Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.1.8 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #40 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 03:00:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #40 1. Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) by FREDERICK W FISHER 2. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by FREDERICK W FISHER 3. Resistance is Futile! was: VLPS and PRG Merge by Herrick 4. Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) by Richard Niederberg 5. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by Rigger 6. Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) by IAEG [at] aol.com 7. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by Mick Alderson 8. Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat [now very] OT) by MissWisc [at] aol.com 9. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by Steeve Vajk 10. Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 11. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by "Tony Deeming" 12. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 13. Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) by "Tony Deeming" 14. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 15. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by Fred Fisher 16. Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 17. Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) by Fred Fisher 18. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by Fred Fisher 19. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by "Ian Cunningham" 20. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 21. Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 22. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by Stuart Wheaton 23. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by MissWisc [at] aol.com 24. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by Stuart Wheaton 25. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 26. Re: Carriage Bolts (was...Peanuts)(I like them boiled) by "Alf Sauve" 27. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by "Tony Deeming" 28. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by "Joe Meils" 29. ETC Goes Silent by "Michael Eddy" 30. ETC goes Silent by "Michael Eddy" 31. Re: Stagehand bar type question... by CB 32. Re: fire extinguishers (was Nightingales) by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 33. Re: Stagehand bar type question... by "Tony Deeming" 34. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by "Julie Fox" 35. Re: Peanuts, etc.... by "Tony Deeming" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 07:10:45 -0500 From: FREDERICK W FISHER Subject: Re: Food for thought... discuss as you please. ;) Message-id: <80b32480ba58.80ba5880b324 [at] wiscmail.wisc.edu> > Dick A. writes: > >Under the current rules anyone in this country can be arrested, > if they feel > like it. > > Or, in other words, Everything that is not mandatory is > prohibited and > Anything that is not prohibited is mandatory! ??Are we there > yet?? Close. > > Steve V > Orl, FL I think what Dick is commenting on is the ultra reactionaries like George Bush, Dick Cheney and their running dogs in the gov't and in business are succeeding in their goal of repealing the Bill of Rights. Fred Fisher ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 07:14:34 -0500 From: FREDERICK W FISHER Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... Message-id: <7e332f7e296b.7e296b7e332f [at] wiscmail.wisc.edu> Joe Meils wrote: > As much as I hate to interrupt this neo-con Limbaugh-esque rant.... Hear, hear! Fred F. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 09:31:14 -0400 Subject: Resistance is Futile! was: VLPS and PRG Merge From: Herrick In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Yeah I'm starting to get pretty pissed at that Harris guy. This used to be a family business. Ah well. Hopefully our friends at both companies will try to remember the little folks. On Saturday, Jun 12, 2004, at 15:59 America/New_York, Michael Eddy wrote: > > Big doings, PRG and VLPS have merged. > > Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ Cc: psyd [at] cox.net Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 06:23:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) Message-ID: <20040613.062958.3612.0.ladesigners [at] juno.com> From: Richard Niederberg For new theatres, you might be surprised as to how often wheelchair access to and ACROSS the grid had been demanded by local inspectors. /s/ Richard > ... and made the comment "How can a blind person > drive?" The response was that those drive-ins are > used by people on bikes in addition to autos. > Kristi ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 09:40:14 -0400 From: Rigger Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... At 11:56 PM -0500 6/12/04, Joe Meils wrote: > As much as I hate to interrupt this neo-con Limbaugh-esque rant.... I prefer to think of myself as more of a P.J. O'Rourke than a Limbaugh... What was the old saying? "Anyone who isn't a Liberal at age 18 has no heart, and anyone who hasn't turned Conservative by age 30 has no brain", or something like that? -DV ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <8c.d4b373c.2dfdb56c [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 09:49:32 EDT Subject: Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) In a message dated 6/13/04 9:33:55 AM, ladesigners [at] juno.com writes: << For new theatres, you might be surprised as to how often wheelchair access to and ACROSS the grid had been demanded by local inspectors. /s/ Richard >> Richard, what is the response to that? is that actually what ADA calls for ? or is that a individual call of the inspector? appealable? appropriate in an educational facility but not required in a "road house" ? very best, Keith Arsenault President IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida 813 831 3465 Mr. Arsenault's Office 813 205 0893 Mr. Arsenault's Cellular www.iaeginc.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <40CC812D.80509 [at] uwosh.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 11:30:37 -0500 From: Mick Alderson Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... Rigger wrote: > > Sandy wrote: > > >>> > > > > OK, enough... Reality lives somewhere south of your post and north > of the post you're responding to. > > I dare say that for the lion's share of the members of this list, the > presence of antibiotics has long made death-by-common-cold and > death-by-not-washing-your-hands a bit of historical trivia. Hell, > they've only been around for what, fifty years now? I know when I was > growing up, the only thing that could (and would) kill me for not > washing my hands was my mom. What the heck was THIS rant about? Sometimes Digest mode seems to drop a message or two, but I can usually make sense of a response from the bit of included "previouse message". You trimmed SO aggressively that I have no idea what you are responding to. I couldn't even find a message from a Sandy in the last couple days' Digests! -- Mick Alderson TD, Fredric March Theatre University of Wis. Oshkosh ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <12e.440652df.2dfe2168 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:30:16 EDT Subject: Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat [now very] OT) In a message dated 6/13/4 8:33:55 AM, ladesigners [at] juno.com wrote: <> No surprise to me at all. A local theatre has a wheelchair lift to get from lobby level to the level of the tech booth - about 3' higher. Thing is, if you were in a wheelchair once you got to the top position of the lift, there's not enough room in the booth itself to maneuver a chair off the lift and around the corner to get to either the light or sound board - both of which need to be operated by someone standing or sitting on a stool so they can see the board and the stage. The lift meets ADA requirements but makes no sense from a practical standpoint. Fred said teachers have the best interests of kids at heart rather than looking at lawsuits and I'd agree most do. He sees college students and his wife sees pre-school. My experience is with K-12 in that town. I just attended a graduation party there. Many of the kids present are former students of mine. One of the kids was having trouble getting to a certain class on time this past school year. The kid was being bullied and was assaulted several times by a mentally ill child - the mentally ill child was never punished for it. His "disability" is responsible for the behavior so the school can't do anything. The principal told the well child that he had to take a longer route to get to class because the mentally ill kid was taking the shorter route and there was nothing the school could do to make the mentally ill kid behave because they're not allowed to touch him or discipline him. The dad of the well child threatened to take it to the papers and/or sue. By the end of the day a different route was found for the mentally ill kid. Same family... youngest child is in elementary school. She wasn't allowed to bring cupcakes or candy for her birthday because one of her classmates has diabetes. This was the same school one of my autistic students was moved to because he was mastrubating in class. They moved him to to that school so could have a private place to mastrubate. No one suggested he should learn to controll that urge. I was on the advisory board for children's programming for the big theatre there. We spent the better part of a day debating what to do with kids misbehaving at performances. (I can hear my fellow listies saying "WHAT!!! That would take about 2 seconds for me to decide!") My first response was "Do whatever you have to so they are out of the theatre/no longer disturbing the performance." But the ADA people from the school district insisted that ALL children have a federally mandated right to participate in educational performances so they must be allowed to be present even if that means they are disruptive. The decision was that the police department would have an officer within 5 minutes of the building so that if one of these "untouchable" kids threw a fit, the cops could come and get him. In each of those cases, the decision was made to avoid a potential lawsuit. It's this kind of crap that helped me decide to leave Fred's hometown and raise my son in something reselbling normalcy. My friends recently moved to to a neighboring city to put their kids in different schools for next year. Oh..and did I mention... this is the school district that was rated #1 in the USA by Money magazine a few years ago??? Kristi ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20040613223702.6046.qmail [at] web41602.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 15:37:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Steeve Vajk Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... In-Reply-To: As someone with a (not so) unusual food allergy to wheat/flour/barley/etc, I have never expected others to limit themselves for my sake. However, I fully expect anyone who offers food to anyone not in their family, commercially or privately, to know what it's made out of. If you can't tell me what's in it, you should have no right to sell it. You wouldn't BELIEVE how much stuff has wheat products in it. And don't trust the FDA labels. Candybar makers often use wheat flour on conveyor belts so they don't stick, but, since it's not considered an "ingredient", it's not on the label. And if peanut flour is cheaper this month, they're free to use it this month. WTF?!?! So, with that being considered acceptable practice, I don't think getting a little huffy about an allergy that could kill you is at all inappropriate. And I'd just like to say, I LOVE Baskin-Robbins! Not because their ice cream is better than anyone else, but because they are the ONLY place I've gone to that made it so easy to trust the content of their products. They even make the distinction between wheat and gluten. steeve_vajk [at] yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1a4.2506f176.2dfe3404 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:49:40 EDT Subject: Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) In a message dated 13/06/04 14:33:55 GMT Daylight Time, ladesigners [at] juno.com writes: > For new theatres, you might be surprised as to how often wheelchair > access to and ACROSS the grid had been demanded by local inspectors. Some years ago, we dropped off in a big way. We installed a lift, to give wheelchair users access to the foyer and to the bar. If only we had taken it one level higher!, to the control room level. Lighting and sound operations are two sedentary and responsible jobs suitable for a wheelchair user. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <006601c45198$e1223210$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:50:52 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steeve Vajk" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 11:37 PM Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > As someone with a (not so) unusual food allergy to > wheat/flour/barley/etc, I have never expected others to limit > themselves for my sake. However, I fully expect anyone who offers food > to anyone not in their family, commercially or privately, to know what > it's made out of. If you can't tell me what's in it, you should have no > right to sell it. You wouldn't BELIEVE how much stuff has wheat > products in it. > steeve_vajk [at] yahoo.com > Steve, I have to say that sounds a little selfish of you, with the greatest possible respect. Can you REALLY expect everyone else to be able to know exactly what's in everything they might offer you or sell you, on the basis that it 'might' do you some harm? Surely, as a responsible adult, that responsibility falls squarely with yourself? You surely should make it clear to anyone that doesn't know you personally that certain things may harm you, and ask whether their products/meals/whatever have any chance of containing such? I know it isn't your fault you have the allergy problem, but it certainly is no-one else's, but no-one can be expected to be a mind-reader, nor can they, as producers or vendors etc, be expected to stop using some ingredients because of what amounts to a small percentage of their customers?. Yes, I agree hat packaging can and should be explicit, but there'll come a day when the ingredients list is larger than the description of the item! Ynot ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: <4c.2d4cad68.2dfe3594 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:56:20 EDT Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Oh how I long for the days of discussions when we discussed sorting screws...... Bill S. Sapsis Rigging, Inc. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile We stand behind, our work. and under, ------------------------------ Message-ID: <007d01c45199$ea58a2a0$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:58:17 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 11:49 PM Subject: Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 13/06/04 14:33:55 GMT Daylight Time, ladesigners [at] juno.com > writes: > > > For new theatres, you might be surprised as to how often wheelchair > > access to and ACROSS the grid had been demanded by local inspectors. > > Some years ago, we dropped off in a big way. We installed a lift, to give > wheelchair users access to the foyer and to the bar. If only we had taken it one > level higher!, to the control room level. Lighting and sound operations are > two sedentary and responsible jobs suitable for a wheelchair user. > > > Frank Wood There would still be a limit, though, as in most venues I know, the operators need to be on stools to give the best view of the stage whilst having full access to the desks. Ynot ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1ec.22bd86f4.2dfe3949 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 19:12:09 EDT Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... In a message dated 13/06/04 23:52:39 GMT Daylight Time, deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes: > Steve, I have to say that sounds a little selfish of you, with the greatest > possible respect. > Can you REALLY expect everyone else to be able to know exactly what's in > everything they might offer you or sell you, on the basis that it 'might' do > you some harm? I don't think it unreasonable that food manufacturers should say precisely what is in their product. Waitrose, in particular, are very good at putting up notices sayng "Warning. This product may contain traces of nuts", for example. Certainly, when I invite someone for dinner, I should expect to be informed of any allergic reactions, and should arrange the cooking accordingly. Given the time when they were made, many of the kashrut (kosher) rules made sense. Even today, shellfish can occasionally be dodgy. I have personally been laid low by a mussel, and more recently by an oyster. Undercooked pork presents hazards, too. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:04:01 -0500 From: Fred Fisher Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... Message-id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040613174450.00bc2f00 [at] wiscmail.wisc.edu> My understanding of ADA regulations in reference to existing facilities is that they only have to be reasonably accessible. I work in a 70 year old building that has lots of inaccessible areas. We correct them as we can when we remodel but we can't eliminate all of them. I'm sorry Kristi had an unpleasant time when she was a teacher here in Madison. We moved here from an area about three hours NE (Fish Creek) of where Kristi is now because the school was small, all white, all Christian, very conservative and the students arrogant and criminal. We wanted our children to grow up in a diverse culture. No place is perfect and you have to go with what you are looking for. We have adapted to the situation here and it has had a great effect on our children. If we have problems at school. we work with the administration to correct it. Our children can easily avoid interaction with the arrogant and criminal amongst their classmates. Lots more art opportunities available to them here too. My youngest will go to a high school that has two theaters and pursue her passion. Fred ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 19:25:09 EDT Subject: Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) In a message dated 13/06/04 23:59:33 GMT Daylight Time, deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes: > There would still be a limit, though, as in most venues I know, the > operators need to be on stools to give the best view of the stage whilst > having full access to the desks. In 1964, when we built the theatre, and subsequently, as we have changed systems, we planned better. When I operate lights or sound, I do so from a standard office chair, such as the one I am sitting on now. The lighting control lies to my left, the house lights fader and squawk box half right. Fully right, and well away from the equipment, is the beer shelf. Dead in front, is an adequate space for my scripts. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:09:25 -0500 From: Fred Fisher Subject: Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) In-reply-to: Message-id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040613180529.00baae30 [at] wiscmail.wisc.edu> References: >There would still be a limit, though, as in most venues I know, the >operators need to be on stools to give the best view of the stage whilst >having full access to the desks. > >Ynot I'm happy to say that our control positions are easily wheelchair accessable and the desks are always operated from chair height. Fred Fisher ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:15:13 -0500 From: Fred Fisher Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... Message-id: <5.2.1.1.2.20040613181043.00bc2f00 [at] wiscmail.wisc.edu> Bill, you surely have noticed that during certain times of the year, production is slow and the list rambles on and on about non- practical topics. But old friends do that. BTW, I don't sort screws. Use 'em once, throw them out. Fred ------------------------------ Message-ID: <032101c451a0$ef9feff0$0202a8c0 [at] laptop> From: "Ian Cunningham" References:

Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:48:05 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Deeming" IN REPLY TO > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steeve Vajk" <> > As someone with a (not so) unusual food allergy to > > wheat/flour/barley/etc, I have never expected others to limit > > themselves for my sake. However, I fully expect anyone who offers food > > to anyone not in their family, commercially or privately, to know what > > it's made out of. If you can't tell me what's in it, you should have no > > right to sell it. You wouldn't BELIEVE how much stuff has wheat > > products in it. > > steeve_vajk [at] yahoo.com > > > > Steve, I have to say that sounds a little selfish of you, with the greatest > possible respect. > Can you REALLY expect everyone else to be able to know exactly what's in > everything they might offer you or sell you, on the basis that it 'might' do > you some harm? > Surely, as a responsible adult, that responsibility falls squarely with > yourself? > You surely should make it clear to anyone that doesn't know you personally > that certain things may harm you, and ask whether their > products/meals/whatever have any chance of containing such? Yes but its then down to the supplier to give the information and if its commercial then, as Steeve said, they bloody well should know whats in their products. Steeve can't be expected to know *their* products - his action as a "responible adult" is to find out the information he needs and then act upon it (or act upon the lack of information) > I know it isn't your fault you have the allergy problem, but it certainly is > no-one else's, but no-one can be expected to be a mind-reader, nor can they, > as producers or vendors etc, be expected to stop using some ingredients > because of what amounts to a small percentage of their customers?. Yes, I > agree hat packaging can and should be explicit, but there'll come a day when > the ingredients list is larger than the description of the item! I don't think Steeve is looking for anything other than the information that he needs to make informed descisions My brother's a type1 diabetic so the carbohydrate content of food is important to him. It used to be a major problem getting served "full-fat" soft drinks rather than sugar free - that has major implications for his control (a can of coke has about as much carbohydrate as a full meal) Food labeling has come a long way since he was diagnosed (about 15 years ago) we used to need a book that listed the carbohydrate content of foods as the packaging often did not carry it - basics like bread, potatoes you know but anything maufactured needs to supply the information. I agree that banning certain ingredients would be daft but the information that people need to make their own descisions MUST be comunicated to the consumer eg by labeling. This is especially inportant when dealing with issues such as peanut alergy which can and does cause death Ian Cunningham Solus Technical Services ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:13:44 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01c451a4$75769a90$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: An excellent idea and one that protects you from certain liability. Throw the used ones out. Doomster ==================================================== THE FIRST NATIONAL CONGRESS ON HEALTH AND SAFETY FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS IN THE SECONDARY SCHOOLS - Sponsored by ISETSA June 25, 26, 27, 2004 at Cardinal Stritch University, Milwaukee, Wisconsin ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Fred Fisher Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 4:15 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Bill, you surely have noticed that during certain times of the year, production is slow and the list rambles on and on about non- practical topics. But old friends do that. BTW, I don't sort screws. Use 'em once, throw them out. Fred ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 17:16:26 -0700 Message-ID: <002c01c451a4$d6c94ea0$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: I do recall one very large performing facility where an elevator was installed and a very large path around the grid, so that one could use a wheelchair. doomster ==================================================== THE FIRST NATIONAL CONGRESS ON HEALTH AND SAFETY FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS IN THE SECONDARY SCHOOLS - Sponsored by ISETSA June 25, 26, 27, 2004 at Cardinal Stritch University, Milwaukee, Wisconsin ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Tony Deeming Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 3:58 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 11:49 PM Subject: Re: Braille Sign (Somewhat OT) > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 13/06/04 14:33:55 GMT Daylight Time, ladesigners [at] juno.com > writes: > > > For new theatres, you might be surprised as to how often wheelchair > > access to and ACROSS the grid had been demanded by local inspectors. > > Some years ago, we dropped off in a big way. We installed a lift, to give > wheelchair users access to the foyer and to the bar. If only we had taken it one > level higher!, to the control room level. Lighting and sound operations are > two sedentary and responsible jobs suitable for a wheelchair user. > > > Frank Wood There would still be a limit, though, as in most venues I know, the operators need to be on stools to give the best view of the stage whilst having full access to the desks. Ynot ------------------------------ Message-ID: <40CCF4FC.6080304 [at] fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:44:44 -0400 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... References: In-Reply-To: Steve is absolutely right that manufacturers should label things with every ingredient. And every additive. And the cop out of "may contain" is crap, it either has it or not, otherwise soon every product will have 'may contain---all known and unknown allergens' (the unknown unknown allergens are the ones I'm declaring war against) and we'll be nowhere. If the ingredient list is bigger than the package, make it in a bigger size or stop putting all the additives in the stuff. Joe, watch how you swing that tar brush buddy, and think about whether your comment fits in the school of "Call names instead of making a convincing arguement" that Mr Limbaugh is so fond of. Anybody who thinks I'm a neocon either has no clue what those freaks stand for, or they don't know me very well. I'm one of those lonely centrists in this increasingly polarised world. Mr. Sapsis, that's a red herring if I ever saw one, screws are a one use item, they stretch and lose their lubricant, the threads dull, and the heads become stripped, when you pull it out of the scenery, toss it. Now, we could all try to figure out what the point of having carriage bolts would be since hex or flat heads are better at any given application. Dave did you catch PJ O'Rourke on Fresh Air (NPR) last week, very funny interview. Thanks for the Linoleum help. I don't mind an accessible grid, if there's something that could be done from a wheelchair once he gets up there, and the paving or whatever doesn't make the use of spotlines impossible. I've certainly thought that an elevator would make the trip up there a lot more fun, especially with a coil of rope or cable on your shoulder. You could have a person not in a wheel chair, like my cousin with MS, who could work on a grid, but would not want to climb a tube ladder or long helical staircase. Stuart ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <9.2bc62b5a.2dfe51b7 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:56:23 EDT Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... In a message dated 6/13/4 7:46:10 PM, sdwheaton [at] fuse.net wrote: <> Sigh... I keep saying it, but it seems no one is listening... It's there to limit liability in case of lawsuits. Period. Package of peanuts that says "may contain peanuts" had better be filled with them when I open it. But once I eat them the peanuts aren't there. The package labeling needs to be accurate in either state, so the "may contain" phrase is used. Change the law and we can start getting back to "common sense" ruling actions rather than "fear of getting sued". I DO have a listing of every ingredient in my products. :) And if I'm not 100% certain of an interaction (the wheat/gluten example is a good one!) I have a PhD chemist whom I can call who is. Kristi http://www.marykay.com/kross-clausen ------------------------------ Message-ID: <40CCFBB3.1050008 [at] fuse.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 21:13:23 -0400 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... References: In-Reply-To: MissWisc [at] aol.com wrote: > Change the law and we can start getting back to "common sense" ruling actions > rather than "fear of getting sued". Stuart's suggestion for Tort reform the easy way... The next time you hear somebody brag about how they got out of jury duty, punch them in the teeth. ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: <9a.cf1e3e4.2dfe569c [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 21:17:16 EDT Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... In a message dated 6/13/04 8:46:10 PM, sdwheaton [at] fuse.net writes: << Mr. Sapsis, that's a red herring if I ever saw one, screws are a one use item, they stretch and lose their lubricant, the threads dull, and the heads become stripped, when you pull it out of the scenery, toss it. Now, we could all try to figure out what the point of having carriage bolts would be since hex or flat heads are better at any given application. >> How quickly we forget. I was referring to a thread started by one Kathy Stevens about a thousand years ago that went on and on, ad nauseum. I was NOT looking for to start it up again. I was looking to interject some humor. Sigh. Bill S. (Mr. Sapsis???? Since when did I get so old that you use Mr. on me??? Geez Louise) Sapsis Rigging, Inc. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile We stand behind, our work. and under, ------------------------------ Message-ID: <0a3301c451b0$19ed42d0$0600a8c0 [at] alf> From: "Alf Sauve" References:

Subject: Re: Carriage Bolts (was...Peanuts)(I like them boiled) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 21:33:13 -0400 Hex head bolts are not better for every given application. There are many applications in which one side is blind and not readily accessible. Or very low clearance is needed. In those cases a carriage bolt with the appropriate square hole is the better. Alf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Wheaton" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 20:44 PM Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... >. Now, we could all try > to figure out what the point of having carriage bolts would > be since hex or flat heads are better at any given application. > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000901c451b6$80097e20$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References:

Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 03:22:53 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Cunningham" > > From: "Steeve Vajk" <> > As someone with a (not so) unusual food allergy > to > > > wheat/flour/barley/etc, I have never expected others to limit > > > themselves for my sake. However, I fully expect anyone who offers food > > > to anyone not in their family, commercially or privately, to know what > > > it's made out of. If you can't tell me what's in it, you should have no > > > right to sell it. You wouldn't BELIEVE how much stuff has wheat > > > products in it. > > > steeve_vajk [at] yahoo.com > > > > > > > Steve, I have to say that sounds a little selfish of you, with the > greatest > > possible respect. > > Can you REALLY expect everyone else to be able to know exactly what's in > > everything they might offer you or sell you, on the basis that it 'might' > do > > you some harm? > > Surely, as a responsible adult, that responsibility falls squarely with > > yourself? > > You surely should make it clear to anyone that doesn't know you personally > > that certain things may harm you, and ask whether their > > products/meals/whatever have any chance of containing such? > > Yes but its then down to the supplier to give the information and if its > commercial then, as Steeve said, they bloody well should know whats in > their products. > Steeve can't be expected to know *their* products - his action as a > "responible adult" is to find out the information he needs and then act upon > it (or act upon the lack of information) > Again, with respect, part of Steve's post said "However, I fully expect anyone who offers food to anyone not in their family, commercially or privately, to know what it's made out of. " I point in particular at the bit that says 'or privately'.... Unless he made it clear to his host (at say a dinner party) how are they to know what to avoid? > > > I know it isn't your fault you have the allergy problem, but it certainly > is > > no-one else's, but no-one can be expected to be a mind-reader, nor can > they, > > as producers or vendors etc, be expected to stop using some ingredients > > because of what amounts to a small percentage of their customers?. Yes, I > > agree hat packaging can and should be explicit, but there'll come a day > when > > the ingredients list is larger than the description of the item! > > I don't think Steeve is looking for anything other than the information that > he needs to make informed descisions And I wouldn't disagree with that. And as far as I know, most producers will and do label stuff ok - but there will always be mistakes, omissions (most likely unintentional) or errors. If I myself were a sufferer, I think I'd be careful, certainly, but wouldn't necessarily make the assumption that anything was clear or otherwise of my allergenics, I'd make it my busines =s to check or find out. Is that not reasonable? Ynot ------------------------------ Message-ID: <004701c451bf$0da161a0$0eedbed0 [at] hppav> From: "Joe Meils" References:

Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 22:24:07 -0500 Which is great, if you think the world can be divided up according to bumper sticker slogans. Joe > What was the old saying? "Anyone who isn't a Liberal at age 18 has no > heart, and anyone who hasn't turned Conservative by age 30 has no > brain", or something like that? ------------------------------ From: "Michael Eddy" Subject: ETC Goes Silent Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:24:21 -0400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I realize that it's not about nut allergies or Braille, but ETC just announced that it acquired IES BV, the Dutch company that makes very = nice silent dimmers. This will give them a leg up on Strand, who has been developing its own silent, sine wave dimming. Here is the link to the story on the L&SA web site: Michael S. Eddy Lighting&Sound America =A0 michael [at] plasa.org www.lightingandsoundamerica.com ------------------------------ From: "Michael Eddy" Subject: ETC goes Silent Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:26:23 -0400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, I hit send too soon. Here is the link to the story. ETC just announced that it acquired IES BV, the Dutch company that makes very nice silent dimmers. This will give them a leg up on Strand, who = has been developing its own silent, sine wave dimming. Here is the link to the story on the L&SA web site: http://www.lightingandsoundamerica.com/news/story.asp?ID=3DHZA3OE Michael S. Eddy Lighting&Sound America =A0 michael [at] plasa.org www.lightingandsoundamerica.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20040613214202.016d8850 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 21:42:02 From: CB Subject: Re: Stagehand bar type question... >Sorry, Dave, but that's just notched you down a couple of rungs I'm afraid, >mate!! > >(REAL men drink beer! (And in the UK, bitter, not that lush lager-beer >stuff!!!!!) Ah, Tony, ya just fell a notch yerself. Sorry, mate, but in the US, men drink what they like, not what some knuckle-dragger supposing himself a real man says he should drink, only stupid birds drink that. And there are some lagers that'd knock yer knickers off just across the wash. (Just kidding about the knuckle-dragger crack, BTW.) ; > Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: Re: fire extinguishers (was Nightingales) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:26:46 -0700 Message-ID: <003301c451d8$91ba54b0$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: There is a whole section on fire extinguishes in my new book. Doomster ==================================================== THE FIRST NATIONAL CONGRESS ON HEALTH AND SAFETY FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS IN THE SECONDARY SCHOOLS - Sponsored by ISETSA June 25, 26, 27, 2004 at Cardinal Stritch University, Milwaukee, Wisconsin ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of John Gibilisco Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 10:54 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: fire extinguishers (was Nightingales) For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- > Steve V wrote: > Since we have a wide range of readers on this list, perhaps it would be good > to clarify that the *job* of a CO2 extinguisher (and any other type of fire > extinguisher) is to be ready at all times to extinguish fires. > > Practice safety. WithExtinguishers and peanut butter. ;-) Thanks Steve and to the list in general. I'll be compiling these posts for our Staff. John Gibilisco Omaha Playhouse ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002301c451df$e84724f0$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Stagehand bar type question... Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:19:18 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: "CB" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 9:42 PM Subject: Re: Stagehand bar type question... > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > >Sorry, Dave, but that's just notched you down a couple of rungs I'm afraid, > >mate!! > > > >(REAL men drink beer! (And in the UK, bitter, not that lush lager-beer > >stuff!!!!!) > > Ah, Tony, ya just fell a notch yerself. Sorry, mate, but in the US, men > drink what they like, not what some knuckle-dragger supposing himself a > real man says he should drink, only stupid birds drink that. And there are > some lagers that'd knock yer knickers off just across the wash. > (Just kidding about the knuckle-dragger crack, BTW.) ; > > Chris "Chris" Babbie LOL. Sorta reminds me of a story bout when my good lady & I went to San Francisco (pre-kids) and we were in the hotel bar on the main drag - at home she often drank Cointreau & lemonade - common enough in the UK, but considering what you guys on the left drink as lemonade, the barman thought it rather odd when she asked for one. Anyway, no lemonade at THAT bar, so she thought - "Hey - next best thing...." She asks for Cointreau & Sprite - she was the 'Cointreau & Sprite lady for the rest of the week - called so to EVERYONE in the bar by the highly amused barkeep! 8-))) Ynot ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001801c451e4$436bd430$10ca30d5 [at] missingldbctt1> From: "Julie Fox" References:

Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:50:28 +0100 This must be a wind-up - there can surely be no question that it is the responsibility of those offering food items for sale to the public to ensure that all ingredients are listed. Yes we do all have responsibility for ourselves - but there must also be collective responsibility - the denial of this is what causes the degeneration of society. Jude ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Deeming" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 11:50 PM Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steeve Vajk" > To: "Stagecraft" > Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 11:37 PM > Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... > > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > As someone with a (not so) unusual food allergy to > > wheat/flour/barley/etc, I have never expected others to limit > > themselves for my sake. However, I fully expect anyone who offers food > > to anyone not in their family, commercially or privately, to know what > > it's made out of. If you can't tell me what's in it, you should have no > > right to sell it. You wouldn't BELIEVE how much stuff has wheat > > products in it. > > > > > steeve_vajk [at] yahoo.com > > > > Steve, I have to say that sounds a little selfish of you, with the greatest > possible respect. > Can you REALLY expect everyone else to be able to know exactly what's in > everything they might offer you or sell you, on the basis that it 'might' do > you some harm? > Surely, as a responsible adult, that responsibility falls squarely with > yourself? > You surely should make it clear to anyone that doesn't know you personally > that certain things may harm you, and ask whether their > products/meals/whatever have any chance of containing such? > > I know it isn't your fault you have the allergy problem, but it certainly is > no-one else's, but no-one can be expected to be a mind-reader, nor can they, > as producers or vendors etc, be expected to stop using some ingredients > because of what amounts to a small percentage of their customers?. Yes, I > agree hat packaging can and should be explicit, but there'll come a day when > the ingredients list is larger than the description of the item! > > Ynot > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003401c451e6$1e1fe070$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References:

Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 09:03:46 +0100 Certainly not a wind up, but I'd refer again to that portion of Steve's post which mentions "anyone who offers food to anyone not in their family, commercially or privately". I merely suggest that there's a limit to what can feasibly be published on food packets etc, and it really does behove the sufferer to make sure that anyone they may come into contact with is aware of their allergies, or that they check the packages/details themselves - no-one will know better than the sufferer what exactly will set off a reaction. Here's an example - if ONE person in a million suffered from a reaction to, say, salt, then that person needs to make sure they make others aware of that fact. Salt is probably used in a VERY high percentage of food prep, even some sweet stuff, and is likely included on all those ingredient lists. But because of that ONE in a million chance that this guy may walk in to their restaurant, does the restaurateur have to label everything with 'may contain salt'? Or 'may contain herbs' for that one in five million allergic to parsley? I'm not trying to be funny, here, but my point is that the responsibility of awareness of any particular case in any particular situation must lie with the sufferer, or (in the case of a child) their parent/guardian. I'd say that most suppliers and food providers will be happy to try to accommodate as a) they want the custom and b) they DON'T want the law suits! If it ain't possible to accommodate, then the allergic person has no option but to go elsewhere. Ynot (Not happy about being painted into a corner, here......) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Fox" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 8:50 AM Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > This must be a wind-up - there can surely be no question that it is the > responsibility of those offering food items for sale to the public to ensure > that all ingredients are listed. Yes we do all have responsibility for > ourselves - but there must also be collective responsibility - the denial of > this is what causes the degeneration of society. > > Jude > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Deeming" > To: "Stagecraft" > Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 11:50 PM > Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... > > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steeve Vajk" > > To: "Stagecraft" > > Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 11:37 PM > > Subject: Re: Peanuts, etc.... > > > > > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > As someone with a (not so) unusual food allergy to > > > wheat/flour/barley/etc, I have never expected others to limit > > > themselves for my sake. However, I fully expect anyone who offers food > > > to anyone not in their family, commercially or privately, to know what > > > it's made out of. If you can't tell me what's in it, you should have no > > > right to sell it. You wouldn't BELIEVE how much stuff has wheat > > > products in it. > > > > > > > > > steeve_vajk [at] yahoo.com > > > > > > > Steve, I have to say that sounds a little selfish of you, with the > greatest > > possible respect. > > Can you REALLY expect everyone else to be able to know exactly what's in > > everything they might offer you or sell you, on the basis that it 'might' > do > > you some harm? > > Surely, as a responsible adult, that responsibility falls squarely with > > yourself? > > You surely should make it clear to anyone that doesn't know you personally > > that certain things may harm you, and ask whether their > > products/meals/whatever have any chance of containing such? > > > > I know it isn't your fault you have the allergy problem, but it certainly > is > > no-one else's, but no-one can be expected to be a mind-reader, nor can > they, > > as producers or vendors etc, be expected to stop using some ingredients > > because of what amounts to a small percentage of their customers?. Yes, I > > agree hat packaging can and should be explicit, but there'll come a day > when > > the ingredients list is larger than the description of the item! > > > > Ynot > > > > > > ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #40 ****************************