From: CB Subject: Re: Third Rail Myth >Does anyone else think it odd that a few days ago there was a complaint >about wasting bandwidth talking about console disks - and now peeing on >things electrical is being discussed?????? A spoonul of sugar helps the medicine go down. Hey, Stagehands bitch. Its what we do when were waiting, after the hurry-up part. Its when we STOP citching that you need to worry. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20040604145844.0168cb58 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 14:58:44 From: CB Subject: Re: Third Rail Myth >Does anyone else think it odd that a few days ago there was a complaint >about wasting bandwidth talking about console disks - and now peeing on >things electrical is being discussed?????? A spoonul of sugar helps the medicine go down. Hey, Stagehands bitch. Its what we do when were waiting, after the hurry-up part. Its when we STOP citching that you need to worry. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 22:30:21 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: I'm cranky tonight At 3:03 PM -0400 6/4/04, CB wrote: >Well, some of us digest users have been asking some of the single post >users to trim their posts for the last two years, and there seems to be >little concern in that area to make our lives run easier. People in glass >houses... In point of fact, some of us single-message users have been asking the same thing. There's damn few things that makes a user look more stupid than quoting a seven-paragraph message in its entirety, just to toss a one-line "me too"-type reply onto it - and top-posting their reply, while they're at it - except *possibly* one of you digest-readers quoting a whole damn digest for a one-line reply... You who do this - and you all know who you are - are idiots. You deserve crippleware like Outlook, and Outlook deserves you. Now then; as far as the Topic Police go, I ask again: is it time for my quasi-annual "stagehand's tavern" post again? -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University yes, I'm cranky tonight. what's it to ya? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <0d0b01c44aa7$2ff31470$0600a8c0 [at] alf> From: "Alf Sauve" References:

Subject: Re: A perception of "bugs" Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 22:40:56 -0400 Not to draw too fine a point, but the "bug" you refer to was more of a firmware bug, than a software bug. That bug, the one found in the relay of "Mark II" computer, is generally credited with being the first "computer" bug. However the term was used prior to that for any hardware engineering glitch. Some sources point to Thomas Edison as having the first documented use of the term to mean a glitch or error. That was in the late 1800s. Well before Eniac. On a similar note, a great book about the Eniac is "Eniac, The Triumphs and Tragedies of the World's First Computer" by Scott McCartney. Great piece of history on Eniac. Though by my definition of a computer, Eniac was merely a reconfigurable series of hardware/firmware computational modules. Alf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Durand" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 11:25 AM Subject: Re: A new perception of box stores > For info on subscribing, unsubscribing, and suspending > your list subscription, go to the Stagecraft web site at: > http://stagecraft.theprices.net/ > --------------------------------------------------- > > > At 02:48 AM 6/4/2004, you wrote: > >On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Jerry Durand wrote: > > > > > A bug is actually a specific type of insect. > > > >Except when it's in software ;-) > > > >Charlie > > Software bugs were named after that moth that was stuck in a relay and then > taped in the log book as part of the explanation as to why the computer > died. I don't remember the year or the computer...but it was relay > logic. some museum has the log book. > > So, a software bug is really some species of moth. The also eat holes in > your code. :) > > > ---------- > Jerry Durand > Durand Interstellar, Inc. > 219 Oak Wood Way > Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA > tel: +1 408 356-3886 > fax: +1 408 356-4659 > web: www.interstellar.com > > ------------------------------ From: "Andy Leviss" Subject: Re: I'm cranky tonight Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 22:58:51 -0400 Message-ID: <002901c44aa9$08e4fe50$f8088eac [at] AndyLeviss> In-Reply-To: > There's damn few things that makes a user look more > stupid than quoting a seven-paragraph message in its entirety, just > to toss a one-line "me too"-type reply onto it - and top-posting > their reply, while they're at it - except *possibly* one of you > digest-readers quoting a whole damn digest for a one-line reply... I can think of one thing: those who quote the whole seven paragraphs, and then follow up their "me too" with a thirty line signature. --Andy "the short but catchy sig guy" Leviss --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.682 / Virus Database: 444 - Release Date: 5/11/2004 ------------------------------ From: "Sam Fisher" Subject: Re: I'm cranky tonight Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 23:02:01 -0400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "I can think of one thing: those who quote the whole seven paragraphs, and then follow up their "me too" with a thirty line signature." --Andy "the short but catchy sig guy" Leviss Oh - you mean Doom. Sam Fisher ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 23:09:17 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: I'm cranky tonight At 11:02 PM -0400 6/4/04, Sam Fisher wrote: >> I can think of one thing: those who quote the whole seven paragraphs, >> and then follow up their "me too" with a thirty line signature." > > Oh - you mean Doom. He's far from the only one. -- Dave Vick, IATSE #274 Head Electrician, The Wharton Center for Performing Arts at Michigan State University Carpe Per Diem ------------------------------ Message-ID: <40C13EA8.5010303 [at] fuse.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 23:31:52 -0400 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Re: I'm cranky tonight References: In-Reply-To: Sam Fisher wrote: > "I can think of one thing: those who quote the whole seven paragraphs, > and then follow up their "me too" with a thirty line signature." > > --Andy "the short but catchy sig guy" Leviss > > Oh - you mean Doom. When did Doom cut his .sig down to only 30 lines? I must have missed it! Stuart ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #30 ****************************